Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership

[Guest]

Does anyone on this forum know enough about this TTIP proposal that has the Presidents backing, Republican backing and Democratic disapproval ?

I tried to understand what little I could find but if someone would like to "show off" (just kidding) and explain this in laymen terms or suggest any links that might help.

Also, why all the secrecy surrounding this ?

Thanks to anyone who might help.

[Guest]

Te secrecy is only designed to cover up the back room deals that were made to get it passed.

These are our representatives who are serving and protecting us by doing things they damn well know we would be mightily upset about and therefore the secrecy.

Representatives of the people.....barfbarf

[Guest]

Does anyone on this forum know enough about this TTIP proposal that has the Presidents backing, Republican backing and Democratic disapproval ?

I tried to understand what little I could find but if someone would like to "show off" (just kidding) and explain this in laymen terms or suggest any links that might help.

Also, why all the secrecy surrounding this ?

Thanks to anyone who might help.


That's what's crazy ... a huge chunk of our economic future is riding on this and the details are classified?? WTF??

My instincts say this ... if Chamber of Commerce Republicans and Obama supports it ... then I oppose it, especially since there's no way to find out what the legislative content is.

I think, if enacted, it will destroy what's left of blue collar America btw ...

[Guest]

This secrecy amazes me. Maybe a good reason but I sure do not get it and thus far nobody on here can point to somewhere for an explanation.

Whatever you think of Julian Assange, he is on the case...

"WikiLeaks put a hit out on the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade deal Tuesday, offering $100,000 to anyone who turns over the chapters that have yet to be leaked.

The government-document exposing organization already published some chapters of the secret deal, but it wants the whole thing. It’s also using crowdfunding to raise the money to pay the bounty. As of around noon Tuesday, 60 people had pledged $23674.17 to reward those who leak “America’s most wanted secret.”

“The transparency clock has run out on the TPP. No more secrecy. No more excuses. Let’s open the TPP once and for all,” WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange said in a statement.

Opponents of the global deal argue that the White House shouldn’t be negotiating the terms behind closed doors with the other 11 Pacific Rim nations. Those critics, like Sens. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) and Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) say they have a right to ensure the trade agreement has adequate protections for workers and the environment.

Proponents argue its a debate so fragile that airing the specifics publicly would thwart progress. They say the chapters already published by WikiLeaks, ones on the environment and intellectual property, strained talks by inflaming interest groups."

WikiLeaks offers $100,000 for details of Obama’s trade deal - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/in-the-loop/wp/2015/06/02/wikileaks-offers-100000-for-details-of-obamas-trade-deal/?hpid=z2)

[Guest]

And the NSA gets scrutinized.....:1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Guest]

Thanks to the OP for starting this thread. I wish I had some helpful information, but I am as confused as the next person about this situation and am still looking for answers. However, I may be able to offer some "comic" relief. Check out the next to the last paragraph in this article -

Republicans Weren’t the Only Ones Criticizing Obama’s SOTU Address. Even Some on the Left Are Vowing To Fight This Proposal | TheBlaze.com (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/01/21/republicans-werent-the-only-ones-criticizing-obamas-sotu-address-even-some-on-the-left-are-vowing-to-fight-this-proposal/)

NOW she wants transparency and to know what's in the bill?? Hmmm...........well I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and say that maybe she has learned from past mistakes.

[Guest]

Thanks to the OP for starting this thread. I wish I had some helpful information, but I am as confused as the next person about this situation and am still looking for answers. However, I may be able to offer some "comic" relief. Check out the next to the last paragraph in this article -

Republicans Weren’t the Only Ones Criticizing Obama’s SOTU Address. Even Some on the Left Are Vowing To Fight This Proposal | TheBlaze.com (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/01/21/republicans-werent-the-only-ones-criticizing-obamas-sotu-address-even-some-on-the-left-are-vowing-to-fight-this-proposal/)

NOW she wants transparency and to know what's in the bill?? Hmmm...........well I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and say that maybe she has learned from past mistakes.

That paragraph does bring a wry smile to your face.

I read quite a bit and do not even understand any given reason for such secrecy. We sure are negotiating a few secret deals.

[Guest]

Te secrecy is only designed to cover up the back room deals that were made to get it passed.

These are our representatives who are serving and protecting us by doing things they damn well know we would be mightily upset about and therefore the secrecy.

Representatives of the people.....barfbarf

Bernie Sanders professes to be a democratic socialist - definition of

socialism - because I think the Kool-Aid is clouding some of the minds:

Full Definition of SOCIALISM


1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or

governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and

distribution of goods

2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private

property

b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are

owned and controlled by the state

3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and

communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay

according to work done

NO MORE FREEDOM!!!!

[Guest]

Try this one on for size. I never ever paid attention to those books about all the bad stuff that President Obama was going to do to our country, but I recall one about how he was going to implement engineering of our neighborhoods but insuring diversity in where you live.

"The Obama administration is moving forward with regulations designed to help diversify America’s wealthier neighborhoods, drawing fire from critics who decry the proposal as executive overreach in search of an “unrealistic utopia.”

He used to joke about this stuff, or at least I thought he was..remember Joe the Plumber.

This is real engineering of neighborhoods which in effect is also the voting in neighborhoods.

We will hear cries of racist if you oppose this, but I consider it EXTREME RACISM for the government to do this.

"“American citizens and communities should be free to choose where they would like to live and not be subject to federal neighborhood engineering at the behest of an overreaching federal government,” said Gosar, who is leading an effort in the House to block the regulations."

"To qualify for certain funds under the regulations, cities would be required to examine patterns of segregation in neighborhoods and develop plans to address it. Those that don’t could see the funds they use to improve blighted neighborhoods disappear, critics of the rule say."

Obama making bid to diversify wealthy neighborhoods | TheHill (http://thehill.com/regulation/244620-obamas-bid-to-diversify-wealthy-neighborhoods)

"“Instead of living with neighbors you like and choose, this breaks up the core fabric of how we start to look at communities,” Gosar said. “That just brings unease to everyone in that area.”

“People have to feel comfortable where they live,” he added. “If I don’t feel comfortable in my own backyard, where do I feel comfortable?”

Critics of the rule say it would allow HUD to assert authority over local zoning laws. The agency could dictate what types of homes are built where and who can live in those homes, said Gosar, who believes local communities should make those decisions for themselves rather than relying on the federal government."

Perhaps I am seeing things that are not there, but this, to me, has some very serious consequences.

I added it here as this thread takes a turn to socialism.

[Guest]

Try this one on for size. I never ever paid attention to those books about all the bad stuff that President Obama was going to do to our country, but I recall one about how he was going to implement engineering of our neighborhoods but insuring diversity in where you live.

"The Obama administration is moving forward with regulations designed to help diversify America’s wealthier neighborhoods, drawing fire from critics who decry the proposal as executive overreach in search of an “unrealistic utopia.”

He used to joke about this stuff, or at least I thought he was..remember Joe the Plumber.

This is real engineering of neighborhoods which in effect is also the voting in neighborhoods.

We will hear cries of racist if you oppose this, but I consider it EXTREME RACISM for the government to do this.

"“American citizens and communities should be free to choose where they would like to live and not be subject to federal neighborhood engineering at the behest of an overreaching federal government,” said Gosar, who is leading an effort in the House to block the regulations."

"To qualify for certain funds under the regulations, cities would be required to examine patterns of segregation in neighborhoods and develop plans to address it. Those that don’t could see the funds they use to improve blighted neighborhoods disappear, critics of the rule say."

Obama making bid to diversify wealthy neighborhoods | TheHill (http://thehill.com/regulation/244620-obamas-bid-to-diversify-wealthy-neighborhoods)

"“Instead of living with neighbors you like and choose, this breaks up the core fabric of how we start to look at communities,” Gosar said. “That just brings unease to everyone in that area.”

“People have to feel comfortable where they live,” he added. “If I don’t feel comfortable in my own backyard, where do I feel comfortable?”

Critics of the rule say it would allow HUD to assert authority over local zoning laws. The agency could dictate what types of homes are built where and who can live in those homes, said Gosar, who believes local communities should make those decisions for themselves rather than relying on the federal government."

Perhaps I am seeing things that are not there, but this, to me, has some very serious consequences.

I added it here as this thread takes a turn to socialism.

Yet additional evidence of what has been asserted on this board multiple times ... liberalism is a genuine mental disorder

[Guest]

More on this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnyPsKw_gak

[Guest]

More information about the fast track trade authority. It becomes more evident why it is being cloaked in secrecy as we learn more:

https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2015/06/obamatrade-relaxes-visa-process-for-pakistan

If actions taken by Obama do not appear to have the willl and the good of America and it's people as a basis, then what is the agenda?

[Guest]

Call Call

Grassroots, Unions Threaten Dems With Defeat Over Trade Support (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/10/fast-track-trade-2016_n_7555966.html)

[Guest]

Don't know anything about this either but what I do know is Anything this President is for, I'm Against knowing his distaste for America and how his goal is to transform our country. So glad to see he failed once again

[Guest]

Don't know anything about this either but what I do know is Anything this President is for, I'm Against knowing his distaste for America and how his goal is to transform our country. So glad to see he failed once again

This is truly the most ignorant post I have seen on TOTV. Exactly, what is President Obama trying to transform our country into? You are so ignorant that even if you know nothing about the subject, you are glad the President failed? Pure stupidity.

You must be a card carrying member of The Villages Tea Party.

[Guest]

This is truly the most ignorant post I have seen on TOTV. Exactly, what is President Obama trying to transform our country into? You are so ignorant that even if you know nothing about the subject, you are glad the President failed? Pure stupidity.

You must be a card carrying member of The Villages Tea Party.

If this is the "most ignorant post" that you have seen on here, PLEASE re read some of the troll responses. They will knock this post way out of the top 100.

BUT, he brings a lot on himself...this is NOT from the Tea Party but one of the Democrats in congress after President Obama made one of his infrequent visits there on this subject.

""The President tried to both guilt people and impugn their integrity. I was insulted," Rep. Peter Defazio, D-Oregon, told reporters after the meeting."

Democrats reject Obama's key trade proposal in House vote - CNNPolitics.com (http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/12/politics/white-house-tpp-trade-deal-congress/)

You see this kind of attitude attributed to the WH every time he needs to go and convince someone of anything.

In addition on another thread, we find the new HUD rule, whispered about in 2013 and now it appears may become a reality....

Neighborhood engineering in essence....

"To qualify for certain funds under the regulations, cities would be required to examine patterns of segregation in neighborhoods and develop plans to address it. Those that don’t could see the funds they use to improve blighted neighborhoods disappear, critics of the rule say."

"The regulations would use grant money as an incentive for communities to build affordable housing in more affluent areas while also taking steps to upgrade poorer areas with better schools, parks, libraries, grocery stores and transportation routes as part of a gentrification of those communities."

Obama making bid to diversify wealthy neighborhoods | TheHill (http://thehill.com/regulation/244620-obamas-bid-to-diversify-wealthy-neighborhoods)

Honestly I have always ignored the Obama conspiracy books written, but understand this was in a book about his plans for redistribution of wealth which while I have ignored, he....the President...is getting my attention with some of his moves or lack of moves.

He is scaring people right now. His inaction against all advice...his actions that seem to crystalize what people said he would do. It is a bit eye catching.

The sheer mention of the Tea Party in your post says a lot. He, and other have successfully blamed this small group for just about everything. The biggest impediment the last years as been Harry Reid, who by the way, acted on the push of the President.

If you read the post on the history of what we face in the ME, that alone should give you pause.

[Guest]

This is truly the most ignorant post I have seen on TOTV. Exactly, what is President Obama trying to transform our country into? You are so ignorant that even if you know nothing about the subject, you are glad the President failed? Pure stupidity.

You must be a card carrying member of The Villages Tea Party.

Talk about ignorance ... you are clearly the epitome of projection :)

Regarding the bill's failure today, since that happened ONLY because of Nancy Pelosi's opposition, does that mean you will be mailing her a Tea Party ID card?

[Guest]

If this is the "most ignorant post" that you have seen on here, PLEASE re read some of the troll responses. They will knock this post way out of the top 100.

BUT, he brings a lot on himself...this is NOT from the Tea Party but one of the Democrats in congress after President Obama made one of his infrequent visits there on this subject.

""The President tried to both guilt people and impugn their integrity. I was insulted," Rep. Peter Defazio, D-Oregon, told reporters after the meeting."

Democrats reject Obama's key trade proposal in House vote - CNNPolitics.com (http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/12/politics/white-house-tpp-trade-deal-congress/)

You see this kind of attitude attributed to the WH every time he needs to go and convince someone of anything.

In addition on another thread, we find the new HUD rule, whispered about in 2013 and now it appears may become a reality....

Neighborhood engineering in essence....

"To qualify for certain funds under the regulations, cities would be required to examine patterns of segregation in neighborhoods and develop plans to address it. Those that don’t could see the funds they use to improve blighted neighborhoods disappear, critics of the rule say."

"The regulations would use grant money as an incentive for communities to build affordable housing in more affluent areas while also taking steps to upgrade poorer areas with better schools, parks, libraries, grocery stores and transportation routes as part of a gentrification of those communities."

Obama making bid to diversify wealthy neighborhoods | TheHill (http://thehill.com/regulation/244620-obamas-bid-to-diversify-wealthy-neighborhoods)

Honestly I have always ignored the Obama conspiracy books written, but understand this was in a book about his plans for redistribution of wealth which while I have ignored, he....the President...is getting my attention with some of his moves or lack of moves.

He is scaring people right now. His inaction against all advice...his actions that seem to crystalize what people said he would do. It is a bit eye catching.

The sheer mention of the Tea Party in your post says a lot. He, and other have successfully blamed this small group for just about everything. The biggest impediment the last years as been Harry Reid, who by the way, acted on the push of the President.

If you read the post on the history of what we face in the ME, that alone should give you pause.

While it's clear Obama has always been a closet commie, he has been stepping out a lot more lately and showing us his true leaning. However, given his push for TPP, apparently he also wants to be crony capitalist at the same time?

[Guest]

Talk about ignorance ... you are clearly the epitome of projection :)

Regarding the bill's failure today, since that happened ONLY because of Nancy Pelosi's opposition, does that mean you will be mailing her a Tea Party ID card?

There is at least one of the trolls who will use that Tea Party phrase as a catch all. He has no idea of what happens or what involvement that caucus may have had but it makes him feel good to use that term as a blanket for anything. We should start referring to some of the Democratic caucus's in kind.

But, he will have that response to anything and everything. Whether it be race, politics or whatever.

Interesting to see this quote used in the news today...

" House progressives may have just had their tea-party moment.

They went toe-to-toe Friday with their own president, the business community, and moderates of all stripes—and they won big.

In overwhelming numbers, Democrats torpedoed a bill that would have moved President Obama closer to the landmark trade deal he's been seeking. And they did so hours after he visited Capitol Hill to make a personal appeal to their caucus."

The Democrats' Tea-Party Moment - NationalJournal.com (http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/democrats-tea-party-moment-20150612)

[Guest]

There is at least one of the trolls who will use that Tea Party phrase as a catch all. He has no idea of what happens or what involvement that caucus may have had but it makes him feel good to use that term as a blanket for anything. We should start referring to some of the Democratic caucus's in kind.

But, he will have that response to anything and everything. Whether it be race, politics or whatever.

Interesting to see this quote used in the news today...

" House progressives may have just had their tea-party moment.

They went toe-to-toe Friday with their own president, the business community, and moderates of all stripes—and they won big.

In overwhelming numbers, Democrats torpedoed a bill that would have moved President Obama closer to the landmark trade deal he's been seeking. And they did so hours after he visited Capitol Hill to make a personal appeal to their caucus."

The Democrats' Tea-Party Moment - NationalJournal.com (http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/democrats-tea-party-moment-20150612)

Excellent point ... now, in effect, we have a Left wing Tea Party (ie Socialist) and a Right wing Tea Party (ie Conservative)

[Guest]

Talk about ignorance ... you are clearly the epitome of projection :)

Regarding the bill's failure today, since that happened ONLY because of Nancy Pelosi's opposition, does that mean you will be mailing her a Tea Party ID card?

You do not have to be in favor of every measure the President puts forward. Just have a valid reason for disliking it and not "if Obama wants it, I am against it".

Mrs. Pelosi did not believe this was a good bill so she rallied support to vote it down. Nothing wrong with that.

The "I hope Obama fails" attitude dates back to Rush Limbaugh who is dead from the neck up. If you fall into his camp, you also are a meathead. Yes, that goes for all Tea Ba--ers, too.

[Guest]

Excellent point ... now, in effect, we have a Left wing Tea Party (ie Socialist) and a Right wing Tea Party (ie Conservative)

Actually, I think there are more caucus's within the Democratic party than within the Republican party.

The Black Caucus, for example, was supposed to weigh in heavy on this one but I have not heard how they voted on this bill but they sure were wooed.

By the way, the Black Caucus has 45 members, and that Tea Party which everyone fears does not even caucus any longer and have less than 40 past members in congress. They represent an ideaology of less spending and thus if you oppose big spending, you get tagged, even though that is not true.

But to your point, the largest caucus in the Democratic party is the Progressive caucus which numbers at last count at 69.

[Guest]

Actually, I think there are more caucus's within the Democratic party than within the Republican party.

The Black Caucus, for example, was supposed to weigh in heavy on this one but I have not heard how they voted on this bill but they sure were wooed.

By the way, the Black Caucus has 45 members, and that Tea Party which everyone fears does not even caucus any longer and have less than 40 past members in congress. They represent an ideaology of less spending and thus if you oppose big spending, you get tagged, even though that is not true.

But to your point, the largest caucus in the Democratic party is the Progressive caucus which numbers at last count at 69.n

...and how many Republicans are in the Regressive Caucus? :popcorn:

[Guest]

n

...and how many Republicans are in the Regressive Caucus? :popcorn:

The same as the democrats!

[Guest]

Try this one on for size. I never ever paid attention to those books about all the bad stuff that President Obama was going to do to our country, but I recall one about how he was going to implement engineering of our neighborhoods but insuring diversity in where you live.

"The Obama administration is moving forward with regulations designed to help diversify America’s wealthier neighborhoods, drawing fire from critics who decry the proposal as executive overreach in search of an “unrealistic utopia.”

He used to joke about this stuff, or at least I thought he was..remember Joe the Plumber.

This is real engineering of neighborhoods which in effect is also the voting in neighborhoods.

We will hear cries of racist if you oppose this, but I consider it EXTREME RACISM for the government to do this.

"“American citizens and communities should be free to choose where they would like to live and not be subject to federal neighborhood engineering at the behest of an overreaching federal government,” said Gosar, who is leading an effort in the House to block the regulations."

"To qualify for certain funds under the regulations, cities would be required to examine patterns of segregation in neighborhoods and develop plans to address it. Those that don’t could see the funds they use to improve blighted neighborhoods disappear, critics of the rule say."

Obama making bid to diversify wealthy neighborhoods | TheHill (http://thehill.com/regulation/244620-obamas-bid-to-diversify-wealthy-neighborhoods)

"“Instead of living with neighbors you like and choose, this breaks up the core fabric of how we start to look at communities,” Gosar said. “That just brings unease to everyone in that area.”

“People have to feel comfortable where they live,” he added. “If I don’t feel comfortable in my own backyard, where do I feel comfortable?”

Critics of the rule say it would allow HUD to assert authority over local zoning laws. The agency could dictate what types of homes are built where and who can live in those homes, said Gosar, who believes local communities should make those decisions for themselves rather than relying on the federal government."

Perhaps I am seeing things that are not there, but this, to me, has some very serious consequences.

I added it here as this thread takes a turn to socialism.

You were the first to deviate from the TPP discussion to Obama neighborhood engineering edict . I'll offer my response to it first. Obama's suggestion is not new. In the 1970's-80's Memphis Tennessee implemented such a plan. I know because i lived there. I know because I bought an expensive home in a nice neighborhood only to discover that the city was building much cheaper homes for purposes of integration. The result was isolated neighborhoods, people who purchased but really couldn't afford their properties and didn't know how to maintain them. Great tension in the neighborhoods, schools community. I had neighbors who moved 3-4 times in this town just because of the attempts made by government.

In fairness I had been in neighborhoods in Memphis where the main population was black and they had an almost artistic bend to their yards immaculate homes ...and that is the issue those good neighborhoods thrived because the people worked their way to prosperity and cherished their success and assets vis a vis people who ere not ready emotionally or financial .

As toTPP competitive/comparative advantage is a good thing when it comes to trade. Its obvious unions and those politicians who rely on unions to get re-elected to oppose this bill because unions will no longer have a monopoly on such trade and actually have to compete. In the long run trade is a good thing if it is applied on a level play field. Look at what foreign competition did in the auto industry.

I am conflicted when it comes to private sector unions. On the one hand I do not like ti see say the longshoremen close our ports because they want more and more of whatever they can extort without any corresponding increase in productivity efficiency , etc. However I do believe we are entitled to the prevailing market wage.

Of greater concern are public unions because politicians are the ones negotiating and they kowtow to unions in exchange for votes. Many cities are under the yoke of union benefits that are creating unfunded pension and benefit plans. Its gotten way out of hand and if not corrected taxpayers are going to on the hook for a massive bailout for some cities and states 40% or more of the budget goes to unions. And not least forget that public union workers incompetence is no basis for firing them

[Guest]

The only thing I can figure is these trade agreements are just one more closer step to one world government.

[Guest]

Until and if we ever get to see them, the benefits and benefactors of the agreements.

What is the current status?
How does the agreement make it better?
What improvements does the agreement bring?

Until then all we have is political, media, partisan and special interest mumbo jumbo.....the usual.