Katie Belle's

[Polar Bear]

I doubt very much that changes being made to Katie Belles will affect the value of my house.
Agreed.

[Bonny]

When we bought here in 1999 Santiago was the last Village & that's where we moved. It was very cool to have our own restaurant, Santiago. No one wanted to see it go, but we all survived. I love Katie Belles, but life will go on.

[LynnWM158]

Is Cattle Baron's already closed?

[JMEZARIC3]

According to the Daily Sun, Katie Belle's is being relocated to the second floor and the Cattle Baron's Club is going away. Seating is being expanded to 300 and the first floor will be commercial. Although not explicitly stated, looking at the artist rendition in the paper showing entertainment and seating area, there does not appear to be a dancing area.
The Cattle Baron and Katie Belle's were a major part of my Life Style Tour and helped to sell TV to me.On the tour I learned all the benefits of TV are in place before homes are sold in a new villages.I never asked if these benefits are forever.How can the keystone of the Life Style Tour be taken away!

[graciegirl]

The Cattle Baron and Katie Belle's were a major part of my Life Style Tour and helped to sell TV to me.On the tour I learned all the benefits of TV are in place before homes are sold in a new villages.I never asked if these benefits are forever.How can the keystone of the Life Style Tour be taken away!


It is ONE restaurant with entertainment. JUST ONE.

It appears that the business was sold to a private business who is reconfiguring it. There will be a restaurant there in that building.

Change happens, sometimes it is what we like and sometimes it isn't.

I see NO reason to malign the Morse family over this. They have sold almost all of the restaurants that they originally established and ran; Cane Garden, The Lighthouse, the one that is now Panera Bread in Lake Sumter. They set them up so there would be restaurants with the plan to sell the business and keep the building to lease.

They aren't the devil incarnate for doing this. They are just business people. They aren't anyone's mother.

[Bonny]

Hard to believe this thread has created 26 pages. :popcorn: :)

[Talk Host]

One has to wonder ifthe structural integrity of the second floor was designed to hold the combined weight of all the people dancing. I guess engineers will have to do some work on that before anything is completed.

hello

[ROCKETMAN]

Too bad money seems to be the driving force !!!!! The atmosphere is superb now , ! - I'm afraid it will be lost upstairs !! The openness of the sand floor is most unique ,
I always imagine 'GUNSMOKE ' and 'Miss Kitty ' when I go in there !!!!! That will be Lost ,

After reading all the posts there are many questions unanswered. I always was of the opinion katy bells was owned by the developer. To say it never made money i don't beleive for a moment. Many nights of the week all seats and bar full. If it wasn't making money would have raised prices years ago and in fact there pricing hasn't changed a whole lot in years. maybe a different story for cattle baron. In the end it is a simple story that if you own property and are not violating any laws you can do what you want. Buying more land to build more houses is not something residents have a say in. The cdds can offer requests , more rec centers etc. but in the end developer can do what they want. 300 more residents will not build an other grocery store or restaurant. Also how amenity money and katy bells closure is something i don't understand.:bigbow:

[BigbirdPhila]

Maybe, maybe not. The fact that sales agents use it as part of a sales pitch implies that, from their professional judgement and client feedback, it does have a value to prospective buyers and would argue that you are wrong.

Many on this thread argue that KB was unprofitable and hence it makes perfect business sense to close/change. As others have stated, but warrants repeating, what The Villages as a corporation sells is a Lifestyle - it's what separates TV from the myriad of other retirement communities. That is more than just an individual restaurant or activity, it is the entirety of the experience. Closing what many consider to be a significant contributor to that lifestyle or ambiance becaue it may not be making a direct contribution to the bottom line is akin to Disney cancelling its parade down Main Street because it costs millions to put on but doesn't generate any direct revenue.

The KB closing (yes, for all intents and purpose KB as a unique venue is gone forever), is just one of many degradations to the lifestyle that I have experienced since we have been here. I suspect that change in the direction of lifestyle degradation will only continue - at least those components that may not individually add to the bottom line of the developer. The one positive exception to this may be the Sharon - I am impressed with its possibilities. I hope it finds the right mix of quality entertainment at a pricepoint that is sustainable.

I wonder if the Life Long Learning Center is profitable? If not, it too may find its way to the chopping block.

Excellent post. Bears repeating.

[BigbirdPhila]

Hard to believe this thread has created 26 pages. :popcorn: :)

Because KB's is an icon. Unique to the Florida retirement community market. Maybe even the US market. It (currently) is not a generic restaurant. The new one will be. The Villages is not helping distinguish itself in this crowded market. It is blending in.

[BigbirdPhila]

On Rocky & the Rollers nights, KB's is packed. 200+ people. Multiple times per month. Where are all these dancers going to dance once the current Katie's closes? In a multi-story, air conditioned venue with a wooden dance floor or on cement in a town square? On a hot, humid summer night.

The bad news is going to travel fast once reality sets in.

[Bonny]

We bought in 1999. We have seen the many sides to Katie Belles. The whole bottom (including Chicos) and the upstairs was all Katie Belles. The servers wore those great big period dresses, spats, etc. They had a big salad wheel they brought to the table. There was a pool table and a tabletop shuffleboard next to the upstairs bar. We would go upstairs and drink and shoot pool. Norman Lee and The Katie Bar The Door Band was the house band. $1.00 burgers on the patio on Tuesdays and several of the girls wore roller skates. The girls would all get together for a fashion show there. So we know the uniqueness of Katie Belles and we have seen many, many changes there.
Every time a change came, everyone was upset !!
We have another change and I'm sure it will be done with total class and will be beautiful.
And..... life will go on. :)

[Bonny]

On Rocky & the Rollers nights, KB's is packed. 200+ people. Multiple times per month. Where are all these dancers going to dance once the current Katie's closes? In a multi-story, air conditioned venue with a wooden dance floor or on cement in a town square? On a hot, humid summer night.

The bad news is going to travel fast once reality sets in.
There will be a dance floor upstairs. Katie Belles is not closing, just movin' on up.

[Polar Bear]

We bought in 1999. We have seen the many sides to Katie Belles. The whole bottom (including Chicos) and the upstairs was all Katie Belles. The servers wore those great big period dresses, spats, etc. They had a big salad wheel they brought to the table. There was a pool table and a tabletop shuffleboard next to the upstairs bar. We would go upstairs and drink and shoot pool. Norman Lee and The Katie Bar The Door Band was the house band. $1.00 burgers on the patio on Tuesdays and several of the girls wore roller skates. The girls would all get together for a fashion show there. So we know the uniqueness of Katie Belles and we have seen many, many changes there.
Every time a change came, everyone was upset !!
We have another change and I'm sure it will be done with total class and will be beautiful.
And..... life will go on. :)
You mean...change happens?!? :22yikes: :icon_wink:

[Bonny]

You mean...change happens?!? :22yikes: :icon_wink:
And... we may survive ! LOL :1rotfl:

[looneycat]

Because KB's is an icon. Unique to the Florida retirement community market. Maybe even the US market. It (currently) is not a generic restaurant. The new one will be. The Villages is not helping distinguish itself in this crowded market. It is blending in.

ridiculous! The Villages hardly needs KBS to distinguish itself in the market...

[BigbirdPhila]

So we know the uniqueness of Katie Belles and we have seen many, many changes there.
Every time a change came, everyone was upset !!
We have another change and I'm sure it will be done with total class and will be beautiful.


Yes, change happens. But this time you are losing the building (basically). This is not a costume change or something easily tried & then reversed if it doesn't work. What's going to bring customers into the new Katie's that a (refurbished) old Katie's couldn't have done? I would argue that people will be less inclined to go to the new Katie's.

[BigbirdPhila]

There will be a dance floor upstairs. Katie Belles is not closing, just movin' on up.

It will be nowhere near the size of the current one. They're covering that section of the building with tables. In fact, it can't even be seen in the artist's rendering that I saw. Definitely couldn't handle the R&R crowd.

[Bonny]

Yes, change happens. But this time you are losing the building (basically). This is not a costume change or something easily tried & then reversed if it doesn't work. What's going to bring customers into the new Katie's that a (refurbished) old Katie's couldn't have done? I would argue that people will be less inclined to go to the new Katie's.

We loved going up there and shooting pool then sitting out on the balcony and we sure missed those $1.00 burgers. No we didn't like the changes made, but we still went.
I couldn't say people would be "less inclined to go" there.
It would be a shame if people don't go there because they "don't like" the change. It would be their loss.
Katie Belles will go on.

[Barefoot]

Because KB's is an icon. Unique to the Florida retirement community market. Maybe even the US market. It (currently) is not a generic restaurant. The new one will be. The Villages is not helping distinguish itself in this crowded market. It is blending in.

The Villages has many unique features. Probably "free golf for life" is the best known.
The active lifestyle and hundreds of activities/clubs/pools are also well known. Also the three Town Squares.
We will still have a Resident's club called Katie Belles.
I doubt the lack of a two-story KB will deter anyone from buying a home in The Villages.

[RickeyD]

The Villages has many unique features. Probably "free golf for life" is the best known.
The active lifestyle and hundreds of activities/clubs/pools are also well known. Also the three Town Squares.
We will still have a Resident's club called Katie Belles.
I doubt the lack of a two-story KB will deter anyone from buying a home in The Villages.


Exactly. KB's ain't a make or a break, simply a nice little add on.

[Challenger]

Have lived here for five years. Never been inKB. Actually never trhought about going. Won't go when it reopens.

My guess is that the vast majority of Villagers feel the same. Never hear anyone even mention KB except here.

I empathise with those who have lost a venue that they enjoyed and maybe if it had been better patronized , things might be different. The sky however will not fall.

Business failures , bankruptcies,etc are the cleansing agents that clear out the least efficient parts of our economy and make room for innovation and renewal. Most other systems end up looking like the old USSR.

For me -- I'll take take capitalism even though there may be some pain from time to time.

[BigbirdPhila]

ridiculous! The Villages hardly needs KBS to distinguish itself in the market...

Then somebody should tell the sales reps that they are wasting their time. They now take prospective buyers to see KB's on their sales tour. To show those people what helps set the Villages apart from other retirement communities they might be considering. The new KB's will not have the same "wow" factor as the old one -- it will be interesting to see if it even remains on the tour. It might just be shown on the lifestyle video.

[graciegirl]

Then somebody should tell the sales reps that they are wasting their time. They now take prospective buyers to see KB's on their sales tour. To show those people what helps set the Villages apart from other retirement communities they might be considering. The new KB's will not have the same "wow" factor as the old one -- it will be interesting to see if it even remains on the tour. It might just be shown on the lifestyle video.


Skeptical here. They haven't with the friends who recently were here to look.

They gave out free meal three, four years ago.

[dewilson58]

Have lived here for five years. Never been inKB. Actually never trhought about going. Won't go when it reopens.

My guess is that the vast majority of Villagers feel the same. Never hear anyone even mention KB except here.

I empathise with those who have lost a venue that they enjoyed and maybe if it had been better patronized , things might be different. The sky however will not fall.

Business failures , bankruptcies,etc are the cleansing agents that clear out the least efficient parts of our economy and make room for innovation and renewal. Most other systems end up looking like the old USSR.

For me -- I'll take take capitalism even though there may be some pain from time to time.


Agree.
KB is just one place within three town squares.
KB does not define the "Lifestyle."
Been in there three times and the food was average at best.

:icon_bored:

[BigbirdPhila]

It would be a shame if people don't go there because they "don't like" the change.

It's not that they wouldn't like it -- it's just that the new one will not have the "wow" of the old one to draw them there. Many people now take visiting friends to KB's to show them something different. Most people have never been in a wild west-style dance hall. The new one will be more generic -- a restaurant with free music and a very small dance floor. Something people can probably find closer to their home -- why fight the traffic and parking to go to Spanish Springs?

My contention is that less people will be prone to go to the new KB's than the old one. It might gross less $$ per year than the old one. The redeeming factor, as far as the accountants are concerned, is the extra $$ the first floor retail space will bring in that the current KB's doesn't.

[Bonny]

It's not that they wouldn't like it -- it's just that the new one will not have the "wow" of the old one to draw them there. Many people now take visiting friends to KB's to show them something different. Most people have never been in a wild west-style dance hall. The new one will be more generic -- a restaurant with free music and a very small dance floor. Something people can probably find closer to their home -- why fight the traffic and parking to go to Spanish Springs?

My contention is that less people will be prone to go to the new KB's than the old one. It might gross less $$ per year than the old one. The redeeming factor, as far as the accountants are concerned, is the extra $$ the first floor retail space will bring in that the current KB's doesn't.
I would venture to say that those that really went to Katie Belles a lot to dance and enjoy the bands & music will continue to do so. They were the big supporters. Not the ones who take visiting friends & family there twice a year.

[Jayhawk]

Eastern, PanAm, TWA, Continental. No one flies them anymore because they are GONZO.

Everyone listens when EF Hutton speaks. Not anymore. Silenced. OUT OF BUSINESS.

Let's shop at Woolworth's or Monkey Wards. Nope - GONE.

I am actually typing this on my COMPAQ computer but WHEN it stops working, I can't replace it. COMPAQ is DONE.

Quick, grab your Poloroid camera and take a snapshot before KB's shuts the doors.

Hakuna matata.

:wave:

[BigbirdPhila]

I would venture to say that those that really went to Katie Belles a lot to dance and enjoy the bands & music will continue to do so. They were the big supporters.

The new small dance floor will not handle the big crowds. The Rocky & the Rollers rock & roll nights, the Tony D. ballroom nights, and the Lee Ann Noel & Redneck Country Club Band country nights. Those people will have to find a new place to dance.

[Bonny]

The new small dance floor will not handle the big crowds. The Rocky & the Rollers rock & roll nights, the Tony D. ballroom nights, and the Lee Ann Noel & Redneck Country Club Band country nights. Those people will have to find a new place to dance.
What is the size of the dance floor ?

[graciegirl]

The new small dance floor will not handle the big crowds. The Rocky & the Rollers rock & roll nights, the Tony D. ballroom nights, and the Lee Ann Noel & Redneck Country Club Band country nights. Those people will have to find a new place to dance.


Yes they will.

[graciegirl]

Eastern, PanAm, TWA, Continental. No one flies them anymore because they are GONZO.

Everyone listens when EF Hutton speaks. Not anymore. Silenced. OUT OF BUSINESS.

Let's shop at Woolworth's or Monkey Wards. Nope - GONE.

I am actually typing this on my COMPAQ computer but WHEN it stops working, I can't replace it. COMPAQ is DONE.

Quick, grab your Poloroid camera and take a snapshot before KB's shuts the doors.

Hakuna matata.

:wave:


Good words here.

[BigbirdPhila]

What is the size of the dance floor ?

In the artist's rendition that I saw, there is no dance floor. But I have talked to Tony D. and he says there will be a "small" dance floor.

[Bonny]

Oh, I thought you knew the size when you said it was a small dance floor.
I'm sure the dance floor will be fine. The Villages always does an A-1 job.

[tomwed]

My first impression 3 years ago was that the villages reminded me of Disney World. Each square had a theme. Katie Belles was like the Hoopie De Doo review. The grounds are immaculate and the flowers change seasonally. If you get to the squares very early in the morning there are leaf blowers making everything very neat and tidy. There are large crowds with a bit of excitement. There are golf carts which remind me of kiddie cars with some looking like sports cars and at least one looking like a fire truck and another a mack truck. Those are like the Disney rides.

That "look" was calculated and well executed. Restaurants can come and go, as well as gift shops but a private Hoopie De Doo review still makes me smile. I went there twice. I'm still too tired at night golfing and biking to go there. But it "felt good" knowing that when all I can do is see a dinner show or movie or cheap little concert, that will be here.

And it "felt good" to know, that's all. It's not a crises, the sky is not falling, not a deal breaker, or house value dropper and certainly not the end of the world as I know it. I'm not opposed to any kind of change.

[Sandtrap328]

Oh, I thought you knew the size when you said it was a small dance floor.
I'm sure the dance floor will be fine. The Villages always does an A-1 job.

Absolutely right, Bonnie.

Does anyone remember the foror over the re-doing of Spanish Springs a few years ago? Posters were sayng the "uneven" brick deck would cause so many falls and broken bones. That has not happened to my knowledge.

The Villages does it's modifications in a very good way and they always look good.

[Walt.]

Hard to believe this thread has created 26 pages. :popcorn: :)

If somebody mentions roping off seats at KB this thread could go to 100 pages!

[Bonny]

If somebody mentions roping off seats at KB this thread could go to 100 pages!
Just don't mention dog poop !!! :a20: :crap2:

[rhondac]

I have been reading this back and forth discussion and want to point out several things. I go to Katie Belles EVERY WEEK. EVERY WEEK. Do any of you? I have supported this place for over 10 years, consistantly, year-round, have you? Most of you have not. I will tell you all that I have met wonderful, amazing, happy, forever friends and couples as well as well behaved ADULT singles or widows with the same joy of dancing and talented bands that I have.....we are all unhappy....I have not met 1 person that likes this situation except for 2 immediate "FAMILY" FRIENDS or EMPLOYEES....... all I know is that Katie Belles DANCE HALL was our favorite thing to do.....Rocky, Cactus, UBRS, Justin Heet, were followed and always supported the employees by eating dinner while there!!! ...What if they take your softball fields or stop music on the squares, or "free golf"? Would any of you be upset?
So, if Katie Belles Dance Hall has not been on your agenda 50+times per year, for the past 10+ YEARS, your opinion and mine will be different. Why is your opinion more important than mine????? It was a gorgeous building in need of updates because of lack of maintenance....not a loved place of MANY to demolish. :rant-rave:

[graciegirl]

I have been reading this back and forth discussion and want to point out several things. I go to Katie Belles EVERY WEEK. EVERY WEEK. Do any of you? I have supported this place for over 10 years, consistantly, year-round, have you? Most of you have not. I will tell you all that I have met wonderful, amazing, happy, forever friends and couples as well as well behaved ADULT singles or widows with the same joy of dancing and talented bands that I have.....we are all unhappy....I have not met 1 person that likes this situation except for 2 immediate "FAMILY" FRIENDS or EMPLOYEES....... all I know is that Katie Belles DANCE HALL was our favorite thing to do.....Rocky, Cactus, UBRS, Justin Heet, were followed and always supported the employees by eating dinner while there!!! ...What if they take your softball fields or stop music on the squares, or "free golf"? Would any of you be upset?
So, if Katie Belles Dance Hall has not been on your agenda 50+times per year, for the past 10+ YEARS, your opinion and mine will be different. Why is your opinion more important than mine????? It was a gorgeous building in need of updates because of lack of maintenance....not a loved place of MANY to demolish. :rant-rave:

WHY do you think that they are changing it? Out of heartless lack of concern? Out of a need to make more money? Because it BADLY needs renovation? Because the Cattle Baron was NOT too hot anymore? Because it changed hands?

[NJblue]

My vote would be on b - the need to make more money.

[graciegirl]

My vote would be on b - the need to make more money.


Why do people want to make money when they go into business?

[graciegirl]

Katie Belles is a residents only/ guests perk. I think is disgusting that now that the Morse children are in charge the Villages is rapidly moving away from "Americas Friendliest Home Town". They are taking away all the things that make this a "Home Town". First it was the parades, (every home town celebrates with parades) that were removed. Then the parking at the polo grounds for golf carts was charged for instead of free. I understand that this is all because everything is going to private businesses, but the family is responsible for that too. It's becoming all about $$$ and not lifestyle. I appreciate the need for profit but there are limits. The Villages is selling their houses based on lifestlye and supposedly thats why they cost more than other senior developements but we are slowly losing the original vision.

WHAT do you base these statements on? They sold the entertainment department to the people who had run it for years before Gary Morse died. THAT is the reason for the parades change. Now the residents are handling the parades, nicely too.

Why is running in the black ugly?

You do know that the "Morse Children" are real people, still working, even though they have enough money for three lifetimes, keeping their force in jobs, making terribly huge decisions under great pressure and making good ones as far as I can see. I have never met them, but it seems they deserve more respect than they are getting from some residents opposed to large businesses being successful.

Your home is worth far more than it was when you bought it, I would wager and that is nice for you...and for me. AND the reason is that the Morse family is doing a lot of things right.

[Polar Bear]

Why do people want to make money when they go into business?

Because they're all evil, greedy profiteers! The only really good business owners are those who don't start their business to make money!! Okay...their business may not last long, but they're really good people. [emoji12]

[Tennisnut]

I heard someone once say " Greed is good" or maybe that wasn't the moral of the story?

[Bonny]

Because they're all evil, greedy profiteers! The only really good business owners are those who don't start their business to make money!! Okay...their business may not last long, but they're really good people. [emoji12]
:a20:

[Jayhawk]

As Navin R. Johnson so famously stated, "Ah, it's a Profit deal".

:jester:

[rhondac]

You mean the ho-ho's ?

Are you kidding me? You do know that EMPLOYEES of CITIZENS bank and other Villages EMPLOYEES have a DREAM CARD to go to this club. and MUCH of what you state is RUMOR, BIASED and FISHING for an argument! Never met the type of person you are referring to.......and do you get away with this baloney because of your question marks after every statement?? This is just wrong....my grandchildren frequent this dance hall.

[graciegirl]

Are you kidding me? You do know that EMPLOYEES of CITIZENS bank and other Villages EMPLOYEES have a DREAM CARD to go to this club. and MUCH of what you state is RUMOR, BIASED and FISHING for an argument! Never met the type of person you are referring to.......and do you get away with this baloney because of your question marks after every statement?? This is just wrong....my grandchildren frequent this dance hall.

It has been brought up on this forum before. You would have better knowledge of it than me as you are there a lot. I have seen some old guys there who were dancing real close with their very young friends, but..Perhaps they were engaged.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/i-have-no-idea-if-there-any-truth-20474/

[SandB]

We are new to The Villages so we do not have a long history with Katie Belle's but here is our perspective. The food at the cattle barons and Katie Belle's is mediocre at best and the establishment needs a thorough cleaning. Given its' location it has to be a very valuable commercial property. If it is not generating the profits for its' location then there must be a change. It appears to us that the developers are very astute and do things with a lot of class and prethought. So let's see what they bring forward. It just may be a real value to us all.

[rhondac]

You mean the ho-ho's ?

It has been brought up on this forum before. You would have better knowledge of it than me as you are there a lot. I have seen some old guys there who were dancing real close with their very young friends, but..Perhaps they were engaged.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/i-have-no-idea-if-there-any-truth-20474/
Perhaps they were engaged? Perhaps it isn't any of your business and you shouldn't judge. I understand why I left here.....BYE! :crap2:

[graciegirl]

Boy Howdy.

[Jayhawk]

Perhaps they were engaged? Perhaps it isn't any of your business and you shouldn't judge. I understand why I left here.....BYE! :crap2:

Just curious why you are still visiting / commenting on TOTV if you don't even like it here?

[DonH57]

I heard someone once say " Greed is good" or maybe that wasn't the moral of the story?

I believe it was said by Gordon Gecko in the movie" Wall Street" played by Mike Douglas.