EBOLA - So, do we really have nothing to worry about?

[CFrance]

I almost always agree with anything you say, C. And you well may be right on this one. I think the frustration for ME comes from a number of things here. I had no clue we didn't have a surgeon general and I had no clue who the old one was and really thought she was underqualified when I read her Curriculum Vitae.. Do you remember that guy from a previous administration with the beard telling us to stop smoking? I remember him, and I seem to remember that he was a very respected person in the medical community.

I know this. That some people do not know body parts even. They cannot tell their posterior from an excavation.

But...whoever is in charge is moving toooooooo slowly for me.

You are too funny! You should have been a journalist.

And I really, deep down inside, agree with you too. I'm very torn on this. But my poly-sci major husband informs me on such issues, and while he thinks it certainly would be better for this "Czar" to have a medical background, his communication and organizational skills are what's needed the most.

Does he have such skills? I don't know. But I do know from volunteer experience with SCORE and my SIL's job as private personal accountant that doctors have some of the worst management skills in terms of their personal lives and finances and are not necessarily qualified to be administrators.

One West African country is now free of Ebola. It's been 42 days. I am hopeful we can help wipe this out at the source. I prefer to look forward and not backward and keep my posterior off of a plane till it's over.:wave:

[kittygilchrist]

If you don't believe him then find 1 case of Ebola which was transmitted through the air.

Would you rather the CDC keep using a protocol that puts medical personnel in danger or change the protocol to reduce risk?

Is Ebola Airborne? Aerial Transmission Of The Virus Cannot Be (http://www.ibtimes.com/ebola-airborne-aerial-transmission-virus-cannot-be-excluded-1706857)

Monkey transmission in research 25 yrs ago...
Pigs, bats transmit.
And our baby soldiers in the guard are out there without hazmats.
Outrageous.

[cologal]

Here is what I want. Too much, too early,but the too early part is slipping away.

Here is the dilemma for me. At the critical time, WHEN a person begins shedding viruses, when he becomes contagious, when he may put his hand to his mouth and carry the saliva to a towel dispenser or a theatre seat, I want to have SOMEONE who completely understands when that happens and how that happens and protects all of us from it.

I know I am not the only mom who TRIED to keep one kid from infecting another. For me, I had one kid who was born with congenital heart malformations and when she was little the risk factor for surgery had not dropped to a level to be safe yet. We had to keep her alive until it did. When she got a cold, it became pneumonia and she was hospitalized and terrified, because that was BEFORE parents were allowed to stay with their hospitalized kids 24/7.

SO I used all of my intelligence in keeping Helene safe from her sister, Typhoid Mary, and it didn't work.

So I am have panic programmed into me about this whole issue, and I don't want a lawyer telling me how to feel.

That is the very nature of an airborne disease Gracie. But from all that I have read any patients with active Ebola are very very sick not likely to be out and about. Just think about Duncan's family who were with them him once he was rejected by the hospital, none of them came down with Ebola and cleared the 21 day waiting period. Now I hear that some are calling for doubling the waiting period to 42 days.

[gomoho]

If you don't believe him then find 1 case of Ebola which was transmitted through the air.

Would you rather the CDC keep using a protocol that puts medical personnel in danger or change the protocol to reduce risk?

Wasn't referring to transmission through air - am much more concerned about how he is making it up as he goes along. And I would rather he had enough sense to advise medical personnel before they were even exposed to an Ebola patient to suit up as he did when he visited Africa. One minute he says the initial protection was enough and then he says maybe not. Glad he came to that conclusion, but believe in his position he should have had foresight not hindsight.

[graciegirl]

I just wish they were the cream of the crop MEDICALLY, and not picked to make a political statement.

C. Everett Koop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._Everett_Koop)

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/about/previous/biobenjamin.html

[KathieI]

..................I prefer to look forward and not backward and keep my posterior off of a plane till it's over.:wave:

Yes, and I'm keeping my azz right here until I feel personally comfortable with this whole thing.

[jblum315]

Me too. I know it's probably foolish but if someone coughed or sneezed near me in an airport or on a plane I would probably pass out.

[graciegirl]

Me too. I know it's probably foolish but if someone coughed or sneezed near me in an airport or on a plane I would probably pass out.

My sweetie just called me from his changing planes in Nashville. I threw fits and cried and begged and he said...I have a job to do.

I am worried about HIM and he called to remind me to charge my cell.

sigh.

[janmcn]

Dept. Homeland Security requires West Africa travelers to arrive at 5 airports: USA Today (http://www.cnbc.com/id/102098392)


The Department of Homeland Security announced today that all travelers entering the US from the three West African countries where Ebola is wide spread must enter through one of the five airports with advanced Ebola screening. Those airports are JFK, Newark, Dulles, Atlanta and Chicago.

In a related matter, Rwanda will begin screening all Americans entering its country for Ebola, whether they have symptoms or not.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2014/10/rwanda-ebola-americans-screening

[cologal]

Wasn't referring to transmission through air - am much more concerned about how he is making it up as he goes along. And I would rather he had enough sense to advise medical personnel before they were even exposed to an Ebola patient to suit up as he did when he visited Africa. One minute he says the initial protection was enough and then he says maybe not. Glad he came to that conclusion, but believe in his position he should have had foresight not hindsight.

No mainstream American hospital was prepared or trained for this so mistakes were made. The nurses were NOT protected. Now my niece I in Dallas and my cousin in Frostburg MD have received trading.

The fear is not productive... It's not airborne no matter what Fox says.

[sunnyatlast]

This is what Science Journal (not "Fox") says……


…..Researchers from Harvard, MIT and 11 other centers of excellence stated in Science Journal:

"As in every EVD outbreak, the 2014 EBOV variant carries a number of genetic changes distinct to this lineage; our data do not address whether these differences are related to the severity of the outbreak.

However, the catalog of 395 mutations, including 50 fixed nonsynonymous changes with 8 at positions with high levels of conservation across ebolaviruses, provides a starting point for such studies….."

Genomic surveillance elucidates Ebola virus origin and transmission during the 2014 outbreak (http://www.sciencemag.org/content/345/6202/1369.full)

[TexaninVA]

No mainstream American hospital was prepared or trained for this so mistakes were made. The nurses were NOT protected. Now my niece I in Dallas and my cousin in Frostburg MD have received trading.

The fear is not productive... It's not airborne no matter what Fox says.

Now that is a peculiar comment which reveals a mindset behind it … “…no matter what Fox says,” and coming from someone who I doubt ever turns that channel on anyway. Plus, by making this charge, you are being neither fair nor balanced IMHO. It is also a streeeeetch to say that George Will ( a has-been, semi-conservative commentator) is somehow responsible for the “spread” of the airborne possibility discussion. This question is being pondered by a lot of people, including Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, hardly a Fox news flunky wouldn’t you agree, who said "I'm worried about it because we know so little about it," he said. "You'll hear different people describe whether it could become airborne." He said that scientists did not agree. "I don't know who's right. I don't want to take that chance. So I'm taking it very seriously."

Let’s look at the facts as best we can determine…

-This strain of the virus, so far, seems to be relatively hard to transmit and it’s been 5 days or so since the last infection. Let’s hope it stays that way. (on a non-related topic, that’s the main reason the stock market has gone up for the last few sessions)

-There is no evidence to date the virus can go airborne. Let’s hope and pray it does not.

-But, that does not mean it cannot go airborne, does it? To deny that possibility, or to equate talking about it in a responsible way with spreading fear, is simply another rationalization for the ostrich to justify leaving its head buried lest any bad news disturb it.

-As I said, this question is being debated, has been for years, and in lots of fora, various elements of the media and of course on TOTV. Here is just a brief sample of what a search turns up.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/ebola-may-go-airborne

Why Won't The Fear Of Airborne Ebola Go Away? : Shots - Health News : NPR (http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/10/17/356966590/why-wont-the-fear-of-airborne-ebola-go-away)

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-20/top-scientist-warns-version-ebola-looks-very-different-bug

Can Ebola Go Airborne? - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottgottlieb/2014/09/03/can-ebola-go-airborne/)


So the point is, we don’t know if it can go airborne, and until someone definitely proves it one way or the other, it remains a legitimate topic for discussion.

[billethkid]

No mainstream American hospital was prepared or trained for this so mistakes were made. The nurses were NOT protected. Now my niece I in Dallas and my cousin in Frostburg MD have received trading.

The fear is not productive... It's not airborne no matter what Fox says.

There is nothing wrong with a healthy fear of the unkown. I am always suspect to the bravado that puts down others NATURAL reactions to a life threatening situation.

Whether it is airborn NOW or not IS NOT the issue. Prudent planning and understanding just naturally includes what else COULD HAPPEN given the life threatening potential.

I agree with other posters that credibility is watered down when it is tainted with blatant bias!!

[TexaninVA]

No, I actually have a very good working knowledge on how things are really done in Washington.

The thread went like this ...

I said (to another poster, not you): "Just out of curiosity and given your earlier comments about how you think a "political operative" is an ideal candidate to be Ebola Czar ...if the Ebola crisis had occurred in the prior administration would you have been as equally gushing had say Karl Rove been appointed?"

You replied: "Actually, Karl Rove or Andy Card would have been great choices. Both are insiders who know how to get things done. One does not have to be an expert in the field in order to coordinate operations and to get all the people talking on the same page."

After my jaw dropped with disbelief, I then replied to you with: "Actually, by saying what you just did, it's clear you have no idea how DC really works."

Your first reply to this was:

“You are probably right. We never had to know that much about Washington DC and the inner workings of federal agencies in my life before retirement. I should just leave it up to experts like you. Thank you for correcting me.”

But, then you changed your post to what’s shown above in which you say you do understand the workings of DC.

Now, we will never know whether you were telling the truth the first time, or simply being tongue in cheek, but we do know you changed your post.

Copy of my iPhone screen shot attached which shows your first post.

[Nightengale212]

No mainstream American hospital was prepared or trained for this so mistakes were made. The nurses were NOT protected. Now my niece I in Dallas and my cousin in Frostburg MD have received trading.

The fear is not productive... It's not airborne no matter what Fox says.

Since you have minimal fear regarding Ebola how about changing places with me!! I am a Primary Care R.N. Triage Nurse, and as of this writing have received no training on Ebola PPE, and the only info that has come down my pike are a few generic Ebola e-mails from my powers that be that continue to say protocols are in the works. To add fuel to the fire, my little state has a sizeable West African population, and the largest per capital Liberian population in the US.

This R.N. has received more Ebola info on my rides home from work listening to Sean Hannity on the radio than I have from my own healthcare facility which is pretty pathetic.

For those praying for the Pope save a few of those prayers for me and my nursing colleagues as we can certainly use them.

[sunnyatlast]

Since you have minimal fear regarding Ebola how about changing places with me!! I am a Primary Care R.N. Triage Nurse, and as of this writing have received no training on Ebola PPE, and the only info that has come down my pike are a few generic Ebola e-mails from my powers that be that continue to say protocols are in the works. To add fuel to the fire, my little state has a sizeable West African population, and the largest per capital Liberian population in the US.

This R.N. has received more Ebola info on my rides home from work listening to Sean Hannity on the radio than I have from my own healthcare facility which is pretty pathetic.

For those praying for the Pope save a few of those prayers for me and my nursing colleagues as we can certainly use them.

We are with you in thought and prayer!

Here is a picture of the Ebola kit baggies that were being given to nurses right up until the CDC's new guidelines on protective gear announced yesterday, as shown and discussed by a nursing union rep on Kelly File last night.

Nurses are supposed to be intelligent enough to fight Ebola, but yet dumb enough to be appeased into believing they are protected by these "baggies" kits….that don't even contain a GOWN!

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45555&stc=1&d=1413912817

[Barefoot]

Since you have minimal fear regarding Ebola how about changing places with me!! I am a Primary Care R.N. Triage Nurse, and as of this writing have received no training on Ebola PPE, and the only info that has come down my pike are a few generic Ebola e-mails from my powers that be that continue to say protocols are in the works. To add fuel to the fire, my little state has a sizeable West African population, and the largest per capital Liberian population in the US. This R.N. has received more Ebola info on my rides home from work listening to Sean Hannity on the radio than I have from my own healthcare facility which is pretty pathetic.

:22yikes: That isn't what we want to hear.
I have nothing but admiration for RNs and others who work on the front lines to keep us well.

__________________________________________________ __________________________

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328
No, I actually have a very good working knowledge on how things are really done in Washington.

Posted by Texan in VA
The thread went like this ...
I said (to another poster, not you): "Just out of curiosity and given your earlier comments about how you think a "political operative" is an ideal candidate to be Ebola Czar ...if the Ebola crisis had occurred in the prior administration would you have been as equally gushing had say Karl Rove been appointed?" .... snipped ....
Now, we will never know whether you were telling the truth the first time, or simply being tongue in cheek, but we do know you changed your post

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Careful, or you might both be sent to the principal's office. :Screen_of_Death:

[TexaninVA]

:22yikes: That isn't what we want to hear.
I have nothing but admiration for RNs and others who work on the front lines to keep us well.

__________________________________________________ __________________________

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328
No, I actually have a very good working knowledge on how things are really done in Washington.

Posted by Texan in VA
The thread went like this ...
I said (to another poster, not you): "Just out of curiosity and given your earlier comments about how you think a "political operative" is an ideal candidate to be Ebola Czar ...if the Ebola crisis had occurred in the prior administration would you have been as equally gushing had say Karl Rove been appointed?" .... snipped ....
Now, we will never know whether you were telling the truth the first time, or simply being tongue in cheek, but we do know you changed your post

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Careful, or you might both be sent to the principal's office. :Screen_of_Death:


Agree ... let's hear it for the RNs ... the front line in this fight indeed.

Regarding Sandtrap ... we're good. We've been in mutual contact and will keep it friendly if/where we agree to disagree

[gomoho]

The recent move to funnel all folks travelling from the 3 countries in question into only 5 American airports is in my opinion the first step towards blocking all travel. Wonder why it took them so long to figure out what most of us said weeks ago! This wouldn't be pandering to the electorate or would it?

[sunnyatlast]

The recent move to funnel all folks travelling from the 3 countries in question into only 5 American airports is in my opinion the first step towards blocking all travel. Wonder why it took them so long to figure out what most of us said weeks ago! This wouldn't be pandering to the electorate or would it?

One thing is for certain. They are never going to admit to adopting a common-sense idea that any hardworking taxpayer with horse sense proposes.

[TexaninVA]

The recent move to funnel all folks travelling from the 3 countries in question into only 5 American airports is in my opinion the first step towards blocking all travel. Wonder why it took them so long to figure out what most of us said weeks ago! This wouldn't be pandering to the electorate or would it?

It truly is amazing to watch isn't it? Inching their way towards the obvious. There is some kind of debilitating strain of PC that has infected the thinking of a large portion of the government leadership (not to mention about 30-35% of the electorate). This is hard to prove but I may post more on this "PCbola" after I ponder it some more.

Anyway, glad to see them progressing even if painful and slow. As far as I know, essentially all of the West African countries have instituted bans, including Senegal which is next door to the hot zone.

[janmcn]

Nina Pham, the Dallas nurse who contracted Ebola, has been upgraded to good condition, the National Institute for Health is reporting.

Ashoka Mukpo, the freelance NBC cameraman who was treated in Nebraska, has been declared cured of Ebola.

This is good news for all concerned.

[cologal]

Now that is a peculiar comment which reveals a mindset behind it … “…no matter what Fox says,” and coming from someone who I doubt ever turns that channel on anyway. Plus, by making this charge, you are being neither fair nor balanced IMHO. It is also a streeeeetch to say that George Will ( a has-been, semi-conservative commentator) is somehow responsible for the “spread” of the airborne possibility discussion. This question is being pondered by a lot of people, including Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, hardly a Fox news flunky wouldn’t you agree, who said "I'm worried about it because we know so little about it," he said. "You'll hear different people describe whether it could become airborne." He said that scientists did not agree. "I don't know who's right. I don't want to take that chance. So I'm taking it very seriously."

Let’s look at the facts as best we can determine…

-This strain of the virus, so far, seems to be relatively hard to transmit and it’s been 5 days or so since the last infection. Let’s hope it stays that way. (on a non-related topic, that’s the main reason the stock market has gone up for the last few sessions)

-There is no evidence to date the virus can go airborne. Let’s hope and pray it does not.

-But, that does not mean it cannot go airborne, does it? To deny that possibility, or to equate talking about it in a responsible way with spreading fear, is simply another rationalization for the ostrich to justify leaving its head buried lest any bad news disturb it.

-As I said, this question is being debated, has been for years, and in lots of fora, various elements of the media and of course on TOTV. Here is just a brief sample of what a search turns up.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/ebola-may-go-airborne

Why Won't The Fear Of Airborne Ebola Go Away? : Shots - Health News : NPR (http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/10/17/356966590/why-wont-the-fear-of-airborne-ebola-go-away)

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-20/top-scientist-warns-version-ebola-looks-very-different-bug

Can Ebola Go Airborne? - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottgottlieb/2014/09/03/can-ebola-go-airborne/)


So the point is, we don’t know if it can go airborne, and until someone definitely proves it one way or the other, it remains a legitimate topic for discussion.

Fair and Balanced....LOL But I do tune in every once in a while. I did watch the clip of Mr Will making this claim now refuted by the original source.

There have been 5,000 deaths in West Africa in this outbreak,1 death and 2 sick any evidence you can site to confirm the virus is airborne?

[cologal]

There is nothing wrong with a healthy fear of the unkown. I am always suspect to the bravado that puts down others NATURAL reactions to a life threatening situation.

Whether it is airborn NOW or not IS NOT the issue. Prudent planning and understanding just naturally includes what else COULD HAPPEN given the life threatening potential.

I agree with other posters that credibility is watered down when it is tainted with blatant bias!!

To me this is a medical not a political issue and I have spent my entire adult life in the medical community.

[CFrance]

The thread went like this ...

I said (to another poster, not you): "Just out of curiosity and given your earlier comments about how you think a "political operative" is an ideal candidate to be Ebola Czar ...if the Ebola crisis had occurred in the prior administration would you have been as equally gushing had say Karl Rove been appointed?"

You replied: "Actually, Karl Rove or Andy Card would have been great choices. Both are insiders who know how to get things done. One does not have to be an expert in the field in order to coordinate operations and to get all the people talking on the same page."

After my jaw dropped with disbelief, I then replied to you with: "Actually, by saying what you just did, it's clear you have no idea how DC really works."

Your first reply to this was:

“You are probably right. We never had to know that much about Washington DC and the inner workings of federal agencies in my life before retirement. I should just leave it up to experts like you. Thank you for correcting me.”

But, then you changed your post to what’s shown above in which you say you do understand the workings of DC.

Now, we will never know whether you were telling the truth the first time, or simply being tongue in cheek, but we do know you changed your post.

Copy of my iPhone screen shot attached which shows your first post.
I think the part you missed was that sandtrap's statement bolded above was sarcasm.

[billethkid]

To me this is a medical not a political issue and I have spent my entire adult life in the medical community.


Most of us agree 100% it is a medical issue.......that is being managed and manipulated politically!!!!!

[Jebstuart]

Nina Pham, the Dallas nurse who contracted Ebola, has been upgraded to good condition, the National Institute for Health is reporting.

Ashoka Mukpo, the freelance NBC cameraman who was treated in Nebraska, has been declared cured of Ebola.

This is good news for all concerned.

It is some good news, and we have learned a lot from the few cases here. But the news remains grim for west Africa. The poverty and government distrust has helped this awful disease roar on.


WHO | Ebola in West Africa: heading for catastrophe? (http://www.who.int/csr/disease/ebola/ebola-6-months/west-africa/en/)

Instead of relying on news reports (even the BBC seems less newsworthy and more opinionatedto me) I find very helpful and factual info from the CDC and World Health Organization.

[Jebstuart]

An interesting article from doctors without borders of what it is really like. The international response has been pathetic. This disease can be stopped or at least greatly reduced if those on the front lines had the resources.

Ebola: Impossible Choices in Liberia | MSF USA (http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/news-stories/voice-field/ebola-impossible-choices-liberia)

[graciegirl]

Ebola in West Africa: heading for catastrophe?

Strong control measures needed to stop steep climb in cases

Ebola at 6 months

When used to describe outbreaks of infectious diseases, the word “exponential” strikes fear into the hearts of policymakers. But epidemiologists tracking the spread of Ebola virus disease are increasingly convinced that the current epidemic in West Africa has been growing exponentially for at least 16 weeks, since May 2014 (epidemiological week 21 of 2014, see figure). The number of new cases has been doubling every 20-30 days.
Late last week, epidemiologists at WHO headquarters in Geneva undertook a major re-assessment of all reported data coming from all sources at all outbreak sites. Though confidence in data being reported by Guinea is good, other significant problems were identified.
In Liberia, for example, data were being reported from 4 different and uncoordinated streams, resulting in several overlaps and duplicated numbers. In other cases, a backlog of unreported cases was detected, thus creating a distorted picture of how the outbreak has been evolving. Many cases and deaths were not being properly registered on standard reporting forms.
These problems have now been corrected. The results of this data clean-up and re-analysis were published online last night in the New England Journal of Medicine.

Read the article (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100?query=featured_home)
Strong control measures to stop steep climb in cases

Nearly 1000 new cases were reported in the week ending 14 September alone – certainly an underestimate of the true burden of disease. If the present rate of increase continues – if nothing is done to intervene – somewhere between 2500 (black line) and 5000 cases (blue line) will occur, each week, just four weeks from now. Affected countries could be seeing more than 10 000 cases weekly by mid-November.

[CFrance]

It is some good news, and we have learned a lot from the few cases here. But the news remains grim for west Africa. The poverty and government distrust has helped this awful disease roar on.


WHO | Ebola in West Africa: heading for catastrophe? (http://www.who.int/csr/disease/ebola/ebola-6-months/west-africa/en/)

Instead of relying on news reports (even the BBC seems less newsworthy and more opinionatedto me) I find very helpful and factual info from the CDC and World Health Organization.

The last paragraph in this article gives understanding about how poverty and misuse of the land in other countries affects us all:

"Scientists and epidemiologists know enough now to issue a clear warning. The risk of future Ebola outbreaks will persist as long as pervasive poverty forces large numbers of people, who depend on bushmeat for their very physical and economic survival, to hunt ever deeper in the region’s degraded and rapidly diminishing forests."

I believe first-world countries cannot afford to be isolationists, at least where world health is concerned.

[TexaninVA]

I think the part you missed was that sandtrap's statement bolded above was sarcasm.

Actually, I think you missed where I noted it was one of two possibilities but no matter at this point ...

The key issue remains which is ... this was not a serious appointment by any measure or amount of rationalization to the contrary. Mr Klain was named to this job to make the issue go away politically. Do you really deny that?

[TexaninVA]

To me this is a medical not a political issue and I have spent my entire adult life in the medical community.

I totally agree ... this should be treated as a medical issue, and not a political problem. I also think most people agree would agree with this assertion.

[graciegirl]

OCTOBER 16,2014
Ebola Virus Disease in West Africa — The First 9 Months of the Epidemic and Forward Projections

WHO Ebola Response Team
N Engl J Med 2014; 371:1481-1495October 16, 2014 (http://www.nejm.org/toc/nejm/371/16/)DOI: 10.1056/NEJMoa1411100
http://www.nejm.org/templates/jsp/_style2/_mms/_nejm/img/icon_comment.gif Comments (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100?query=featured_home#discussion) open through October 22, 2014
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AbstractArticleReferencesCiting Articles (2) Comments (14)
Background

On March 23, 2014, the World Health Organization (WHO) was notified of an outbreak of Ebola virus disease (EVD) in Guinea. On August 8, the WHO declared the epidemic to be a “public health emergency of international concern.”
Full Text of Background... (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100?query=featured_home#Background)


Methods

By September 14, 2014, a total of 4507 probable and confirmed cases, including 2296 deaths from EVD (Zaire species) had been reported from five countries in West Africa — Guinea, Liberia, Nigeria, Senegal, and Sierra Leone. We analyzed a detailed subset of data on 3343 confirmed and 667 probable Ebola cases collected in Guinea, Liberia, Nigeria, and Sierra Leone as of September 14.
Full Text of Methods... (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100?query=featured_home#Methods)


Results

The majority of patients are 15 to 44 years of age (49.9% male), and we estimate that the case fatality rate is 70.8% (95% confidence interval [CI], 69 to 73) among persons with known clinical outcome of infection. The course of infection, including signs and symptoms, incubation period (11.4 days), and serial interval (15.3 days), is similar to that reported in previous outbreaks of EVD. On the basis of the initial periods of exponential growth, the estimated basic reproduction numbers (R0 ) are 1.71 (95% CI, 1.44 to 2.01) for Guinea, 1.83 (95% CI, 1.72 to 1.94) for Liberia, and 2.02 (95% CI, 1.79 to 2.26) for Sierra Leone. The estimated current reproduction numbers (R) are 1.81 (95% CI, 1.60 to 2.03) for Guinea, 1.51 (95% CI, 1.41 to 1.60) for Liberia, and 1.38 (95% CI, 1.27 to 1.51) for Sierra Leone; the corresponding doubling times are 15.7 days (95% CI, 12.9 to 20.3) for Guinea, 23.6 days (95% CI, 20.2 to 28.2) for Liberia, and 30.2 days (95% CI, 23.6 to 42.3) for Sierra Leone. Assuming no change in the control measures for this epidemic, by November 2, 2014, the cumulative reported numbers of confirmed and probable cases are predicted to be 5740 in Guinea, 9890 in Liberia, and 5000 in Sierra Leone, exceeding 20,000 in total.
Full Text of Results... (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100?query=featured_home#Results)


Conclusions

These data indicate that without drastic improvements in control measures, the numbers of cases of and deaths from EVD are expected to continue increasing from hundreds to thousands per week in the coming months.
Full Text of Discussion... (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100?query=featured_home#Discussion)


Read the Full Article... (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100?query=featured_home#Top)

[kittygilchrist]

Thank u for persistence, GG.
Wish u were Czar.

[CFrance]

Actually, I think you missed where I noted it was one of two possibilities but no matter at this point ...

The key issue remains which is ... this was not a serious appointment by any measure or amount o You f rationalization to the contrary. Mr Klain was named to this job to make the issue go away politically. Do you really deny that?

Yes. Why would the gvt. do one more thing that looks suspicious when they are so on the hot seat right now. Why would the current administration? I am looking for the proof of your statement. I get the feeling from your posts that you are very suspicious of any kind of government control. You accuse others of not knowing what they're talking about, when in fact they do.

[CFrance]

OCTOBER 16,2014
Ebola Virus Disease in West Africa — The First 9 Months of the Epidemic and Forward Projections

WHO Ebola Response Team
N Engl J Med 2014; 371:1481-1495October 16, 2014 (http://www.nejm.org/toc/nejm/371/16/)DOI: 10.1056/NEJMoa1411100
http://www.nejm.org/templates/jsp/_style2/_mms/_nejm/img/icon_comment.gif Comments (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100?query=featured_home#discussion) open through October 22, 2014
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AbstractArticleReferencesCiting Articles (2) Comments (14)
Background

On March 23, 2014, the World Health Organization (WHO) was notified of an outbreak of Ebola virus disease (EVD) in Guinea. On August 8, the WHO declared the epidemic to be a “public health emergency of international concern.”
Full Text of Background... (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100?query=featured_home#Background)


Methods

By September 14, 2014, a total of 4507 probable and confirmed cases, including 2296 deaths from EVD (Zaire species) had been reported from five countries in West Africa — Guinea, Liberia, Nigeria, Senegal, and Sierra Leone. We analyzed a detailed subset of data on 3343 confirmed and 667 probable Ebola cases collected in Guinea, Liberia, Nigeria, and Sierra Leone as of September 14.
Full Text of Methods... (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100?query=featured_home#Methods)


Results

The majority of patients are 15 to 44 years of age (49.9% male), and we estimate that the case fatality rate is 70.8% (95% confidence interval [CI], 69 to 73) among persons with known clinical outcome of infection. The course of infection, including signs and symptoms, incubation period (11.4 days), and serial interval (15.3 days), is similar to that reported in previous outbreaks of EVD. On the basis of the initial periods of exponential growth, the estimated basic reproduction numbers (R0 ) are 1.71 (95% CI, 1.44 to 2.01) for Guinea, 1.83 (95% CI, 1.72 to 1.94) for Liberia, and 2.02 (95% CI, 1.79 to 2.26) for Sierra Leone. The estimated current reproduction numbers (R) are 1.81 (95% CI, 1.60 to 2.03) for Guinea, 1.51 (95% CI, 1.41 to 1.60) for Liberia, and 1.38 (95% CI, 1.27 to 1.51) for Sierra Leone; the corresponding doubling times are 15.7 days (95% CI, 12.9 to 20.3) for Guinea, 23.6 days (95% CI, 20.2 to 28.2) for Liberia, and 30.2 days (95% CI, 23.6 to 42.3) for Sierra Leone. Assuming no change in the control measures for this epidemic, by November 2, 2014, the cumulative reported numbers of confirmed and probable cases are predicted to be 5740 in Guinea, 9890 in Liberia, and 5000 in Sierra Leone, exceeding 20,000 in total.
Full Text of Results... (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100?query=featured_home#Results)


Conclusions

These data indicate that without drastic improvements in control measures, the numbers of cases of and deaths from EVD are expected to continue increasing from hundreds to thousands per week in the coming months.
Full Text of Discussion... (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100?query=featured_home#Discussion)


Read the Full Article... (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100?query=featured_home#Top)
Gracie, what do you think they mean by "control methods"? My take was they are talking about control at the source--enough beds, proper quarantine methods, and a possible vaccine.

I still don't believe we all need to close our doors and crawl under our beds. We need to do everything we can to help stop this at the source.

[graciegirl]

Gracie, what do you think they mean by "control methods"? My take was they are talking about control at the source--enough beds, proper quarantine methods, and a possible vaccine.

I still don't believe we all need to close our doors and crawl under our beds. We need to do everything we can to help stop this at the source.


C. It is the virus I fear, and those handling the problem who don't understand fully any vermin they can't swat with a fly swatter.

I want medical people to handle this medical problem and use the others for the grunt work like closing doors, what doors to close, and how long the doors should be closed.

[graciegirl]

OCTOBER 16,2014
Ebola Virus Disease in West Africa — The First 9 Months of the Epidemic and Forward Projections

WHO Ebola Response Team
N Engl J Med 2014; 371:1481-1495October 16, 2014 (http://www.nejm.org/toc/nejm/371/16/)DOI: 10.1056/NEJMoa1411100
http://www.nejm.org/templates/jsp/_style2/_mms/_nejm/img/icon_comment.gif Comments (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100?query=featured_home#discussion) open through October 22, 2014
Share:











AbstractArticleReferencesCiting Articles (2) Comments (14)
Background

On March 23, 2014, the World Health Organization (WHO) was notified of an outbreak of Ebola virus disease (EVD) in Guinea. On August 8, the WHO declared the epidemic to be a “public health emergency of international concern.”
Full Text of Background... (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100?query=featured_home#Background)


Methods

By September 14, 2014, a total of 4507 probable and confirmed cases, including 2296 deaths from EVD (Zaire species) had been reported from five countries in West Africa — Guinea, Liberia, Nigeria, Senegal, and Sierra Leone. We analyzed a detailed subset of data on 3343 confirmed and 667 probable Ebola cases collected in Guinea, Liberia, Nigeria, and Sierra Leone as of September 14.
Full Text of Methods... (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100?query=featured_home#Methods)


Results

The majority of patients are 15 to 44 years of age (49.9% male), and we estimate that the case fatality rate is 70.8% (95% confidence interval [CI], 69 to 73) among persons with known clinical outcome of infection. The course of infection, including signs and symptoms, incubation period (11.4 days), and serial interval (15.3 days), is similar to that reported in previous outbreaks of EVD. On the basis of the initial periods of exponential growth, the estimated basic reproduction numbers (R0 ) are 1.71 (95% CI, 1.44 to 2.01) for Guinea, 1.83 (95% CI, 1.72 to 1.94) for Liberia, and 2.02 (95% CI, 1.79 to 2.26) for Sierra Leone. The estimated current reproduction numbers (R) are 1.81 (95% CI, 1.60 to 2.03) for Guinea, 1.51 (95% CI, 1.41 to 1.60) for Liberia, and 1.38 (95% CI, 1.27 to 1.51) for Sierra Leone; the corresponding doubling times are 15.7 days (95% CI, 12.9 to 20.3) for Guinea, 23.6 days (95% CI, 20.2 to 28.2) for Liberia, and 30.2 days (95% CI, 23.6 to 42.3) for Sierra Leone. Assuming no change in the control measures for this epidemic, by November 2, 2014, the cumulative reported numbers of confirmed and probable cases are predicted to be 5740 in Guinea, 9890 in Liberia, and 5000 in Sierra Leone, exceeding 20,000 in total.
Full Text of Results... (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100?query=featured_home#Results)


Conclusions

These data indicate that without drastic improvements in control measures, the numbers of cases of and deaths from EVD are expected to continue increasing from hundreds to thousands per week in the coming months.
Full Text of Discussion... (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100?query=featured_home#Discussion)


Read the Full Article... (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100?query=featured_home#Top)




Bumping my own post for those who continue to minimalize the risk.

[TexaninVA]

Yes. Why would the gvt. do one more thing that looks suspicious when they are so on the hot seat right now. Why would the current administration? I am looking for the proof of your statement. I get the feeling from your posts that you are very suspicious of any kind of government control. You accuse others of not knowing what they're talking about, when in fact they do.

I have to say … when you post “Why would the gvt. do one more thing that looks suspicious when they are so on the hot seat right now. Why would the current administration?” that my eyebrows involuntarily raised up as in … did she really say that???

Regarding my reasoning, I invite you to reread earlier post regarding Mr. Klain’s appointment as Ebola Caar, and which I’ve reposted here for ease of reference.

“It occurred to me … if I was a senior official, and I had a problem, what type of person would I appoint to solve it? Well, obviously it would depend on the nature of the problem I had, wouldn’t it?

For example, if I had a military problem, it would make sense to appoint a military leader to solve it.

If I had a business problem, I would find an expert business leader to solve it.

Not surprisingly, if I had a medical problem I would appoint a doctor or medical administrator to get rid of the problem.

But, on the other hand, if I appointed a political operative, what does that say about how I view the nature of the problem I have to solve?”


Thus, if one simply refuses to acknowledge the obvious, to wit that Mr. Klain’s appointment is political intended to solve a political problem, and notwithstanding the circumstances of his background (ie bare knuckles politics), I can only conclude the refusal is based on grounds of (secular) faith, not reason.

Actually, you asked in one of your earlier posts why right of center people lack “faith” in the government’s ability etc. First of all, I would say faith is best reserved for one’s higher power, assuming one has one. But, to your point, I think the question is better asked as why people lack “trust.” Well, that’s pretty easy to answer. When the senior leader makes an obvious political appointment in the most cynical of ways, especially during a potential life/death matter such as Ebola, and where people are concerned for their safety, can you not see where trust is further shattered? The cynicism and crass calculations that led to such an appointment are glaring IMHO. I can recount other examples of shattering trust (ignoring immigration laws, and in effect allowing a terror army to arise after we had won the war in Iraq etc … but that would get us off thread so I’ll defer)

When people left of center then try to rationalize Klain’s appointment, or defend the indefensible with “hey, he’s a really good coordinator” or “he’s just the best at cutting thru red tape” and at the same time ignore the dysfunctional reporting structure (Klain reports to two staff officers, not even directly to POTUS), and overlook the lack of budgetary clout etc … yes, I repeat --- people saying that do not understand how DC really works. I will grant they may be unknowingly naïve because they’ve never worked there or, more likely, because their “faith” remains strong. It’s not an accusation, it’s simply a statement that reflects the reality of the situation.

The DC “czar strategy” is designed to make the credulous and lightly informed across the country feel better, “hey, he’s appointed a czar…problem solved!” It’s further designed to take the heat off senior appointed officials who actually have line management responsibility while they scramble to actually solve the problem. However, in this instance, it is also being done with an eye on the calendar for early November. If you deny that, there’s not much else that can be said. As I stated in an earlier post, this technique seems to fool the gullible pretty much every time it’s tried, and not just with this administration I might add.


Regarding one of you earlier posts, I asked you to explain why you think a travel ban is “simplistic” (ie your term) but you have not yet responded. I would really like to hear a brief summary of your reasoning which led you to that conclusion, and specifically to the term “simplistic.” This implies that you have a much more enlightened solution. Please share it.

[Challenger]

If the Surgeon General of the United States were a trained medical professional (doctor, nurse, etc) and a recognized expert in public health issues, There would be no need for a CZAR. Should we not have such a qualified person in office?

Can anyone name a Surgeon General who has served in the last 8-10 years?
I remember Koop but no others. He directed a major anti-smoking effort that was apparently quite efffective.

[CFrance]

I have to say … when you post “Why would the gvt. do one more thing that looks suspicious when they are so on the hot seat right now. Why would the current administration?” that my eyebrows involuntarily raised up as in … did she really say that???

Regarding my reasoning, I invite you to reread earlier post regarding Mr. Klain’s appointment as Ebola Caar, and which I’ve reposted here for ease of reference.

“It occurred to me … if I was a senior official, and I had a problem, what type of person would I appoint to solve it? Well, obviously it would depend on the nature of the problem I had, wouldn’t it?

For example, if I had a military problem, it would make sense to appoint a military leader to solve it.

If I had a business problem, I would find an expert business leader to solve it.

Not surprisingly, if I had a medical problem I would appoint a doctor or medical administrator to get rid of the problem.

But, on the other hand, if I appointed a political operative, what does that say about how I view the nature of the problem I have to solve?”


Thus, if one simply refuses to acknowledge the obvious, to wit that Mr. Klain’s appointment is political intended to solve a political problem, and notwithstanding the circumstances of his background (ie bare knuckles politics), I can only conclude the refusal is based on grounds of (secular) faith, not reason.

Actually, you asked in one of your earlier posts why right of center people lack “faith” in the government’s ability etc. First of all, I would say faith is best reserved for one’s higher power, assuming one has one. But, to your point, I think the question is better asked as why people lack “trust.” Well, that’s pretty easy to answer. When the senior leader makes an obvious political appointment in the most cynical of ways, especially during a potential life/death matter such as Ebola, and where people are concerned for their safety, can you not see where trust is further shattered? The cynicism and crass calculations that led to such an appointment are glaring IMHO. I can recount other examples of shattering trust (ignoring immigration laws, and in effect allowing a terror army to arise after we had won the war in Iraq etc … but that would get us off thread so I’ll defer)

When people left of center then try to rationalize Klain’s appointment, or defend the indefensible with “hey, he’s a really good coordinator” or “he’s just the best at cutting thru red tape” and at the same time ignore the dysfunctional reporting structure (Klain reports to two staff officers, not even directly to POTUS), and overlook the lack of budgetary clout etc … yes, I repeat --- people saying that do not understand how DC really works. I will grant they may be unknowingly naïve because they’ve never worked there or, more likely, because their “faith” remains strong. It’s not an accusation, it’s simply a statement that reflects the reality of the situation.

The DC “czar strategy” is designed to make the credulous and lightly informed across the country feel better, “hey, he’s appointed a czar…problem solved!” It’s further designed to take the heat off senior appointed officials who actually have line management responsibility while they scramble to actually solve the problem. However, in this instance, it is also being done with an eye on the calendar for early November. If you deny that, there’s not much else that can be said. As I stated in an earlier post, this technique seems to fool the gullible pretty much every time it’s tried, and not just with this administration I might add.


Regarding one of you earlier posts, I asked you to explain why you think a travel ban is “simplistic” (ie your term) but you have not yet responded. I would really like to hear a brief summary of your reasoning which led you to that conclusion, and specifically to the term “simplistic.” This implies that you have a much more enlightened solution. Please share it.

I have stated my feeling about this. As Madelaine Amee has stated, and I agree with her, the world is flat. Banning flights from those countries is not going to stop ebola from entering the country. People can enter the country in many different ways.

Stemming this epidemic at the source is what is going to stop ebola from entering this country, in my opinion.

You may have military experts who can oversee the broad field in a military operation (but I doubt that one, too) and business leaders who can see the whole picture of an ailing company, etc. etc. But as for a medical person being able to bring several agencies together and force them to communicate in an effective way? I doubt that. That's a communication problem, which has bee admitted, and it needs an expert in the field of communication. No one doctor has broad knowledge over all of this. The different fields need to come together to work on the problem--medical, military, public health, disease control.

[graciegirl]

I have stated my feeling about this. As Madelaine Amee has stated, and I agree with her, the world is flat. Banning flights from those countries is not going to stop ebola from entering the country. People can enter the country in many different ways.

Stemming this epidemic at the source is what is going to stop ebola from entering this country, in my opinion.

You may have military experts who can oversee the broad field in a military operation (but I doubt that one, too) and business leaders who can see the whole picture of an ailing company, etc. etc. But as for a medical person being able to bring several agencies together and force them to communicate in an effective way? I doubt that. That's a communication problem, which has bee admitted, and it needs an expert in the field of communication. No one doctor has broad knowledge over all of this. The different fields need to come together to work on the problem--medical, military, public health, disease control.


It could be much better handled than it is now. Trouble is not over and the experts aren't on the team.

[CFrance]

I have stated my feeling about this. As Madelaine Amee has stated, and I agree with her, the world is flat. Banning flights from those countries is not going to stop ebola from entering the country. People can enter the country in many different ways.

Stemming this epidemic at the source is what is going to stop ebola from entering this country, in my opinion.

You may have military experts who can oversee the broad field in a military operation (but I doubt that one, too) and business leaders who can see the whole picture of an ailing company, etc. etc. But as for a medical person being able to bring several agencies together and force them to communicate in an effective way? I doubt that. That's a communication problem, which has bee admitted, and it needs an expert in the field of communication. No one doctor has broad knowledge over all of this. The different fields need to come together to work on the problem--medical, military, public health, disease control.
And BTW, let's not nitpick words. I have faith in the government just as I have faith in people around me who I love. And I trust the gvt. will get this right.

If I didn't have faith or trust in my government, I personally would live somewhere else. But I would rather live nowhere else but here, despite the few warts we may have.

[TexaninVA]

I have stated my feeling about this. As Madelaine Amee has stated, and I agree with her, the world is flat. Banning flights from those countries is not going to stop ebola from entering the country. People can enter the country in many different ways.

Stemming this epidemic at the source is what is going to stop ebola from entering this country, in my opinion.

You may have military experts who can oversee the broad field in a military operation (but I doubt that one, too) and business leaders who can see the whole picture of an ailing company, etc. etc. But as for a medical person being able to bring several agencies together and force them to communicate in an effective way? I doubt that. That's a communication problem, which has bee admitted, and it needs an expert in the field of communication. No one doctor has broad knowledge over all of this. The different fields need to come together to work on the problem--medical, military, public health, disease control.

No one said banning travel from the affected countries is going to stop Ebola 100%. But, it will obviously *reduce* it. It’s not about one perfect solution … it’s about a basket of common sense solutions that, take together, actually work. That’s why essentially every African country has banned travel. Senegal did it ASAP (I know because my son was there at the time) and so far it seems to have worked.

The argument that we need to stop Ebola at its source is fine, and I agree, but you seem to feel that we can only take one action, not multiple actions which makes no sense. I’m not trying to be insulting, but your argument is illogical.

I also fully agree that multiple fields need to come together to solve the problem … but that’s a given and true of any significant problem which crosses organization boundaries. But that premise by no means then leads to, ergo “…put a political operative in charge.”

Let me ask you, why is Secretary Burwell not “in charge?” She runs Health and Human Services, has 77,000 employees, has a trillion dollar budget and we pay her $200,000 per year. She can cross boundaries, butt heads if needed and get it done. Give her whatever help she needs. Leadership is what’s required, which includes communications skills etc. We do not need nor want politics. If she can’t display the needed leadership, fire her and get a new Secretary HHS. But right now, the Czar solution is not serious and, as I said, is obviously political in nature with an eye to diverting the credulous most especially before the election. This guy didn’t even show up for work until today and missed key meetings over the weekend.

[TexaninVA]

And BTW, let's not nitpick words. I have faith in the government just as I have faith in people around me who I love. And I trust the gvt. will get this right.

If I didn't have faith or trust in my government, I personally would live somewhere else. But I would rather live nowhere else but here, despite the few warts we may have.

It’s not nitpicking in the least … it zeros in on the key issue which is “trust" as in lack thereof. If leadership (in any organization) takes repeated actions which shatter trust, and continue to demonstrate untrustworthiness, you cannot expect faith to follow.

I have faith in the American people and key institutions (ie US military for one) but the current leaders have shown us they are not worthy of trust. I’m sure you love the country as much as I do … we just see things differently. When I see leaders in office (not just talking Federal) it’s precisely because of my love of country that I want to pursue electoral and other legal means to replace them with more qualified people who can regain my trust, and then hopefully my faith.

[sunnyatlast]

"As Madelaine Amee has stated, and I agree with her, the world is flat. Banning flights from those countries is not going to stop ebola from entering the country. People can enter the country in many different ways."

Again, stop the people, not the flights. They cannot come into the U.S. without a visa.

Latin American and Caribbean nations get it--that infecting the nursing, technical and medical staffs of the best hospitals the nation has will reduce the civil order to ruin and chaos!

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/article3073953.html

[janmcn]

Again, stop the people, not the flights. They cannot come into the U.S. without a visa.

Latin American and Caribbean nations get it--that infecting the nursing, technical and medical staffs of the best hospitals the nation has will reduce the civil order to ruin and chaos!

Ebola fears spur travel bans in Latin America, Caribbean | The Miami Herald (http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/article3073953.html)

"Stop the people, not the flights". Why would the flights continue to operate, if people are not allowed to fly on them? This doesn't make any sense.

The airlines that fly in and out of these three countries would probably like an excuse to stop servicing these routes, in order to protect their own employees and aircraft.

[janmcn]

Ebola Patient Nina Pham's Dog, Bentley, Tests Negative for Virus - NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/ebola-patient-nina-phams-dog-bentley-tests-negative-virus-n231591)


Bentley, the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel owned by Nina Pham, tested negative for the Ebola virus. He will continue his 21 day quarantine, under the watchful eye of animal services in Dallas.

Excellent news for all concerned.

[cologal]

If the Surgeon General of the United States were a trained medical professional (doctor, nurse, etc) and a recognized expert in public health issues, There would be no need for a CZAR. Should we not have such a qualified person in office?

Can anyone name a Surgeon General who has served in the last 8-10 years?
I remember Koop but no others. He directed a major anti-smoking effort that was apparently quite efffective.

There is no Surgeon General because of the usual gridlock in Washington.

Not being political just stating a fact.

[sunnyatlast]

"Stop the people, not the flights". Why would the flights continue to operate, if people are not allowed to fly on them? This doesn't make any sense.

The airlines that fly in and out of these three countries would probably like an excuse to stop servicing these routes, in order to protect their own employees and aircraft.

It doesn't make any sense? I didn't say stop ALL the people on a flight.

Stop giving visas to the people who are disqualified at the Ebola screening entry points and disease testing results review at the Embassy, and rescind the visas of the 13,000 outstanding ones who fail to pass Ebola Screening/Testing by U.S. Consulates in their countries!

Duncan entered the U.S. on a Tourist visa!

From the U.S. Embassy in Liberia:

"All visitors to the United States Embassy – including visa applicants – must pass through security screening. Because of the outbreak of Ebola Virus Disease (EVD) in Liberia, visa applicants will be screened for symptoms of EVD and any visitor exhibiting symptoms of EVD will be required to leave the consular section. "

Nonimmigrant Visas | Embassy of the United States Monrovia, Liberia (http://monrovia.usembassy.gov/nonimmigrant_visas.html)

[janmcn]

It doesn't make any sense? I didn't say stop ALL the people on a flight.

Stop giving visas to the people who are disqualified at the Ebola screening entry points and disease testing results review at the Embassy, and rescind the visas of the 13,000 outstanding ones who fail to pass Ebola Screening/Testing by U.S. Consulates in their countries!

Duncan entered the U.S. on a Tourist visa!

From the U.S. Embassy in Liberia:

"All visitors to the United States Embassy – including visa applicants – must pass through security screening. Because of the outbreak of Ebola Virus Disease (EVD) in Liberia, visa applicants will be screened for symptoms of EVD and any visitor exhibiting symptoms of EVD will be required to leave the consular section. "

Nonimmigrant Visas | Embassy of the United States Monrovia, Liberia (http://monrovia.usembassy.gov/nonimmigrant_visas.html)

Duncan had no symptoms the day he boarded the flight.

[billethkid]

Duncan had no symptoms the day he boarded the flight.

No his was much worse.

He knew he was exposed.
He knowingly lied to get aboard the plane in his own words to get treatment in the USA!!

[janmcn]

[quote=billethkid;956475]No his was much worse.

He knew he was exposed.
He knowingly lied to get aboard the plane in his own

///

[VT2TV]

Since you have minimal fear regarding Ebola how about changing places with me!! I am a Primary Care R.N. Triage Nurse, and as of this writing have received no training on Ebola PPE, and the only info that has come down my pike are a few generic Ebola e-mails from my powers that be that continue to say protocols are in the works. To add fuel to the fire, my little state has a sizeable West African population, and the largest per capital Liberian population in the US.

This R.N. has received more Ebola info on my rides home from work listening to Sean Hannity on the radio than I have from my own healthcare facility which is pretty pathetic.

For those praying for the Pope save a few of those prayers for me and my nursing colleagues as we can certainly use them.



You need to be contacting the CDC, or Osha, or the Health Regulatory Board for your state, or JCAHO, or any other agency you can think of. I don't know if you would have to give your name (in case you are afraid of retribution). But even if your hospital gets angry, what is more important-you and your co-workers being protected from a potentially deadly disease??? or--losing your job? I don't think I would want to work for a hospital who doesn't seem to care about me. !!!!!!!!!!!! Or their patients.

[sunnyatlast]

Duncan had no symptoms the day he boarded the flight.

He received the visa last year and showed the numerous largest risk factors for overstaying a tourist visa:

"Jessica Vaughn, a researcher affiliated with the nonprofit Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, said U.S. officials had made one “mistake” by issuing Duncan a visa last year and a second error by allowing him to enter the country.

“If you look at his circumstances, it should have been really tough for him to qualify for a visa,” Vaughn said. She noted that Duncan reportedly was single, jobless, living away from his home country and had a number of relatives in the U.S. — all factors that often indicate a person is unlikely to return home after their visa expires. “He clearly appears unqualified.”

Immigration critic says Liberian ebola patient should not have received U.S. visa - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/immigration-critic-says-liberian-ebola-patient-should-not-have-received-us-visa/2014/10/02/62918c2e-4a5d-11e4-a046-120a8a855cca_story.html)

[Villages PL]

What's the difference between Martial Law & Murphy's Law?

Answer: At least twice as much can go wrong under Martial Law.

[cologal]

He received the visa last year and showed the numerous largest risk factors for overstaying a tourist visa:

"Jessica Vaughn, a researcher affiliated with the nonprofit Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, said U.S. officials had made one “mistake” by issuing Duncan a visa last year and a second error by allowing him to enter the country.

“If you look at his circumstances, it should have been really tough for him to qualify for a visa,” Vaughn said. She noted that Duncan reportedly was single, jobless, living away from his home country and had a number of relatives in the U.S. — all factors that often indicate a person is unlikely to return home after their visa expires. “He clearly appears unqualified.”

Immigration critic says Liberian ebola patient should not have received U.S. visa - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/immigration-critic-says-liberian-ebola-patient-should-not-have-received-us-visa/2014/10/02/62918c2e-4a5d-11e4-a046-120a8a855cca_story.html)

"He clearly appears unqualified".... He had a son and was going to marry his girlfriend....the question is his girlfriend a citizen?

[cologal]

No his was much worse.

He knew he was exposed.
He knowingly lied to get aboard the plane in his own words to get treatment in the USA!!

I think you might be a little off base with this claim. He was coming here to marry the mother of his child, the wedding had been setup. This is an article from the Wall Street Journal. If he thought he had been exposed to Ebola he would have said I have Ebola or I have been exposed to Ebola instead of what he said "I have been in West Africa"

Liberian (http://online.wsj.com/articles/liberians-last-days-in-dallas-with-ebola-come-into-focus-1412983466)

if you have an article to support he said "I came to the US for treatment" please share it.

[gomoho]

If Mr. Duncan carried a dying pregnant woman who clearly had Ebola and he didn't know she had ebola even living in a village plagued by it then my guess is he probably didn't lie, but he sure was dumb.

[Chi-Town]

If Mr. Duncan carried a dying pregnant woman who clearly had Ebola and he didn't know she had ebola even living in a village plagued by it then my guess is he probably didn't lie, but he sure was dumb.
Dumb and caring.

[billethkid]

I merely parroted what was reported in the early days of his arrival.....by one of the national news networks.

And yes, after several days the information was never spoken about ever again.

More information that if in fact true merely adds to the volumes of errors made that ALLOWED this man into the country.....

[Sandtrap328]

Ask yourself this.....are you more likely to be infected or beheaded than you were six years ago?

No.

[cologal]

I merely parroted what was reported in the early days of his arrival.....by one of the national news networks.

And yes, after several days the information was never spoken about ever again.

More information that if in fact true merely adds to the volumes of errors made that ALLOWED this man into the country.....

Yes I had heard that he carried a bleeding women but that report said she was having a miscarriage. No report I can find said that he came here for treatment which, I think, is confirmed by the fact didn't say he was exposed to Ebola. Had he said that he might be alive today.

[Nightengale212]

You need to be contacting the CDC, or Osha, or the Health Regulatory Board for your state, or JCAHO, or any other agency you can think of. I don't know if you would have to give your name (in case you are afraid of retribution). But even if your hospital gets angry, what is more important-you and your co-workers being protected from a potentially deadly disease??? or--losing your job? I don't think I would want to work for a hospital who doesn't seem to care about me. !!!!!!!!!!!! Or their patients.

My situation was not unique as I have nurse friends working in various hospitals that were experiencing the same concerns. Since my posting I had an opportunity to meet several times with my nurse manager as well as the chief MD of Primary Care to discuss my concerns and add my hopefully constructive input to the process of handling a suspected Ebola patient. Yesterday we had a department meeting, and I am actually pleased with the process that was presented. As it stands, unless a suspected patient somehow wanders to my office, the smart decision was made to have the infectious disease team take over all triaging and care planning of these patients.

[twinklesweep]

To me this is a medical not a political issue and I have spent my entire adult life in the medical community.

I agree. But is this anything new? There are those who refuse to see ANY issue, not simply this one, in ANY terms OTHER THAN POLITICAL--and often these terms are selective! Their motivation is something I will never understand. Here are a few examples; this list could go on and on....

If states have to raise their public university tuition charges, resulting in, say, working poor no longer able to send their children to college, this is an EDUCATIONAL and ECONOMIC issue--but there are those who see it ONLY in political terms.
If an effort is made so that the U.S. will no longer be the last major first-world nation not to provide universal health care for its residents, this is a SOCIAL and MEDICAL issue--but there are those who see it ONLY in political terms.
If a war is declared to rid a region of nonexistent weapons of mass destruction, this is a MILITARY issue--but there are those who see it ONLY in political terms.

An interesting article from doctors without borders of what it is really like. The international response has been pathetic. This disease can be stopped or at least greatly reduced if those on the front lines had the resources....

The last paragraph in this article gives understanding about how poverty and misuse of the land in other countries affects us all:

"Scientists and epidemiologists know enough now to issue a clear warning. The risk of future Ebola outbreaks will persist as long as pervasive poverty forces large numbers of people, who depend on bushmeat for their very physical and economic survival, to hunt ever deeper in the region’s degraded and rapidly diminishing forests."

I believe first-world countries cannot afford to be isolationists, at least where world health is concerned.

I agree on this point too. But is THIS anything new (to some extent depending on the country)? The attitude, whether domestically or internationally, of "I have mine; the rest of you can go fly a kite [politely put though often not intended politely...]," continues to be alive and well. The very idea that we can even think in isolationist terms--that we can effectively put up a barrier to a virus at our borders (not necessarily ebola; could be influenza or any other serious disease)--is simply unrealistic, and not sharing resources goes beyond shortsightedness!


.... The DC “czar strategy” is designed to make the credulous and lightly informed across the country feel better, “hey, he’s appointed a czar…problem solved!” It’s further designed to take the heat off senior appointed officials who actually have line management responsibility while they scramble to actually solve the problem. However, in this instance, it is also being done with an eye on the calendar for early November. If you deny that, there’s not much else that can be said. As I stated in an earlier post, this technique seems to fool the gullible pretty much every time it’s tried, and not just with this administration I might add....

I had suggested in an earlier post that this position with the unlikely title of "czar" be researched, perhaps by a doctoral candidate, starting with President Reagan's appointment of the first "czar" (relating to the war on drugs, accompanied by the motto "Just say no!") right through to the present. I PARTIALLY agree with the first point in this quote--only partially, though, as the appointment may indeed be extremely effective:

The DC “czar strategy” is designed to make the credulous and lightly informed across the country feel better, “hey, he’s appointed a czar…problem solved!”
And I partially agree with this second point--same reason as above, that is, the appointment may be extremely effective. Someone once sent me a YouTube video of interviews conducted during the Tea Party March on Washington several years ago, and in response to a comment (my wording may not be absolutely accurate) "We don't need no stinkin' czars," when the interviewer pointed out that the first appointee with the "czar" title had been made decades earlier by President Reagan, as mentioned above, the response was utter incredulity!

As I stated in an earlier post, this technique seems to fool the gullible pretty much every time it’s tried, and not just with this administration I might add....

What's the difference between Martial Law & Murphy's Law?

Answer: At least twice as much can go wrong under Martial Law.

Notwithstanding this being a serious subject, thank you for a moment of lightness. We must always remember that "Murphy was an optimist"....

[graciegirl]

///

[graciegirl]

Yes I had heard that he carried a bleeding women but that report said she was having a miscarriage. No report I can find said that he came here for treatment which, I think, is confirmed by the fact didn't say he was exposed to Ebola. Had he said that he might be alive today.


copied from Huffpost;

". He was exposed to Ebola days before his trip.
New York Times reporters have been able to pinpoint exactly when Duncan may have contracted Ebola (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/02/world/africa/ebola-victim-texas-thomas-eric-duncan.html?_r=0). Just four days before his trip to the U.S., he had helped his neighbors transport Marthalene Williams, a sick pregnant woman, to and from a hospital. They were turned away from the hospital for lack of space, and Duncan had helped carry Williams from the car back to her house. She ended up dying early the next morning. "

[TexaninVA]

Here is an article that explains how CDC has a wrongheaded focus on "social justice" (an oxymoron in any event) vs, applying sound science in support of the obvious to combat disease which in this instance would be to institute a travel ban. I term this most unfortunate mental paralysis "PCbola"

Infected by Politics by Heather Mac Donald, City Journal 21 October 2014 (http://www.city-journal.org/2014/eon1021hm.html)

[kittygilchrist]

New York tests doctor who was in West Africa for Ebola | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/23/us-health-ebola-newyork-idUSKCN0IC2CU20141023)

[maddie101]

We have worries because anyone can come back without being in quarantine. This self testing catches it , but it is still here. We need to PREVENT it from coming, not simply catch it in early stages

[Sophie11]

Dr. tested positive for ebola at Beleview hospital NYC

[maddie101]

As per the NY TIMES
Even as the authorities worked to confirm that Mr. Spencer was infected with Ebola, it emerged that he traveled from Manhattan to Brooklyn on the subway on Wednesday night, when he went to a bowling alley, and then took a taxi home.

[nitehawk]

announcers on tv trying to stop a panic --- Nothing to worry about----Time to start to worry

[collie1228]

Last night I heard the doctor who heads the infectious diseases section of CDC say you don't have anything to worry about unless you are a health care worker. Hmmmm. . . . . All those thousands of people dead and dying in West Africa aren't all health care workers, are they? We have to start challenging these people when they make stupid statements.

[graciegirl]

As per the NY TIMES
Even as the authorities worked to confirm that Mr. Spencer was infected with Ebola, it emerged that he traveled from Manhattan to Brooklyn on the subway on Wednesday night, when he went to a bowling alley, and then took a taxi home.

Because the virus is so deadly, if it had been me returning from taking care of patients with Ebola, out of an abundance of caution, I would not have been around anyone, particularly my fiance', until the incubation time had passed. There is no cure. There is no prevention, and the potential for epidemic is very valid.

If we cannot trust our trained medical people to act responsibly, we are in a mess.

And if anyone says anything about having their throat slit or getting sick....I will say something that gets deleted.

[nitehawk]

doctor said he imposed self quarantine -- nice job doc

[nitehawk]

Because the virus is so deadly, if it had been me returning from taking care of patients with Ebola, out of an abundance of caution, I would not have been around anyone, particularly my fiance', until the incubation time had passed. There is no cure. There is no prevention, and the potential for epidemic is very valid.

If we cannot trust our trained medical people to act responsibly, we are in a mess.

And if anyone says anything about having their throat slit or getting sick....I will say something that gets deleted.

please explain ????

[maddie101]

doctor said he imposed self quarantine -- nice job doc

I thought CDC MANDATED no travel bus public transportation after the Amber Vinson flight and then the Carnival Cruise incident. I guess he didn't get the memo.

[cologal]

Because the virus is so deadly, if it had been me returning from taking care of patients with Ebola, out of an abundance of caution, I would not have been around anyone, particularly my fiance', until the incubation time had passed. There is no cure. There is no prevention, and the potential for epidemic is very valid.

If we cannot trust our trained medical people to act responsibly, we are in a mess.

And if anyone says anything about having their throat slit or getting sick....I will say something that gets deleted.

I am sorry Gracie... there is a cure because there are people alive today that had Ebola. This doctor took his temperature twice a day since his return and reported the illness when his temp was only 100.3, which is a very low grade fever. They got him isolated quickly. He was NOT symptomatic when he was on the subway nor at the bowling alley. The person has to be SYMPTOMATIC to be able to transmit the disease.

This doctor did act responsibly...we should also remember that he went to West Africa to help with this deadly outbreak. How many of us would risk our lives to help given the risks?

[cologal]

I thought CDC MANDATED no travel bus public transportation after the Amber Vinson flight and then the Carnival Cruise incident. I guess he didn't get the memo.

The difference is those people were put into a 21 day isolation period but travelled anyway. This doctor was NOT in mandated isolation!! He did do follow the procedure for medical workers who return home by taking his temperature twice day and reported the fever when it was only 100.3.

Please don't bash our medical hero's.....

[janmcn]

The difference is those people were put into a 21 day isolation period but travelled anyway. This doctor was NOT in mandated isolation!! He did do follow the procedure for medical workers who return home by taking his temperature twice day and reported the fever when it was only 100.3.

Please don't bash our medical hero's.....

The doctor also had not returned to his job as an emergency room doctor at New York's Presbyterian Hospital during the ten day period since his return from Guinea.

[maddie101]

He Should have been in mandated isolation in my opinion.

[Sandtrap328]

I am wondering if ALL the posters on this thread have had their flu shot for the 2014-15 flu season - and if those over 65 had the "high dosage" flu shot.

It would also be beneficial to make sure your pneumonia shot is up to date.

We are at a much higher chance of being infected with one of those than ebola.

I have had my flu shot!

[cologal]

He Should have been in mandated isolation in my opinion.

Are you a medical professional? Expert in communicable diseases?

[janmcn]

He Should have been in mandated isolation in my opinion.


Do you check with your Villages' doctors to see if they have recently been in Western Africa, when making an appointment? That might be a good idea.

[janmcn]

Nina Pham, RN, has been declared free of the Ebola virus and will be released from the hospital today. This according to the National Institute of Health, where she has been undergoing treatment.

Amber Vincent, RN, was cured of the disease earlier this week, according to Emory University Hospital.

Ashoka Mukpo, the freelance photojournalist employed by NBC, has also been cured and released from the hospital in Nebraska.

[kittygilchrist]

Nina Pham, RN, has been declared free of the Ebola virus and will be released from the hospital today. This according to the National Institute of Health, where she has been undergoing treatment.

Amber Vincent, RN, was cured of the disease earlier this week, according to Emory University Hospital.

Ashoka Mukpo, the freelance photojournalist employed by NBC, has also been cured and released from the hospital in Nebraska.

All good news, and i am thankful. Early dx and tx. Happy to know this.

[janmcn]

Obama Meets With Dallas Nurse Cured Of Ebola (PHOTOS) (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/obama-meets-nina-pham?utm_content=buffer0ab88&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer)


Here's a link to a photo taken just a short time ago of Nina Pham meeting with President Obama at the White House right after her release from the National Institute of Health in Bethesda, MD. She looks very happy and very healthy.

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/10/24/federal-officials-say-dallas-nurse-nina-pham-is-free-of-ebola/20983605/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D551649

More photos of this happy, happy day for Nurse Nina Pham and her family and the staff who treated her at NIH, as well as the staff at her hospital in Dallas. Plus her dog is doing well and will certainly be happy to see Nina again.

[graciegirl]

The difference is those people were put into a 21 day isolation period but travelled anyway. This doctor was NOT in mandated isolation!! He did do follow the procedure for medical workers who return home by taking his temperature twice day and reported the fever when it was only 100.3.

Please don't bash our medical hero's.....
================================================== ======================

He stopped being a hero to ME when he didn't keep himself away from others. If his fiancé' was YOUR daughter, I would think you would be quite nervous. I NEVER expect anyone else to do something that I wouldn't do myself.

THERE is no cure, as I said. Apparently the body can fight it off, but only in a very small percentage of cases. Keeping the body hydrated is just about the only support that can be given, along with steroids. That isn't a medical cure, it is plain old cussed luck.

And Sandtrap, yes, I. like most people, have my flu shot, my pneumonia shot and my shot for Herpes Zoster. Those kinds of things are not deadly to the overwhelming percentage of the population even if contracted.

The New England Journal of Medicine says that Ebola is deadly in 70 to 90 percentage of cases.

So YES Sandtrap, at this time YOU are in no danger, but the potential for danger is there. I hope you win and you can gloat. I so hope it.

[graciegirl]

Another typical TOTV thread filled with mis information brought to you by the "usual suspects" who are experts on everything.


What mis-information and what experts and what "usual suspects", bimmertl? WHAT DO YOU MEAN????





Eight days ago this from the
New England Journal of Medicine.
OCTOBER 16,2014
Ebola Virus Disease in West Africa — The First 9 Months of the Epidemic and Forward Projections

WHO Ebola Response Team
N Engl J Med 2014; 371:1481-1495October 16, 2014 (http://www.nejm.org/toc/nejm/371/16/)DOI: 10.1056/NEJMoa1411100
http://www.nejm.org/templates/jsp/_style2/_mms/_nejm/img/icon_comment.gif (http://www.nejm.org/templates/jsp/_style2/_mms/_nejm/img/icon_comment.gif) Comments (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100?query=featured_home#discussion) open through October 22, 2014
Share:








AbstractArticleReferencesCiting Articles (2) Comments (14)
Background

On March 23, 2014, the World Health Organization (WHO) was notified of an outbreak of Ebola virus disease (EVD) in Guinea. On August 8, the WHO declared the epidemic to be a “public health emergency of international concern.”
Full Text of Background... (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100?query=featured_home#Background)


Methods

By September 14, 2014, a total of 4507 probable and confirmed cases, including 2296 deaths from EVD (Zaire species) had been reported from five countries in West Africa — Guinea, Liberia, Nigeria, Senegal, and Sierra Leone. We analyzed a detailed subset of data on 3343 confirmed and 667 probable Ebola cases collected in Guinea, Liberia, Nigeria, and Sierra Leone as of September 14.
Full Text of Methods... (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100?query=featured_home#Methods)


Results

The majority of patients are 15 to 44 years of age (49.9% male), and we estimate that the case fatality rate is 70.8% (95% confidence interval [CI], 69 to 73) among persons with known clinical outcome of infection. The course of infection, including signs and symptoms, incubation period (11.4 days), and serial interval (15.3 days), is similar to that reported in previous outbreaks of EVD. On the basis of the initial periods of exponential growth, the estimated basic reproduction numbers (R0 ) are 1.71 (95% CI, 1.44 to 2.01) for Guinea, 1.83 (95% CI, 1.72 to 1.94) for Liberia, and 2.02 (95% CI, 1.79 to 2.26) for Sierra Leone. The estimated current reproduction numbers (R) are 1.81 (95% CI, 1.60 to 2.03) for Guinea, 1.51 (95% CI, 1.41 to 1.60) for Liberia, and 1.38 (95% CI, 1.27 to 1.51) for Sierra Leone; the corresponding doubling times are 15.7 days (95% CI, 12.9 to 20.3) for Guinea, 23.6 days (95% CI, 20.2 to 28.2) for Liberia, and 30.2 days (95% CI, 23.6 to 42.3) for Sierra Leone. Assuming no change in the control measures for this epidemic, by November 2, 2014, the cumulative reported numbers of confirmed and probable cases are predicted to be 5740 in Guinea, 9890 in Liberia, and 5000 in Sierra Leone, exceeding 20,000 in total.
Full Text of Results... (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100?query=featured_home#Results)


Conclusions

These data indicate that without drastic improvements in control measures, the numbers of cases of and deaths from EVD are expected to continue increasing from hundreds to thousands per week in the coming months.
Full Text of Discussion... (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100?query=featured_home#Discussion)


Read the Full Article... (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100?query=featured_home#Top)
__________________

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[pivo]

I wonder who she would be thing of hee hee

[Barefoot]

Post deleted.

[janmcn]

Ebola-Exposed Fliers to Be Quarantined by New York, New Jersey - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-24/n-y-n-j-order-quarantines-for-travelers-with-ebola-contact.html?hootPostID=42bf816bb5719ae09089c5f339 f1bb3a)

New York and New Jersey will quarantine any arriving passengers who had direct contact with Ebola patients. This announcement was made today by the governors of these states. The quarantine will last 21 days. Not too many other details in this Bloomberg View article.

[graciegirl]

ebola-exposed fliers to be quarantined by new york, new jersey - bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-24/n-y-n-j-order-quarantines-for-travelers-with-ebola-contact.html?hootpostid=42bf816bb5719ae09089c5f339 f1bb3a)

new york and new jersey will quarantine any arriving passengers who had direct contact with ebola patients. This announcement was made today by the governors of these states. The quarantine will last 21 days. Not too many other details in this bloomberg view article.

That seems like the safe thing to do. Kudos to them.

[sunnyatlast]

Ebola-Exposed Fliers to Be Quarantined by New York, New Jersey - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-24/n-y-n-j-order-quarantines-for-travelers-with-ebola-contact.html?hootPostID=42bf816bb5719ae09089c5f339 f1bb3a)

New York and New Jersey will quarantine any arriving passengers who had direct contact with Ebola patients. This announcement was made today by the governors of these states. The quarantine will last 21 days. Not too many other details in this Bloomberg View article.

It says this:

"Others who travel from the region and haven’t had direct contact with virus patients will be actively monitored and quarantined only if necessary, they said."

So, just like Duncan (RIP), they can lie and say they didn't have any direct contact with virus patients.

The only way to know where these travelers have been before leaving the African country is to make them wear a GPS ankle bracelet for 3 weeks before getting onto the plane.

In fact, everybody coming into this country from the afflicted countries should wear a monitored ankle bracelet, since both a licensed RN and the dr. in NY--highly educated and intelligent people--didn't think it posed a problem to get onto the plane flights and 4 subway lines in NYC, and more.

People are going to lie rather than be confined for 3 weeks.

[janmcn]

It says this:

"Others who travel from the region and haven’t had direct contact with virus patients will be actively monitored and quarantined only if necessary, they said."

So, just like Duncan (RIP), they can lie and say they didn't have any direct contact with virus patients.

The only way to know where these travelers have been before leaving the African country is to make them wear a GPS ankle bracelet for 3 weeks before getting onto the plane.

In fact, everybody coming into this country from the afflicted countries should wear a monitored ankle bracelet, since both a licensed RN and the dr. in NY--highly educated and intelligent people--didn't think it posed a problem to get onto the plane flights and 4 subway lines in NYC, and more.

People are going to lie rather than be confined for 3 weeks.

All good ideas. Have you forwarded these suggestions to anyone who could put them into action?

Another arrival in Newark has shown symptoms of Ebola tonight.

[sunnyatlast]

This article says the Newark patient was admitted to University Hospital in Newark.

Now. I'm just a citizen with a bachelor's degree.

But I don't see why they didn't take her over to Bellevue Hospital where the infected doctor already is a patient, so they contaminate ONE major hospital, materials, waste disposal systems and staff, instead of two.

Govs Cuomo and Christie are together on this and both have said it straight:

Cuomo: "Voluntary quarantine? NO! It's almost an oxymoron….."

Newark Passenger Who Worked With Ebola Patients Develops Fever (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/24/newark-quarantined-ebola-fever_n_6045262.html)

"

[cologal]

Gracie.....

We all due respect there is a new drug called ZMAPP, I believe that all of the US patients have been given that drug and all 3 survived. In addition the blood of a person who has survived provides needed antibodies. I also read that women who have been cured are now serving as nurses to children infected as these people cannot be reinfected.

US requests production plans for Ebola drug ZMapp | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/10/17/us-requests-production-plans-for-ebola-drug-zmapp/)

As for the doctor I believe he did follow the guidelines for medical personnel returning from that area. If this my daughter I would not be worried because this man was not symptomatic. He took his temp twice a day and reported the fever at 100.3.

The difference is those people were put into a 21 day isolation period but travelled anyway. This doctor was NOT in mandated isolation!! He did do follow the procedure for medical workers who return home by taking his temperature twice day and reported the fever when it was only 100.3.

Please don't bash our medical hero's.....
================================================== ======================

He stopped being a hero to ME when he didn't keep himself away from others. If his fiancé' was YOUR daughter, I would think you would be quite nervous. I NEVER expect anyone else to do something that I wouldn't do myself.

THERE is no cure, as I said. Apparently the body can fight it off, but only in a very small percentage of cases. Keeping the body hydrated is just about the only support that can be given, along with steroids. That isn't a medical cure, it is plain old cussed luck.

And Sandtrap, yes, I. like most people, have my flu shot, my pneumonia shot and my shot for Herpes Zoster. Those kinds of things are not deadly to the overwhelming percentage of the population even if contracted.

The New England Journal of Medicine says that Ebola is deadly in 70 to 90 percentage of cases.

So YES Sandtrap, at this time YOU are in no danger, but the potential for danger is there. I hope you win and you can gloat. I so hope it.

[graciegirl]

AND how about the "limbo" time between the temperature taking when the fever starts beginning to rise and the little varmints begin to grow and come to the mucosa..... You see I have been a mother and I know how to worry.

A person can become cured by surviving the virus but there is not at this time a medication that can be called a cure. Blood transfusions from people that survive have been effective and zmapp is being used but has not been in a clinical trial.
ZMapp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZMapp)

If it were my daughter, I would be terribly worried. And a man can have the live Evola virus in semen for up to six weeks after his blood is testing free of the virus. There is so much unknown about this disease.

We are talking about a virus here, not an attitude. Any person with common sense would be in deadly fear of that virus.

[sunnyatlast]

Here's more on ZMAPP. They ran out of it in August, so I doubt nurses Pham and Vinson received it.

This article shows the painstaking, slow process of making it, and they emphasize that no clinical trials have been done on it to know if any person actually benefits from it. They don't know if it helped Dr. Brantley or not, as he got it on the 9th day. They're working on it……..

Ebola 'Secret Serum': Small Biopharma, The Army, And Big Tobacco - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidkroll/2014/08/05/ebola-secret-serum-small-biopharma-the-army-and-big-tobacco/)

[BarryRX]

and after about a million posts on this subject and tons of hysteria, more people have been married by Kim Kardeshian than have died from ebola in the US. Let the flaming begin.....

[graciegirl]

and after about a million posts on this subject and tons of hysteria, more people have been married by Kim Kardeshian than have died from ebola in the US. Let the flaming begin.....


Thank God.

http://thewestsidestory.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Ebola-Virus.jpg

[janmcn]

and after about a million posts on this subject and tons of hysteria, more people have been married by Kim Kardeshian than have died from ebola in the US. Let the flaming begin.....


And twice as many people died of gunshot wounds this month in The Villages than have died of Ebola in the entire US.

[sunnyatlast]

Gunshot death is not contagious by being in close contact with the public, and gunshot wounds are not fatal in 70-90% of cases.

Diverting attention away from a wildly mutating, heinous suffering-causing virus with no cure, to point at gun ownership in TV and that agenda is just pathetic.

[BarryRX]

[QUOTE=sunnyatlast;958148]Gunshot death is not contagious by being in close contact with the public, and gunshot wounds are not fatal in 70-90% of cases.

Diverting attention away from a wildly mutating, heinous suffering-causing virus with no cure, to point at gun ownership in TV and that agenda is just pathetic.

That's not the point he was making. That was the point you wanted to hear him making.

[graciegirl]

[QUOTE=sunnyatlast;958148]Gunshot death is not contagious by being in close contact with the public, and gunshot wounds are not fatal in 70-90% of cases.

Diverting attention away from a wildly mutating, heinous suffering-causing virus with no cure, to point at gun ownership in TV and that agenda is just pathetic.

That's not the point he was making. That was the point you wanted to hear him making.


Umm.. HE is a she.

[Chi-Town]

The Ebola.com web domain just sold for over $200,000.

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/the-ebola-com-domain-just-sold-for-200-000-100849257029.html

[cologal]

Gunshot death is not contagious by being in close contact with the public, and gunshot wounds are not fatal in 70-90% of cases.

Diverting attention away from a wildly mutating, heinous suffering-causing virus with no cure, to point at gun ownership in TV and that agenda is just pathetic.

A man shot his wife in the back because she wanted a divorce. Coward. The previous post is only a statement of fact!!!

[graciegirl]

Dr. Craig Spencer getting experimental anti-viral drug Brincidofovir to fight Ebola: officials - NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/dr-craig-spencer-experimental-anti-viral-drug-brincidofovir-fight-ebola-officials-article-1.1986996)

[BarryRX]

Ebola is three syllables and Obama is three syllables. Why hasn't the lame stream media pointed that out yet? (Please imagine smiley emoticon here).

[cologal]

Dr. Craig Spencer getting experimental anti-viral drug Brincidofovir to fight Ebola: officials* - NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/dr-craig-spencer-experimental-anti-viral-drug-brincidofovir-fight-ebola-officials-article-1.1986996)

That's the other one... Teva is ramping up Zmapp.

[Sandtrap328]

Even though it was done as a photo op, do you honestly feel that Pres. Obama would have a hug with an Ebola recovered patient if there was any chance she was still infectious on the day she was released from the hospital?

Remember the picture posted by Gracie - if there was any remote possibility that could happen to the President, I am sure he would not take the risk.

[graciegirl]

Ebola is three syllables and Obama is three syllables. Why hasn't the lame stream media pointed that out yet? (Please imagine smiley emoticon here).


It is interesting to me that all three of the major news channels seem to be saying the same thing. Even those who ask "experts" thinking they will say it is "no big deal" are a bit surprised that the experts think it is indeed a big deal.

This is one hellish disease. No concrete cure and no way to prevent it other than containment. As I said before, Thank heavens it has gone no further and hope it will not go further, but I am relieved that three states have made quarantine mandatory for health care workers who dealt with Ebola and are returning to this country. It is a virus, with no agenda, no feelings no plan. It does what it does, it enters an organism and causes hemorrhage in all tissues. And it kills.

[sunnyatlast]

Even though it was done as a photo op, do you honestly feel that Pres. Obama would have a hug with an Ebola recovered patient if there was any chance she was still infectious on the day she was released from the hospital?

Remember the picture posted by Gracie - if there was any remote possibility that could happen to the President, I am sure he would not take the risk.

I didn't see anybody claiming that Miss Pham wasn't really over this disease or that she might still be contagious.

I thought the big hug picture of the president hugging her was wonderful, even though it probably was mostly a photo-op to further promote the message that 'there's nothing to worry about'.

Nina Pham certainly deserves to share a triumphant moment with the president and she'll remember it all her life. Maybe pictures of the triumphant moments like that will get her thru flashbacks from post-traumatic stress disorder she could have, after all these weeks of fleeing from the invisible killer that was chasing her…..while "experts" and armchair epidemiologists keep claiming it's just "hysteria" over nothing.

[kittygilchrist]

Even though it was done as a photo op, do you honestly feel that Pres. Obama would have a hug with an Ebola recovered patient if there was any chance she was still infectious on the day she was released from the hospital?

Remember the picture posted by Gracie - if there was any remote possibility that could happen to the President, I am sure he would not take the risk.

Yes, I honestly do. Taking unreasonable risks? Yes indeed.

[billethkid]

I didn't see anybody claiming that Miss Pham wasn't really over this disease or that she might still be contagious.

I thought the big hug picture of the president hugging her was wonderful, even though it probably was mostly a photo-op to further promote the message that 'there's nothing to worry about'.

Nina Pham certainly deserves to share a triumphant moment with the president and she'll remember it all her life. Maybe pictures of the triumphant moments like that will get her thru flashbacks from post-traumatic stress disorder she could have, after all these weeks of fleeing from the invisible killer that was chasing her…..while "experts" and armchair epidemiologists keep claiming it's just "hysteria" over nothing.

May I correct the highlighted portion above?
What and when he does anything it is to further promote Obama, only and always!

[Chi-Town]

NJ, NY, and Illinois have put a 21 day quarantine on returning workers who have been exposed to the virus. Good luck to getting future volunteers to aid those stricken countries.

[billethkid]

NJ, NY, and Illinois have put a 21 day quarantine on returning workers who have been exposed to the virus. Good luck to getting future volunteers to aid those stricken countries.

So is the issue inconvenience?
I did not know convenience was a factor in quarantines or volunteering!

[janmcn]

NJ, NY, and Illinois have put a 21 day quarantine on returning workers who have been exposed to the virus. Good luck to getting future volunteers to aid those stricken countries.


There is no quarantine in VA or GA at this time, so exposed workers can still fly into Dulles or Atlanta without any delay and continue on their way.

The executive action taken by Gov Scott in FL doesn't call for a mandatory quarantine, but monitoring for all passengers arriving from one of the infected countries.

[Chi-Town]

Here is an interesting interview with a quarantined nurse in New Jersey:

http://www.cnn.com//2014/10/26/health/new-jersey-quarantined-nurse/index.html

[graciegirl]

There is no quarantine in VA or GA at this time, so exposed workers can still fly into Dulles or Atlanta without any delay and continue on their way.

The executive action taken by Gov Scott in FL doesn't call for a mandatory quarantine, but monitoring for all passengers arriving from one of the infected countries.


It may get stricter after the election.

[billethkid]

Here is an interesting interview with a quarantined nurse in New Jersey:

Quarantined nurse knocks Ebola policy - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com//2014/10/26/health/new-jersey-quarantined-nurse/index.html)

And in today's society if she was quarantined in her house the interview woud have the same tone. Once again quarantines like being in a hospital are no fun....who said they were supposed to be.

Some of us remember what it was like to be quaranteened when someone got measels or mumps or a child hood disease. The big difference then and now? We knew it was for the good of everybody and there was no 24/7 sensationalizing by the media.

It should be noted that the quarantine is to ensure the that a deadly disease is not transmitted to others....three weeks inconvenience for the greater good. No big deal. No media huff and puff required. Just plain old COMMON SENSE!!

[graciegirl]

"Quarantined nurse to CNN: 'My basic human rights' are being violated"

I say" Our basic human rights are being violated if she isn't quarantined".

I don't understand that people would say that this may keep people from volunteering to go to Africa to help people with Ebola.


I don't get that as an argument at all. I JUST don't understand. EXCEPT...she is very young and it is all about her.

[janmcn]

"Quarantined nurse to CNN: 'My basic human rights' are being violated"

I say" Our basic human rights are being violated if she isn't quarantined".

I don't understand that people would say that this may keep people from volunteering to go to Africa to help people with Ebola.


I don't get that as an argument at all. I JUST don't understand. EXCEPT...she is very young and it is all about her.


When doctors volunteer to work for Doctors Without Borders for four or eight weeks, they leave their practice or place of employment for that period of time. A lot of times their families (especially their kids) don't want them to leave for that long. Adding three weeks to an eight week stint would make it out of the question for some who would volunteer.

To say that a young doctor who just returned from working with Ebola patients in Sierra Leone is "very young and it is all about her" is unimaginable.

[graciegirl]

When doctors volunteer to work for Doctors Without Borders for four or eight weeks, they leave their practice or place of employment for that period of time. A lot of times their families (especially their kids) don't want them to leave for that long. Adding three weeks to an eight week stint would make it out of the question for some who would volunteer.

To say that a young doctor who just returned from working with Ebola patients in Sierra Leone is "very young and it is all about her" is unimaginable.

She is a nurse. And apparently it isn't.

[Chi-Town]

When doctors volunteer to work for Doctors Without Borders for four or eight weeks, they leave their practice or place of employment for that period of time. A lot of times their families (especially their kids) don't want them to leave for that long. Adding three weeks to an eight week stint would make it out of the question for some who would volunteer.

To say that a young doctor who just returned from working with Ebola patients in Sierra Leone is "very young and it is all about her" is unimaginable.

When a nurse or doctor volunteers to work for Doctors Without Borders they almost always end up in a part of the world that is war torn or disease ridden. I would doubt that person would be cast as selfish or all about themselves. Unimaginable is a good summation.

[graciegirl]

When a nurse or doctor volunteers to work for Doctors Without Borders they almost always end up in a part of the world that is war torn or disease ridden. I would doubt that person would be cast as selfish or all about themselves. Unimaginable is a good summation.


Well Chi-town, along with those glorious aspirations of helping the poor and sick comes the reality that part of the deal is to NOT carry their illness back to your family and city and state and country.

It is part of the reality of life. She was complaining about something that was part of her commitment. It sounded good but it was harder than she thought. THAT is the reality of medicine and the reality of life.

[sunnyatlast]

Well, this new law in NJ and NY didn't come about until a nurse from Dallas and a doctor now infected with ebola in NYC showed how people with top-tier educations and medical licenses "self-monitor" or "self quarantine" themselves by going on 4 subway lines, busiest international airports, 2-3 airline flights, (and the Frontier plane then went on 26 flights across the continent before Vinson was diagnosed), etc.

THEY decided they were not a potential contagious disease threat to others, but the doctor in NY certainly was wrong.

They and this nurse in NJ are not the ones who are supposed to be declaring themselves "ebola free" and not contagious before even being tested once and again within 72 hours.

Their individual "rights" to trot all over the place in NY, Newark, Dallas and Cleveland do not supersede the millions of people living and working in those huge metro areas!

[Chi-Town]

Well Chi-town, along with those glorious aspirations of helping the poor and sick comes the reality that part of the deal is to NOT carry their illness back to your family and city and state and country.

It is part of the reality of life. She was complaining about something that was part of her commitment. It sounded good but it was harder than she thought. THAT is the reality of medicine and the reality of life.

I understand what you are saying GG. But living in a tent with a toilet that doesn't flush and wearing paper clothes could make one a bit testy. She probably had enough of that in Sierra Leone. I wish there were a quicker test to see if someone's infected.

[sunnyatlast]

I understand what you are saying GG. But living in a tent with a toilet that doesn't flush and wearing paper clothes could make one a bit testy. She probably had enough of that in Sierra Leone. I wish there were a quicker test to see if someone's infected.

I wish Doctors Without Borders had monitored a few days and then tested the returning workers THERE, twice and 72 hours apart, before letting them go on airliners thru Brussels, NY, Newark and Washington Dulles, subjecting two other continents to potential carriers of the virus!

[graciegirl]

I understand what you are saying GG. But living in a tent with a toilet that doesn't flush and wearing paper clothes could make one a bit testy. She probably had enough of that in Sierra Leone. I wish there were a quicker test to see if someone's infected.

I see your point clearly, and I TOO wish there was a quicker test to see if someone is harboring the virus.

Life moderates young idealistic behavior.

[janmcn]

Well, this new law in NJ and NY didn't come about until a nurse from Dallas and a doctor now infected with ebola in NYC showed how people with top-tier educations and medical licenses "self-monitor" or "self quarantine" themselves by going on 4 subway lines, busiest international airports, 2-3 airline flights, (and the Frontier plane then went on 26 flights across the continent before Vinson was diagnosed), etc.

THEY decided they were not a potential contagious disease threat to others, but the doctor in NY certainly was wrong.

They and this nurse in NJ are not the ones who are supposed to be declaring themselves "ebola free" and not contagious before even being tested once and again within 72 hours.

Their individual "rights" to trot all over the place in NY, Newark, Dallas and Cleveland do not supersede the millions of people living and working in those huge metro areas!


Whatever happened to the 200 plus residents of Ohio who were under quarantine after the nurse visited there? Have they been cleared yet? Have any of them developed the disease? Hopefully no snowbirds from Ohio will return to The Villages and start slobbering all over people.

What is plan B if Doctors Without Borders pulls their staff out of these West Africa countries?

Doctors Without Borders slams N.J.'s treatment of Ebola nurse | NJ.com (http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2014/10/doctors_without_borders_slams_njs_treatment_of_ebo la_nurse.html)


IMO, an airplane should be chartered to take this young nurse home as soon as she can safely be moved. When she became quarantined, she did not give up her right to free speech. The governor did not think this event was serious enough to stick around NJ.

[graciegirl]

Whatever happened to the 200 plus residents of Ohio who were under quarantine after the nurse visited there? Have they been cleared yet? Have any of them developed the disease? Hopefully no snowbirds from Ohio will return to The Villages and start slobbering all over people.

What is plan B if Doctors Without Borders pulls their staff out of these West Africa countries?

Doctors Without Borders slams N.J.'s treatment of Ebola nurse | NJ.com (http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2014/10/doctors_without_borders_slams_njs_treatment_of_ebo la_nurse.html)


IMO, an airplane should be chartered to take this young nurse home as soon as she can safely be moved. When she became quarantined, she did not give up her right to free speech. The governor did not think this event was serious enough to stick around NJ.


In Ohio they are still under watch..http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2014/10/no_ebola_cases_in_ohio_3_quara.html


As for YOUR wonderful young nurse....Now she has used her right to "lawyer up".

BTW....Nigeria, who has had a much bigger problem with Ebola has a similar problem, a nurse breaking quarantine.

This is how they handled it.

http://saharareporters.com/2014/08/14/nurse-who-skipped-ebola-quarantine-travel-enugu-transported-back-lagos-
special-ambulance


AN OUNCE of PREVENTION is worth a pound of CURE.
It is better to be safe than sorry.

I am hoping, literally PRAYING for all the people who think we are being way too over cautious to be RIGHT.

[Nightengale212]

Last year I had an outbreak of shingles on the back of my head and was taken out of work for two weeks so I would not be a health threat to the patients in my care and coworkers and was glad to comply with this restriction. This nurse who provided direct care to likely large numbers of ebola patients and her having an issue with being quarantined is beyond belief to this nurse.

[gomoho]

Last year I had an outbreak of shingles on the back of my head and was taken out of work for two weeks so I would not be a health threat to the patients in my care and coworkers and was glad to comply with this restriction. This nurse who provided direct care to likely large numbers of ebola patients and her having an issue with being quarantined is beyond belief to this nurse.

However, I assume you were quarantined in the comfort of your own home and had not just returned from an exhausting volunteer service in Africa.
Not saying if the quarantine of this nurse is right or wrong but can certainly understand her distress and think she should be thanked for her service and maybe shown some compassion.

[sunnyatlast]

However, I assume you were quarantined in the comfort of your own home and had not just returned from an exhausting volunteer service in Africa.
Not saying if the quarantine of this nurse is right or wrong but can certainly understand her distress and think she should be thanked for her service and maybe shown some compassion.

Doctors Without Borders, having Total Net Assets of $166,000,000 as a 501c3 organization according to their financial statements, can surely afford to test these workers and provide decent R&R or vacation style lodging for them IN Liberia, Sierra Leone or Guinea, "self quarantining" them in relaxation and relative comfort as a way of saying Thank You for their service.

And surely these host countries could provide some R&R type lodging for these workers for 2-3 weeks of testing and quarantine before getting onto intercontinental, international flights into 2 more continents, as a way of saying Thank You for their free service to the nation.

But that wouldn't make headlines on HuffPo, Drudge, MSNBC, etc.

https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/sites/usa/files/doctors_without_borders_financial_statements_-_final_20140429.pdf

[kittygilchrist]

Ask your self this......are you more likely to be infected or beheaded today than six years ago?

Yes, I am.
I was praying at the Syrian border of Israel in Sept watching terrorist bombs explode.
Does the distance of a few hours plane flight make you and your loved ones immune to terror and pestilence?
They can come here as easily as I went there.
Wake up, USA.

[janmcn]

However, I assume you were quarantined in the comfort of your own home and had not just returned from an exhausting volunteer service in Africa.
Not saying if the quarantine of this nurse is right or wrong but can certainly understand her distress and think she should be thanked for her service and maybe shown some compassion.


If this nurse's return trip had been booked through Atlanta or Dulles (as Thomas Duncan was) she would be home sleeping in her own bed now. There is no mandatory quarantine in VA or GA, or in Texas where this all started. Just a thought.

[janmcn]

MSF Nurse Held in Isolation in New Jersey | MSF USA (http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/article/msf-nurse-held-isolation-new-jersey)


While Gov Cuomo has announced that patients under quarantine can be monitored at home, the MSF nurse is being held in New Jersey in isolation in an unheated tent in a parking lot with paper scrubs and a portable toilet, and no shower.

[sunnyatlast]

If this nurse's return trip had been booked through Atlanta or Dulles (as Thomas Duncan was) she would be home sleeping in her own bed now. There is no mandatory quarantine in VA or GA, or in Texas where this all started. Just a thought.

And Doctors Without Borders could advise on all of that.

[janmcn]

And Doctors Without Borders could advise on all of that.

The thing is this nurse was on the plane half way over the Atlantic when this advisory was signed and went into effect,

[dbussone]

Yes, I am.
I was praying at the Syrian border of Israel in Sept watching terrorist bombs explode.
Does the distance of a few hours plane flight make you and your loved ones immune to terror and pestilence?
They can come here as easily as I went there.
Wake up, USA.


Now that's a Call to Action!

[cologal]

So is the issue inconvenience?
I did not know convenience was a factor in quarantines or volunteering!

There is no medical reason to quarantine, for 21 days, medical personnel returning from fighting this terrible disease. It is better to fight it in Africa than back here in the US. Now 3 governors have decided, against the advice of the medical experts, to politicize the issue.

A nurse without a fever and no symptoms has been treated, in her own words, as a criminal and will be held for 21 days.

Good luck finding medical personnel to risk their lives on the front lines only to return to a mandatory quarantine.

I for one hope that no one in NYC get sick and this treatment of medical heroes is called off.

[cologal]

And in today's society if she was quarantined in her house the interview woud have the same tone. Once again quarantines like being in a hospital are no fun....who said they were supposed to be.

Some of us remember what it was like to be quaranteened when someone got measels or mumps or a child hood disease. The big difference then and now? We knew it was for the good of everybody and there was no 24/7 sensationalizing by the media.

It should be noted that the quarantine is to ensure the that a deadly disease is not transmitted to others....three weeks inconvenience for the greater good. No big deal. No media huff and puff required. Just plain old COMMON SENSE!!

For the greater good in whose option? I suffered from being patted down since 9/11 twice a week just because I had an artificial knee "for the greater good" and never once did I have a bomb in my bra.... In my final 2 years of flying I travelled 140 miles round trip to have access to a scanner, instead of a metal detector, to avoid being patted down. And no one was 1 bit safer from my additional screening. So you might ask why I travelled so far.... because I was both physically and sexually abused as a child. To have a stranger pat me down was very difficult for me as you might expect....

It might be good for you....but for me it was terrifying.

[dbussone]

There is no medical reason to quarantine, for 21 days, medical personnel returning from fighting this terrible disease. It is better to fight it in Africa than back here in the US. Now 3 governors have decided, against the advice of the medical experts, to politicize the issue.



A nurse without a fever and no symptoms has been treated, in her own words, as a criminal and will be held for 21 days.



Good luck finding medical personnel to risk their lives on the front lines only to return to a mandatory quarantine.



I for one hope that no one in NYC get sick and this treatment of medical heroes is called off.


I'm sorry. But with all due respect I disagree. Quarantines have successfully been used for decades to prevent the spread of disease, I.e., tuberculosis, etc. Actually the period of quarantine should be longer since research has demonstrated that 21 days only covers 88% of those exposed.

[cologal]

MSF Nurse Held in Isolation in New Jersey | MSF USA (http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/article/msf-nurse-held-isolation-new-jersey)


While Gov Cuomo has announced that patients under quarantine can be monitored at home, the MSF nurse is being held in New Jersey in isolation in an unheated tent in a parking lot with paper scrubs and a portable toilet, and no shower.

This is ridiculous...... she should get a lawyer and sue the state of New Jersey!!!!

[graciegirl]

There is no medical reason to quarantine, for 21 days, medical personnel returning from fighting this terrible disease. It is better to fight it in Africa than back here in the US. Now 3 governors have decided, against the advice of the medical experts, to politicize the issue.

A nurse without a fever and no symptoms has been treated, in her own words, as a criminal and will be held for 21 days.

Good luck finding medical personnel to risk their lives on the front lines only to return to a mandatory quarantine.

I for one hope that no one in NYC get sick and this treatment of medical heroes is called off.

I THINK...that three governors have decided to medicalize a political issue.

[dbussone]

I THINK...that three governors have decided to medicalize a political issue.


Absolutely correct.

[sunnyatlast]

MSF Nurse Held in Isolation in New Jersey | MSF USA (http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/article/msf-nurse-held-isolation-new-jersey)


While Gov Cuomo has announced that patients under quarantine can be monitored at home, the MSF nurse is being held in New Jersey in isolation in an unheated tent in a parking lot with paper scrubs and a portable toilet, and no shower.

That's not what this CNN report says:

"Kaci Hickox, a nurse under mandatory quarantine for Ebola monitoring in New Jersey, sent CNN this image of the tent where she is being isolated in a New Jersey Hospital on Sunday, October 26. Hospital officials told CNN the indoor tent is in a climate-controlled extended-care facility adjacent to the hospital."

This text shows up in the first still photo under the Story Highlights on the left side.

It does sound awful for her, but this says she does have heat and the tent is in a building.

Quarantined nurse slams state Ebola policy - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/26/health/new-jersey-quarantined-nurse/index.html)

[VT2TV]

IMHO, the very best thing that could be done is to CLOSE ALL BORDERS to non US citizens, period. All the prevention being done is not as effective as closing borders. There are way too many breaks in protocol, precautions, and treatment and screening is not consistent. Like someone posted, it would still be very easy for someone with ebola to slip through the cracks when entering the US through the many "screening areas" because of the lack of training, knowledge, and supplies needed to immediately quarantine an infected individual-assuming that they were even correctly identified. Without proper education, PROPER quarantine areas, and stopping the threat in general, we could be in for one of the worst health crisis our generation has ever seen. It could be likened to Ebola being 1 single match, and this country being covered with nothing but dry wood. And no, I am not being an alarmist, but this country needs to be pro-active to not letting this disease get out of control.

[sunnyatlast]

It's interesting how, on the same day NJ and NY governors decided to have the mandatory quarantine of returning workers from ebola hot zones, the Obama administration and CDC were considering the very same thing:

By David Martosko, Us Political Editor for MailOnline and Reuters

Published: 20:21 GMT, 24 October 2014 | Updated: 21:33 GMT, 24 October 2014

The Obama administration is considering imposing a forced quarantine on healthcare workers who return to the United States from the Ebola hot zone of West Africa, after a New York doctor who treated patients there tested positive for the virus on Thursday.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention spokesman Tom Skinner told Reuters on Friday that a mandatory quarantine is one possible plan under discussion by officials from across the administration.

[cologal]

I THINK...that three governors have decided to medicalize a political issue.

This woman has NO symptoms and no temperature....why is she being held?

She is getting a lawyer

Quarantined Nurse Kaci Hickox Calls Her Treatment 'Inhumane', Criticizes Chris Christie (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/26/kaci-hickox-quarantine_n_6050312.html?ir=Politics)

[JB in TV]

It's interesting how, on the same day NJ and NY governors decided to have the mandatory quarantine of returning workers from ebola hot zones, the Obama administration and CDC were considering the very same thing:

By David Martosko, Us Political Editor for MailOnline and Reuters

Published: 20:21 GMT, 24 October 2014 | Updated: 21:33 GMT, 24 October 2014

The Obama administration is considering imposing a forced quarantine on healthcare workers who return to the United States from the Ebola hot zone of West Africa, after a New York doctor who treated patients there tested positive for the virus on Thursday.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention spokesman Tom Skinner told Reuters on Friday that a mandatory quarantine is one possible plan under discussion by officials from across the administration.


Yeah, and now the White House is putting pressure on those states to end their quarantine.

White House Presses States To End Ebola Quarantine: Report (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/26/white-house-ebola-quarantine_n_6050448.html)

This white house doesn't like it when states do things they think should be done by the feds.

[cologal]

That's not what this CNN report says:

"Kaci Hickox, a nurse under mandatory quarantine for Ebola monitoring in New Jersey, sent CNN this image of the tent where she is being isolated in a New Jersey Hospital on Sunday, October 26. Hospital officials told CNN the indoor tent is in a climate-controlled extended-care facility adjacent to the hospital."

This text shows up in the first still photo under the Story Highlights on the left side.

It does sound awful for her, but this says she does have heat and the tent is in a building.

Quarantined nurse slams state Ebola policy - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/26/health/new-jersey-quarantined-nurse/index.html)

But she has no symptoms... so why is she being held?

[sunnyatlast]

But she has no symptoms... so why is she being held?

Maybe because a fair number of ebola victims don't get fever:

Yet the largest study of the current outbreak found that in nearly 13% of "confirmed and probable" cases in Liberia, Sierra Leone, Guinea and elsewhere, those infected did not have fevers.

The study, sponsored by the World Health Organization and published online late last month by the New England Journal of Medicine, analyzed data on 3,343 confirmed and 667 probable cases of Ebola.

The finding that 87.1% of those infected exhibited fever — but 12.9% did not — illustrates the challenges confronting health authorities as they struggle to contain the epidemic.


Ebola research: Fever not a surefire sign of infection - LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-1012-ebola-fever-20141012-story.html#page=1)

[JB in TV]

Maybe because a fair number of ebola victims don't get fever:

Yet the largest study of the current outbreak found that in nearly 13% of "confirmed and probable" cases in Liberia, Sierra Leone, Guinea and elsewhere, those infected did not have fevers.

The study, sponsored by the World Health Organization and published online late last month by the New England Journal of Medicine, analyzed data on 3,343 confirmed and 667 probable cases of Ebola.

The finding that 87.1% of those infected exhibited fever — but 12.9% did not — illustrates the challenges confronting health authorities as they struggle to contain the epidemic.


Ebola research: Fever not a surefire sign of infection - LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-1012-ebola-fever-20141012-story.html#page=1)

Which would further invalidate checking temperatures as a means to determine if an airline passenger (or anyone, for that matter) is infected with Ebola.

[sunnyatlast]

Which would further invalidate checking temperatures as a means to determine if an airline passenger (or anyone, for that matter) is infected with Ebola.

Yes, but it appeases somebody and so that's good enough for most politicians.

They're not going to admit this virus can't be controlled except for the "dreaded" quarantine.

But if people think a quarantine is "dreaded", they ought to think about having ebola. Far worse than 21 days of solitary boredom while in good health.

[cologal]

Maybe because a fair number of ebola victims don't get fever:

Yet the largest study of the current outbreak found that in nearly 13% of "confirmed and probable" cases in Liberia, Sierra Leone, Guinea and elsewhere, those infected did not have fevers.

The study, sponsored by the World Health Organization and published online late last month by the New England Journal of Medicine, analyzed data on 3,343 confirmed and 667 probable cases of Ebola.

The finding that 87.1% of those infected exhibited fever — but 12.9% did not — illustrates the challenges confronting health authorities as they struggle to contain the epidemic.


Ebola research: Fever not a surefire sign of infection - LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-1012-ebola-fever-20141012-story.html#page=1)

She was given an Ebola test.... it was NEGATIVE

[cologal]

Yes, but it appeases somebody and so that's good enough for most politicians.

They're not going to admit this virus can't be controlled except for the "dreaded" quarantine.

But if people think a quarantine is "dreaded", they ought to think about having ebola. Far worse than 21 days of solitary boredom while in good health.

As long as you are not the one in quarantine when you have been tested for Ebola and the test was negative.

[cologal]

Which would further invalidate checking temperatures as a means to determine if an airline passenger (or anyone, for that matter) is infected with Ebola.

Then why is the American government doing this at 5 airports?

[JB in TV]

Then why is the American government doing this at 5 airports?

I suspect because they think it shows that they are doing something to try to control this terrible illness, without fear of being accused of infringing on personal rights. It seems (to me) it is all about image.

[graciegirl]

She was given an Ebola test.... it was NEGATIVE

Who knows if she will present with the disease? Maybe she will not. The doctor was not ill for a while and now he is ill.

I know that most of the people I know would not challenge a quarantine, in the same situation. I call that responsible behavior.

Why are you so intent on this? How will you feel if she does become ill? How do you know for certain that she will not become ill? How does she know for certain she will not become ill? If she cared enough to go and help patients that were ill in another country, it seems that she should care enough to protect people in this country. Your idea of what is right and mine are far different.

[cologal]

I suspect because they think it shows that they are doing something to try to control this terrible illness, without fear of being accused of infringing on personal rights. It seems (to me) it is all about image.

Similar making all of us walk through metal detectors, in a large number of airports, which do not find non metal devices.

All show

[cologal]

Who knows if she will present with the disease? Maybe she will not. The doctor was not ill for a while and now he is ill.

I know that most of the people I know would not challenge a quarantine, in the same situation. I call that responsible behavior.

Why are you so intent on this? How will you feel if she does become ill? How do you know for certain that she will not become ill? How does she know for certain she will not become ill? If she cared enough to go and help patients that were ill in another country, it seems that she should care enough to protect people in this country. Your idea of what is right and mine are far different.

Gracie perhaps you missed the message I posted about my personal experiences with airport security.

Put yourself in her shoes.... she is not sick, no symptoms means she cannot pass the disease to anyone. She has been tested for Ebola with a negative result.

She cared enough to put herself in harms way to help but if she is not symptomatic then putting her in isolation is NOT protecting anyone. She could be at home instead in a tent without a shower and only a porta potty.

I really don't our ideas of right and wrong are that much different however, our understanding of Ebola transmission is completely different. I am also concerned that other medical professionals will respond negatively to these rules...we have a much better keeping this disease away from our shores by treating it in Africa.

We should know more soon if know one gets sick in NYC from the doctor and this nurse remains Ebola free.

[billethkid]

Has it been proven more than once here in the USA that one Can pass the test today and have a fever tomorrow?
The answer is yes.
The next control point is to quarantine those exposed.....like it or not!
Wait and see is not the way to protect we the people.

[JB in TV]

NY lossens it's quarantine guidelines:

Andrew Cuomo Defends Ebola Quarantines But Loosens Policy (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/26/andrew-cuomo-ebola-quarantines_n_6051470.html)

[cologal]

Has it been proven more than once here in the USA that one Can pass the test today and have a fever tomorrow?
The answer is yes.
The next control point is to quarantine those exposed.....like it or not!
Wait and see is not the way to protect we the people.

We the people have been wrong... Remember the internment camps?

[gomoho]

Gracie perhaps you missed the message I posted about my personal experiences with airport security.

Put yourself in her shoes.... she is not sick, no symptoms means she cannot pass the disease to anyone. She has been tested for Ebola with a negative result.

She cared enough to put herself in harms way to help but if she is not symptomatic then putting her in isolation is NOT protecting anyone. She could be at home instead in a tent without a shower and only a porta potty.

I really don't our ideas of right and wrong are that much different however, our understanding of Ebola transmission is completely different. I am also concerned that other medical professionals will respond negatively to these rules...we have a much better keeping this disease away from our shores by treating it in Africa.

We should know more soon if know one gets sick in NYC from the doctor and this nurse remains Ebola free.


Cologal - unfortunately Dr. Spencer used poor judgement and was about and about in NYC after his return from treating Ebola patients. He now is in the hospital fighting for his life. As a direct result the governor's felt this was the only way to control the possibility of potentially spreading this disease. I agree the CDC says you are not infectious until you present with symptoms; however, the CDC has been caught with their pants down too many times trying to deal with this and quite honestly people don't have much faith in anything they say at this point.

[gomoho]

NY lossens it's quarantine guidelines:

Andrew Cuomo Defends Ebola Quarantines But Loosens Policy (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/26/andrew-cuomo-ebola-quarantines_n_6051470.html)

This new policy allows you to have visitors during your quarantine period. Sounds more like house arrest than a quarantine. I don't have any answers just thinking out loud each time they make a move. This certainly is too serious an issue to be making it up as we go along.

[twinklesweep]

We the people have been wrong... Remember the internment camps?

Though this is a different subject, rest assured that there are those who would disagree with you (and me) that the internment camps were morally repugnant and simply outrageous.

And for those who are not familiar with the history, during World War II we were fighting three primary enemies: Germany, Italy, and Japan. Americans of Japanese descent were rounded up, taken from their homes, businesses, jobs, lives, and put into internment camps for the duration of the war. Rest assured that Americans of German and Italian descent were NOT treated this way!

Racism was alive and well during those times, and in my opinion it is still true today. In recent years I have heard more overt racist remarks here in TV than I had in several decades preceding. But as I said, this is a whole other subject....

[cologal]

Cologal - unfortunately Dr. Spencer used poor judgement and was about and about in NYC after his return from treating Ebola patients. He now is in the hospital fighting for his life. As a direct result the governor's felt this was the only way to control the possibility of potentially spreading this disease. I agree the CDC says you are not infectious until you present with symptoms; however, the CDC has been caught with their pants down too many times trying to deal with this and quite honestly people don't have much faith in anything they say at this point.

Dr. Spencer followed the guidelines for returning medical personnel, that is why he was taking his temperature twice a day. If we look at what has happened over the past few weeks....

Duncan arrives, get sick, is turned away from the hospital, gets sicker returns to the hospital and later dies. 2 hospital workers who had direct contact with his body fluids are infected with the virus. Some 100 people in Ohio are quarantined due to Amber Vinson. Duncan's family are quarantined and a laboratory tech is quarantined on a cruise ship. None of the quarantined parties are infected with the virus.

These virus is difficult to catch a point which seems to be lost on many of the posters here and the general public. Hopefully no one in NYC will get sick as Dr. Spencer was asymptotic when he was out in public. Perhaps if no one gets sick we will all begin to calm down.

[cologal]

This new policy allows you to have visitors during your quarantine period. Sounds more like house arrest than a quarantine. I don't have any answers just thinking out loud each time they make a move. This certainly is too serious an issue to be making it up as we go along.

Problem is the nurse who is quarantine is in New Jersey not New York....

[graciegirl]

Would anyone opposed to this woman being in quarantine, allow her to babysit in the next few days for their grandchild?

[TexaninVA]

Though this is a different subject, rest assured that there are those who would disagree with you (and me) that the internment camps were morally repugnant and simply outrageous.

And for those who are not familiar with the history, during World War II we were fighting three primary enemies: Germany, Italy, and Japan. Americans of Japanese descent were rounded up, taken from their homes, businesses, jobs, lives, and put into internment camps for the duration of the war. Rest assured that Americans of German and Italian descent were NOT treated this way!

Racism was alive and well during those times, and in my opinion it is still true today. In recent years I have heard more overt racist remarks here in TV than I had in several decades preceding. But as I said, this is a whole other subject....

I'm always amused when someone engages in historical revisionism and applies contemporary standards to an earlier era. I don't think it really accomplishes much except to allow some to preen with supposed moral superiority or greater levels of enlightenment etc ... I'm guessing you also opposed the use of the atomic bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki ... but that's another thread.

Anyway, the person who signed the executive order for internment was FDR. In the context of the times, uncertainty and fear, it was considered a prudent precaution. Unfortunate and regrettable I agree, but that's looking back with the luxury of hindsight, thus I don't criticize him for doing it. Any President at the time probably would have made the same decision.

[cologal]

A 5 year old who returned from Africa now has a fever but is NOT in isolation but the returning healthcare worker is.. Are ya kidding me!


Report: 5 Year Old Hospitalized In NYC With Possible Ebola Symptoms (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/27/ebola-new-york_n_6053150.html)

[cologal]

I'm always amused when someone engages in historical revisionism and applies contemporary standards to an earlier era. I don't think it really accomplishes much except to allow some to preen with supposed moral superiority or greater levels of enlightenment etc ... I'm guessing you also opposed the use of the atomic bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki ... but that's another thread.

Anyway, the person who signed the executive order for internment was FDR. In the context of the times, uncertainty and fear, it was considered a prudent precaution. Unfortunate and regrettable I agree, but that's looking back with the luxury of hindsight, thus I don't criticize him for doing it. Any President at the time probably would have made the same decision.

Doesn't matter who signed it.....The policy was wrong.

If your question of the use of the atomic bomb is directed to me....nope I agree we needed to use it, my father-in-law worked at the Hanford Project.

[graciegirl]

Would anyone opposed to this woman being in quarantine, allow her to babysit in the next few days for their grandchild?
Bumping my own post.

I just heard this quarantined nurse interviewed on CNN. She was nearly in tears over her plight.

I don't think she promotes her cause. I wonder WHY she went to help Ebola patients. She seems angry to be inconvenienced, not like the calm, common sense, dedicated, people I know who are nurses.

When asked if she thought that there was NO risk, she said "Of course there is a risk, but it is very low."

I am for the teams treating Ebola patients here in the U.S. to be separated from the populace.

I hope this is soon a non issue and I appear foolish. This is a disease with no cure, no prevention and a huge mortality rate.

[billethkid]

what I need from some who are against the qurantine is an understanding of what they think should be done under the following circumstances:

A person is either from the hot zone or has been exposed to infected patients.
The person shows no signs of ebola and is allowed to fly out.
The person arrives in TV and still does not show any symtoms.
It is published that people so exposed may possibly show symptoms within 21 days of exposure, which means those who showed no symptoms yesterday still have the potential to become infected today.
Should these people be allowed to visit the squares?
Attend a function at Savannah Center?
Have dinner across the table with you at Arnold Palmers?
Ride on the bus sitting next to you?
Attend a wine tasting at GarVinos in line ahead of you?

Remembering these folks can still become symptomatic and infected at anytime along the way during the above.

Is that OK?

[Sophie11]

5 year old boy in NYC.

AOL.com Article - Boy observed in NYC hospital for Ebola; states firm on quarantines (http://www.aol.com/article/2014/10/27/boy-observed-in-nyc-hospital-for-ebola-states-firm-on-quarantin/20984356/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D552611)

[graciegirl]

Huge bi-partisan support for Ebola quarantine.

High support for Ebola quarantine (http://today.yougov.com/news/2014/10/15/high-support-ebola-quarantine/)


AND, in case you wondered as I did what yougov.com is. Here is that answer. It is based in UK.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouGov

[cologal]

Nurse in New Jersey to be released today to her home in Maine!!!!

[cologal]

what I need from some who are against the qurantine is an understanding of what they think should be done under the following circumstances:

A person is either from the hot zone or has been exposed to infected patients.
The person shows no signs of ebola and is allowed to fly out.
The person arrives in TV and still does not show any symtoms.
It is published that people so exposed may possibly show symptoms within 21 days of exposure, which means those who showed no symptoms yesterday still have the potential to become infected today.
Should these people be allowed to visit the squares?
Attend a function at Savannah Center?
Have dinner across the table with you at Arnold Palmers?
Ride on the bus sitting next to you?
Attend a wine tasting at GarVinos in line ahead of you?

Remembering these folks can still become symptomatic and infected at anytime along the way during the above.

Is that OK?

From the hot zone is different than being exposed to Ebola patients.

If the person has a fever how ever low they should be watched and tested for Ebola.

[JB in TV]

A phrase used often during the recent Ebola outbreak is "an abundance of caution"... I believe that this is the case with these states originally requiring the quarantine after the doc showed signs of Ebola in NYC. Better to act quickly and try to stop anyone who possible could spread the disease to the large population of people in the NYC area then to risk a large amount of people getting sick. Now it seems that she will be allowed out of quartantine. Good news, I suppose. I sincerely hope that she doesn't become infected with this terrible disease.

With that said, I believe that the conditions this nurse we have been discussing had to endure were less than satisfactory, at least as reported. None of us were there to actually see her situation. And, as some others have said, she doesn't really seem to be the type of person ususally associated with the caring medical folks who volunteer their valuable time and skills to help others who are suffering. I'm sure she was glad to be back from W Africa, and was looking forward to being "home" as any of us would have been, but the thought that she might have been a threat to millions should have been obvious to her. Threatening to sue the state who quaranteed her to try to protect millions of others? REALLY???

[billethkid]

From the hot zone is different than being exposed to Ebola patients.

If the person has a fever how ever low they should be watched and tested for Ebola.

So if my hypothetical visitor to TV was ONLY exposed to ebola patients it would be OK for them to participate among us here in TV as I lined out in my post?

[cologal]

So if my hypothetical visitor to TV was ONLY exposed to ebola patients it would be OK for them to participate among us here in TV as I lined out in my post?

Here you go...the guidelines


Interim Guidance for Monitoring and Movement of Persons with Ebola Virus Disease Exposure | Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever | CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/hcp/monitoring-and-movement-of-persons-with-exposure.html)

[graciegirl]

Here you go...the guidelines


Interim Guidance for Monitoring and Movement of Persons with Ebola Virus Disease Exposure | Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever | CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/hcp/monitoring-and-movement-of-persons-with-exposure.html)


I ask again, would those who oppose quarantine of this nurse, feel comfortable with her baby sitting their grandchild?

http://info.isabelhealthcare.com/Portals/133692/images/Purpuric-resized-600.png

[cologal]

I ask again, would those who oppose quarantine of this nurse, feel comfortable with her baby sitting their grandchild?

http://info.isabelhealthcare.com/Portals/133692/images/Purpuric-resized-600.png

The treatment of this nurse was harsh.... now even Christie is backing off his original position. So I ask you if you were a medical professional and knew you would be treated this way when you returned would you volunteer to help?

I can't answer your question because I don't have a grandchild.

[cologal]

Several governors decided to impose a mandatory quarantine before they thought about the implementation of such a ban. In earlier posts I commented on the fact that the Public Health Service Hospitals and their quarantine stations were shutdown by the Reagan administration. So when this nurse landed there was no where to take her and she ended up in a tent outside the hospital in a different building.

Now she is being released to travel home to stay under quarantine in her home.

[gomoho]

Dr. Spencer followed the guidelines for returning medical personnel, that is why he was taking his temperature twice a day. If we look at what has happened over the past few weeks....

Duncan arrives, get sick, is turned away from the hospital, gets sicker returns to the hospital and later dies. 2 hospital workers who had direct contact with his body fluids are infected with the virus. Some 100 people in Ohio are quarantined due to Amber Vinson. Duncan's family are quarantined and a laboratory tech is quarantined on a cruise ship. None of the quarantined parties are infected with the virus.

These virus is difficult to catch a point which seems to be lost on many of the posters here and the general public. Hopefully no one in NYC will get sick as Dr. Spencer was asymptotic when he was out in public. Perhaps if no one gets sick we will all begin to calm down.


You completely missed my point that people no longer believe what they are being told because there have been so many mistakes made and situations where they make it up as we go along. Absolutely no confidence in what the CDC, the administration, the WHO, the NHI or any of the other muckety-mucks say at this point.

[gomoho]

A 5 year old who returned from Africa now has a fever but is NOT in isolation but the returning healthcare worker is.. Are ya kidding me!


Report: 5 Year Old Hospitalized In NYC With Possible Ebola Symptoms (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/27/ebola-new-york_n_6053150.html)

The article you linked us to actually says he is hospitalized and in isolation.

[billethkid]

OK so the nurse was released. We don't know what the conditions of her release are yet. Confined to home. Very lawyerly avoides saying quarantined at home. But enough about the nurse's media moments of fame.

I have a real problem understanding what is attempting to be communicated. If the exposure is not a big deal, then why are hundreds of thousands of dollars and man hours being spent to find those who have come in contact with those who develop symptoms.

I do not mean to put anybody in a corner but what I still have not heard is it OK for an ebola exposed visitor to TV to walk, sit and be among us??

[twinklesweep]

I'm always amused when someone engages in historical revisionism and applies contemporary standards to an earlier era. I don't think it really accomplishes much except to allow some to preen with supposed moral superiority or greater levels of enlightenment etc ... I'm guessing you also opposed the use of the atomic bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki ... but that's another thread.

Anyway, the person who signed the executive order for internment was FDR. In the context of the times, uncertainty and fear, it was considered a prudent precaution. Unfortunate and regrettable I agree, but that's looking back with the luxury of hindsight, thus I don't criticize him for doing it. Any President at the time probably would have made the same decision.

You are wrong. I recognized "the use of the atomic bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki" as a necessary military decision and supported it, horrible as its effects were on the civilian population. It was the only way to bring about an end to the Pacific War which otherwise would have continued interminably.

And you completely missed the point I was making. I agree with you about "the luxury of hindsight"; however, I was focusing on the difference in treatment of U.S. citizens who were descendants of one enemy in contrast to the treatment of U.S. citizens who were descendants of the other two enemies. This has NOTHING to do with "the luxury of hindsight" and EVERYTHING to do with racism!

[billethkid]

You are wrong. I recognized "the use of the atomic bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki" as a necessary military decision and supported it, horrible as its effects were on the civilian population.

And you completely missed the point I was making. I agree with you about "the luxury of hindsight"; however, I was focusing on the difference in treatment of U.S. citizens who were descendants of one enemy in contrast to the treatment of U.S. citizens who were descendants of the other two enemies. This has NOTHING to do with "the luxury of hindsight" and EVERYTHING to do with racism!

which all of the above has nothing to do with the thread's inquiry!!

[janmcn]

what I need from some who are against the qurantine is an understanding of what they think should be done under the following circumstances:

A person is either from the hot zone or has been exposed to infected patients.
The person shows no signs of ebola and is allowed to fly out.
The person arrives in TV and still does not show any symtoms.
It is published that people so exposed may possibly show symptoms within 21 days of exposure, which means those who showed no symptoms yesterday still have the potential to become infected today.
Should these people be allowed to visit the squares?
Attend a function at Savannah Center?
Have dinner across the table with you at Arnold Palmers?
Ride on the bus sitting next to you?
Attend a wine tasting at GarVinos in line ahead of you?

Remembering these folks can still become symptomatic and infected at anytime along the way during the above.

Is that OK?


The only way to avoid infected people at the squares, The Savannah Center, Arnold Palmer's, on the bus, or GarVinos is to stay away from those places; along with airplanes, cruise ships, doctor's offices, hospitals, nursing homes, any places that crowds gather.

A person can only be responsible for their own well-being and not for those around them.

[billethkid]

The only way to avoid infected people at the squares, The Savannah Center, Arnold Palmer's, on the bus, or GarVinos is to stay away from those places; along with airplanes, cruise ships, doctor's offices, hospitals, nursing homes, any places that crowds gather.

A person can only be responsible for their own well-being and not for those around them.

So we are to completely change our way of life to accomodate the few violators? Plus permitting the infected to take over the entire environment of our lives.

Obviously those exposed and infected do not subscribe to being responsible for theirs or anybody elses well being.

It is very simple....do not let them in in the first place....like it or not!

[cologal]

You completely missed my point that people no longer believe what they are being told because there have been so many mistakes made and situations where they make it up as we go along. Absolutely no confidence in what the CDC, the administration, the WHO, the NHI or any of the other muckety-mucks say at this point.

The proof they say is in the pudding....

How many people in the general public here the US have contracted Ebola?

[cologal]

so we are to completely change our way of life to accomodate the few violators? Plus permitting the infected to take over the entire environment of our lives.

Obviously those exposed and infected do not subscribe to being responsible for theirs or anybody elses well being.

It is very simple....do not let them in in the first place....like it or not!

lol!!!! Why must you criminalize everything?

The doctor followed the CDC procedure for medical professional, the nurse was and is not symptomatic.

How many people in the US have contracted Ebola from the people, in your own words, those exposed and infected do not subscribe to being responsible?

[cologal]

OK so the nurse was released. We don't know what the conditions of her release are yet. Confined to home. Very lawyerly avoides saying quarantined at home. But enough about the nurse's media moments of fame.

I have a real problem understanding what is attempting to be communicated. If the exposure is not a big deal, then why are hundreds of thousands of dollars and man hours being spent to find those who have come in contact with those who develop symptoms.

I do not mean to put anybody in a corner but what I still have not heard is it OK for an ebola exposed visitor to TV to walk, sit and be among us??

The nurse is being released to travel home and remain there while she is monitored twice daily.

[gomoho]

lol!!!! Why must you criminalize everything?

The doctor followed the CDC procedure for medical professional, the nurse was and is not symptomatic.

How many people in the US have contracted Ebola from the people, in your own words, those exposed and infected do not subscribe to being responsible?

I am curious if and when the first person in "the general public" presents with symptoms if you will change your tune??? I prefer to be proactive rather then reactive.

[cologal]

I am curious if and when the first person in "the general public" presents with symptoms if you will change your tune??? I prefer to be proactive rather then reactive.

I hear over and over again you all don't trust the CDC but the protocols they have put in place have worked so far. As no one in Duncan's family or anyone associated with the 2 nurses have been infected. They were monitoring around 100 people in Ohio.

The doctor in NYC was monitoring his temp twice a day and when it rose he was taken into isolation. So will anyone in NYC get the virus from the doctor being on a subway? Let's talk then.

[billethkid]

the obvious lack of response to my hypothetical ebola exposed visitor to TV continues to be ignored.

Must be a reason for that.

Also criminalizing is in the eye of the beholder as I intended to criminalize nothing!

[cologal]

the obvious lack of response to my hypothetical ebola exposed visitor to TV continues to be ignored.

Must be a reason for that.

Also criminalizing is in the eye of the beholder as I intended to criminalize nothing!

The CDC guidelines that have been in place from the being call for anyone exposed to an Ebola patient to be monitored for 21 days. That is what happened in Texas to the Duncan family, hospital personnel and to the people who had contact with the nurse that traveled to Ohio. I believe that everyone has been cleared.

None of these people were subjected to being placed in an unheated tent without indoor plumbing as was the nurse in New Jersey.

That should answer your question.....

[cologal]

The article you linked us to actually says he is hospitalized and in isolation.
When he first got to the hospital he was put in the general population at least according to that report.

[blueash]

You completely missed my point that people no longer believe what they are being told because there have been so many mistakes made and situations where they make it up as we go along. Absolutely no confidence in what the CDC, the administration, the WHO, the NHI or any of the other muckety-mucks say at this point.

You have no confidence in the CDC, the administration, the WHO, the NHI. But you seem to have very strong opinions about how this situation should be managed. So please, what are the sources you trust? Why do you trust them and not the ones you distrust? I don't believe that the CDC, the WHO, etc. would like to see an epidemic and that they give the best evidence based advice possible. They are not going to be infallible but they are going to be extremely careful. These dedicated professionals went into public health because they care about prevention and health. They are not in the business of selling fear nor misinformation. There have now been hundreds if not thousands of Americans casually exposed to Ebola virus. So far not a single one has gotten sick. At what point will this panic diminish? So your comment that people don't believe what those agencies produce is wrong. Some people do accept that their recommendations are well researched and evidence based. Including Blueash. Perhaps I am just a "muckety muck" too

How much fear do you have for people returning from the meningitis belt of sub-Saharan Africa? For returnees from SE Asia with exposure to untreatable TB (much easier to casually spread)? For people returning from Australia where they might be carrying Hendra virus?

[TNLAKEPANDA]

This is all I have to say!

[cologal]

This is all I have to say!

LOL!!! This is the best....

[gomoho]

You have no confidence in the CDC, the administration, the WHO, the NHI. But you seem to have very strong opinions about how this situation should be managed. So please, what are the sources you trust? Why do you trust them and not the ones you distrust? I don't believe that the CDC, the WHO, etc. would like to see an epidemic and that they give the best evidence based advice possible. They are not going to be infallible but they are going to be extremely careful. These dedicated professionals went into public health because they care about prevention and health. They are not in the business of selling fear nor misinformation. There have now been hundreds if not thousands of Americans casually exposed to Ebola virus. So far not a single one has gotten sick. At what point will this panic diminish? So your comment that people don't believe what those agencies produce is wrong. Some people do accept that their recommendations are well researched and evidence based. Including Blueash. Perhaps I am just a "muckety muck" too

How much fear do you have for people returning from the meningitis belt of sub-Saharan Africa? For returnees from SE Asia with exposure to untreatable TB (much easier to casually spread)? For people returning from Australia where they might be carrying Hendra virus?

If you actually read ALL my posts I have mentioned several times I don't have the answers but am thinking out loud. I honestly don't trust anyone involved in politics to tell the truth about anything. And yes I believe the CDC etc. are involved in politics and being directed by the administration to say whatever it takes to prevent a panic. No, I don't want a panic, but I don't trust what they are saying.

[gomoho]

I hear over and over again you all don't trust the CDC but the protocols they have put in place have worked so far. As no one in Duncan's family or anyone associated with the 2 nurses have been infected. They were monitoring around 100 people in Ohio.

The doctor in NYC was monitoring his temp twice a day and when it rose he was taken into isolation. So will anyone in NYC get the virus from the doctor being on a subway? Let's talk then.


"the protocols they have put in place have worked so far" Really - tell that to the two nurses that recently recovered from the Ebola they contracted following CDC guidelines.

[TexaninVA]

From my limited knowledge, Ebola does seem hard to contract. It doesn't persist very long in the open environment and is easy to kill. However, history would suggest that we are "being managed" and not told the complete story, as you suggested. Unless you are an "insider", it is hard to tell what is really going on. Whenever someone tried to convince me that "all is well", I tend to believe the opposite.

You have no confidence in the CDC, the administration, the WHO, the NHI. But you seem to have very strong opinions about how this situation should be managed. So please, what are the sources you trust? Why do you trust them and not the ones you distrust? I don't believe that the CDC, the WHO, etc. would like to see an epidemic and that they give the best evidence based advice possible. They are not going to be infallible but they are going to be extremely careful. These dedicated professionals went into public health because they care about prevention and health. They are not in the business of selling fear nor misinformation. There have now been hundreds if not thousands of Americans casually exposed to Ebola virus. So far not a single one has gotten sick. At what point will this panic diminish? So your comment that people don't believe what those agencies produce is wrong. Some people do accept that their recommendations are well researched and evidence based. Including Blueash. Perhaps I am just a "muckety muck" too

How much fear do you have for people returning from the meningitis belt of sub-Saharan Africa? For returnees from SE Asia with exposure to untreatable TB (much easier to casually spread)? For people returning from Australia where they might be carrying Hendra virus?

Actually you've veered into the key issue perhaps without realizing it --- lack of trust.

[TexaninVA]

:Screen_of_Death:uDoesn't matter who signed it.....The policy was wrong.

If your question of the use of the atomic bomb is directed to me....nope I agree we needed to use it, my father-in-law worked at the Hanford Project.

If you want to argue FDR was wrong that's your right

Roger that re your Father-in-law at Hanford ... my Dad was USMC and would have been in Operation Olympic except for Trumans decision

[cologal]

"the protocols they have put in place have worked so far" Really - tell that to the two nurses that recently recovered from the Ebola they contracted following CDC guidelines.

The hospital did not train there personnel and they did not have all the equipment needed to handle this type of patient.

[cologal]

:Screen_of_Death:u

If you want to argue FDR was wrong that's your right

Roger that re your Father-in-law at Hanford ... my Dad was USMC and would have been in Operation Olympic except for Trumans decision

There was much more than the camps...property was stolen. While I understand the fear it was a terrible thing.

For my parents FDR was a GOD...

Good thing for your father that wasn't going to be fun. I was asked to make a sales call in Hiroshima a few years back....I really didn't want to go, it to was called off due to an earthquake.

[gomoho]

The hospital did not train there personnel and they did not have all the equipment needed to handle this type of patient.

Thank you for making a valid point - you can't depend on hospitals, doctors, or nurses to get things right so it is a problem. Actually at the point Duncan was admitted Dr. Fried was saying their garb was appropriate - turns out it wasn't and they have upped the anty - my point exactly - they are making it up as we go along and don't really know; therefore, I doubt what they tell me.

[gomoho]

There was much more than the camps...property was stolen. While I understand the fear it was a terrible thing.

For my parents FDR was a GOD...

Good thing for your father that wasn't going to be fun. I was asked to make a sales call in Hiroshima a few years back....I really didn't want to go, it to was called off due to an earthquake.


I think this is about Ebola - if you guys want to argue another point please do it in PMs.

Thanks

[cologal]

I think this is about Ebola - if you guys want to argue another point please do it in PMs.

Thanks

Geez I didn't think we were arguing but ok...

[gomoho]

Thank God the little boy has so far tested negative - they will continue to monitor for a few days.

[TexaninVA]

There was much more than the camps...property was stolen. While I understand the fear it was a terrible thing.

For my parents FDR was a GOD...

Good thing for your father that wasn't going to be fun. I was asked to make a sales call in Hiroshima a few years back....I really didn't want to go, it to was called off due to an earthquake.

Actually, when I was a young naval officer, I visited Nagasaki on shore leave and got a lot of nasty looks. This was circa 1972. If my city had been A-bombed, I probably wouldn't' be too friendly either ... but OTOH, without that, a lot of us would not have been here at all because our Father's would have died on the beaches ... in huge numbers.

[TexaninVA]

You are wrong. I recognized "the use of the atomic bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki" as a necessary military decision and supported it, horrible as its effects were on the civilian population. It was the only way to bring about an end to the Pacific War which otherwise would have continued interminably.

And you completely missed the point I was making. I agree with you about "the luxury of hindsight"; however, I was focusing on the difference in treatment of U.S. citizens who were descendants of one enemy in contrast to the treatment of U.S. citizens who were descendants of the other two enemies. This has NOTHING to do with "the luxury of hindsight" and EVERYTHING to do with racism!

No, I got your point but you know what ... the racism argument gets really tiresome after a while. Get over your guilt and move on. Stuff happens and sometimes imperfect decisions are made. Besides, the Nisei got over it a long time ago and kicked German butt, and ended up as the most highly decorated outfit in the US military during WWII.

[TexaninVA]

Ok back to Ebola …

Here’s what we ALL agree on:
- No one ever, ever wants to get Ebola
- The best thing to do is eliminate Ebola at the source in West Africa
- A smart strategy is to prevent Ebola from coming into the US vs reacting to it when it gets here

The argument is how we best accomplish this.
However, what’s confusing is …

-The DoD has just said troops returning will be quarantined for 21 days.

-Yet, some in the CDC and elsewhere say doctors returning from actually treating Ebola patients will not be quarantined. Or maybe they will. Or maybe not?

- Or, maybe the policy … which supposedly was put into place and all ready to go per public announcements a few weeks ago … is still garbled and changing so quickly that’s it’s difficult to keep up.

Other than that, it’s perfectly clear.

[twinklesweep]

Though this is a different subject, rest assured that there are those who would disagree with you (and me) that the internment camps were morally repugnant and simply outrageous.

And for those who are not familiar with the history, during World War II we were fighting three primary enemies: Germany, Italy, and Japan. Americans of Japanese descent were rounded up, taken from their homes, businesses, jobs, lives, and put into internment camps for the duration of the war. Rest assured that Americans of German and Italian descent were NOT treated this way!

Racism was alive and well during those times, and in my opinion it is still true today. In recent years I have heard more overt racist remarks here in TV than I had in several decades preceding. But as I said, this is a whole other subject....

I'm always amused when someone engages in historical revisionism and applies contemporary standards to an earlier era. I don't think it really accomplishes much except to allow some to preen with supposed moral superiority or greater levels of enlightenment etc ... I'm guessing you also opposed the use of the atomic bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki ... but that's another thread.

Anyway, the person who signed the executive order for internment was FDR. In the context of the times, uncertainty and fear, it was considered a prudent precaution. Unfortunate and regrettable I agree, but that's looking back with the luxury of hindsight, thus I don't criticize him for doing it. Any President at the time probably would have made the same decision.

You are wrong. I recognized "the use of the atomic bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki" as a necessary military decision and supported it, horrible as its effects were on the civilian population. It was the only way to bring about an end to the Pacific War which otherwise would have continued interminably.

And you completely missed the point I was making. I agree with you about "the luxury of hindsight"; however, I was focusing on the difference in treatment of U.S. citizens who were descendants of one enemy in contrast to the treatment of U.S. citizens who were descendants of the other two enemies. This has NOTHING to do with "the luxury of hindsight" and EVERYTHING to do with racism!

:Screen_of_Death:u

If you want to argue FDR was wrong that's your right

Roger that re your Father-in-law at Hanford ... my Dad was USMC and would have been in Operation Olympic except for Trumans decision

Actually, when I was a young naval officer, I visited Nagasaki on shore leave and got a lot of nasty looks. This was circa 1972. If my city had been A-bombed, I probably wouldn't' be too friendly either ... but OTOH, without that, a lot of us would not have been here at all because our Father's would have died on the beaches ... in huge numbers.

No, I got your point but you know what ... the racism argument gets really tiresome after a while. Get over your guilt and move on. Stuff happens and sometimes imperfect decisions are made. Besides, the Nisei got over it a long time ago and kicked German butt, and ended up as the most highly decorated outfit in the US military during WWII.

I started out by saying "Though this is a different subject...." If anyone is terribly offended and/or distracted by an unrelated aside during this intense discussion of ebola by another poster (above) and myself, I apologize for my part in it....

[sunnyatlast]

Several governors decided to impose a mandatory quarantine before they thought about the implementation of such a ban. In earlier posts I commented on the fact that the Public Health Service Hospitals and their quarantine stations were shutdown by the Reagan administration. So when this nurse landed there was no where to take her and she ended up in a tent outside the hospital in a different building.

Now she is being released to travel home to stay under quarantine in her home.

Oh, really?? "There was no place to take her" because of what Reagan did 34 years ago??….. :ohdear: :ohdear: :ohdear:

(….never mind Bellevue Hospital 15 miles away or 5 minutes by helicopter, where they were already treating the physician with ebola and it was already a designated "Ebola Ready" hospital:

"Oct. 23, 2014 -- Bellevue Hospital is one of eight hospitals in New York State that Gov. Andrew Cuomo has designated as “Ebola ready.” The facility will care for confirmed cases from any of the 11 public hospitals in the New York City Health and Hospitals Corporation (HHC) and any suspected cases among patients who fly into John F. Kennedy or LaGuardia airports……"

What makes Bellevue Hospital “Ebola ready”?
In Bellevue there are four rooms ready to receive potential Ebola patients. These rooms were originally regular isolation rooms but have been fitted to better serve these patients. We can convert additional isolation rooms into Ebola-ready rooms as well if necessary.

In the rooms we’ve added extra electrical capacity in case the patient needs intensive care. Bellevue is also currently building a separate laboratory to handle blood work for patients. Putting blood samples in with regular lab equipment will contaminate the existing laboratory.

The hospital is particularly well suited due to its long history of being on the front lines of epidemics and emerging public health threats. That includes managing an isolation unit for diseases such as tuberculosis for many years with support from and collaboration with the city health department……
------------
"As part of the New York governor’s Ebola preparedness plan, two ambulances are regularly stationed at JFK and Newark airports, the city’s transit authority was provided with protective gear and training, and unannounced drills are being conducted at airports, college campuses and in subways. The governor designated eight hospitals in the state to handle Ebola patients, including Bellevue.

What Makes a Hospital (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-makes-a-hospital-ebola-ready1/)

Doctor at New York hospital tests positive for Ebola virus | World news | theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/24/doctor-tests-positive-for-ebola-at-new-york-hospital)

[cologal]

Oh, really?? "There was no place to take her" because of what Reagan did 34 years ago??….. :ohdear: :ohdear: :ohdear:

(….never mind Bellevue Hospital 15 miles away or 5 minutes by helicopter, where they were already treating the physician with ebola and it was already a designated "Ebola Ready" hospital:

"Oct. 23, 2014 -- Bellevue Hospital is one of eight hospitals in New York State that Gov. Andrew Cuomo has designated as “Ebola ready.” The facility will care for confirmed cases from any of the 11 public hospitals in the New York City Health and Hospitals Corporation (HHC) and any suspected cases among patients who fly into John F. Kennedy or LaGuardia airports……"

What makes Bellevue Hospital “Ebola ready”?
In Bellevue there are four rooms ready to receive potential Ebola patients. These rooms were originally regular isolation rooms but have been fitted to better serve these patients. We can convert additional isolation rooms into Ebola-ready rooms as well if necessary.

In the rooms we’ve added extra electrical capacity in case the patient needs intensive care. Bellevue is also currently building a separate laboratory to handle blood work for patients. Putting blood samples in with regular lab equipment will contaminate the existing laboratory.

The hospital is particularly well suited due to its long history of being on the front lines of epidemics and emerging public health threats. That includes managing an isolation unit for diseases such as tuberculosis for many years with support from and collaboration with the city health department……
------------
"As part of the New York governor’s Ebola preparedness plan, two ambulances are regularly stationed at JFK and Newark airports, the city’s transit authority was provided with protective gear and training, and unannounced drills are being conducted at airports, college campuses and in subways. The governor designated eight hospitals in the state to handle Ebola patients, including Bellevue.

What Makes a Hospital (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-makes-a-hospital-ebola-ready1/)

Doctor at New York hospital tests positive for Ebola virus | World news | theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/24/doctor-tests-positive-for-ebola-at-new-york-hospital)

If all that you posted were true then how did this nurse who landed a Newark Airport end up in an unheated tent with a porta potty? Perhaps they really weren't ready when they imposed this ill fated quarantine.

As for my post I worked at the US Public Health Service Hospital on Staten Island, in fact it was my internship. They did have a quarantine station there which was used right after I finished...I believe there was an issue with some passengers from India. President Reagan did close all these hospitals and the quarantine stations. That is just a statement of fact.

[Schaumburger]

From NBC news website:
Tuesday, Oct 28, 2014 • Updated at 1:02 PM CDT Dallas nurse Amber Vinson, the second health care worker to contract Ebola after treating Thomas Eric Duncan at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas, has recovered from the potentially deadly virus and was discharged from Emory University Hospital in Atlanta Tuesday.

"I’m so grateful to be well and first and foremost, I want to thank God," Vinson said. "I sincerely believe that with God all things are possible."

Vinson, 29, entered the room to a round of applause and was introduced by Dr. Bruce Ribner, assistant professor of medicine and a specialist in infectious disease and internal medicine at Emory University Hospital in Atlanta.

In a short statement, Vinson thanked her family, doctors and caretakers, including Fort Worth Dr. Kent Brantley and missionary Nancy Writebol, both who donated plasma, while asking that "we not lose focus on the thousands of families who continue to labor under the burden of this disease in West Africa."

Vinson took no questions and asked for privacy for she and her family after they return to Texas.

"My family and I would like to thank many people whose prayers have helped sustain us. As we head back home to Texas, we are grateful and we respectfully ask for the privacy my family and I need at this time."

[blueash]

Read through the posts in this thread. See the distrust, the government is lying to us, the CDC is clueless, it is going to spread so easily.

Well, as of today there are no Ebola cases in the US. The systems in place and the responses of government were completely successful. There were zero cases of spread by incidental contact. There was no need to lock people up as those who were not quarantined just subjected to twice daily temperature checks did not spread disease. The panic inducing talking heads on CNN and FOX were wrong in their dire predictions. The medical community and the WHO experts were right.

[Rags123]

Read through the posts in this thread. See the distrust, the government is lying to us, the CDC is clueless, it is going to spread so easily.

Well, as of today there are no Ebola cases in the US. The systems in place and the responses of government were completely successful. There were zero cases of spread by incidental contact. There was no need to lock people up as those who were not quarantined just subjected to twice daily temperature checks did not spread disease. The panic inducing talking heads on CNN and FOX were wrong in their dire predictions. The medical community and the WHO experts were right.

I wouldn't be so hard on TOTV posters at all. The media, who by the way was asked by the White House to tone it down, whipped everyone into a frenzy.

That along with the fact this was scary...Ebola reaching our shores....there was a natural reaction which is understandable.

I hope your confidence is rewarded but find no fault in the concern expressed.

Just asking this question which is non related to this specific thread but relates to another active thread on net neutrality....

Wonder how much we would even know about what was going on....I mean via the internet on this with net neutrality....that request from the Government, I THINK, could have just been a directive ! Just testing this...still trying to get my head around net neutrality and this seems like a subject (EBOLA) that might fit into the discussion.

[graciegirl]

Read through the posts in this thread. See the distrust, the government is lying to us, the CDC is clueless, it is going to spread so easily.

Well, as of today there are no Ebola cases in the US. The systems in place and the responses of government were completely successful. There were zero cases of spread by incidental contact. There was no need to lock people up as those who were not quarantined just subjected to twice daily temperature checks did not spread disease. The panic inducing talking heads on CNN and FOX were wrong in their dire predictions. The medical community and the WHO experts were right.


Whoa. IN spite of the government we are o.k. We are o.k. solely because Emory University figured out how to treat people with Ebola. I wouldn't trust any person in Washington any further than I could throw a Petri dish on THIS subject, Ebola. We need a surgeon general and what happened to the lawyer who was placed in charge? You oversimplify Paul. It was a dog and pony show that blessedly turned out o.k.

[graciegirl]

I wouldn't be so hard on TOTV posters at all. The media, who by the way was asked by the White House to tone it down, whipped everyone into a frenzy.

That along with the fact this was scary...Ebola reaching our shores....there was a natural reaction which is understandable.

I hope your confidence is rewarded but find no fault in the concern expressed.

Just asking this question which is non related to this specific thread but relates to another active thread on net neutrality....

Wonder how much we would even know about what was going on....I mean via the internet on this with net neutrality....that request from the Government, I THINK, could have just been a directive ! Just testing this...still trying to get my head around net neutrality and this seems like a subject (EBOLA) that might fit into the discussion.


Rags. I agree.

[billethkid]

Read through the posts in this thread. See the distrust, the government is lying to us, the CDC is clueless, it is going to spread so easily.

Well, as of today there are no Ebola cases in the US. The systems in place and the responses of government were completely successful. There were zero cases of spread by incidental contact. There was no need to lock people up as those who were not quarantined just subjected to twice daily temperature checks did not spread disease. The panic inducing talking heads on CNN and FOX were wrong in their dire predictions. The medical community and the WHO experts were right.



There would be as many claims that the reason there has been to breakout is for the fact that quarantines, where they were used is the reason!!!!!

I love it when some shoot an arrow into the wall then paint a bullseye around it and claim success!!!!!