Why the wide open border, nobody turned away policy?

[billethkid]

I really do hope this thread survives because like me there must be many others who have no idea why this is being allowed to happen:

Border agent laments Mexican gang members entering U.S.: 'Why are we letting him in here?' - Washington Times (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/14/border-agents-lament-mexican-gang-members-entering/)

There obviously must be something I do not know or appreciate about why!?

Where do they live? who houses them? feeds them? Schools them? What are their rights? Where does the money come from? Am I the only one who thinks this is also an open door for every criminal/terrorist or someone who will do us harm?

I would appreciate being enlightened without the subject deteriorating to the point it is cancelled. It is a legitimate issue that will in fact affect all of us in the not too distant future. Just do a math birth projection on the hundreds of thousands being allowed in.

[Rags123]

I really do hope this thread survives because like me there must be many others who have no idea why this is being allowed to happen:

Border agent laments Mexican gang members entering U.S.: 'Why are we letting him in here?' - Washington Times (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/14/border-agents-lament-mexican-gang-members-entering/)

There obviously must be something I do not know or appreciate about why!?

Where do they live? who houses them? feeds them? Schools them? What are their rights? Where does the money come from? Am I the only one who thinks this is also an open door for every criminal/terrorist or someone who will do us harm?

I would appreciate being enlightened without the subject deteriorating to the point it is cancelled. It is a legitimate issue that will in fact affect all of us in the not too distant future. Just do a math birth projection on the hundreds of thousands being allowed in.

I do not understand it at all and IT IS SCARY.

Besides those flowing from Mexico.....there are thugs in quantities that are simply overwhelming....35,000 PER DAY...coming in from Central America and this is amazing but

"Newspapers in El Salvador and Honduras are encouraging their countries’ young people to head north to the United States, promising them an easy life courtesy of the welcoming Obama administration.

“During their stay, in addition to accommodations and food, children receive English classes, play sports and participate in targeted programs while immigration authorities contact their families,” La Prensa of Honduras wrote, Newsmax reported Wednesday."

Central American newspapers encouraging illegal immigration | New York Post (http://nypost.com/2014/06/12/central-american-newspapers-encouraging-illegal-immigration/)

And nobody is even talking about it. The statements by those GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED newspapers may be inaccurate but why is nobody calling for them to cease. These are criminals coming in and we worry about terrorists...hmmm.

And this should not become political in anyway, it is surely current events and needs to be discussed.

I am not sure where our media is anymore...more about movie stars, and such then about this blatant violation of our law that.....TRUST ME....has to be dealt with.

In direct answer to your question, the Homeland Securty Secretary was asked during hearings about this very thing..specifically he was asked if he or anyone had told these countries to stop.....he said and believe it or not this is a direct quote...."“I’ve told my staff that we need to consider all options to deal with this situation.”

I suggest someone do something soon.

[Bogie Shooter]

Google

[l2ridehd]

There is only one reason this happens. Someone at a very very high level in government decided to change policy. I know a policy change of this magnitude requires presidential approval.

[Chi-Town]

Let me figure this out. The plea is to keep this a non political current events discussion, and the sources for this are the New York Post and the Washington Times? This could be a tough request.

[graciegirl]

Let me figure this out. The plea is to keep this a non political current events discussion, and the sources for this are the New York Post and the Washington Times? This could be a tough request.



What is your take on this? It is very troubling. My ancestors had to come in through channels. It isn't the present administration that is doing this, the last couple have stopped enforcing laws on immigration. Both sides of the aisle.

[blueash]

I really do hope this thread survives because like me there must be many others who have no idea why this is being allowed to happen:

Border agent laments Mexican gang members entering U.S.: 'Why are we letting him in here?' - Washington Times (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/14/border-agents-lament-mexican-gang-members-entering/)

There obviously must be something I do not know or appreciate about why!?

Where do they live? who houses them? feeds them? Schools them? What are their rights? Where does the money come from? Am I the only one who thinks this is also an open door for every criminal/terrorist or someone who will do us harm?

I would appreciate being enlightened without the subject deteriorating to the point it is cancelled. It is a legitimate issue that will in fact affect all of us in the not too distant future. Just do a math birth projection on the hundreds of thousands being allowed in.

So let me see if I clearly understand your complaint. Is it that minors with gang tattoos are being allowed into this country because that is the theme of the article you linked from the Washington times? Or is this that brown people have lots of children and will reproduce to the point that gringos no longer have the voting clout we now enjoy, which is certainly the point of your last paragraph. You do know that when they let the Irish in people screamed, and the Italians, and of course the Jews. And we had years of laws to relegate those "Orientals" to second class citizenship. They couldn't even be lawyers, just cheap labor. And all those Cubans that Castro sent our way only built the economy of Miami to a world class city level. The answer is that if their parents are already here... that is who will house and feed them. This is America, we can handle it

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

[graciegirl]

So let me see if I clearly understand your complaint. Is it that minors with gang tattoos are being allowed into this country because that is the theme of the article you linked from the Washington times? Or is this that brown people have lots of children and will reproduce to the point that gringos no longer have the voting clout we now enjoy, which is certainly the point of your last paragraph. You do know that when they let the Irish in people screamed, and the Italians, and of course the Jews. And we had years of laws to relegate those "Orientals" to second class citizenship. They couldn't even be lawyers, just cheap labor. And all those Cubans that Castro sent our way only built the economy of Miami to a world class city level. The answer is that if their parents are already here... that is who will house and feed them. This is America, we can handle it

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"



Until we run out of money. Right now we are in the red.

[Rags123]

I was under the impression that the thread had to do with the lack of enforcement of EXISTING UNITED STATES LAW, and the strain of our border states. That, and nobody not only gets arrested, but they are allowed to stay.

If this is not considered current events, and if nobody cares, we really have problems.

Now those who find fault wit the sources, I suggest to you, it is news..it is being reported, and if any of those publications lied, you should call them on it...HERE.

I hope this is acceptable....

"Since October 1, 2013, according to the NY Times, a record 47,017 unaccompanied children have been apprehended at the southwest border, a 90% increase over the previous fiscal year, with at least 60,000 total expected by the end of the current fiscal year on September 30.

According to the Times, "Many say they are coming because they believe that the United States treats migrant children traveling alone and women with their children more leniently than adult illegal immigrants with no children." The Times confirms based on interviews with immigration officials and lawyers that there has in fact been a shift in U.S. policy."

Obama's immigration scandals: surge of illegals crossing border, deportable criminals released onto U.S. streets (http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/local/brandywine-to-broad/68811-obama-administration-faces-two-immigration-scandals-surge-of-illegals-crossing-border-and-release-of-deportable-criminal-aliens-onto-us-streets)

Note referencing NewYork Times.
From that same article....

"The other immigration scandal, as reported by CBS News and the Washington Times, is the disclosure that despite its stated policy of prioritizing the deportation of aliens with criminal convictions, the Obama administration has in fact released onto U.S. streets 36,007 deportable aliens with criminal convictions in 2013. Those aliens, with no right to remain in the U.S., included 193 homicide convictions, 426 sexual assault convictions, 303 kidnapping convictions, 1,075 aggravated assault convictions, and 1,160 stolen vehicle convictions.

The administration claims that some of the releases were required because the home countries of criminal aliens refuse to accept their own criminal citizens back. But the Obama administration refuses to apply diplomatic pressure on those countries by stopping the issuance of U.S. visas to their citizens, as previous administrations have done with success. And at least 25% of the convicted murderers who are deportable aliens, appear to have been released by the Obama administration on its own initiative."
The

There has been a steady stream of reports on the caliber of folks we are allowing to flaunt our laws, but not sure what news source might be acceptable.

These folks are not flooding your neighborhood as of yet. I am betting there might be a change of attitude if that were the case.

[blueash]

Newspapers in El Salvador and Honduras are encouraging their countries’ young people to head north to the United States, promising them an easy life courtesy of the welcoming Obama administration.

And nobody is even talking about it. The statements by those GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED newspapers may be inaccurate but why is nobody calling for them to cease.

So let me see if I correctly understand your post. Newspapers in Central America which may or may not be ALL CAPS government controlled, because all caps makes it really scary, are encouraging the young people in their nation to go to the US for better economic opportunity. You believe that somebody here should be telling those newspapers to stop encouraging emigration to the US? And you of course believe in freedom of the press but think our government should tell their government to suppress their press, even if the advise is perfectly reasonable leaving out the "easy life courtesy of the welcoming Obama administration" which I doubt any newspaper ever printed except the Murdoch owned NY Post. The article in fact says that children are temporarily detained if they cross the border while family already in the US is located. A few weeks in detention where they are treated humanely hardly qualifies as an "easy life" You do understand the phrase "during their stay" means while they are in a federal holding camp?

[Rags123]

So let me see if I correctly understand your post. Newspapers in Central America which may or may not be ALL CAPS government controlled, because all caps makes it really scary, are encouraging the young people in their nation to go to the US for better economic opportunity. You believe that somebody here should be telling those newspapers to stop encouraging emigration to the US? And you of course believe in freedom of the press but think our government should tell their government to suppress their press, even if the advise is perfectly reasonable leaving out the "easy life courtesy of the welcoming Obama administration" which I doubt any newspaper ever printed except the Murdoch owned NY Post. The article in fact says that children are temporarily detained if they cross the border while family already in the US is located. A few weeks in detention where they are treated humanely hardly qualifies as an "easy life" You do understand the phrase "during their stay" means while they are in a federal holding camp?

Well, I am sorry that I was not clear at all on my post.

I wonder why one country would ask their folks to leave their country to violate the laws of our country, by crossing our borders with promises that will not be fulfilled. Does that not bother you at all ?

I did nothing in caps but was tempted to when I typed .....violating our laws. I think that is important that we will not enforce our laws at the border.

I understand you sympathies for these folks and ask you to read the stats in another post or check on your own, how many actually and really ever leave the country. A small percentage....and we are stretching our local government to the nth degree.

Those who preach about immigrants coming here and making our country great are terribly misusing that analogy. THAT is not how it was done ever before. This is uncontrolled chaos.

It must be me, but wanting the laws of this country enforced to protect this country does not seem radical. We worry about the cost of taking care of the needy citizens of our country and then stretch ourselves by allowing people to violate the law and further stretch all of our spending.

[billethkid]

So let me see if I clearly understand your complaint. Re-read the post IT IS NOT A COMPLAINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Is it that minors with gang tattoos are being allowed into this country because that is the theme of the article you linked from the Washington times? Or is this that brown people have lots of children and will reproduce to the point that gringos no longer have the voting clout we now enjoy, which is certainly the point of your last paragrapheXCUSE ME...YOU ARE TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT STATING WHAT THE INTENT OF MY LAST SENTENCE WAS. Do us a favor and express your point of view without arbitrary interpretation!!. You do know that when they let the Irish in people screamed, and the Italians, and of course the Jews. And we had years of laws to relegate those "Orientals" to second class citizenship. They couldn't even be lawyers, just cheap labor. And all those Cubans that Castro sent our way only built the economy of Miami to a world class city level. The answer is that if their parents are already here... that is who will house and feed them. This is America, we can handle it

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Now how about a post that expresses your point of view instead of trying to tell others what my intent was!

The attitude of the response is exactly what got the political forum shut down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rags123]

By the way, while much is denied illegal immigrants, this is direct from the National Law Center on the Affordable Health Care Act and what these illegal children for example are eligible for....might reflect why the influx...

"Remain eligible for emergency care under federal law.
Eligible for Emergency Medicaid if low-income.
Citizen or lawfully present children of undocumented parents are eligible:

To purchase from the state insurance exchange.
For premium tax credits and lower copayments.
For Medicaid or CHIP.

May seek nonemergency health services at community health centers or safety-net hospitals."

Affordable Care Act - National Immigration Law Center (http://www.nilc.org/immigrantshcr.html)

Listen, you empathy is admirable, but common sense has to rule or we are going to smother ourselves within and without our borders.

[Rags123]

My big complaint is all these illegals will get the money that we as American citizens have worked and paid to SS. It has happened before and our wonderful government has done absolutely nothing to stop. Sorry but I don't give a you know what about the people that come into this country without legal papers. Don't ever wonder why we will one day lose this country. It's been a great ride but soon the money motor will run dry because of our folks in Washington all of them. The more people to suck this country dry the quicker we become a socialistic country. But then this is just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions.

Opinions are what is needed....but to point out. Our government has responded to some degree on this situation...

" The White House is hitting back had at conservative critics of the Administration's handling of the recent influx of unaccompanied minor Central American illegal immigrants who have been flooding into South Texas, 1200 WOAI news reports.

In an off the record briefing with 1200 WOAI news, several White House officials stressed that the children are being 'processed for removal,' but are handled according to 'moral and legal agreements.'

"We are engaged in the appropriate care of these children who have arrived here without parents," one senior White House official told 1200 WOAI news. "It is also true that these children are in removal proceedings.'

Read more: White House: We'll Deport Illegal Immigrant Children (http://www.woai.com/articles/woai-local-news-sponsored-by-five-star-cleaners-119078/white-house-well-deport-illegal-immigrant-12443632/#ixzz34jsxSKg2)

From that article cited above...the following quote catches my eye...from a immigration attorney.

" Curtwright says he doubts that any of these children will actually be sent back to Central America."

Also to your point.....this is from two years ago so I assume it is quite higher now...

"A year ago, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) deputy director Kumar Kibble told Congress it costs about $12,500 to deport an undocumented immigrant.

However, a 2010 report by Center for American Progress and Rob Paral and Associates took a close look at all the budget appropriations for ICE and broke down the costs per person for each one of the four stages of deportation process: apprehension, detention, legal proceeding and transportation. The whopping cost of deportation per person that they came up with is $23,480. "

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/deporting-all-of-americas-illegal-immigrants-would-cost-a-whopping-285-billion-2012-1#ixzz34juOIedX

[blueash]

I was under the impression that the thread had to do with the lack of enforcement of EXISTING UNITED STATES LAW, and the strain of our border states. That, and nobody not only gets arrested, but they are allowed to stay.

If this is not considered current events, and if nobody cares, we really have problems.

Now those who find fault wit the sources, I suggest to you, it is news..it is being reported, and if any of those publications lied, you should call them on it...HERE.

I hope this is acceptable....

"Since October 1, 2013, according to the NY Times, a record 47,017 unaccompanied children have been apprehended at the southwest border, a 90% increase over the previous fiscal year, with at least 60,000 total expected by the end of the current fiscal year on September 30.

According to the Times, "Many say they are coming because they believe that the United States treats migrant children traveling alone and women with their children more leniently than adult illegal immigrants with no children." The Times confirms based on interviews with immigration officials and lawyers that there has in fact been a shift in U.S. policy."

Obama's immigration scandals: surge of illegals crossing border, deportable criminals released onto U.S. streets (http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/local/brandywine-to-broad/68811-obama-administration-faces-two-immigration-scandals-surge-of-illegals-crossing-border-and-release-of-deportable-criminal-aliens-onto-us-streets)

Note referencing NewYork Times.
From that same article....

"The other immigration scandal, as reported by CBS News and the Washington Times, is the disclosure that despite its stated policy of prioritizing the deportation of aliens with criminal convictions, the Obama administration has in fact released onto U.S. streets 36,007 deportable aliens with criminal convictions in 2013. Those aliens, with no right to remain in the U.S., included 193 homicide convictions, 426 sexual assault convictions, 303 kidnapping convictions, 1,075 aggravated assault convictions, and 1,160 stolen vehicle convictions.

The administration claims that some of the releases were required because the home countries of criminal aliens refuse to accept their own criminal citizens back. But the Obama administration refuses to apply diplomatic pressure on those countries by stopping the issuance of U.S. visas to their citizens, as previous administrations have done with success. And at least 25% of the convicted murderers who are deportable aliens, appear to have been released by the Obama administration on its own initiative."
The

There has been a steady stream of reports on the caliber of folks we are allowing to flaunt our laws, but not sure what news source might be acceptable.

These folks are not flooding your neighborhood as of yet. I am betting there might be a change of attitude if that were the case.

You may wish to actually read the NY Times article rather than a summary from the GOP candidate for Senate from Delaware. You will find his summary does not contain the nuance nor the whole story of what the NY Times article reports:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/04/world/americas/wave-of-minors-on-their-own-rush-to-cross-southwest-border.html?comments&_r=0#permid=11951535

And your report of criminals being released, again you haven't told the whole story, and the scary headline is not from the NY Times although your posting seemed to suggest it was (perhaps my reading error)

"the individuals described in the report were released under restrictions, such as GPS monitoring, telephone monitoring, supervision or surety bond...
The releases required by court decisions account for a disproportionate number of the serious crimes listed in the report. For example, mandatory releases account for over 75% of the homicides listed," the statement said. "Others, typically those with less serious offenses, were released as a discretionary matter after career law enforcement officers made a judgment regarding the priority of holding the individual, given ICE's resources, and prioritizing the detention and removal of individuals who pose a risk to public safety or national security"

I have no explanation for the less than 25% of homicides listed and hope there was correct due process and restrictions. Perhaps there was serious doubt about the validity of those convictions in their native lands

[Rags123]

You may wish to actually read the NY Times article rather than a summary from the GOP candidate for Senate from Delaware. You will find his summary does not contain the nuance nor the whole story of what the NY Times article reports:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/04/world/americas/wave-of-minors-on-their-own-rush-to-cross-southwest-border.html?comments&_r=0#permid=11951535

And your report of criminals being released, again you haven't told the whole story, and the scary headline is not from the NY Times although your posting seemed to suggest it was (perhaps my reading error)

"the individuals described in the report were released under restrictions, such as GPS monitoring, telephone monitoring, supervision or surety bond...
The releases required by court decisions account for a disproportionate number of the serious crimes listed in the report. For example, mandatory releases account for over 75% of the homicides listed," the statement said. "Others, typically those with less serious offenses, were released as a discretionary matter after career law enforcement officers made a judgment regarding the priority of holding the individual, given ICE's resources, and prioritizing the detention and removal of individuals who pose a risk to public safety or national security"

I have no explanation for the less than 25% of homicides listed and hope there was correct due process and restrictions. Perhaps there was serious doubt about the validity of those convictions in their native lands


I have no idea of how to respond. I am not citing anyones talking points...the news is the news. I am making nothing up...the news is the news. I am unable to satisfy your need for your sources......I cannot find anything that will say what you WANT it to say. Perhaps you can share from your reading and cite some links that will support you.

We are spending OUR money, no matter what, and I feel comfortable based on a lot of reading, that criminals are making there way into our country...and excuse the caps......ILLEGALLY....VIOLATING OUR LAWS.

I did address this directly to another user, but just to respond to one directly at me, which should not raise the eyebrows of any mediators. Done in the interest of discussion.

And nobody is enforcing those laws.

[blueash]

By the way, while much is denied illegal immigrants, this is direct from the National Law Center on the Affordable Health Care Act and what these illegal children for example are eligible for....might reflect why the influx...

"Remain eligible for emergency care under federal law.
Eligible for Emergency Medicaid if low-income.
Citizen or lawfully present children of undocumented parents are eligible:

To purchase from the state insurance exchange.
For premium tax credits and lower copayments.
For Medicaid or CHIP.

May seek nonemergency health services at community health centers or safety-net hospitals."


Affordable Care Act - National Immigration Law Center (http://www.nilc.org/immigrantshcr.html)

Listen, you empathy is admirable, but common sense has to rule or we are going to smother ourselves within and without our borders.

Good post. Now tell which of these provisions you believe should be removed. I will dangerously assume that you do not oppose the provision of health services to citizens and lawfully present children. The only nonemergency provision listed is your last sentence. I can tell you that the level of care at a community health center would get these kids immunized, checked for communicable diseases, screened for disabilities and have minor illnesses like strep throat and ear infections managed. These services have prior to the ACA been available at community health centers to the uninsured as they not only help the patient but protect the community's health. As a small point, are these children really "illegal children" I doubt the Immigration Law Center used that pejorative term. I doubt that children are risking their lives to travel through hardships difficult to imagine in the hope that they can get seen in a community center for their earache. Do you believe that health care really "might reflect why the influx?"

[Rags123]

Good post. Now tell which of these provisions you believe should be removed. I will dangerously assume that you do not oppose the provision of health services to citizens and lawfully present children. The only nonemergency provision listed is your last sentence. I can tell you that the level of care at a community health center would get these kids immunized, checked for communicable diseases, screened for disabilities and have minor illnesses like strep throat and ear infections managed. These services have prior to the ACA been available at community health centers to the uninsured as they not only help the patient but protect the community's health. As a small point, are these children really "illegal children" I doubt the Immigration Law Center used that pejorative term. I doubt that children are risking their lives to travel through hardships difficult to imagine in the hope that they can get seen in a community center for their earache. Do you believe that health care really "might reflect why the influx?"

I do not believe that the Affordable Health Care Act is the primary reason for the influx. I, obviously not well, was trying to illustrate the costs to OUR country and I think that these children ARE in fact covered by AFHC act in most situations....will check the Texas and Arizona papers for more on that but I think I am accurate. They will though, because they will never be deported...NEVER.

No, they are not fleeing here because of health care...they are here, IMHO for the most part...because they know there are NO consequences for their actions. That is number one.....they will remain here.

I cite and hope the link is satisfactory...

"nstead, the children are turned over to Department Health and Human Services supervision "within 72 hours of DHS taking them into custody," an official said.

Relatives living in the United States are searched for and contacted and the immigrant is given a court date. But very few actually show up and the children often become one of the millions of undocumented immigrants."

Influx of immigrant children expected to last through summer - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/10/politics/children-immigrant-crossings/)

Now they just wait for the new immigration policy in this country. The election in Virginia was based on fear of the proposals being floated around being passed. These folks know what the proposals are for amnesty and want to share in it.

In the meantime, the DACA program was just recently inacted and it gives them now FOUR years of safety in this country. That is why they are coming here.


PS...Please read the link I supplied on the AFHC act and how it applies. I think you took it out of context or perhaps I did not explain it well enough.

[CFrance]

What is your take on this? It is very troubling. My ancestors had to come in through channels. It isn't the present administration that is doing this, the last couple have stopped enforcing laws on immigration. Both sides of the aisle.
It actually goes back to George Bush Sr. and the Chinese. Read the book Snakehead, which is about Sister Ping (who recently died in prison) and the human smuggling of illegals into our country. Note I said human smuggling, not human trafficing. It's a fascinating, scary book.

[Rags123]

It actually goes back to George Bush Sr. and the Chinese. Read the book Snakehead, which is about Sister Ping (who recently died in prison) and the human smuggling of illegals into our country. Note I said human smuggling, not human trafficing. It's a fascinating, scary book.


Could you please give more information on this !!

I am famaliar with the Immigration law that Bush Sr signed into law but it was all about LEGAL immigrants and increased the number acceptable.

PLEASE....tell me how President Bush Sr had anything to do with illegal immigrants ?

Not defending him as I do not know what to defend him on, but the illegal traffic in the last two years just does not fit with what he did with immigration.

Thanks for any links or information as this is a first and I try to stay up on this kind of stuff :)


PS.....did some of my own research and assume you are speaking of the presidential action taken by Bush to assist those Chinese being harrangued about the family planning issue and that did in fact open the doors for CHINESE immigrants.

I thank you very much for the information, but not sure how it applies to the current events. BUT again, I love to learn and this is worth more reading

[CFrance]

Could you please give more information on this !!

I am famaliar with the Immigration law that Bush Sr signed into law but it was all about LEGAL immigrants and increased the number acceptable.

PLEASE....tell me how President Bush Sr had anything to do with illegal immigrants ?

Not defending him as I do not know what to defend him on, but the illegal traffic in the last two years just does not fit with what he did with immigration.

Thanks for any links or information as this is a first and I try to stay up on this kind of stuff :)


PS.....did some of my own research and assume you are speaking of the presidential action taken by Bush to assist those Chinese being harrangued about the family planning issue and that did in fact open the doors for CHINESE immigrants.

I thank you very much for the information, but not sure how it applies to the current events. BUT again, I love to learn and this is worth more reading

You are partially right about it only partially touching the topic of this thread. But the situation was very intricate, and the book touched on this thread's topic. I could not describe it all here without running out of the allotted word count. It sounds like you are interested in this subject, and I strongly suggest you read the book The Snakehead: An Epic Tale of the Chinatown Underworld and the American Dream by Patrick Radden Keefe (Jul 27, 2010). If you are at all interested in this subject, you won't be able to put this book down.

There is a bit more to why Bush Sr. did what he did. The book also goes into the politics behind immigrants of all countries, and that's mainly why I brought it up in this thread.

Amazon has a description here Amazon.com: The Snakehead: An Epic Tale of the Chinatown Underworld and the American Dream (9780307279279): Patrick Radden Keefe: Books (http://tinyurl.com/nhqgavn)

[Rags123]

You are partially right about it only partially touching the topic of this thread. But the situation was very intricate, and the book touched on this thread's topic. I could not describe it all here without running out of the allotted word count. It sounds like you are interested in this subject, and I strongly suggest you read the book The Snakehead: An Epic Tale of the Chinatown Underworld and the American Dream by Patrick Radden Keefe (Jul 27, 2010). If you are at all interested in this subject, you won't be able to put this book down.

There is a bit more to why Bush Sr. did what he did. The book also goes into the politics behind immigrants of all countries, and that's mainly why I brought it up in this thread.

Amazon has a description here Amazon.com: The Snakehead: An Epic Tale of the Chinatown Underworld and the American Dream (9780307279279): Patrick Radden Keefe: Books (http://tinyurl.com/nhqgavn)

Yes I am very interested in this, and will read this book, and I thank you for this information.

This is a subject that should be of vital interest for everyone in this country and should not be politicized, but it is right now. Our country is now being taken advantage of in a serious manner. The election in Virginia tells you the import.

We cannot allow this debate to get out of control, and the sooner an OPEN debate begins, the better.

Thanks again for a thought provoking book, which I assure you I WILL read.

[denise adams]

Alright, let me ask a simple question to those of you who apparently don't see much of a problem with the current immigration situation.........
Whats your opinion on what should be done?
At poker the other night, someone said "why do we always hear about SS running out of money but you never hear about welfare running out of money?

[denise adams]

Wow, I forgot one other important comment...........
We went to see "The Immigrant" at Brownwood movie house yesterday. That immigration process worked then, why not now? Not everyone was allowed into this country.

[chachacha]

my question for days has been, why don't we send the national guard to prevent entry of these people or at least to take the burden of processing them away from the border patrol, so they can stop them??? what is the national guard for if not for this?

[Tennisnut]

So let me see if I clearly understand your complaint. Is it that minors with gang tattoos are being allowed into this country because that is the theme of the article you linked from the Washington times? Or is this that brown people have lots of children and will reproduce to the point that gringos no longer have the voting clout we now enjoy, which is certainly the point of your last paragraph. You do know that when they let the Irish in people screamed, and the Italians, and of course the Jews. And we had years of laws to relegate those "Orientals" to second class citizenship. They couldn't even be lawyers, just cheap labor. And all those Cubans that Castro sent our way only built the economy of Miami to a world class city level. The answer is that if their parents are already here... that is who will house and feed them. This is America, we can handle it

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Blueash, I think you have really nailed it! Thank you saying it so succinctly!

[NoMoSno]

Apparently, central Florida is a favored spot to bring the illegal aliens to.

Apopka (http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/apopkas-hope-community-center-sees-influx-child-im/ngLGs/)

[adeleb]

Sponsorship for illegal ( undocumented..sorry That was not PC) individuals/ families is the answer.

The volunteer sponsor would be responsible for medical, housing and education as well as day to day living expenses as well as for any liability should there be an accident or a crime committed.
Sponsor would be liable for any non payment of taxes on income earned.
Would be nice if sponsor paid for job seeking assistance and ESL classes.

How many of those individuals or groups so vocal on undocumented immigrant rights would step up ?
It's easy when your spend everyone's money. Not so easy when it's your own money.

[blueash]

Now how about a post that expresses your point of view instead of trying to tell others what my intent was!

The attitude of the response is exactly what got the political forum shut down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


In 1900 the US population was about 85 million. In the next 15 years there were about 15 million immigrants admitted to our nation, or one new immigrant for every 6 already here. The same ratio would mean 50 million immigrants now. And most who came were poor, unwashed certainly not English speaking. Almost all were southern and eastern Europeans, not WASPs. They were admitted through our open borders and produced the greatest generation of Americans, the booming middle class. I thought my post made my opinion clear. I agree with Emma Lazarus.

Immigration in The 1920s (http://www.shmoop.com/1920s/immigration.html)

[blueash]

PS...Please read the link I supplied on the AFHC act and how it applies. I think you took it out of context or perhaps I did not explain it well enough.

I did read your link. You didn't list all the rules for undocumented immigrants so I will cut and paste for everyone to see:

UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS

No federal coverage.
•Not allowed to purchase private health insurance at full cost in state insurance exchange(s).
•Not eligible for premium tax credits or lower copayments.
•Exempt from individual mandate.
•Not eligible for Medicare, nonemergency Medicaid, or CHIP.
•Remain eligible for emergency care under federal law.
•Eligible for Emergency Medicaid if low-income.
•Citizen or lawfully present children of undocumented parents are eligible:
◦To purchase from the state insurance exchange.
◦For premium tax credits and lower copayments.
◦For Medicaid or CHIP.
•May seek nonemergency health services at community health centers or safety-net hospitals.


These are hardly generous provisions as they only provide for emergency care, you wouldn't want a child hit by a car to not get care would you? And minimal additional services at community health centers and specific public safety net hospitals. What you see as incentivizing undocumented immigration perhaps because of some animus about the ACA, in fact gives these children minimal health care and in some cases less ability to access the health care system than they had prior to the ACA. If you wish to further understand the impact on undocumented children read this concentrating on the "Unauthorized Immigrant" section:

Coverage Implications and Issues for Immigrant Families: ASPE Issue Brief (http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/11/ImmigrantAccess/Coverage/ib.shtml)

[buggyone]

my question for days has been, why don't we send the national guard to prevent entry of these people or at least to take the burden of processing them away from the border patrol, so they can stop them??? what is the national guard for if not for this?

Why not give M-60 machine guns to the National Guard and let them open fire on the immigrants as they enter the Rio Grande to cross over?

...and people wonder why the Hispanics vote the way they do.

[Topspinmo]

NO PASSPORT, NO birth certificate, no ID, DEPORT. :BigApplause:Get in line like the legal immigration has be done for centuries which IS LEGAL. :BigApplause: LEGAL seems to be the Oxymoron here.:22yikes: We need to Enact MEXICO Immigration laws Which I wonder how they migrate through Mexico with such 3rd world immigration laws (guess they have been trained by the present US Fed. government that's suppose to enforce immigration laws. :BigApplause:Heck maybe in few years when the seize control they will be deporting American Citizen's. :D

Why not give M-60 machine guns" naa, the AA-12 will do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaNvIviMeNg



That was a JOKE Buggy I know how you like guns in the hands of idiots

[Barefoot]

I don't know anything about Mexican immigration.

My husband and I are Canadians citizens.
My mother was born in the United States.
We own a home in The Villages.
We pay property taxes and amenity fees all year long.
When we travel to Florida, we buy medical insurance in Canada which covers us while we travel.
Canadian snowbirds cost the USA nothing and add dollars to the economy.

As Canadians, we are limited to 182 days in a calendar year.
The USA government will not allow us to stay longer.
We would love to spend more time in the USA, but we are not allowed to.
There is no such thing as a "retiree visa".
If we outstay our welcome, there is a possibility that we will be denied
entry to the US for the next five years.
When we are in the USA, we are considered "resident aliens".

[Topspinmo]

Bare I was jokingly addressing illegal immigration and buggy outrageous comment about machine guns. NOBODY has problems with legal immigration or travel. Beside it obvious you could just stay all year and nothing would be done on the US of a side anyway. You would be SHOCKED to know how Mexico handles illegal immigration into there country and they ramble we are the bad hombres'.

[Bay Kid]

I don't know anything about Mexican immigration.

My husband and I are Canadians citizens.
My mother was born in the United States.
We own a home in The Villages.
We pay property taxes and amenity fees all year long.
When we travel to Florida, we buy medical insurance in Canada which covers us while we travel.
Canadian snowbirds cost the USA nothing and add dollars to the economy.

As Canadians, we are limited to 182 days in a calendar year.
The USA government will not allow us to stay longer.
We would love to spend more time in the USA, but we are not allowed to.
There is no such thing as a "retiree visa".
If we outstay our welcome, there is a possibility that we will be denied
entry to the US for the next five years.
When we are in the USA, we are considered "resident aliens".

Not fair, but that is what America is becoming.

[De Lis]

I simply can not believe that no one from either party has stepped up to date and stated that this monsoon of people has to stop! It will only get worse and both sides are digging in their heels. Such smart people we have elected - when is the next election so we can begin again with new faces? This is nuts!

[gomoho]

I don't know anything about Mexican immigration..

As Canadians, we are limited to 182 days in a calendar year.
The USA government will not allow us to stay longer.
We would love to spend more time in the USA, but we are not allowed to.
There is no such thing as a "retiree visa".
If we outstay our welcome, there is a possibility that we will be denied
entry to the US for the next five years.
When we are in the USA, we are considered "resident aliens".

Bare - and thank you and our other Canadian friends for obeying our laws. My daughter married a Jamaican last July and they are still paying $$$ and working towards bringing him to the US. The legal way to enter this country is very difficult. She was actually told by immigration if he could get in the country and marry you in the US he could stay. Screwed up laws by screwed up politicians.

Many people are in the same situation and don't understand why the laws aren't enforced if you come from south of our border.

[De Lis]

Gomoho: Your family is obeying the law, which is exactly what people are supposed to do. Best wishes to both in this long process; and yes, they could have come over on a Fiance Visa and married within 90 days, then started the process.
Bare: As long as your mother was an American, you can claim your rights and apply for an American passport...Dual citizenship. Maybe that could help to solve your problem a bit.
Again, the time for both parties to begin the talking was Yesterday, because now there isn't a moment to spare - it is becoming worse and with no end in sight. Sick of this Congress!

[janmcn]

Gomoho: Your family is obeying the law, which is exactly what people are supposed to do. Best wishes to both in this long process; and yes, they could have come over on a Fiance Visa and married within 90 days, then started the process.
Bare: As long as your mother was an American, you can claim your rights and apply for an American passport...Dual citizenship. Maybe that could help to solve your problem a bit.
Again, the time for both parties to begin the talking was Yesterday, because now there isn't a moment to spare - it is becoming worse and with no end in sight. Sick of this Congress!


Absolutely agree. The US Senate passed a bi-partisan comprehensive immigration reform law over a year ago, but the house refuses to bring it up for a vote. The votes are there to pass it, but no vote will be taken.

In answer to Chachacha's question about using the national guard, immigration is run by the federal government and the national guard is run by the states. Enforcement of immigration laws are provided by various federal agencies, ICE, ATF, homeland security, etc.

[billethkid]

Bare - and thank you and our other Canadian friends for obeying our laws. My daughter married a Jamaican last July and they are still paying $$$ and working towards bringing him to the US. The legal way to enter this country is very difficult. She was actually told by immigration if he could get in the country and marry you in the US he could stay. Screwed up laws by screwed up politicians.

Many people are in the same situation and don't understand why the laws aren't enforced if you come from south of our border.

I have taken the liberty of highlighting a small portion from gomoho's post that succinctly states the intent of my original post. There has been, for the most part, good discussion. However the main question remains unanswered and as yet not addressed.....WHY?

I think the examples of our Canadian friends and neighbors, who actually add revenues to our economy are limited by laws which are apparently enforced. And those from South of our borders, most of which will need economic/health support have a free pass. The same laws for both borders. The same laws as a matter of fact for all our borders and regardless what country from.

WHY????? The overt, accepted, assisted, defended illegal entry ALLOWED from our Southern border?

As one post above intimated....just try to enter Mexico illegally and see where one winds up!!!!!

[ilovetv]

Food for thought below. Please do not turn it into a partisan fight that gets this thread shut down. People want to discuss this massive influx of youth and to learn more of all aspects of the problem.

"The Cloward–Piven strategy is a political strategy outlined in 1966 by American sociologists and political activists Richard Cloward and Frances Fox Piven that called for overloading the U.S. public welfare system in order to precipitate a crisis that would lead to a replacement of the welfare system with a national system of "a guaranteed annual income and thus an end to poverty".

Cloward and Piven were a married couple who were both professors at the Columbia University School of Social Work. The strategy was formulated in a May 1966 article in the liberal[1] magazine The Nation titled "The Weight of the Poor: A Strategy to End Poverty".[2]

The two stated that many Americans who were eligible for welfare were not receiving benefits, and that a welfare enrollment drive would strain local budgets, precipitating a crisis at the state and local levels that would be a wake-up call for the federal government.....

They wrote:

The ultimate objective of this strategy—to wipe out poverty by establishing a guaranteed annual income—will be questioned by some. Because the ideal of individual social and economic mobility has deep roots, even activists seem reluctant to call for national programs to eliminate poverty by the outright redistribution of income.”

Michael Reisch and Janice Andrews wrote that Cloward and Piven "proposed to create a crisis in the current welfare system – by exploiting the gap between welfare law and practice – that would ultimately bring about its collapse and replace it with a system of guaranteed annual income.

They hoped to accomplish this end by informing the poor of their rights to welfare assistance, encouraging them to apply for benefits and, in effect, overloading an already overburdened bureaucracy.......

Cloward (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward–Piven_strategy)

[janmcn]

Call your congressman and tell him to vote on the massive bipartisan border security bill passed by the senate.

[CFrance]

Call your congressman and tell him to vote on the massive bipartisan border security bill passed by the senate.
On one of those Sunday tv shows my husband the political science major watches, they said the chances for that bill even being voted on are nil. The reasons are too po****cal to discuss here.

[JPC55]

For once lets take care of OUR OWN and not the world problems.. Detroit is bankrupt, cities and schools are in bad shape, etc ,etc.. We spend more time and money OUTSIDE the U.S then taking care of OUR own. Oh and yes , we are in the RED.. forgot! Lets just open the flood gates.. Do it legally.

[Rags123]

Deleted

[denise adams]

So let me see if I correctly understand your post. Newspapers in Central America which may or may not be ALL CAPS government controlled, because all caps makes it really scary, are encouraging the young people in their nation to go to the US for better economic opportunity. You believe that somebody here should be telling those newspapers to stop encouraging emigration to the US? And you of course believe in freedom of the press but think our government should tell their government to suppress their press, even if the advise is perfectly reasonable leaving out the "easy life courtesy of the welcoming Obama administration" which I doubt any newspaper ever printed except the Murdoch owned NY Post. The article in fact says that children are temporarily detained if they cross the border while family already in the US is located. A few weeks in detention where they are treated humanely hardly qualifies as an "easy life" You do understand the phrase "during their stay" means while they are in a federal holding camp?
BlueAsh
Here's my point to ponder
How long can we allow endless immigration without severely damaging the future for our children? Don't we ever reach a point where there's too many people coming in the country? Can we just continue to print more money with nothing to back up that new money?
Just asking, not questioning your opinion(s)

[janmcn]

BlueAsh
Here's my point to ponder
How long can we allow endless immigration without severely damaging the future for our children? Don't we ever reach a point where there's too many people coming in the country? Can we just continue to print more money with nothing to back up that new money?
Just asking, not questioning your opinion(s)


It's really interesting how many people will say we don't have money for immigration or many other things, but these are many of the same people that were calling for more military action this past week. Where do they think the money for military action will come from?

[billethkid]

Good dialogue with varied opinions, HOWEVER not much in the way of commentary on WHY we are allowing an open gate to anybody that wants to come in from South of the border.

Why is it being allowed?

[buggyone]

Good dialogue with varied opinions, HOWEVER not much in the way of commentary on WHY we are allowing an open gate to anybody that wants to come in from South of the border.

Why is it being allowed?

How about humanitarian reasons? Listen to what your pastor says at his Sunday sermons. Listen to the liturgy you repeat on Sunday morning.