Controversial and quasi-political threads

[eweissenbach]

it seems to me that the threads that have political overtones, or controversial topics have proliferated on TOTV lately. I have participated in some of them, and usually come away with a bad taste in my mouth, both for my participation, and for others. I find that these threads usually cause people to become defensive and confrontational, and virtually everyone responds predictably according to their political persuasion and almost no one opens their mind to larger questions real introspection, not that I am surprised by that. I used to participate sporadically in the opt-in political forum, and found it more entertaining than informative, but at least most everyone was interested in the word jousting that regularly took place. When these issues get on the general board it seems that the tone quickly turns rather ugly with a bit of ganging up and even bullying occasionally resulting. On the poli forum I could tolerate it, and even enjoy it, but on the general forum it seems to be something else to me. I find myself losing respect for people that I otherwise respect and enjoy hearing from. For that reason I have decided to try my best to avoid those topics that might be interesting, but will inevitably devolve into animosity. That is not what I come to this site for, or what I joined for in the first place. To me, this is a great forum for information about TV, and the lives of the people in and interested in, TV. Please don't take this as a criticism of anyone, it is just an observation of what I see, and how I can best be a good citizen of the site. I would like to see the opt in poli forum return, but unless and until it does I will do my best to stay upbeat and out of the fray.

[JB in TV]

Thanks for a well thought out and presented post.

[Bogie Shooter]

////

[MikeV]

I find your comment about everyone responding predictably to be right on. I think that by this time in our lives we have become fixed in our thinking and shut out any opposing views. I find myself doing just that in some threads and I am not really that way normally. I have participated in some of those threads and have seen how belligerent some posters become especially in political views and 2nd Amendment views. So I understand why the political forum was shut down. It's better to keep TOTV as benign as possible.

[billethkid]

being a past participant of the political forum I would offer the following observation to you all.
The forum was fine and allowed any topic.

It was spoiled by some very few who even after warnings continued to bait, harass and get down right nasty personal.

In addition there were some number of TOTV members who did not care for or like politics and had their views how people should disagree or not. While they did not like the political forum they would continue to come in and then complain to the administration about what they did not like to see and hear.

Now keep in mind that the political forum was made such that one HAD TO OPT IN to read/participate. The new political posts did not show up in the general new posts tab. So those who did not like it would opt in and then go complain.

So I here once again offer the same advice I did back then. If there is a forum or thread that does not suit one or the subject matter one does not care for.......it was and still is so simple....just do not go into that forum or that thread or subject matter one does not like.

I for one do enjoy the fact that some of the wordly subjects that do infact affect or potentially affect our lives or the lives of our friends and loved ones are being posted and actively participated in. And yes there are times when they do skew (like every forum or subject on TOTV does) off subject. And sometimes the subject drifts into political waters.

Another point to think about is that what is political to some is not to others.

I do not beleive the tone of any one thread or topic affects the way communications are conducted in other areas.

When I see or know there is a subject I do not care for, I do not go in to see what is going on. When someone in a thread gets out in left field or states something I do not particularly like.....it is just too easy to ignore!!!

In closing I would hope that the behavior of a few do not create an aura of general condition....when it is not. It wasn't in the political forum either!



I feel strongly about being able to have discussions and disagreements and even spirited counterpoint........No struggle no progress.

The above commentary is not aimed at any individual....but to the prospect of not being able to have open discussions about world affairs.

[Rags123]

being a past participant of the political forum I would offer the following observation to you all.
The forum was fine and allowed any topic.

It was spoiled by some very few who even after warnings continued to bait, harass and get down right nasty personal.

In addition there were some number of TOTV members who did not care for or like politics and had their views how people should disagree or not. While they did not like the political forum they would continue to come in and then complain to the administration about what they did not like to see and hear.

Now keep in mind that the political forum was made such that one HAD TO OPT IN to read/participate. The new political posts did not show up in the general new posts tab. So those who did not like it would opt in and then go complain.

So I here once again offer the same advice I did back then. If there is a forum or thread that does not suit one or the subject matter one does not care for.......it was and still is so simple....just do not go into that forum or that thread or subject matter one does not like.

I for one do enjoy the fact that some of the wordly subjects that do infact affect or potentially affect our lives or the lives of our friends and loved ones are being posted and actively participated in. And yes there are times when they do skew (like every forum or subject on TOTV does) off subject. And sometimes the subject drifts into political waters.

Another point to think about is that what is political to some is not to others.

I do not beleive the tone of any one thread or topic affects the way communications are conducted in other areas.

When I see or know there is a subject I do not care for, I do not go in to see what is going on. When someone in a thread gets out in left field or states something I do not particularly like.....it is just too easy to ignore!!!

In closing I would hope that the behavior of a few do not create an aura of general condition....when it is not. It wasn't in the political forum either!



I feel strongly about being able to have discussions and disagreements and even spirited counterpoint........No struggle no progress.

The above commentary is not aimed at any individual....but to the prospect of not being able to have open discussions about world affairs.

I support what BTK has to say here.

If I do not like to read any subject area, say TALK OF THE BOOKS for an example, I do not go to BOOKS. If there is a subject in NON VILLAGES like say KITCHEN AID MIXER, I do not open it and do not read it.

NEVER, would I go on those threads and lecture those who do post. That is their business and they hurt nobody. If anyone does not want to read current events, then dont but please do not speak as if discussion of current events where you have the choice to enter that thread or not is having a negative affect on TOTV. It bothers anyone, they just should stay away.

I am pretty sure that a small group tore down the POLITICAL site with complaints, not on violations of TOTV policy, but violations of what they felt was to be said along with arranging to troll the board in groups. I KNOW that happened for a fact and TOTV had no choice...it became unwieldy for them to handle.

Next, I have always try to back my posts with credible links and solid facts. Those who visit these threads and simply take snipes offer NOTHING to any discussion.

Again, if a thread is offensive then please just do not read it.

I also totally disagree with the thought that mind do not get changed. IF those who participate actually give credible and accurate information that can be read, there is a real learning curve. I have learned much on the old political forum, especially in the area of economics which is not my strong suit. Sure we all have hard and fast general positions, but hopefully we are all open to learn and expand. HOWEVER, those who simply troll and make one line comments with no discussion offer nothing and I often wonder why they spend the time to post that one liner. It does not make much sense.

[kcrazorbackfan]

Great post.

[tomwed]

I think I know what you mean Ed. But after re-reading your post maybe I don't. So for what it's worth:

I think the problem is thinking of good questions.
What is your favorite book, where would you want to fly to and what do you set the thermostat at are great questions, at least for me.
It makes me think. It helps me. I learn. My son told me this is important for me now.
I thought of good questions too in the past, first phone numbers, where were you in the Cuban Missile crises, superstitions, and many more.
These first hand accounts are the best of TOTV. I feel like I'm reading a Ken Burns script.
Ed, help us think of good questions so we can avoid all the dogma and rhetoric.

[Sandtrap328]

I find your comment about everyone responding predictably to be right on. I think that by this time in our lives we have become fixed in our thinking and shut out any opposing views. I find myself doing just that in some threads and I am not really that way normally. I have participated in some of those threads and have seen how belligerent some posters become especially in political views and 2nd Amendment views. So I understand why the political forum was shut down. It's better to keep TOTV as benign as possible.

MikeV is absolutely right when he states that people our ages are not going to have our minds changed on political issues and will shut out opposing views automatically.

The political forum was really not informative on what was happening and did get mighty cantankerous at times. I have become good friends with a couple of the "opposition" and still get in good political jibing with them. We all know it is in fun.

Probably a good idea to keep it shut down.

[Skybo]

I've actually had a positive reaction to the so-called "political" threads that have appeared lately. In fact I've felt that, for the most part, they have been respectful toward individual posters...while having intelligent discussions on current topics. And I've assumed that is why Admin have recently given us some leeway in discussing these topics.

In the past, I've wondered why discussions on the ACA were quickly shut down, while discussions on Social Security, Medicare and taxes were allowed to be discussed. They are all government programs and they all have the potential to bleed into political discussions.

It seems to me that topics such as pools, IRS bond issues, home construction, roundabouts and the never ending debate about dogs, etc. frequently become contentious and divide posters according to their personal opinions.

That is what happens when people with differing opinions engage in lively debate about issues that are important to them.

Personally, I think that Admin should treat us as the seasoned adults that we are, and allow us to discuss the issues we wish to discuss. And at the same time, we should all act like the seasoned adults that we are, and discuss issues without dissolving into less than adult behavior.

[CFrance]

I've actually had a positive reaction to the so-called "political" threads that have appeared lately. In fact I've felt that, for the most part, they have been respectful toward individual posters...while having intelligent discussions on current topics. And I've assumed that is why Admin have recently given us some leeway in discussing these topics.

In the past, I've wondered why discussions on the ACA were quickly shut down, while discussions on Social Security, Medicare and taxes were allowed to be discussed. They are all government programs and they all have the potential to bleed into political discussions.

It seems to me that topics such as pools, IRS bond issues, home construction, roundabouts and the never ending debate about dogs, etc. frequently become contentious and divide posters according to their personal opinions.

That is what happens when people with differing opinions engage in lively debate about issues that are important to them.

Personally, I think that Admin should treat us as the seasoned adults that we are, and allow us to discuss the issues we wish to discuss. And at the same time, we should all act like the seasoned adults that we are, and discuss issues without dissolving into less than adult behavior.
A lot of it depends on which moderator is on. Some are more lenient than others about threads touching on politics.

I once had a post removed for answering someone's question "Who are the Koch brothers?" My answer that they funded the Tea Party was removed as being political. That was back when they used to tell you why they were removing one of your posts.

The other thing is that these people are in Texas, I believe, so some of posts fly under the radar because no one's on duty out there yet.

I could be wrong. I think I've been wrong before. Once or twice.

[sunnyatlast]

it seems to me that the threads that have political overtones, or controversial topics have proliferated on TOTV lately……….
…..To me, this is a great forum for information about TV, and the lives of the people in and interested in, TV. ……...I would like to see the opt in poli forum return, but unless and until it does I will do my best to stay upbeat and out of the fray.

To me, it is germaine to a "forum for information about TV, and the lives of the people in and interested in, TV" when people here engage other intelligent, articulate, and capable thinkers in discussing current events that seriously threaten or bolster our nation's unity, integrity and freedoms, or our community's peaceful, orderly, fiscally sound way of life.

It is disturbing to see how much people are going along with being silenced, to just let media talking heads and politicians do all the thinking and expression of thought for us. Our forefathers, veterans and active military have not fought, bled, gotten crippled/maimed or died so that we could sit around being fat, dumb and happy, without having to think and speak for ourselves.

I have no idea why people found the opt-in political forum to be so deeply upsetting or offensive, when they did not have to go in and see it in the first place!

Are they afraid they might learn something about their flawed or unsubstantiated arguments?

[Skybo]

A lot of it depends on which moderator is on. Some are more lenient than others about threads touching on politics.

I once had a post removed for answering someone's question "Who are the Koch brothers?" My answer that they funded the Tea Party was removed as being political. That was back when they used to tell you why they were removing one of your posts.

The other thing is that these people are in Texas, I believe, so some of posts fly under the radar because no one's on duty out there yet.

I could be wrong. I think I've been wrong before. Once or twice.


You may be right CF... about the different Mods, and the times that Admin are online. I don't know anything about that.

However, lately, there seems to be much more leniency toward discussing "political" issues, where in the past, there was none.

And I put the word "political" in quotes for a reason. I do not consider most of these discussions as political, but rather extremely important issues for all Americans, regardless of their political party.

In any case the aforementioned leniency appears to have continued for several days and presumably...hopefully... it is not due to whomever was "on duty" at any given time.

[graciegirl]

I've actually had a positive reaction to the so-called "political" threads that have appeared lately. In fact I've felt that, for the most part, they have been respectful toward individual posters...while having intelligent discussions on current topics. And I've assumed that is why Admin have recently given us some leeway in discussing these topics.

In the past, I've wondered why discussions on the ACA were quickly shut down, while discussions on Social Security, Medicare and taxes were allowed to be discussed. They are all government programs and they all have the potential to bleed into political discussions.

It seems to me that topics such as pools, IRS bond issues, home construction, roundabouts and the never ending debate about dogs, etc. frequently become contentious and divide posters according to their personal opinions.

That is what happens when people with differing opinions engage in lively debate about issues that are important to them.

Personally, I think that Admin should treat us as the seasoned adults that we are, and allow us to discuss the issues we wish to discuss. And at the same time, we should all act like the seasoned adults that we are, and discuss issues without dissolving into less than adult behavior.


That is my view exactly, if I were able to phrase it just like that I would.

I didn't like the political forum, but since it was shut down, I have turned a corner. I now am very interested in world events and of course have my views. I am entitled to my views. I am a senior citizen. I have learned a great deal about how differently others see the world and it has caused me to think a lot.

In for a penny, in for a pound. It doesn't take long for people to figure out where you stand. It does eliminate close relationships with people who loathe your views, but it does open up new friendships too.

I want to talk and discuss and get upset over what is happening in the world today with people whose views I respect, and some whose views I do not agree with.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't feed you, hug you, listen to you and drive you to the doctor and care what happens to you. Meanwhile you have the opportunity to think how such a nice person can be so narrow minded.

Ain't a whole lot of years left. I am finally interested in world affairs and want to talk about them and lecture and yell and steam and .........well you know.

[l2ridehd]

It's great to be able to discuss world events that have the potential to impact our lives going forward. What happened on the political forum was it would deteriorate into name calling. People were not able to discuss political issues without using the politicians one liner jabs at those they do not agree with.

For some reason I cannot understand most people seem to believe that the absolute worst devil who lies cheats and steals but belongs to their party is better than the absolute most honest high integrity respected person from the other party.

Believe me that there are crooks, saints, devils, smart people and all other walks of life that belong to both political parties. And if your reading this thinking "yes, but there is more of them bad ones in the other party" then your part of the problem. Both have lots and lots of each type. I always try to look at what a candidate stands for, their positions on current issues and how I think they will represent me when I vote. Yes my support falls to those I agree with which happen to belong to one party more than the other, but during my long life I have voted for candidates from both parties many many times.

[Madelaine Amee]

it seems to me that the threads that have political overtones, or controversial topics have proliferated on TOTV lately. I have participated in some of them, and usually come away with a bad taste in my mouth, both for my participation, and for others. I find that these threads usually cause people to become defensive and confrontational, and virtually everyone responds predictably according to their political persuasion and almost no one opens their mind to larger questions real introspection, not that I am surprised by that. I used to participate sporadically in the opt-in political forum, and found it more entertaining than informative, but at least most everyone was interested in the word jousting that regularly took place. When these issues get on the general board it seems that the tone quickly turns rather ugly with a bit of ganging up and even bullying occasionally resulting. On the poli forum I could tolerate it, and even enjoy it, but on the general forum it seems to be something else to me. I find myself losing respect for people that I otherwise respect and enjoy hearing from. For that reason I have decided to try my best to avoid those topics that might be interesting, but will inevitably devolve into animosity. That is not what I come to this site for, or what I joined for in the first place. To me, this is a great forum for information about TV, and the lives of the people in and interested in, TV. Please don't take this as a criticism of anyone, it is just an observation of what I see, and how I can best be a good citizen of the site. I would like to see the opt in poli forum return, but unless and until it does I will do my best to stay upbeat and out of the fray.

:mademyday: Well written and very articulate Coach! As for discussing politics, there is an old, old saying "empty vessels make the most noise" and we are never, ever, going to change anyone's opinion on politics or religion.

[graciegirl]

It's great to be able to discuss world events that have the potential to impact our lives going forward. What happened on the political forum was it would deteriorate into name calling. People were not able to discuss political issues without using the politicians one liner jabs at those they do not agree with.

For some reason I cannot understand most people seem to believe that the absolute worst devil who lies cheats and steals but belongs to their party is better than the absolute most honest high integrity respected person from the other party.

Believe me that there are crooks, saints, devils, smart people and all other walks of life that belong to both political parties. And if your reading this thinking "yes, but there is more of them bad ones in the other party" then your part of the problem. Both have lots and lots of each type. I always try to look at what a candidate stands for, their positions on current issues and how I think they will represent me when I vote. Yes my support falls to those I agree with which happen to belong to one party more than the other, but during my long life I have voted for candidates from both parties many many times.

As usual. I agree with your every word.

I have voted for both parties. I am conservative in a lot of things, but moderate to liberal in others. Pay your bills, don't spend money on foolishness. I am a fiscal conservative for sure. Take care of yourself and your family. That is your job. If you really can't than I want to help you. I am not a Tea Party Conservative, but I rankle when they are criticized. I see them as mostly good people who are more traditional than I am on certain things. I HATE when someone criticizes someone's religion for no good reason. Most American Christians sects harm no one. Most Jewish sects harm no one. I stand for the separation of Church and State but I hate when someone says they are going to introduce a book on devil worship in the public schools. That is mean hearted. Hatred breeds hatred. I see your point, but you make no points with me with that kind of tactic. I am old fashioned but I am for stem cell research. I could not have an abortion but do not want Roe vs Wade rescinded. I used to think differently, but now I entertain all views...unless you are cussed mean and hateful. I respect people who believe in God and I do, most of the time. I love the tradition of the religion I was born with but I don't attend Mass. Well sometimes.

Merry Christmas.

[Madelaine Amee]

It's great to be able to discuss world events that have the potential to impact our lives going forward. What happened on the political forum was it would deteriorate into name calling. People were not able to discuss political issues without using the politicians one liner jabs at those they do not agree with.

For some reason I cannot understand most people seem to believe that the absolute worst devil who lies cheats and steals but belongs to their party is better than the absolute most honest high integrity respected person from the other party.

Believe me that there are crooks, saints, devils, smart people and all other walks of life that belong to both political parties. And if your reading this thinking "yes, but there is more of them bad ones in the other party" then your part of the problem. Both have lots and lots of each type. I always try to look at what a candidate stands for, their positions on current issues and how I think they will represent me when I vote. Yes my support falls to those I agree with which happen to belong to one party more than the other, but during my long life I have voted for candidates from both parties many many times.

:mademyday: I wish I'd written this post too.................

[Rags123]

I have seen folks have their religious beliefs actually mocked on here and nobody cares.

I have seen nastier posts on threads to discuss DOGS, or POOLS.

So, the talk about nasty posting, to me, falls on deaf ears.

The political forum is gone because a small group of people decided it was real smart to get together and support each other in reporting and making snide remarks. Mind you, they USED the forum for their entertainment.

The political forum at its beginning was just wonderful. I personally learned so very much from posters on there. One, in particular, who had different political philosophies than I, but an expertise in economics. Over time during the 2008-2009 period when our country was in economic distress and I had my own ideas, just reading his posts changed my mind and taught me a lot. Fact is, his posts made me a loyal reader of Economist magazine.

Then the shift in population.(Population of the political forum) Those who were interested in WINNING, not learning and discussing. Too much for TOTV and I understood and understand why they did away with it. Many of those are still posting and still to this day making snide remarks instead of giving opinions and supplying some backup for that feeling which is what exchange of ideas is all about.

I am also really shocked at this thread. Will there soon be threads about KITCHEN AID MIXERS, or OOMA VS MAGICJACK and varying opinions on there. As I said, some of the nastiest posts I have ever seen on here were about pools and dogs as two examples.

It alludes me how someone can be upset about threads concerning things they DO NOT WANT TO TALK ABOUT. That is so easy to fix....do not read it.

Some have all the answers....they preach on what we should talk about. Some want to learn from others....I count myself among those. I am already feeling bad about criticizing the dog posts and pool posts. Not so much the religious comments...imagine actually making fun of someones personal religious beliefs and their bible, yet nobody began a thread about that.

I would never hint at telling anyone else what to talk about yet, it seems some think certain subject matter (not including mocking religious beliefs or being nasty about pools or dogs) should not be discussed.

I grew up and have always been around people with strong opinions. They could offer good arguments for how they felt. They stimulated my thinking and changed many of my opinions. And yes, many with snide comments, BUT NEVER WITH ONLY SNIDE COMMENTS.

Just disappointed that some on here want to make decisions for us all on things that do not even affect them, ie. If you do not want to read it skip it as I do on dogs and pools.

My apologies to all those who post on dogs and pools...just borrowed that for an example

[Bavarian]

I do not know why peoples First Amendment's Right to Free Speech restricted. Everyone has Freedom of Speech, but they don't have to be listened to.

[Average Guy]

I do not know why peoples First Amendment's Right to Free Speech restricted. Everyone has Freedom of Speech, but they don't have to be listened to.

Then moderators of this forum also have the right to determine what to allow and not allow. We are just users of their forum. If you do not agree with their rules, you can always stop being a user.

[Challenger]

That is my view exactly, if I were able to phrase it just like that I would.

I didn't like the political forum, but since it was shut down, I have turned a corner. I now am very interested in world events and of course have my views. I am entitled to my views. I am a senior citizen. I have learned a great deal about how differently others see the world and it has caused me to think a lot.

In for a penny, in for a pound. It doesn't take long for people to figure out where you stand. It does eliminate close relationships with people who loathe your views, but it does open up new friendships too.

I want to talk and discuss and get upset over what is happening in the world today with people whose views I respect, and some whose views I do not agree with.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't feed you, hug you, listen to you and drive you to the doctor and care what happens to you. Meanwhile you have the opportunity to think how such a nice person can be so narrow minded.

Ain't a whole lot of years left. I am finally interested in world affairs and want to talk about them and lecture and yell and steam and .........well you know.

Yea:ho:

[Cedwards38]

it seems to me that the threads that have political overtones, or controversial topics have proliferated on TOTV lately. I have participated in some of them, and usually come away with a bad taste in my mouth, both for my participation, and for others. I find that these threads usually cause people to become defensive and confrontational, and virtually everyone responds predictably according to their political persuasion and almost no one opens their mind to larger questions real introspection, not that I am surprised by that. I used to participate sporadically in the opt-in political forum, and found it more entertaining than informative, but at least most everyone was interested in the word jousting that regularly took place. When these issues get on the general board it seems that the tone quickly turns rather ugly with a bit of ganging up and even bullying occasionally resulting. On the poli forum I could tolerate it, and even enjoy it, but on the general forum it seems to be something else to me. I find myself losing respect for people that I otherwise respect and enjoy hearing from. For that reason I have decided to try my best to avoid those topics that might be interesting, but will inevitably devolve into animosity. That is not what I come to this site for, or what I joined for in the first place. To me, this is a great forum for information about TV, and the lives of the people in and interested in, TV. Please don't take this as a criticism of anyone, it is just an observation of what I see, and how I can best be a good citizen of the site. I would like to see the opt in poli forum return, but unless and until it does I will do my best to stay upbeat and out of the fray.

I fear that TOTV is a microcosm of our society. True political discourse, for the purpose of having a better understanding seems to have gone by the wayside in favor or the constant competition of winning the next election. In Congress, and in our society, the sport of politics has overshadowed the desire to understand each other and cooperate for the good of all. Everything the President does is cruelly criticized by the opposition party, and the dedicated wings of the national media. And before this President, the same was done by the other side. It's a sad day for representative government.

[scarecrow1]

As usual. I agree with your every word.

I have voted for both parties. I am conservative in a lot of things, but moderate to liberal in others. Pay your bills, don't spend money on foolishness. I am a fiscal conservative for sure. Take care of yourself and your family. That is your job. If you really can't than I want to help you. I am not a Tea Party Conservative, but I rankle when they are criticized. I see them as mostly good people who are more traditional than I am on certain things. I HATE when someone criticizes someone's religion for no good reason. Most American Christians sects harm no one. Most Jewish sects harm no one. I stand for the separation of Church and State but I hate when someone says they are going to introduce a book on devil worship in the public schools. That is mean hearted. Hatred breeds hatred. I see your point, but you make no points with me with that kind of tactic. I am old fashioned but I am for stem cell research. I could not have an abortion but do not want Roe vs Wade rescinded. I used to think differently, but now I entertain all views...unless you are cussed mean and hateful. I respect people who believe in God and I do, most of the time. I love the tradition of the religion I was born with but I don't attend Mass. Well sometimes.

Merry Christmas.

I think we need more moderation in both parties and all religions. The world would be a much better place.

[billethkid]

as one of the two retiring congressmen were quoted this morning....I paraphrase here.....over the last 20 or more years congress has become more concerned about winning elections and re-elections than the job of representing the people.

As a side note....can you imagine ANYBODY still working a key executive position in ANY organization anywhere in the world for 59 years......at age 91!!!

Absolutely criminal and an excellent example of one of the major problems we have with our representatives.

No controvery here just FYI.....fuel for future discussion.

[eweissenbach]

I fear that TOTV is a microcosm of our society. True political discourse, for the purpose of having a better understanding seems to have gone by the wayside in favor or the constant competition of winning the next election. In Congress, and in our society, the sport of politics has overshadowed the desire to understand each other and cooperate for the good of all. Everything the President does is cruelly criticized by the opposition party, and the dedicated wings of the national media. And before this President, the same was done by the other side. It's a sad day for representative government.

I agree with this. It is my opinion that a lot of the Animosity for the other side (whichever side that may be) is constantly stirred and simmered by adversarial media. Fox News, MSNBC, and the numerous wing nut talking heads get people stirred up, often with slanted or downright disingenuous "news". Say what you will about the network news and traditional print media, they usually try, tried, to report the facts and let the consumer make up their minds (aside from columnists and editorials, which were usually clear in their slant). I find that a lot of folks I know (not necessarily you) choose to pay attention to only the slanted viewpoints that support their position, and thus are never exposed to differing opinions, or even facts that might cause them to rethink their position. Thus they are continually reaffirmed of the "rightness" of their side, and the wrongheaded stupidity of anyone who would dare to differ. One thread I commented on a while back was an assertion by a poster that their side (party) was guided completely by logic while the other side was guided completely by emotion. You can't hope to reach a reasonable basis for discussion of divisive issues holding a rigid point of view such as that. I lean left but am often in agreement with the right, and believe both sides are, for the most part, sincere and righteous in their convictions, but are often manipulated by media and politicians.

[njbchbum]

Where does true political discourse take place anymore? Have we not determined/decided, even among those with whom we share an aquaintance/friendship, that it is in the best interest of maintaining that aquaintance/friendship by NOT discussing religion and politics?

[rubicon]

It's great to be able to discuss world events that have the potential to impact our lives going forward. What happened on the political forum was it would deteriorate into name calling. People were not able to discuss political issues without using the politicians one liner jabs at those they do not agree with.

For some reason I cannot understand most people seem to believe that the absolute worst devil who lies cheats and steals but belongs to their party is better than the absolute most honest high integrity respected person from the other party.

Believe me that there are crooks, saints, devils, smart people and all other walks of life that belong to both political parties. And if your reading this thinking "yes, but there is more of them bad ones in the other party" then your part of the problem. Both have lots and lots of each type. I always try to look at what a candidate stands for, their positions on current issues and how I think they will represent me when I vote. Yes my support falls to those I agree with which happen to belong to one party more than the other, but during my long life I have voted for candidates from both parties many many times.

Hi12ridehd:

I agree with your post and especially the name calling portion. In fact in today's society people debating actually believe name calling is their argument.

Like many posters here I tire quickly of the vanilla flavor topics. I don't post nor do I believe anything said by me will change anyone's mind... but so many topics need a national conversation .

the riots are a clear example of our nation's inability to debate.

the political forum was stimulating and I believe it could have continued if the Admin just shut down the name callers

[2BNTV]

it seems to me that the threads that have political overtones, or controversial topics have proliferated on TOTV lately. I have participated in some of them, and usually come away with a bad taste in my mouth, both for my participation, and for others. I find that these threads usually cause people to become defensive and confrontational, and virtually everyone responds predictably according to their political persuasion and almost no one opens their mind to larger questions real introspection, not that I am surprised by that. I used to participate sporadically in the opt-in political forum, and found it more entertaining than informative, but at least most everyone was interested in the word jousting that regularly took place. When these issues get on the general board it seems that the tone quickly turns rather ugly with a bit of ganging up and even bullying occasionally resulting. On the poli forum I could tolerate it, and even enjoy it, but on the general forum it seems to be something else to me. I find myself losing respect for people that I otherwise respect and enjoy hearing from. For that reason I have decided to try my best to avoid those topics that might be interesting, but will inevitably devolve into animosity. That is not what I come to this site for, or what I joined for in the first place. To me, this is a great forum for information about TV, and the lives of the people in and interested in, TV. Please don't take this as a criticism of anyone, it is just an observation of what I see, and how I can best be a good citizen of the site. I would like to see the opt in poli forum return, but unless and until it does I will do my best to stay upbeat and out of the fray.

Hit the nail on the head!!!! :bigbow:

[Chi-Town]

as one of the two retiring congressmen were quoted this morning....I paraphrase here.....over the last 20 or more years congress has become more concerned about winning elections and re-elections than the job of representing the people.

As a side note....can you imagine ANYBODY still working a key executive position in ANY organization anywhere in the world for 59 years......at age 91!!!

Absolutely criminal and an excellent example of one of the major problems we have with our representatives.

No controvery here just FYI.....fuel for future discussion.

Congress has an 11% approval rating but 96% of the incumbents were reelected. I don't know who to be mad at, them or us.

[Villages PL]

it seems to me that the threads that have political overtones, or controversial topics have proliferated on TOTV lately. I have participated in some of them, and usually come away with a bad taste in my mouth, both for my participation, and for others. I find that these threads usually cause people to become defensive and confrontational, and virtually everyone responds predictably according to their political persuasion and almost no one opens their mind to larger questions real introspection, not that I am surprised by that. I used to participate sporadically in the opt-in political forum, and found it more entertaining than informative, but at least most everyone was interested in the word jousting that regularly took place. When these issues get on the general board it seems that the tone quickly turns rather ugly with a bit of ganging up and even bullying occasionally resulting. On the poli forum I could tolerate it, and even enjoy it, but on the general forum it seems to be something else to me. I find myself losing respect for people that I otherwise respect and enjoy hearing from. For that reason I have decided to try my best to avoid those topics that might be interesting, but will inevitably devolve into animosity. That is not what I come to this site for, or what I joined for in the first place. To me, this is a great forum for information about TV, and the lives of the people in and interested in, TV. Please don't take this as a criticism of anyone, it is just an observation of what I see, and how I can best be a good citizen of the site. I would like to see the opt in poli forum return, but unless and until it does I will do my best to stay upbeat and out of the fray.

I agree. Sometimes it seems like everything has political overtones. Talk about a book, food, or doctors, and there are those who see only politics.

[TexaninVA]

I have several reactions …

The sometimes emotional discussions and talking past each, while lamentable, is also IMHO unavoidable and simply a reflection of the reality we live in. Look at the news and the breakouts for any given issue … Ferguson, CIA report, election results etc. I think, if we step back and look at the big picture, we recognize we are going through a societal evolution that happens predictably over the course of several generations. (The book, “The Fourth Turning” has a good analysis of this view). For those of us who remember high school history, the “Era of Good Feelings” was replaced two generations later by a civil war. My point is, if we are to have any discussions of political or current events topics, most of us won’t be around to see a world where civility reigns in discourse … not that it ever truly has. When a very large group of the citizens agree on a world view, the discussions will taper down … why not, we would all then be in agreement. We are obviously in kind of an alternative state at present, and it’s been evolving since the 1960s.

I was not on TOTV during the days of the prior political board that people keep referring to so I don’t have firsthand knowledge. But, I think I have the gist of what happened … name calling and all that. But, seems to me that can be moderated and dealt with. The other factor, which I totally concede, is the business model of TOTV. If they want “no politics” and prefer for business reasons to keep it pretty much at the level described in the sticky note “…We strive for this forum to be only happiness, fluff and light” then it’s their right to do that.

However, with all the things of true importance going on in the world, and having to be hamstrung or prevented from discussing these issues seems to have a very large downside … pretty boring. Maybe that’s good business here in The Villages? It’s also pretty clear … if we did have a dedicated political thread, then no one would force people to go there. In fact, that’s a microcosm of the entire philosophical divide is it not … “free market” (go there if you want, but if not don’t) vs “statism” (hey, we forbid it)

I like TOTV, and will continue to look and participate from time to time, but I have recently looked to more flexible boards that permit people (within guidelines etc) to discuss those issues that truly impact our lives. Unfortunately, and as it turns out, life is not “happiness & fluff” after all.

[onslowe]

Hi12ridehd:

I agree with your post and especially the name calling portion. In fact in today's society people debating actually believe name calling is their argument.

Like many posters here I tire quickly of the vanilla flavor topics. I don't post nor do I believe anything said by me will change anyone's mind... but so many topics need a national conversation .

the riots are a clear example of our nation's inability to debate.

the political forum was stimulating and I believe it could have continued if the Admin just shut down the name callers

Good post and I agree. BTK's thoughts are on point too. And once again, I state my devout belief in the 'refrigerator' concept. One doesn't have to eat every damn thing in the big white box. Close the door!

I never got involved in the political thread or section but I felt it was a loss to have it closed because of a few screwballs who could have been dealt with individually.

Civil discourse does not have to be 'nicey nicey' or pleasing to most, it just has to be civil and respectful, in a two way street sort of way.

Good thread Ed.

[rubicon]

Good post and I agree. BTK's thoughts are on point too. And once again, I state my devout belief in the 'refrigerator' concept. One doesn't have to eat every damn thing in the big white box. Close the door!

I never got involved in the political thread or section but I felt it was a loss to have it closed because of a few screwballs who could have been dealt with individually.

Civil discourse does not have to be 'nicey nicey' or pleasing to most, it just has to be civil and respectful, in a two way street sort of way.

Good thread Ed.

refrigerator concept:1rotfl:

[Wandatime]

Are we a reflection of Fox and MSNBC or are they a reflection of us?

Many people turn to those types of entertainment news outlets as their main, if not only, source of information about the world around them. With one source of information, thinking becomes more in line with that source. Because inflammatory news will trump fact based news in ratings any day of the week, the sources become more tilted as they scramble for more viewers.

What we now have are two major "news" outlets that are far more interested in pushing their skewed agenda than in actually reporting news that has been investigated, fact checked, and vetted.

With so many people engaged in one outlet or the other as their major source of information, it is easy to see how political forums can quickly become a tug of war between two complete extremes of the spectrum. Sadly, many of us who are a blend of viewpoints end up not participating in political forums for fear of being harassed rather than enlightened.

[Jdmiata]

Are we a reflection of Fox and MSNBC or are they a reflection of us?

Many people turn to those types of entertainment news outlets as their main, if not only, source of information about the world around them. With one source of information, thinking becomes more in line with that source. Because inflammatory news will trump fact based news in ratings any day of the week, the sources become more tilted as they scramble for more viewers.

What we now have are two major "news" outlets that are far more interested in pushing their skewed agenda than in actually reporting news that has been investigated, fact checked, and vetted.

With so many people engaged in one outlet or the other as their major source of information, it is easy to see how political forums can quickly become a tug of war between two complete extremes of the spectrum. Sadly, many of us who are a blend of viewpoints end up not participating in political forums for fear of being harassed rather than enlightened.

Well said, Wanda. Seems to me that most people don't want to "discuss" politics, they want to "argue" politics. Such discussions lead nowhere so I stay out of them.

[billethkid]

Are we a reflection of Fox and MSNBC or are they a reflection of us?

Many people turn to those types of entertainment news outlets as their main, if not only, source of information about the world around them. With one source of information, thinking becomes more in line with that source. Because inflammatory news will trump fact based news in ratings any day of the week, the sources become more tilted as they scramble for more viewers.

What we now have are two major "news" outlets that are far more interested in pushing their skewed agenda than in actually reporting news that has been investigated, fact checked, and vetted.

With so many people engaged in one outlet or the other as their major source of information, it is easy to see how political forums can quickly become a tug of war between two complete extremes of the spectrum. Sadly, many of us who are a blend of viewpoints end up not participating in political forums for fear of being harassed rather than enlightened.

I don't think those of us who feel pssionately about our beleifs are single sourced on ANY subject. And I will venture a guess that represents the majority....a guess.

As far as the character or following or bias of the different providers we all have our respective opinions of what they may or may not be...right or wrong!

The moat disheartening of your commentary is the last sentence which I have highlighted a portion. We all KNOW those who are destined to do nothing more than stir the pot or bait or name call are in the minorty of participants....and at a very, very low single digit % of the total. Yet when discussing political forums these few and their unacceptable behavior is all that people seem to want to highlight. And then there are those with a fear of being harassed and hence decide not to participate.

That is just so wrong and plays directly into the objective of the smattering few. The best defense as proven by most of our previous experience is to ignore them. They have no basis to continue if there is no patter with them.

Why not join the majority of us who are capable of discussions, including contested issues or disagreement and enjoy and learn from the valid discussions. These rabble rousing posters are akin to terrorist in one manner of speaking as they, by your own words, generate fear. Join the rest of us and do not give them that satisfaction.

[eweissenbach]

Are we a reflection of Fox and MSNBC or are they a reflection of us?

Many people turn to those types of entertainment news outlets as their main, if not only, source of information about the world around them. With one source of information, thinking becomes more in line with that source. Because inflammatory news will trump fact based news in ratings any day of the week, the sources become more tilted as they scramble for more viewers.

What we now have are two major "news" outlets that are far more interested in pushing their skewed agenda than in actually reporting news that has been investigated, fact checked, and vetted.

With so many people engaged in one outlet or the other as their major source of information, it is easy to see how political forums can quickly become a tug of war between two complete extremes of the spectrum. Sadly, many of us who are a blend of viewpoints end up not participating in political forums for fear of being harassed rather than enlightened.

Excellent thoughts. I agree with you, that these quasi news outlets help create partisans that believe that truth and good is only on their side and an opposing point of view is worthy of disdain and ridicule. I am sure that many will disagree in a predictable way, but Al Sharpton = Shawn Hannity = Ed Schultz = Rush Limbaugh etc. etc. As to BTKs point that these discussions need to take place, I would say two things. First, any discussion on a relatively small forum such as this is not going to cause any real change for the better, it is simply a place where people can come to vent. Second, I cannot remember a single time on the poli board, or general discussion, where someone conceded that something posted on a controversial subject caused them to rethink or reevaluate their position, rather they continue to belabor the same talking points. After awhile on the poli board I could predict with near certainty, how each of the dozen or so regular posters would respond to almost anything, in fact this will probably elicit at least one predictable retort.

[eweissenbach]

I don't think those of us who feel pssionately about our beleifs are single sourced on ANY subject. And I will venture a guess that represents the majority....a guess.

Billie, I agree that YOU are not single sourced, however I would not extend that compliment to a majority or even a significant minority among political Partisans.

[graciegirl]

Billie, I agree that YOU are not single sourced, however I would not extend that compliment to a majority or even a significant minority among political Partisans.


I think that most have a certain view of the world that they don't want interrupted. All of us think we are right.

I dislike people who down any group of people without thinking about it a LOT. Not all rich or poor people are corrupt. Not all black or white people are good. Not all religious or non religious people are holders of the truth. Not all bright people are smart. Not all non Mensa people are uneducated and incorrect. Not all people who have always voted one way are right nor are all people who have voted both ways.

Sometimes we have to learn to say things without malice even if we are mad...and talking about our values and having them challenged does make us mad. To call someone uncaring, without compassion, is hurtful, and only ONE point of view from the direction of one person's values.. We are all thinking we look at the world the right way. But we all can't agree.

I think taunting and name calling and stirring the pot, pretty much shuts down any discussion and debate. And there are some that always do just that, and we know who they are. Also we all get mad and retaliate with the most stinging criticism we can come up with sometimes.

My husband says the anonymous people can say anything. AND he is right. There are a lot of cowards hiding behind their computers. But there are also a lot of genuine, thoughtful, wise people who are anonymous too. We know who they are.

And we can be either, most of us, on any given day. We cannot get to five decades of life or better without feeling passionate about what we believe in. We CAN'T.

[eweissenbach]

I think that most have a certain view of the world that they don't want interrupted. All of us think we are right.

I dislike people who down any group of people without thinking about it a LOT. Not all rich or poor people are corrupt. Not all black or white people are good. Not all religious or non religious people are holders of the truth. Not all bright people are smart. Not all non Mensa people are uneducated and incorrect. Not all people who have always voted one way are right nor are all people who have voted both ways.

Sometimes we have to learn to say things without malice even if we are mad...and talking about our values and having them challenged does make us mad. To call someone uncaring, without compassion, is hurtful, and only ONE point of view from the direction of one person's values.. We are all thinking we look at the world the right way. But we all can't agree.

I think taunting and name calling and stirring the pot, pretty much shuts down any discussion and debate. And there are some that always do just that, and we know who they are. Also we all get mad and retaliate with the most stinging criticism we can come up with sometimes.

My husband says the anonymous people can say anything. AND he is right. There are a lot of cowards hiding behind their computers. But there are also a lot of genuine, thoughtful, wise people who are anonymous too. We know who they are.

And we can be either, most of us, on any given day. We cannot get to five decades of life or better without feeling passionate about what we believe in. We CAN'T.

Nothing to disagree with there, and much of what you say seems to validate my initial point, that responding on controversial or political threads often leads to hurt feelings and resentment.

[Topspinmo]

IMO the problem is two party system, you have party line sheep that can't think for themselves or have been hoodwinked. This goes for both parties. I find if enough tell lie and repeat it enough now all of sudden it's true. I have voted both democrat and republican and have lived to regret both due to the fact they do one thing to get elected and another when in office. IMO it boils down to who can lie the most and get blind following. Once you blind you can't see! :eclipsee_gold_cup:

[Advogado]

I've actually had a positive reaction to the so-called "political" threads that have appeared lately. In fact I've felt that, for the most part, they have been respectful toward individual posters...while having intelligent discussions on current topics. And I've assumed that is why Admin have recently given us some leeway in discussing these topics.

In the past, I've wondered why discussions on the ACA were quickly shut down, while discussions on Social Security, Medicare and taxes were allowed to be discussed. They are all government programs and they all have the potential to bleed into political discussions.

It seems to me that topics such as pools, IRS bond issues, home construction, roundabouts and the never ending debate about dogs, etc. frequently become contentious and divide posters according to their personal opinions.

That is what happens when people with differing opinions engage in lively debate about issues that are important to them.

Personally, I think that Admin should treat us as the seasoned adults that we are, and allow us to discuss the issues we wish to discuss. And at the same time, we should all act like the seasoned adults that we are, and discuss issues without dissolving into less than adult behavior.

I wholeheartedly agree with you and totally disagree with the ban on political discussions or references.

Few issues of any significance can be discussed without some "politics" working its way into the discussion. Unless TOV is content to be relegated to a meaningless bit of fluff-- discussing only issues such as parades, favorite beaches, and dog poop on lawns, I would say bring back the political forum and let political references creep into other areas, where relevant. When was the last time anybody came up to you and said, "Hey, you won't believe what I saw on Talk of the Villages"?

If one wonders why such a tiny percentage of Villagers log in to TOV and why a handful of members seem to be responsible for the majority of the posts, I think the answer is because TOV is generally boring and very seldom discusses anything of real significance. My suggestion to the administrator: Don't be so sensitive about somebody's possibly getting upset because somebody else disagrees with him or her. Liven up TOV. Allow discussions of politics and other controversial topics and let the chips fall where they may. Just keep the discussion civil by not allowing personal attacks on other members.

[graciegirl]

I wholeheartedly agree with you and totally disagree with the ban on political discussions or references.

Few issues of any significance can be discussed without some "politics" working its way into the discussion. Unless TOV is content to be relegated to a meaningless bit of fluff-- discussing only issues such as parades, favorite beaches, and dog poop on lawns, I would say bring back the political forum and let political references creep into other areas, where relevant. When was the last time anybody came up to you and said, "Hey, you won't believe what I saw on Talk of the Villages"?

If one wonders why such a tiny percentage of Villagers log in to TOV and why a handful of members seem to be responsible for the majority of the posts, I think the answer is because TOV is generally boring and very seldom discusses anything of real significance. My suggestion to the administrator: Don't be so sensitive about somebody's possibly getting upset because somebody else disagrees with him or her. Liven up TOV. Allow discussions of politics and other controversial topics and let the chips fall wear they may. Just keep the discussion civil by not allowing personal attacks on other members.


Excellent post. Well stated.

[eweissenbach]

Just to clarify, I did not say controversial Or political threads should be banned and I also stated I would like to see the opt-in poli board resurrected. I simply stated that for my own well-being I am going to try and avoid them for the most part, unless the poli board comes back. BTW there are countless other forums that invite political discussion, including some that are free-for-alls - I am a member of one such board and used to participate in the political forum there, but left it a few years ago and only occasionally see what they are saying, and usually am amused and disgusted at the same time when I do.

[rubicon]

I wholeheartedly agree with you and totally disagree with the ban on political discussions or references.

Few issues of any significance can be discussed without some "politics" working its way into the discussion. Unless TOV is content to be relegated to a meaningless bit of fluff-- discussing only issues such as parades, favorite beaches, and dog poop on lawns, I would say bring back the political forum and let political references creep into other areas, where relevant. When was the last time anybody came up to you and said, "Hey, you won't believe what I saw on Talk of the Villages"?

If one wonders why such a tiny percentage of Villagers log in to TOV and why a handful of members seem to be responsible for the majority of the posts, I think the answer is because TOV is generally boring and very seldom discusses anything of real significance. My suggestion to the administrator: Don't be so sensitive about somebody's possibly getting upset because somebody else disagrees with him or her. Liven up TOV. Allow discussions of politics and other controversial topics and let the chips fall wear they may. Just keep the discussion civil by not allowing personal attacks on other members.

you are right and this is not the first time these suggestions and disappointments about removing the political forum had been expressed.

Hurt feelings or resentment issues can be managed. simply stated by TOTV itself. Address the contents of the post not the poster. For those offenders boot them out. By what happen to stick and stones will break my bones but names ill never hurt me?

[Chi-Town]

We've all been told to not discuss religion and politics at social gatherings. TOTV is a social gathering and as such it's more like a neighborhood party. Lots of things are discussed and interesting topics are part of the discourse. Throw in one or two party goers who want to pull politics into the mix and the whole atmosphere changes.

That's why a political forum would be most beneficial; it would provide an outlet for those sidebar conversations.

[Xavier]

:click: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A)

[tomwed]

Why not set up your own political forum for Villagers to join? It's free and easy and you decide who can join and who to exclude. I'm guessing you would exclude non-villagers.

I set up a yahoo groups site for 2 different groups. It wasn't hard. Neither one worked out because no one wanted to join. Not everyone wants or needs to chat online. I like TOTV because at least for now, I live alone and this takes the place of conversation when I'm alone. It's like a faculty room [sorry, ex-teacher] that I can always visit.

I belong to 2 Village yahoo groups that have worked out and they are very old. One is for birding and one is photography. They are wonderful.


It's easy to do click here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H0zFcY7EZY) to learn more about yahoo groups and click here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nRSEkwQnOo) to watch a video about starting your own political forum yahoo group.

[justjim]

If I remember correctly, the political forum was closed during the Presidental election year. I think it just got too time consuming for the moderator and the adminstrator. The emotions and opinions of TOTV posters ran completely off the charts. All the negative ads run by both political parties tends to create negative opinion by the electorate IMHO.

Unfortunately, some people can't agree to disagree and then move on. We need more of the electorate and politicians who take more of a compromise and middle of the road approach. Dwight Eisenhower probably said it best. "I despise people who go to the gutter on either the right or the left and hurl rocks at those in the center.".

[eweissenbach]

If I remember correctly, the political forum was closed during the Presidental election year. I think it just got too time consuming for the moderator and the adminstrator. The emotions and opinions of TOTV posters ran completely off the charts. All the negative ads run by both political parties tends to create negative opinion by the electorate IMHO.

Unfortunately, some people can't agree to disagree and then move on. We need more of the electorate and politicians who take more of a compromise and middle of the road approach. Dwight Eisenhower probably said it best. "I despise people who go to the gutter on either the right or the left and hurl rocks at those in the center.".
You captured and articulated my sentiments precisely. Thanks Jim!

[B767drvr]

Say what you will about the network news and traditional print media, they usually try, tried, to report the facts and let the consumer make up their minds (aside from columnists and editorials, which were usually clear in their slant).

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

That's one of the funniest things I've read in a l-o-n-g time! Good one!

[eweissenbach]

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

That's one of the funniest things I've read in a l-o-n-g time! Good one!

Glad I could provide you with a laugh. Let me guess.....you think Fox News is fair and balanced - right?

[B767drvr]

Glad I could provide you with a laugh. Let me guess.....you think Fox News is fair and balanced - right?

One group of folks believes in relying on your neighbor (gov't) and the other group believes in being self-reliant. 81% of journalists polled align themselves with relying on their neighbors. There's really no dispute. Simple statistical fact.

Merry Christmas to your neighbors... and you! :D

PS Eric, you really should pray for your neighbors health, not only because it's the right thing to do, but because they help so many!

[Xavier]

One group of folks believes in relying on your neighbor (gov't) and the other group believes in being self-reliant. 81% of journalists polled align themselves with relying on their neighbors. There's really no dispute. Simple statistical fact.

Merry Christmas to your neighbors... and you! :D

Another painter with a VERY broad brush.

[Chi-Town]

One group of folks believes in relying on your neighbor (gov't) and the other group believes in being self-reliant. 81% of journalists polled align themselves with relying on their neighbors. There's really no dispute. Simple statistical fact.

Merry Christmas to your neighbors... and you! :D
One group says that they want to be self reliant and not rely on government, but they don't want to give up Social Security, Medicare, driving on the Interstate Highway System, the FDIC. Remember how nice the GI Bill was? How helpful FHA loans were? The Consumer Products Safety Commission? The CDC? The list goes on.

[Polar Bear]

One group says that they want to be self reliant and not rely on government, but they don't want to give up Social Security, Medicare, driving on the Interstate Highway System, the FDIC. Remember how nice the GI Bill was? How helpful FHA loans were? The Consumer Products Safety Commission? The CDC? The list goes on.


Many would say that it's more a matter of degree.

[TexaninVA]

I wholeheartedly agree with you and totally disagree with the ban on political discussions or references.

Few issues of any significance can be discussed without some "politics" working its way into the discussion. Unless TOV is content to be relegated to a meaningless bit of fluff-- discussing only issues such as parades, favorite beaches, and dog poop on lawns, I would say bring back the political forum and let political references creep into other areas, where relevant. When was the last time anybody came up to you and said, "Hey, you won't believe what I saw on Talk of the Villages"?

If one wonders why such a tiny percentage of Villagers log in to TOV and why a handful of members seem to be responsible for the majority of the posts, I think the answer is because TOV is generally boring and very seldom discusses anything of real significance. My suggestion to the administrator: Don't be so sensitive about somebody's possibly getting upset because somebody else disagrees with him or her. Liven up TOV. Allow discussions of politics and other controversial topics and let the chips fall where they may. Just keep the discussion civil by not allowing personal attacks on other members.

This is rifle-shot, spot on ...

Someone said in an earlier post they can readily tell a poster's political leanings. I agree with that. What's interesting is, by reviewing the posts in this thread, most people from across the spectrum seem to be agreeing with the idea of having some type (details TBD) of a moderated political forum where people can discuss things that truly matter. This is actually a non-religious miracle of sorts ... a consensus.

From a business model viewpoint, I also fail to understand why "boring" is a clever marketing strategy for TOTV. I can see the point of not allowing politics to intrude onto discussion threads relating to "...parades, favorite beaches, and dog poop on lawns," as that would be intrusive and not-applicable. But, this is all the more reason to have a political forum. The excuse of not wanting people's feelings to be hurt no longer applies because, with a political forum, that's where the political comments will end up. Thus, if someone has tender feelings, don't go to the forum. Pretty simple, plus it also diversifies and spices up the market appeal of TOTV, something we would presumably all want (ie a more financially successful TOTV to be precise)

One other note ... the moderator's reasoning and timing on closing threads for being too political sometimes seems, at least to me, opaque. It’s a difficult job in some cases. But, the recent thread on interrogations and the Senate report did not have any postings for several days ... ie dormant and then all of a sudden Admin says it had to be closed for becoming too political. What?? Maybe if they were able to focus resources on a political forum, they would find this job easier to do and more efficient … ie by not having to police the entire TOTV board or whatever.

[B767drvr]

Many would say that it's more a matter of degree.

Exactly Polar Bear. IF the free-loaders and the load-bearing can't agree, then NO new program! Unfortunately, there are (predictably) more "reliant on their neighbors" than producers!

I truly don't understand the fear and incapacitation that many in the "rely on their neighbor" crowd feel. I do understand it's real. It must be scary.

From early childhood, I was always the "Alex P. Keaton" in a liberal upbringing (nurse and doctor parents). Rugged individualism always appealed to me and always seemed natural, not something to fear.

[graciegirl]

Glad I could provide you with a laugh. Let me guess.....you think Fox News is fair and balanced - right?

Please read my post above. Somebody is incredulous and fires a shot. Someone invades someone else's values with their values. Then comes back a zinger. THAT IS NOT DEBATE. I know. I do it myself.

And on the subject of Fox News. Is Fox News still the most watched 24 hour network? If only, if only someone would report the news and stop telling us what to think or what they think. http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/category/cable-news/

I so dislike hearing a speech from the president and then having commentators from ALL three major networks tell me what he said.

AND I agree with Polar Bear as I often do. In my opinion... It is a matter of degree.

[Sophie11]

No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

[TOTV Team]

Reminder to please stay on topic. Thanks

[Taltarzac725]

It is always a difficult job to allow people free speech while also trying to protect the integrity of a message board as to whatever information it is trying to provide people.

I do miss the political board but it frequently became ugly just like some of the other boards on TOTV also do on occasion especially anything having to do with the Morses, dog parks and dog walkers, roundabouts, etc.

I commend the admins for trying to keep some kind of balance.

TOTV looks very tame in comparison to many of the places on the web where it seems any attempt for balance is nasty, brutal and short.

[KeepingItReal]

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

That's one of the funniest things I've read in a l-o-n-g time! Good one!

Would definitely agree, there was a time maybe but it has long since passed..

[Bavarian]

Fox News and Fox Business are balanced, unlike PMSNBC. Geraldo, Juan Williams, Shpeard Smith, and more are Libs. You think Fox is the evening shows that are not labeled news, but opinion journalism, people like Greta, Bill O'Reilly, Megyn Kelly, Sean Hannity. Two different types of shows. Look at the latest scandal from DC, Gruner saying the voters were stupid, the MSM did not mention it at all, they don't care, they have 23 mins and show three stories.

There is a place for free discussion of politics and there is another news discussion site providing it.

[CFrance]

Fox News and Fox Business are balanced, unlike PMSNBC. Geraldo, Juan Williams, Shpeard Smith, and more are Libs. You think Fox is the evening shows that are not labeled news, but opinion journalism, people like Greta, Bill O'Reilly, Megyn Kelly, Sean Hannity. Two different types of shows. Look at the latest scandal from DC, Gruner saying the voters were stupid, the MSM did not mention it at all, they don't care, they have 23 mins and show three stories.

There is a place for free discussion of politics and there is another news discussion site providing it.
MSN did so mention Gruber. Google MSN Gruber. Five hits.

[Xavier]

Fox News and Fox Business are balanced, unlike PMSNBC. Geraldo, Juan Williams, Shpeard Smith, and more are Libs. You think Fox is the evening shows that are not labeled news, but opinion journalism, people like Greta, Bill O'Reilly, Megyn Kelly, Sean Hannity. Two different types of shows. Look at the latest scandal from DC, Gruner saying the voters were stupid, the MSM did not mention it at all, they don't care, they have 23 mins and show three stories.

There is a place for free discussion of politics and there is another news discussion site providing it.

Wow, am I the only one? Try as I may, I couldn't find anything in this post that made any kind of sense at all. If I am the only one, perhaps the poster could take me by the hand and explain it to me.

What is PMSNBC? What is a Shpeard? What or who is MSM and what don't they or it care about? If there is, "... a place for free discussion of politics and there is another news discussion site providing it," where would it be and why would anyone want to go there?

Xavier

[Rags123]

MSN did so mention Gruber. Google MSN Gruber. Five hits.

I dont think MSN was the intent. I think MSM was intended which is the accepted abbrev for Main Stream Media !

[Rags123]

Never saw MSM before. Maybe S&M.

Mainstream media (MSM) Mainstream media - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream_media)

MSM
"mainstream media", major TV networks and large newspapers.

Urban Dictionary: MSM (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=MSM)

Not sure where you visit to see S&M but on that, you are on your own.

[eweissenbach]

Mention MSNBC bias, which I did in an earlier post, and one almost never gets a defense. Mention Fox News bias and the defenders come galloping with indignation. The vitriol for the mainstream media seems to me to give many people carte blanche to label as bias anything that they say that doesn't fit their bias. Convenient scapegoats. Fire away! :pepper2::pepper2::pepper2: BTW I presume PMSNBC is one of those cutesy put downs like Faux News.

[Bavarian]

This was fun but intended not to be:
Fox News Libs include Shepard Smith, Geraldo Rivera, Alan Colms, Juan Williams. Seems (P)MSNBC got rid of their conservatives like Pat Buchanan.

MSM is the broadcast networks which only carry a few pieces, never mentioned Gruber, NSA, IRS scandals until months past Fox.

BTW, without Fox News, my wife and I would not be down here. Heard commercials and still do constantly on Fox News for The Villages.

[Rags123]

Mention MSNBC bias, which I did in an earlier post, and one almost never gets a defense. Mention Fox News bias and the defenders come galloping with indignation. The vitriol for the mainstream media seems to me to give many people carte blanche to label as bias anything that they say that doesn't fit their bias. Convenient scapegoats. Fire away! :pepper2::pepper2::pepper2: BTW I presume PMSNBC is one of those cutesy put downs like Faux News.


Or of corse...VULPINE NEWS, used by one poster. Never understood "cute". Like someone playing a game.

[cromlich]

Very well put, Skybo! We agree 200%.

[janmcn]

Mention MSNBC bias, which I did in an earlier post, and one almost never gets a defense. Mention Fox News bias and the defenders come galloping with indignation. The vitriol for the mainstream media seems to me to give many people carte blanche to label as bias anything that they say that doesn't fit their bias. Convenient scapegoats. Fire away! :pepper2::pepper2::pepper2: BTW I presume PMSNBC is one of those cutesy put downs like Faux News.


Funny how posters on here would never admit to watching MSNBC, but they seem to know who all the hosts and guests are and what is being said.

Conservative former congressman Joe Scarborough still has a three-hour daily show on MSNBC from 6 to 9 am. Former RNC chair Michael Steele is a frequent contributor, and Abby Huntsman, daughter of former Utah governor Huntsman has her own show at 3:pm weekdays. Just curious, does Fox News have a liberal hosting a show 15 hours a week?

[Polar Bear]

Funny how posters on here would never admit to watching MSNBC...


Oh I will admit to watching it on occasion...the comedic value alone usually makes it worth my time. :)

[Rags123]

Funny how posters on here would never admit to watching MSNBC, but they seem to know who all the hosts and guests are and what is being said.

Conservative former congressman Joe Scarborough still has a three-hour daily show on MSNBC from 6 to 9 am. Former RNC chair Michael Steele is a frequent contributor, and Abby Huntsman, daughter of former Utah governor Huntsman has her own show at 3:pm weekdays. Just curious, does Fox News have a liberal hosting a show 15 hours a week?

I don't think I have ever missed Morning Joe..not once.

News shows during the day are as good as any others, sometimes.

From 5Pm on, it is an arm of the DNC, and what separates it from Fox is that do it with pride, make no excuses for what they say and totally distort facts to suit therir agenda. I can accept a bit of bias, but totally distorting facts is just wrong and I get offended when they omit or change things, but maybe that is just me.

They don't report with a bias, or discuss with a bias from 5 PM on, if it is not on their agenda, they just ignore it. And please ask me to prove how they distort FACTS, and "report" to their audience total untruths, either by omission or just blantently . Fox, for sure has a bias, but I find they at least give you all the facts most times unlike MSNBC ho skips them or just changes them a bit.

So obviously I have watched. After 5Pm I do not expect much real news or discussion on any television station.

I am a news junkie so I pretty much have watched them all. I pretty much use my iPad to read sites, magazines, etc to keep up to date, plus I am a voracious reader of books (almost finished with THE INNOVATORS) and read most political theory and history books from both sides of the aisle (highly recommend THE BULLY PULPIT by Doris Kearns Goodwin)

I tell you that so you are aware, I DO COMPARE and I DO INVESTIGATE and dig for facts. I only say this because I have oft been criticized for being harsh, but I have a low tolerance level for two kinds of posters; the one who simply makes things up and never supplies a link to what they are posting as facts, and the poster who hears something on Fox or MSNBC and repeats it here withou even checking to see if it is factual.

I surely have been wrong in my opinions, but take some pride in saying they are arrived at after looking at both sdes if there are two sides. Problem is many simply repeat what they heard on TV. It is called the "boob tube" for good reason.

I have my own opinions on the main stream media, and journalism. I know there are a few ex journalists on TOTV and do not think I am stretching it to say they are not fans of the journalistic effort put forward today on any network.

I might add that many who do not watch MSNBC do hear and read the Maddows and Sharpton's in news stories.

You are obviously a fan of MSNBC. I would just suggest expanding your horizons a bit. It will not hurt you...will not change your view of the world, but it will put things in perspective and see ALL sides of things.