15 year old girl talks to UN on climate issues

Closed Thread
Thread Tools
  #16  
Old 12-15-2018, 03:49 PM
eweissenbach's Avatar
eweissenbach eweissenbach is offline
Sage
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Smithville (Kansas City) Mo./ LaBelle North
Posts: 4,566
Thanks: 112
Thanked 726 Times in 225 Posts
Send a message via AIM to eweissenbach
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl View Post
Ed. Forest Fires and Volcano's and animals and humans belch contamination too. As I say. It isn't as political as some assume. World hunger has been cut in half since 1990 because of industrialization. Please check that fact. It isn't simple. Nothing ever is and sometimes there are no answers for difficult issues. .
I think I understand the real, and the political issues better than most. What are the ramifications for continuing to push the status quo, and who benefits? If you answer the question of who benefits, and you follow the money, you will know who also buys the politicians and the "oppo-research.
__________________
Oldcoach Ed
"You cannot direct the wind, but you can adjust the sails" "Be yourself - everyone else is taken"
  #17  
Old 12-15-2018, 04:01 PM
manaboutown manaboutown is offline
Sage
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NJ, NM, SC, PA, DC, MD, VA, NY, CA, ID and finally FL.
Posts: 7,377
Thanks: 12,795
Thanked 4,572 Times in 1,748 Posts
Default

The climate of the earth has been changing since the very beginnings of the earth. It was obviously different during the times of the dinosaurs and during ice ages. Climate change did not start with humankind's evolution into fossil fuel burning industrial societies.

What can human beings do about climate change which is actually driven by volcanic eruptions and other natural events, sun spot and other solar activity and changes, our moon's orbit's ever increasing radius, earth's own orbital variations, axial precession and other natural occurrences?

IMHO pollution in general, especially by countries such as China, India and Russia, all the plastic thrown into the sea, overpopulation and such need to be addressed but as to whether or not our activities initiate climate change to even a measurable degree is not remotely understood much lessen proven.

What is clear is that proponents of humankind being responsible for and having the ability to reduce climate change are in one way or another profiting by selling the concept to the public. Both avarice and power over others are their driving forces.

To actually believe humankind can control the earth's climate is simultaneously both incredibly naive and ludicrously arrogant.
__________________
"No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth." Plato

“To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.” Thomas Paine

Last edited by manaboutown; 12-16-2018 at 12:48 AM.
  #18  
Old 12-15-2018, 04:19 PM
tuccillo tuccillo is offline
Soaring Eagle member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,101
Thanks: 4
Thanked 411 Times in 218 Posts
Default

Your analogy is not a good one. When we don’t know the extent of the problem, or even if there is a problem, it is impossible to know what to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 View Post
Most real science has a lot of unknowns especially something as complicated as the weather and long term patterns in it. But what is very obvious is that something needs to be done no matter the extent of scientist's knowledge of what the "cycles" or whatever are really like.

If your house is getting too uncomfortable for you then you turn down the thermostat or turn it up or open some windows or actually do something to fix it. Or try to change the conditions.

An interesting link-- Climate Change
  #19  
Old 12-15-2018, 05:03 PM
eweissenbach's Avatar
eweissenbach eweissenbach is offline
Sage
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Smithville (Kansas City) Mo./ LaBelle North
Posts: 4,566
Thanks: 112
Thanked 726 Times in 225 Posts
Send a message via AIM to eweissenbach
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuccillo View Post
Your analogy is not a good one. When we don’t know the extent of the problem, or even if there is a problem, it is impossible to know what to do.
It is true we don't know the extent of the problem. It seems like every credible report that comes out shows it to be worse than earlier thought. This reminds me of the cigarette companies arguing many years ago that smoking and cancer were not linked. They also bought a few politicians and "scientists" to support their argument but didn't have the money that the petroleum and coal industry and companies like Koch Industries to buy enough to really influence many people or buy enough politicians.
__________________
Oldcoach Ed
"You cannot direct the wind, but you can adjust the sails" "Be yourself - everyone else is taken"
  #20  
Old 12-15-2018, 05:10 PM
manaboutown manaboutown is offline
Sage
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NJ, NM, SC, PA, DC, MD, VA, NY, CA, ID and finally FL.
Posts: 7,377
Thanks: 12,795
Thanked 4,572 Times in 1,748 Posts
Default

The solar panel industry, Tesla, wind farm companies and the like have plenty of politicians in their pockets.
__________________
"No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth." Plato

“To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.” Thomas Paine
  #21  
Old 12-15-2018, 05:10 PM
rjm1cc's Avatar
rjm1cc rjm1cc is offline
Soaring Eagle member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,366
Thanks: 237
Thanked 521 Times in 241 Posts
Default

With or without climate change (is this good or bad since the earth originated?) you should not build a home in a flood plane and expect that it will not be damaged by a flood. So to start lets use local zoning to help reduce the problems we currently have.
  #22  
Old 12-15-2018, 05:19 PM
tuccillo tuccillo is offline
Soaring Eagle member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,101
Thanks: 4
Thanked 411 Times in 218 Posts
Default

This is another poor analogy. If you don't believe there are funded investigators who toe "the anthropogenic global warming" line then you are naive. There have been various dire prognostications that were put forth that haven't panned out. Without domain expertise, it is impossible to judge the actual credibility of various reports. It is like me trying to judge the credibility of a clinical trial for a new drug. I simply don't have the expertise to understand the issues of a drug trial.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eweissenbach View Post
It is true we don't know the extent of the problem. It seems like every credible report that comes out shows it to be worse than earlier thought. This reminds me of the cigarette companies arguing many years ago that smoking and cancer were not linked. They also bought a few politicians and "scientists" to support their argument but didn't have the money that the petroleum and coal industry and companies like Koch Industries to buy enough to really influence many people or buy enough politicians.

Last edited by tuccillo; 12-18-2018 at 10:24 AM.
  #23  
Old 12-15-2018, 05:32 PM
eweissenbach's Avatar
eweissenbach eweissenbach is offline
Sage
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Smithville (Kansas City) Mo./ LaBelle North
Posts: 4,566
Thanks: 112
Thanked 726 Times in 225 Posts
Send a message via AIM to eweissenbach
Default

How Big Money in Politics Blocked U.S. Action on Climate Change - Yale E360
__________________
Oldcoach Ed
"You cannot direct the wind, but you can adjust the sails" "Be yourself - everyone else is taken"
  #24  
Old 12-15-2018, 05:35 PM
eweissenbach's Avatar
eweissenbach eweissenbach is offline
Sage
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Smithville (Kansas City) Mo./ LaBelle North
Posts: 4,566
Thanks: 112
Thanked 726 Times in 225 Posts
Send a message via AIM to eweissenbach
Default

How Money Changes Climate Debate - Scientific American
__________________
Oldcoach Ed
"You cannot direct the wind, but you can adjust the sails" "Be yourself - everyone else is taken"
  #25  
Old 12-15-2018, 05:59 PM
graciegirl's Avatar
graciegirl graciegirl is offline
Sage
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 40,004
Thanks: 4,850
Thanked 5,493 Times in 1,903 Posts
Send a message via AIM to graciegirl
Default

Ed, neither of these articles is a compelling reason to spend money on "climate change". We can believe that climate is changing and that indeed it is because of greenhouse gases, but how do you get the world to change and stop industrialization? Especially since industrialization can bring the end to hunger and poverty?

It is way too general to blame the monied big businesses for the ills of the world. Anyone who WASTES money is in a real sense wasting resources.

Both sides have got to stop chewing and swallowing doctrines whole.
__________________
It is better to laugh than to cry.
  #26  
Old 12-15-2018, 06:27 PM
Rapscallion St Croix's Avatar
Rapscallion St Croix Rapscallion St Croix is offline
Platinum member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Former Villager living in Hilton Head, SC
Posts: 1,790
Thanks: 19
Thanked 713 Times in 263 Posts
Default

Well, these guys are doing their part.

New Zealand scientists are breeding sheep to fart and burp less - ABC Rural - ABC News
__________________
Black Sabbath Matters
  #27  
Old 12-15-2018, 06:49 PM
Boomer Boomer is offline
Soaring Parsley
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,222
Thanks: 147
Thanked 2,204 Times in 740 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl View Post
Ed, neither of these articles is a compelling reason to spend money on "climate change". We can believe that climate is changing and that indeed it is because of greenhouse gases, but how do you get the world to change and stop industrialization? Especially since industrialization can bring the end to hunger and poverty?

It is way too general to blame the monied big businesses for the ills of the world. Anyone who WASTES money is in a real sense wasting resources.

Both sides have got to stop chewing and swallowing doctrines whole.

If we do not work toward the middle, we are doomed.

If we do not stop dehumanizing those who are not like us, we are doomed.

If we do not stop the unrestrained greed, we are doomed. (No. I am not what some of you want to call me. I just happen to think that unrestrained greed is bad economics. We have seen it before and we might be headed there again.)

If we do not stop falling for the old "Divide and Conquer" routine, we are doomed.

If we who have everything we need stop seeing the pain of others, we are doomed.

If we do not learn to see through manipulation, we are doomed.

If we never question anything, we are doomed.

If we do not stop excusing the inexcusable, we are doomed.

If we continue to abdicate our ability to think for ourselves and continue to let the screens in our homes tell us what to think, feel, and do, we are doomed.

If we do not notice that there is so much anger and it is being fanned constantly, we are doomed.

If we cannot see hypocrisy, we are doomed.

If we do not stop and look in the mirror and ask ourselves who we really are, we are doomed.

etc.

- - - - - -

Uh-oh. I think I just managed to close this thread.
  #28  
Old 12-15-2018, 06:59 PM
Rapscallion St Croix's Avatar
Rapscallion St Croix Rapscallion St Croix is offline
Platinum member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Former Villager living in Hilton Head, SC
Posts: 1,790
Thanks: 19
Thanked 713 Times in 263 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer View Post
If we do not work toward the middle, we are doomed.

If we do not stop dehumanizing those who are not like us, we are doomed.

If we do not stop the unrestrained greed, we are doomed. (No. I am not what some of you want to call me. I just happen to think that unrestrained greed is bad economics. We have seen it before and we might be headed there again.)

If we do not stop falling for the old "Divide and Conquer" routine, we are doomed.

If we who have everything we need stop seeing the pain of others, we are doomed.

If we do not learn to see through manipulation, we are doomed.

If we never question anything, we are doomed.

If we do not stop excusing the inexcusable, we are doomed.

If we continue to abdicate our ability to think for ourselves and continue to let the screens in our homes tell us what to think, feel, and do, we are doomed.

If we do not notice that there is so much anger and it is being fanned constantly, we are doomed.

If we cannot see hypocrisy, we are doomed.

If we do not stop and look in the mirror and ask ourselves who we really are, we are doomed.

etc.

- - - - - -

Uh-oh. I think I just managed to close this thread.
Hopefully, salvation rests in the ability to recognize unbridled hyperbole.
__________________
Black Sabbath Matters
  #29  
Old 12-15-2018, 07:07 PM
Boomer Boomer is offline
Soaring Parsley
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,222
Thanks: 147
Thanked 2,204 Times in 740 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapscallion St Croix View Post
Hopefully, salvation rests in the ability to recognize unbridled hyperbole.
Aw, c'mon, Rap, I would happily match you any day. Say high noon. LSL. (Of course, I am up north right now.)

Being a moderate and all that entails, I must see you as an individual and acknowledge that even though you can sometimes behave in a cantankerous manner and aim your slings and arrows at me, I really do admire your wicked wit.
  #30  
Old 12-15-2018, 07:18 PM
Rapscallion St Croix's Avatar
Rapscallion St Croix Rapscallion St Croix is offline
Platinum member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Former Villager living in Hilton Head, SC
Posts: 1,790
Thanks: 19
Thanked 713 Times in 263 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer View Post
Aw, c'mon, Rap, I would happily match you any day. Say high noon. LSL. (Of course, I am up north right now.)

Being a moderate and all that entails, I must see you as an individual and acknowledge that even though you can sometimes behave in a cantankerous manner and aim your slings and arrows at me, I really do admire your wicked wit.
I am headed North tomorrow but I never rise before noon, so I must decline. By definition, we are from different generations. Some genius has declared that I was born ten months too early to be a boomer, so I was forced to become one of the youngest curmudgeons.
__________________
Black Sabbath Matters
Closed Thread

Tags
issues, future, bright, climate, year

Thread Tools

You are viewing a new design of the TOTV site. Click here to revert to the old version.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:14 AM.