Death with dignity

[Chi-Town]

I'm afraid that we have all seen a loved one go painfully to the point that we wouldn't let our pet suffer like that. This subject has been in the news lately and this link is quite interesting in addressing it.

Brittany Maynard: My right to death with dignity at 29 - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/07/opinion/maynard-assisted-suicide-cancer-dignity/index.html)

[graciegirl]

This will be argued because many have religious beliefs that say they cannot take a life, even their own.

You may be able to logically present it so many understand it and agree with it being an option but do not expect complete agreement.

I don't know how I feel about it. I would never want Sweetie to suffer but I wouldn't want ever to leave my Helene.

I wish people wouldn't talk about depressing things.

I am going to leave the room, I can't handle a lot of stuff these days.

[tippyclubb]

Tom & I have had this conversation many times. We have a plan. Neither on of us want to spend the rest of our days in a nursing home, or in pain, or in a vegetarian state. I understand many will not agree with our plan, but it's not for others to decide what is best for us. When and if the time comes we are ready for it.

[billethkid]

I do not particularly care for the title of death with dignity.

This is the most personal of decisions that will ever be made in one's lifetime. There is no right or wrong and no room for any of us to pass judgement or even offer an opposing opinion....NONE.

There is no nursing home in our future. Nursing care will be in our home done by one or the other of us and if outside assistance is needed then they will be brought in to help. If indeed hospice is needed it will be at home.
We both just feel that our lives and family interactions our entire lives has been "home" (ours or another family member's). At those ending of life days to have family running in and out of hospitals or hospice is just too much stress on everybody. At home it is intended to be as normal as possible.

Of course we have no idea what a worser (Intended mispell) scenario might be and we will deal with it when confronted. Until then we are planning to depart with dignity in our own home!

To each his own. The above is ours!

[Madelaine Amee]

Tom & I have had this conversation many times. We have a plan. Neither on of us want to spend the rest of our days in a nursing home, or in pain, or in a vegetarian state. I understand many will not agree with our plan, but it's not for others to decide what is best for us. When and if the time comes we are ready for it.

My beloved relative had a plan and now she has dementia so the plan is out the window and she has no control of her life.

[CFrance]

I do not particularly care for the title of death with dignity.

This is the most personal of decisions that will ever be made in one's lifetime. There is no right or wrong and no room for any of us to pass judgement or even offer an opposing opinion....NONE.

There is no nursing home in our future. Nursing care will be in our home done by one or the other of us and if outside assistance is needed then they will be brought in to help. If indeed hospice is needed it will be at home.
We both just feel that our lives and family interactions our entire lives has been "home" (ours or another family member's). At those ending of life days to have family running in and out of hospitals or hospice is just too much stress on everybody. At home it is intended to be as normal as possible.

Of course we have no idea what a worser (Intended mispell) scenario might be and we will deal with it when confronted. Until then we are planning to depart with dignity in our own home!

To each his own. The above is ours!

I understand your intentions, BTK. In Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, when my brother was dying of cancer, my SIL made a promise to him that he would die at home. However, at one point hospice told her they would not care for him in their home any longer if he could not sit up in bed. She is slight, and he was 6'4. At one point, she placed a panic call to her sister and BIL, who drove four hours from Pittsburgh. Her sister's husband got my brother into a sitting position before hospice arrived. That turned out to be their last visit.

I do not know what the "rules" are in FL. Please have a plan.

[OBXNana]

I understand your intentions, BTK. In Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, when my brother was dying of cancer, my SIL made a promise to him that he would die at home. However, at one point hospice told her they would not care for him in their home any longer if he could not sit up in bed. She is slight, and he was 6'4. At one point, she placed a panic call to her sister and BIL, who drove four hours from Pittsburgh. Her sister's husband got my brother into a sitting position before hospice arrived. That turned out to be their last visit.

I do not know what the "rules" are in FL. Please have a plan.

CFrance you hit a nerve. We are in the same area as your brother lived. We had a similar experience. What we learned, after the fact, not all Hospice is the same. We learned 4 years ago some Hospice is for profit and some are non-profit. This may only be in Central PA. The difference between the two is great and may have changed in the last 4 years. You are so correct to have a plan made at a time when you are of sound mind and body.

Death is part of the life cycle. You should prepare for this in the same way you prepare for a vacation to beach. You educate yourself, recognize it is your option, and share with those close to you.

[zonerboy]

I am presently in Phoenix visiting my 93 year old Mom. She lives in a very expensive tiered assisted living facility in her own 1 bedroom apartment (no kitchen, she goes to the central dining room for very nice meals). Her husband (my dad) died 6 years ago and almost all her friends have also passed on. She has no will to live and wishes she could just "go to heaven". She does not participate in any activities available for residents at her facility such as exercise classes, games, crafts, movies, visiting musicians who lead sing-a-longs, field trips, etc. says it's too much trouble. So she sits in her chair all day with the TV on. Not certain if she watches it or not. Her severe diabetic neuropathy has caused her to have complete loss of control of her bladder, and only partial bowel control, so it is difficult to take her out any where. (I have a sister and two brothers living in Phoenix who try to help her)
She had heart surgery (double valve replacement, coronary bypass, plus pacemaker) at age 86, and now wishes she hadn't had it because she says she'd be dead and on heaven by now.
So what's the solution for situations such as this?? Seems to be getting more common as we age.
BTW, she is on anti-depressants. Discussion would be appreciated.

[Madelaine Amee]

I am presently in Phoenix visiting my 93 year old Mom. She lives in a very expensive tiered assisted living facility in her own 1 bedroom apartment (no kitchen, she goes to the central dining room for very nice meals). Her husband (my dad) died 6 years ago and almost all her friends have also passed on. She has no will to live and wishes she could just "go to heaven". She does not participate in any activities available for residents at her facility such as exercise classes, games, crafts, movies, visiting musicians who lead sing-a-longs, field trips, etc. says it's too much trouble. So she sits in her chair all day with the TV on. Not certain if she watches it or not. Her severe diabetic neuropathy has caused her to have complete loss of control of her bladder, and only partial bowel control, so it is difficult to take her out any where. (I have a sister and two brothers living in Phoenix who try to help her)
She had heart surgery (double valve replacement, coronary bypass, plus pacemaker) at age 86, and now wishes she hadn't had it because she says she'd be dead and on heaven by now.
So what's the solution for situations such as this?? Seems to be getting more common as we age.
BTW, she is on anti-depressants. Discussion would be appreciated.

I sometimes think that the medical industry has no compassion, and I also wonder if they perform operations on people of this age almost using them as a guinea pig. I hope I am wrong, but whatever happened to keeping someone comfortable with medication and letting them drift away with dignity. We have seen many of our friends who are advanced in age go through horrific surgeries and chemo to give the patient, what, maybe another year or two. I can clearly remember a very good friend of ours who was diagnosed with lung cancer and given about six months to live, he was offered the choice of chemo or medication to keep him comfortable. He actually lived four years and they were good years, he did not have a year of extremely strong chemo treatment which would have made him very sick, but he played golf, they traveled, they came to Florida in the winter and lived back north in the summer. We watched him gradually fade away, losing a lot of weight, but he was never, ever, in pain and when he finally passed away his wife had no regrets.

[CFrance]

I am presently in Phoenix visiting my 93 year old Mom. She lives in a very expensive tiered assisted living facility in her own 1 bedroom apartment (no kitchen, she goes to the central dining room for very nice meals). Her husband (my dad) died 6 years ago and almost all her friends have also passed on. She has no will to live and wishes she could just "go to heaven". She does not participate in any activities available for residents at her facility such as exercise classes, games, crafts, movies, visiting musicians who lead sing-a-longs, field trips, etc. says it's too much trouble. So she sits in her chair all day with the TV on. Not certain if she watches it or not. Her severe diabetic neuropathy has caused her to have complete loss of control of her bladder, and only partial bowel control, so it is difficult to take her out any where. (I have a sister and two brothers living in Phoenix who try to help her)
She had heart surgery (double valve replacement, coronary bypass, plus pacemaker) at age 86, and now wishes she hadn't had it because she says she'd be dead and on heaven by now.
So what's the solution for situations such as this?? Seems to be getting more common as we age.
BTW, she is on anti-depressants. Discussion would be appreciated.

It's hard to discuss this, zonerboy, except to offer condolences or empathy. When my SIL was driving my brother to chemo--mainly done at that point just to alleviate his horrible bone pain--she began questioning her Catholic teachings about suicide and wished she could bring herself to run the car over the riverbank. (She couldn't). My grandmother, widowed, impoverished and provided for by her children, deaf and ailing for 20+ years! cried and cried to be taken by God, yet she lived to be 96.

Who could bring himself to end the life of another? We have taken the DNR decision out of our sons' hands as they have stated they will never be able to let go of us. Perhaps that would change if they saw us suffering.

There is an arresting book written by an investigative journalist about what happened at a hospital in New Orleans after Katrina, where at least one doctor and a few other medical professionals euthanized some patients as they found their potential rescue to be difficult or potentially impossible. If I google it to get the name, I will lose everything I have just written on this stupid iPad. But I will find it for you if you want. You might be interested from a medical standpoint as well.

[sunnyatlast]

The young woman in the news is making a completely personal decision….herself.

Things like this get murky when relatives or caretaker friends start to think the person's life is not worth living or that the suffering is too much for that person.

The relatives or loved ones might not say it, but they're thinking it and the person can perceive it and some come to the conclusion they should kill themselves so as not to be a burden to the family/caretakers, or even the public taxpayer funding the care.

Nations that have assisted suicide legalized have had problems with mentally retarded, disabled, elderly or chronic-disease patients wanting to commit suicide because society thinks they are not worth anything.

Please, please make an end-of-life plan so that others do not have to decide and so that others don't get into a position of deciding you're not worth keeping around, or giving you the perception you're not worth keeping around.

An added note: The hospice here in The Villages (run by Cornerstone in various locations) is not just for Villagers, and anyone can be in hospice care in the TV facility, regardless of ability to pay. The care and peaceful journey is superb.

Also, do not totally rule out hospice IN the facility instead of at home all the way till death. Sometimes the spouse gets debilitated and driven into the ground, trying 24/7 to cope with crazy, and even dangerous behavior of a cancer patient whose pain is literally driving them mad. Madness is not what hospice care and end of life is supposed to be. Be willing to go into the facility if the process is killing/driving mad your spouse at the end, too.

[rubicon]

Here we are. We express a hope to live a long life but forget there are often trade offs. So what we really are saying we want to live a long quality life.

But we don't get to choose. So we must prepare with health directives, etc.

My concern here is not about what I will experience but what my family will and the costs associated with attempts at extending my life. What a dilemma

[OBXNana]

I am presently in Phoenix visiting my 93 year old Mom. She lives in a very expensive tiered assisted living facility in her own 1 bedroom apartment (no kitchen, she goes to the central dining room for very nice meals). Her husband (my dad) died 6 years ago and almost all her friends have also passed on. She has no will to live and wishes she could just "go to heaven". She does not participate in any activities available for residents at her facility such as exercise classes, games, crafts, movies, visiting musicians who lead sing-a-longs, field trips, etc. says it's too much trouble. So she sits in her chair all day with the TV on. Not certain if she watches it or not. Her severe diabetic neuropathy has caused her to have complete loss of control of her bladder, and only partial bowel control, so it is difficult to take her out any where. (I have a sister and two brothers living in Phoenix who try to help her)
She had heart surgery (double valve replacement, coronary bypass, plus pacemaker) at age 86, and now wishes she hadn't had it because she says she'd be dead and on heaven by now.
So what's the solution for situations such as this?? Seems to be getting more common as we age.
BTW, she is on anti-depressants. Discussion would be appreciated.


Does your mother have a Do Not Resuscitate order? Have you spoken to the facility to find out if this will be honored? Prolonging life may not be what she wants or maybe she wants as much done as possible until she takes her final breath.

My opinion, and what I would hope my children would do, if of sound mind, to allow your Mom to live out her final days the way she wishes. Sometimes we try to have a loved one do what we feel they should be doing or what we think we would want to do. Have you spoken with your Mom to see if she would like to attend bingo or would prefer staying in her comfortable chair, in her room, where she has found her comfort zone? Does she go out for meals? If unable, is the facility monitoring that her meals are being brought to her?

I feel for you and your siblings. Enjoy the time with your Mom.

[Bizdoc]

I believe that this is an intensely personal decision which belongs to the person, his/her spouse, doctor and spiritual advisor. Everyone else should stay out of the decision, especially the government and "do-gooders". Your spiritual advisor (if they are doing their job) can help you understand what your traditions and beliefs have to say.

You should make sure that your advance medical directives/living will is very clear and direct about your wishes. You also need to have a full and frank discussion with the folks who are listed on your medical power of attorney and (well before any decisions have to be made) with your doctor. Ask each one directly if they understand what what you want. If they don't agree, take them off of your list. Don't blame them - no matter what your wishes are, they are a terrible burden on them.

I have been having to make all of my parents' medical decisions for the past year+. It helps (but doesn't take away the tears) that the three of discussed what they wanted before aliens stole their brains. It also helps that my college room mate and I can still call each other and have a good cry when we need it.

[CFrance]

Does your mother have a Do Not Resuscitate order? Have you spoken to the facility to find out if this will be honored? Prolonging life may not be what she wants or maybe she wants as much done as possible until she takes her final breath.

My opinion, and what I would hope my children would do, if of sound mind, to allow your Mom to live out her final days the way she wishes. Sometimes we try to have a loved one do what we feel they should be doing or what we think we would want to do. Have you spoken with your Mom to see if she would like to attend bingo or would prefer staying in her comfortable chair, in her room, where she has found her comfort zone? Does she go out for meals? If unable, is the facility monitoring that her meals are being brought to her?

I feel for you and your siblings. Enjoy the time with your Mom.

I think prolonging life is definitely not what zonerboy's mom wants. I think he is pondering the dilemma of a loved one's wish to die.

[rubicon]

Clearly one creates a moral dilemma for their spouse and/or family by asking them to pull the plug that would leave them guilt ridden no matter what decision they make.

Beside it clearly is a better choice to leave such request in the hands of experts who know the how's and when's of this request and even then they can error.

There is nothing dignified about death but there is about how effectively we deal with it at the time

We had a guy in our town who would drive around all night long because he was afraid he would die in his sleep....and indeed that is exactly how he died. He was one of the lucky ones.

My best friend,age 31 at the time who was as close to me as my brother committed suicide with a bullet to the head. He was in such emotional pain. I mourn for him to this day I keep repeating he had other choices....but what do you do when you don't have other choices?

[Sandtrap328]

I am out of The Villages for a few days right now. I will be attending a "celebration of life" for a friend I have known around 40 years.

He was diagnosed with prostate cancer ( and did not tell anyone) a few months ago. He decided that treatment would be something he could not do. He jumped off a tall parking garage to his death a few weeks ago.

This weekend will help me with closure, I hope, as other friends and co-workers remember David in a celebration of life.

[dbussone]

I am out of The Villages for a few days right now. I will be attending a "celebration of life" for a friend I have known around 40 years.



He was diagnosed with prostate cancer ( and did not tell anyone) a few months ago. He decided that treatment would be something he could not do. He jumped off a tall parking garage to his death a few weeks ago.



This weekend will help me with closure, I hope, as other friends and co-workers remember David in a celebration of life.


Bless you and him. I'm sorry for your loss.

I'm a David who was diagnosed with prostate cancer 18 months ago. I've been fortunate, had great treatment here in TV, and am a survivor. I wish your friend was as fortunate.

Blessings and prayers.

[CFrance]

Bless you and him. I'm sorry for your loss.

I'm a David who was diagnosed with prostate cancer 18 months ago. I've been fortunate, had great treatment here in TV, and am a survivor. I wish your friend was as fortunate.

Blessings and prayers.
I am sorry for sand trap and his friend but happy for you, dbussone. We don't know the other David's full circumstances, but I would hope one would at least give treatment a fair chance.

[gomoho]

Bizoc - I like what you said. It really is no one else's business.

[zonerboy]

Thanks to those who replied. I know my Mom would not contemplate suicide. I feel very bad for her. She seems to have no joy in her life, but at the same time refuses our suggestions on how she might improve her situation.
I pray I do not end up in similar circumstances.
I agree that decisions about such matters are very personal, but input from outside sources cannot hurt.

[Walter123]

My Mother passed away very recently under hospice care at the Cornerstone
Hospice House. The beautiful way they treated her was beyond words. I don't know if there is any dignity in death but I know she looked peaceful and was not in pain. She was 93. RIP Mom.

[carol_piirto]

I think this is an incredible valuable discussion. We all wish for a graceful death at home but once you avail yourself of medical treatment, (some of it excellent, ) then you are part of the medical system. It takes strength, lucidity and planning to extricate yourself from it and create this comfortable death at home with Hospice care that we all want.

Signed, a 60 year old Villager who has had cancer twice

[Nipper]

This is truly Death with Dignity --- a choice we should all have.

Why Newlywed Brittany Maynard Is Ending Her Life in Three Weeks - NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/health/cancer/why-newlywed-brittany-maynard-ending-her-life-three-weeks-n221731)

Her final moment has been mapped. And it does not sound scary.

"I plan to be surrounded by my immediate family, which is my husband, and my mother and my stepfather and my best friend, who is also a physician," she says in the video.

“I will die upstairs in my bedroom that I share with my husband, with my mother and my husband by my side, and pass peacefully with some music I like in the background."

[rubicon]

When we were young approaching adulthood we had dreams and goals. when we married we had dreams and goals for our children and ourselves. a look back and some of us managed those dreams while others became entangled in that unknown called "destiny""misfortune"or sheer bad"luck"

But it is human to plan and to attempt to manage our lives and even those of us who had many of those entanglements continue to plan

We speak of large corporations as "too big to fail"and thus place them in a special category of regulation etc yet nature has created the ultimate "systematic risk" aimed at human beings

[Taltarzac725]

Euthanasia and Assisted Suicide - Pros And Cons - Argue, Opponents, Care, and Proponents - JRank Articles (http://law.jrank.org/pages/1096/Euthanasia-Assisted-Suicide-Pros-Cons.html)

This looks like a very tough issue. One thing, many checks and balances would be needed in case of government overreaching of authority, abuse, corruption, and just plain evil actions.

I also see it as a very personal choice but the government has to be brought in for many legal reasons.

I had the brother --Jim G., -- of my sister-in-law Laura G., kill himself in Virginia about twelve days ago. He was mentally ill and I guess he came to a place where he had no hope. My brother and sister-in-law did have to go identify the body, manage whatever belongings he had, and then hire a lawyer to deal with the leftovers of a life. They were all estranged so there are a lot of legal problems following his suicide. There's always a wake within the family pool of actions like Jim's suicide even if the person tries to lessen it. Laura G., will probably be always wondering if there had been anything she could have done to prevent this from happening.

I only met Jim G., at my brother and sister-in-law's wedding about 22 years ago. He spent many years in India as a transcendental meditation trainer/coach. Moved back to VA about five years ago and started to unravel with respect to mental stability over the past few years. I have never been to Virginia, so I never had a second chance to get to know Jim G.

[Bonnevie]

I am presently in Phoenix visiting my 93 year old Mom. She lives in a very expensive tiered assisted living facility in her own 1 bedroom apartment (no kitchen, she goes to the central dining room for very nice meals). Her husband (my dad) died 6 years ago and almost all her friends have also passed on. She has no will to live and wishes she could just "go to heaven". She does not participate in any activities available for residents at her facility such as exercise classes, games, crafts, movies, visiting musicians who lead sing-a-longs, field trips, etc. says it's too much trouble. So she sits in her chair all day with the TV on. Not certain if she watches it or not. Her severe diabetic neuropathy has caused her to have complete loss of control of her bladder, and only partial bowel control, so it is difficult to take her out any where. (I have a sister and two brothers living in Phoenix who try to help her)
She had heart surgery (double valve replacement, coronary bypass, plus pacemaker) at age 86, and now wishes she hadn't had it because she says she'd be dead and on heaven by now.
So what's the solution for situations such as this?? Seems to be getting more common as we age.
BTW, she is on anti-depressants. Discussion would be appreciated.

You could be describing my mother's last years. She also said she was ready to die. unfortunately, medicine has become too adept at keeping people living...no matter the quality of that living. My mother got fluid build up and was admitted to the hospital to have it drained. She was expected to make it through but her COPD caused her breathing to deteriorate and so she died in semi-private hospital room by drowning in her own secretions. Luckily, I was with her. I will say she fought to live (I think it's instinctual). I don't know if she were offered a way to go peacefully she would have taken it. If she knew how painful and indignant her end was to be, she might have.
Forget about Obamacare, what's bankrupting the country is how much money is spent on seniors with incurable conditions at the end of life. I believe patients should have a right to choose either aggressive treatment or just a palliative approach. Doctor's need to be more forthright about how much benefit a treatment provides versus quality of life and be safe from prosecution if they "don't do everything".

[sunnyatlast]

Here is an excellent paper on various physical and spiritual considerations with various types of euthanasia, by an experienced and empathetic pastor-theologian.

Even if one is not Christian or is agnostic, there are thought-provoking points explained and illustrated in it from the standpoint that knowledge is power.

Euthanasia and the word of God - Denison Forum on Truth and Culture (http://www.denisonforum.org/morality/23-euthanasia-and-the-word-of-god)

[Villages PL]

Thanks to those who replied. I know my Mom would not contemplate suicide. I feel very bad for her. She seems to have no joy in her life, but at the same time refuses our suggestions on how she might improve her situation.
I pray I do not end up in similar circumstances.
I agree that decisions about such matters are very personal, but input from outside sources cannot hurt.

Depression is not uncommon as people reach an advanced age. Isn't there a social worker who could look into her situation and possibly offer some suggestions?

[OBXNana]

Depression is not uncommon as people reach an advanced age. Isn't there a social worker who could look into her situation and possibly offer some suggestions?

Great idea. A geriatric specialist may have some ideas that don't involve a medication. They have the knack of talking to a person that your Mom may not feel comfortable discussing with her children. She's still your Mom and she will always want to protect and not be a burden.

As my mother told me before she became ill, whatever I would do would be the right thing because it would be done with her in mind and always with love.

[DruannB]

Thank you all. Your words have actually been a comfort to me. I have a friend who decided this week to not continue treatment for her cancer. She's 55. Instead, she wants to die "with dignity" she says. This has really torn me up. Reading all of your thoughts/comments makes me realize that she is very much entitled to choose her own route. I'm just being selfish. And because of your comments I also now know that I need "a plan." I thought a DNR was sufficient.

[Halibut]

I've always thought that, since we all die, being given a terminal diagnosis would be a gift. To know the end is near, to be able to prepare, make amends, say goodbye. My fear is not death but an unforeseen and sudden incapacitating illness with no way out.

I have a neurological disease that will not kill me but will slowly remove my ability to walk or take care of myself. My plan is to design my death on my own time. For me, it's the most pragmatic and painless solution as well as the kindest for my loved one.

[Chi-Town]

Brittany Maynard ended her life. She believed that death with dignity was her way.

[er9027]

she took her life today

[Bonanza]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Dr. Kevorkian. Not only do I believe that he performed a real service to those who wanted to die, but I believe it was his compassion that permitted him to help those people.

I believe laws should be changed regarding people who want to die. Making the decision is easy. However carrying out that decision is very difficult. If someone is serious about helping that person (as was Dr. Kevorkian), the laws need to be changed to permit it. I find it sad that the law stands in the way of this kind of thing.

[patfla06]

As we get older we talk about these topics a lot more.
(not fun but necessary!)

Taking one's life is a hard topic, especially with religious beliefs
making it hard to think of doing this.

I do think that speculating about "what if" is very different then
what you decide when you are terminally ill. Especially if you
are in terrible pain and are suffering.

None of us want to see our loved ones suffer.
It's hard to let go also.
We all want quality of life. But there are no easy answers.

God bless everyone in failing health and those with family members
or friends in this position.

[TheVillageChicken]

I have a plan and a reciprocal pact with my oldest friend to see that it is carried out.