I totally agree with you, CFrance! Just because a community is dog-friendly doesn't excuse bad behavior by dog owners. That would be like saying just because a community is golf-friendly, that excuses bad behavior by golfers.:icon_wink:

I don't want you to look at my dog and say, "oh, sh**!!!" I want you to see me walking my dog and have it be a non-issue for you. I want to protect my dog and his public image as much as I want to protect your property

To me, the key word in the quote I highlighted in bold/yellow is this: "provide".

Or more specifically, "Who" should provide for the needs of homeowners' pets?"

TV already "provides" more bang for our quality buck for people than any other place we've seen in the continent. Right now, the developers are trying to "provide" a large-scale, medical-home concept primary healthcare system for people. That is just one of dozens of things TV "provides".

So, should TV also "provide" a veterinary medical-home concept primary healthcare system too, because there are thousands of dogs living in TV, so that we don't have to load the dogs into the car and drive outside TV to a private-owned vet clinic and pay individual rates instead of group rates, too?

I don't mean to be "offensive" to say this, but I and others who've written me by pm think it needs to be said:

People are citizens of this community, where we all bought our own home and lot. Dogs are property, not citizens.

Property owners are expected to take care of their own property and livestock.

If taking care of one's property means paying for membership at Doggie Doo Run or other privately-run facility, then that's what needs to be done. If there aren't enough of these facilities, then somebody ought to form and fund another one or five.

If buying a bigger lot, or some acreage, where the dog(s) can run free off-leash is needed to take care of one's dog (property), then that is what the property owner should do.

When you bought in TV, you knew that it was pet friendly and residents were allowed two dogs. After I actually moved here, I was a bit surprised at the number of dogs in TV as I am sure others were too. Many Seniors love their dogs and they have become family---to some---their dogs have become more important than people----a bit over the top. A Dog, no matter how good a companion, is not more important than a human IMHO. 98% of Dog Lovers and Dog Others use common sense. Some may have reason to dislike being around dogs---maybe they have been attack or maybe they are allergic. Regardless, EVERBODY should be respectful. When TOTV had a political forum, you could opt out---a very good option. We can't opt out of the human race----so lets be more respectful of everbody's views.

Tom, are you having a bad day? If you re-read my posts, you are inferring a meaning that was not meant. No, I haven't lost my mind, but by your last comment, I think you are overreacting! Honestly, do you really think you will ban dogs peeing on the grass all over, Like at mailboxes and occasionally where they aren't supposed to 100 percent of the time? Is it just me? Or have I lived in a bubble most of my life? In my other neighborhood, or any neighborhood I have EVER lived in, this was Never an issue. I spend time and money on both of my lawns and a lot of time. Dogs walking by will pee by the road on your grass. All I can say is it doesn't bother me, but it does you! I certainly would consider things that bother me when purchasing a house, that is all I was saying. Don't expect you to move, no sense of entitlement! Just my opinion like you have one! I hope I didn't raise your blood pressure! Have a good day!

Being a dog or animal lover is not the point. I would never allow my dog to tresspass on anyone's property for any reason. It isn't necessary and when people do allow it I think they have a sense of entitlement and give the rest of us dog people a bad name. :boxing2: So there!!!

:welcome:

If the entitlement posts are meant for me. I Never said I let my dogs do their thing wherever AND I don't need an explanation of what this means to be a responsible dog owner, I said it doesn't bother me and I will offer treats to dogs that come in my yard. If we allowed signs in our yards here, maybe we could let people know if your yard is dog friendly or not, just an idea! So we don't offend those who don't like it.

I have lived in a lot of places and have never seen such anger and malice directed at people and animals.

A week or so ago someone posted that their friend left meat with exlax in their front yard "to get their point across". Judging by most of the pets I see that would be the equivalent of an adult man ingesting 15-20 pills. Grant it, nobody would allow their dog to eat such a thing but sometimes pets get loose.

You don't have to voice every thought that crosses your mind, you don't have to act on every impulse. Every time I see a child out of control running around the supermarket I resist the urge to stick out my foot to trip them. Sometimes it's not easy-LOL.

As far as your precious lawns, the grass here looks like crabgrass to me. You probably couldn't kill it if you tried.

:mademyday:

I'm trying to get my head around why people think it's ok for dogs to go on private property (picked up or not). Can anybody help me who thinks that--what is the reasoning? I just don't get it.

I'm trying to think of analogies...bear with me please. I would like sincere responses from people who think it's ok to let pets go on private property how these situations may differ in your mind from your dog's picked up poop.

Say you're walking the dog in a small town and a guy spits his tobacco wad on your dog, says, "oops, I'll clean it up. they ought to put someplace to spit around here" and wipes the dog off.
The dog is your property, the guy cleaned it up.---Is this ok?
If it happened repeatedly, would you keep going there?

Say your car is parked at the grocery while you're shopping in the only shady spot. Staff have historically been smoking and eating lunch under that tree. Jane has eaten her messy oriental food from your hood. She is cleaning up the mess with iced tea on a napkin when you come out with groceries.
"Hey, the car is clean now. They should put picnic tables out here."
The car is your property. People have to eat-----Is this ok?
If this became the norm at groceries with shade, would you park in the shade?

Kitty, I generally agree with most of your posts in this thread, but you can't honestly think these are even remotely comparable examples, can you??!!??

I agree. I don't get the comparison ????

Thank you for asking respectfully.

Person A owns property.
Person B adversely affects the property.
Person B cleans up the property.

Why are they not comparable situations?
Sincerely wondering?
Kitty

A dog is not really just property....
 

...but a constant companion, protector, friend, bodyguard, clown, sometimes bed mate, etc.

I have met almost no dogs that I did not find something good to say about them. Cannot say the same about many people.

I suppose if someone were walking their horse up and down my street and letting its manure stand on the street and on my yard's grass I would have a problem with this but I cannot think of any horse owner who would do this.

Kitty, although I am a dog owner I generally do my best not to allow my dog to place a paw on any one else"s property when we are out walking. But I am willing to speculate as to why other people might do so.
My guess is that they do so because they somehow think it is basically harmless. No harm, no foul, so to speak.
For example, I am strolling down the sidewalk alone. I encounter two ladies walking side by side in the opposite direction taking up the entire width of the sidewalk. They are chatting away and do not notice me. So to avoid being bumped into I step off the sidewalk and stand on your lawn until they pass. So technically I have just trespassed on your property. But since I can imagine no harm being done, I don't give it a second thought. Do you think that this is an unreasonable attitude on my part?
Or lets say I"m walking down the sidewalk with my dog beside me. I'm not paying attention and as we pass your yard, he suddenly lifts his leg and "marks" (pees on) one of your bushes. Half an hour later I see you outside and say "I'm sorry, but my dog peed on one of your bushes a while ago". Do you actually think you could go over and discover which bush it was without my telling you? If you went out and looked every day for a month, do you think you could tell which bush it was?
I pick up my dog's poop from my yard everyday. Most time it is solid enough that, after picking it up there is no visible residual. Is my yard still somehow to be considered contaminated in some manner? If the poop is somewhat mushy and there is a residual, how long should the area be considered contaminated in your opinion? In my experience, if I go looking the next day, I cannot pinpoint exactly where that poop had been. Is it still dangerous or to be considered somehow unpleasant? How long does such a condition persist?
Sorry to be commenting in such gross detail, but it seems a matter of such extreme concern for some people, that I felt I had little choice if I wished to understand where others are coming from.

Some of your questions are answered here. You sound like a very responsible owner.

Facts About the Dangers of Dog Poop
Dog poop is a problem we deal with on a daily basis. But is it dangerous? How much do you know? Is pet waste a health hazard?

Here are the dangerous facts:

1. Dog poop is NOT good fertilizer. It's toxic to your lawn! The high nutrient concentration in dog poop will burn and discolor the grass, creating "hot spots".

2. Nearly two decades ago, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) classified pet waste as a dangerous pollutant in the same category as toxic chemicals and oil.

3. You may not live near water, but unscooped poop from your yard is carried by overland water flow or is washed into storm drains, ending up in far away streams, rivers and ground water.

4. The U.S. Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) confirms pet waste can spread parasites including hookworms, ringworms, tapeworms and Salmonella. When infected dog poop comes into contact with your lawn, the poop will eventually "disappear", but the parasite eggs can linger for years! When a human or animal comes into contact with that soil through everyday activities like walking barefoot, gardening or playing, they risk infection from those eggs ... even years after the poop is gone.

5. Pet waste is teaming with E. Coli and other harmful bacteria including fecal coliform bacteria, which causes serious kidney disorders, intestinal illness, cramps and diarrhea in humans. (There are 23 million fecal coliform bacteria in a single gram of pet waste!)

6. Dog poop often contains roundworm larvae, which cause blindness. If a human ingests a roundworm larva, it can migrate through the body causing disease to the brain, lungs, kidneys, liver, heart or eyes. So when people (especially children) touch soil, dog toys or anything that has been in contact with dog feces and then touch their mouths, they can become infected.

Dog poop doesn't just "wash away" or disappear. So if you're not disposing of your dog's waste, you're putting yourself, your family, your dog and your water supply at risk.

It happens all the time, usually not on the street because the horses I know are a little too "UP" to be ridden on the street. They cut through other peoples property and they drop manure. It's not like they have a groom running behind them with a muck bucket.

It sounds like you do your best. To me it is black and white. If it is not my property, I have no right to be there, especially not allowing an animal to use it for a bathroom.It isn't a matter of whether there is lasting harm. I can think of countless ways to violate private property secretly and without leaving a trace.

For example a group of teenagers decides to party in the backyard of a vacant house in a new construction area--what's the harm if they pick everything up? They can't imagine why anyone would care, and who will know?

They might say, there was no harm so why do you care....does that make it ok?

So, what will you do? Have your dog never leave the little yard? Doesn't sound much of a life for her.

yeah Patty:bigbow::bigbow::bigbow:
I do not know u .... But well said...it is becoming vicious toward man and beast.

Not at all, Patty. I didn't say that and never will. Not sure how you got that idea. Simply don't walk the dog where it can go on private property.

Simply because they are not. Your attempt at simplification does not change the fact that they are not even remotely comparable. It's too obvious to require specifics.

Sounds like a plan, where would that be?

I always wondered when walking in a national park with horse trails why I was required to pick up my dog's poop, but horse owners had no such obligation. Wonder how that would go down in TV???

As confirmed once again by this thread still going this is apparently a larger problem than most ever thought and one that definitely raises blood pressures. To some the dogs have become family, or even replaced family, sometimes to the extreme.
It is really hard to understand why one would own a pet that they cannot control. Many have said sometimes pets just do what they do and sometimes they get loose and sometimes you just cannot stop them from going. Some of the same have expressed ire with out of control children they have seen as they too also appeared out of control. For some reason they didn't seem to have the same compassion for the parents of those children or even the children as they did for the pets. Children are people and should behave but surely would receive compassion over animals.
Thanks to the many that walk their dogs everyday and are always mindful and keep the dogs close to them and out of yards. Whether it really does any harm or not most people I think just feel it is disrespectful for anyone to allow their animals to scratch around and leave excrement on their property without their permission. A lot of times the scratching with front and back feet after the deed is done does pull up grass. Not all dogs do this but the ones that do tear up grass. Then the owner has to make a trip out to retrieve the package as well. A single occurrence would probably not be a big deal for anyone but numerous occurrences day after day does become a problem.
It's really not anyone's right to look at another’s lawn and say it’s just grass or it is not pretty enough to worry about keeping off their property. It's their property and it's important to them.
It’s obvious a lot of pet owner’s don’t think it is a problem since they are so enamored with the pet they actually think they can do no wrong. This is OK for them but there’s nothing that can be said that will justify not keeping them under total control and realizing not everyone agrees and has a singular right to control anything that happens on their own property.

Why am I still reading this thread? I think my head rolled off somewhere on Page 4 ...

Horse people don't have a problem because they can't catch them, besides, everyone knows that MANURE HAPPENS.

"...A single occurrence would probably not be a big deal for anyone but numerous occurrences day after day does become a problem.

It's really not anyone's right to look at another’s lawn and say it’s just grass or it is not pretty enough to worry about keeping off their property. It's their property and it's important to them...."

This leads to my continuing question which is: When a homeowner has made it clear they do not want dog owners allowing their dogs to mess on their private property--their lawn--why do the dog owners continue to do what they've been asked not to do??? This is just plain disrespectful!

And just now, as I came westward on O'Dell just inside the gate in front of Havana CC, I saw a woman with her dog on the golf course and about 15 ft. away from the sidewalk. The dog was lifting its leg on a course boundary post or other such short white box or post that was part of the course. Now is THIS something nobody should say nothing about, too?? Or is golf course turf pretty enough and expensive enough that the person should be told to STOP it?

It isn't a problem for the overwhelming majority, the one Billethekid is always talking about. I don't have a dog. I do so like them with the exception of Pitbulls and they scare me. We have two cats, Mikey, Harry and Hershey and they stay inside our home. We see people walking their dogs in this village and we saw them walking them in Hadley. I know the name of every dog that walks around in my area. I like them. They are warm and nice and each has their own personality.

So far, no dog has done his business on our property with the exception of some close friend dogs who will hike their leg and mark our bushes while their owners are chatting to us. Hasn't hurt the bushes.

Some people are pet people and some people have absolutely NO use for animals in their home or on their property. That doesn't make them wrong, it just makes them puzzling to me. I am probably ten times worse to THEM so it all evens out.

I am glad we have lotsa dogs and I have had not one single problem so far.

Are we sure it's "not a problem for the overwhelming majority"? Any data to back that up or is that an assumption?

I would personally like all dog walkers to assume that it's NOT ok to go in people's yards. I'm training them, one by one.

Can I cry "UNCLE" now??? PLEASE??!!

I saw a great example tonight of controlling the dog:
owner is walking small white fluffy down the residential street passing by an unbuilt lot.

She has a retractable leash and is holding it in both hands, with most of it retracted, allowing the dog 6 feet of lead, enough for the dog to walk on the unbuilt lot. when they continue past the grass of a private residence, she shortens the lead to 4 feet and walks far enough from the grass that fluffy has to walk in the street with her.
Well done, neighbor!

Good example. Why this has to be explained and illustrated to people who've lived this long, and should be smarter than a 5th grader, is beyond me. We were taught in 1962 as we walked home from school that we were not supposed to trespass on homeowners' yards and we were to stay on the sidewalk.

Somehow we just knew that if walking/playing on somebody else's yard was not allowed, leaving dog feces on it was far worse and far more unacceptable.

I'm not sure what would constitute data to back that up, but I personally think Gracie's right.

There are a few dog owners that don't respect others' property. There are far more that do. There are a few non dog owners that impose unreasonable expectations on dog owners. There are far more that do not.

I thought she was saying the overwhelming majority of home owners think it's ok for dogs to pee and poop all over their lawn.

And what exactly is unreasonable expectations? My expectations are your dog should never under any circumstances pee or poop on my turf. If you allow that behavior and you get caught, prepare for a confrontation.

I don't think so.

I'll leave that to each individual. But I do believe some unreasonable expectations have been put forth in this thread.

Now here's where I'll probably incur your wrath...

While I totally respect your opinion and property rights, I believe if an otherwise well-mannered owner, with bag in hand ready for a #2, allows his/her dog to pee on grass near the street in front of your property, a confrontation would be pushing the limits of reasonable behavior.

I guess some people just need confrontations to escalate before they understand.

Be safe out there, your misguided judgement, sense of entitlement and outright lack of respect might get you in a situation you won't like...

I don't get it, Is it sooooo important for your dog to not have to poop in the street that you are willing to take that risk?

Polar Bear, You've demonstrated exactly why this issue is unresolved, that in your mind you "totally respect..property rights" , consider yourself "well-mannered" and think it is reasonable for your dog to pee on the homeowner's grass.

I would consider your allowing the dog to pee in my yard to be ill-mannered, and disrespectful, and I would confront you too, even though MY dog is allowed to pee in my yard. The point is not the pee, it is that no matter what you are doing on my property, if you are there to help yourself to a piece of it, I will feel that you have no respect.

That said, I respect your having a different opinion and would gently ask that you not do that on my yard with a smile, the first time.

When my dog poops in my yard I pick it up, so I won't step in it, so it won't attract flies, and out of consideration for my lawn guys. If your dog poops in my yard, and you pick it up, I don't care about it. If your dog poops in my yard, and you don't pick it up, and I step in it, I'll be upset about it. Not homicidal, just upset.