Yay or nay.

nay

Oh, I think we have to vote yea, as much as it disagrees with us. That is the only way to get it under control. We have to start over. I hate the thought, but how else are we going to do it. The Florida economy would colapse if the illegals went home.

nay

With much respect I need to reply: Sorry, Mr. Talk Host, but if you lived in Arizona as I do you would soon change your tune. We have been mislead by politicians and the media into believing that our economy almost depends on illegals. The other side of the equation is astonishing. Crime, social services, prison expenses, all kinds of medical expenses far outweigh the benefits of lower paid labor. Does EVERY illegal immigrant commit crimes? Of course not but when the promise from coyotes about jobs turns out to be false some of these "victims" respond in ways that are not favorable to themselves or to others. The coyotes are making big money packing these poor folk into trucks and dropping them off in all parts of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California. In fact, you have no idea how many of these desperate people were dropped off in the desert of AZ and told to fend for themselves. We all know how that usually ends! I think that most Americans favor increasing immigration quotas but for those who play by the rules. Illegality is never something we should turn a blind eye from....even if we think there is some kind of financial benefit to us. But this is a free country and we're not punished for our opinions. Hope I'm a Villager before too long.

• If we refused to grant what people are calling "amnesty", who would actually round up the illegals and send them home? No one...so what would we have gained?

[br]

• Who would do the jobs that the illegals are doing now? So long as people can make a good "living" on welfare, why would they take those tough jobs like picking fruit and vegetables, washing dishes, bussing tables, lugging constructions materials, etc.?

For me, what we should do is lock down our borders to stop or substantially slow the flow of incoming illegals, place some meaningful penalties against those employers who are caught employing illegals and stop paying for the health care and education for those illegally here. Then let the passage of time take care of the absorption of those illegals already here. Some will go home; some will become citizens; some will get caught and sent home; but in the meantime they'll keep working at those jobs that Americans on welfare won't do. The impact on the economy of the reduction in the labor force of illegals can be accomodated better over a period of time.

Nay !
Here are some facts detailing how much the illegals are costing law abiding taxpayers.


1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year. http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English - so the school systems have to hire additional employees to translate! http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...01/ldt.01.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...01/ldt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...01/ldt.01.html

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the United States. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...12/ldt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine and marijuana, crossed into the U. S. from the Southern border.
Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, "estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period." http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.o...eportation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin. http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

14. "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States ".
http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml


So using the LOWEST estimates, the annual cost OF ILLEGAL ALIENS is $338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR!

Here's some reality from a person who lives in California (born and raised here). Entire sections of our city are completely overrun, so dirty and crime ridden it's a disgrace. The local police here call our swap meets "The den of thieves." Our emergency rooms, schools and prisons are over crowed with illegal's who don't pay a dime for services or taxes. That's why if you are a U.S. citizen with a job, it will cost you two grand to get your temperature checked in the local hospital emergency room.

Do you all remember a while back when the protests were going on in LA and other areas? Streets were flooded by the thousands waving Mexican flags and signs demanding amnesty. Saw one fine gentleman on the local news who said "We can't take California back by force, so we're breed ourselves in." In the same news story they showed a billboard in LA advertising a Hispanic radio station which contained the text Los Angles, California. The word California was crossed out in red and replaced with Mexico underneath. It wasn't done by vandals, that's how the billboard was designed. Needless to say the billboard didn't last long.

The borders need to be sealed tight and whoever is here illegally needs to be deported no matter where they came from. One by one if necessary. If the government were to give amnesty to these 20 million illegal's, you'd see a new flood over the border the likes of which we've never seen. It makes my blood boil when I see our government so willing to give up our sovereignty to other countries, especially law breakers. I'm totally in favor of immigration for all who wish to come here...LEGALLY.

I also don't buy the argument they do the work American's won't. While to a small degree it may be true, the first time I was in TN I was amazed at who was doing the actual work American's won't. I'm talking about landscaping, construction, restaurants, hotels, maids, gas stations, cab drivers, convenience stores, etc, etc, etc. It wasn't illegal's, it was Americans. If they want to work here, send them back over the boarder, issue temporary work permits and then let them come back in for seasonal work. No social benefits and if you get caught committing a crime you are permanently deported.

Ok, I'll climb down off my soap box now. Hopefully I won't twist my ankle on the way down and require a trip to the hospital. It's at least a 5 hour wait.

True quick story with a twist. I was waiting on line with my son at the DMV in Cherokee County, GA a couple of years ago....getting a motorcycle license. Rural county, long line, outdoor waiting area, hot Georgia sun...you get the idea. Struck-up a conversation with a young soldier in uniform waiting in line....sergeant...hard stripes...CIB....you vets out there know what that means. Turns-out he just got back from Iraq. I always take the opportunity to talk to these guys.....if you want to get the real skinny on what's happening there....talk to someone who had a bullet or two say hello to the air just over their cover. Also, turns-out he was there at the DMV to translate the driver written test for his mom. Translate? He was a Ukrainian national, a LEGAL alien just finishing his first hitch in the U.S. Army. He also served as a soldier in the Soviet army (can you believe it!!). Because I'm of Ukrainian decent, this conversation was verrry interesting. He had no detectable accent.....even had a little Georgia drawl. It IS legal for legal aliens with resident status to serve.....and to EARN their citizenship. This guy was not a citizen yet....but he was about to be and he was immensely proud. He was in my opinion...an American....earned it through hard work, loyalty, sweat and also some blood as it so happens. As a vet, I bonded with this fine young man over the hour or two while we baked in the Georgia sun......and I don't pity the next insurgent that comes into his crosshairs....and they will....and if they run, they'll just die tired. But that said, now the twist:

The U.S. Army is pushing hard for the "Immigration Reform Bill" (read amnesty) to pass in order to recruit LEGAL ALIENS into the ranks. If that happens, the ranks will filled with these now illegal aliens, and they will now be armed. I have mixed feelings about this. Food for thought. And thanks y'all for the previous write-ups on the topic.... I love the forum to be lively.

No

I don't buy the "jobs americans won't do" line. Eight years ago, we built a home in Atlanta. The illegals (assumption due to no english speakers) did the roofing, brick work and in some cases concrete. Today, if you were to look at an Atlanta subdivision in progress, everything from the initial grading to completion and I mean everything is done by non english speaking hispanics. The building trades have been taken over by these people at lower wages. If you were to visit the Forsyth County Health Department, you'd find a group of young hispanic mothers with their children (no english speakers) getting free healthcare. Now free dental services are also provided. Doesn't anyone remember amnesty in the 80"s? What did that do other than invite another 20 million or so illegals here. The solution to this is to first shut the border. Then address the illegals already here. I agree with Dklassen. Otherwise, we'll become another 3rd world country.

Wow! Somehow either the numbers don't add up, there are a whole lot more illegal aliens than the 12 million Congress claims, or I don't understand the definition of "skilled jobs".

I know there must be at least 4-5 illegals working in unskilled jobs (fruit picker, lawn mowers, busboys, waiters, office cleaners, hotel maids, construction laborers, etc.) for every one employed in what I think of as skilled labor (finish carpenter, electrician, plumber, tool & die maker, auto service technician, etc.) If that's the case, our Congressmen and Senators are all wet when they refer to "12 million illegal aliens". If my observations are anywhere near correct, and if a prior poster is right in saying that 9,872,838 skilled jobs are taken by illegals...that means there must be about 35-45 million illegals living in the U.S.

It's hard for me to believe there are 35-45 million people who have sneaked in over our borders. On the other hand, I don't have any problem at all with the "all wet" description of our current Congress.

No one.....absolutely no one....knows how many illegals are in this country. If you see any figures presented...by anyone...interest groups, Congress etc.....it's simply a guess. But I can tell you, having seen with my own eyes...while working on a projects in El Paso and Del Rio, TX...hundreds....hundreds...of illegals walking....chit-chatting with each other.....some nodding hello to me....as they crossed the border....no fences to climb there folks....and no Border Patrol in sight. And that was in 1996. Hmmmm, 12MM illegals.....sure...I believe that....in TX, NM and CA alone....you bet. Adding-in the rest of the U.S.....I can't imagine. But, 30MM is certainly believable to me. The borders south and north are sieves and a serious security risk. We got figure out a way to secure the borders that is both practical and cost effective and then figure out what to do with those that are already here.

Newt Gingrich has a solution

www.youtube.com/watch?v=15D3ElV1Jzw

ENJOY

That was great!