[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

This will be debated ad nauseam for years unless someone in authority makes it go away

Also, any individual that does not want to contribute is welcome to contribute to another thread.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Advance hardly looks like an objective site.

Parts of Australia'''s Great Barrier Reef show highest coral cover in 36 years | Reuters

I agree about Advance Australia. A careful reading of the posted link reveals that the LARGER southern region is in big trouble and dying. The other SMALLER sections ARE increasing, but with a type of coral that scientists feel will be very vulnerable to future conditions.
........So this is another environmental situation (like US forest health) that can be interpreted in either a pessimistic manner or an optimistic one. I believe that in 8 or 10 years the total environmental picture and man's deterioration of it will become so apparent that scientists and laymen alike will agree. That picture will come into clear focus!
........and to remind folks of one alarming man-caused environmental problem.......we have the war in the Ukraine - which LIKELY has led Russia to blow 4 holes in the gas pipeline sitting on the sea floor in order to let Europe freeze this winter. These pipeline ruptures are spewing methane gas straight into the upper atmosphere. That would be a good example of man-made Global Warming.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

There are all kinds of data out there.

Coral Reefs and Corals | Smithsonian Ocean

That is the most interesting and informative link that I have ever read on this forum or anywhere. Period. Kudos to the Smithsonian.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Byte1

And underwater volcanoes had nothing to do with it? Sure, man did it. The Great Barrier reef did NOT decrease by 90% in 75 years, so conveniently grouping it with others is in my opinion, to be just as irresponsible as some of these bogus scientists.

All reefs around the world are predicted in the FUTURE 75 years to be down 90%. In other words, reefs WILL be down to only 10%. According to that link on the Smithsonian warm water corals in shallow water have an ENORMOUS effect on all marine life. Basically, I take that to mean that people will not be seeing fish in the Publix supermarkets of the Future.

In the Smithsonian article, it was stated........that the past 200 years ocean water has become 30% more ACIDIC and that is FASTER than any CHANGE in the LAST 50 MILLION YEARS
........I can imagine that the last 200 years of increased ocean acidity relates to man's increased CO2 production which increased dramatically with the invention of the internal combustion engine.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Well........a quick lookup in Wikipedia says that Advance Australia (AA) is a conservative political lobbying group that emphasizes a Judeo-Christian heritage. AA started a campaign around Australian children with an E-book titled,"10 climate facts to expose the climate change HOAX" in an attempt to go against the established SCIENTIFIC view. AA has received a large amount of RIDICULE from the Australian media.

Judging by Wikipedia I would conclude that AA is merely a group with an agenda against SCIENCE - reminiscent of America's old Flat-Earth-Society. So, I will continue to believe the PICTURES of the bleached white and dying coral in the Great Barrier Reef. And the prediction by REAL SCIENTISTS (not AA want-to-be-s) that 90% of all earth's coral reefs will be DEAD in about 75 years!

Are those the same "real" scientists who predicted the polar ice caps would be gone by 2010?????

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

All reefs around the world are predicted in the FUTURE 75 years to be down 90%. In other words, reefs WILL be down to only 10%. According to that link on the Smithsonian warm water corals in shallow water have an ENORMOUS effect on all marine life. Basically, I take that to mean that people will not be seeing fish in the Publix supermarkets of the Future.

In the Smithsonian article, it was stated........that the past 200 years ocean water has become 30% more ACIDIC and that is FASTER than any CHANGE in the LAST 50 MILLION YEARS
........I can imagine that the last 200 years of increased ocean acidity relates to man's increased CO2 production which increased dramatically with the invention of the internal combustion engine.

Really????? They've plotted out the acidity of the oceans for every 200 year span out of the last 50 million????? Quite an accomplishment. You do realize that is 250,000 spans of 200 years-----I'd love to see that data chart. So, no matter who made that statement, it is plainly idiotic

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Are those the same "real" scientists who predicted the polar ice caps would be gone by 2010?????

I believe that we will know the truth in about 8 to 10 years. I can wait. P.S. There is a Cat 4 hurricane in the Pacific heading toward Mexico.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Really????? They've plotted out the acidity of the oceans for every 200 year span out of the last 50 million????? Quite an accomplishment. You do realize that is 250,000 spans of 200 years-----I'd love to see that data chart. So, no matter who made that statement, it is plainly idiotic

Please .....then quickly inform the Smithsonian Institute of their grievous error. Anyway, they're just a bunch of out-of-touch scientists. And at the end of that Smithsonian Institute link, there are pictures of and the educational qualifications of three Smithsonian Ocean scientists with Doctorates that would be glad to have a debate. Maybe tickets could be sold!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Really????? They've plotted out the acidity of the oceans for every 200 year span out of the last 50 million????? Quite an accomplishment. You do realize that is 250,000 spans of 200 years-----I'd love to see that data chart. So, no matter who made that statement, it is plainly idiotic

Actually. I imagine they know the ocean acidity levels back 50 Million years because they did core samples of ancient coral reefs. When reading the Smithsonian article I found out that living coral form rings just like ancient redwood trees do. I assume from that and core samples they can date the rings and come to the conclusion back to 50 Million years. And I enjoyed learning that !

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Actually. I imagine they know the ocean acidity levels back 50 Million years because they did core samples of ancient coral reefs. When reading the Smithsonian article I found out that living coral form rings just like ancient redwood trees do. I assume from that and core samples they can date the rings and come to the conclusion back to 50 Million years. And I enjoyed learning that !

It doesn’t work that way

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

All reefs around the world are predicted in the FUTURE 75 years to be down 90%. In other words, reefs WILL be down to only 10%. According to that link on the Smithsonian warm water corals in shallow water have an ENORMOUS effect on all marine life. Basically, I take that to mean that people will not be seeing fish in the Publix supermarkets of the Future.

In the Smithsonian article, it was stated........that the past 200 years ocean water has become 30% more ACIDIC and that is FASTER than any CHANGE in the LAST 50 MILLION YEARS
........I can imagine that the last 200 years of increased ocean acidity relates to man's increased CO2 production which increased dramatically with the invention of the internal combustion engine.

So, you are not disagreeing with my statement directly, just adding a bunch of verbiage that you think will impress others as well as predicting what might happen in the next 75 years? And you "imagine" that the increase in the ocean acidity is related to automobile exhaust fumes? I don't "imagine" that volcanoes can cause disruptions in the ocean environment. It's fact, not imagination.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Byte1

So, you are not disagreeing with my statement directly, just adding a bunch of verbiage that you think will impress others as well as predicting what might happen in the next 75 years? And you "imagine" that the increase in the ocean acidity is related to automobile exhaust fumes? I don't "imagine" that volcanoes can cause disruptions in the ocean environment. It's fact, not imagination.

In BOTH of my posts about the 75 years, I was talking about the FUTURE, not the LAST 75 years. It somehow got misinterpreted from my 1st post. (possibly if it was read rapidly) Regardless, I did not make that prediction, it was made by an ocean scientist that is an expert on the world's coral reefs. I just passed that prediction along because it was important to the Climate Change topic that is being discussed. I am just like everyone else a CONTRIBUTOR to the discussion, no more, no less.
.........When I say I "imagine" that the increased ocean acidity is caused by CO2 from IC engines (because the last 200 years of increased acidity - that time period OVERLAPS with the invention of the automobile. When I say I "imagine" something, that means that it is my OPINION.
.........as far as ocean volcanoes causing the rising level of oceans worldwide as measured by scientists (not my opinion) - that is NOT something that I have ever heard or read from any scientist as a cause of their measurements increasing at a large rate in recent years. They have always said that the cause is the melting of glaciers and polar ice, which in turn is caused by Global Warming. Again.NOT my OPINION, just a statement from scientists that I am relaying or adding to this discussion.

[sounding]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

In BOTH of my posts about the 75 years, I was talking about the FUTURE, not the LAST 75 years. It somehow got misinterpreted from my 1st post. (possibly if it was read rapidly) Regardless, I did not make that prediction, it was made by an ocean scientist that is an expert on the world's coral reefs. I just passed that prediction along because it was important to the Climate Change topic that is being discussed. I am just like everyone else a CONTRIBUTOR to the discussion, no more, no less.
.........When I say I "imagine" that the increased ocean acidity is caused by CO2 from IC engines (because the last 200 years of increased acidity - that time period OVERLAPS with the invention of the automobile. When I say I "imagine" something, that means that it is my OPINION.
.........as far as ocean volcanoes causing the rising level of oceans worldwide as measured by scientists (not my opinion) - that is NOT something that I have ever heard or read from any scientist as a cause of their measurements increasing at a large rate in recent years. They have always said that the cause is the melting of glaciers and polar ice, which in turn is caused by Global Warming. Again.NOT my OPINION, just a statement from scientists that I am relaying or adding to this discussion.

There is NO increased ocean acidity -- only a tiny decrease in alkalinity. Plus, coral diversity was much higher in the past when CO2 levels much higher than now. Oceans convert CO2 to carbonates which corals use to build coral reefs. CO2 is plant food on land and in oceans -- it is the foundation of earth's food chain -- and more is better.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by sounding

There is NO increased ocean acidity -- only a tiny decrease in alkalinity. Plus, coral diversity was much higher in the past when CO2 levels much higher than now. Oceans convert CO2 to carbonates which corals use to build coral reefs. CO2 is plant food on land and in oceans -- it is the foundation of earth's food chain -- and more is better.

Once again, stop trying to confuse the truly indoctrinated with the facts. Maybe we need a professional deprogrammer.

[sounding]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Once again, stop trying to confuse the truly indoctrinated with the facts. Maybe we need a professional deprogrammer.

This climate propaganda has been going on for 30 years ... so deprogramming may take 29 more years.