banning outside buses from squares

[CFrance]

Would the $17 per person additional be charged if the pickup was at one if the local churches on or just off property? Several of us have suggested working with churches for parking on non church days as a viable option. Have you attempted to contact a church? If the $17 goes away, the club could donate $5 per car. Would or could be a win win.
I thought what he meant was the bus company that is authorized to pick people up on Villages property was going to charge $17 more per person than their normal bus company. In other words, the total cost of the TV company was much more.

[graciegirl]

I thought what he meant was the bus company that is authorized to pick people up on Villages property was going to charge $17 more per person than their normal bus company. In other words, the total cost of the TV company was much more.


They could be protecting the businesses they rent to.

[Villager Joyce]

I thought what he meant was the bus company that is authorized to pick people up on Villages property was going to charge $17 more per person than their normal bus company. In other words, the total cost of the TV company was much more.

Sorry. I'm in a carb coma. Had breakfast at Darrell's Diner at Pinellas. I will re-read the post after my nap. What a way to go. :thumbup:

[xNYer]

I feel the need to point out that the rec centres are owned by the district, and are actually private property, not"ours". District property, district rules. Just like the exec golf courses.

Many recreation center properties were purchased from the developer by the central districts. Tax free bonds were issued to purchase the properties using amenity money from all of us to fund the bond repayments.

The whole private property issues seems quite convoluted given that tax free bonds which must serve a public purpose are the funding mechanisms.
It would seem that clubs run by villagers that charter busses should have some say about the issue.

[graciegirl]

Many recreation center properties were purchased from the developer by the central districts. Tax free bonds were issued to purchase the properties using amenity money from all of us to fund the bond repayments.

The whole private property issues seems quite convoluted given that tax free bonds which must serve a public purpose are the funding mechanisms.
It would seem that clubs run by villagers that charter busses should have some say about the issue.

Not quite correct. And I am not a believer in the lawsuit stuff either.

[graciegirl]

YOU may think that, but I don't agree. I am guessing that they are establishing some kind of precedent to keep some kind of bus business from using our parking lots as public lots and advertising for outsiders to park here..

They have sold out all kinds of businesses including entertainment, transportation, The Lighthouse, Cane Garden, the restaurant where Panera is now,and Southern Lifestyles, the furniture store, keeping the buildings to rent to new businesses.

I am fully aware that the Morses are capitalists which I fully support, and in my opinion are astute business people, but getting into a niche business like tour buses just doesn't seem plausible.

I don't use tour buses regularly, and none of the people who I know well except for CFrance do...so I have to wonder just what percent of the population here do use them. I wouldn't think many, as I have never seen droves of people boarding a bus. Usually some club or another are begging you to go along so they can fill a bus.

There is a good reason why this is being done and I think it is for our good here in The Villages.

But I have been wrong before.

And I am sorry for those who are being inconvenienced by this decision. They obviously enjoyed this very much. And I may want to do it too someday and will rant about it not being convenient.
.

Bump

[OldGator]

I work with one of the "Banned Bus Companies" and would like to address a few facts. 1) We DO still pick up in The Villages. We have been asked to avoid Rec Centers, Downtown areas, and the Depots. No Problem. That still leaves many options, and no additional cost is added. 2) The Villages (Transportation) is receiving protection from outside companies operating in TV, and that is primarily what is driving the whole issue, IMO. They are opening up a "Day Trip Dept" to compete with AAA, Senior Adventures, Etc and have taken steps to take over those options The Villagers currently have. They have already gone out and bought a number of additional used Tour Buses to do what we are told we cannot do- load at the depots. Where do you think THEY will park? 3) As far as I am aware, when WE pick up anywhere in The Villages, it is for groups/clubs of Village residents. We have NEVER suggested to outside groups to come to The Villages and use depots, parking, or other loading areas within The Villages. When Stonecrest, Del Webb, Spruce Creek, etc want to load a bus, they always have us come to THEIR Rec Centers/Clubhouses for loading. 4) It has been suggested that we rent space in TV, to solve the problem, wrong. We are not allowed to rent space in The Villages, (Protection for Villages Transportation), and companies that DO rent spaces, are not allowed to use THEIR OWN parking spaces for parking if they are getting on an outside bus. Please spread the word- you still have a choice for now- If Parking alone were the issue, how does banning outside companies (your ability to shop for price and quality) and then adding MORE buses to TV fleet, solve the parking issue? Are you starting to see the REAL issue yet?

[skip0358]

I thought what he meant was the bus company that is authorized to pick people up on Villages property was going to charge $17 more per person than their normal bus company. In other words, the total cost of the TV company was much more.

You are correct.

[graciegirl]

I work with one of the "Banned Bus Companies" and would like to address a few facts. 1) We DO still pick up in The Villages. We have been asked to avoid Rec Centers, Downtown areas, and the Depots. No Problem. That still leaves many options, and no additional cost is added. 2) The Villages (Transportation) is receiving protection from outside companies operating in TV, and that is primarily what is driving the whole issue, IMO. They are opening up a "Day Trip Dept" to compete with AAA, Senior Adventures, Etc and have taken steps to take over those options The Villagers currently have. They have already gone out and bought a number of additional used Tour Buses to do what we are told we cannot do- load at the depots. Where do you think THEY will park? 3) As far as I am aware, when WE pick up anywhere in The Villages, it is for groups/clubs of Village residents. We have NEVER suggested to outside groups to come to The Villages and use depots, parking, or other loading areas within The Villages. When Stonecrest, Del Webb, Spruce Creek, etc want to load a bus, they always have us come to THEIR Rec Centers/Clubhouses for loading. 4) It has been suggested that we rent space in TV, to solve the problem, wrong. We are not allowed to rent space in The Villages, (Protection for Villages Transportation), and companies that DO rent spaces, are not allowed to use THEIR OWN parking spaces for parking if they are getting on an outside bus. Please spread the word- you still have a choice for now- If Parking alone were the issue, how does banning outside companies (your ability to shop for price and quality) and then adding MORE buses to TV fleet, solve the parking issue? Are you starting to see the REAL issue yet?


So your competition has a brick and mortar store front and rent it from the developer....for MONEY. Your company isn't allowed to rent a brick and mortar store front, because of competition clauses....but...your company can still pick up and have their clients park and pick them up, without the overhead cost of rent...so you can charge less?

Sounds like you are getting an advantage. If I was paying rent...I'd be complaining.

[Villager Joyce]

You are correct.

Looks like I misread the post. Bacon, eggs, hash browns and toast killed a couple brain cells. :22yikes: But it was darn good.

[OldGator]

Right! Until it is your Ox getting gored!

[graciegirl]

But using the cover of "Government" as the enforcement or telling others businesses in The Villages, if you don't use OUR carrier, you can lose your lease, is called "extortion".


You are saying that The Villages tells people who lease from them that they must use the bus services who lease from TV or they will break their lease?

Are you completely sure of what you are saying??? So that means the guy that owns a restaurant, if he booked a day tour with your bus company, that would be cause for The Villages to break their lease? That they are threatened with this??????


extortion
[ ikˈstôrSHən ]
NOUN
the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.
synonyms: blackmail · shakedown · exaction

[bimmertl]

But using the cover of "Government" as the enforcement or telling others businesses in The Villages, if you don't use OUR carrier, you can lose your lease, is called "extortion".

Actually, it's classic Morse. Restrict competition within the Villages in order to maximize his profits.

It's clear he doesn't believe in free enterprise, which lets competition within the market place determine who survives without government (developer) intervention. It's driven by greed!

[Polar Bear]

Actually, it's classic Morse. Restrict competition within the Villages in order to maximize his profits.

It's clear he doesn't believe in free enterprise, which lets competition within the market place determine who survives without government (developer) intervention. It's driven by greed!
I was involved in development for over 30 years. All developers restrict competition in their own developments. It's SOP. If they don't, they're crazy.
Your remark about not believing in free enterprise astounds me. This is a perfect example of free enterprise. Anybody is free to compete with TV and the Morses...by building their own development. But within their development, they are free to do what they (legally) choose.
And legally maximizing profits isn't greed. It's business...pretty much what free enterprise is all about.

[janmcn]

Many recreation center properties were purchased from the developer by the central districts. Tax free bonds were issued to purchase the properties using amenity money from all of us to fund the bond repayments.

The whole private property issues seems quite convoluted given that tax free bonds which must serve a public purpose are the funding mechanisms.
It would seem that clubs run by villagers that charter busses should have some say about the issue.


Only the recreation centers north of CR466 (plus Laurel Manor and Belvedere) were sold by the developer to the central districts. The tax free bond issue is the subject of the IRS investigation, which is now in its eighth year.

[JoMar]

I was involved in development for over 30 years. All developers restrict competition in their own developments. It's SOP. If they don't, they're crazy.
Your remark about not believing in free enterprise astounds me. This is a perfect example of free enterprise. Anybody is free to compete with TV and the Morses...by building their own development. But within their development, they are free to do what they (legally) choose.
And legally maximizing profits isn't greed. It's business...pretty much what free enterprise is all about.

Thanks for the response, bimmertl, while one of those that has no appreciation for what he has, continues to support those that live here but just don't get it. Anything that puts money in the pockets of others is greed, but anything that puts money in bimmertl's (and those that share his position) pockets is not greed. It still amazes me that people that bash the developer still live here....why? TV has rules and we knew that when we bought here, TV has a developer that invests in a commercial district that benefits the residents and we knew that, TV is an expensive place to live and we knew that. Yet bimmertl and those he supports and support him find it a horrible situation. Yet they stay.

[OldGator]

What I am telling you is that the implication was: if you load again behind your store, your lease may not be renewed! It is the residents of The Villages that are losing. They are trying to eliminate the option of shopping for the best deal for yourselves. This is like the developer saying- everyone can have a golf cart, or golf clubs, or Ice Cream Cone- as long as you buy it from us, or in this case, who we designate. But the big difference is, it isn't just the developer- it is the quasi-governemtal agencies that have been put in place. How long do you leave the "protectionist policies" in place. Villages Transportation is not an upstart business trying to get established in The Villages. It has been here since the beginning. But because they were not competative, they now move to ban the competion, who has also been here all along!

[graciegirl]

What I am telling you is that the implication was: if you load again behind your store, your lease may not be renewed! It is the residents of The Villages that are losing. They are trying to eliminate the option of shopping for the best deal for yourselves. This is like the developer saying- everyone can have a golf cart, or golf clubs, or Ice Cream Cone- as long as you buy it from us, or in this case, who we designate. But the big difference is, it isn't just the developer- it is the quasi-governemtal agencies that have been put in place. How long do you leave the "protectionist policies" in place. Villages Transportation is not an upstart business trying to get established in The Villages. It has been here since the beginning. But because they were not competative, they now move to ban the competion, who has also been here all along!

HUH? If you load people from behind WHAT store? Is The Villages Transportation your competition? It isn't owned any longer by The Villages. But back to what I asked. You don't pay rent, and you get to transport people from The Villages and you are complaining?

[graciegirl]

I was involved in development for over 30 years. All developers restrict competition in their own developments. It's SOP. If they don't, they're crazy.
Your remark about not believing in free enterprise astounds me. This is a perfect example of free enterprise. Anybody is free to compete with TV and the Morses...by building their own development. But within their development, they are free to do what they (legally) choose.
And legally maximizing profits isn't greed. It's business...pretty much what free enterprise is all about.

bump

[twoplanekid]

Returning to the original question, Ms. Tutt stated that the banning of outside busses was because of a lack of parking. Is this statement correct? Can’t space be found in a large city of over 100,000 to enable residents to park in their city? If the true purpose is to allow only approved companies to operate in the Villages, then there might be an issue of public versus private control of this outside of the 3 commercial CDDs.

We must be given the correct facts and information by public officials. If not provided by them then by whom?

[JoMar]

What I am telling you is that the implication was: if you load again behind your store, your lease may not be renewed! It is the residents of The Villages that are losing. They are trying to eliminate the option of shopping for the best deal for yourselves. This is like the developer saying- everyone can have a golf cart, or golf clubs, or Ice Cream Cone- as long as you buy it from us, or in this case, who we designate. But the big difference is, it isn't just the developer- it is the quasi-governemtal agencies that have been put in place. How long do you leave the "protectionist policies" in place. Villages Transportation is not an upstart business trying to get established in The Villages. It has been here since the beginning. But because they were not competative, they now move to ban the competion, who has also been here all along!

The competitive companies are still here, the bus companies can compete for your business and provide their service to you. I really enjoy the use of "protectionist policy" when it goes against what you want. The issue of buses isn't about competition, it's about where you pick up the bus and because they can't pick you up where you want to be picked up it's a "protectionist policy". I'm not sure what charter bus service you had where you came from but we drove to the bus company to catch our charters. They didn't come to us. What's interesting is that with all those policies in place businesses continue to move in here, services continue to be provided and they all continue to thrive. Again, it appears the majority that live here have no issues with how this place is run and managed. The minority will be the minority and they will be heard and hopefully, it ends there.

[outlaw]

If CDDs 1-4 are now resident run, and the developer sold the recreation centers in those CDDs, then why would those CDDs not be able to allow the buses to pick up at those particular recreation areas?
Yes, the developer is playing hardball in a monopolistic way with these small businesses. And yes, the developer probably has the right to do it (although, a formal complaint to the right government oversight agency regarding predatory/unfair business practices would be interesting). But if you think the developer is doing this FOR the residents, I've got a bridge to sell you.
Note I did not accuse the developer of being greedy.

[OldGator]

By your logic, people in The Villages should not be allowed to buy on Amazon, because someone in The Villages has a storefront business selling the same items! You cannot have pizza delivered to your home in The Villages, unless it comes from a Villages Merchant? Because we don't have a storefront IN The Villages, does not mean we operate rent free?

You have no idea how much money is paid to The Villages by this company in many forms! (Taxes, multiple house payments, donations, charity work, advertising, etc.)

It is like being told, you can have a golf cart, clubs, ice cream cone, if you buy them from the company store,. otherwise, it will not be permitted.

[outlaw]

By your logic, people in The Villages should not be allowed to buy on Amazon, because someone in The Villages has a storefront business selling the same items! You cannot have pizza delivered to your home in The Villages, unless it comes from a Villages Merchant? Because we don't have a storefront IN The Villages, does not mean we operate rent free?

You have no idea how much money is paid to The Villages by this company in many forms! (Taxes, multiple house payments, donations, charity work, advertising, etc.)

It is like being told, you can have a golf cart, clubs, ice cream cone, if you buy them from the company store,. otherwise, it will not be permitted.

Oh no!!!! Please don't give them any ideas. You do realize the developer owns the neighborhood mail box centers? I have a feeling we will be informed that, to relieve congestion at the mail centers for the benefit of all residents, please receive all Amazon packages off The Villages property.

[graciegirl]

By your logic, people in The Villages should not be allowed to buy on Amazon, because someone in The Villages has a storefront business selling the same items! You cannot have pizza delivered to your home in The Villages, unless it comes from a Villages Merchant? Because we don't have a storefront IN The Villages, does not mean we operate rent free?

You have no idea how much money is paid to The Villages by this company in many forms! (Taxes, multiple house payments, donations, charity work, advertising, etc.) What company?

It is like being told, you can have a golf cart, clubs, ice cream cone, if you buy them from the company store,. otherwise, it will not be permitted. None of this is true at all.


No. It isn't. Not at all. What is your beef? You can pick up your customers and you are grousing? You didn't answer behind what store.

[twoplanekid]

Returning to the original question, Ms. Tutt stated that the banning of outside busses was because of a lack of parking. Is this statement correct? Can’t space be found in a large city of over 100,000 to enable residents to park in their city? If the true purpose is to allow only approved companies to operate in the Villages, then there might be an issue of public versus private control of this outside of the 3 commercial CDDs.

We must be given the correct facts and information by public officials. If not provided by them then by whom?

????

[graciegirl]

????

I don't know kid. But they are Janet Tutt's parking lots to administer. And it looks like another tempest in a teapot.

If you want to run The Villages, start one of your own.

[twoplanekid]

Through her pronouncement, Janet Tutt is the one who changed what was the norm in The Villages. I will certainly ask my District 10 Board of Supervisors to look at this issue of bussing to see if a solution can be identified.

[OldGator]

None of this is true at all.


No. It isn't. Not at all. What is your beef? You can pick up your customers and you are grousing? You didn't answer behind what store.


I did not come one this site to "grouse". If you read my first post, I am simply saying- we ARE still picking up in The Villages. We HAVE come up with other locations, outside of the TownCenters, and we WILL contiue to compete for the business of the Clubs and Groups within The Villages by offering what we feel is superior service and equipment at a competative price. The narrative offered by others, is that we are BANNED from loading in The Villages. This disuades groups from calling. That is not true. Regarding my earlier statements, my friend, I stand by them. As this post will indicate I struggle to use the site because I don't come here often to "grouse". I note YOU have posted over 24,000 times? Nothing wrong with being politcally active, I repect that, but you sure do have a lot to say? You sure don't represent The Man?

Do not get me wrong, someone asked where do I come from? I was here when Spanish Springs was a watermelon field. We welcome competition, we just don't like one of our best customers after 13 years being told, play ball with us, or take your ball and leave-after 13 years. I am all for free enterprise, but something about that doesn't seem so free.

I have made many friends through this job and look forward to continuing to serve them. I just hate to see choice taken away from so many- We load anywhere a group, club, church, school, family invites us to come. Yes, we can load at one of three properties we have around The Villages, but have always wanted to provide the services our customers wanted. WE are not limited by The Villages- you are.

[xNYer]

I don't know kid. But they are Janet Tutt's parking lots to administer. And it looks like another tempest in a teapot.

If you want to run The Villages, start one of your own.

So who does Janet Tutt work for? They are Janet Tutt's parking lots?
Interesting point.

[graciegirl]

So who does Janet Tutt work for? They are Janet Tutt's parking lots?
Interesting point.

She was hired to be the person who make decisions for us in the capacity of an administrator

. So far so good. You want her job?

[DougB]

She was hired to be the person who make decisions for us in the capacity of an administrator

. So far so good. You want her job?

I might. What's it pay?