[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

Holding up 2 days of local weather out of 8 years of global average temperatures as a of trying to add credence to your position is ingenuous and, imo, like a verbal shell game. Chicanery.

sort of like holding out 8 years as a reflection of the last 4 million?????

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Guess what?----The last 8 years is not a TREND of the last 4 million years. That's why I picked that ridiculous analogy in the first place

Admitting to a "ridiculous analogy" about the general topic of Climate Change..........somehow gave me a good laugh. I thought it was ridiculous, but it was creative. Kudos!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Vermilion Villager

Sorry.....BFRO meets at that time. We have free beer!

Yes, nice to see that some people have their priorities straight.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

Showing you any data that does not support your exact assertion would be denied as true and you would brand it propaganda. So it is a waste of time and energy to provide you with anything you don't want to hear.

Many people do NOT want to admit that the Climate Change going on today exists or is man-made. It pulls them out of their comfort zone. I try, but I don't know how to reach them. I think that it is worth trying because it is a factor that is lowering the quality of life for people throughout the planet. Just as one and only one example........when a living coral reef dies there is less beauty available to see in the world and less eco-function.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

Holding up 2 days of local weather out of 8 years of global average temperatures as a of trying to add credence to your position is ingenuous and, imo, like a verbal shell game. Chicanery.

"a verbal shell game" ........well played.......touche!

[mtdjed]

All of the back and forth as to whether there is human caused climate changes or not has been discussed here and changes nothing. What I would prefer to know is whether those who truly believe we cause the weather to change have done anything significant such that you can demonstrate you are doing your part to change the trend. Tell us what great changes you have made to your life that truly makes a difference. Solar panels on your home, EV's charged by energy source such as solar, wind, tide or wind. Biking and walking instead of energy consuming transportation. Avoiding air transport, growing your own food without fertilizers, eating no meat.

Or are you just like the rest of us? Plug into the grid, heat and cool your house, power to keep your pool usable, air transport to your cruise port. Wash and dry your clothes in machines powered by gas or electric. And heaven forbid, us a powered golf cart and have your lawn mowed by gas powered equipment.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by mtdjed

All of the back and forth as to whether there is human caused climate changes or not has been discussed here and changes nothing. What I would prefer to know is whether those who truly believe we cause the weather to change have done anything significant such that you can demonstrate you are doing your part to change the trend. Tell us what great changes you have made to your life that truly makes a difference. Solar panels on your home, EV's charged by energy source such as solar, wind, tide or wind. Biking and walking instead of energy consuming transportation. Avoiding air transport, growing your own food without fertilizers, eating no meat.

Or are you just like the rest of us? Plug into the grid, heat and cool your house, power to keep your pool usable, air transport to your cruise port. Wash and dry your clothes in machines powered by gas or electric. And heaven forbid, us a powered golf cart and have your lawn mowed by gas powered equipment.

Great post! I wouldn't single out anyone on TOTV, but I suspect most of them worldwide follow the example of utilizing gas guzzling private jets and yachts set by their leader, Leonardo DiCaprio, UN global ambassador for climate change

You see, this whole myth and culture of climate change leads to modern convenience for the Hollywierd crowd and bicoastal elites while relegating the rest of us to the 17th century. The classic "do as I say, not as I do"

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

All the decades from 1980. That would be 3 decades. I am not interested enough to write to those 2 experts. I have formed my opinion on Climate Change already. It is based on watching TV and reading articles going all the way back to Al Gore. Just general societal knowledge that I have ABSORBED through the years. .......from things like the reef coral dying. From the fact that animal populations are dropping (and human populations are increasing) From the fact that farmers from South America are traveling north to the US because their crops won't grow. The same northward migration is happening in Europe. From the fires due to excess heat in the US west. From flooding news from Pakistan.
From the fact that factory farms have eliminated the large numbers of pheasants that used to be in Nebraska.

The news is all around us and environmentally it is NOT good. I really don't need any more GRAPHS to tell me what is intuitively obvious TO ME anyway!

Actually that would be four decades: the 1980s, the 1990s, the 2000s, and the 2010s. which would mean, if the research quoted was accurate, that hurricanes in 1980 were 32% less severe than hurricanes in 2020.

I did quite a bit of clicking around this morning to see if I could find evidence to support or refute the theory that there was that much variation in hurricane severity over the years, but the data I could find was all over the map. Interestingly enough the "severity" of hurricanes are measured in one of two ways; wind speed or barometric pressure, and depending on the method the list of "severe" storms can be quite different. Some people attempt to categorize hurricanes according to damage and/or deaths, but that is sophistic. For instance, the deadliest Atlantic hurricane on record was the "Great Hurricane" (Huracán San Calixto) killed over 22,000 people (some estimates of close to 30,000) but that was back in 1780! No data about wind speed of that storm is available, only estimates, though it is believed to have been a category 5. It should be noted as well that Huracán San Calixto struck the Antilles (Hispaniola, St. Kitts, Nevis, several other islands) which were agrarian cultures, growing mainly sugar cane, and as I assume slaves were counted as property, not people, the toll could have been far higher than reported.

Interestingly enough, 1780 is still the deadliest hurricane year on record, though I'll bet the farm that many people believe it was actually 2005 and Katrina.

Another fly in this particular ointment is that the old data records probably only the hurricanes that made landfall, and many don't, so it is quite possible that in years like 1780 there were quite a few more storms than were reported. Today we track every tropical depression using a variety of methods and get hour-by-hour updates, but 200 years ago those methods didn't exist.

Bottom line: we can choose whatever we want to believe and can find statistics to support it. But, as Mark Twain once observed, there are three kinds of untruths, "lies, damned lies, and statistics".

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Many people do NOT want to admit that the Climate Change going on today exists or is man-made. It pulls them out of their comfort zone. I try, but I don't know how to reach them. I think that it is worth trying because it is a factor that is lowering the quality of life for people throughout the planet. Just as one and only one example........when a living coral reef dies there is less beauty available to see in the world and less eco-function.

Perhaps that is because those that scream wolf have not produced evidence of the wolf. And since that will elicit a response that the person that cried wolf eventually met up with a wolf, I will put it this way: YOU have not produced ANY evidence that humans have caused climate change. So, since the climate has changed from good to bad and back to good and then bad again, and since it is a cycle that is never consistent other than the seasons created by the rotation of the Earth around the SUN, no one has given me any REAL evidence that mankind has been powerful enough to change the climate. Like I said before and reiterate, I believe in man caused air pollution to a certain extent. I also believe that nature naturally effects the air pollution too.
I believe that oil is in the Earth for a specific reason, to provide us with fuel for energy. I believe that animals (some) are good to eat and therefore are on earth as a food source. Of course, I believe in creation but I won't start that argument.
AND I believe that the concept of "man caused climate change" is a gigantic joke perpetrated by sophisticated grifters to Con gullible folks out of their money. That's my opinion, which I might add is just as valid as those that believe that man can change the seasons and make the world either warmer or colder.
Question: if man can change the climate, what temperature should we set the climate thermostat at? I like an average of 75 degrees year round with a few 90 days for water skying and diving. Can we concur with that?

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

sort of like holding out 8 years as a reflection of the last 4 million?????

Yeah! Kind like that. If a graph shows only a steep increase it is not as meaningful as extending the graph to show where the steeper incline began. Then, by examining what was happening at the point of increase, the reason(s) for said increase may be determined. In the case of climate change it begins at the beginning of the industrial revolution and population explosion.
Hmm! Do you think it possible that might have something to do with it? 😉

[Davonu]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

…In the case of climate change it begins at the beginning of the industrial revolution and population explosion.
Hmm! Do you think it possible that might have something to do with it? 😉

Yeah, right.

We all know that climate was 100% constant prior to that. Never wavered in the slightest. Every year/decade/century/ millenium was exactly the same as every other.

Give me a break.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Many people do NOT want to admit that the Climate Change going on today exists or is man-made. It pulls them out of their comfort zone. I try, but I don't know how to reach them. I think that it is worth trying because it is a factor that is lowering the quality of life for people throughout the planet. Just as one and only one example........when a living coral reef dies there is less beauty available to see in the world and less eco-function.

I agree with you. Just understand that many people are so deeply dug onto their foxhole that they can never come out. Also, remember that you will not change their minds. They have to accept the truth on their own. Keep the debate friendly and respectful. You can catch more flies with honey, is a wise old adage and applicable in most cases. After all, we are all friends here.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by mtdjed

All of the back and forth as to whether there is human caused climate changes or not has been discussed here and changes nothing. What I would prefer to know is whether those who truly believe we cause the weather to change have done anything significant such that you can demonstrate you are doing your part to change the trend. Tell us what great changes you have made to your life that truly makes a difference. Solar panels on your home, EV's charged by energy source such as solar, wind, tide or wind. Biking and walking instead of energy consuming transportation. Avoiding air transport, growing your own food without fertilizers, eating no meat.

Or are you just like the rest of us? Plug into the grid, heat and cool your house, power to keep your pool usable, air transport to your cruise port. Wash and dry your clothes in machines powered by gas or electric. And heaven forbid, us a powered golf cart and have your lawn mowed by gas powered equipment.

OK, I can respond to that challenge, That is a reasonable question. I eat VERY little red meat. I have an electric lawnmower and bicycle. I avoid air travel and large cruise ships would bore me and waste my money. I drive a small gas car. My next car, if I live long enough, will be an E-car. I plant many hedges and trees in my yard because they produce more oxygen than plain grass and require zero fertilizer. Before the pandemic, we had a summer home in Tn. with 2 acres on which we grew apples, peaches, and vegetables, including corn, and also blackberries. I buy recycled clothes from goodwill and garage sales. I drink soy milk. I would NEVER, NEVER waste money on a private pool when the neighborhood pool is close and has some interesting characters there. I do NOT play GOLF because it is very little exercise and a lot of wasted time - also the plain grass there releases MUCH, MUCH less oxygen than the trees they cut down for a golf course. Also, a golf course has a lot of fertilizer runoff which destabilizes the surrounding lakes and , of course, wastes water. And all the non-electric golf carts are without smog control devices as good as modern automobiles so the pollution factor is high.
.........Thanks for the question and challenge. I hope others take that challenge also.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by Davonu

Yeah, right.

We all know that climate was 100% constant prior to that. Never wavered in the slightest. Every year/decade/century/ millenium was exactly the same as every other.

Give me a break.

No need to be sarcastic. We all know that the earths climate has gone thru a lot of changes since it formed. The current question is, has man-made destruction of habitats and man-made pollution exacerbated/increased the rate of rise of the average global temperature? I say it has. I am guessing you don't agree.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

OK, I can respond to that challenge, That is a reasonable question. I eat VERY little red meat. I have an electric lawnmower and bicycle. I avoid air travel and large cruise ships would bore me and waste my money. I drive a small gas car. My next car, if I live long enough, will be an E-car. I plant many hedges and trees in my yard because they produce more oxygen than plain grass and require zero fertilizer. Before the pandemic, we had a summer home in Tn. with 2 acres on which we grew apples, peaches, and vegetables, including corn, and also blackberries. I buy recycled clothes from goodwill and garage sales. I drink soy milk. I would NEVER, NEVER waste money on a private pool when the neighborhood pool is close and has some interesting characters there. I do NOT play GOLF because it is very little exercise and a lot of wasted time - also the plain grass there releases MUCH, MUCH less oxygen than the trees they cut down for a golf course. Also, a golf course has a lot of fertilizer runoff which destabilizes the surrounding lakes and , of course, wastes water. And all the non-electric golf carts are without smog control devices as good as modern automobiles so the pollution factor is high.
.........Thanks for the question and challenge. I hope others take that challenge also.

Personally, I use as much gasoline as I need. I bought a new gas fueled car this year as it gets as much mileage as a friend's brand new hybrid. But that is not the reason. I just like gasoline fueled vehicles better than EVs right now. Maybe my opinion will change later, if I live long enough. I have an EV golf cart that I never use. I have a motorcycle that I do not use to conserve on fuel, but just for the pure enjoyment of riding, not going anywhere, just riding. I use battery powered tools rather than fossil powered because I do not like the smell of fuel in my garage. I do not fly because I have flown all over the world and it is now, no longer comfortable for me to fly. I have been to many countries with way more pollution than ours. I have spent winters in countries where you could not see the tops of buildings due to the fuel they used to heat their homes. Gotta love the smell of burning manure in the winter.
I am NOT concerned about climate change as I know it has ALWAYS changed and will continue to do so whether or not man intervenes. I care a little bit about air pollution, but the air quality has improved since I was a child, so it is a minor issue or possibly a fleeting thought.
I am more concerned about inflation than I am about the great new green deal. Although, I do care about all the taxpayer money wasted on it. I care about the rising oil price and the rising cost of living (inflation) and hope that someone gets their act together before they ruin too many lives. But, I do not care about the changing climate. I do not worry about hurricanes since the only thing you can do is get out of their way. I've lived through hurricanes, tornadoes and typhoons, as well as many, many earthquakes. When it is my time to go, I know where I will go in my afterlife so I am not even concerned about that.
My only concern for the next generation is whether or not they will enjoy the freedom and liberty my generation has been blessed with.
But, like I said earlier if you all figure out how man can change the climate....please change it for an average temp of 75 degrees with a few 90 degree days for water activity.