EBOLA - So, do we really have nothing to worry about?

[murray607]

The news now says a nurse in Dallas who looked after Thomas Duncan has contracted Ebola.

This nurse had worn the proper full protection. But they say that despite the proper equipment being worn there may have been "a breach of protocol" in how the equipment was removed allowing tranfer from the protective clothing to the nurse's mouth.

What this says to me is that if a healthcare worker properly protected can contract Ebola, what chance does an unprotected member of the public have of being protected?

Of the 3,000 deaths so far from Ebola, over 300 were healthcare workers and it can only assumed that the majority of those contracted the illness despite taking adequate precautions.

I hope they are right in saying there is nothing for the public to worry about, but I for one am worried that this will grow exponentially to become a much worse threat than at present.

I can't help but think back to the SARS epidemic, when it was initially announced that health authorities were on top of things and that there was little to worry about and then it progressed and we had increasing numbers of deaths including healthcare workers.

[MikeV]

You believe everything the government tells us?

[tuccillo]

From my limited knowledge, Ebola does seem hard to contract. It doesn't persist very long in the open environment and is easy to kill. However, history would suggest that we are "being managed" and not told the complete story, as you suggested. Unless you are an "insider", it is hard to tell what is really going on. Whenever someone tried to convince me that "all is well", I tend to believe the opposite.

The news now says a nurse in Dallas who looked after Thomas Duncan has contracted Ebola.

This nurse had worn the proper full protection. But they say that despite the proper equipment being worn there may have been "a breach of protocol" in how the equipment was removed allowing tranfer from the protective clothing to the nurse's mouth.

What this says to me is that if a healthcare worker properly protected can contract Ebola, what chance does an unprotected member of the public have of being protected?

Of the 3,000 deaths so far from Ebola, over 300 were healthcare workers and it can only assumed that the majority of those contracted the illness despite taking adequate precautions.

I hope they are right in saying there is nothing for the public to worry about, but I for one am worried that this will grow exponentially to become a much worse threat than at present.

I can't help but think back to the SARS epidemic, when it was initially announced that health authorities were on top of things and that there was little to worry about and then it progressed and we had increasing numbers of deaths including healthcare workers.

[Sandtrap328]

A seemingly minor mistake in removing the protective wear was a terrible mistake. Personally, I doubt if the healthcare workers in Africa have the highest level of protective gear to wear. They make do with what is available.

Ebola is not an airborne virus. It is bodily fluids that spread it.

[gomoho]

A seemingly minor mistake in removing the protective wear was a terrible mistake. Personally, I doubt if the healthcare workers in Africa have the highest level of protective gear to wear. They make do with what is available.

Ebola is not an airborne virus. It is bodily fluids that spread it.

At least as far as we know - remember how it also would not make it to our shores? and no healthcare worker in the US would be at risk?

The problem is "we don't know", "what we don't know".

[kittygilchrist]

I really get.
Suspend all thought, and trust what the gov says. Nothing bad is happening anywhere.

[kittygilchrist]

From my limited knowledge, Ebola does seem hard to contract. It doesn't persist very long in the open environment and is easy to kill. However, history would suggest that we are "being managed" and not told the complete story, as you suggested. Unless you are an "insider", it is hard to tell what is really going on. Whenever someone tried to convince me that "all is well", I tend to believe the opposite.

You cannot be seriously saying ebola is hard to get...

[tuccillo]

It is hard to get. It dies quickly outside the body. You need a fluid exchange. We can disagree on the definition of "hard to get" but you need direct contact with an infected person and they not contagious until symptoms develop. It could be much easier to be infected.

You cannot be seriously saying ebola is hard to get...

[wudda1955]

All I can think of is Stephen King's book, "The Stand." Very scary stuff.

[Lauren Sweeny]

If you have ever read any books on contagious diseases and airplane travel you will know that once any infectious disease is transported by an infected person it spreads. Google " sneezing or coughing" and find data that shows how fast and far droplets from these actions are dispersed into a confined area.
Even recent movie scenarios have described in gruesome detail how fast and how unprepared we are for a pandemic of any nature. Movie scenario based on scientific data provided by the WHO and CDC.
Preparedness, means being able to isolate ( self quarantine) oneself and family for the duration until disease burns itself out. Food, water, needed MEDS and No person to person contact during the breakout in your area will hopefully prevent your contracting and spreading any disease.

[janmcn]

If you have ever read any books on contagious diseases and airplane travel you will know that once any infectious disease is transported by an infected person it spreads. Google " sneezing or coughing" and find data that shows how fast and far droplets from these actions are dispersed into a confined area.
Even recent movie scenarios have described in gruesome detail how fast and how unprepared we are for a pandemic of any nature. Movie scenario based on scientific data provided by the WHO and CDC.
Preparedness, means being able to isolate ( self quarantine) oneself and family for the duration until disease burns itself out. Food, water, needed MEDS and No person to person contact during the breakout in your area will hopefully prevent your contracting and spreading any disease.


Its so refreshing to hear from someone willing to take responsibility for themselves and not depending on the government to take care of them.

Besides airplanes, I would add stay away from cruise ships. Remember the 'poop cruise' last year when people were stuck out at sea with no power for several days? Just think what would have happened with Ebola running rampant.

Other places to stay away from would be hospitals, nursing homes, public swimming pools, public restrooms, and any crowded event. Keep taking your temperature periodically and report any sign of Ebola.

[gomoho]

[QUOTE=janmcn;952017]Its so refreshing to hear from someone willing to take responsibility for themselves and not depending on the government to take care of them.

FYI - the primary purpose of our government it to protect us.

[Sandtrap328]

It is kind of amazing to see the politicians who have spoken out against having Federal government being too big are now saying there should be a "czar" in charge of the Ebola problem.

Personally, I think if a person has been in or traveled through any of the West African countries in the past 45 days, they should not be allowed entrance to the US for three months.

[billethkid]

there is no way the government will tell the truth or the CDC.

The best info is to research for yourself and then develope your comfort based on what YOU KNOW and not what some government and media parrots WANT you to know.

If it in fact is only communicable from the bodily fluids of an infected individual then you should be able to determine your odds of that happening.

Wash your hands.
Don't touch your face.
And all the other usual precautions.

Then write to your lawmakers and POTUS demanding more stringent controls. For example England has banned certain people coming from the infected areas.
The USA has elected not to do so. (don't want to offend anybody or give a bad impression).

One country taking specific action to protect it's people.
The other taking the usual let's wait and see and not upset those passengers who want to come here.

Wait and see ONLY MEANS let's see how bad it gets before we THINK about doing something.

Wait and see = pending disaster!

[sunnyatlast]

A seemingly minor mistake in removing the protective wear was a terrible mistake. Personally, I doubt if the healthcare workers in Africa have the highest level of protective gear to wear. They make do with what is available.

Ebola is not an airborne virus. It is bodily fluids that spread it.

NY Times -
What We’re Afraid to Say About Ebola
By MICHAEL T. OSTERHOLM
SEPTEMBER 11, 2014

...... "The second possibility is one that virologists are loath to discuss openly but are definitely considering in private: that an Ebola virus could mutate to become transmissible through the air. You can now get Ebola only through direct contact with bodily fluids. But viruses like Ebola are notoriously sloppy in replicating, meaning the virus entering one person may be genetically different from the virus entering the next. The current Ebola virus’s hyper-evolution is unprecedented; there has been more human-to-human transmission in the past four months than most likely occurred in the last 500 to 1,000 years. Each new infection represents trillions of throws of the genetic dice.

If certain mutations occurred, it would mean that just breathing would put one at risk of contracting Ebola. Infections could spread quickly to every part of the globe, as the H1N1 influenza virus did in 2009, after its birth in Mexico.

Why are public officials afraid to discuss this? They don’t want to be accused of screaming “Fire!” in a crowded theater — as I’m sure some will accuse me of doing. But the risk is real, and until we consider it, the world will not be prepared to do what is necessary to end the epidemic......"

Michael T. Osterholm is the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/12/opinion/what-were-afraid-to-say-about-ebola.html

[billethkid]

NY Times -
What We’re Afraid to Say About Ebola
By MICHAEL T. OSTERHOLM
SEPTEMBER 11, 2014

...... "The second possibility is one that virologists are loath to discuss openly but are definitely considering in private: that an Ebola virus could mutate to become transmissible through the air. You can now get Ebola only through direct contact with bodily fluids. But viruses like Ebola are notoriously sloppy in replicating, meaning the virus entering one person may be genetically different from the virus entering the next. The current Ebola virus’s hyper-evolution is unprecedented; there has been more human-to-human transmission in the past four months than most likely occurred in the last 500 to 1,000 years. Each new infection represents trillions of throws of the genetic dice.

If certain mutations occurred, it would mean that just breathing would put one at risk of contracting Ebola. Infections could spread quickly to every part of the globe, as the H1N1 influenza virus did in 2009, after its birth in Mexico.

Why are public officials afraid to discuss this? They don’t want to be accused of screaming “Fire!” in a crowded theater — as I’m sure some will accuse me of doing. But the risk is real, and until we consider it, the world will not be prepared to do what is necessary to end the epidemic......"

Michael T. Osterholm is the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/12/opinion/what-were-afraid-to-say-about-ebola.html

So let us assume the risks are real. Future actions and plans are based on developing realistic expectations of what COULD happen or COULD go wrong.
Then developing a preventative action plan BEFORE things begin to ramp up and move quickly.

Waiting until it does become airborne......no not even airborn.....WAITING to see what the current strain does before executing a plan (executing assumes there is a plan).

Do not wait and see what the government will do (or more importantly not do)....educate oneself now and take appropriate steps to the best of one's ability/capability to protect yourself and your family.

Just remember in the event of an outbreak the usual medical treatment availability will not exist. The system will very quickly become overwhelmed.

Plan ahead as mucgh as is practical.

[dplars]

My motto has been to plan for the worse and hope for the best, good practice these days. I agree, the government will try to minimize the risk, most of our bureaucrats are now politicians(eg: IRS, HHS, NSA, etc.) and will spew the company line. Take care of yourself and try to build the immune system. Now I wonder how to handle he cruise already booked in December? Anyone have a hazmat suit?

[fb32162]

Ebola is wide spread in Africa in large part because religious practices include family members bathing the deceased. They do this without gloves so the disease is transmitted rapidly through a country. While it is highly contagious, transmission on the magnitude seen in African countries is unlikely.

[sunnyatlast]

So let us assume the risks are real. Future actions and plans are based on developing realistic expectations of what COULD happen or COULD go wrong.
Then developing a preventative action plan BEFORE things begin to ramp up and move quickly.

Waiting until it does become airborne......no not even airborn.....WAITING to see what the current strain does before executing a plan (executing assumes there is a plan).

Do not wait and see what the government will do (or more importantly not do)....educate oneself now and take appropriate steps to the best of one's ability/capability to protect yourself and your family.

Just remember in the event of an outbreak the usual medical treatment availability will not exist. The system will very quickly become overwhelmed.

Plan ahead as mucgh as is practical.

Limit airline travel from West Africa to this country until containment/treatment facilities are built there and here. Period.

An outbreak of dying and dead workers, or workers refusing to go to work amongst our biggest hospitals' doctors, nurses, techs, and paramedic-firefighters will debilitate our whole infrastructure, leading to chaos. It is the "perfect storm" brewing to take our nation down.

[Rags123]

It is kind of amazing to see the politicians who have spoken out against having Federal government being too big are now saying there should be a "czar" in charge of the Ebola problem.

Personally, I think if a person has been in or traveled through any of the West African countries in the past 45 days, they should not be allowed entrance to the US for three months.

I think most who ".....have spoken out against having Federal government being too big" are referring to issues where individual states should and have traditionally taken charge...this is the growth opposed.

This case of Ebola, according to our constitution, if anyone cares, clearly falls into the preview of the federal government.

By the way, about a month ago, someone on here said....what can the federal government do.....I repeat...there are over 1300 visas involving folks in the critical areas. ONLY the President, I think he is the only one..will stand corrected if congress can also, but my understanding he is the only person that can prevent entry from those critical countries. I repeat what I said.....stop, at least those with the highest potential for bringing this virus into the USA.

[eweissenbach]

Jon Stewart: Save Americans From Ebola & ISIS, But Not From Guns & Heart Disease (Pt 1) - YouTube

[Rags123]

Jon Stewart: Save Americans From Ebola & ISIS, But Not From Guns & Heart Disease (Pt 1) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNhnZZw38Og)

Not sure what this sarcastic piece of comedy has to do with anything.

Ebola kills, maybe not all americans but quite a few other human beings and needs to be restricted.

ISIS kills, maybe not all americans (yet) but maybe we should not care about any human beings other than americans....isnt that how we got where we are, ie. ignoring the children being shot in the streets in Syria ?

Not sure what message to take here. Obviously you and he both think these are not serious issues and need to make your pol....cal point with sarcasm.

So, your feeling on Ebola which is the subject of this thread is NOT to close anyone out....no matter where they are from.

So, your feeling on ISIS and Ebola together is that.....searching for the right word...not sure whether to say "a network" or a "par.y" feels that these are not issues to be concerned about ( I only say that because the video was pretty straightforward on its presentation and drift).

Well, I disagree....I find both of them to be serious issues and not something I think is remotely funny at all !

[tomwed]

We have a lot to be worried about: heart disease, cancer, diabetes, alzheimer's. As for diseases, ebola is just the blackboard special of the day. For a little while, every time I opened my mail I worried about anthrax.

[Sandtrap328]

I do not see a need to panic about Ebola but definitely to take precautions. This should include restrictions on entry to US from travelers from or through West African countries.

More restrictions may be needed later.

[gomoho]

5 people on a plane that landed in Boston exhibiting possible symptoms of Ebola. So now what do we do with the 5 and do the other passengers have to live on the plane for the next 21 days in case they also exhibit symptoms?

Also I'm curious - if I present myself to the ER with symptoms described as Ebola and state I have just returned from Africa does everyone go run and put on a hazmat suit and do they immediately begin disinfecting the ER where I have been sitting? Oh, and did I mention I felt too ill to drive myself so I took the bus or called a cab. And yes I did cough and spit during that transportation. Too many bizarre possibilities how this
can spread so isn't a no brainer to contain it in the country it is?

[sunnyatlast]

5 people on a plane that landed in Boston exhibiting possible symptoms of Ebola. So now what do we do with the 5 and do the other passengers have to live on the plane for the next 21 days in case they also exhibit symptoms?

Also I'm curious - if I present myself to the ER with symptoms described as Ebola and state I have just returned from Africa does everyone go run and put on a hazmat suit and do they immediately begin disinfecting the ER where I have been sitting? Oh, and did I mention I felt too ill to drive myself so I took the bus or called a cab. And yes I did cough and spit during that transportation.

Too many bizarre possibilities how this can spread, so isn't a no brainer to contain it in the country it is?

Well, this Ebola epidemic running unrestricted certainly has gotten Ukraine, Syria, ISIS, an Al Qaeda & Taliban-loving beheader in Oklahoma, and the next promised beheadings off the TV and computer screen…..a month before the elections.

A google search of 'news Alton Nolen Oklahoma beheading' brings up 191,000 results with the most recent article being October 1…..two weeks ago.

[billethkid]

Well, this Ebola epidemic running unrestricted certainly has gotten Ukraine, Syria, ISIS, an Al Qaeda & Taliban-loving beheader in Oklahoma, and the next promised beheadings off the TV and computer screen…..a month before the elections.

A google search of 'news Alton Nolen Oklahoma beheading' brings up 191,000 results with the most recent article being October 1…..two weeks ago.

Hmmnnnnnn.....maybe there was more to the statement made a few weeks when a certain politician said certain things are "MANAGEABLE"!!!!:shrug:

[gomoho]

OMG - I can't take it anymore.

[kittygilchrist]

It is hard to get. It dies quickly outside the body. You need a fluid exchange. We can disagree on the definition of "hard to get" but you need direct contact with an infected person and they not contagious until symptoms develop. It could be much easier to be infected.

Obama Orders Immediate Federal Action To Help Halt Spread Of Ebola (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/12/obama-ebola_n_5973320.html)

What? I thought it was not coming to the USA... I was relying on the gov to make ebola stay out...oh dear.

And it is so hard to get that professionally trained medical personnel get it taking their gloves off touching one wrist with the other glove.

[dbussone]

I'm sorry but as a former Heathcare provider there is plenty to worry about. The basis of infection control is avoidance. Avoidance consists, among other things, of keeping a potentially infected population out of our country, while also making sure we are using appropriate protection in the event someone here develops symptoms. What our "leaders" and CDC are doing is practicing political correctness.

The CDC is behind the curve already and our hospitals, with a few exceptions are not prepared.

I'm recently retired but my friends still in the business suggest we could be in deep trouble.

[cologal]

[QUOTE=tuccillo;951997]It is hard to get. It dies quickly outside the body. You need a fluid exchange. We can disagree on the definition of "hard to get" but you need direct contact with an infected person and they not contagious until symptoms develop. It could be much easier to be infected.



The virus has survived for at least 21 days outside the body

[dbussone]

[QUOTE=tuccillo;951997]It is hard to get. It dies quickly outside the body. You need a fluid exchange. We can disagree on the definition of "hard to get" but you need direct contact with an infected person and they not contagious until symptoms develop. It could be much easier to be infected.







The virus has survived for at least 21 days outside the body


The newest evidence is that it can be spread by small aerosol particles. Coughs, Sneezes, spit, etc this is not a good sign.

[cologal]

I'm sorry but as a former Heathcare provider there is plenty to worry about. The basis of infection control is avoidance. Avoidance consists, among other things, of keeping a potentially infected population out of our country, while also making sure we are using appropriate protection in the event someone here develops symptoms. What our "leaders" and CDC are doing is practicing political correctness.

The CDC is behind the curve already and our hospitals, with a few exceptions are not prepared.

I'm recently retired but my friends still in the business suggest we could be in deep trouble.

I to am a recently retired healthcare professional and I agree as this first case has already shown. We haven't had a disease requiring this level of protective equipment. To me that is the problem.

[golf2140]

Let's see. Aids started in Africa, Ebola started in Africa. How many millions have died of Aids. I am scared

[cologal]

Let's see. Aids started in Africa, Ebola started in Africa. How many millions have died of Aids. I am scared

Patient Zero for AIDS was a Canadian Flight Attendant....

[cologal]

5 people on a plane that landed in Boston exhibiting possible symptoms of Ebola. So now what do we do with the 5 and do the other passengers have to live on the plane for the next 21 days in case they also exhibit symptoms?

Also I'm curious - if I present myself to the ER with symptoms described as Ebola and state I have just returned from Africa does everyone go run and put on a hazmat suit and do they immediately begin disinfecting the ER where I have been sitting? Oh, and did I mention I felt too ill to drive myself so I took the bus or called a cab. And yes I did cough and spit during that transportation. Too many bizarre possibilities how this
can spread so isn't a no brainer to contain it in the country it is?

False alarm... People from Middle East not West Africa.

[Nightengale212]

I to am a recently retired healthcare professional and I agree as this first case has already shown. We haven't had a disease requiring this level of protective equipment. To me that is the problem.

This R.N. agrees with you!! What perplexes me about the entire Duncan case is that the only treatment for Ebola is supportive which includes oxygen to support the respiratory system, fluids and electrolytes to prevent dehydration, early anticoagulant therapy to prevent DIC, late procoagulant therapy to combat hemorrhage, and antibiotics to treat secondary bacterial and fungal infections. If a patient does not show early response to early treatment and then begin to deteoriate with the predictable outcome death, why on earth was Duncan invasively intubated and put on a vent, given hemodialysis, probably had an A-line, numerous IVs, a foley catheter, NG tube, etc, etc. ; more opportunities for fatally infectious body fluids to exit the body and infect another. I really wonder if these heroic measures were done to compensate for initially sending Duncan home the first go around, or were they trying to keep him alive to buy time in the hopes of getting some experimental drug or serum from Ebola survivor Dr. Brantly to adminster to him.

[sunnyatlast]

This R.N. agrees with you!! What perplexes me about the entire Duncan case is that the only treatment for Ebola is supportive which includes oxygen to support the respiratory system, fluids and electrolytes to prevent dehydration, early anticoagulant therapy to prevent DIC, late procoagulant therapy to combat hemorrhage, and antibiotics to treat secondary bacterial and fungal infections. If a patient does not show early response to early treatment and then begin to deteoriate with the predictable outcome death, why on earth was Duncan invasively intubated and put on a vent, given hemodialysis, probably had an A-line, numerous IVs, a foley catheter, NG tube, etc, etc. ; more opportunities for fatally infectious body fluids to exit the body and infect another. I really wonder if these heroic measures were done to compensate for initially sending Duncan home the first go around, or were they trying to keep him alive to buy time in the hopes of getting some experimental drug or serum from Ebola survivor Dr. Brantly to adminster to him.

Before any ebola patient in Dallas, the malpractice lawyers are always readily available regardless of ability to pay for lawyering, to sue the pants off any hospital or medical provider. Facts like nobody having a grip on Ebola yet do not matter to plaintiffs looking for money and the lawyers who empower them.

And then there are the Race Hustlers, who incite non-thinking people into screaming racism on every single malady that occurs to them, because there is money to be gotten from those claims, and in the always-brewing "Reparations" we supposedly owe the present-day "victims".

"The family of Thomas Eric Duncan, the first person to die of Ebola on U.S. soil, joined the Rev. Jesse Jackson at his Rainbow Push headquarters to call foul on the treatment Mr. Duncan received.

They say the treatment Duncan received was at best ‘incompetent’ and at worst ‘racially motivated.’

Duncan passed away last week, but his mom and nephew spoke out at Rainbow Push’s weekly gathering today.

The family is asking why Duncan wasn’t moved to Emory University Hospital, where Dr. Kent Brantly and Dr. Nancy Writebol received life saving treatment for Ebola.

Duncan’s nephew now wants all of his uncle’s medical records, where he will have them reviewed by independent doctors and contagious disease experts.

However, doctors at Texas Presbyterian Hospital, where Duncan was treated, say their staff was ‘well-equipped’ to handle his case.

The whole ordeal has left Duncan’s mother heartbroken.

Family members say they are considering some form of legal action against the hospital where Duncan received treatment……"


Family of Thomas Eric Duncan says his death from Ebola is ‘racially motivated’ | WGN-TV (http://wgntv.com/2014/10/11/family-of-thomas-eric-duncan-says-his-death-from-ebola-is-racially-motivated/)

[Jdmiata]

[QUOTE=murray607;95

I can't help but think back to the SARS epidemic, when it was initially announced that health authorities were on top of things and that there was little to worry about and then it progressed and we had increasing numbers of deaths including healthcare workers.[/QUOTE]

Just looked this up. Only eight people in the US got it and none died.
Over 8,000 got it globally.

[sunnyatlast]

Just looked this up. Only eight people in the US got it and none died.
Over 8,000 got it globally.

Comparing a disease that ended and had 9% of infected people die, with Ebola expanding exponentially and killing around 90% of infected people, pooh-poohs the worst epidemic in modern times---the ebola virus that world epidemiology experts are predicting will infect 10,000 victims per week by December……the virus that infected a bright young critical care nurse carefully using full-body hazmat gear as trained, and how it happened is still undetermined.

(Not that the cause being undetermined would stop Washington and CDC leaders from placing the blame on the nurse--who had the guts and dedication to go into the front lines of the war zone as they are not doing.)

[Sandtrap328]

……the virus that infected a bright young critical care nurse carefully using full-body hazmat gear as trained, and how it happened is still undetermined.

(Not that the cause being undetermined would stop Washington and CDC leaders from placing the blame on the nurse--who had the guts and dedication to go into the front lines of the war zone as they are not doing.)

Initial reports I read were that the hazmat suit was fine and the mistake occured when it was being removed. Mistake in protocol of removing the suit and it brushed against her face. Tragic but a preventible mistake.

As for Washington leaders not doing their part, what do you personally think should be done? Very possible you have an idea they in Washington have not thought of at this point.

[TexaninVA]

A seemingly minor mistake in removing the protective wear was a terrible mistake. Personally, I doubt if the healthcare workers in Africa have the highest level of protective gear to wear. They make do with what is available.

Ebola is not an airborne virus. It is bodily fluids that spread it.

I don't think anyone can say definitively it can't be spread via air. There is another strain, Ebola Zaire, that can be spread airborne

[TexaninVA]

Before any ebola patient in Dallas, the malpractice lawyers are always readily available regardless of ability to pay for lawyering, to sue the pants off any hospital or medical provider. Facts like nobody having a grip on Ebola yet do not matter to plaintiffs looking for money and the lawyers who empower them.

And then there are the Race Hustlers, who incite non-thinking people into screaming racism on every single malady that occurs to them, because there is money to be gotten from those claims, and in the always-brewing "Reparations" we supposedly owe the present-day "victims".

"The family of Thomas Eric Duncan, the first person to die of Ebola on U.S. soil, joined the Rev. Jesse Jackson at his Rainbow Push headquarters to call foul on the treatment Mr. Duncan received.

They say the treatment Duncan received was at best ‘incompetent’ and at worst ‘racially motivated.’

Duncan passed away last week, but his mom and nephew spoke out at Rainbow Push’s weekly gathering today.

The family is asking why Duncan wasn’t moved to Emory University Hospital, where Dr. Kent Brantly and Dr. Nancy Writebol received life saving treatment for Ebola.

Duncan’s nephew now wants all of his uncle’s medical records, where he will have them reviewed by independent doctors and contagious disease experts.

However, doctors at Texas Presbyterian Hospital, where Duncan was treated, say their staff was ‘well-equipped’ to handle his case.

The whole ordeal has left Duncan’s mother heartbroken.

Family members say they are considering some form of legal action against the hospital where Duncan received treatment……"


Family of Thomas Eric Duncan says his death from Ebola is ‘racially motivated’ | WGN-TV (http://wgntv.com/2014/10/11/family-of-thomas-eric-duncan-says-his-death-from-ebola-is-racially-motivated/)
Excellent post and spoken courageously without the PC so many others use at times

[NoMoSno]

As for Washington leaders not doing their part, what do you personally think should be done? Very possible you have an idea they in Washington have not thought of at this point.

Limit public travel coming into USA, from infected areas.
Like every other country is doing...

[gomoho]

Limit public travel coming into USA, from infected areas.
Like every other country is doing...

Thank you nomosno - can't for the life of me understand what the hell is wrong with the current administration that doesn't see how this would easily contain the virus, protect the citizens of this country, and prevent all these crazy ideas of setting up specific ebola facilities in each state to the tune of God only knows how many billions of dollars.

[kittygilchrist]

Well duh.... Cdc has been really present in Dallas for the last 48 hours, according to the director in a press conference today.
As usual I was yelling at the television how he got there too late when he said somewhat abashedly that he wished cdc had gotten there sooner.
Duh and double duh...

What really scares me is that I keep being right, 10 to 30 days ahead of media and the government. And I don't know squat.

[Barefoot]

Reply With Quote[QUOTE=Jdmiata;952852]Just looked this up. Only eight people in the US got it and none died.

The OP of this thread is from Canada where SARS did kill 44 people and there were 438 suspected cases.
Murray, I have also been thinking back to the SARS epidemic.
I had a family member in hospital with cancer during the worst of the SARS scare.
I remember how frightened we were to make daily visits to hospital. A lot of people wore masks when in public places.
After a few months, the Health Authorities were able to control it.
But it was a scary time.
And it pales in comparison to Ebola.

--------------------------------------------------

From newspaper:
SARS claimed 44 lives in Canada. Globally, it is estimated that 916 people died, 11 per cent of the people who were infected. A total of 438 Canadians – a mix of probable and suspect cases – likely had SARS. The official WHO count only lists probable cases; its final tally suggests 8,422 people were infected with the disease.

[sunnyatlast]

Initial reports I read were that the hazmat suit was fine and the mistake occured when it was being removed. Mistake in protocol of removing the suit and it brushed against her face. Tragic but a preventible mistake.

As for Washington leaders not doing their part, what do you personally think should be done? Very possible you have an idea they in Washington have not thought of at this point.

I wasn't talking about Washington leaders "not doing their part". I was talking about them BLAMING the nurse herself for the problem, while that is still not determined, and she is the one where the rubber meets the road, not them.

[Sophie11]

If the hospital had been equipped to handle this epidemic the nurse would of had her hazmat suit sprayed and removed by another person ): ….I feel so bad for the nurse and her family. ):

[janmcn]

If the hospital had been equipped to handle this epidemic the nurse would of had her hazmat suit sprayed and removed by another person ): ….I feel so bad for the nurse and her family. ):


If the hospital had been equipped to handle this epidemic, the emergency room nurse and doctors would not have sent a patient with 103 degree temperature home with a Tylenol after learning he had just been in Liberia.

This is a big hospital in a big city with excellent health care. Its scary to think what will happen at smaller hospitals in smaller or rural areas.

[graciegirl]

If the hospital had been equipped to handle this epidemic, the emergency room nurse and doctors would not have sent a patient with 103 degree temperature home with a Tylenol after learning he had just been in Liberia.

This is a big hospital in a big city with excellent health care. Its scary to think what will happen at smaller hospitals in smaller or rural areas.


Not many hospitals are ready...and few are ready completely. We should lock our doors before it is too late. We need to protect all of US for once and quit thinking about being politically correct. This is no baby game.

[Sandtrap328]

Well duh.... Cdc has been really present in Dallas for the last 48 hours, according to the director in a press conference today.
As usual I was yelling at the television how he got there too late when he said somewhat abashedly that he wished cdc had gotten there sooner.
Duh and double duh...

What really scares me is that I keep being right, 10 to 30 days ahead of media and the government. And I don't know squat.

Will you be at the TOTV gathering at crispers on Friday? Be nice to meet you!

[maddie101]

My son lives five minutes away from where Nina Pham lives. The restaurants and stores they shop at are in that direction. Who knows where she was right before getting the fever. My son's friend actually met Nina over the summer. Too close for comfort.

[gomoho]

And now a 2nd healthcare provided has tested positive. Wake up CDC and POTUS.

[kittygilchrist]

Boots on the ground in Africa for a medical crisis, but no never never in the middle east...
Medical personnel in A great Tx hospital are dominoes falling to ebola and we send TROOPS to AFRICA??!!
What the...

[maddie101]

Oh, yes, we have something to worry about!

[Breaking News update 11:25 a.m.]

The second Dallas health care worker with Ebola was on a flight from Cleveland to Dallas on Monday -- the day before she reported symptoms, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Wednesday. Because of the proximity in time between the Monday evening flight and the first report of her illness, the CDC wants to interview all 132 passengers on her flight -- Frontier Airlines Flight 1143 from Cleveland to Dallas/Fort Worth, which landed at 8:16 p.m. CT Monday, the CDC said.

Why was she allowed to travel if she was being "monitored?"

[janmcn]

Oh, yes, we have something to worry about!

[Breaking News update 11:25 a.m.]

The second Dallas health care worker with Ebola was on a flight from Cleveland to Dallas on Monday -- the day before she reported symptoms, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Wednesday. Because of the proximity in time between the Monday evening flight and the first report of her illness, the CDC wants to interview all 132 passengers on her flight -- Frontier Airlines Flight 1143 from Cleveland to Dallas/Fort Worth, which landed at 8:16 p.m. CT Monday, the CDC said.

Why was she allowed to travel if she was being "monitored?"


Breaking news on Ebola outbreak 2014 - breakingnews.com (http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/africa-ebola-outbreak-2014/)


Here is a link to this latest breaking news about the flight of the second Ebola victim.

[rubicon]

It has been my position from the first news report of Ebola expansion that the government should restrict travel to the US from West Africa . It has also been my position that the US should help containment in West African countries and not US. The US is spending huge amounts to establish the better protocols to treat Ebola here and Ebola cases will materialize.

Ebola virus on a continuum mutates and can pass from animal to human as did AIDS/HIV

[kittygilchrist]

Will you be at the TOTV gathering at crispers on Friday? Be nice to meet you!

I would like to meet you too, but I'm not sure about Friday. Enjoy yourself, you'll meet a lot of interesting characters.

[Cisco Kid]

CBS just said that the 2nd patient flew on plane the day before diagnosed.


Frontier Airlines flight 1143 Cleveland to Dallas/Fort Worth. The flight landed at 8:16 p.m. CT.

[Patty55]

Oh, yes, we have something to worry about!

[Breaking News update 11:25 a.m.]

The second Dallas health care worker with Ebola was on a flight from Cleveland to Dallas on Monday -- the day before she reported symptoms, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Wednesday. Because of the proximity in time between the Monday evening flight and the first report of her illness, the CDC wants to interview all 132 passengers on her flight -- Frontier Airlines Flight 1143 from Cleveland to Dallas/Fort Worth, which landed at 8:16 p.m. CT Monday, the CDC said.

Why was she allowed to travel if she was being "monitored?"

Why did they make the announcement looking for the passengers? I'm sure that Homeland Security has the passenger list.

How about the people she interacted with in Cleveland and in the airport? Did she use the ladies room?

[murray607]

With apologies to Shakespeare, this is becoming a real "Comedy of Errors"

But there is nothing funny about it. I started the thread and I have sat and read as my original postulation was challenged by some. But now, the reason for my question is starting to become more of a concern.

It is more than evident how unprepared we are. How many more hospitals are lacking in adequate policies and procedures for dealing not only with suspected cases, but more importantly in treating confirmed cases and in protecting the healthcare staff who are looking after those who are hospitalized with this terrible disease.

Now we learn that a second nurse who was a close contact of Mr Duncan flew on an airplane, sat in an airport lounge and most likely mingled with others while in Cleveland.

The threat is no longer contained in Dallas and although there are no other cases so far outside of Dallas, the possibility is real.

So, my original question "Do we really have anything to worry about?" unfortunately has been answered and I am not liking the answer!

[TexaninVA]

The hapless federal government, led by non-leaders, does not know what it’s doing, and they refuse to take even the most basic steps to protect us. It is a no-brainer to restrict travel from West African countries with the disease, yet we continue to get hot air, rationalizations and no action. The politically correct DoD appointees tell us climate change is the biggest threat while ISIS surrounds Baghdad … WTF?? The CDC tell us no problem, follow the “protocols” that exist on paper but not in practice, and then blame the nurse. Anyone who has any experience in large organizations (military, business etc) KNOWS that people never get it right the right time. Exception processing (ie doing something new) always requires time, training and leadership to get it right.

Yet, the people running the show fiddle away disengaged while Rome is now beginning to show signs of smoke. I think there is a building, slow-motion fury amongst the populace nationwide that will surprise people when it is finally uncorked. When people lose trust and feel unsafe, and as one example, they will throw out the entire elected and appointed leadership at the ballot box. They will keep doing it until they finally find leaders who will listen to our concerns and do the right thing. The single, most basic function of government is to protect the people from harm and, as of today, they are simply not cutting the mustard.

Is anyone in Washington DC truly paying attention to our concerns?

[dbussone]

Thank you nomosno - can't for the life of me understand what the hell is wrong with the current administration that doesn't see how this would easily contain the virus, protect the citizens of this country, and prevent all these crazy ideas of setting up specific ebola facilities in each state to the tune of God only knows how many billions of dollars.


They are too concerned about being politically correct and have been lying for so long they no longer recognize the truth.

[kittygilchrist]

Or their agenda matches IS. Who knows?

[Lauren Sweeny]

Well said folks ...now we ,the people, need to be responsible for ourselves! Begin preparing for the worst ,you can never be too ready... Stocking up needed items for self ( family) quarantine is a good start, for the possibility of this calamity.
If you feel the sense that Florida, airports and other social gathering places in the state or nearby give you pause ,believe in your instincts,do not wait to be told by the media/ powers that be. It is my opinion they do not seem to be doing a good job of acting in the publics best interest.

[kittygilchrist]

With apologies to Shakespeare, this is becoming a real "Comedy of Errors"

But there is nothing funny about it. I started the thread and I have sat and read as my original postulation was challenged by some. But now, the reason for my question is starting to become more of a concern.

It is more than evident how unprepared we are. How many more hospitals are lacking in adequate policies and procedures for dealing not only with suspected cases, but more importantly in treating confirmed cases and in protecting the healthcare staff who are looking after those who are hospitalized with this terrible disease.

Now we learn that a second nurse who was a close contact of Mr Duncan flew on an airplane, sat in an airport lounge and most likely mingled with others while in Cleveland.

The threat is no longer contained in Dallas and although there are no other cases so far outside of Dallas, the possibility is real.

So, my original question "Do we really have anything to worry about?" unfortunately has been answered and I am not liking the answer!

Thank you for starting it and for stepping up with courage to move on.
We all learn if we are healthy. We only step out if we care.

[maddie101]

Newest update says nurse DID have slight fever ON THE PLANE. I know, I know....not airborne , .... How many of you get sick from recirculated air on a plane? I don't get sick often, but I tend to get ill after flights from time to time

Pressed on the question, he said: "She should not have traveled on a commercial airliner" and noted that "from this moment forward we will make sure that any individual who is being monitored" should not travel on public transportation.

Frieden said she had an elevated temperature on the flight home to Dallas (99.5F) , but short of the fever threshold. The CDC believes she presents a low risk to fellow passengers, he said.

The virus is not contagious until a person starts showing symptoms, and the likelihood of it being passed on an airplane is considered extremely low.

Judge Jenkins said during the news conference that the 47 original "contact traces" who had contact with Duncan, who died a week ago from the disease, were nearing the end of the Ebola incubation period and were all symptom-free. The possibility that any of them would become symptomatic at this point, he said, is "extremely remote."

Dallas Mayor Mike Rawlings said that cleaning at the newest patient's apartment was "done as soon as possible" and that the patient "lived alone and without pets."

[gomoho]

"Judge Jenkins said during the news conference that the 47 original "contact traces" who had contact with Duncan, who died a week ago from the disease, were nearing the end of the Ebola incubation period and were all symptom-free. The possibility that any of them would become symptomatic at this point, he said, is "extremely remote."

As I mentioned on a new thread - doesn't it seem strange that none of the family members caring for Mr. Duncan before he was admitted to the hospital are symptom free, but the nurses that took precautions are infected? Someone mentioned a doctor said the longer you have ebola the more contagious you are - perhaps that explains things.

[NJMartha]

Agree with Lauren Sweeny,

[rubicon]

Well it hasn't been likely that the Ebola virus can mutate to an airborne version for sometime it has been established that the Ebola virus can be carried in the air in the form of "droplets" So someone with Ebola that is near you, like on a plane, can sneeze in your direction and........................................

The government has always known this and they still did not institute travel restrictions.

An ABC/Washington Post poll indicates 67% of Americans want travel restrictions, that is no flights to the USA from any country experiencing outbreaks with the Ebola virus. if the USA continues with such cases that should include us until we get this disease under control

Holiday season is upon us and it is going to make people very nervous

consider further that in our local area schools are closing because of virus outbreaks. My point is that outbreaks are silent until they are not

[Schaumburger]

Amber Vinson, the second nurse from Dallas who has been diagnosed with Ebola, is being transported to Emory University Hospital in Atlanta which has more specialized facilities to treat this virus.

[sunnyatlast]

How hard would it have been (ooops…..I mean "How politically damaging would it have been") for CDC to have told the Dallas hospital workers in direct contact with Patient One's "explosive" and "projectile" body fluids that they are prohibited from taking public transportation for 21 days??

And can't those walk-thru body scanners at the airport calculate a person's body temperature?? Surely it calculates mass, weight, etc.

[CFrance]

Initial reports I read were that the hazmat suit was fine and the mistake occured when it was being removed. Mistake in protocol of removing the suit and it brushed against her face. Tragic but a preventible mistake.

As for Washington leaders not doing their part, what do you personally think should be done? Very possible you have an idea they in Washington have not thought of at this point.
I agree with this. Many are accusing Washington and particularly the current administration, and more specifically the POTUS, for being PC. Many opinions have been stated as fact in this thread, but no proof of this has been offered.

Was air travel restricted during SARS? The H1N1 virus? I don't remember.

[TexaninVA]

I agree with this. Many are accusing Washington and particularly the current administration, and more specifically the POTUS, for being PC. Many opinions have been stated as fact in this thread, but no proof of this has been offered.

Was air travel restricted during SARS? The H1N1 virus? I don't remember.

Ebola is potentially a lot more deadly than SARS or H1NI, particularly if Ebola mutates like one variant of it (Ebola Zaire) already has and is able to go airborne. Ebola has a death rate anywhere between 59-90% of those who get it as well.

Thus, here's a simple question for you ... why has "Washington" not yet suspended travel into the US from those countries in West Africa where Ebola has broken out?

[Sandtrap328]

Thus, here's a simple question for you ... why has "Washington" not yet suspended travel into the US from those countries in West Africa where Ebola has broken out?

Since you state it is a simple question, what do you believe is the answer?

[TexaninVA]

Since you state it is a simple question, what do you believe is the answer?

Sorry, I asked CFrance ... it's her answer that I'm curious about thus I'll wait for her to respond

[dbussone]

Amber Vinson, the second nurse from Dallas who has been diagnosed with Ebola, is being transported to Emory University Hospital in Atlanta which has more specialized facilities to treat this virus.


Per a recent report, she is a nurses aide, not an RN. Far less training and no business having direct patient care responsibilities with an Ebola patient.

[dbussone]

I agree with this. Many are accusing Washington and particularly the current administration, and more specifically the POTUS, for being PC. Many opinions have been stated as fact in this thread, but no proof of this has been offered.



Was air travel restricted during SARS? The H1N1 virus? I don't remember.


In some cases it was, given the outbreak of SARS, there were geographic restrictions in place.

[Radioman41]

Some scientists believe Ebola has the potential to go airborne. See below article.

The Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP; "SID-wrap") is a global leader in addressing public health preparedness and emerging infectious disease response. Founded in 2001, CIDRAP is part of the Academic Health Center at the University of Minnesota."

The full punchline from the CIDRAP report:

We believe there is scientific and epidemiologic evidence that Ebola virus has the potential to be transmitted via infectious aerosol particles both near and at a distance from infected patients, which means that healthcare workers should be wearing respirators, not facemasks.
In other words, airborne.

Link to entire article:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-13/cidrap-we-believe-there-scientific-evidence-ebola-has-potential-be-airborne

[Rags123]

In some cases it was, given the outbreak of SARS, there were geographic restrictions in place.

I have advocated travel restrictions from day one. THAT means nothing, of course...I realize that.

We have been just a bit late on the last few world crisis situations and are paying for it, and everyone knows that is true. Please let us not be late on this if it expands.

One huge difference....on all those diseases that were used for an example, I think each had a vaccine....NONE for Ebola.

Why hasnt this been done...I pray that their wisdom has expanded a lot since our tardiness on other issues (which are going to cost lives in the world), and they are doing the right thing. When you hear about porous borders...when you hear about our lack of enforcing our law on the border....it just is scary. The last nurse was on a plane with over 100 people.....if ONE, JUST ONE had some sort of accidental contact and took it home to their family....infected a few, especially children...and away we go.
It could happen.

Would a travel ban from these countries work to protect us...who knows. I do know that most African countries have those bans already.

I do understand all the concerns about doing it.....I just do not like to hear that it is "off the table"....it is that verbage...or "not in consideration" that bothers me.

Seems to me, that if you were to over react, this would be the kind of situation to overreact with !

There is an article in the Wall Street Journal on the very subject of travel bans. The basic thought is that doing that alone is wrong and also provides a case about how it may hurt, but it gives a lot of statistics worked up....

"Professor Alex Vespignani, a physicist at Northeastern University in Boston, MA, has developed a computer model that predicts how air traffic affects the spread of Ebola."

It is a great article and worth reading.....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jvchamary/2014/10/13/ebola-travel/

What caught my eye....is this from the computer model....

"For most countries, the results indicate that an 80% air traffic reduction more than halves the probability of importing a case of Ebola. For the US, the risk is reduced from around 75% to 25%."

".....Nigeria, which has had one outbreak of 20 cases from a single importation from Liberia."

I am being positive with this situation and hoping and assuming this is a short term situation. If that is the case, the travel ban seems logical....I know it will not stop Ebola in its tracks, but saving just one case, if possible seems worth it.

[kittygilchrist]

And Rags, breaking news, CDC approved the 2nd nurse boarding the flight when she called first to ask....
Hard to stay positive when this is our best first response team. I do not see how we could perform any worse if we tried.

[asianthree]

Hospitals are now asking for volunteers to be trained by CDC for possible patients that may cross into their hospital.

[Lauren Sweeny]

Airborne droplets from cough or sneeze can travel up to 30 feet away at speeds of up 100 miles per hour,( Google various sites on this some differ on speed and distance) theses droplets remain on surfaces. Keep in mind ...airplane,crowded transportation ,schools,cruises,public venues...
Now we have that scenario...think exponentially from patient zero to those they came in contact and who were near enough to have droplets inhaled or hand touched on surfaces. Medical personnel are supposed to be protected( hazmat) yet they became infected....WAY TOO MANY anomalies .What is really going ?? The powers that be are not prepared but due not want mass panic...The rich, or elite will use their resources to travel elsewhere without caution ....the general population will be on there own( think Katrina N.O. )

[sunnyatlast]

Per a recent report, she is a nurses aide, not an RN. Far less training and no business having direct patient care responsibilities with an Ebola patient.

Not true. She is a licensed Registered Nurse in Texas according to the license verification here:

https://www.bon.texas.gov/licensure_verification.asp ("Verify License" Tab in right column)
(Name)
License Type: REGISTERED NURSE
Resides in: DALLAS TX 75206
Issued on: 8/22/2012
Licensure Status: CURRENT - 12/31/2014
Compact License: NO
Current Disciplinary Action: NONE

[CFrance]

Ebola is potentially a lot more deadly than SARS or H1NI, particularly if Ebola mutates like one variant of it (Ebola Zaire) already has and is able to go airborne. Ebola has a death rate anywhere between 59-90% of those who get it as well.

Thus, here's a simple question for you ... why has "Washington" not yet suspended travel into the US from those countries in West Africa where Ebola has broken out?
Because, as has been opined earlier, it won't work anyway. there are many ways to get around that suspension. As Madelaine Amee stated, the world is flat. Her opinion, and mine too.

[Rags123]

I agree with this. Many are accusing Washington and particularly the current administration, and more specifically the POTUS, for being PC. Many opinions have been stated as fact in this thread, but no proof of this has been offered.

Was air travel restricted during SARS? The H1N1 virus? I don't remember.

I want to be careful with my wording on this. I already posted a long post on my feelings about a travel ban, and our recent "slowness" in responding to world crisis.

I guess I just want to say this...Ebola..no travel ban on the table and not being considerd....this past summer to put pressure on Israel to sign a treaty, we DID issue many travel warnings and restrictions..not sure about a full blown ban, but THAT merited this consideration and risk of Ebola does not.

[BarryRX]

Just a reminder that here in The Villages, more people have been arrested for having sex on a utility box than have died from Ebola in the entire country.

[sunnyatlast]

Just a reminder that here in The Villages, more people have been arrested for having sex on a utility box than have died from Ebola in the entire country.

What kind of a comparison or statement is THAT??

[BarryRX]

I thought it obvious. We have almost 90 posts about something that is of no danger to any of us. A lot of,folks are spouting worst case scenarios, but so far ebola is statistically not dangerous to anyone here. You are about a million times more likely to die from heart disease or a car accident than Ebola, yet we appear to be more frightened of Ebola. Heck, the upcoming flu season is more dangerous to you. In the last three months that we have been worried about Ebola, 150,000 people have died of heart disease in this country. In the same time period, I think 2 people have died from Ebola in this country.

[sunnyatlast]

I thought it obvious. We have almost 90 posts about something that is of no danger to any of us. A lot of,folks are spouting worst case scenarios, but so far ebola is statistically not dangerous to anyone here. You are about a million times more likely to die from heart disease or a car accident than Ebola, yet we appear to be more frightened of Ebola. Heck, the upcoming flu season is more dangerous to you. In the last three months that we have been worried about Ebola, 150,000 people have died of heart disease in this country. In the same time period, I think 2 people have died from Ebola in this country.

"It's of no danger to anyone here." Try telling that to the passengers on the flight from Cleveland to Dallas Monday night, the night before the 2nd nurse was diagnosed with Ebola. Try telling that to the virologists and infectious disease researchers/directors at the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy, the director of which wrote this (excerpt):

"The second possibility is one that virologists are loath to discuss openly but are definitely considering in private: that an Ebola virus could mutate to become transmissible through the air. You can now get Ebola only through direct contact with bodily fluids. But viruses like Ebola are notoriously sloppy in replicating, meaning the virus entering one person may be genetically different from the virus entering the next. The current Ebola virus’s hyper-evolution is unprecedented; there has been more human-to-human transmission in the past four months than most likely occurred in the last 500 to 1,000 years. Each new infection represents trillions of throws of the genetic dice.

If certain mutations occurred, it would mean that just breathing would put one at risk of contracting Ebola. Infections could spread quickly to every part of the globe, as the H1N1 influenza virus did in 2009, after its birth in Mexico.

Why are public officials afraid to discuss this? They don’t want to be accused of screaming “Fire!” in a crowded theater — as I’m sure some will accuse me of doing. But the risk is real, and until we consider it, the world will not be prepared to do what is necessary to end the epidemic.

In 2012, a team of Canadian researchers proved that Ebola Zaire, the same virus that is causing the West Africa outbreak, could be transmitted by the respiratory route from pigs to monkeys, both of whose lungs are very similar to those of humans. Richard Preston’s 1994 best seller “The Hot Zone” chronicled a 1989 outbreak of a different strain, Ebola Reston virus, among monkeys at a quarantine station near Washington. The virus was transmitted through breathing, and the outbreak ended only when all the monkeys were euthanized. We must consider that such transmissions could happen between humans, if the virus mutates…."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/12/opinion/what-were-afraid-to-say-about-ebola.html

[kittygilchrist]

Ebola nurse Am​ber Vinson called CDC several times before flying - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-nurse-called-cdc-several-times/)

Scathing report of pathetic inadequacy. It is not so much ebola To be feared. We have clowns in charge of everything.

[Lauren Sweeny]

Apathy , can be dangerous to you,your family and the community you live in. Aesop fable about the grasshopper and the ant reminds one that being prepared is better than having to suffer for lack of preparedness . Caution is understandable , but the growing numbers of Ebola cases and the inability to control its spread indicates an issue that should not be downplayed or ignored as many in TV are writing in these post. Posable or probable,are words that describe the situation here in Florida. The fact remains this state is a tourist destination,( parks,cruising,retirees families visiting ,the Northerners escaping bad weather, and lastly the holidays are coming with high travel)
I do not mind if I have to " eat my words" or suffer someone saying" We told you so.." if this situation does not spread. My opinion , It is fine for me to have hurt feelings then be dead!

[CFrance]

Ebola nurse Am​ber Vinson called CDC several times before flying - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-nurse-called-cdc-several-times/)

Scathing report of pathetic inadequacy. It is not so much ebola To be feared. We have clowns in charge of everything.
Well, that was definitive in that she called, so she is off the hook. What is wrong here is the 100.4 degree guideline. Who decided that, and why? If someone who worked with an ebola patient showed ANY fever, you would think they'd tell her to stay off an airplane.

And you have to wonder exactly how the CDC is "turning up the heat" on every hospital. Just saying "Be prepared" isn't going to cut it.

[graciegirl]

Just a reminder that here in The Villages, more people have been arrested for having sex on a utility box than have died from Ebola in the entire country.


Barry. I don't understand your post.

AT THIS TIME, WE are relatively safe. But what if it was your daughter on that medical team, or what if you found you sat next to that nurse on her flight?

This is a disease if contracted has a 90% mortality rate. One that has no immunization and no treatment. The doctor that survived gave his blood to the woman that survived so it is possible that antibodies are the answer but to effectively make a treatment available to the masses is years away.

We have no crisis at this point, and that is the time to act, not when we have people entering hospitals with untrained teams and moving about spreading the disease before it becomes evident they are sick.

I am confused as to why those who are usually to the political left are the ones making light of it, joking about it and dismissing it.

Am I being not "cool" to worry about it? I sure as hell don't want to be "uncool".

Not directing this at you Barry, because I have the utmost respect for your intelligence, science and know you are both fair and kind.

I am really confused about why all people don't see that something unusual and difficult must be done NOW to save us from an epidemic of Ebola.

[billethkid]

GG your sentiments are right on target with most rational thinking people. Those who make light are either too politically bent to think on their own, don't know enough to be concerned, playing macho or just plain dumb!!!

[dbussone]

Not true. She is a licensed Registered Nurse in Texas according to the license verification here:

https://www.bon.texas.gov/licensure_verification.asp ("Verify License" Tab in right column)
(Name)
License Type: REGISTERED NURSE
Resides in: DALLAS TX 75206
Issued on: 8/22/2012
Licensure Status: CURRENT - 12/31/2014
Compact License: NO
Current Disciplinary Action: NONE

I couldn't open the link but thanks for the correction. At least 2 news sources were reporting what I stated.

[sunnyatlast]

Clowns in charge of everything is right. Now, 13 nurses from Cleveland Clinic and Metro health in Cleveland were on the infected nurse's flight on Friday, and there is another article about 5 nurses from Canton being on the flight too. They were put on paid leave by the hospitals.

What kind of a boob would approve that nurse to mingle at two airports, distant cities, and get on a jetliner twice?!?!

Cleveland Clinic, MetroHealth nurses on flight with Dallas Ebola patient, on paid leave | cleveland.com (http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2014/10/cleveland_clinic_metrohealth_n.html#incart_maj-story-1)

[graciegirl]

Lisa Monaco - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_Monaco)

I would prefer a person with medical expertise.

At this time we have an acting surgeon general. The previous one quit last year.

[Chi-Town]

An intersting and controlled response by Shep Smith regarding the Ebola situation: Non political also.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2KBfynW09I

[TexaninVA]

Ebola nurse Am​ber Vinson called CDC several times before flying - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-nurse-called-cdc-several-times/)

Scathing report of pathetic inadequacy. It is not so much ebola To be feared. We have clowns in charge of everything.

Isn't that the truth! I am amazed, appalled and angry at the sheer incompetence. Or is it malfeasance? I don't know but I do know, in military terms, it is totally UNSAT!!!

These jokers are playing with fire. The Secretary of State is in a wad over global warming WTF, yet his Department continues ... as of today ... to issue about 100 visas per day to people in the 3 affected West African countries.

The de facto message is ... sure, come on over to America. We'd love to have you. Ebola, no problem. We'll give you free medical care too, just like we gave Mr. Duncan ...something like $500K. If you're not happy with our free medical care, no worries, because you can sue the hospital if you want. No problem either if you lie on your form to get in either because, after all, we are the most compassionate (dumbest) people ever in world history. If I live in West Africa, and think I have Ebola, guess where I'm going catch a plane to?

This is either monumentally bad judgment, or an incapacitating political correctness type ideology. Either way, it impacts us the citizens.

Time to fire the top leaders and keep doing this until we get the right men/women in charge. We need strong, competent leadership. Oops I almost forgot ... we don't have that do we?

[sunnyatlast]

An intersting and controlled response by Shep Smith regarding the Ebola situation: Non political also.



Shep Smith being "Non political"……LOL…

[sunnyatlast]

So what did you think of the content of his message?

The content of his message is largely accurate and I like his independent style on FNC.

But I think it's too soon to definitively proclaim the virus cannot be gotten from inhaling or wiping onto one's face airborne droplets sneezed onto a person crammed into the plane seat next to the infected person. The virologists' article I cited before in this thread says this virus mutates genetically every time it enters and goes out of an infected person, in very "sloppy" fashion.

[sunnyatlast]

Fever is the screening process used to find people entering the country thru airlines, and is the indicator used to allow the nurse to travel by air. But this New England Journal of Medicine journal report shows that 13% of ebola victims did not have fevers.

Still too much doubt to say "nothing to see here, folks…..just move along…."

"For public health workers screening more than 1,000 air travelers who arrive each week in the United States from Ebola-stricken West Africa, one symptom above all others is supposed to signal danger: fever.

So long as an individual's temperature does not exceed 101.5 degrees and there are no visible symptoms of Ebola, health authorities say it should be assumed the person is not infectious.

Yet the largest study of the current outbreak found that in nearly 13% of "confirmed and probable" cases in Liberia, Sierra Leone, Guinea and elsewhere, those infected did not have fevers……"

Ebola research: Fever not a surefire sign of infection - LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-1012-ebola-fever-20141012-story.html)

[TexaninVA]

General Kelly is the 4-Star, chief of US Southern Command ... he recently said the following:

"The Pentagon’s top commander in South America has warned that if Ebola surfaces in Central America or the Caribbean, there will be a stampede of people heading north across the Rio Grande to the U.S. to escape the disease.

“If it breaks out, it’s literally, ‘Katie bar the door,’ and there will be mass migration into the United States,” Marine General John Kelly, chief of the U.S. Southern Command, said Tuesday. “They will run away from Ebola, or if they suspect they are infected, they will try to get to the United States for treatment.”

General Warns of 'Mass Migration' to U.S. if Ebola Comes to Americas (http://time.com/3486009/marine-general-john-kelly-ebola-migration/)

[Sandtrap328]

[QUOTE=TexaninVA;953883]General Kelly is the 4-Star, chief of US Southern Command ... he recently said the following:

"The Pentagon’s top commander in South America has warned that if Ebola surfaces in Central America or the Caribbean, there will be a stampede of people heading north across the Rio Grande to the U.S. to escape the disease.

“If it breaks out, it’s literally, ‘Katie bar the door,’ and there will be mass migration into the United States,” Marine General John Kelly, chief of the U.S. Southern Command, said Tuesday. “They will run away from Ebola, or if they suspect they are infected, they will try to get to the United States for treatment.”

That is a very possible event. Since you like to pose questions to others - I would like to hear your solution that would prevent such a "mass migration" that would be feasible right now. We agree, of course, that a high fence could be put all along the southern border but that would take a long time to construct and still would be permible in many areas. What else? Thousands of National Guard on 24/7 duty with shoot to kill orders (since putting illegals in detention is not an option)?

Please reply with your solutions.

[maddie101]

US Monitors Health Care Worker Aboard Cruise Ship - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/us-monitors-health-care-worker-aboard-cruise-ship-26262568)

Again, no symptoms, but why wasn't she required to stay in Dallas

[graciegirl]

[QUOTE=TexaninVA;953883]General Kelly is the 4-Star, chief of US Southern Command ... he recently said the following:

"The Pentagon’s top commander in South America has warned that if Ebola surfaces in Central America or the Caribbean, there will be a stampede of people heading north across the Rio Grande to the U.S. to escape the disease.

“If it breaks out, it’s literally, ‘Katie bar the door,’ and there will be mass migration into the United States,” Marine General John Kelly, chief of the U.S. Southern Command, said Tuesday. “They will run away from Ebola, or if they suspect they are infected, they will try to get to the United States for treatment.”

That is a very possible event. Since you like to pose questions to others - I would like to hear your solution that would prevent such a "mass migration" that would be feasible right now. We agree, of course, that a high fence could be put all along the southern border but that would take a long time to construct and still would be permible in many areas. What else? Thousands of National Guard on 24/7 duty with shoot to kill orders (since putting illegals in detention is not an option)?

Please reply with your solutions.

Please reply with YOUR solutions.

[gomoho]

Personally I would rather see the National Guard on the borders if needed than sent to Africa to fight Ebola as proposed yesterday by POTUS.

[billethkid]

the need for details has always been both a blessing and at times a curse for me all my life.

I for one would like to know exactly what is the mission of these troops?
What is the responsibility of the rank and file?
How long of a tour is it?
What constitutes success?
What are the criteria for exit scenario?
What procedures are in place for when one of our own becomes infected?

One does not just order in 3000+ service men and women without knowing AT LEAST the above. It is called planning and following up and these are not strengths of the current administration repeatedly demonstrated in any number of crises in the recent past.

I am concerned for those being sent to Africa and who knows they may well be needed here at home in the near future!!

[Cisco Kid]

The will make you feel better about those saving us from ebola.


‘Clipboard Dude’ Who Helps Ebola Patient Aboard a Flight Sets Twitter Ablaze – But There’s a Reason For It (http://www.ijreview.com/2014/10/188762-mystery-clipboard-dude-helping-ebola-patient-board-flight-sets-twitter-ablaze/)

[janmcn]

It has just been reported that President Obama will appoint Ron Klain to the position of Ebola Tsar.

[graciegirl]

It has just been reported that President Obama will appoint Ron Klain to the position of Ebola Tsar.


Does he have a medical background?

[Cisco Kid]

Does he have a medical background?

No, all political

[Cisco Kid]

He will tell us who to blame

[janmcn]

Does he have a medical background?

No, his education is in law. He graduated from Georgetown University and Harvard Law School and has held many political positions.

Ron Klain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Klain)

[graciegirl]

No, his education is in law. He graduated from Georgetown University and Harvard Law School and has held many political positions.

Ron Klain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Klain)

I read that too. But what I think we need is a person who knows medicine and knows how this disease is spread and has run a large medical facility like Walter Reed. Georgetown and Harvard are quite impressive, but what we don't need is another danged lawyer-politician who isn't quite clear where his fibula is.

[billethkid]

EBola Czar.?
And his qualifications are?
His responsibilities are?
His authority is what?
His assignment is to do what?

Where is the surgeon general? Oh, that job has been vacant for how many months? That should be an indicator of the priority.

Based on past performance of czars I remain cynical and suspect.

[janmcn]

EBola Czar.?
And his qualifications are?
His responsibilities are?
His authority is what?
His assignment is to do what?

Where is the surgeon general? Oh, that job has been vacant for how many months? That should be an indicator of the priority.

Based on past performance of czars I remain cynical and suspect.

The surgeon general position has been vacant because Senator Rand Paul blocked President Obama's nominee last February because of pressure from the NRA. Google has many hits on this information.

[janmcn]

I read that too. But what I think we need is a person who knows medicine and knows how this disease is spread and has run a large medical facility like Walter Reed. Georgetown and Harvard are quite impressive, but what we don't need is another danged lawyer-politician who isn't quite clear where his fibula is.

Ron Klain's job will be as manager of all the government agencies involved in the Ebola virus outbreak. No one has suggested that he would be treating infected patientsl

[rubicon]

We have 112 post so far concerning this issue which matches the concern about the government's handling of this epidemic nationwide and in addition it has the attention o the world.

Thirty countries have travel bans and in addition European countries one by one are issuing bans.

America has always understood the the rationale of fighting a war abroad and not bringing it to our shores. But here we have government telling us that we can prepare here. However we are not prepared and it is costing us billions to prepare.

Dr. Frieden of the CDC is the same Dr. Frieden who was Mayor Bloomberg's Health Director in New York and is better at restricting super size soda than fighting Ebola. Dr Frieden's protocols were said to be very confusing and led to the infections in Dallas.

Both the UN WHO and the US CDC are said to be in decay from many medical experts.

The government aid that they will inspect passengers meaning if they have no fever then they are headed here. so let me ask IF YOU HAD THE INDICATIONS OF A FEVER WOULDN'T YOU TAKE AN ASPIRN OR EQUIVALENT TO CONTROL IT?

The Ebola virus is mutating and its anyone guess the ultimate result.

However we do know that it can be transmitted by droplets in the air which means someone who sneezes or coughs has send it airborne.

The people in West Africa are bribing medical people to leave their dead so that they can give them proper burials which includes several days of cleansing and kissing

[sunnyatlast]

It has just been reported that President Obama will appoint Ron Klain to the position of Ebola Tsar.

Tsars are an ousted Russian rule.

[dbussone]

The surgeon general position has been vacant because Senator Rand Paul blocked President Obama's nominee last February because of pressure from the NRA. Google has many hits on this information.

There is an acting surgeon general who has been more quiet than a door mouse being stalked by a cat.

[graciegirl]

The surgeon general position has been vacant because Senator Rand Paul blocked President Obama's nominee last February because of pressure from the NRA. Google has many hits on this information.


Huh?

In the past we had no trouble finding a surgeon general. I do believe we need one.

[cologal]

There are no direct flights from West Africa to the US. FYI

[Cisco Kid]

"You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before." - Rahm Emanuel

[maddie101]

Cozumel did not give clearance for Carnival Magic due to that employee from the Dallas hospital being a passenger. Other countries are blocking travel to save their citizens. They are taking no chances. The cruise ship had to leave the port and is heading back to Galveston

[Rags123]

The surgeon general position has been vacant because Senator Rand Paul blocked President Obama's nominee last February because of pressure from the NRA. Google has many hits on this information.

The position is vacant due to Harry Reid tabling the nomination because he did not want to have this young inexperienced man to become an issue in the election.

It cannot be blocked, as the Democratics have total control over the senate, and Mr. Reid also changed the rules a while back so only a simple majority is required. He, and the party decided not to push it, but they could have and can.

This is NOT political.....simply correcting a very incorrect fact previously posted. Trying to stay non political, but the mention of Paul, without those of the other party who joined him in blocking the vote initially would be a total violation of posting facts instead of political conjecture


Previous Senate guidelines would have required Reid to round up 60 votes to overcome filibusters and advance to the final stage, but the Senate approved new rules in November that allow the process to move forward with a simple majority voting for cloture — the old rules still apply for Supreme Court nominees.

Paul’s hold only makes the confirmation process more difficult rather than halting it

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/federal_government/rand-paul-adds-hurdle-for-surgeon-general-confirmation/2014/02/26/db9cb346-9f22-11e3-b8d8-94577ff66b28_story.html

[Cisco Kid]

Does he have a medical background?


No, but he did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[cologal]

How can we stop flights when no direct flights fly here?

[sunnyatlast]

How can we stop flights when no direct flights fly here?

Stop the people. They need a visa to enter the U.S.

"According to the Washington Post, the number of visas issued to Liberians by the United States has spiked, with about 3,500 visitor visas granted to Liberians last year, and another 10,000 granted to people from Guinea and Sierra Leone during that same time period.

The Post also reported that Liberians also have a very high rate of "visa overstays,"the fifth highest after Cuba, Burundi, Eritrea and the Democratic Republic of Congo, according to immigration expert Jessica Vaughn with the Center for Immigration Studies. Vaughn has sharply criticized the Obama administration's immigration policies regarding Ebola, noting that Kenya and other African countries have closed their borders to any travelers from Ebola-afflicted areas."

DHS Started Expediting Visa Extensions from Ebola Countries in August (http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Texas/2014/10/17/DHS-Started-Expediting-Visa-Extensions-From-Ebola-Countries-in-August)

[KayakerNC]

Cozumel did not give clearance for Carnival Magic due to that employee from the Dallas hospital being a passenger. Other countries are blocking travel to save their citizens. They are taking no chances. The cruise ship had to leave the port and is heading back to Galveston

STOP all travel from Texas! :boxing2:
Update: Travel ban for Texas health care workers in Ebola case

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/17/texas-ebola-health-care-workers-travel-ban/17424465/

[gomoho]

A defense contract worker who was in Liberia 2 weeks ago had to get off a bus she was riding because she was feeling ill and vomited. Please God not another one.

[janmcn]

A defense contract worker who was in Liberia 2 weeks ago had to get off a bus she was riding because she was feeling ill and vomited. Please God not another one.

Where did this happen?

It was very concerning to hear that there are only nine beds available in the entire country to treat those effected with Ebola, and we know that at least three of them are occupied at this time. Dallas officials said earlier that one of the reasons they moved the first nurse was because they expect there to be other cases soon.

[billethkid]

If those in Washington are not in favor of banning flights that is certainly no problem what so ever.

All they have to do is route all flights from that part of Africa and all connecting flights to arrive in Washington DC!!!!!!

[Rags123]

Where did this happen?

It was very concerning to hear that there are only nine beds available in the entire country to treat those effected with Ebola, and we know that at least three of them are occupied at this time. Dallas officials said earlier that one of the reasons they moved the first nurse was because they expect there to be other cases soon.

"WASHINGTON—An Ebola scare has shut down a parking lot and entrance to the Pentagon.

The Defense Department said on Friday that it had cordoned off the parking lot outside the Pentagon and an entrance to the building after a woman who vomited in the lot said she had recently been to Africa."



"http://online.wsj.com/articles/parking-lot-outside-pentagon-closed-off-due-to-ebola-scare-1413561377

[rubicon]

There are no direct flights from West Africa to the US. FYI



Hi cologal: That does complicate it but they are aware of all flights destination and intermediate stops and so any stops in West Africa should be flagged.

It may however be too late because the government reluctance to act who knows where the next infected person/country will materialize. This may turn out to be as silent and hence as uncontrollable as AIDS/HIV was initially.

right now all the UN WHO and CDC are doing is whack a mole strategy

[TexaninVA]

[QUOTE=TexaninVA;953883]General Kelly is the 4-Star, chief of US Southern Command ... he recently said the following:

"The Pentagon’s top commander in South America has warned that if Ebola surfaces in Central America or the Caribbean, there will be a stampede of people heading north across the Rio Grande to the U.S. to escape the disease.

“If it breaks out, it’s literally, ‘Katie bar the door,’ and there will be mass migration into the United States,” Marine General John Kelly, chief of the U.S. Southern Command, said Tuesday. “They will run away from Ebola, or if they suspect they are infected, they will try to get to the United States for treatment.”

That is a very possible event. Since you like to pose questions to others - I would like to hear your solution that would prevent such a "mass migration" that would be feasible right now. We agree, of course, that a high fence could be put all along the southern border but that would take a long time to construct and still would be permible in many areas. What else? Thousands of National Guard on 24/7 duty with shoot to kill orders (since putting illegals in detention is not an option)?

Please reply with your solutions. (ie a request made by Sandtrap328)

Actually Sandtrap, you have done a nice job in describing the gist of what’s required so you didn’t really need to wait for my reply to share your thoughts. But, since you asked, here’s my response.

First of all, this is not a hard problem to solve in terms of identifying what is needed. The difficult part is mustering up the courage, political will, and leadership, to make the unpleasant choices. Remember, we are talking about what is needed to protect the US in the event General Kelly’s “Katie Bar the Door” scenario comes to play.

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=123359


Thus, as soon as solid evidence exists that Ebola has spread to Central America or Mexico, the very first thing that’s needed is for the President to make a nationally televised speech to the Congress and inform that world that, due to Ebola and other reasons, the US border is now closed. Legal immigration will be allowed (with appropriate screening, quarantine etc), but illegal entry of any type will be denied “using any means necessary, including deadly force.” The latter is the key phrase.

At that point, the US military will be deployed in force to protect the entire Southern border. Inevitably, someone will try to enter any way. That’s when warning shots will be used. If that doesn’t work, destroy the target. After several instances of this, illegal border incursions will largely stop, and have the beneficial effect of reducing further casualties caused by firearms. It may also be necessary to send troops on limited incursions into Mexico if needed to seek our armed intruders … eg drug cartels and smugglers as one example.

At the same time, and in a more strategic sense, we finally get serious about building the border wall. No more excuses. It can be done, and solutions developed as with any other large project if given the resources and requisite leadership.

Now, consider the alternate to NOT doing the above. You then have hundreds, or at some point potentially thousands, of Ebola infected illegals moving into the southern states and then throughout out the country. This will overwhelm our resources, and literally destroy the US economy in the process. Thus, should General Kelly’s scenario come to pass, closing the border by any means necessary becomes a survival issue … either protect the border and let Ebola burn itself out in Central America, and Africa or, let them all in and let it burn out in the US as well.

To put it bluntly, many of us and our families would then be destined to meet a most unpleasant fate … all because the border was left open for "noble" reasons that won’t matter much by then. Some may be comforted however in that the virus won't discriminate on race, creed, national origin or philosophical views on income inequality and social justice.

[xNYer]

I really get.
Suspend all thought, and trust what the gov says. Nothing bad is happening anywhere.

Never trust your government or elected officials. God Bless America. Is that the majority feeling here. Is that how we feel about our country?

[TexaninVA]

No, his education is in law. He graduated from Georgetown University and Harvard Law School and has held many political positions.

Ron Klain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Klain)

This is so disheartening to read, but at the same type enlightening.

It occurred to me … if I was a senior official, and I had a problem, what type of person would I appoint to solve it? Well, obviously it would depend on the nature of the problem I had, wouldn’t it?

For example, if I had a military problem, it would make sense to appoint a military leader to solve it.

If I had a business problem, I would find an expert business leader to solve it.

Not surprisingly, if I had a medical problem I would appoint a doctor or medical administrator to get rid of the problem.

But, on the other hand, if I appointed a political operative, what does that say about how I view the nature of the problem I have to solve?

[gomoho]

Excellent deduction TexaninVa

[janmcn]

This is so disheartening to read, but at the same type enlightening.

It occurred to me … if I was a senior official, and I had a problem, what type of person would I appoint to solve it? Well, obviously it would depend on the nature of the problem I had, wouldn’t it?

For example, if I had a military problem, it would make sense to appoint a military leader to solve it.

If I had a business problem, I would find an expert business leader to solve it.

Not surprisingly, if I had a medical problem I would appoint a doctor or medical administrator to get rid of the problem.

But, on the other hand, if I appointed a political operative, what does that say about how I view the nature of the problem I have to solve?



Who would you appoint if you wanted someone to coordinate all the government agencies involved? Who would you appoint if you wanted to cut through all of the government red-tape? A physician or a businessman would not be able to do this, but a political operative is a perfect choice.

BTW: if you want to tweet the president some of your ideas, his twitter handle is @barackobama (very easy to remember).

[sunnyatlast]

"Who would you appoint if you wanted to cut through all of the government red-tape?"

When has a White House appointee ever "cut through all the red tape" instead of make more of it?

[sunnyatlast]

I see that the new Tsar of Ebola was Chief of Staff to Vice Presidents Gore and Biden.

"When it comes to commentary about the office of vice president of the United States, no statement is more repeated than John Nance Garner's observation that the office "is not worth a bucket of warm spit."

That's what this ebola office will be, too.

John Nance Garner on the Vice Presidency - In Search of the Proverbial Bucket - Dolph Briscoe Center for American History (http://www.cah.utexas.edu/news/press_release.php?press=press_bucket)

[Sandtrap328]

When has a White House appointee ever "cut through all the red tape" instead of make more of it?

John Goss

[billethkid]

When has a White House appointee ever "cut through all the red tape" instead of make more of it?

Please enlighten me as to which WH appointee ever made ANYTHING happen.
Unless we know what the latest czar's mission we will never know what he was supposed to do or did. Accountability lacking.

Saying a politician can get more done than a business man can only be parroting or a politician talking!!

Ebola needs more than verbiage to get the job done....what ever that happens to be.

Did the other czars get their job done??

[graciegirl]

Who would you appoint if you wanted someone to coordinate all the government agencies involved? Who would you appoint if you wanted to cut through all of the government red-tape? A physician or a businessman would not be able to do this, but a political operative is a perfect choice.

BTW: if you want to tweet the president some of your ideas, his twitter handle is @barackobama (very easy to remember).


How about a member of the cabinet like the Surgeon General????

It is my belief that more than any other kind of smart person, a physician is needed now to coordinate all of the efforts on THIS ISSUE. Many physicians are in the top one percent of our population in intelligence and they are certainly as smart if not smarter than most lawyers, and many of them too, have attended fine schools like Georgetown and Harvard. It shows that even the POTUS no matter WHO he is CAN be lacking in some forms of knowledge and connections to all kinds of expertise.

I think that we are being literally thrown to the lions.

What we need now more than anything else is for someone in the White House to realize what clean and dirty mean in a medical setting and keep the dirty away from the clean or many of us are going to die.

[Sandtrap328]

"WASHINGTON—An Ebola scare has shut down a parking lot and entrance to the Pentagon.

The Defense Department said on Friday that it had cordoned off the parking lot outside the Pentagon and an entrance to the building after a woman who vomited in the lot said she had recently been to Africa."



"http://online.wsj.com/articles/parking-lot-outside-pentagon-closed-off-due-to-ebola-scare-1413561377

According to the Washington NBC affiliate, the scare was only a scare. The woman did get sick on a bus but not Ebola related.

[graciegirl]

How about a member of the cabinet like the Surgeon General????

It is my belief that more than any other kind of smart person, a physician is needed now to coordinate all of the efforts on THIS ISSUE. Many physicians are in the top one percent of our population in intelligence and they are certainly as smart if not smarter than most lawyers, and many of them too, have attended fine schools like Georgetown and Harvard. It shows that even the POTUS no matter WHO he is CAN be lacking in some forms of knowledge and connections to all kinds of expertise.

I think that we are being literally thrown to the lions.

What we need now more than anything else is for someone in the White House to realize what clean and dirty mean in a medical setting and keep the dirty away from the clean or many of us are going to die.


WHY does it seem that people who are left of center in their views seem to pooh pooh the risk here? Are they defending the party in office or WHAT????

[sunnyatlast]

WHY does it seem that people who are left of center in their views seem to pooh pooh the risk here? Are they defending the party in office or WHAT????

It's a matter of faith.

[CFrance]

WHY does it seem that people who are left of center in their views seem to pooh pooh the risk here? Are they defending the party in office or WHAT????
I don't think anyone left of center is pooh-poohing the risk of ebola. I think we are reacting to the right-of-center people who are ready to throttle anyone crossing the border or who have absolutely no faith in ANYONE in government to do ANYTHING right, or who think such simplistic measures of stopping air flights is going to do any good when people who are infected can easily find ways to enter the country.

And I'm surprised, frankly, that the mods are not screaming about all the political statements that have been going on.

But please don't make a blanket statement about left-of-center people not believing in the risk. I think you are missing the point of how we feel. Some of the comments on this thread are very strong about certain aspects.

[graciegirl]

[

Why did the last surgeon general step down?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/12/regina-benjamin-surgeon-general_n_3431270.html
I can't find her background, does anyone know?

Here is what the former surgeon general has to say about the Ebola crisis;
http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2014/10/16/former_surgeon_gener.html

Background of attorney general under George Bush;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonia_Novello

[sunnyatlast]

John Goss, Czar of Asian Carp in the Great Lakes

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/12/22/protecting-our-great-lakes-asian-carp

[JB in TV]

Interesting and informative article about Ebola protection:

I'm a Hazmat-Trained Hospital Worker: Here's What No One Is Telling You About Ebola | Abby Norman (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/abby-norman/im-a-hazmat-trained-hospi_b_5998486.html)

[handyman]

Not so scary

to me I like Stephen King

[TNLAKEPANDA]

Read all about our new Czar.... Totally NOT qualified. I don't think our leader gets it. Also heard a roomer that he is thinking of bringing infected people to our country for treatment.


White House Ebola Czar Was 'Key Player' In Solyndra Debacle | The Daily Caller (http://dailycaller.com/2014/10/17/white-house-ebola-czar-was-key-player-in-solyndra-scandal/)

[michaelkir]

1 CASE, the CDC could not even control one case. We all saw it coming for the last YEAR and they couldn't do it. They knew or should have known it was coming. What happens if there are 10 cases, 1,000 cases 10,000. How bad will it be.
CDC, do your job, please! For all those who are excusing the CDC, there is no excuse for not controlling just one case when we knew it was on the way.

[billethkid]

Let's just wait and see how long it takes for this new czar to get back to the American people with any meaningful information.

He reports to Rice.....remember the Benghazzi Rice who repeatedly professed a conjured up story about Benghazzi.....and she is going to let this new cazar present any rock the boat information to ANYBODY.

I think the folks in Washington could care less about logic and external optics or concerns of we the people.

I am sure Obama now feels he has addressed the ebola problem because he has taken action.....he appointed a czar.....oooppppsss....ANOTHER czar. Mission accomplished.

Does anybody recall anything all the other czars accomplished?

In Washington it seems to me that as long as an issued is discussed and a czar is appointed the given issue has been addressed. The track record easily supports this conclusion.

We the people are too short on memory and easy to fool!

[quirky3]

I don't think anyone left of center is pooh-poohing the risk of ebola. I think we are reacting to the right-of-center people who are ready to throttle anyone crossing the border or who have absolutely no faith in ANYONE in government to do ANYTHING right, or who think such simplistic measures of stopping air flights is going to do any good when people who are infected can easily find ways to enter the country.

And I'm surprised, frankly, that the mods are not screaming about all the political statements that have been going on.

But please don't make a blanket statement about left-of-center people not believing in the risk. I think you are missing the point of how we feel. Some of the comments on this thread are very strong about certain aspects.

Absolutely! I couldn't have said it better myself!:BigApplause:

[TexaninVA]

I don't think anyone left of center is pooh-poohing the risk of ebola. I think we are reacting to the right-of-center people who are ready to throttle anyone crossing the border or who have absolutely no faith in ANYONE in government to do ANYTHING right, or who think such simplistic measures of stopping air flights is going to do any good when people who are infected can easily find ways to enter the country.

And I'm surprised, frankly, that the mods are not screaming about all the political statements that have been going on.

But please don't make a blanket statement about left-of-center people not believing in the risk. I think you are missing the point of how we feel. Some of the comments on this thread are very strong about certain aspects.

Please explain your reasoning for saying “stopping air flights” (actually, preventing people with passports/visas from Ebola stricken countries from entering the US) is “simplistic.”

Rather than simplistic, I say it’s a “simple” solution per the KISS principle, and it will work. Numerous African countries, ironically, have already done that. It’s a hollow argument to say people will simply go elsewhere to get in. They still have to cross a border, and show a passport to get on a plane etc. Not saying it’s impossible to do, but logically it will obviously be harder, and thus the number of people gaining entry will most certainly go down—which is the objective. Anyway, what’s your prescription for a “non-simplistic” and presumably more enlightened approach?

With regards to “throttling anyone who crosses the border” please read my post on General Kelly’s “Katie Bar the Door Scenario” and reply to let us know what actions you would take to protect the US if your were in charge. I do not think you are pooh-pooing the Ebola risk, but we still don’t know what you would do to reduce the risk. Do you agree that stopping Ebola infected illegals from crossing the border is critical, and should be done by any means necessary, including the use of deadly force if required?

[TexaninVA]

Who would you appoint if you wanted someone to coordinate all the government agencies involved? Who would you appoint if you wanted to cut through all of the government red-tape? A physician or a businessman would not be able to do this, but a political operative is a perfect choice.

BTW: if you want to tweet the president some of your ideas, his twitter handle is @barackobama (very easy to remember).

First of all, I admire your loyal attempt to defend the indefensible.

Second of all, I can tell by your question (“…who would you appoint”) either you have never worked in Washington or have never been in charge of a very large organization …ie military, business, government etc.

To answer your question -- I would not appoint anyone! I would use the current organization for which, were I President, responsible for and make them produce results, not just soothing words. I would direct the senior cabinet officer official, in this case HHS, to own the problem, and further direct Dod and others in the USG to work in supporting roles to HHS. If they didn’t get results over time, I would fire them, and keep firing them, until I found someone who could solve it. That’s the way the system should work. However, please note if you appoint competent Cabinet officers in the first place, you actually don’t have to fire anyone because guess what … they can actually do what they were hired to do.

You should also be aware of other factors. In Washington, people with political backgrounds who are put in charge of a problem are not taken seriously unless they have two elements of organizational power … power to promote/demote, and budget power. Without that, people will nod, sometimes try to help the ‘czar’ but essentially say “it’s the czar’s problem.” Plus they all know what’s going on, and what kind of problem (ie political) the new czar is really supposed to solve. His true mission is not to solve the Ebola medical problem unfortunately.

There’s another way to quickly deduce that this appointment is essentially a means to divert the bad stream of recent PR surround Ebola. Mr. Klain will be on the job for six months or so (ie career people will thus ignore him) and he reports to two Staff Officers! This is crazy in its own right. So, not only does he not control budget or have any other power, he is not even a direct report to POTUS. Plus, he reports to two bosses, both White House homeland security adviser Lisa Monaco and National Security Adviser Susan Rice, which means neither one of them is really accountable for results either. Mr. Klain will also likely not be taken seriously by the DoD nor HHS NIH, CDC, etc. Everyone will be polite, attend meetings and seem to help of course, but in reality … but nothing much of substance will happen because of Mr. Klain.

Other than that, it was an inspired appointment.

Thanks too for the easy to remember twitter handle … I will be submitting a simple recommendation.

[TexaninVA]

It's a matter of faith.

I think there’s an element of truth in what you say. For some (ie not all) it is indeed a matter of secular faith even if they don’t recognize it as such. Thus, given that heresy is a sin in any religion, it’s understandable why some will reflexively defend the indefensible or, in some cases, defend what is plainly illogical (eg failure to ban entry temporarily for those from infected West African countries etc)

[sunnyatlast]

Let's just wait and see how long it takes for this new czar to get back to the American people with any meaningful information.

He reports to Rice.....remember the Benghazzi Rice who repeatedly professed a conjured up story about Benghazzi.....and she is going to let this new cazar present any rock the boat information to ANYBODY.

I think the folks in Washington could care less about logic and external optics or concerns of we the people.

I am sure Obama now feels he has addressed the ebola problem because he has taken action.....he appointed a czar.....oooppppsss....ANOTHER czar. Mission accomplished.

Does anybody recall anything all the other czars accomplished?

In Washington it seems to me that as long as an issued is discussed and a czar is appointed the given issue has been addressed. The track record easily supports this conclusion.

We the people are too short on memory and easy to fool!

The singular job of this "czar" (monarch or prince) is to rein in and clench an iron-clad grip on all the well-informed employees in all the vast federal agencies, who know the inside story and try to go public…..out of fear for their/our safety, and they can no longer live with the deception being fed us.

The czar is now in place to stop their leaking, and to extinguish any disloyalty to the party-agenda talking points….talking points in which this czar's boss, Susan Rice, has already shown her mastery and loyalty to the agenda.

Janmcn already identified what this choice is--a "a political operative", and explained above how "a political operative is the perfect choice" for that very purpose:

"Who would you appoint if you wanted someone to coordinate all the government agencies involved? Who would you appoint if you wanted to cut through all of the government red-tape? A physician or a businessman would not be able to do this, but a political operative is a perfect choice."

[janmcn]

First of all, I admire your loyal attempt to defend the indefensible.

Second of all, I can tell by your question (“…who would you appoint”) either you have never worked in Washington or have never been in charge of a very large organization …ie military, business, government etc.

To answer your question -- I would not appoint anyone! I would use the current organization for which, were I President, responsible for and make them produce results, not just soothing words. I would direct the senior cabinet officer official, in this case HHS, to own the problem, and further direct Dod and others in the USG to work in supporting roles to HHS. If they didn’t get results over time, I would fire them, and keep firing them, until I found someone who could solve it. That’s the way the system should work. However, please note if you appoint competent Cabinet officers in the first place, you actually don’t have to fire anyone because guess what … they can actually do what they were hired to do.

You should also be aware of other factors. In Washington, people with political backgrounds who are put in charge of a problem are not taken seriously unless they have two elements of organizational power … power to promote/demote, and budget power. Without that, people will nod, sometimes try to help the ‘czar’ but essentially say “it’s the czar’s problem.” Plus they all know what’s going on, and what kind of problem (ie political) the new czar is really supposed to solve. His true mission is not to solve the Ebola medical problem unfortunately.

There’s another way to quickly deduce that this appointment is essentially a means to divert the bad stream of recent PR surround Ebola. Mr. Klain will be on the job for six months or so (ie career people will thus ignore him) and he reports to two Staff Officers! This is crazy in its own right. So, not only does he not control budget or have any other power, he is not even a direct report to POTUS. Plus, he reports to two bosses, both White House homeland security adviser Lisa Monaco and National Security Adviser Susan Rice, which means neither one of them is really accountable for results either. Mr. Klain will also likely not be taken seriously by the DoD nor HHS NIH, CDC, etc. Everyone will be polite, attend meetings and seem to help of course, but in reality … but nothing much of substance will happen because of Mr. Klain.

Other than that, it was an inspired appointment.

Thanks too for the easy to remember twitter handle … I will be submitting a simple recommendation.


Since this is not a cabinet appointment, President Obama can appoint whoever he wants without senate confirmation (I think that is correct). The opposing party can critique all they like. That's the beauty of free speech, but the fact remains the president's appointee will stay on the job.

[Sandtrap328]

While I am extremely concerned about carriers of Ebola entering the USA, I cannot see the US military being ordered to shoot to kill people coming across our northern or southern borders illegally. The illegal entrants would be unarmed most likely and I doubt if most of our soldiers would actually shoot an unarmed person walking toward them with their hands in the air - even if ordered to shoot.

I think the southern border should be cordoned off with concertina wire ASAP and National Guard be posted 24/7 - but after that, I am at losses for ideas.

[cologal]

Stop the people. They need a visa to enter the U.S.

"According to the Washington Post, the number of visas issued to Liberians by the United States has spiked, with about 3,500 visitor visas granted to Liberians last year, and another 10,000 granted to people from Guinea and Sierra Leone during that same time period.

The Post also reported that Liberians also have a very high rate of "visa overstays,"the fifth highest after Cuba, Burundi, Eritrea and the Democratic Republic of Congo, according to immigration expert Jessica Vaughn with the Center for Immigration Studies. Vaughn has sharply criticized the Obama administration's immigration policies regarding Ebola, noting that Kenya and other African countries have closed their borders to any travelers from Ebola-afflicted areas."

DHS Started Expediting Visa Extensions from Ebola Countries in August (http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Texas/2014/10/17/DHS-Started-Expediting-Visa-Extensions-From-Ebola-Countries-in-August)

There has been another virus epidemic...thousands of people died before anything was done. Already Obama is being hammered when there have only been 3 people infected and only one death.

Care to guess how many died the last time before that President acted?

[cologal]

Hi cologal: That does complicate it but they are aware of all flights destination and intermediate stops and so any stops in West Africa should be flagged.

It may however be too late because the government reluctance to act who knows where the next infected person/country will materialize. This may turn out to be as silent and hence as uncontrollable as AIDS/HIV was initially.

right now all the UN WHO and CDC are doing is whack a mole strategy

Hey rubicon.... I don't think this outbreak will be as bad as the one you reference due the difficult transference. Many thousands of people died before anything was done not just 1. I do remember calls for gay people to be put in detention camps do to the fear levels.

They only thing to do would be to hold visitors at the point of entry for 21 days. Not calling for that just saying. But that is difficult as well because how can the define guidelines for detention?

[sunnyatlast]

There has been another virus epidemic...thousands of people died before anything was done. Already Obama is being hammered when there have only been 3 people infected and only one death.

Care to guess how many died the last time before that President acted?

Getting back to the question you posed and to which I replied,

Stop the people, not the flights. The people can't enter the U.S. without a visa.

Instead of limiting visas from Liberia and the other ebola afflicted nations, our government has increased these visas in the last two months, according to the WashPo article I linked above!

[cologal]

Getting back to the question you posed and to which I replied,

Stop the people, not the flights. The people can't enter the U.S. without a visa.

Instead of limiting visas from Liberia and the other ebola afflicted nations, our government has increased these visas in the last two months, according to the WashPo article I linked above!

Ok...Until they get to an US airport we are not in control. So the only way to make the virus doesn't spread would be to keep them in a controlled environment for at least 21 days. Someone with a Visa could come in contact with an Ebola patient, like Duncan did, within days of his flight.

Now care to guess how many died before anything was done the last time this happened?

[billethkid]

Getting back to the question you posed and to which I replied,

Stop the people, not the flights. The people can't enter the U.S. without a visa.

Instead of limiting visas from Liberia and the other ebola afflicted nations, our government has increased these visas in the last two months, according to the WashPo article I linked above!

As long as this or any other crises facing our contry is ONLY dealt with POLITICALLY there will be no advances made. Only wait and see after the fact, crisies mode which by it's very nature means playing catch up.

This administration ONLY acts POLITICALLY.......not logical and certainly not smart. Smart includes learning from past mistakes which they most certainly do not.

A better chioce would have been Senator Frisk...he is a sitting senator....he is an MD....he knows the medical community....which should be driving ANY political actions.

Next choice would be one of the 5 star generals who have had multiple combat experiences and directing large groups of people. Give him the objective and then keep the politicians the hell outta the way.

Remember political decisions are not good or right decisions THEY ARE POLITICAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rubicon]

Hey rubicon.... I don't think this outbreak will be as bad as the one you reference due the difficult transference. Many thousands of people died before anything was done not just 1. I do remember calls for gay people to be put in detention camps do to the fear levels.

They only thing to do would be to hold visitors at the point of entry for 21 days. Not calling for that just saying. But that is difficult as well because how can the define guidelines for detention?

Hi cologal: first to your post concerning the outbreak not being as bad...."From your lips to God's ears".

First one has to ascertain how Ebola began and the theory goes something like it came from a bat that eat a berry that dropped that modified berry on the ground that a chicken ate and that, that chicken was consumed by a human. The reason Ebola has spread so far is because initially it was mistaken for cholera . It is also spreading quickly because Africans are bribing medics to leave their dead so that they can have proper burials which include washing the bodies a number of times and kisses of goodbye from family members. It is also spreading quickly because these countries literally had no medical infrastructure and also many of the medical people had long migrated to other countries seeking higher pay.

The UN WHO and CDC are better at dealing with second hand smoke than Ebola in fact Dr Feidan worked for Mayor Bloomberg and was responsible for the super sized soft drink nonsense in New York.

If it is true and I am not certain of it , it has been reported on a political blog that Obama has ordered that some/many Ebola patient from West Africa be brought here and treated in America. If this is true its about as dumb as one can get.

If you posed the travel ban question to a 7 year old he would say why would you allow such a sick person in my house. close the door

[cologal]

Hi cologal: first to your post concerning the outbreak not being as bad...."From your lips to God's ears".

First one has to ascertain how Ebola began and the theory goes something like it came from a bat that eat a beery that dropped that modified berry on the ground that a chicken ate and that, that chicken was consumed by a human. The reason Ebola has spread so far is because initially it was mistaken for cholera . It is also spreading quickly because Africans are bribing medics to leave their dead so that they can have proper burials which include washing the bodies a number of times and kisses of goodbye from family members. It is also spreading quickly because these countries literally had no medical infrastructure and also many of the medical people had long migrated to other countries seeking higher pay.

The UN WHO and CDC are better at dealing with second hand smoke than Ebola in fact Dr Feidan worked for Mayor Bloomberg and was responsible for the super sized soft drink nonsense in New York.

If it is true and I am not certain of it , it has been reported on a political blog that Obama has ordered that some/many Ebola patient from West Africa be brought here and treated in America. If this is true its about as dumb as one can get.

If you posed the travel ban question to a 7 year old he would say why would you allow such a sick person in my house. close the door

I really hope that this outbreak never reaches the level of that outbreak. Unfortunately we are NOT in control of the door.... We used to have US Public Health Service Hospitals with quarantine stations. I know this because I worked at one on Staten Island. The bad news they were all closed...by the same President who ignored that last virus.

I hope also that your blog information is incorrect....according to what I have heard the US Hospitals are only equipped to handle 9 patients, I think there are 5,000 patients in West Africa now.

I forgot.... at least 2 patients have already been transported to the US for treatment and all have so far survived. I think one doctor and a reporter.

[cologal]

I think we all should remember HOW DIFFICULT it is to get Ebola. You have to come into direct contact with the body fluid, blood, vomit or XXXX of someone with active Ebola. So with the current case 2 hospital workers in very close contact with the patient and his fluids but his family members, with whom he was staying, have not gotten the virus......

[janmcn]

I really hope that this outbreak never reaches the level of that outbreak. Unfortunately we are NOT in control of the door.... We used to have US Public Health Service Hospitals with quarantine stations. I know this because I worked at one on Staten Island. The bad news they were all closed...by the same President who ignored that last virus.

I hope also that your blog information is incorrect....according to what I have heard the US Hospitals are only equipped to handle 9 patients, I think there are 5,000 patients in West Africa now.

I forgot.... at least 2 patients have already been transported to the US for treatment and all have so far survived. I think one doctor and a reporter.

You are correct, only nine beds for Ebola patients in the entire country and four of them are occupied at this time. Three doctors have been treated and seem to be doing fine. The TV reporter is still being treated in Nebraska along with the two nurses, one at Emory Hospital and one at the NIH. No idea who the fourth patient is.

Of course, there could be other Ebola patients in local hospitals who haven't been diagnosed yet.

[cologal]

You are correct, only nine beds for Ebola patients in the entire country and four of them are occupied at this time. Three doctors have been treated and seem to be doing fine. The TV reporter is still being treated in Nebraska along with the two nurses, one at Emory Hospital and one at the NIH. No idea who the fourth patient is.

Of course, there could be other Ebola patients in local hospitals who haven't been diagnosed yet.

There are NO other Ebola patients in local hospitals and not one of Patient Zero's family have gotten sick.

[Schaumburger]

There are NO other Ebola patients in local hospitals and not one of Patient Zero's family have gotten sick.

According to NBC News web site: "Forty-eight people who had contact with Thomas Eric Duncan in Dallas, including his fiancée, Louise Troh, are being monitored for symptoms themselves. Most of them are expected to pass through a 21-day monitoring period by Sunday."

[Villages PL]

Everyone has to die sooner or later from something, so this will be the something for some people. There's no nice way to die unless you live to 112 and your heart stops during the night. Did you ever see someone die from dementia, cancer or Parkinson's etc? It's not pretty.

[dbussone]

It's a matter of faith.


Then it's poorly placed.

[dbussone]

At this point faith in the WH may be politically correct and that's it. ::oxymoron::

[cologal]

At this point no one has answered the question How many people died before any action during the last viral outbreak?

So I will, 20,849 people died.... the outbreak AIDS and the President Reagan.

[dbussone]

As long as this or any other crises facing our contry is ONLY dealt with POLITICALLY there will be no advances made. Only wait and see after the fact, crisies mode which by it's very nature means playing catch up.



This administration ONLY acts POLITICALLY.......not logical and certainly not smart. Smart includes learning from past mistakes which they most certainly do not.



A better chioce would have been Senator Frisk...he is a sitting senator....he is an MD....he knows the medical community....which should be driving ANY political actions.



Next choice would be one of the 5 star generals who have had multiple combat experiences and directing large groups of people. Give him the objective and then keep the politicians the hell outta the way.



Remember political decisions are not good or right decisions THEY ARE POLITICAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Did you mean former Senator Bill Frist?

[Cisco Kid]

I believe HIV is the world’s leading infectious killer is it not ?

[TexaninVA]

Everyone has to die sooner or later from something, so this will be the something for some people. There's no nice way to die unless you live to 112 and your heart stops during the night. Did you ever see someone die from dementia, cancer or Parkinson's etc? It's not pretty.

I have to say, while I understand your point, I really don't get why you bothered making it within the context of the Ebola discussion

What would you recommend for our society regarding Ebola... rely totally on fate? Because, after all, the virus will burn itself out eventually. The only question is how many will die as a result and how long it will take ... although I guess we could add "where" it will burn out as well. Hopefully not in America on any large scale.

[BarryRX]

45492

[janmcn]

AOL.com Article - More than 100 monitored for Ebola symptoms in Ohio (http://www.aol.com/article/2014/10/18/more-than-100-monitored-for-ebola-symptoms-in-ohio/20980422/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D548039)


More than 100 Ohioans are being monitored for Ebola symptoms after the infected nurse visited the state last week-end. This is in addition to the 75 health-care workers being monitored in Dallas, plus the 48 originally being watched (some of which are now being cleared).

[TexaninVA]

Since this is not a cabinet appointment, President Obama can appoint whoever he wants without senate confirmation (I think that is correct). The opposing party can critique all they like. That's the beauty of free speech, but the fact remains the president's appointee will stay on the job.

Ok, you clearly did not understand my post. Go back and reread it please before reading what follows …

We already have a Cabinet official, the Secretary of Health and Human Services. You’ll note the word ‘health’ is part of her title. She is paid approximately $200,000 per year, before executive bonuses which means she can make more. She manages about 77,000 employees and her total budget is approximately $1 Trillion (note: trillion, not billion) per year. While this includes Medicare and related transfer payments, the point is … she has LOTS of budget clout and authority. She also appears to be a very competent person with an impressive resume, including Harvard Law and was a Rhodes Scholar.

Biography: HHS Secretary | HHS.gov (http://www.hhs.gov/secretary/about/biography/index.html)


She needs to take the lead on Ebola, not a political operative (per your description) buried two levels down in the White House Staff. And yes, senate confirmation is not required. The real question is why have we not even seen or heard from Secretary Burwell? If she needs help, give it to her. But, if she can’t do the job, fire her, and find someone who can. Someone needs to be accountable for results, and that person is Secretary Burwell. Does that not make sense to you?

Besides, the classic DC game is to appoint a “czar” which takes the heat off the senior leaders and make many credulous members of the public think that “ok, they’re finally doing something.” It’s pretty sad to watch actually but it seems to work every time.

Now, you made a comment about “party.” I think we are well past “party” affiliation. Whether we like it or not, we are all absolutely in this together which is why we need common sense solutions which actually work. The problem is obviously one of public health and safety – not politics! Talk alone is cheap, especially when delivered by political operatives. The virus is equal opportunity as it will infect and kill anyone regardless of party, race, creed, or national origin.

Free speech is beautiful indeed and abundant, and I thank the Founders for providing us with that gift. Competence and leadership however, is currently in critically short supply.

[rubicon]

It is my understanding that the pivotal issue is whether the Ebola virus could mutate to a point that it could survive on a dry surface. Presently it needs a host and it has plenty called human beings. so if the airborne droplet, etc falls on a surface and dries up it is essentially at the end of the road.

Given that basic premise it is obvious that medical experts move quickly and intellectually to isolate the Ebola virus down to the last droplet

With the spanish flu pandemic, polio, HIV/AIDS and SARS and other people seem to have more confidence in their government. This is not the case today

[TexaninVA]

I really hope that this outbreak never reaches the level of that outbreak. Unfortunately we are NOT in control of the door.... We used to have US Public Health Service Hospitals with quarantine stations. I know this because I worked at one on Staten Island. The bad news they were all closed...by the same President who ignored that last virus.

I hope also that your blog information is incorrect....according to what I have heard the US Hospitals are only equipped to handle 9 patients, I think there are 5,000 patients in West Africa now.

I forgot.... at least 2 patients have already been transported to the US for treatment and all have so far survived. I think one doctor and a reporter.

CDC is reportedly monitoring about 700 people as a result of the 2nd nurse’s travel to Cleveland. As I think about it, that number is likely low because it does not include people she may have passed by in the airport (sneeze?) and so forth. As I understand it, these 700 people are not quarantined but simply told to monitor while 21 days pass. But, they can interact with people. Should one of the 700 come down with Ebola, then presumably another network of many people would have to be tracked down and added to the list.

Thus, if we have say 10 infected people fly in from West Africa over the next month or so, and who do not show symptoms at the airport and thus let into the US (under current policy), I guess that means maybe 7,000 more people to monitor? Or maybe just 5,000? No one knows, except to say it would be a big number.

Thus, with only a few cases, the number of people needing to be monitored goes exponential and quickly outstrips our ability to do it. That’s why it needs to be prevented by restricting entry, not reacted to after a case is diagnosed.

[billethkid]

I just read where Obama is Considering allowing infected non Americans from other parts of the world to come to the USA for treatment.
I find this to be a stretch or a mis-understanding.
I find it very difficult to understand that even Obama would not do something so very very stupid........right!

[rubicon]

By the way the more government and the medical community remind me to stay calm the more concerned I get. I mean they promised Ebola would never reach America

[Sandtrap328]

I was just watching two different spectrum news shows about Ebola. Both had experts (medical doctors) saying that direct contact with bodily fluids is the only way to catch Ebola.

Both networks stated that Influenza is far more dangerous here. Both networks stated everyone should get their flu shot immediately.

I had mine about 4 weeks ago.

Nothing political here at all. Get your flu shot, take normal precautions, and stay happy and healthy!

[gomoho]

I was just watching two different spectrum news shows about Ebola. Both had experts (medical doctors) saying that direct contact with bodily fluids is the only way to catch Ebola.

Both networks stated that Influenza is far more dangerous here. Both networks stated everyone should get their flu shot immediately.

I had mine about 4 weeks ago.

Nothing political here at all. Get your flu shot, take normal precautions, and stay happy and healthy!


The difference between ebola and the flu is the fact that the flu virus is already here in our country. Why we would invite ebola to call the USA home as well? Restrict travel and keep the disease out of our country - we have enough problems to deal with.

[janmcn]

I just read where Obama is Considering allowing infected non Americans from other parts of the world to come to the USA for treatment.
I find this to be a stretch or a mis-understanding.
I find it very difficult to understand that even Obama would not do something so very very stupid........right!

This is breaking news. Could you please post a link so we can all read about it?


BTW: regarding a previous post, Senator Bill Frist retired in 2009.

[Sandtrap328]

The difference between ebola and the flu is the fact that the flu virus is already here in our country. Why we would invite ebola to call the USA home as well? Restrict travel and keep the disease out of our country - we have enough problems to deal with.



Of course, travel restriction is probably the best idea. Sealing off the southern border is a great idea. Keep Ebola out as much as possible.

However, take normal precautions about crowds, handshaking, kissing, hand sanitizer - and your flu shot.

You have a much better chance of contracting influenza than ebola and influenza can be deadly.

[sunnyatlast]

Of course, travel restriction is probably the best idea. Sealing off the southern border is a great idea. Keep Ebola out as much as possible.

However, take normal precautions about crowds, handshaking, kissing, hand sanitizer - and your flu shot.

You have a much better chance of contracting influenza than ebola and influenza can be deadly.

I'm not too worried about myself or my family getting ebola. I worry more for the nation's infrastructure if ebola starts decimating all our nation's best medical and public safety forces. The people needed most to stop the disease and to treat the suffering patients are the first to get exposed, and they are in hospitals with air systems that affect thousands of patients already in the hospitals and are there because they are sick and weak and many have lowered immune systems.

There was no reason why Duncan HAD to be allowed to come here. He's not a citizen and I find it highly suspect that he was working reliably in a decent job, and he suddenly quit without notice on September 4. He then came to the U.S. to meet up with his "estranged" girlfriend. I think he was coming here to seek medical treatment for ebola, or to marry the woman to get legal immigration status, or both.

And as for his relatives in TX not having ebola, maybe he knew he had the disease and made sure nobody got close to him, staying in other livlng quarters, etc.

[cologal]

CDC is reportedly monitoring about 700 people as a result of the 2nd nurse’s travel to Cleveland. As I think about it, that number is likely low because it does not include people she may have passed by in the airport (sneeze?) and so forth. As I understand it, these 700 people are not quarantined but simply told to monitor while 21 days pass. But, they can interact with people. Should one of the 700 come down with Ebola, then presumably another network of many people would have to be tracked down and added to the list.

Thus, if we have say 10 infected people fly in from West Africa over the next month or so, and who do not show symptoms at the airport and thus let into the US (under current policy), I guess that means maybe 7,000 more people to monitor? Or maybe just 5,000? No one knows, except to say it would be a big number.

Thus, with only a few cases, the number of people needing to be monitored goes exponential and quickly outstrips our ability to do it. That’s why it needs to be prevented by restricting entry, not reacted to after a case is diagnosed.

You are misinformed....Ebola is NOT a cold. It is difficult to get.

[cologal]

I just read where Obama is Considering allowing infected non Americans from other parts of the world to come to the USA for treatment.
I find this to be a stretch or a mis-understanding.
I find it very difficult to understand that even Obama would not do something so very very stupid........right!

We sent troops to West Africa to build clinics......

So far only 2-3 people have been transferred back to the US for treatment. I believe they were either US citizens or healthcare workers.

[Rags123]

I'm not too worried about myself or my family getting ebola. I worry more for the nation's infrastructure if ebola starts decimating all our nation's best medical and public safety forces. The people needed most to stop the disease and to treat the suffering patients are the first to get exposed, and they are in hospitals with air systems that affect thousands of patients already in the hospitals and are there because they are sick and weak and many have lowered immune systems.

There was no reason why Duncan HAD to be allowed to come here. He's not a citizen and I find it highly suspect that he was working reliably in a decent job, and he suddenly quit without notice on September 4. He then came to the U.S. to meet up with his "estranged" girlfriend. I think he was coming here to seek medical treatment for ebola, or to marry the woman to get legal immigration status, or both.

And as for his relatives in TX not having ebola, maybe he knew he had the disease and made sure nobody got close to him, staying in other livlng quarters, etc.

I concur. I do not think most are worried at this point about personally contracting Ebola.

What bothers me, and I have to try to make this non political and explain my view is that when you are elected President of the USA, politics should be out the window totally. We can all criticize the President and mostly it is not him but his staff. I say that because what I am reading...there has been one post about the Republicans blocking the surgeon general and that is patently a VERY BIG untruth. Other than that, most are just a bit concerned about how things are going and in my opinion, justified. I do not think anyone other than the one post attempted any politics, but I can be corrected.

Back in September, a number of reports were isssued which pretty much predicted this event or events in the USA....

"The outbreak of Ebola in West Africa has public health officials very alarmed. It is the world's largest and deadliest outbreak yet, and has infected about 3,600 people and killed at least 1,841 in three countries, according to the World Health Organization's tally. But there's a good chance the virus will spread outside of Guinea, Sierra Leone, and Liberia.

How good a chance? A study this week puts the odds that Ebola will arrive in the U.S. in late September as high as 18 percent. The study, published in PLOS Currents: Outbreaks, analyzed patterns of daily flights from the infected countries, keeping in mind how hard it will be to keep an infected person from boarding commercial airliners:"

This is from organizations who do this for a living.

Study finds 18 percent chance Ebola will arrive in the U.S. this month - The Week (http://theweek.com/speedreads/index/267603/speedreads-study-finds-18-percent-chance-ebola-will-arrive-in-the-us-this-month)

For those who like to read this stuff, here is the actual report with graphs etc.

Assessing the International Spreading Risk Associated with the 2014 West African Ebola Outbreak – PLOS Currents Outbreaks (http://currents.plos.org/outbreaks/article/assessing-the-international-spreading-risk-associated-with-the-2014-west-african-ebola-outbreak/)

The analyisis which was available to world leaders before its early September publication said that there was a 25% chance of Ebola coming to the USA in 3 to 6 weeks. Amazingly, it was right on target.

I know we "only" have two cases but we were told the probability of America”s Ebola vulnerability was extremely low.

it is only two cases, yes....but those who feel that people are overreacting should step back.....a month ago, if you said EBOLA would be on our shores in a matter of weeks, you would have drawn snickers.

Let us hope this new Czar shows fortitude and rises about the political fray. Let us hope that information as pointed out above that was not shared, will be shared.

I have read posts about only 9 beds or something available...that concerns me. I hear we are still issuing passports...that concerns me. I assume everyone knows that African countries are "shutting down their borders" to the most contagious of countries.

It may be hard to catch, as pointed out.....anyone who has had small children know how unsanitary they can be....I just imagine how fast in one single school day it would spread between children and their families if the worst happened.

Be wise and open Mr Czar

[TexaninVA]

You are misinformed....Ebola is NOT a cold. It is difficult to get.

No, I don't think I'm misinformed. If you have been following this thread at all, the current thinking is transmission is via body fluid contact and indeed relatively hard to contract. The issue of airborne spread is tbd ... no one knows for sure, and that's the wild card. I note that other strains of Ebola (eg Ebola Zaire) can indeed be spread via the air.

The point of the earlier post was to simply point out the mathematics of what's required to monitor people who've been exposed. Never said they would get it, but if the CDC thinks they should be monitored, there is some level of risk obviously. The takeaway for you to focus on is the exponential growth in numbers needed to monitor.

Do you dispute the math as cited in my post? If so, please elaborate.

[simpkinp]

I have to admit I am concerned. I liketotravel and have two trips planned, one a cruise. I can't imagine what it would be like comfined to a ship for weeks. Scary

[cologal]

No, I don't think I'm misinformed. If you have been following this thread at all, the current thinking is transmission is via body fluid contact and indeed relatively hard to contract. The issue of airborne spread is tbd ... no one knows for sure, and that's the wild card. I note that other strains of Ebola (eg Ebola Zaire) can indeed be spread via the air.

The point of the earlier post was to simply point out the mathematics of what's required to monitor people who've been exposed. Never said they would get it, but if the CDC thinks they should be monitored, there is some level of risk obviously. The takeaway for you to focus on is the exponential growth in numbers needed to monitor.

Do you dispute the math as cited in my post? If so, please elaborate.

It is very difficult to get... And yet we have people calling in saying they have been exposed to an Ebola pilot. There is to much hysteria going on. None of his family members have taken ill. The CDC is doing everything to stop the spread of this disease in the US.

[TexaninVA]

It is very difficult to get... And yet we have people calling in saying they have been exposed to an Ebola pilot. There is to much hysteria going on. None of his family members have taken ill. The CDC is doing everything to stop the spread of this disease in the US.

You're either still missing what I said or not responding to it ... the whole point relates to the exponential nature of exposure and the impact to monitoring resources. I'm not talking about the likelihood of contracting it, although as I said, per the CDC there is a some level of risk even if low. That's the whole point of monitoring, isn't it?

[cologal]

You're either still missing what I said or not responding to it ... the whole point relates to the exponential nature of exposure and the impact to monitoring resources. I'm not talking about the likelihood of contracting it, although as I said, per the CDC there is a some level of risk even if low. That's the whole point of monitoring, isn't it?

I do get your point but I think the CDC is monitoring a lot of people. For example the Lab Tech on a cruise with no symptoms. The cruise line has already turned around and started cleaning the ship but this person has no symptoms so why?

People are calling for a travel ban but there are no direct flights...if we stop all travelers at the airport we have no facilities in which to keep them for 21 days. All the quarantine stations were shutdown long ago.

Tis a problem....

[dbussone]

Ok. We can all relax now! Just got an email from the WH explaining what I need to know about Enola:
An Ebola update from President Obama

Today, President Obama spoke to the nation about Ebola -- how the Administration is responding, and what you should know.

The Ebola virus is a public health and national security priority, and the President has directed the Administration to continue to take aggressive measures at every level of government.

President Obama reiterated that, while Ebola is a serious disease, Americans need to understand the facts and be guided by the science: Ebola is not easily transmitted. And we know how to fight it.

[gomoho]

Ok. We can all relax now! Just got an email from the WH explaining what I need to know about Enola:
An Ebola update from President Obama

Today, President Obama spoke to the nation about Ebola -- how the Administration is responding, and what you should know.

The Ebola virus is a public health and national security priority, and the President has directed the Administration to continue to take aggressive measures at every level of government.

President Obama reiterated that, while Ebola is a serious disease, Americans need to understand the facts and be guided by the science: Ebola is not easily transmitted. And we know how to fight it.


Well now I guess we can believe that and not worry about it anymore - the government has it under control. God help us.

[billethkid]

Well now I guess we can believe that and not worry about it anymore - the government has it under control. God help us.

Yup we have been talked out of imminent danger once again!!!

[Barefoot]

Everyone has to die sooner or later from something, so this will be the something for some people. There's no nice way to die unless you live to 112 and your heart stops during the night. Did you ever see someone die from dementia, cancer or Parkinson's etc? It's not pretty.

I have to say, while I understand your point, I really don't get why you bothered making it within the context of the Ebola discussion.

VPL, could you please clarify? I don't understand your point.
Is it that Ebola is an easier way to die than from a debilitating disease?

[twinklesweep]

An intersting and controlled response by Shep Smith regarding the Ebola situation: Non political also.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2KBfynW09I

__________________________________________________ ______

... by this completely sensible response to what has been the media coverage of ebola. And as pointed out by this poster, it is non-political, as it should be; this is a public health issue and most assuredly not a political one (though I recognize there are those whose lives are consumed by politics and feel compelled to make everything political). This commentator may be political with regard to other issues, but he certainly isn't with this particular report.

How awful it is that fear-mongering is alive and well when it comes to selling newspapers or increasing viewership.... And it is stunning how many people buy into it! This is true not just for this ebola issue but for many others that are used to create "news."

Yes, get your flu shot!!!

[Sandtrap328]

The video clip of Shep Smith was awesome! He said it so well.

Just imagine, 52,000 Americans die from influenza every year! All you have to do is to get a flu shot and you will have little chance of being one of those 52,000.

Ebola is a concern but it is not spreading into the general population of America.

Shep said it is NOT a political issue even though both parties will try and blame each other. Fair and Balanced is a good logo for this video.

[tcxr750]

And don't forget that 90,000 die each year from Healthcare Acquired Infections!
In the U.S. last week the score was Ebola-1, Healthcare System-1730.
Number of cruise ships turned away because of Ebola-1
Number of cruise ships turned away because of HAI-0

[JB in TV]

Perhaps I have missed it being discussed here or in the press, but is Ebola transferable by mosquito? Person with active symptom-showing Ebola is bitten, that mosquito bites some one else. Is that second person then likely to get Ebola?

[sunnyatlast]

And don't forget that 90,000 die each year from Healthcare Acquired Infections!
In the U.S. last week the score was Ebola-1, Healthcare System-1730.
Number of cruise ships turned away because of Ebola-1
Number of cruise ships turned away because of HAI-0

This has little usefulness and trivializes the plight of nurses Nina Pham and Amber Vinson, who are suffering and could still die from the "Healthcare Acquired Infection" THEY have……called Ebola.

In fact the whole staff and whole patient populations at Texas Presbyterian, Emory, and Bethesda are focused on not getting a "Healthcare Acquired Infection" called Ebola…which they could spread to all their family members while they're dying an agonizing death!!

[TexaninVA]

And don't forget that 90,000 die each year from Healthcare Acquired Infections!
In the U.S. last week the score was Ebola-1, Healthcare System-1730.
Number of cruise ships turned away because of Ebola-1
Number of cruise ships turned away because of HAI-0

The content of this reply entirely misses the point of what this thread is about ... not what has happened so much, but what could potentially happen. The notion then is to discuss should be done to prevent a significant outbreak.

Perhaps your intent is to make people feel better, and if so, thanks for doing that.

[twinklesweep]

I am away from TV for extended periods working 24/7 and rarely have the chance to connect to TOTV. I am now FINALLY here for a short rest and had the chance to read through this very revealing and today very relevant thread. I am quoting many posters, though I have deleted what I perceived as political comments that are inappropriate not only on TOTV but also concerning this public health issue.


... Besides, the classic DC game is to appoint a “czar” which takes the heat off the senior leaders and make many credulous members of the public think that “ok, they’re finally doing something.” It’s pretty sad to watch actually but it seems to work every time.

... Based on past performance of czars I remain cynical and suspect.

... Did the other czars get their job done??

Though there were appointees by presidents to posts without necessity of Senate confirmation, the first "czar" called by that revealing name was Carlton Turner, the "drug czar," appointed by President Reagan. Since then there have been many such appointees, with President George W. Bush topping the number at 49, followed by President Obama at 44. Yes, it would be an interesting research project (perhaps some doctoral candidate's thesis) to study the effectiveness of this position.


... It is my belief that more than any other kind of smart person, a physician is needed now to coordinate all of the efforts on THIS ISSUE. Many physicians are in the top one percent of our population in intelligence and they are certainly as smart if not smarter than most lawyers, and many of them too, have attended fine schools like Georgetown and Harvard....

... But what I think we need is a person who knows medicine and knows how this disease is spread and has run a large medical facility like Walter Reed. Georgetown and Harvard are quite impressive, but what we don't need is another danged lawyer-politician who isn't quite clear where his fibula is.

I respectfully disagree in that the solution will not be based solely on "intelligence" but rather in the ability to manipulate and control. Personally I am suspicious of doctors who become politicians. I consider service as a physician to be one of the highest and most respected; who is more associated with healing than a doctor? Politics? Well, let's not get into that, though we can keep in mind the old saw: "Pro is to Progress as Con is to Congress"!

Seriously, doctors' most important role is NOT as administrators, coordinators, managers, even dictators. The most recent CV I'm able to find online of the CEO of our Villages Regional Hospital was Timothy Hawkins, who served in this capacity (more specifically "CEO Villages Regional Hospital, Executive VP and Chief Operating Officer, Central Florida Health Alliance") until 2012, whose educational qualification for this position was an MBA degree (that is, business administration) and NOT a medical degree. His job was to operate a program, not do patient care. No doubt, he utilized the services and relied on the expertise of doctors to perform his job, just as the newly appointed "ebola czar" will likely do. But the job involves far more than treating patients!


Ron Klain's job will be as manager of all the government agencies involved in the Ebola virus outbreak. No one has suggested that he would be treating infected patientsl

... Janmcn already identified what this choice is--a "a political operative", and explained above how "a political operative is the perfect choice" for that very purpose:

"Who would you appoint if you wanted someone to coordinate all the government agencies involved? Who would you appoint if you wanted to cut through all of the government red-tape? A physician or a businessman would not be able to do this, but a political operative is a perfect choice."

... A better chioce would have been Senator Frisk...he is a sitting senator....he is an MD....he knows the medical community....which should be driving ANY political actions....

Yes, I agree; a "political operative" is an appropriate choice, much more so than a physician, though of course it has to be the right political operative. Since the person occupying this post primarily has to deal with a multitude of governmental agencies, not simply those concerned specifically with the medical sphere (e.g., CDC, NIH, and so forth), based on her or his experience cutting across agencies and, if needs be, juggling and even forcing cooperation is something a political operative CAN do, whereas this would presumably never have been the bulk of the career experience of a doctor.

If the last poster above is referring to Senator Bill Frist (not "Frisk"), he is not a "sitting senator," having left office in 2007. While it certainly was his right to choose what to do with his life, it seemed to me at the time he ran for and was elected to office that his departure from medicine was tragic. Our country certainly needs cardiothoracic surgeons more than more politicians....


... People are calling for a travel ban but there are no direct flights...if we stop all travelers at the airport we have no facilities in which to keep them for 21 days. All the quarantine stations were shutdown long ago....

I keenly remember in the 1980s when these quarantine stations were closed down, as were many chronic care mental health hospitals, with patients turned loose and who frequently became homeless and problems in other ways. Though I didn't live through the influenza pandemic of 1917-1918 during which millions died, I knew of family members and parents and grandparents of friends who did, some of whom died. I knew it was bound to happen again (and this is not to say necessarily that it will be ebola) and was flabbergasted at the shortsightedness of doing this. Now there is the possibility of the chickens coming home to roost based on the stupidity of the shutdown of these quarantine stations....


There has been another virus epidemic ... thousands of people died before anything was done. Already Obama is being hammered when there have only been 3 people infected and only one death. Care to guess how many died the last time before that President acted?

I had been working my way through this long thread, waiting to see if anyone had the courage to bring up the AIDS epidemic of the 1980s, during which time the leader of the Western world treated this terrible disease as a moral issue rather than as, well, the terrible disease it was--and still is. And yes, thousands and thousands died, including much of a generation of creative and artistic people. It was a tragedy AND a travesty! And though I cannot remember who or what year, a speaker at a convention subsequent to the 1980s who was stricken with AIDS spoke passionately about the need to recognize this dreaded disease for what it was. Sad to say, but again the chickens coming home to roost....

And, sorry to say, I'm not a doctor, I'm not a political operative, I'm not even a businessperson, and concerned as I am, no, I have no solutions to offer.

[sunnyatlast]

I had been working my way through this long thread, waiting to see if anyone had the courage to bring up the AIDS epidemic of the 1980s, during which time the leader of the Western world treated this terrible disease as a moral issue rather than as, well, the terrible disease it was--and still is. And yes, thousands and thousands died, including much of a generation of creative and artistic people. It was a tragedy AND a travesty! And though I cannot remember who or what year, a speaker at a convention subsequent to the 1980s who was stricken with AIDS spoke passionately about the need to recognize this dreaded disease for what it was. Sad to say, but again the chickens coming home to roost....


This CDC Fact Sheet on HIV-AIDS gives a clear picture of the incidence and risk groups affected.

CDC ? HIV in the United States ? Statistics Overview ? Statistics Center ? HIV/AIDS (http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/statistics/basics/ataglance.html)

[Jebstuart]

Perhaps reading this article will be helpful

Ebola: How to stop the disease (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/ebola-how-to-stop-the-disease-dead-in-its-tracks/article21159394/)

In the meantime, practice good hand washing. Support efforts to train medical and first responders on hazmat gear. Support sending education and supplies to the ebola zone. Food support, body bags, supportive medical equipment. Panic, politics, spreading fear and rumors and being crazy will help no one.

[cologal]

Perhaps I have missed it being discussed here or in the press, but is Ebola transferable by mosquito? Person with active symptom-showing Ebola is bitten, that mosquito bites some one else. Is that second person then likely to get Ebola?

The answer is No!

[graciegirl]

I am away from TV for extended periods working 24/7 and rarely have the chance to connect to TOTV. I am now FINALLY here for a short rest and had the chance to read through this very revealing and today very relevant thread. I am quoting many posters, though I have deleted what I perceived as political comments that are inappropriate not only on TOTV but also concerning this public health issue.








Though there were appointees by presidents to posts without necessity of Senate confirmation, the first "czar" called by that revealing name was Carlton Turner, the "drug czar," appointed by President Reagan. Since then there have been many such appointees, with President George W. Bush topping the number at 49, followed by President Obama at 44. Yes, it would be an interesting research project (perhaps some doctoral candidate's thesis) to study the effectiveness of this position.






I respectfully disagree in that the solution will not be based solely on "intelligence" but rather in the ability to manipulate and control. Personally I am suspicious of doctors who become politicians. I consider service as a physician to be one of the highest and most respected; who is more associated with healing than a doctor? Politics? Well, let's not get into that, though we can keep in mind the old saw: "Pro is to Progress as Con is to Congress"!

Seriously, doctors' most important role is NOT as administrators, coordinators, managers, even dictators. The most recent CV I'm able to find online of the CEO of our Villages Regional Hospital was Timothy Hawkins, who served in this capacity (more specifically "CEO Villages Regional Hospital, Executive VP and Chief Operating Officer, Central Florida Health Alliance") until 2012, whose educational qualification for this position was an MBA degree (that is, business administration) and NOT a medical degree. His job was to operate a program, not do patient care. No doubt, he utilized the services and relied on the expertise of doctors to perform his job, just as the newly appointed "ebola czar" will likely do. But the job involves far more than treating patients!








Yes, I agree; a "political operative" is an appropriate choice, much more so than a physician, though of course it has to be the right political operative. Since the person occupying this post primarily has to deal with a multitude of governmental agencies, not simply those concerned specifically with the medical sphere (e.g., CDC, NIH, and so forth), based on her or his experience cutting across agencies and, if needs be, juggling and even forcing cooperation is something a political operative CAN do, whereas this would presumably never have been the bulk of the career experience of a doctor.

If the last poster above is referring to Senator Bill Frist (not "Frisk"), he is not a "sitting senator," having left office in 2007. While it certainly was his right to choose what to do with his life, it seemed to me at the time he ran for and was elected to office that his departure from medicine was tragic. Our country certainly needs cardiothoracic surgeons more than more politicians....




I keenly remember in the 1980s when these quarantine stations were closed down, as were many chronic care mental health hospitals, with patients turned loose and who frequently became homeless and problems in other ways. Though I didn't live through the influenza pandemic of 1917-1918 during which millions died, I knew of family members and parents and grandparents of friends who did, some of whom died. I knew it was bound to happen again (and this is not to say necessarily that it will be ebola) and was flabbergasted at the shortsightedness of doing this. Now there is the possibility of the chickens coming home to roost based on the stupidity of the shutdown of these quarantine stations....




I had been working my way through this long thread, waiting to see if anyone had the courage to bring up the AIDS epidemic of the 1980s, during which time the leader of the Western world treated this terrible disease as a moral issue rather than as, well, the terrible disease it was--and still is. And yes, thousands and thousands died, including much of a generation of creative and artistic people. It was a tragedy AND a travesty! And though I cannot remember who or what year, a speaker at a convention subsequent to the 1980s who was stricken with AIDS spoke passionately about the need to recognize this dreaded disease for what it was. Sad to say, but again the chickens coming home to roost....

And, sorry to say, I'm not a doctor, I'm not a political operative, I'm not even a businessperson, and concerned as I am, no, I have no solutions to offer.

I read your post and your responses to other posts but I am still not clear as to your point. I think you think that an M.D. would not be a good person to undertake the job of overseeing a task force on protecting this country from serious contagious disease.

There are M.D.s who are not good business managers and M.D.s who are. There are J.D.s who are not good business managers, and J.D.s who are. A J.D. can quote law, and an M.D. understands small culprits like microorganisms and knows how the slimy little bastards can slip into other people's bodies. A J.D. can talk all day and not get that.

I want someone who can say.....

"THE VIRUS STOPS HERE" . I want someone to say "STAY OUT."

[tomwed]

Perhaps reading this article will be helpful

Ebola: How to stop the disease (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/ebola-how-to-stop-the-disease-dead-in-its-tracks/article21159394/)

In the meantime, practice good hand washing. Support efforts to train medical and first responders on hazmat gear. Support sending education and supplies to the ebola zone. Food support, body bags, supportive medical equipment. Panic, politics, spreading fear and rumors and being crazy will help no one.

Thank-you for that link. I feel more confident that it is under control in Nigeria and Senegal. The NOVA presentation Surviving Ebola (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/surviving-ebola.html) is also a morale builder.

[cologal]

This CDC Fact Sheet on HIV-AIDS gives a clear picture of the incidence and risk groups affected.

CDC ? HIV in the United States ? Statistics Overview ? Statistics Center ? HIV/AIDS (http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/statistics/basics/ataglance.html)

I am not sure about your intent posting this link. What do you mean with the statement....clear picture of the incidence and risk groups affected?

Surely you can't mean that no one, other than these people, should worry about HIV. Tell that to Elizabeth Glaser...my bad you can't because she died of AIDS.

But now AIDS is a manageable disease...

[sunnyatlast]

I am not sure about your intent posting this link. What do you mean with the statement....clear picture of the incidence and risk groups affected?

Surely you can't mean that no one, other than these people, should worry about HIV. Tell that to Elizabeth Glaser...my bad you can't because she died of AIDS.

But now AIDS is a manageable disease...

Why so defensive?? My intent was to show a link to facts about how most people are contracting HIV since people above compared the 1980s onset epidemic to this Ebola epidemic. There is one difference with Ebola at this point in time in the US: epidemiologists fear it has gone or could go airborne, God forbid.

The link I posted earlier clearly explains that ominous possibility. Additionally, this info from CDC leaves room for fears of this virus being contracted by sitting beside a victim or touching surfaces where droplets may have landed and can live for several hours and could transmit by hands touching that and then touching facial orifices......

"Although coughing and sneezing are not common symptoms of Ebola, if a symptomatic patient with Ebola coughs or sneezes on someone, and saliva or mucus come into contact with that person’s eyes, nose or mouth, these fluids may transmit the disease.

What does “direct contact” mean?
Direct contact means that body fluids (blood, saliva, mucus, vomit, urine, or feces) from an infected person (alive or dead) have touched someone’s eyes, nose, or mouth or an open cut, wound, or abrasion.

How long does Ebola live outside the body?
Ebola is killed with hospital-grade disinfectants (such as household bleach). Ebola dried on surfaces such as doorknobs and countertops can survive for several hours; however, virus in body fluids (such as blood) can survive up to several days at room temperature. http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/qas.html

Until it's determined it's definitely not airborne, quarantines are wisely being set, to avoid needless, unprotected exposures to a person with the disease. I don't see anybody pro-quarantine who is making it a "moral" (puritanical sexual) issue as someone above implied.

[Walt.]

People are calling for a travel ban but there are no direct flights...if we stop all travelers at the airport we have no facilities in which to keep them for 21 days. All the quarantine stations were shutdown long ago.

Tis a problem....
Not really. Just let it be known that travelers from Ebola areas would not be admitted to the U.S. They would have to make arrangements with whatever airline they choose (at their own expense) and leave. Why would it be our responsibility? After the first few are turned back the problem would end because everyone would know it's a waste of their time and money. Of course we could do the same with... oh never mind...

Oh... the political minds missed a golden opportunity. Bill Frist would have been a good choice... but a brilliant choice would have been Dr. Ben Carson. It would have shown that this was being taken seriously... while ending all complaints. If he took the job or not it wouldn't matter. Political points scored all around for the POTUS.

[cologal]

Why so defensive?? My intent was to show a link to facts about how most people are contracting HIV since people above compared the 1980s onset epidemic to this Ebola epidemic. There is one difference with Ebola at this point in time in the US: epidemiologists fear it has gone or could go airborne, God forbid.

The link I posted earlier clearly explains that ominous possibility. Additionally, this info from CDC leaves room for fears of this virus being contracted by sitting beside a victim or touching surfaces where droplets may have landed and can live for several hours and could transmit by hands touching that and then touching facial orifices......

"Although coughing and sneezing are not common symptoms of Ebola, if a symptomatic patient with Ebola coughs or sneezes on someone, and saliva or mucus come into contact with that person’s eyes, nose or mouth, these fluids may transmit the disease.

What does “direct contact” mean?
Direct contact means that body fluids (blood, saliva, mucus, vomit, urine, or feces) from an infected person (alive or dead) have touched someone’s eyes, nose, or mouth or an open cut, wound, or abrasion.

How long does Ebola live outside the body?
Ebola is killed with hospital-grade disinfectants (such as household bleach). Ebola dried on surfaces such as doorknobs and countertops can survive for several hours; however, virus in body fluids (such as blood) can survive up to several days at room temperature. Q&As on Transmission | Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever | CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/qas.html)

Until it's determined it's definitely not airborne, quarantines are wisely being set, to avoid needless, unprotected exposures to a person with the disease. I don't see anybody pro-quarantine who is making it a "moral" (puritanical sexual) issue as someone above implied.

I admit I was vary.... The comparison in response by the White House in both cases is to be expected. For example during the hight of the AIDS crisis some members of Congress called for detention camps to house homosexuals. At that time no one knew what caused AIDS. It seemed to be limited to GAYS and Haitians. Then President Reagan did nothing as thousands died and now we have 3 cases with only 1 death and the White House response is not enough.

So far there is NO evidence Ebola is an airborne disease...none of the Duncan family members got Ebola even though they were in very close quarters. The Lab Tech, my job for 40 years, was put in lockdown because she might have handled a specimen.

There seems to be a bit of an over reaction.....to the facts.

[cologal]

Not really. Just let it be known that travelers from Ebola areas would not be admitted to the U.S. They would have to make arrangements with whatever airline they choose (at their own expense) and leave. Why would it be our responsibility? After the first few are turned back the problem would end because everyone would know it's a waste of their time and money. Of course we could do the same with... oh never mind...

Oh... the political minds missed a golden opportunity. Bill Frist would have been a good choice... but a brilliant choice would have been Dr. Ben Carson. It would have shown that this was being taken seriously... while ending all complaints. If he took the job or not it wouldn't matter. Political points scored all around for the POTUS.

I think we have to look at the facts.... travelers from West Africa will arrive at our airports. Once they get here we would have to keep them somewhere until they could be returned. We are we going to put them up? The airport Marriott or Hilton.

What makes Dr. Ben Carson such a great choice he doesn't have a background in infectious diseases does he?

[janmcn]

Not really. Just let it be known that travelers from Ebola areas would not be admitted to the U.S. They would have to make arrangements with whatever airline they choose (at their own expense) and leave. Why would it be our responsibility? After the first few are turned back the problem would end because everyone would know it's a waste of their time and money. Of course we could do the same with... oh never mind...

Oh... the political minds missed a golden opportunity. Bill Frist would have been a good choice... but a brilliant choice would have been Dr. Ben Carson. It would have shown that this was being taken seriously... while ending all complaints. If he took the job or not it wouldn't matter. Political points scored all around for the POTUS.



Dr Ben Carson, Dr Bill Frist, General Colin Powell, etc etc, all might have been good choices, but the job has been filled, and Ron Klain will start in his new position later this week.

[billethkid]

Dr Ben Carson, Dr Bill Frist, General Colin Powell, etc etc, all might have been good choices, but the job has been filled, and Ron Klain will start in his new position later this week.

Uh let's see...I got it....some of us believe there is more to the issue than just filling the job.

Some of us still hold to the notion people should be qualified for the jobs they are put into. We certainly have enough ongoing day to day proof of what happens when unqualified people are put in jobs :22yikes:

[Sandtrap328]

Uh let's see...I got it....some of us believe there is more to the issue than just filling the job.

Some of us still hold to the notion people should be qualified for the jobs they are put into. We certainly have enough ongoing day to day proof of what happens when unqualified people are put in jobs :22yikes:

Colin Powell is an infectious disease physician? Bill Frist retired in 2009 from Congress and is a heart and lung transplant specialist. Ben Carson is a pediatric neurosurgeon. NONE of these are specialists in infectious diseases. Powell is the only one who is used to give advice. Klain will be able to coordinate and delegate better than the others mentioned. He has inside government experience as a chief of staff. Yes, that is an excellent criteria!

[graciegirl]

Colin Powell is an infectious disease physician? Bill Frist retired in 2009 from Congress and is a heart and lung transplant specialist. Ben Carson is a pediatric neurosurgeon. NONE of these are specialists in infectious diseases. Powell is the only one who is used to give advice. Klain will be able to coordinate and delegate better than the others mentioned. He has inside government experience as a chief of staff. Yes, that is an excellent criteria!


Some very educated people are very lacking in knowledge of the way the body works and of chemical processes. Some people who are expert in law do not understand physics or genetics, etc.

As I have said before how disease is spread and what to do about it is the most important criteria in this crisis in my opinion. A person knowledgable about the ways of hospitals and the duties of medical workers can then say to staffers, I want you to shut down this or quarantine that or commandeer that barracks etc, etc. You have to think like a scientist to stop Ebola.

I am relieved to hear that 45 of the 48 who had something to do with the original patient have been released from quarantine.

But the Ebola crisis is far from over.

[NoMoSno]

I think we have to look at the facts.... travelers from West Africa will arrive at our airports. Once they get here we would have to keep them somewhere until they could be returned. We are we going to put them up? The airport Marriott or Hilton.

How about, just leave them on the tarmac, refuel, and sent them back.
Just like what happened to the US cruise ship.

[Walt.]

I think we have to look at the facts.... travelers from West Africa will arrive at our airports. Once they get here we would have to keep them somewhere until they could be returned. We are we going to put them up? The airport Marriott or Hilton.

What makes Dr. Ben Carson such a great choice he doesn't have a background in infectious diseases does he?
1. I guess we could build a quonset hut or two right at the airport. A day or two and out they go. Food? We could always serve up some MREs.

2. Nope. This would have been a smart move POLITICALLY. It would show that the Prez is so "above politics" that he is reaching out... etc etc. If Carson did a great job it would show that it was a brilliant selection. If he didn't know what he was doing he'd get all the blame and the Prez couldn't be faulted for trying (and a Tea Party fav would be done for).

[TexaninVA]

Dr Ben Carson, Dr Bill Frist, General Colin Powell, etc etc, all might have been good choices, but the job has been filled, and Ron Klain will start in his new position later this week.

Just out of curiosity and given your earlier comments about how you think a "political operative" is an ideal candidate to be Ebola Czar ...if the Ebola crisis had occurred in the prior administration would you have been as equally gushing had say Karl Rove been appointed?

[graciegirl]

Bazinga.

[cologal]

1. I guess we could build a quonset hut or two right at the airport. A day or two and out they go. Food? We could always serve up some MREs.

2. Nope. This would have been a smart move POLITICALLY. It would show that the Prez is so "above politics" that he is reaching out... etc etc. If Carson did a great job it would show that it was a brilliant selection. If he didn't know what he was doing he'd get all the blame and the Prez couldn't be faulted for trying (and a Tea Party fav would be done for).

I like the hut and MRE solution.

[Sandtrap328]

Just out of curiosity and given your earlier comments about how you think a "political operative" is an ideal candidate to be Ebola Czar ...if the Ebola crisis had occurred in the prior administration would you have been as equally gushing had say Karl Rove been appointed?

Actually, Karl Rove or Andy Card would have been great choices. Both are insiders who know how to get things done. One does not have to be an expert in the field in order to coordinate operations and to get all the people talking on the same page.

[sunnyatlast]

The end of quarantine today for some 40+ people is good news, but there is still a long way to go for Nina Pham, Amber Vinson, and the others with them before they were diagnosed.

Please see this timeline published 2 days ago. It shows the timeline of disease progression with Duncan, and beside it are timelines for nurses Nina and Amber--bless their weary, suffering bodies, minds and spirits. We haven't heard anything about their condition in the last 2-3 days, and I think it's worrisome--if they were on the upswing I think authorities would say so.

SEE Timelnes of disease progression:

The time factor - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/the-time-factor/2014/10/18/d3d1a254-571c-11e4-892e-602188e70e9c_graphic.html)

[TexaninVA]

Actually, Karl Rove or Andy Card would have been great choices. Both are insiders who know how to get things done. One does not have to be an expert in the field in order to coordinate operations and to get all the people talking on the same page.

Actually, by saying what you just did, it's clear you have no idea how DC really works

[CFrance]

The end of quarantine today for some 40+ people is good news, but there is still a long way to go for Nina Pham, Amber Vinson, and the others with them before they were diagnosed.

Please see this timeline published 2 days ago. It shows the timeline of disease progression with Duncan, and beside it are timelines for nurses Nina and Amber--bless their weary, suffering bodies, minds and spirits. We haven't heard anything about their condition in the last 2-3 days, and I think it's worrisome--if they were on the upswing I think authorities would say so.

SEE Timelnes of disease progression:

The time factor - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/the-time-factor/2014/10/18/d3d1a254-571c-11e4-892e-602188e70e9c_graphic.html)
If you google them, you can see reports of their conditions in newspapers today. One is in stable condition, and the other one is improving.

[Sandtrap328]

Actually, by saying what you just did, it's clear you have no idea how DC really works

No, I actually have a very good working knowledge on how things are really done in Washington.

[twinklesweep]

Actually, Karl Rove or Andy Card would have been great choices. Both are insiders who know how to get things done. One does not have to be an expert in the field in order to coordinate operations and to get all the people talking on the same page.

I agree. Why is it so difficult to understand that infectious disease doctors would be only one area of individuals reporting to the "ebola czar" whose responsibility is to coordinate the services of many different fields involved in an issue like this and to enable communication among them? Why keep harping that a physician must be in charge, which is not her or his area of expertise? Of course, physicians would have a huge role, but they are not the "insiders who know how to get things done"!

[twinklesweep]

Actually, Karl Rove or Andy Card would have been great choices. Both are insiders who know how to get things done. One does not have to be an expert in the field in order to coordinate operations and to get all the people talking on the same page.

Actually, by saying what you just did, it's clear you have no idea how DC really works

.... What was it you did in government when you were in the DC area and how long did you do it?

I too am curious to hear the answer to this question....

[VT2TV]

To be honest, I haven't read any of this thread. But after reading in the paper the other day that approx. 13,000 West Africans currently have Visas if they want to come to the USA, I am very concerned. WE aren't locking our country down. If you were a person from West Africa, possibly exposed to someone who has Ebola, or even possibly may have it, what better place to come than the USA where you can get much better health care if needed free of charge. Now you always have to take even the things you read in the paper with a grain of salt, but even considering that, it is enough to concern me.

[CFrance]

I agree. Why is it so difficult to understand that infectious disease doctors would be only one area of individuals reporting to the "ebola czar" whose responsibility is to coordinate the services of many different fields involved in an issue like this and to enable communication among them? Why keep harping that a physician must be in charge, which is not her or his area of expertise? Of course, physicians would have a huge role, but they are not the "insiders who know how to get things done"!

I agree with you. He was put in place for his organizational/coordination and communication skills so that the experts can be brought together effectively. Doctors are not necessarily known for their communication skills.

[cologal]

I was wondering how comments were being made on this thread that Ebola could be transmitted via air. Every expert to this point has said that is NOT airborne. Tonight I found out how this happened.... it seems George Will on Fox News is the person spreading this misinformation...

University of Minnesota officials are knocking down a tweet claiming its researchers say Ebola is airborne.

University spokeswoman Caroline Marin told the Star Tribune in Minneapolis that the university never made such a claim.

In fact, the tweet refers to a commentary posted a month ago on a university website that was written by Chicago-based researchers who were debating Ebola's "potential to be transmitted" to health workers by aerosolized virus particles, and thus what protective gear they should wear.

World health authorities have been clear that Ebola is transmitted through direct contact with bodily fluids, and that blood, vomit and feces carry the most virus. Health workers are at particular risk because in the course of caring for patients, they draw blood and clean up diarrhea when the patients are most infectious. Likewise in the epidemic zone in West Africa, people involved with burials of highly infectious bodies are at high risk.

What if a sick person's wet sneeze hits your hand and then you absentmindedly rub your eyes? Asked about such scenarios recently, Dr. Tom Frieden, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, allowed that, theoretically, "it would not be impossible" to catch the virus that way. But it's considered highly unlikely. No such case has been documented.

"Should you be worried you might have gotten it by sitting next to someone?" he said Wednesday. "The answer to that is no."

Frieden said "what actually happens in the real world" — and he cited four decades of dealing with Ebola in Africa — is that the disease is spread through much more direct contact with a sick person.

The World Health Organization says the same thing and notes that few studies have found Ebola in an infected person's saliva, generally in patients who were severely ill

Hopefully this information will begin to calm the fears.

[gomoho]

The only problem is who the heck believes anything Frieden says at this point? His plan changes daily which indicates he doesn't really have a clue or he would have had it right from the beginning.

[graciegirl]

I was wondering how comments were being made on this thread that Ebola could be transmitted via air. Every expert to this point has said that is NOT airborne. Tonight I found out how this happened.... it seems George Will on Fox News is the person spreading this misinformation...

University of Minnesota officials are knocking down a tweet claiming its researchers say Ebola is airborne.

University spokeswoman Caroline Marin told the Star Tribune in Minneapolis that the university never made such a claim.

In fact, the tweet refers to a commentary posted a month ago on a university website that was written by Chicago-based researchers who were debating Ebola's "potential to be transmitted" to health workers by aerosolized virus particles, and thus what protective gear they should wear.

World health authorities have been clear that Ebola is transmitted through direct contact with bodily fluids, and that blood, vomit and feces carry the most virus. Health workers are at particular risk because in the course of caring for patients, they draw blood and clean up diarrhea when the patients are most infectious. Likewise in the epidemic zone in West Africa, people involved with burials of highly infectious bodies are at high risk.

What if a sick person's wet sneeze hits your hand and then you absentmindedly rub your eyes? Asked about such scenarios recently, Dr. Tom Frieden, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, allowed that, theoretically, "it would not be impossible" to catch the virus that way. But it's considered highly unlikely. No such case has been documented.

"Should you be worried you might have gotten it by sitting next to someone?" he said Wednesday. "The answer to that is no."

Frieden said "what actually happens in the real world" — and he cited four decades of dealing with Ebola in Africa — is that the disease is spread through much more direct contact with a sick person.

The World Health Organization says the same thing and notes that few studies have found Ebola in an infected person's saliva, generally in patients who were severely ill

Hopefully this information will begin to calm the fears.

Cologal, You have been a long time poster on this forum, and so I hope you won't be annoyed if I ask you if you have a medical background. Your very confident answers make me think so.

[graciegirl]

I agree with you. He was put in place for his organizational/coordination and communication skills so that the experts can be brought together effectively. Doctors are not necessarily known for their communication skills.


I almost always agree with anything you say, C. And you well may be right on this one. I think the frustration for ME comes from a number of things here. I had no clue we didn't have a surgeon general and I had no clue who the old one was and really thought she was underqualified when I read her Curriculum Vitae.. Do you remember that guy from a previous administration with the beard telling us to stop smoking? I remember him, and I seem to remember that he was a very respected person in the medical community.

I know this. That some people do not know body parts even. They cannot tell their posterior from an excavation.

But...whoever is in charge is moving toooooooo slowly for me.

[cologal]

Cologal, You have been a long time poster on this forum, and so I hope you won't be annoyed if I ask you if you have a medical background. Your very confident answers make me think so.

I was a Medical Technologist in Hospital Labs for 40 years, so yes I do. In addition my family includes, 2 nurses, 1 pharmacist and 4 doctors currently. I forgot 1 make that 5 doctors.

Thanks for asking

[graciegirl]

Just read this...and this is sort of how I am thinking.

Ebola scare: We need a surgeon general (opinion) - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/opinion/callan-ebola-surgeon-general-frieden/index.html)

[cologal]

The only problem is who the heck believes anything Frieden says at this point? His plan changes daily which indicates he doesn't really have a clue or he would have had it right from the beginning.

If you don't believe him then find 1 case of Ebola which was transmitted through the air.

Would you rather the CDC keep using a protocol that puts medical personnel in danger or change the protocol to reduce risk?

[graciegirl]

If you don't believe him then find 1 case of Ebola which was transmitted through the air.

Would you rather the CDC keep using a protocol that puts medical personnel in danger or change the protocol to reduce risk?

Here is what I want. Too much, too early,but the too early part is slipping away.

Here is the dilemma for me. At the critical time, WHEN a person begins shedding viruses, when he becomes contagious, when he may put his hand to his mouth and carry the saliva to a towel dispenser or a theatre seat, I want to have SOMEONE who completely understands when that happens and how that happens and protects all of us from it.

I know I am not the only mom who TRIED to keep one kid from infecting another. For me, I had one kid who was born with congenital heart malformations and when she was little the risk factor for surgery had not dropped to a level to be safe yet. We had to keep her alive until it did. When she got a cold, it became pneumonia and she was hospitalized and terrified, because that was BEFORE parents were allowed to stay with their hospitalized kids 24/7.

SO I used all of my intelligence in keeping Helene safe from her sister, Typhoid Mary, and it didn't work.

So I am have panic programmed into me about this whole issue, and I don't want a lawyer telling me how to feel.