[eweissenbach]

it seems to me that the threads that have political overtones, or controversial topics have proliferated on TOTV lately. I have participated in some of them, and usually come away with a bad taste in my mouth, both for my participation, and for others. I find that these threads usually cause people to become defensive and confrontational, and virtually everyone responds predictably according to their political persuasion and almost no one opens their mind to larger questions real introspection, not that I am surprised by that. I used to participate sporadically in the opt-in political forum, and found it more entertaining than informative, but at least most everyone was interested in the word jousting that regularly took place. When these issues get on the general board it seems that the tone quickly turns rather ugly with a bit of ganging up and even bullying occasionally resulting. On the poli forum I could tolerate it, and even enjoy it, but on the general forum it seems to be something else to me. I find myself losing respect for people that I otherwise respect and enjoy hearing from. For that reason I have decided to try my best to avoid those topics that might be interesting, but will inevitably devolve into animosity. That is not what I come to this site for, or what I joined for in the first place. To me, this is a great forum for information about TV, and the lives of the people in and interested in, TV. Please don't take this as a criticism of anyone, it is just an observation of what I see, and how I can best be a good citizen of the site. I would like to see the opt in poli forum return, but unless and until it does I will do my best to stay upbeat and out of the fray.

[JB in TV]

Thanks for a well thought out and presented post.

[Bogie Shooter]

////

[MikeV]

I find your comment about everyone responding predictably to be right on. I think that by this time in our lives we have become fixed in our thinking and shut out any opposing views. I find myself doing just that in some threads and I am not really that way normally. I have participated in some of those threads and have seen how belligerent some posters become especially in political views and 2nd Amendment views. So I understand why the political forum was shut down. It's better to keep TOTV as benign as possible.

[billethkid]

being a past participant of the political forum I would offer the following observation to you all.
The forum was fine and allowed any topic.

It was spoiled by some very few who even after warnings continued to bait, harass and get down right nasty personal.

In addition there were some number of TOTV members who did not care for or like politics and had their views how people should disagree or not. While they did not like the political forum they would continue to come in and then complain to the administration about what they did not like to see and hear.

Now keep in mind that the political forum was made such that one HAD TO OPT IN to read/participate. The new political posts did not show up in the general new posts tab. So those who did not like it would opt in and then go complain.

So I here once again offer the same advice I did back then. If there is a forum or thread that does not suit one or the subject matter one does not care for.......it was and still is so simple....just do not go into that forum or that thread or subject matter one does not like.

I for one do enjoy the fact that some of the wordly subjects that do infact affect or potentially affect our lives or the lives of our friends and loved ones are being posted and actively participated in. And yes there are times when they do skew (like every forum or subject on TOTV does) off subject. And sometimes the subject drifts into political waters.

Another point to think about is that what is political to some is not to others.

I do not beleive the tone of any one thread or topic affects the way communications are conducted in other areas.

When I see or know there is a subject I do not care for, I do not go in to see what is going on. When someone in a thread gets out in left field or states something I do not particularly like.....it is just too easy to ignore!!!

In closing I would hope that the behavior of a few do not create an aura of general condition....when it is not. It wasn't in the political forum either!



I feel strongly about being able to have discussions and disagreements and even spirited counterpoint........No struggle no progress.

The above commentary is not aimed at any individual....but to the prospect of not being able to have open discussions about world affairs.

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by billethkid

being a past participant of the political forum I would offer the following observation to you all.
The forum was fine and allowed any topic.

It was spoiled by some very few who even after warnings continued to bait, harass and get down right nasty personal.

In addition there were some number of TOTV members who did not care for or like politics and had their views how people should disagree or not. While they did not like the political forum they would continue to come in and then complain to the administration about what they did not like to see and hear.

Now keep in mind that the political forum was made such that one HAD TO OPT IN to read/participate. The new political posts did not show up in the general new posts tab. So those who did not like it would opt in and then go complain.

So I here once again offer the same advice I did back then. If there is a forum or thread that does not suit one or the subject matter one does not care for.......it was and still is so simple....just do not go into that forum or that thread or subject matter one does not like.

I for one do enjoy the fact that some of the wordly subjects that do infact affect or potentially affect our lives or the lives of our friends and loved ones are being posted and actively participated in. And yes there are times when they do skew (like every forum or subject on TOTV does) off subject. And sometimes the subject drifts into political waters.

Another point to think about is that what is political to some is not to others.

I do not beleive the tone of any one thread or topic affects the way communications are conducted in other areas.

When I see or know there is a subject I do not care for, I do not go in to see what is going on. When someone in a thread gets out in left field or states something I do not particularly like.....it is just too easy to ignore!!!

In closing I would hope that the behavior of a few do not create an aura of general condition....when it is not. It wasn't in the political forum either!



I feel strongly about being able to have discussions and disagreements and even spirited counterpoint........No struggle no progress.

The above commentary is not aimed at any individual....but to the prospect of not being able to have open discussions about world affairs.

I support what BTK has to say here.

If I do not like to read any subject area, say TALK OF THE BOOKS for an example, I do not go to BOOKS. If there is a subject in NON VILLAGES like say KITCHEN AID MIXER, I do not open it and do not read it.

NEVER, would I go on those threads and lecture those who do post. That is their business and they hurt nobody. If anyone does not want to read current events, then dont but please do not speak as if discussion of current events where you have the choice to enter that thread or not is having a negative affect on TOTV. It bothers anyone, they just should stay away.

I am pretty sure that a small group tore down the POLITICAL site with complaints, not on violations of TOTV policy, but violations of what they felt was to be said along with arranging to troll the board in groups. I KNOW that happened for a fact and TOTV had no choice...it became unwieldy for them to handle.

Next, I have always try to back my posts with credible links and solid facts. Those who visit these threads and simply take snipes offer NOTHING to any discussion.

Again, if a thread is offensive then please just do not read it.

I also totally disagree with the thought that mind do not get changed. IF those who participate actually give credible and accurate information that can be read, there is a real learning curve. I have learned much on the old political forum, especially in the area of economics which is not my strong suit. Sure we all have hard and fast general positions, but hopefully we are all open to learn and expand. HOWEVER, those who simply troll and make one line comments with no discussion offer nothing and I often wonder why they spend the time to post that one liner. It does not make much sense.

[kcrazorbackfan]

Great post.

[tomwed]

I think I know what you mean Ed. But after re-reading your post maybe I don't. So for what it's worth:

I think the problem is thinking of good questions.
What is your favorite book, where would you want to fly to and what do you set the thermostat at are great questions, at least for me.
It makes me think. It helps me. I learn. My son told me this is important for me now.
I thought of good questions too in the past, first phone numbers, where were you in the Cuban Missile crises, superstitions, and many more.
These first hand accounts are the best of TOTV. I feel like I'm reading a Ken Burns script.
Ed, help us think of good questions so we can avoid all the dogma and rhetoric.

[Sandtrap328]

Originally Posted by MikeV

I find your comment about everyone responding predictably to be right on. I think that by this time in our lives we have become fixed in our thinking and shut out any opposing views. I find myself doing just that in some threads and I am not really that way normally. I have participated in some of those threads and have seen how belligerent some posters become especially in political views and 2nd Amendment views. So I understand why the political forum was shut down. It's better to keep TOTV as benign as possible.

MikeV is absolutely right when he states that people our ages are not going to have our minds changed on political issues and will shut out opposing views automatically.

The political forum was really not informative on what was happening and did get mighty cantankerous at times. I have become good friends with a couple of the "opposition" and still get in good political jibing with them. We all know it is in fun.

Probably a good idea to keep it shut down.

[Skybo]

I've actually had a positive reaction to the so-called "political" threads that have appeared lately. In fact I've felt that, for the most part, they have been respectful toward individual posters...while having intelligent discussions on current topics. And I've assumed that is why Admin have recently given us some leeway in discussing these topics.

In the past, I've wondered why discussions on the ACA were quickly shut down, while discussions on Social Security, Medicare and taxes were allowed to be discussed. They are all government programs and they all have the potential to bleed into political discussions.

It seems to me that topics such as pools, IRS bond issues, home construction, roundabouts and the never ending debate about dogs, etc. frequently become contentious and divide posters according to their personal opinions.

That is what happens when people with differing opinions engage in lively debate about issues that are important to them.

Personally, I think that Admin should treat us as the seasoned adults that we are, and allow us to discuss the issues we wish to discuss. And at the same time, we should all act like the seasoned adults that we are, and discuss issues without dissolving into less than adult behavior.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by Skybo

I've actually had a positive reaction to the so-called "political" threads that have appeared lately. In fact I've felt that, for the most part, they have been respectful toward individual posters...while having intelligent discussions on current topics. And I've assumed that is why Admin have recently given us some leeway in discussing these topics.

In the past, I've wondered why discussions on the ACA were quickly shut down, while discussions on Social Security, Medicare and taxes were allowed to be discussed. They are all government programs and they all have the potential to bleed into political discussions.

It seems to me that topics such as pools, IRS bond issues, home construction, roundabouts and the never ending debate about dogs, etc. frequently become contentious and divide posters according to their personal opinions.

That is what happens when people with differing opinions engage in lively debate about issues that are important to them.

Personally, I think that Admin should treat us as the seasoned adults that we are, and allow us to discuss the issues we wish to discuss. And at the same time, we should all act like the seasoned adults that we are, and discuss issues without dissolving into less than adult behavior.

A lot of it depends on which moderator is on. Some are more lenient than others about threads touching on politics.

I once had a post removed for answering someone's question "Who are the Koch brothers?" My answer that they funded the Tea Party was removed as being political. That was back when they used to tell you why they were removing one of your posts.

The other thing is that these people are in Texas, I believe, so some of posts fly under the radar because no one's on duty out there yet.

I could be wrong. I think I've been wrong before. Once or twice.

[sunnyatlast]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

it seems to me that the threads that have political overtones, or controversial topics have proliferated on TOTV lately���.
�..To me, this is a great forum for information about TV, and the lives of the people in and interested in, TV. ��...I would like to see the opt in poli forum return, but unless and until it does I will do my best to stay upbeat and out of the fray.

To me, it is germaine to a "forum for information about TV, and the lives of the people in and interested in, TV" when people here engage other intelligent, articulate, and capable thinkers in discussing current events that seriously threaten or bolster our nation's unity, integrity and freedoms, or our community's peaceful, orderly, fiscally sound way of life.

It is disturbing to see how much people are going along with being silenced, to just let media talking heads and politicians do all the thinking and expression of thought for us. Our forefathers, veterans and active military have not fought, bled, gotten crippled/maimed or died so that we could sit around being fat, dumb and happy, without having to think and speak for ourselves.

I have no idea why people found the opt-in political forum to be so deeply upsetting or offensive, when they did not have to go in and see it in the first place!

Are they afraid they might learn something about their flawed or unsubstantiated arguments?

[Skybo]

Originally Posted by CFrance

A lot of it depends on which moderator is on. Some are more lenient than others about threads touching on politics.

I once had a post removed for answering someone's question "Who are the Koch brothers?" My answer that they funded the Tea Party was removed as being political. That was back when they used to tell you why they were removing one of your posts.

The other thing is that these people are in Texas, I believe, so some of posts fly under the radar because no one's on duty out there yet.

I could be wrong. I think I've been wrong before. Once or twice.

You may be right CF... about the different Mods, and the times that Admin are online. I don't know anything about that.

However, lately, there seems to be much more leniency toward discussing "political" issues, where in the past, there was none.

And I put the word "political" in quotes for a reason. I do not consider most of these discussions as political, but rather extremely important issues for all Americans, regardless of their political party.

In any case the aforementioned leniency appears to have continued for several days and presumably...hopefully... it is not due to whomever was "on duty" at any given time.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Skybo

I've actually had a positive reaction to the so-called "political" threads that have appeared lately. In fact I've felt that, for the most part, they have been respectful toward individual posters...while having intelligent discussions on current topics. And I've assumed that is why Admin have recently given us some leeway in discussing these topics.

In the past, I've wondered why discussions on the ACA were quickly shut down, while discussions on Social Security, Medicare and taxes were allowed to be discussed. They are all government programs and they all have the potential to bleed into political discussions.

It seems to me that topics such as pools, IRS bond issues, home construction, roundabouts and the never ending debate about dogs, etc. frequently become contentious and divide posters according to their personal opinions.

That is what happens when people with differing opinions engage in lively debate about issues that are important to them.

Personally, I think that Admin should treat us as the seasoned adults that we are, and allow us to discuss the issues we wish to discuss. And at the same time, we should all act like the seasoned adults that we are, and discuss issues without dissolving into less than adult behavior.

That is my view exactly, if I were able to phrase it just like that I would.

I didn't like the political forum, but since it was shut down, I have turned a corner. I now am very interested in world events and of course have my views. I am entitled to my views. I am a senior citizen. I have learned a great deal about how differently others see the world and it has caused me to think a lot.

In for a penny, in for a pound. It doesn't take long for people to figure out where you stand. It does eliminate close relationships with people who loathe your views, but it does open up new friendships too.

I want to talk and discuss and get upset over what is happening in the world today with people whose views I respect, and some whose views I do not agree with.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't feed you, hug you, listen to you and drive you to the doctor and care what happens to you. Meanwhile you have the opportunity to think how such a nice person can be so narrow minded.

Ain't a whole lot of years left. I am finally interested in world affairs and want to talk about them and lecture and yell and steam and .........well you know.

[l2ridehd]

It's great to be able to discuss world events that have the potential to impact our lives going forward. What happened on the political forum was it would deteriorate into name calling. People were not able to discuss political issues without using the politicians one liner jabs at those they do not agree with.

For some reason I cannot understand most people seem to believe that the absolute worst devil who lies cheats and steals but belongs to their party is better than the absolute most honest high integrity respected person from the other party.

Believe me that there are crooks, saints, devils, smart people and all other walks of life that belong to both political parties. And if your reading this thinking "yes, but there is more of them bad ones in the other party" then your part of the problem. Both have lots and lots of each type. I always try to look at what a candidate stands for, their positions on current issues and how I think they will represent me when I vote. Yes my support falls to those I agree with which happen to belong to one party more than the other, but during my long life I have voted for candidates from both parties many many times.