I don't eat on patios. But, I think that restaurants should be able to ban all dogs from being inside their restaurant. I don't care whether the dog is a service dog or not. The Federal ADA law is absurd. People who don't want to dine with dogs, should not be required to do so.

The Law Itself is a Poor One
 

That happens to be the law, albeit not a very good one, I will admit. Feel free to look it up.

I strongly disagree. My brother is 100% blind and completely relies on his incredibly well trained seeing eye dog (an absolutely beautiful German Shepherd) to be his eyes. Without his dog, he couldn’t go out to dinner. When his dog is in harness she is 100% working and well behaved. All the fake service dogs being paraded around by entitled a holes really pi$$es me off, they discredit the real service dogs that people like my brother depend on to live as normal a life as they possibly can.

Change Your Tune and Becomne Enlightened
 

I don't think we disagree very much. The ADA law may have good intentions, but it gives way too much power to those who want to take advantage of it to bring their dog everywhere they go. The law has no enforcement mechanism.

Proof of Service Dog Laws Need to be Changed
 

It’s bad when the grocery store needs to post a sign not to put animals in the shopping cart

Very self serving. There are many people who are negatively affected when exposed to dogs as a result of illnesses, allergies or fear or distrust due to previous incidents.

Self-Serving? Nope!
 

the human condition: "Everyone should be treated equally, but I should be treated special!"

we are all suffering!

We were at a doctor's office and someone had their large service dog with a service dog vest on and it barked and barked and barked some more.

I would rather sit by a well behaved dog then the entitled,spoiled,screaming kid. Also NO ONE under 21 should be allowed in restaurants when alcohol is served. That's what we have McDonalds for

Not exaggerating. As a former dog owner who still loves dogs but now lives with one negatively affected by dogs, it is my opinion that those individuals deserve the right to not be forced to accept exposure to dogs except in the case of TRUE service dogs (ie:seeing eye dogs). Service dogs owners should be required to be questioned and carry proof of type of service.
As to your study, it should make perfect sense that one would not like the thing(s) that they fear or that make them ill. I find your results not "interesting and amazing", but exactly what one would/should expect. And your comment to just walk away. That is often impractical or just not possible.
I agree that owning a dog is an emotional thing. We love our pets, but not everyone else does. Nor should we expect them to or demand they do.
Emotional support animals serve the same purpose as a teddy bear. Something to focus on and hold to transfer your distress to Think of the poor dog, for God's sake. It senses your distress, has no idea what is so wrong. Now you have made the poor dog miserable. Shame on you. Take a "happy" pill, grab your teddy bear and let the poor dog alone for its mental health.

Posters can argue/debate ad nauseum, but the arguments would be better placed to congressmen to make changes. The ADA law vis-a-vis service dogs is too weak and leaves too much opening for fraud. I personally see nothing wrong with some sort of agency certifying service dogs, issuing a tag, and requiring their owners to carry papers. I realize that also would be open to counterfeit, but I think it would weed out most of the cheaters. I also see nothing wrong with a merchant asking to see proof of certification.

Legitimate service dogs perform more than just seeing-eye tasks. They open doors, detect seizures, alert their owners to certain dangers such as the onset of diabetic coma--the list goes on. Some can push a button on a phone or other alert device. It would be impossible to demonstrate some of these tasks to anyone in a store or restaurant who asks.

The tags could be made to be read with the same equipment stores use to check for counterfeit money. The training agencies could cover the costs of the tags and certification for those unable to pay at the time they equip the disabled person with a dog. Grants and donations help.

It's time the ADA people cleaned up this particular law, in my opinion.

It's also time people stopped gaming the system. It's giving the rest of us responsible dog owners a bad name. We know where and where not to take our dogs, and why.

I agree with you. Guide dogs for the blind are pretty obvious that they are performing a function. But, there are many animals that perform functions for those whose disability is not so obvious. This is the area the cheaters (scammers) exploit. This is why I believe that any establishment open to the public should be able to ask the owner of a service animal to provide proof (license) they (the animal) is legit. There should be penalties for those who try to scam the system.
Truly responsible pet owners sadly often get unfairly lumped in with the "bad guys", and they don't deserve that.

The same can be said for those who have "an emotional response" to dogs...

They should simply take a "happy pill" and grab their teddy bear...

That Was A Service Dog?
 

My thought was that could have been the response to it sensing a seizure or some other problem. Did anyone bother to check with or check on the dog's owner?

Wrong. That is like telling a soldier suffering from traumatic battle fatigue and physical abuse to take a sedative, grab a teddy bear and get back in the battle.
My point is that if I have anxiety ( I do ) and I get a dog for comfort and come home, my wife could be stressed by being confronted by the source of her very real major trauma. I don't have a dog, and instead take medication. It works and no poor dog was harmed physically or emotionally by me dumping my stress on the poor dog

Horrid analogy...

A better one would be that same veteran showing up at a 4th of July celebration and demanding that no one can enjoy fireworks...

Dogs love to serve. Don't assume that they are having "stressed dumped on them"...

You analogy is false regarding most situations where the stress occurs. Using your scenario, the celebration was planned, no surprise. The vet makes a conscious decision to go. He knowingly creates his own circumstance.
My analogy, using your scenario would be; the veteran contacts a restaurant to arrange a quiet dinner for two for an anniversary. In the middle of the quiet dinner, a large, rowdy crowd comes in, loud music and pyrotechnics go off. The poor vet took pains to plan a peaceful evening, which was ruined. Not his fault.

As to " dogs love to serve". I just think they enjoy most interactions with their owners. Dogs are sensitive, empathetic and if you are in pain physically or mentally, they sense that and they feel bad too, only, they have no clue why you are troubled or what to do for you. So, you have transferred your stress and unhappiness onto them.

Sorry, but you cannot control what goes on around you in life...

If you want to try... Stay home...

Or, they transfer their calm and happiness on to their owner...

If I could figure out how to start a new thread I would, however I can not. Speaking of Vets and MD's kind of fits in with my question. Are licensed M.D.'s required to take continuing education courses in their field to keep their medical license active?

Yup... In my case, 50 hrs every 2 years...

Do all states have the same requirement?

Which is why the law is absolutely ridiculous and needs to be rewritten. I would suggest that a business owner not only may, but be required to be shown proof that it is indeed a service animal. No "emotional support" animals. If you need rover to be with you at all times, you need to be in a psychiatrist's office, not a restaurant. When this came up about 15 years ago, I absolutely refused to give any patient a letter certifying they need an "emotional support" pet. I told them that if their separation anxiety rose to the level of needing to have their pet everywhere they go, they need to see a mental health professional and I'd be glad to make the referral. Not one ever took me up on it nor mentioned it again. I came to the conclusion that 90%+ of these requests were bogus. It was basically on par with requests for a handicapped sticker when the patient had no handicap that I was aware of. Nobody could give a legitimate reason, but I often heard "Dr. XYZ" just gives them out without asking. Great---go see him!

I'd love to see that "documentation". I'd also dispute that doctors make 4x more than veterinarians---average doctor income---$224,000, average vet salary----$136,000, so 65% more, NOT 400% more. I wish I made 4x what my vet did. The funny part----every time I brought my dog to my vet, it was $200-$400 for the visit. When my vet came to see me, the charge was $90

Ain't that the truth. But then again, I just took those papers in my right hand, transferred them to my left hand and threw them in the trash. My usual response to anyone who questioned that action was "The day I need to rely on your google search to do my job is the day you need to RUN, not WALK, away from me"

Absolutetly! A minimum of 100 hours/ year in New York.

Equal trade one office visit for one vet visit.

Well, I'm licensed in MD, DC and FL, and they have those requirements.

Some of the specifics of the hours may be different from state to state (for example, FL has an opiate CME requirement due to the previous problems with "Pill Mills", and DC has an LBGTQ CME requirement), but as far as I know, pretty much every state has the 50 hr/every 2 years requirement...

Yup...

When my youngest daughter was in HS, she was thinking about being a vet. She would always come with me or my wife to bring the dog for checkups and shots...

One time, as we were checking out, the receptionist told me that "today's charges are 200 and something $$$". I gave her a credit card and commented, "And THAT is why you should be a vet"...

The receptionist chuckled and nodded in agreement... People will automatically pay their veterinarian, but they'll argue all day long if their insurance benefits leave them with any co-pay or balance to their doctors...

Yep---another nail hit on the head.

I used to think it was somewhat low class for obstetricians to demand all their fee up front before the baby's delivery. But in reality, if they didn't, they would be below last on the list of people to get paid-----crib, stroller, play pen, diapers, food, bottle, cute little fuzzy animal and mobiles, VCR to record the baby, etc all come first.

I don't know about you, JM, but I never turned a patient away because they owed money. I doubt the same can be said about most vets.

Never did... Wound up giving away $40-50K in free care every year...

I figured, with me being such an AH, I needed all the Karma I could get! :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

I believe in actuality they're considered 'emotional support dogs'

Two people that belong to the church I attend actually bring them into the church on Sunday

Sad...

Can not imagine to many untrained dogs are happy to be there with their owners.