H2O softner vs. Whole house filtration system

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Old 09-05-2015, 11:57 AM
Paperboy Paperboy is offline
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Default H2O softner vs. Whole house filtration system

After reading the current thread on water softeners I still have a few questions. My wife gets a rash from the H2O here in the Villages.
What are the difference between a softener & a whole house filtration system? I don't want to buy a fancy $1K-$3K system; I'd like to be in the $500.00-$700.00 range INSTALLED.
We have a summer home with a H2O softener & she HAS NO ISSUES.
Water boss was a recommendation as a softener & Nova as a whole house filtration system.
What's your OPINION?
Lastly, who is a good contractor or company to get the above completed?
Thanking You in Advance for your Input.

Last edited by Paperboy; 09-05-2015 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 09-05-2015, 12:55 PM
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Sears has a combo unit, I think it is priced a little higher then what you are looking for, not familiar with other manufacturers. We paid $600 for installation, but that included a buried French drain for the water softener, you may be able to get by with less.
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Old 09-05-2015, 02:05 PM
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There are two issues with water in The Villages. It is pretty hard and it has a high level of chlorine. Neither of these is dangerous and the water is safe. Hardness will leave scale deposits on fixtures and appliances. Many people also prefer the feel of softwater when taking a shower. You will also use less soap with softwater and glasswear will not be cloudy. A water softener will remove the hardness by doing an ion exchange. The chlorine in the water contributes to the "funky" taste of the water. A carbon filter or a device with redox material will remove the chlorine. You can buy a water softener plus a carbon filter to address both issues. Alternatively, you can buy a "hybrid water softener", which is a water softener with redox material to remove chlorine and will address both issues in a single appliance. These are available at the "big box" stores from manufacturers such as Sears and Water Boss. I believe this is the way to go as you will wind up with nice water.

Full disclosure: I don't sell this stuff but I do have softwater with no chlorine and we really like it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paperboy View Post
After reading the current thread on water softeners I still have a few questions. My wife gets a rash from the H2O here in the Villages.
What are the difference between a softener & a whole house filtration system? I don't want to buy a fancy $1K-$3K system; I'd like to be in the $500.00-$700.00 range INSTALLED.
Water boss was a recommended as a softener & Nova as a whole house filtration system.
What's your OPINION?
Lastly, who is a good contractor or company to get the above completed?
Thanking You in Advance for your Input.
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Old 09-05-2015, 02:19 PM
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These are also referred to as "hybrid water softeners" and are becoming very popular as you can remove hardness and chlorine is a single appliance. Good choice.

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Originally Posted by villagetinker View Post
Sears has a combo unit, I think it is priced a little higher then what you are looking for, not familiar with other manufacturers. We paid $600 for installation, but that included a buried French drain for the water softener, you may be able to get by with less.
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Old 09-06-2015, 06:51 AM
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I really like what Nova filtration did for my water.
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Old 09-06-2015, 08:46 AM
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We are very happy with out Nova house filtration system. It does exactly what it says it will do. We do not like salt in our water and we are not going to pay thousands of dollars for water treatment.
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Old 09-06-2015, 08:51 AM
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We purchased and love Pelican Water Systems........Filtration &/or Softener....your choice.
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Old 09-06-2015, 09:44 AM
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I had an older Sears water softener system in my house when I bought it and the resin tank ruptured. The resin clogged all my faucets and partially filled the hot water heater. I had to replace everything, so I opted for a full house water filter system. I'd suggest visiting and talking to people at Kiley & Sons 352-753-9500 for information on best system.
I've been using Kiley for 3 years and trust them, but have no affiliation with this company.
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Old 09-06-2015, 10:19 AM
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That is an old wives tale about putting salt in the water. If sodium chloride is used as a regeneration agent then a small amount of sodium (Na) is added to the water, not salt (NaCl); about the amount of sodium in a slide of bread per 8 oz glass of water. The chloride is stripped off. If this negligible amount of sodium still bothers you then use potassium chloride as the regeneration agent. You can get a water softener for about $450 from a "big box" store. While you can certainly pay thousands of dollars if you feel so inclined, you don't need to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNLAKEPANDA View Post
We are very happy with out Nova house filtration system. It does exactly what it says it will do. We do not like salt in our water and we are not going to pay thousands of dollars for water treatment.

Last edited by biker1; 09-06-2015 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 09-06-2015, 05:34 PM
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Default Hot water heaters & water sofeners

Soft water, such as has been produced by a water softening system,
tank lifetimes can be reduced by 50 percent or more (Weingarten and Weingarten 1992).

For example, the A.O. Smith water heater manual acknowledges “artificially softened water is exceedingly corrosive because the process substitutes sodium ions for magnesium and calcium ions.
The use of water softener may decrease life of water heater tank
.”

An assessment of homeowners’ insurance claims resulting from water heater failures conducted by the Insurance Institute for Business & Home Safety (IBHS ) found that water heater failures are one of the top five “water loss” claims, or claims in which monetary compensation is sought as a result of
water damage to furniture, equipment, or the home itself.
Of the 700 water-heater-related water loss claims analyzed, 69 percent were due to leaks in the water heater or to the tank bursting.
The water heater failures cost an average of $4,444 per incident after the deductible was paid

The Battelle study found that for electric storage water heaters, regular flushing to prevent sediment buildup maintains efficiency for the lifetime of the equipment. For gas storage water heaters, cleaning the tank of sediment buildup was not found to restore full efficiency since the burner surface at
the bottom of the tank cannot be completely cleaned.

although Biker1 says he has hard water (12), the water company says it not very hard at all (a 9 on scale of 1-15).

NOTE! if a water softener is not properly adjusted and maintained you may find that higher levels of salt are being placed into your homes water supply.

Here is what Sears says about the effects of salt in drinking water in buildings where a water softener is installed:

Sodium information: Water softeners using sodium chloride for regeneration add sodium to the water. Persons who are on sodium restricted diets should consider the added sodium as part of their overall sodium intake. For example, you would have to drink 3 quarts of softened water to consume 335 milligrams (mg) of sodium. That's equivalent to eating 2 1/2 slices of white bread.


Keep in mind that a water softener is not a water filter. If your water supply is contaminated with bacteria, chemicals, or sediment, the water softener is not designed to remove those substances.

Like a Nova filter
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Old 09-06-2015, 05:45 PM
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I measured it at my house at 12-13 grains per gallon. This is considered very hard by the USGS standards. Hardwater has a serious impact on appliances. I believe my numbers from a high quality titration test (via my sister with a PhD in Chemistry) more than some third hand numbers. Your strawman arguments are really inconsequential. I am not sure what your motivation is to try to discredit water softeners. Many people prefer softwater. BTW, the scale on hardwater is not limitied to 1-15, it can be higher than that. Softwater has 0 grains per gallon. I assume you have mistake hardness for pH. They are not the same thing ;-) LOL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo2012 View Post
Soft water, such as has been produced by a water softening system,
tank lifetimes can be reduced by 50 percent or more (Weingarten and Weingarten 1992).

For example, the A.O. Smith water heater manual acknowledges “artificially softened water is exceedingly corrosive because the process substitutes sodium ions for magnesium and calcium ions.
The use of water softener may decrease life of water heater tank
.”

An assessment of homeowners’ insurance claims resulting from water heater failures conducted by the Insurance Institute for Business & Home Safety (IBHS ) found that water heater failures are one of the top five “water loss” claims, or claims in which monetary compensation is sought as a result of
water damage to furniture, equipment, or the home itself.
Of the 700 water-heater-related water loss claims analyzed, 69 percent were due to leaks in the water heater or to the tank bursting.
The water heater failures cost an average of $4,444 per incident after the deductible was paid

The Battelle study found that for electric storage water heaters, regular flushing to prevent sediment buildup maintains efficiency for the lifetime of the equipment. For gas storage water heaters, cleaning the tank of sediment buildup was not found to restore full efficiency since the burner surface at
the bottom of the tank cannot be completely cleaned.

although Biker1 says he has hard water (12), the water company says it not very hard at all (a 9 on scale of 1-15).
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Old 09-06-2015, 05:57 PM
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Well maybe you should measure it again? I think your results maybe incorrect.

How did you measure it?

Not trying to discredit softeners, they have their place, just not in TV the water is not that hard to require one.

Now I suppose if you want one add the Nova to it.
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Old 09-06-2015, 06:07 PM
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Nope, my results are fine. 12-13 grains per gallon via a high quality titration test. I already stated that - please reread the post. Your results may vary. We have very hard water according to the USGS. As I already stated, many people prefer softwater. There is no requirement for a water softener, just as there is no requirement for a carbon-block filter or redox material to remove chlorine. These are optional equipment. Anyone who states the water is unsafe should be shown the door. I would never presume to tell people what they like or need.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo2012 View Post
Well maybe you should measure it again? I think your results maybe incorrect.

How did you measure it?

Not trying to discredit softeners, they have their place, just not in TV the water is not that hard to require one.

Now I suppose if you want one add the Nova to it.
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Old 12-01-2015, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo2012 View Post
Well maybe you should measure it again? I think your results maybe incorrect.

How did you measure it?

Not trying to discredit softeners, they have their place, just not in TV the water is not that hard to require one.

Now I suppose if you want one add the Nova to it.
I hear what your saying, but I've been having skin rashes since I moved here and my wife has been getting very bad rashes and is having her hair fall out. Her doctor says it's from the hard water and recommends we get a water softener.

Most people I talk to say that the water in TV is very hard. Why do you say it's not? Have you measure the water hardness in your house? Do you have any numbers?
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Old 12-01-2015, 03:34 PM
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Jim, water hardness generally uses a a range of 1-15, 12+ is very hard and where softeners are frequently used.

Here according to our utility it is 8.6 -9., that's not really considered hard.

I think you should be concerned with the contaminants or pollutants in our water that causes problems such as you describe.

The CDC stated there is no negative effect from hard water and they are referring to the 12+ type.

Remember that water softeners don't remove the contaminants or pollutants to the degree the Nova triple does.

If your not convinced you can get the Triple and softener for $1250, but try the Triple first for $495, I never had anyone ask to add a softener after over 300 installs.


Call me to discuss further if you like.
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