Politics showing it's ugly face in striping decision?

[billethkid]

inn this mornings dot com news survey 60% of residents choose let the paths alone.
The chairman of the PAW said he is keeping his options open.
The representative of CDD 5 is in favor of moving forward despite the voices of residents.

I guess we will soon find out if those who are supposed to represent the residents.......in fact do so ..."or not.

I dislike whenever a representative exhibits behavior that infers they know better than the majority they represent.

I strongly suggest residents start writing their representative and let their feelings be known.

Let us not have a politically influenced decision spend our funds.

[Kevin and Luci]

I agree, where do we find a list of addresses for thes folks?

[vette]

[QUOTE=billethkid;1088518]inn this mornings dot com news survey 60% of residents choose let the paths alone.

I guess we will soon find out if those who are supposed to represent the residents.......in fact do so ..."or not.

I dislike whenever a representative exhibits behavior that infers they know better than the majority they represent." :clap2:

While I'm not a big fan of polls (easily manipulated) I do agree that a majority of people I know prefer no action with the paths. AND I completely agree with your comments regarding representatives that DO NOT represent... Unfortunately often a silent majority is overlooked and overridden by a vocal minority; so in addition to just writing your rep I also suggest we start showing up at their meetings to let them know face to face how we feel.

[graciegirl]

inn this mornings dot com news survey 60% of residents choose let the paths alone.
The chairman of the PAW said he is keeping his options open.
The representative of CDD 5 is in favor of moving forward despite the voices of residents.

I guess we will soon find out if those who are supposed to represent the residents.......in fact do so ..."or not.

I dislike whenever a representative exhibits behavior that infers they know better than the majority they represent.

I strongly suggest residents start writing their representative and let their feelings be known.

Let us not have a politically influenced decision spend our funds.



Excellent idea. Does anyone have an email address?

[dbussone]

Excellent idea. Does anyone have an email address?

I have not been able to find one location noting all members of the PWAC. However the URL that follows will allow you to click on your district and the email addresses of all your district supervisors. VCDD Your Community District (http://www.districtgov.org/yourdistrict/index.aspx)

Why not let all your supervisors know how you feel?

[billethkid]

In the past I have seen a listing Of all representatives contact info, but do not remember where.
If someone knows or finds out please post.
I am traveling and unable to pursue as I usually would.

There is always the phone book.

In the dot com news this morning I wish they would have listed number of respondents.

[Villageswimmer]

I have not been able to find one location noting all members of the PWAC. However the URL that follows will allow you to click on your district and the email addresses of all your district supervisors. VCDD Your Community District (http://www.districtgov.org/yourdistrict/index.aspx)

Why not let all your supervisors know how you feel?

Thanks for your post. Just sent our email.

[Mleeja]

I do not see this as a political question. The question is "Do the multi-modal paths need to have edge striping? If the answer is Yes, then what is the best and most cost effective method to achieve this goal.

The district representatives will vote on how they believe will best meet the needs of our community. Us as residents, need to let our representative know our position. If we do not do this, or go to the meeting, then we forfet our right to "bitch" about it on this site on any other. It is not political. It is about the safety of the community and making our voice heard.

[billethkid]

My post was not advocating the question of the safety being political. Not one bit.
My post is 100% aimed at what appears to be some waffeling and some taking action "despite" residents input.

It is a call to action to get residents to let their representatives do the resident's bidding. The representatives should in no way act contrary to or "despite" residents" input.

I have sent an email to the dot com new suggesting they could perform a service to us by advising how to contact the respective representatives in TV as well as list their contact information.

[Madelaine Amee]

My post was not advocating the question of the safety being political. Not one bit.
My post is 100% aimed at what appears to be some waffeling and some taking action "despite" residents input.

It is a call to action to get residents to let their representatives do the resident's bidding. The representatives should in no way act contrary to or "despite" residents" input.

I have sent an email to the dot com new suggesting they could perform a service to us by advising how to contact the respective representatives in TV as well as list their contact information.

You are assuming that "the residents" of TV as a whole, have contributed to the poll. IMHO very few residents are in the least bit interested in the striping and just want to go on their merry way having fun, fun, fun and let someone else decide what is right for TV. For instance, I know of no one in my circle, other than me, who has the slightest interest in this chat room, and as for the online newspaper, I think even less people care or know about that. I think you are working on the assumption that this chat line and the dot.com newspaper are major players in TV and I think that is far from the truth.

I will add, that the time to worry about your representatives is before they get elected and not after the fact! How many people really have any interest in who is running for election in their particular Village. I think it comes down to the same ol' same ol' - let someone else do it!

[Bogie Shooter]

My post was not advocating the question of the safety being political. Not one bit.
My post is 100% aimed at what appears to be some waffeling and some taking action "despite" residents input.

It is a call to action to get residents to let their representatives do the resident's bidding. The representatives should in no way act contrary to or "despite" residents" input.

I have sent an email to the dot com new suggesting they could perform a service to us by advising how to contact the respective representatives in TV as well as list their contact information.

All their emails and phone numbers are on Village Community Development Districts (http://www.districtgov.org).
PROJECT WIDE ADVISORY COMMITTEE
Representatives:
District 5: Chuck Wildzunas, Jerry Knoll (Alternate)
District 6: Peter Moeller
District 7: Ron Ruggeri, Jerry Vicenti (Alternate)
District 8: Dennis Hayes
District 9: Steve Printz, Diane Spencer (Alternate)
District 10: Donald Wiley, Tim Sennett (Alternate)

[justjim]

You are assuming that "the residents" of TV as a whole, have contributed to the poll. IMHO very few residents are in the least bit interested in the striping and just want to go on their merry way having fun, fun, fun and let someone else decide what is right for TV. For instance, I know of no one in my circle, other than me, who has the slightest interest in this chat room, and as for the online newspaper, I think even less people care or know about that. I think you are working on the assumption that this chat line and the dot.com newspaper are major players in TV and I think that is far from the truth.

I will add, that the time to worry about your representatives is before they get elected and not after the fact! How many people really have any interest in who is running for election in their particular Village. I think it comes down to the same ol' same ol' - let someone else do it!


You make some good points. This issue regarding the MMP'S has become more of an emotional issue than political IMHO.

The online survey is far from a "valid" survey but not entirely useless. Remember when the cost ($300,000 plus) was mentioned was when residents started their "push" to drop the idea of side stripping the paths. Money is a big issue and can get the emotions going very quickly.

It's probably true---most TV residents could care less about the whole issue.

[blueash]

I buy insurance for lots of things. It is unlikely my house will burn down or my car be in an accident. But I pay over a thousand a year to protect those items, just in case. I believe that it is difficult to see the margins of the paths in the dark, especially in the rain or when an oncoming car or cart causes my pupils to constrict thus reducing my night vision. There is no question that having a bright marker on the margins of the path will enhance my ability to determine the curves of the path. Will it actually reduce accidents? No data because only a place like TV could produce such data. Is it worth $7 a year for a margin of safety, I think so. Anyone who claims that visibility is good on the paths is simply not being honest. This is 2 cents a day per household.

[Radioman41]

The biggest problem I have at night is carts whose headlights shine directly in my eyes. Markings would be helpful on the curves. I'm not sure they would help much on the straight aways.

[rosygail]

I think that something that will improve safety of traveling by golf cart is a good thing. The expense is not burdensome. As we age our eyesight isn't what it once was. Edge striping will help keep us "on the path".

I think that the reps are taking into account that the people who are against any proposition are always the most vocal. Those in favor or undecided usually don't voice their positions.

I am not clear on why so many are against the striping. Is it the cost? Broken down by household it can't be that much! How much is it worth to have fewer accidents caused by going off the path?

[NavyNJ]

I dug this info out of a couple of different sources and combined it into the following list, should anyone have interest in communicating over the weekend with their District's PWAC Rep. I suppose the same info could be gathered for Dist. 1-4. This should be a very interesting meeting on Monday - wish I could be down at the Savannah Center instead of NJ!!

Peter Moeller - Chairman (District 6) peter.moeller@districtgov.org, 352-751-4117
Ron Ruggeri - Vice Chairman (District 7) ron.ruggieri@districtgov.org, 352-751-2562
Chuck Wildzunas - Committee Member (District 5) chuck.wildzunas@districtgov.org , 352-753-3703
Dennis Hayes - Committee Member (District 8) dennis.hayes@districtgov.org, 352-633-0750
Steve Printz - Committee Member (District 9) steve.printz@districtgov.org, 641-780-6388
Don Wiley - Committee Member (District 10) donald.wiley@districtgov.org, 813-476-5177

District Board Email: DistXBoard@districtgov.org (X = District Number 1-10)

[cologal]

I'm of the yes votes in the poll..... The cart paths and lanes are dangerous. I had a cart rollover during an accident when a cart turned right in front of me.
So I spent several hundred dollars to "light up" my cart hoping to make myself more visible. I later added LED lights wrapped around the roof and more lights front and rear. After all that I was cut off again by someone trying to make a tee time at Lopez....She only reacted to my presence when she heard the tire squeal.

Anything to make the paths easier to see is good by me!!!

[goodtimesintv]

Anyone who claims that visibility is good on the paths is simply not being honest. This is 2 cents a day per household.

I agree completely except I think opponents to marking the path margins are "unknowing" of the dangers at curves/turns because they are apparently in bed before dark.

The danger is clear to anyone with good vision who actually drives the cart paths after dark.

[NavyNJ]

I'm of the yes votes in the poll..... The cart paths and lanes are dangerous. I had a cart rollover during an accident when a cart turned right in front of me.
So I spent several hundred dollars to "light up" my cart hoping to make myself more visible. I later added LED lights wrapped around the roof and more lights front and rear. After all that I was cut off again by someone trying to make a tee time at Lopez....She only reacted to my presence when she heard the tire squeal.

Anything to make the paths easier to see is good by me!!!

Based on your descriptions of those two events.......NEITHER would have been averted or avoided with striping - of any kind - center or side. The 100's of dollars you spent on lighting up your cart would only be added to by the 1,000's of dollars of striping - with the same result!

[rustyp]

interesting - perhaps the silent majority is trying to speak. Don't be afraid of bullies.

[NavyNJ]

I agree completely except I think opponents to marking the path margins are "unknowing" of the dangers at curves/turns because they are apparently in bed before dark.

The danger is clear to anyone with good vision who actually drives the cart paths after dark.

Well, then why haven't the PWAC and ACC and other's involved in this fiasco come forward with a limited, specific proposal to line or mark just those specific areas of concern (curves/turns), instead of the entire 84 mi. (42 mi x 2 sides) of paths?? I've been on the paths during day/night, rain/sun/fog, and have never had a situation that "moderating speed" did not alleviate - period. Stripes, in any location, would not have helped had I pressed on at max. speed! Plus, add to that the totally negative (and I dare anyone to try and make the case otherwise!) aesthetic effect of adding more striping to the existing main roadway environment, and stripes are simply incongruous to what The Villages imagery is all about.

In fact, I'd be willing to bet (maybe a beer or two!) that should someone endeavor to develop and take a survey using only these two topics, they'd find that:

a) Those who are in favor of any kind of continuous/complete striping of all TV Multi-Modal Paths and most likely to also be b) in favor and proponents of all manor of lawn ornaments/garden gnomes!! :)

[Barefoot]

.... the URL that follows will allow you to click on your district and the email addresses of all your district supervisors. VCDD Your Community District (http://www.districtgov.org/yourdistrict/index.aspx)Why not let all your supervisors know how you feel?
Thanks for the info - emails sent.

[dbussone]

I'm not in favor of the striping expenditure- no one including the engineers has come up with any data suggesting any improvement in safety on the paths. Some of us can't get to the various meetings where these issues are discussed, so the fact that I did not attend one does not negate my right to speak out on the issue. And for those who say "it's only 2 cents a day", 2 cents here and 2 cents there will add up sooner rather than later. I Ieft Taxachusetts years ago to get away from the tax and spend profligates.

[Chi-Town]

Once again I must comment on how nice the reflectors south of 466 are. They light up brightly at night and thump loudly (so I've been told) when you run over them. And they are placed where you need them. If that's all we get I can't complain.

[newguyintv]

inn this mornings dot com news survey 60% of residents choose let the paths alone.
The chairman of the PAW said he is keeping his options open.
The representative of CDD 5 is in favor of moving forward despite the voices of residents.

I guess we will soon find out if those who are supposed to represent the residents.......in fact do so ..."or not.

I dislike whenever a representative exhibits behavior that infers they know better than the majority they represent.

I strongly suggest residents start writing their representative and let their feelings be known.

Let us not have a politically influenced decision spend our funds.

The "Voice of the Residents"? or just the voice of a small vocal minority who have little else to do but believe this cost will them bankrupt them. The cart paths would be safer with striping, sides and middle so stop worrying about a few bucks that the politicians will manage to **** away on something else anyway.

[golfing eagles]

"I do not see this as a political question. The question is "Do the multi-modal paths need to have edge striping?"

Do they? I don't know. But who gets to decide if not the will of the majority of the people?
Those elected to "represent" them?
This is the age old dilemma of a representative democracy.

[blueash]

Perhaps I needed to be clearer when I wrote about curves on the paths. Almost none of the paths have significant straight aways. There are what seem to be decorative arcs and of course the islands around which we divert. So it not just the 90 degree curves for tunnels or street crossings. Additionally this week the landscape company which was applying straw to the beddings along the path was unable to complete the work in a single day. So bundles of straw were left intruding into the paths. Very difficult to see at night, but an interruption in the stripe would be visible.

[outlaw]

I thought it was interesting that the online paper's article on this issue shows a picture of a cart traveling down the path, and the cart was either on or over the center of the two-way path. Strong argument for a center line.

[The Chipster]

I have read that there are 110,000 people here in the Villages. Thus a $330,000 capital improvement project which would be a great safety improvement for all of us would only cost about $3.30 per person. I can't understand why so many people are so upset about this. Seems like a no brainier.

[Mleeja]

Well, then why haven't the PWAC and ACC and other's involved in this fiasco come forward with a limited, specific proposal to line or mark just those specific areas of concern (curves/turns), instead of the entire 84 mi. (42 mi x 2 sides) of paths?? I've been on the paths during day/night, rain/sun/fog, and have never had a situation that "moderating speed" did not alleviate - period. Stripes, in any location, would not have helped had I pressed on at max. speed! Plus, add to that the totally negative (and I dare anyone to try and make the case otherwise!) aesthetic effect of adding more striping to the existing main roadway environment, and stripes are simply incongruous to what The Villages imagery is all about.

In fact, I'd be willing to bet (maybe a beer or two!) that should someone endeavor to develop and take a survey using only these two topics, they'd find that:

a) Those who are in favor of any kind of continuous/complete striping of all TV Multi-Modal Paths and most likely to also be b) in favor and proponents of all manor of lawn ornaments/garden gnomes!! :)

I'll take a " Blue Moon" because you are wrong. I support making the paths safer. You can keep the lawn art...

[bagboy]

There is no credible evidence that striping whether it be center or side, will improve safety on the MMPs. This is from transportation and safety experts and engineers who are educated in, and spend each and every day reviewing and analyzing transportation information with respect to safety.

[Polar Bear]

There is no credible evidence that striping whether it be center or side, will improve safety on the MMPs. This is from transportation and safety experts and engineers who are educated in, and spend each and every day reviewing and analyzing transportation information with respect to safety.
There's a good reason for that...a meaningful amount of data that is comparable to MMPs in TV does not exist.

And as far as "This is from transportation and safety experts and engineers who are educated in, and spend each and every day reviewing and analyzing transportation information with respect to safety"...I was one of those guys for 30+ years.

And believe me...the vast majority of those guys would agree on the general principle that improved visibility leads to improved safety.

[dbussone]

"I do not see this as a political question. The question is "Do the multi-modal paths need to have edge striping?"



Do they? I don't know. But who gets to decide if not the will of the majority of the people?

Those elected to "represent" them?

This is the age old dilemma of a representative democracy.


I don't see it as a dilemma. I vote in as many elections as allowed. I see this as a similar situation. As many of us as possible should make our opinions known to our reps. They should vote based on the expressions of their constituents. If we don't like the way they vote, we have our say in their next election.

[CFrance]

I buy insurance for lots of things. It is unlikely my house will burn down or my car be in an accident. But I pay over a thousand a year to protect those items, just in case. I believe that it is difficult to see the margins of the paths in the dark, especially in the rain or when an oncoming car or cart causes my pupils to constrict thus reducing my night vision. There is no question that having a bright marker on the margins of the path will enhance my ability to determine the curves of the path. Will it actually reduce accidents? No data because only a place like TV could produce such data. Is it worth $7 a year for a margin of safety, I think so. Anyone who claims that visibility is good on the paths is simply not being honest. This is 2 cents a day per household.
A voice of reason.

[dbussone]

The "Voice of the Residents"? or just the voice of a small vocal minority who have little else to do but believe this cost will them bankrupt them. The cart paths would be safer with striping, sides and middle so stop worrying about a few bucks that the politicians will manage to **** away on something else anyway.

Really? I'm not worried about becoming bankrupt at the hands of a few. My concern relates to the use of money when there is no data to support it's expenditure. If they can spend a little for no purpose, they, or others, can do the same with a lot of money. Let's see, a great example would be our representatives in D.C. you have no data, proof, or other scientific reason to support your position.

[cologal]

Based on your descriptions of those two events.......NEITHER would have been averted or avoided with striping - of any kind - center or side. The 100's of dollars you spent on lighting up your cart would only be added to by the 1,000's of dollars of striping - with the same result!

I would be happy to contribute my household share of $3.30 for the stripping.... I'll even kick in your share.

[Barefoot]

I have read that there are 110,000 people here in the Villages. Thus a $330,000 capital improvement project which would be a great safety improvement for all of us would only cost about $3.30 per person. I can't understand why so many people are so upset about this. Seems like a no brainier.
Chipster, you say it would be "a great safety improvement for all of us", but many doubt that is true.
I'm not sure about striping, but I do like the idea of reflectors anywhere the road twists, turns or divides.

[dbussone]

Chipster, you say it would be "a great safety improvement for all of us", but many doubt that is true.
I'm not sure about striping, but I do like the idea of reflectors anywhere the road twists, turns or divides.

I can agree with that.

[Polar Bear]

...I'm not sure about striping, but I do like the idea of reflectors anywhere the road twists, turns or divides.

I could get on board with that.

[dbussone]

I could get on board with that.

"So let it be written, so let it be done."

[CFrance]

"So let it be written, so let it be done."
Amen. And if that doesn't work, then talk about taking it further. (Farther?)

[wendyquat]

For Heavens sake, most of us have been driving cars for over 50 years. What is so difficult about keeping a little ole golf cart in the proper lane?

[JoMar]

And when did the TV become a democracy?

[dbussone]

And when did the TV become a democracy?

Whoa! And now the serious questions appear. My response...Personally I prefer benevolent dictatorships.

[billethkid]

The striping will not change how people drive their carts.
Hence the accidents and injuries will continue at the same rate/type/frequency, etc.
And yes the paths will be safer for some for all the reasons stated.......most of which do not contribute to the accident/injury rate.

And be mindful that justifying a couple of bucks per month is no big deal. In a manner of speaking that merely emphasizes supporting increasing amenity fees.....it's only $2 or $6 or $8 per month this time!

[LuckySevens]

There is no credible evidence that striping whether it be center or side, will improve safety on the MMPs. This is from transportation and safety experts and engineers who are educated in, and spend each and every day reviewing and analyzing transportation information with respect to safety.

How would it be if our highways had no striping on them down the middle or edges. How horrific would that be? Well, MMP's ARE OUR GOLF CART HIGHWAYS, and they need to be as safe as they possibly can! Sure carts go slower than a car, but they don't provide any protection in a wreck like a car with airbags.
In fact, I think The Villages should have recognized this on their own and striped them from day one. After all, they make a lot of decisions without asking for our vote, and it usually costs us. I VOTE YES for striping, which means YES FOR SAFETY! Probably won't cost us as much as a couple of beers or Big Mac each year.

[dbussone]

How would it be if our highways had no striping on them down the middle or edges. How horrific would that be? Well, MMP's ARE OUR GOLF CART HIGHWAYS, and they need to be as safe as they possibly can! Sure carts go slower than a car, but they don't provide any protection in a wreck like a car with airbags.
In fact, I think The Villages should have recognized this on their own and striped them from day one. After all, they make a lot of decisions without asking for our vote, and it usually costs us. I VOTE YES for striping, which means YES FOR SAFETY! Probably won't cost us as much as a couple of beers or Big Mac each year.

Actually MMPs are not "our golf cart highways." they are for walkers, runners, bikers, carts, and other means of conveyance. Should we also stripe our sidewalks for safety reasons as well? Walkers don't go as fast as cars, and they have no airbags either.

[Warren Kiefer]

I do not see this as a political question. The question is "Do the multi-modal paths need to have edge striping? If the answer is Yes, then what is the best and most cost effective method to achieve this goal.

The district representatives will vote on how they believe will best meet the needs of our community. Us as residents, need to let our representative know our position. If we do not do this, or go to the meeting, then we forfet our right to "bitch" about it on this site on any other. It is not political. It is about the safety of the community and making our voice heard.

WRONG WRONG !!! The job of the District representatives is to the represent the wishes of those who elected them. What a particular representative personally feels has no bearing on his vote.

[bagboy]

Actually MMPs are not "our golf cart highways." they are for walkers, runners, bikers, carts, and other means of conveyance. Should we also stripe our sidewalks for safety reasons as well? Walkers don't go as fast as cars, and they have no airbags either.

You are right !!! The MMPs are NOT our golf cart highways. That is exactly the point of the engineers and safety experts consulted. In their professional opinion, striping the paths would create a more dangerous environment for users not driving golf carts.

[billethkid]

I keep wondering how we made here this past 12-20 years.....with an environment and ambiance and lifestyle that allowed TV to more than double in size the last 10 years.

Now all of a sudden a "special interest" group has become vocal about a favored issue.

Let us all hope the majority does it's job and the representatives do theirs (by representing the majority).

The subject has gone from interesting to humorous to (I will remain polite and not say!).

[Love2Swim]

You are right !!! The MMPs are NOT our golf cart highways. That is exactly the point of the engineers and safety experts consulted. In their professional opinion, striping the paths would create a more dangerous environment for users not driving golf carts.

I agree. Well said. They are not golf cart paths, or golf cart highways, they are recreational trails to be used by all.

[DonH57]

You are right !!! The MMPs are NOT our golf cart highways. That is exactly the point of the engineers and safety experts consulted. In their professional opinion, striping the paths would create a more dangerous environment for users not driving golf carts.

I was at one of the first meetings concerning the path safety meeting at Eisenhower rec center and when the point came up these paths are multi modal and not golf cart highways only, I couldn't count the complaining by villagers who think otherwise and mumbled about the engineer not knowing what he was talking about. I decided at that point not to attend another meeting.:(

[Challenger]

How would it be if our highways had no striping on them down the middle or edges. How horrific would that be? Well, MMP's ARE OUR GOLF CART HIGHWAYS, and they need to be as safe as they possibly can! Sure carts go slower than a car, but they don't provide any protection in a wreck like a car with airbags.
In fact, I think The Villages should have recognized this on their own and striped them from day one. After all, they make a lot of decisions without asking for our vote, and it usually costs us. I VOTE YES for striping, which means YES FOR SAFETY! Probably won't cost us as much as a couple of beers or Big Mac each year.

Exactly the problem-- treating MMPs like highways for golfcarts. Stipes will only add to that perception. Very few nightime accidents, and no evidence that stripes will change those statistics.

[NavyNJ]

I would be happy to contribute my household share of $3.30 for the stripping.... I'll even kick in your share.

Sorry.....didn't mean to imply that I was opposed simply due to the cost (which might or might not be reasonable for a project this size - don't know). Part of my opposition is due to the "I've got a hammer, let's go find a nail" approach to the entire striping proposal. Part of it is to the overall aesthetic effect all of the striping proposed would have on the "appearance" of TV as a whole (just a series of interlocking roadways of different sizes and shapes - some for cars, some for carts/bikes/walkers, some for all the above). The "trail-like" feel of TV would certainly be lost once that happened. And, most on point to my comment in the other post - I was specifically addressing 2 accidents that were described, some money spent to try and avert them, with no result, and then spending even more money with the same likely no result.

What I haven't seen in any of the discussion so far, by any group, is a well laid out, thoughtful, minimal impact on surroundings (aesthetics), data-driven set of options or courses of action. And for all the money spent on engineering studies, I would have liked to have seen some artist's renderings of the various options, applied along various segments (straight, curve, medians, etc.) of the paths, to better represent what the actual installation would look like.

And I suppose the last thing I'd ask if I could be at the meeting on Monday is why hasn't there apparently been any dialogue or research done with any other golf-cart style community in America?? If the Kinley-Horn study referenced this type of data, great - but I never saw it referenced. And please don't everyone start with "there's no place else like TV in America" - maybe not "identical" to TV, but there's plenty that have substantial golf cart transportation systems. How about Peachtree City just outside Atlanta, for one? Been going since at least the late 70's, early 80's, with at least 40 mi. or so of paths. I would think a few phone calls with those folks might be useful. At any rate......hopefully cooler/smarter heads will prevail on Monday, and at least rein in the "instant fix" urge until the entire subject can be more fully and reasonably considered. Good luck to all!! :)

[dbussone]

I keep wondering how we made here this past 12-20 years.....with an environment and ambiance and lifestyle that allowed TV to more than double in size the last 10 years.



Now all of a sudden a "special interest" group has become vocal about a favored issue.



Let us all hope the majority does it's job and the representatives do theirs (by representing the majority).



The subject has gone from interesting to humorous to (I will remain polite and not say!).


What he said!

[EnglishJW]

The striping will not change how people drive their carts.
Hence the accidents and injuries will continue at the same rate/type/frequency, etc.
And yes the paths will be safer for some for all the reasons stated.......most of which do not contribute to the accident/injury rate.

And be mindful that justifying a couple of bucks per month is no big deal. In a manner of speaking that merely emphasizes supporting increasing amenity fees.....it's only $2 or $6 or $8 per month this time!

In my opinion, the most significant problem on the multi-modal paths is the irresponsible behavior of many of the people using them (i.e., US). We are in a hurry ... We drank too much ... We're tired ... We're not paying attention (cellphones anyone?) ... We're speeding (do our carts really need to be able to go 25 - 30 - 35 mph?) ... We are impaired in any number of other ways ... Our own headlights are too bright and aimed too high ...

Striping won't address any of these issues.

[Barefoot]

Well, MMP's ARE OUR GOLF CART HIGHWAYS, and they need to be as safe as they possibly can!

No, MMPs are NOT our golf cart highways, that's a popular misconception, and it's wrong!
MMPs are multi-modal paths for use by joggers, bicycles, dog-walkers, etc.

Exactly the problem-- treating MMPs like highways for golfcarts. Stipes will only add to that perception. Very few nightime accidents, and no evidence that stripes will change those statistics.

:agree: I do think it would be prudent if reflectors were added on any pathways that twist or suddenly turn into divided pathways.

[vette]

"I keep wondering how we made here this past 12-20 years.....with an environment and ambiance and lifestyle that allowed TV to more than double in size the last 10 years." I Guess all us stupid people had no idea what TV needed !! (lol)

"Now all of a sudden a "special interest" group has become vocal about a favored issue." AMEN

Let us all hope the majority does it's job and the representatives do theirs (by representing the majority). Unfortunately HOPE may not cut it . . . I for one plan to become just as vocal in my opposition as the special interest group!

[outlaw]

If these MMPs were originally meant for walkers and dogs, I'll eat my hat. No one in their right mind would design tunnels like these with walkers in mind. Most people will acknowledge that the developer was pretty smart designing TV. Ride over the 441 overpass and see if you think that was designed for walkers. I think, without a doubt, the paths were meant for golf carts. They then morphed over time to accommodate skaters, runners, walkers, dog walking, etc.

[Walter123]

If these MMPs were originally meant for walkers and dogs, I'll eat my hat. No one in their right mind would design tunnels like these with walkers in mind. Most people will acknowledge that the developer was pretty smart designing TV. Ride over the 441 overpass and see if you think that was designed for walkers. I think, without a doubt, the paths were meant for golf carts. They then morphed over time to accommodate skaters, runners, walkers, dog walking, etc.

Ding, Ding, Ding.............Give that man a cigar!

[billethkid]

If these MMPs were originally meant for walkers and dogs, I'll eat my hat. No one in their right mind would design tunnels like these with walkers in mind. Most people will acknowledge that the developer was pretty smart designing TV. Ride over the 441 overpass and see if you think that was designed for walkers. I think, without a doubt, the paths were meant for golf carts. They then morphed over time to accommodate skaters, runners, walkers, dog walking, etc.

So they morphed. The MMP system in TV is what it is TODAY, not what it was in the past.

The paths RE WIDE ENOUGH TO ACCOMODATE ALL INTERESTS.

aND UNTIL IT IS ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THE RECKLESS AND UNEDUCATED DRIVING OF GOLF CARTS IS THE PROBLEM THIS OPINIONATED MERRY GO ROUND (SORRY ABOUT CAP LOCK) will only pick up speed which like the stripping and spending of $300,000+++++++ solve NOTHING!

[Jima64]

:$: where does the stripping take place?

[Barefoot]

:$: where does the stripping take place? Follow the pole dancing signs.

[graciegirl]

:$: where does the stripping take place?



OR in the privacy of one's own home. UNLESS, you like stuff like that and those folks choose the bandstand, until they are arrested.

[Justus]

I guess I'm the only one who read on the on-line news what Diane Spencer (District 5) said about the striping. Because I can't locate the article again, I will paraphrase: "I'm all for making the decision to go ahead with the vinyl striping, then worry about the cost later."


That sounds like a tax-and-spend politician, and we, the "little people", can foot the bill...

[graciegirl]

I guess I'm the only one who read on the on-line news what Diane Spencer (District 5) said about the striping. Because I can't locate the article again, I will paraphrase: "I'm all for making the decision to go ahead with the vinyl striping, then worry about the cost later."


That sounds like a tax-and-spend politician, and we, the "little people", can foot the bill...



Comments like that make my blood boil. That is the reason I wish the developer could just run things forever.

[billethkid]

This subject and expenditure and vocal group(s) finding new ways to spend money they do not have.....is only one example of what will be taking place more than we would like as residents take over control of how TV operates.

Mark your calendars for when these new "wants" begin to arise and eventually some get through anf the amenity fees begin to rise.

Let us hope the developer keeps something in place for a long....LONG.....time to moderate that eventuality.

[bagboy]

This subject and expenditure and vocal group(s) finding new ways to spend money they do not have.....is only one example of what will be taking place more than we would like as residents take over control of how TV operates.

Mark your calendars for when these new "wants" begin to arise and eventually some get through anf the amenity fees begin to rise.

Let us hope the developer keeps something in place for a long....LONG.....time to moderate that eventuality.

That has been my point all along.

[DonH57]

Follow the pole dancing signs.

They are going up this week!

[outlaw]

So they morphed. The MMP system in TV is what it is TODAY, not what it was in the past.

The paths RE WIDE ENOUGH TO ACCOMODATE ALL INTERESTS.

aND UNTIL IT IS ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THE RECKLESS AND UNEDUCATED DRIVING OF GOLF CARTS IS THE PROBLEM THIS OPINIONATED MERRY GO ROUND (SORRY ABOUT CAP LOCK) will only pick up speed which like the stripping and spending of $300,000+++++++ solve NOTHING!

There are many miles of paths that cannot accommodate all interests safely. Pretty much all the tunnels fall into this category.

[Mleeja]

Looking at the time many of these post occured, it is clear the posters did not attend the PWAC meeting this morning. I hope you at least made an effort to contact your district rep to express your position". If not, in my opinion you've lost your right to bitch.....

[graciegirl]

There are many miles of paths that cannot accommodate all interests safely. Pretty much all the tunnels fall into this category.



By whose decision and judgment? Are the streets to blame when accidents happen? What then if the cart paths are widened and lights put in and striping in the middle and on the edges continue and seat belts are mandated. Golf carts are open sided motor vehicles allowed to be driven by unlicensed drivers over the age of 14 which is a state law. As long as people drink and drive you can light those paths until the cows come home but you will have deaths because a golf cart will not win when a car hits them or a driver drives impaired.

[outlaw]

By whose decision and judgmenr? Are the streets to blame when accidents happen?

Have you never known of an intersection or street that was considered dangerous by locals? How about a busy street going past a playground where children play?
But I'm not blaming the developer, if that's your concern. I just don't believe the developer built these older neighborhood paths for anything other than golf carts.

[graciegirl]

By whose decision and judgment? Are the streets to blame when accidents happen? What then if the cart paths are widened and lights put in and striping in the middle and on the edges continue and seat belts are mandated. Golf carts are open sided motor vehicles allowed to be driven by unlicensed drivers over the age of 14 which is a state law. As long as people drink and drive you can light those paths until the cows come home but you will have deaths because a golf cart will not win when a car hits them or a driver drives impaired.



bump

[Kevin and Luci]

Will be interesting to see if the number of cars pulling into the paths increase, if they stripe them. This will make them look like other streets....... Just a thought.

[bagboy]

Looking at the time many of these post occured, it is clear the posters did not attend the PWAC meeting this morning. I hope you at least made an effort to contact your district rep to express your position". If not, in my opinion you've lost your right to bitch.....

Sure takes a lot of nerve to tell someone who invested in a home here, pays their taxes, and pays their amenity fees that they have no right to complain because they didn't attend a meeting.

[CFrance]

Sure takes a lot of nerve to tell someone who invested in a home here, pays their taxes, and pays their amenity fees that they have no right to complain because they didn't attend a meeting.
My take is that's not really what was said. I think what was meant/said was that if you did not at least contact your supervisor with your view, then you shouldn't complain.

[billethkid]

Must be the "younger" crowd moving here in recent years that cannot navigate what some of us have been doing for 12-20 years with no problem!

When was the last time there were accidents between walkers and golf carts? Walkers and bikes? Bikes and golf carts?

The safety issue is 99% golf cart to golf cart or golf cart with no other involvement. So the issue is not the sharing of the paths as CURRENTLY intended. The issue is, just like on the highways and byways.....the way drivers drive.

Until or unless that changes (hasn't happened on the highways and byways yet!!!!) evrything else discussed or proposed is speial interest or eye wash.

[marianne237]

what happened to personal responsibility?

[billethkid]

what happened to personal responsibility?

Oh-oh we are getting closer!

[Justus]

Sure takes a lot of nerve to tell someone who invested in a home here, pays their taxes, and pays their amenity fees that they have no right to complain because they didn't attend a meeting.

Well said!

[outlaw]

Will be interesting to see if the number of cars pulling into the paths increase, if they stripe them. This will make them look like other streets....... Just a thought.

Since the CCD4 MMPs have been striped, not a single car has passed me going in either direction.