Side striping of the golf cart path

[tomwed]

So if you do get in a golf cart fender bender what phone number do you call to report the data?

[asianthree]

So if you do get in a golf cart fender bender what phone number do you call to report the data?

Your spouse

[mickey100]

Three years of reported accident data was used. You can't generate more past data out of thin air. And, you can't analyze the frequency of things that never happened. So the case can be made to hold-off on striping for the time being, and rigorously collect new data going forward for a given reasonable period of time. If the frequency of accidents increases over the test period, then proceed with striping. If the frequency stays the same, continue collecting data. If the frequency diminishes, then cancel striping.

Good common sense approach.

[looneycat]

Another ridiculous comparison between 20 mph golf carts and 70 mph cars.

you obviously never saw how much damage 2 cars hitting each other at 20mph

(creating a 40mph collision) can cause....and cars have airbags and frames designed to protect the passengers, golf carts have nothing.

[outlaw]

Many of you may not realize there are various sections of cart paths with dashed center lines. Some are so old that the lines have faded to almost invisible. Some have been repainted recently. So the dashed center line stripe is not something new for cart/MMP paths.

[twoplanekid]

Love some of the comments on this YouTube video. Speed is 31 MPH for the test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGaiYaHQwEo

[looneycat]

Love some of comments on this YouTube video. Speed is 31 MPH for the test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGaiYaHQwEo

which is equivalent to a head on between 2 carts each going about 15 mph. To those who have visitors carrying babies on their laps, think you can hold a baby?

thanks twoplanekid for a more graphic depiction of the forces involved.

[tomwed]

I watched the crashes as best I could because I can't find my glasses this morning. Boy oh boy, that's the worst driver I have ever seen.

[Average Guy]

I watched the crashes as best I could because I can't find my glasses this morning. Boy oh boy, that's the worst driver I have ever seen.

I guess you could say that there was a real dummy behind the wheel.

[rogerz]

When a sudden blown tire at 70 mph on an interstate caused my TR6 to lose control, bottom out in the median, take to the air across two lanes of opposing traffic and land up against a billboard, the people who stopped to help knew exactly how to pinpoint my location to the EMS by the mile marker.

Also, the quicker you can get disabled vehicles off the highway, the safer it is for motorists and occupants of the disabled vehicle.

I am not a careless driver, speeder, drunk driver, any of those things some are saying "Too bad, stay off the road" to. To this day I wonder if in my shock I ever even stepped on the brakes. I don't remember.

To me it's a matter of making the roads as safe as possible for every kind of driver. Back in the '70s it was a big deal to tally up the road deaths after holiday weekends. Cars and the roads have been made so safe you don't hear that much anymore.

And as for the poll... pick a torrential downpour after dark, take the pollsters out and let them navigate both marked and unmarked trails. Then let them vote.
Excellent comments! Your last paragraph was spot on. My recent trip on Buena vista in rain after football game was harrowing and I am not visually impaired!

[billethkid]

Torential down pours.
After dark.

When the golf cart was moved from the golf course to being the daily driver/transportation, what modifications other than turn signals, head lights and brake lights were made to accomodate such conditions?

Does anybody wonder why they did not include windshield wipers? Why not?
Since there are many comparisons to the highways and the autos on them.....they must have windshield wipers. Why is that?

[CFrance]

Torential down pours.
After dark.

When the golf cart was moved from the golf course to being the daily driver/transportation, what modifications other than turn signals, head lights and brake lights were made to accomodate such conditions?

Does anybody wonder why they did not include windshield wipers? Why not?
Since there are many comparisons to the highways and the autos on them.....they must have windshield wipers. Why is that?
I've often wondered that myself. I was riding on St. Charles during the day in a torrential downpour, and the driver and I couldn't see a thing.

[Barefoot]

Does anybody wonder why they did not include windshield wipers?
I've wondered why only street legal carts have wipers. I really don't know, but normally people don't golf in the rain. And if rain is forecast, especially at night, perhaps it's assumed that people will use their cars rather than carts?

[virgind]

So if it was raining that hard I assume you pulled over to wait the rain out. (common sense) You think side lines would help.

[CFrance]

So if it was raining that hard I assume you pulled over to wait the rain out. (common sense) You think side lines would help.
Sigh.

[asianthree]

Do Street legal have glass windshields. Maybe that's the reason why they can have wipers

[Mleeja]

Torential down pours.
After dark.

When the golf cart was moved from the golf course to being the daily driver/transportation, what modifications other than turn signals, head lights and brake lights were made to accomodate such conditions?

Does anybody wonder why they did not include windshield wipers? Why not?
Since there are many comparisons to the highways and the autos on them.....they must have windshield wipers. Why is that?

What type of safety equipiment have you installed on your cart? Seat bealts? Running lights? Wipers? High beam LED headlights?

[dbussone]

Do Street legal have glass windshields. Maybe that's the reason why they can have wipers

They are supposed to have a single pane windshield with a wiper per USDOT standards, but I have seen 2 piece windshield as well. Maybe there is an exception for "low speed vehicles."

[dbussone]

What type of safety equipiment have you installed on your cart? Seat bealts? Running lights? Wipers? High beam LED headlights?

I have added seat belts and running lights. The carts I have seen with high beam LED headlights are blinding as you approach them. I have also added a fan for Summer and heater for Winter.

[billethkid]

What type of safety equipiment have you installed on your cart? Seat bealts? Running lights? Wipers? High beam LED headlights?

A common sense, not in a hurry, patient driver. That solves 98% of the problems/issues.

[Polar Bear]

A common sense, not in a hurry, patient driver. That solves 98% of the problems/issues.

Yep. And all those safety features on all our various vehicles and travel-ways are designed to help that very driver stay safe.

[Mleeja]

Has anyone checked out the article in the on-line news source today? Interesting article with lots of information. Monday's meeting should be exciting. I'll be there. Will you?

[skip0358]

Yea read the article. Driver awareness is the biggest problem period. Changing the size of the tires, they're sold that way. Going over 20 MPH is done by the buyer not the provider. Even when the cart goes in for service they have to now make sure the speed is set at 20 mph and it's written on your service order. How FEW driving slow down when approaching a jogger or obey the 3 foot rule when there's a biker. Or the golfer who hangs his towel off the bag and covers the brake and directional lights. Best is when there are 2 bags and both lights are covered. How few observe the 10 mph over the bridge, hell I got passed on the bridge a few weeks back. JMO

[billethkid]

Yea read the article. Driver awareness is the biggest problem period. Changing the size of the tires, they're sold that way. Going over 20 MPH is done by the buyer not the provider. Even when the cart goes in for service they have to now make sure the speed is set at 20 mph and it's written on your service order. How FEW driving slow down when approaching a jogger or obey the 3 foot rule when there's a biker. Or the golfer who hangs his towel off the bag and covers the brake and directional lights. Best is when there are 2 bags and both lights are covered. How few observe the 10 mph over the bridge, hell I got passed on the bridge a few weeks back. JMO

Now we are getting to the real issues that make the MMP unsafe.
The striping will do absolutely nothing to reform these major contributors to unsafe conditions on the MMP.

[JCMSr]

While driving on the MMP yesterday morning on the way to our tee time we were following another cart as we approached the curve near where Buena Vista intersects 466A. Suddenly a cart came up behind us and tried to pass both of us in the curve. Suddenly there were two more carts driving in the opposite direction that ended up slamming on brakes and swerving off the side of the path to avoid a head on collision. :22yikes: This was very close to a five cart pileup had the other four drivers not been paying attention. Just another example where no amount of striping would have helped avoid this situation. The offending cart was obviously going over 20 mph. Had I not been so shocked I would have gotten his tag number (yes he had one) and reported him for reckless driving. Guess nothing can be done to fix stupid!

[tomwed]

While driving on the MMP yesterday morning on the way to our tee time we were following another cart as we approached the curve near where Buena Vista intersects 466A. Suddenly a cart came up behind us and tried to pass both of us in the curve. Suddenly there were two more carts driving in the opposite direction that ended up slamming on brakes and swerving off the side of the path to avoid a head on collision. :22yikes: This was very close to a five cart pileup had the other four drivers not been paying attention. Just another example where no amount of striping would have helped avoid this situation. The offending cart was obviously going over 20 mph. Had I not been so shocked I would have gotten his tag number (yes he had one) and reported him for reckless driving. Guess nothing can be done to fix stupid!
Did you report it to the data collectors?
On my bike I ran off the road on a blind curve to avoid an accident at the same place. I also saw an accident there, or the results while playing at Turtle Mound. My gut feeling is that most of us have been in close calls on MMP blind curves. Striping would not help, maybe a mirror would? I don't know.

Further down on BV there is a blind curve around Pinellas. I think if they cut the bushes down, it wouldn't be blind. I'm biking that way later to see a football game and I'll check.

I wish there was a pin point map that did point out the danger areas on the MMP. I wonder if TOTV would be a good place to submit the data? Moderator, can you help?

[JCMSr]

No I did not report this incident because as I said you cannot fix stupid. Our cart is equipped with a speedometer and we were driving at 19 mph just before we were passed so it was obvious that the culprit was driving above the legal speed of 20 mph on the MMP. Oh and since he had no golf clubs on his cart he was not late for his tee time either.

As to using mirrors I ask you this. If you were driving on a city street would you consider passing someone on a blind curve? I certainly hope not! You would most likely stay in your own lane and then pass when conditions were safe. This idiot decided to pass not one but two carts at the same time in a corner and just before a tunnel entrance/intersection. It was amazing that everyone reacted in time and I commend the other drivers for their defensive driving skills. I also comment them for the eloquent use of the English language in expressing their displeasure :censored: to the guy that was in such a hurry. I think I learned a few new words.

[tomwed]

As to using mirrors I ask you this. If you were driving on a city street would you consider passing someone on a blind curve? I certainly hope not!
In all situations I only pass on a straight away. I'm not stupid.

My point is that blind curves are inherently dangerous and whenever possible be modified.

I don't know if that blind curve can be fixed so you can see the stupid people coming in the wrong lane.

The mirror suggestion is like the mirrors installed on the end of some tunnels. You get a chance to see if someone is coming on your blind side. I don't think that will work. Someone may come up with a more defensive strategy.

[JCMSr]

tomwed.....I certainly was not referring to you in my previous post! In this particular location the blind curve happens to be a very long gradual curve and a mirror would only cover a small portion of the area. Mirrors are great at intersections (such as tunnel exits) where you need to see if anyone is coming before you stick your nose out. I doubt that a mirror would be helpful in the area where this incident occurred just because of the angles required for drivers to be able to see someone coming from the opposite direction would be so wide. Most drivers, thank goodness, have better sense than to try to pass in such locations but there are always the privileged few that feel that their time is more valuable and do not want to be slowed down by things like laws, regulations or common sense thereby endangering those that are willing to proceed with care.

[tomwed]

tomwed.....I certainly was not referring to you in my previous post!
no problem
I was looking for a MMP map so I could see where you almost had an accident and found this accidently.

Village Community Development Districts (http://www.districtgov.org/community/GateArms.aspx)

Golf Carts vs Gate Arms

This has nothing to do with striping but I think it makes your point about others making stupid decisions and driving defensively because you never know. These are just the videos of people breaking the Delmar gate.

It makes me wonder how safe it really is out there. This is real data collecting.

[morriewayne]

I go all over in our golf cart, and when the sun goes down and it is dark u cannot see the edge of the paths, we need edging for safety sake. My word lets get with it, people.

[OldManTime]

Some one please tell me why the side stripping of the golf cart paths have to be done. Thats an expence that is a waste of money.

It is so when one is driving drunk, in the dark, they can follow the stripe..

[CFrance]

It is so when one is driving drunk, in the dark, they can follow the stripe..

A common misconception about who can see and who can't, and why!:icon_wink:

[asianthree]

It is so when one is driving drunk, in the dark, they can follow the stripe..

Well if they do put the stripe down it will at least give somebody a line to walk on for their sobriety test

[billethkid]

I go all over in our golf cart, and when the sun goes down and it is dark u cannot see the edge of the paths, we need edging for safety sake. My word lets get with it, people.

I am in awe at how 98% of us have been able to do just fine for the last 15 years!!!

[biker1]

Are your headlights functioning correctly?

I go all over in our golf cart, and when the sun goes down and it is dark u cannot see the edge of the paths, we need edging for safety sake. My word lets get with it, people.

[Polar Bear]

I am in awe at how 98% of us have been able to do just fine for the last 15 years!!!
Look down on people much?

[billethkid]

Look down on people much?

My intent did not include any thought or intent of "looking down".
Only to present another aspect of the same thought.

[MaxCat]

Some one please tell me why the side stripping of the golf cart paths have to be done. Thats an expence that is a waste of money.
Personally, I don't find it difficult to see the side edge of the path. But there may be some people in The Villages who are not as lucky as some of us to still have their good eyesight. If the side striping helps some of our residents see the sides of the cart path better, particularly in poor weather or low light, then I am all for something like that. If it helps keep anyone from running off the path in error, or helps keep them on the path and not running into someone else (like you or me), then I am all for it.

[tomwed]

no problem
I was looking for a MMP map so I could see where you almost had an accident and found this accidently.

Village Community Development Districts (http://www.districtgov.org/community/GateArms.aspx)

Golf Carts vs Gate Arms

This has nothing to do with striping but I think it makes your point about others making stupid decisions and driving defensively because you never know. These are just the videos of people breaking the Delmar gate.

It makes me wonder how safe it really is out there. This is real data collecting.
I looked closer at the dates. Maybe the time stamps are incorrect.

7/29/13, 7/22/13, 8/25/13, 8/26/13 [2 months 8 incidents]

Than 10 months with no recordings. It would be silly to think no incidents during this time.

9/13/12, 9/13/12, 9/10/12, 9/8/12, 9/7/12 [6 days 5 incidents]

I don't know what to think. Are there many unsafe drivers out there?

I know the subject is stripes not gates and $2-5 doesn't matter to me. Get the stripes. I don't think this sets any president for skyrocketing future spending on safety or softball fields.

It's just my curiosity about how many people out there may not be qualified to react quickly when a gate comes down, or animal jumps out or someone is traveling in the wrong lane for any reason.

[biker1]

I find it curious that you would use "safety and softball fields" in the same sentence. The softball fields are an amenity that needs to be maintained. It is not optional. A professional opinion has already been rendered for the side striping.

I looked closer at the dates. Maybe the time stamps are incorrect.

7/29/13, 7/22/13, 8/25/13, 8/26/13 [2 months 8 incidents]

Than 10 months with no recordings. It would be silly to think no incidents during this time.

9/13/12, 9/13/12, 9/10/12, 9/8/12, 9/7/12 [6 days 5 incidents]

I don't know what to think. Are there many unsafe drivers out there?

I know the subject is stripes not gates and $2-5 doesn't matter to me. Get the stripes. I don't think this sets any president for skyrocketing future spending on safety or softball fields.

It's just my curiosity about how many people out there may not be qualified to react quickly when a gate comes down, or animal jumps out or someone is traveling in the wrong lane for any reason.

[Mleeja]

Just recently returned from the Multi-Modal Path Review Committee Meeting. It looks like the issue of side striping is dead for now. Kimberly-Horn reviewed their latest study and recommendations which in include markings at the medians, sharp curves and obstructions next to the paths. This appears to be a reasonable effort to make the paths safer for all. The committee adopted this report to take back to the individual districts.

No cost were discussed, but I would suspect this would be done in the individual district meetings. I hope the "haters" of side striping recognize this proposal is a good alternative and when the cost start coming out do not torpedo this effort as well.

I was somewhat disappointed that the chairman of the committee kind of cut off public discussion by saying "you must make new points to be heard". Many people left after this....

There seemed to be a lot of people at the meeting from district 8. You all have some problems down there. Also, it looked like they all drove their cars. Are the paths unsafe between district 8 and the Savannah Center?

For my part as long as this discussion stays about district 8, I will remain silent, that is unless someone post something really stupid….

[golfing eagles]

"....that is unless someone post something really stupid…. "

I think you mean UNTIL:1rotfl:

[tomwed]

[QUOTE=Mleeja;1117372]Just recently returned from the Multi-Modal Path Review Committee Meeting.

thanks for going and sharing

[outlaw]

Just recently returned from the Multi-Modal Path Review Committee Meeting. It looks like the issue of side striping is dead for now. Kimberly-Horn reviewed their latest study and recommendations which in include markings at the medians, sharp curves and obstructions next to the paths. This appears to be a reasonable effort to make the paths safer for all. The committee adopted this report to take back to the individual districts.

No cost were discussed, but I would suspect this would be done in the individual district meetings. I hope the "haters" of side striping recognize this proposal is a good alternative and when the cost start coming out do not torpedo this effort as well.

I was somewhat disappointed that the chairman of the committee kind of cut off public discussion by saying "you must make new points to be heard". Many people left after this....

There seemed to be a lot of people at the meeting from district 8. You all have some problems down there. Also, it looked like they all drove their cars. Are the paths unsafe between district 8 and the Savannah Center?

For my part as long as this discussion stays about district 8, I will remain silent, that is unless someone post something really stupid….

One question: Was anyone saving any seats?

[billethkid]

Just recently returned from the Multi-Modal Path Review Committee Meeting. It looks like the issue of side striping is dead for now. Kimberly-Horn reviewed their latest study and recommendations which in include markings at the medians, sharp curves and obstructions next to the paths. This appears to be a reasonable effort to make the paths safer for all. The committee adopted this report to take back to the individual districts.

No cost were discussed, but I would suspect this would be done in the individual district meetings. I hope the "haters" of side striping recognize this proposal is a good alternative and when the cost start coming out do not torpedo this effort as well.

I was somewhat disappointed that the chairman of the committee kind of cut off public discussion by saying "you must make new points to be heard". Many people left after this....

There seemed to be a lot of people at the meeting from district 8. You all have some problems down there. Also, it looked like they all drove their cars. Are the paths unsafe between district 8 and the Savannah Center?

For my part as long as this discussion stays about district 8, I will remain silent, that is unless someone post something really stupid….

I suspect that there are many like me who are opposed to the striping for reasons already stated too many times to date.

HOWEVER, please be advised that being opposed DOES NOT equate to hate.

[Mleeja]

One question: Was anyone saving any seats?

No seat savers! Lot's of empty seats. Hummmm. However I think I saw a couple of people there from District 5 packing chain saws and I got the impression the building was sinking as the meeting was taking place. :bigbow:

[Marathon Man]

Just recently returned from the Multi-Modal Path Review Committee Meeting. It looks like the issue of side striping is dead for now. Kimberly-Horn reviewed their latest study and recommendations which in include markings at the medians, sharp curves and obstructions next to the paths. This appears to be a reasonable effort to make the paths safer for all. The committee adopted this report to take back to the individual districts.

No cost were discussed, but I would suspect this would be done in the individual district meetings. I hope the "haters" of side striping recognize this proposal is a good alternative and when the cost start coming out do not torpedo this effort as well.

I was somewhat disappointed that the chairman of the committee kind of cut off public discussion by saying "you must make new points to be heard". Many people left after this....

There seemed to be a lot of people at the meeting from district 8. You all have some problems down there. Also, it looked like they all drove their cars. Are the paths unsafe between district 8 and the Savannah Center?

For my part as long as this discussion stays about district 8, I will remain silent, that is unless someone post something really stupid….

I was also there. The chairman appropriately reminded the group that a decision has already been made. Therefore only new information that was not presented before the decision would be welcome. This was done after a supervisor from one of the districts made a pro-strip argument. One of the committee members stated that this subject has been "beat to death".

Now let me address your insults. I am a "hater" of side stripes. I see the proposed path alterations as logical and needed. I hope they get implimented. And, I am from district 8 and I drove my car.

[tthdr]

I understand some peoples concern. If there needs to be marking it should be centerline reflectors which they do now. I am sure they could identify the high accident areas and mark them. The striping is expensive and is a recurring cost. The reflectors would be less expensive and cheaper to replace as a recurring cost

[Mleeja]

I was also there. The chairman appropriately reminded the group that a decision has already been made. Therefore only new information that was not presented before the decision would be welcome. This was done after a supervisor from one of the districts made a pro-strip argument. One of the committee members stated that this subject has been "beat to death".

Now let me address your insults. I am a "hater" of side stripes. I see the proposed path alterations as logical and needed. I hope they get implimented. And, I am from district 8 and I drove my car.

Yes, it was interesting that the chairman did not cut off the anti-stripe speakers. The person he cut off is a supervisor from district 2, my distrct. What he was trying to say about Buena Vista and El Camino is 100% correct.

I am not a member of the POA and generally do not support thier agenda. They have control of the District 8 board. Since the organization supports striping I can see a "fight" on your board to reverse the decision. You might just findout what the people really want.

[virgind]

Remember what ever you spend now you will be spending every year or two. So the real cost is much higher than you think. Kind of like a tax you will never get rid of it.

[bilcon]

Where did you get the idea that District 8 residents wanted side striping?

[CFrance]

I don't think that the POA controls the district 8 board. I voted for those people BECAUSE they are members of the POA, and that is a plus in my book. They are of like minds with the POA, and therefore with my husband and I.

[Buckeye Bob]

I'm a resident in District 8. Setting the cost of striping aside, I want to see something uniform throughout if it's going to be done at all. As I understand it, the engineers are against the striping so if our District 8 goes ahead with the striping and someone sues saying they tripped on it or it blinded them, etc., who is on the hook for the lawyer fees and any settlements?

[virgind]

That other newspaper said the striping would be raised to help navigate the trickier section of the path. REALLY such BS.

[Mleeja]

Where did you get the idea that District 8 residents wanted side striping?

Three members of the board have ties to the POA. The POA has came out in support of side striping. I am making a leap of faith that the POA membership in district 8 have expressed thier support of striping to these three district supervisors.

[graciegirl]

I don't think that the POA controls the district 8 board. I voted for those people BECAUSE they are members of the POA, and that is a plus in my book. They are of like minds with the POA, and therefore with my husband and I.



I would vote against them for the same reason.

I would love to see a brand new homeowners association that represented homeowners area wide and that did not have affiliation with the developer. I think the POA is not a group I can relate to at all.

I think the VHA is valuable and does good things but it is affiliated to the developer.


What villages does district 8 cover? I thought it was the area around Nancy Lopez, but apparently I am wrong.

[Villageswimmer]

I would vote against them for the same reason.


What villages does district 8 cover?

So would many others now.

[CFrance]

I would vote against them for the same reason.


What villages does district 8 cover?

To each his own. And I believe that Somehow your village is part of District 8, so you may get the chance.
I could be wrong. Thought I read that somewhere.

[rogerz]

I suspect that there are many like me who are opposed to the striping for reasons already stated too many times to date.

HOWEVER, please be advised that being opposed DOES NOT equate to hate.

Well, I guess you haven't read enough of these postings. Lots of folks with legitimate concerns pro & con, but lots that just seemed like they needed a soft target for their anger.

[rogerz]

Just recently returned from the Multi-Modal Path Review Committee Meeting. It looks like the issue of side striping is dead for now. Kimberly-Horn reviewed their latest study and recommendations which in include markings at the medians, sharp curves and obstructions next to the paths. This appears to be a reasonable effort to make the paths safer for all. The committee adopted this report to take back to the individual districts.

No cost were discussed, but I would suspect this would be done in the individual district meetings. I hope the "haters" of side striping recognize this proposal is a good alternative and when the cost start coming out do not torpedo this effort as well.

I was somewhat disappointed that the chairman of the committee kind of cut off public discussion by saying "you must make new points to be heard". Many people left after this....

There seemed to be a lot of people at the meeting from district 8. You all have some problems down there. Also, it looked like they all drove their cars. Are the paths unsafe between district 8 and the Savannah Center?

For my part as long as this discussion stays about district 8, I will remain silent, that is unless someone post something really stupid….

I attended meeting as well, and your report is spot on.
I'm looking forward to a positive outcome now with more emphasis on safety.
One add'l comment - after their discussions it seemed like a real conciliatory atmosphere among committee members and also among audience members. then the PWAC rep made some comments that were extremely one-sided and you could feel atmosphere in room revert to the earlier tension that existed.

[CFrance]

To each his own. And I believe that Somehow your village is part of District 8, so you may get the chance.
I could be wrong. Thought I read that somewhere.
Village of Bridgeport at Laurel Manor is District 8 according to the Neighborhood page of The Villages website. Did you vote for those guys, GG?!!:faint:

[rogerz]

VCDD District Map (http://districtgov.org/yourdistrict/districtmap/detail.aspx?district=4)

[rogerz]

That other newspaper said the striping would be raised to help navigate the trickier section of the path. REALLY such BS.

Drive at night much, during rain, early tee time maybe?
you speak from experience??

[Mleeja]

That other newspaper said the striping would be raised to help navigate the trickier section of the path. REALLY such BS.

Just for clarification, are you referring to the comments from the original Kimberly-Horn report or the one presented in July and reviewed in today's meeting?

[graciegirl]

Village of Bridgeport at Laurel Manor is District 8 according to the Neighborhood page of The Villages website. Did you vote for those guys, GG?!!:faint:



No. I wasn't aware of the election to tell you the truth.

[Marathon Man]

The gentleman making the pro-striping comments was stopped by the chairman because his time had expired. Not because of what he was saying.

[Djembe dude]

If you want the cart paths to be safer, start testing golf carts for legal speed limits 20 mph. and not allow any faster carts. Striping isn't going to help the idiot passing you going over 20.

[graciegirl]

If you want the cart paths to be safer, start testing golf carts for legal speed limits 20 mph. and not allow any faster carts. Striping isn't going to help the idiot passing you going over 20.





Striping is not the answer to all problems with golf cart accidents.


Today's news..........Villager arrested in Winn-Dixie parking lot for crashing his cart had tee many drinkie poos plus some pot....and you can see how his cart looks on the online news. He DIDN'T want bystanders to call the cops. He did not say whether he was for or against striping.

[biker1]

How would you suggest they start testing golf carts? There are over 50,000 golf carts in The Villages. Are you suggesting that testing stations be setup? Who is going to pay for that? Assuming you could test 100 carts a day, that would take 2 years to test them all. How often are you going to require a retest? You would have to pass some sort of law that required carts to be tested - good luck with that. Assuming you could actually test carts for a maximum speed, right after the test the owners could adjust the governor (for gas carts) to increase the speed above 20 mph. Carts from The Villages Golf Cart store come setup for a maximum of 20 mph. I know many people who put a zip tie on the governor to increase the speed to 25 mph or so. According to you, someone who goes 22 mph to pass a cart going 15 mph is an idiot. I generally prefer not to call people names.

If you want the cart paths to be safer, start testing golf carts for legal speed limits 20 mph. and not allow any faster carts. Striping isn't going to help the idiot passing you going over 20.

[Polar Bear]

If you want the cart paths to be safer, start testing golf carts for legal speed limits 20 mph. and not allow any faster carts....

And this relates to the striping issue....how? Never mind. Almost everybody in this thread already knows the answer...it doesn't!

[Mikeod]

I like the result of the MMP Discussion Group. I think markings at turns and medians and other potential obstructions will help day or night. Now, they have to follow up with data collection to see if there is a reduction in accidents, especially at those sites. Maybe then we can have further discussion of striping with Villages data to back it up.

I really did not like the idea of each CDD deciding how and what they were going to do. It could really make for an ugly situation where some paths are center striped and some are side striped and may be some have both. Whatever it is, it should be consistent throughout.

[tomwed]

Now, they have to follow up with data collection to see if there is a reduction in accidents, especially at those sites. Maybe then we can have further discussion of striping with Villages data to back it up.
How could they collect the data if it's voluntary?
Maybe with cameras? But who is going to look at all the video?
I thought about this quite a bit.
It's easy to put a camera at the gate and when the gate breaks look at the tape.

[Barefoot]

I think markings at turns and medians and other potential obstructions will help day or night. Whatever it is, it should be consistent throughout. :agree:

[golfing eagles]

If you want the cart paths to be safer, start testing golf carts for legal speed limits 20 mph. and not allow any faster carts. Striping isn't going to help the idiot passing you going over 20.

Sorry, I can't see this as solely a speed issue. Are you suggesting that a driver who goes out on I-75 at 80 mph can handle a golf cart at 20 mph but not 23 mph? Just as that driver would adjust his/her speed for darkness/fog/rain on the interstate, they have to adjust on the MMPs. And just as heavier traffic dictates speed on the highway, the same is true on the paths. IF someone is not adjusting for these conditions, that just makes them a bad driver, and 3 mph of speed is not going to help them (or the rest of us). A lot of speed limits on roadways are somewhat arbitrary and in some cases political as well. Why 20 mph on a MMP and not 25 or 15? Personally, I like my cars with excess horsepower. If I do have to pass some clown going 40 mph on a 55 mph 2 lane road, I want to get out there when safe and get back on my side ASAP. I imagine the same principle applies to golf carts, although in my limited MMP experience I have never passed anyone. But if I do, I'd be a little fearful that my vehicle couldn't pass fast enough if "governed". On the highway, there usually is a little difference in your speed when passing as opposed to cruising along.

[Bogie Shooter]

Sorry, I can't see this as solely a speed issue. Are you suggesting that a driver who goes out on I-75 at 80 mph can handle a golf cart at 20 mph but not 23 mph? Just as that driver would adjust his/her speed for darkness/fog/rain on the interstate, they have to adjust on the MMPs. And just as heavier traffic dictates speed on the highway, the same is true on the paths. IF someone is not adjusting for these conditions, that just makes them a bad driver, and 3 mph of speed is not going to help them (or the rest of us). A lot of speed limits on roadways are somewhat arbitrary and in some cases political as well. Why 20 mph on a MMP and not 25 or 15? Personally, I like my cars with excess horsepower. If I do have to pass some clown going 40 mph on a 55 mph 2 lane road, I want to get out there when safe and get back on my side ASAP. I imagine the same principle applies to golf carts, although in my limited MMP experience I have never passed anyone. But if I do, I'd be a little fearful that my vehicle couldn't pass fast enough if "governed". On the highway, there usually is a little difference in your speed when passing as opposed to cruising along.
Then why even pass?

[outlaw]

Then why even pass?

Why not?

[golfing eagles]

Then why even pass?

When you encounter, lets say on a 2 lane section of US 301 posted at 60 mph, someone ahead of you going 35 mph you stay behind them for the next 30 miles???? If so, I applaud your patience, if not your blood pressure control. Likewise, although I have not yet had the pleasure, if I get behind someone driving a path at 11 mph and it's safe, I would not give a second thought to passing them especially on a 3 or 4 mile trip. How about you? would you stay behind either of these drivers? How about everyone else? I know, I know, we're retired, what's the rush. But there are a lot of things I'd rather do in retirement instead of crawling down a highway or a MMP. For most of us who have lived in New York all our lives, we'd rather eat shoe leather than drive behind those "drivers". Reminder, I'm not talking about those going 57 in a 60 zone or 18 on a MMP, I'm talking about the road litter that is so ridiculous that you just want to get a bulldozer and plow them off to the side.

[Mleeja]

This thread has ben on the topic of side striping, with a few diversions to stripping. If we all want to talk about regulating the speed of a cart, let's do this in its own thread. I am sure this topic will fire-up a lot of folks and the topic deserves a specific thread.

[Mikeod]

How could they collect the data if it's voluntary?
Maybe with cameras? But who is going to look at all the video?
I thought about this quite a bit.
It's easy to put a camera at the gate and when the gate breaks look at the tape.
You're right. You will not get data on all incidents, but, with all the publicity MMP safety has garnered, there may be an upturn in reported cases. Perhaps through the POA or VHA or even TOTV. Previously, the POA collected data only on incidents with personal injury.

Also, those who have concerns about certain areas being especially difficult or dangerous can report if they feel the markings help or not.

[golfing eagles]

This thread has ben on the topic of side striping, with a few diversions to stripping. If we all want to talk about regulating the speed of a cart, let's do this in its own thread. I am sure this topic will fire-up a lot of folks and the topic deserves a specific thread.

Probably, but side striping was introduced as a safety idea. Part of the argument against striping was based on the concept that it would not improve safety, but regulating speed by impairing a vehicle would, in the belief that speed was the major cause of safety issue, not visibility. So while it probably deserves it's own thread, it also has relevance to this one.

[Walter123]

Let me ask you a question....Mleeja.

Do you think a center line would accomplish the same thing as side stripping?

[Bogie Shooter]

When you encounter, lets say on a 2 lane section of US 301 posted at 60 mph, someone ahead of you going 35 mph you stay behind them for the next 30 miles???? If so, I applaud your patience, if not your blood pressure control. Likewise, although I have not yet had the pleasure, if I get behind someone driving a path at 11 mph and it's safe, I would not give a second thought to passing them especially on a 3 or 4 mile trip. How about you? would you stay behind either of these drivers? How about everyone else? I know, I know, we're retired, what's the rush. But there are a lot of things I'd rather do in retirement instead of crawling down a highway or a MMP. For most of us who have lived in New York all our lives, we'd rather eat shoe leather than drive behind those "drivers". Reminder, I'm not talking about those going 57 in a 60 zone or 18 on a MMP, I'm talking about the road litter that is so ridiculous that you just want to get a bulldozer and plow them off to the side.

I was referring to the MMP not a highway. Comparing the two is apples and oranges.

[Bogie Shooter]

Why not?

Poster said he was fearful.

[Bogie Shooter]

This thread has ben on the topic of side striping, with a few diversions to stripping. If we all want to talk about regulating the speed of a cart, let's do this in its own thread. I am sure this topic will fire-up a lot of folks and the topic deserves a specific thread.

It's been beat to death on more than one thread.

[golfing eagles]

I was referring to the MMP not a highway. Comparing the two is apples and oranges.

How so??? In both cases your travel time is essentially doubling due to the ineptness of the other driver, who should probably be driving a tricycle in the first place.

[Polar Bear]

Probably, but side striping was introduced as a safety idea. Part of the argument against striping was based on the concept that it would not improve safety, but regulating speed by impairing a vehicle would, in the belief that speed was the major cause of safety issue, not visibility. So while it probably deserves it's own thread, it also has relevance to this one.

I'm with Mleeja...very little relevance. Speed limits never have and never should (imo of course) be a factor in the performance of any vehicle.

Safe passing is a legitimate reason to moderately and briefly exceed the speed limit. Emergencies is another. But even without these situations, governing the vehicle based on a somewhat arbitrary, variable, and very possibly changing speed limit is a very bad idea.

[golfing eagles]

I'm with Mleeja...very little relevance. Speed limits never have and never should (imo of course) be a factor in the performance of any vehicle.

Safe passing is a legitimate reason to moderately and briefly exceed the speed limit. Emergencies is another. But even without these situations, governing the vehicle based on a somewhat arbitrary, variable, and very possibly changing speed limit is a very bad idea.

So, in other words, you agree with me.

[Polar Bear]

So, in other words, you agree with me.

About the need to pass safely? Sure.

[golfing eagles]

About the need to pass safely? Sure.

Agreed. Which is the main reason it makes little sense to put governors on carts at 20 mph when that it is the speed limit. Would you buy a car that could never go more than 65 MPH?

[Polar Bear]

Agreed. Which is the main reason it makes little sense to put governors on carts at 20 mph when that it is the speed limit. Would you buy a car that could never go more than 65 MPH?

Are you directing that comment to me? I've expressed my agreement that vehicle speed governors is a very bad idea. :)

[Mleeja]

Let me ask you a question....Mleeja.

Do you think a center line would accomplish the same thing as side stripping?

I am a supporter of striping. I've made this quite clear in my comments. (I have ZERO association with the POA) The issue generating the discussion is side striping. Do I think a center stripe could accomplish the same as side striping, yes and no. A center stripe will certainly provide a reference for the driver in darkness and rainy weather while defining the "lanes". Where the center stripe has its shortcomings is when you have on coming headlights blinding you. You will naturally look away from the light. Having the side stripe will provide a point of reference for the right hand side of the MMP.

The reflective nature of the stripes will define the path ahead of you far more than just with your headlights on the current MPPs. On several occasions I have offered to meet anyone at 6:30 in the morning. We would take a drive down the MMP on El Camino, then down Enrique Drive where the cart lane is marked with a reflective stripe to demonstrate how much better and further you can see the cart lane. To date no takers....

In utopia, we would have both center and side striping. In TV, except for district 4 where there is a center stripe, we have neither.

The latest plan by TV is a good alternative. I will support this plan as it will improve safety on the MMPs.

[golfing eagles]

Are you directing that comment to me? I've expressed my agreement that vehicle speed governors is a very bad idea. :)

The agreed part was for you. The governor comment was for the one who originally suggested it. The car comment was for general consumption

[Polar Bear]

The agreed part was for you. The governor comment was for the one who originally suggested it. The car comment was for general consumption

Ahh. :)

[Barefoot]

345 posts. Does everyone agree on center striping as a compromise? :popcorn:

[Mleeja]

345 posts. Does everyone agree on center striping as a compromise? :popcorn:

I don't think you will get agreement on any type of striping. There are the "personal responsibility" folks that will not support any safety improvements to the paths.

[Mleeja]

The agreed part was for you. The governor comment was for the one who originally suggested it. The car comment was for general consumption

Have you all read the proposal from, I believe, a District 6 Board member on her suggestions for improving cart safety?

[Callaway Guy]

345 posts. Does everyone agree on center striping as a compromise? :popcorn:

I'm not in favor of either, but if the three supervisors must recklessly spend our money in CDD 8, I'd rather see center stripes to help keep the visually impaired from crossing the center and crashing into my wife or I. A crash off the side of a MMP into a bush is more survivable to most than a head on into another cart. To the "Rogue 3" - please use the common sense God gave you and stop the nonsense.

[Ooper]

I've read all these arguments pro and con for side striping, center striping, etc. and how it is going to keep people from driving off the paths, cause fewer accidents, etc. Many of the streets in The Villages have no side striping, they just have the concrete rain gutters that mark the edges of the road, much like the concrete edges on the MMP's. How come people aren't in an uproar to have all this striping on our roads. Do we often read how people drive off the roads because there is no side striping? Do we read how often people cross the center lines of our roads because there are no center stripes. I'm not talking about our main roads like Buena Vista or Morse, I'm talking about the majority of our village roads once you are inside the gates. I just find this perplexing.

[golfing eagles]

Have you all read the proposal from, I believe, a District 6 Board member on her suggestions for improving cart safety?

Couldn't find it, do you know where I can?

[Walter123]

I am a supporter of striping. I've made this quite clear in my comments. (I have ZERO association with the POA) The issue generating the discussion is side striping. Do I think a center stripe could accomplish the same as side striping, yes and no. A center stripe will certainly provide a reference for the driver in darkness and rainy weather while defining the "lanes". Where the center stripe has its shortcomings is when you have on coming headlights blinding you. You will naturally look away from the light. Having the side stripe will provide a point of reference for the right hand side of the MMP.

The reflective nature of the stripes will define the path ahead of you far more than just with your headlights on the current MPPs. On several occasions I have offered to meet anyone at 6:30 in the morning. We would take a drive down the MMP on El Camino, then down Enrique Drive where the cart lane is marked with a reflective stripe to demonstrate how much better and further you can see the cart lane. To date no takers....

In utopia, we would have both center and side striping. In TV, except for district 4 where there is a center stripe, we have neither.

The latest plan by TV is a good alternative. I will support this plan as it will improve safety on the MMPs.

That was an excellent response. Thank you.

[Happydaz]

Striping with side and center lines will turn the Multimodal paths into golf cart highways. It will make the paths less safe for walkers, joggers, and bicyclists. Unfortunately, the only concerns expressed here are about golf carts.

[tomwed]

Striping with side and center lines will turn the Multimodal paths into golf cart highways. It will make the paths less safe for walkers, joggers, and bicyclists. Unfortunately, the only concerns expressed here are about golf carts.
Can you explain the added dangers for bikers and walkers?

[Happydaz]

Can you explain the added dangers for bikers and walkers?

Golf carts may hesitate to cross the center line and try to squeeze by a walker or bicyclist, especially if a cart is coming in the opposite direction. This happens quite often now to bicyclists on narrow roads when cars try to squeeze by. That is why bike groups have to "take the lane" on narrow multi lane roads such as Morse and Buena Vista as there is not enough room for a car and a bicycle. They may hit the bicyclist, jogger, or walker. Golf carts may also do more tight maneuvers. They might stay in their lane as long as possible and go around a walker, jogger, or bicyclist at the last moment and then return to their lane too quickly after they think they have cleared the slower moving people. Cars do this all the time on highways when they pass other cars or trucks. They pull back into the lane too soon after passing.

Let's face it, joggers, walkers, and bicyclists are already low men on the totem pole and if they put all these lines on the paths it will become more obvious who these paths are for.

[outlaw]

Striping with side and center lines will turn the Multimodal paths into golf cart highways. It will make the paths less safe for walkers, joggers, and bicyclists. Unfortunately, the only concerns expressed here are about golf carts.

I'm a biker, and I think a centerline will make it safer for bikers. Now, many times, an approaching cart from the other direction will not hesitate to come into my side of the path to cut the curve or to pas others. I have had some very close calls with this scenario. the "expert" engineer that did the study stated that he witnessed the MMP in CCD4 with the centerline. He said that carts passing others crossed over the centerline and quickly got back in their proper lane as opposed to crossing over and then meandering down the wrong side of the lane for a greater distance. That was his logic for the centerline being unsafe!

[DonH57]

Striping with side and center lines will turn the Multimodal paths into golf cart highways. It will make the paths less safe for walkers, joggers, and bicyclists. Unfortunately, the only concerns expressed here are about golf carts.

I believe that was one of the reasons expressed by the engineering firm the districts hired for a survey or whatever they called it for not striping. Striping the paths will give cart drivers an even more belief the paths are for golf carts only. I'm sure all of us have or will witness joggers having to jump away to avoid getting hit by the cart driver determined not to be impeded by others for whatever reason .:shrug:

[biker1]

That is one of the reasons why most serious cyclists will not ride on the MMPs - too dangerous.

I'm a biker, and I think a centerline will make it safer for bikers. Now, many times, an approaching cart from the other direction will not hesitate to come into my side of the path to cut the curve or to pas others. I have had some very close calls with this scenario. the "expert" engineer that did the study stated that he witnessed the MMP in CCD4 with the centerline. He said that carts passing others crossed over the centerline and quickly got back in their proper lane as opposed to crossing over and then meandering down the wrong side of the lane for a greater distance. That was his logic for the centerline being unsafe!

[billethkid]

There always seems a need for an ongoing reminder that:

CArt paths are the paths on the golf course.

MMP are the paths connecting the rest of TV on which along with walkers, runners, bikers, golf carts are ALLOWED!!

I find the ongoing, seems like forever, discussions about the MMPs and what is needed for safety if unduly focused on golf carts.

The other misconception that is ongoing is for the few supporters that there are, they think the striping is going to change the behavior of the golf cart driver. It will not.

[tomwed]

Bikers taking the lane is a rub for some Villagers in carts. That's too bad. That's not too much to ask. Carts should get used to their presence and wait until it's safe to pass. Eventually they will. Bike riding has been gaining in popularity for years and the MMP's are so smooth and litter free.

I think the MMP's are currently dangerous and stripes will not change that for walkers. I would look for a sidewalk. If you don't feel safe walking with a child on an MMP, why would you feel safe walking without one? Can you jump out of the way as quickly as a child? Land on your feet? Or if you do hit the ground not break anything?

On a bike most seniors can maneuver almost as quickly as they always have. The MMP's feel safe to me on a bike.

[biker1]

If you are cycling on the MMPs at 10 mph then you may not feel too threatened but I still believe it is a dangerous place to be. If you like to ride at 20 mph the MMPs are not a place you want to be.

Bikers taking the lane is a rub for some Villagers in carts. That's too bad. That's not too much to ask. Carts should get used to their presence and wait until it's safe to pass. Eventually they will. Bike riding has been gaining in popularity years and the MMP's are so smooth and litter free.

I think the MMP's are currently dangerous and stripes will not change that for walkers. I would look for a sidewalk. If you don't feel safe walking with a child on an MMP, why would you feel safe walking without one? Can you jump out of the way as quickly as a child? Land on your feet? Or if you do hit the ground not break anything?

On a bike most seniors can maneuver almost as quickly as they always have. The MMP's feel safe to me on a bike.

[billethkid]

Bikers taking the lane is a rub for some Villagers in carts. That's too bad. That's not too much to ask. Carts should get used to their presence and wait until it's safe to pass. Eventually they will. Bike riding has been gaining in popularity for years and the MMP's are so smooth and litter free.

I think the MMP's are currently dangerous and stripes will not change that for walkers. I would look for a sidewalk. If you don't feel safe walking with a child on an MMP, why would you feel safe walking without one? Can you jump out of the way as quickly as a child? Land on your feet? Or if you do hit the ground not break anything?

On a bike most seniors can maneuver almost as quickly as they always have. The MMP's feel safe to me on a bike.

I think the dialogue should be about why would a walker or biker need to jump out of the way?
We need to at some point recognize the issues being addressed or not is the small perecetage of golf cart drivers behavior is the root cause.....and until and or if that is changed the safety efforts will have little or no impact as it is the major unsafe contributor.

[tomwed]

If you are cycling on the MMPs at 10 mph then you may not feel too threatened but I still believe it is a dangerous place to be. If you like to ride at 20 mph the MMPs are not a place you want to be.

I ride at 19 mph. I have a pedal assist ebike. I feel safer the faster I go. Carts don't pass me very often because I don't hold them up. I'm uncomfortable on BV even at 19 mph when I get squeezed by a car or truck going 35 mph.

[Polar Bear]

...I feel safer the faster I go. Carts don't pass me very often because I don't hold them up...


...The MMP's feel safe to me on a bike.

Agree on both counts.

[tomwed]

I think the dialogue should be about why would a walker or biker need to jump out of the way?
We need to at some point recognize the issues being addressed or not is the small perecetage of golf cart drivers behavior is the root cause.....and until and or if that is changed the safety efforts will have little or no impact as it is the major unsafe contributor.
I was playing in the men's tourney about 3 months ago. I hit a 30 foot putt and as it was about to drop, I jumped in the air in excitement. I pulled a calf muscle. How pathetic that I now need to stretch before putting. How dumb can I get? I'm not young enough to spontaneously jump anymore so now I don't when I putt. I'm not going to stop putting.

I'm afraid to play pickle ball. I think I will instructively do something stupid trying to return a ball that would be routine for me before. I'm growing into my deteriorating body.

You are not going to change the dumb things people like me do. Just look at the gate videos. Some older people more easily panic under pressure.

I pick and choose what's safest for me. It's not a matter of rights or expecting someone else's behavior to change.

[Mleeja]

I think the dialogue should be about why would a walker or biker need to jump out of the way?
We need to at some point recognize the issues being addressed or not is the small perecetage of golf cart drivers behavior is the root cause.....and until and or if that is changed the safety efforts will have little or no impact as it is the major unsafe contributor.

Based on your thesis of personal responsibility, there would be no need for safety belts in cars because we all drive responsibly. There would be no need for traffic signals or lane markings on the highways. There would be no need for warning labels on products because we are do the right thing and use products correctly. But we don't.

Safety devices, warning labels, traffic lane markings, etc. are there to protect us from others, as well as ourselves.

[billethkid]

Based on your thesis of personal responsibility, there would be no need for safety belts in cars because we all drive responsibly. There would be no need for traffic signals or lane markings on the highways. There would be no need for warning labels on products because we are do the right thing and use products correctly. But we don't.

Safety devices, warning labels, traffic lane markings, etc. are there to protect us from others, as well as ourselves.

My post is/was/has been with/about driving golf carts in The Villages.
I do believe there are differing personal responsibilities for the various conveyances. There may be some commonalities but I do not think one would extrapolate that what is appropriate one is therefore applicable to all the others...i.e. planes, trains, automobiles and golf carts. That is me.

You are obviously free to assume what you will except for assigning/assuming my intents.

[Polar Bear]

My post is/was/has been with/about driving golf carts in The Villages.
I do believe there are differing personal responsibilities for the various conveyances. There may be some commonalities but I do not think one would extrapolate that what is appropriate one is therefore applicable to all the others...i.e. planes, trains, automobiles and golf carts...

I think the comparisons are absolutely valid, especially the ones related to markings and other safety features on our road systems.

[biker1]

You need to "own the lane" in order to avoid being squeezed by cars. That is part of cycling 101. I ride BV and Morse regularly and don't have issues. The one time I rode the MMPs I had concerns. Again, the majority of serious cyclists prefer the roads for safety reasons and the quality of the ride. I am sure you like your motorized bike but the majority of serious cyclists are their own engines, are clipped in to their pedals, and having to stop and unclip at every Village entrance is not something most people want to do. You are comparing apples to oranges.

I ride at 19 mph. I have a pedal assist ebike. I feel safer the faster I go. Carts don't pass me very often because I don't hold them up. I'm uncomfortable on BV even at 19 mph when I get squeezed by a car or truck going 35 mph.

[Mleeja]

My post is/was/has been with/about driving golf carts in The Villages.
I do believe there are differing personal responsibilities for the various conveyances. There may be some commonalities but I do not think one would extrapolate that what is appropriate one is therefore applicable to all the others...i.e. planes, trains, automobiles and golf carts. That is me.

You are obviously free to assume what you will except for assigning/assuming my intents.

Let me make sure I am clear on what I am reading. It is your position that someone who speeds on the highways, used power equipment in an unsafe manner, drinks and drives, on-and-on, should/will change up all of their bad habits/attitudes when they get behind the wheel of a golf cart and becasue they should/will do this, extra safety measures are not needed?

[tomwed]

You need to "own the lane" in order to avoid being squeezed by cars. That is part of cycling 101. I ride BV and Morse regularly and don't have issues. The one time I rode the MMPs I had concerns. Again, the majority of serious cyclists prefer the roads for safety reasons and the quality of the ride. I am sure you like your motorized bike but the majority of serious cyclists are their own engines, are clipped in to their pedals, and having to stop and unclip at every Village entrance is not something most people want to do. You are comparing apples to oranges.

If you are cycling on the MMPs at 10 mph then you may not feel too threatened but I still believe it is a dangerous place to be. If you like to ride at 20 mph the MMPs are not a place you want to be.

Unless I am riding an e-bike at 19 mph. Is that correct? As a serious biker you probably experienced taking over a lane in the villages and still having someone pass you on your left and getting too close to your shoulder just to make their point.

[biker1]

You are not a cyclist so I have no clue what you should be doing. I am a cyclist and the MMPs is not a place where most serious cyclists ride. The reason is because of safety and it is not a quality ride. You can try to be clever and parse this any which way you want but it is true.

If you are cycling on the MMPs at 10 mph then you may not feel too threatened but I still believe it is a dangerous place to be. If you like to ride at 20 mph the MMPs are not a place you want to be.

Unless I am riding an e-bike at 19 mph. Is that correct?

[Mleeja]

I ride at 19 mph. I have a pedal assist ebike. I feel safer the faster I go. Carts don't pass me very often because I don't hold them up. I'm uncomfortable on BV even at 19 mph when I get squeezed by a car or truck going 35 mph.

I am not a serious biker, but do ride my bike for exercise. I do not use the MMPs because I feel they are to dangerous for bikers, especially at night or early mornings. To many blind curves and you can't see the edge. Seems like a good place for some edge markings

I would much rather use the residential streets. I have my routes mapped out where I can get my rides in without using the MMP.

[Mleeja]

You are not a cyclist so I have no clue what you should be doing. I am a cyclist and the MMPs is not a place where most serious cyclists ride. The reason is because of safety and it is not a quality ride. You can try to be clever and parse this any which way you want but it is true.

I think you two are arguing the same side of the coin. The MMPs are not a safe place to bike.

[biker1]

Exactly. There are too many places where head on collisions can happen, with carts, walkers, and other cyclists. The tunnels and the Village entrances are problematic if you are clipped into your pedals. The residential streets are good as well as the roads with bike lanes. If you are a strong rider, BV and Morse are fine but a rear facing flashing light and rear view mirror are really needed. The roundabouts require caution as people sometimes merge into the circle without looking.

I am not a serious biker, but do ride my bike for exercise. I do not use the MMPs because I feel they are to dangerous for bikers, especially at night or early mornings. To many blind curves and you can't see the edge. Seems like a good place for some edge markings

I would much rather use the residential streets. I have my routes mapped out where I can get my rides in without using the MMP.

[tomwed]

You are not a cyclist so I have no clue what you should be doing. I am a cyclist and the MMPs is not a place where most serious cyclists ride. The reason is because of safety and it is not a quality ride. You can try to be clever and parse this any which way you want but it is true.
I agree with everything you just said.

[Polar Bear]

You need to "own the lane" in order to avoid being squeezed by cars. That is part of cycling 101. I ride BV and Morse regularly and don't have issues. The one time I rode the MMPs I had concerns. Again, the majority of serious cyclists prefer the roads for safety reasons and the quality of the ride. I am sure you like your motorized bike but the majority of serious cyclists are their own engines, are clipped in to their pedals, and having to stop and unclip at every Village entrance is not something most people want to do. You are comparing apples to oranges.
I fully respect your opinion, and agree that most of the bikers you describe prefer the road. I can see a group of road cyclists, grouped across the lane...claiming the lane...feeling pretty safe on roads like in The Villages. I've been part of such a group. That being said...

I personally might try to think of another word other than "serious" to describe this group of cyclists though. I still consider myself a serious cyclist in the sense that I do it very regularly and do it for exercise, not just casually taking a joy ride. One big difference is that I now most often do it alone and on a hybrid bicycle...on the MMPs.

I would never feel safe on a road like Buena Vista or Morse riding alone, no matter what kind of bike I rode or how fast I traveled or how much I claimed the lane. To me, trying to claim the lane as a lone cyclists is just ticking off lots of automobile drivers. Of course almost all will avoid hitting you. But it only takes one at those kinds of speeds to cause a serious...life-threatening...problem.

Just to present the other perspective, when I ride the MMP, I take certain precautions that are very routine and do not effect the enjoyment or training aspect of my ride...

On typical full width section of path, I keep a good speed. Carts approaching from the rear who need to pass me are not uncommon, but not that frequent either. With no opposing traffic, I simply stay to the right and feel no threat as the cart passes. I may even slow just a bit to make the pass quicker. If there is approaching traffic, I make sure I have a section of grass to ride on for a short period if necessary. It rarely is. My hybrid handles the grass just fine.

As I approach a divided, narrower section of path, I check if any carts are approaching from the rear. If so, and I judge that I cannot make it through the divided section before they catch me (option 1), I slow as needed and ride on the grass a bit, making it very clear to the approaching cart it is clear to pass before the divide (option 2).

And after a couple years of riding, I have yet to have a situation where I couldn't easily adjust my ride to have a brief grass "enable-an-easy-pass" section as needed.

For tunnels and other similar situations, simple common sense precautions are of course necessary. But I've never seen these as problems. The change of grade, gear change requirements, etc. just add a bit of variety to the ride.

Well, there's my two cents. As a lone rider, I would never feel as safe on the road as I do on the MMPs...with or without striping of any kind.

(I realize now that this is a bit off-the-op topic. Please accept my apology and take the content of this post FWIW. :) )

[biker1]

Yes, occasionally that happens. It is a pretty cowardly thing to do. I do know people who have taken down license plate numbers and called the Sheriff. I believe there is a law on the books about intimidating cyclists.

If you are cycling on the MMPs at 10 mph then you may not feel too threatened but I still believe it is a dangerous place to be. If you like to ride at 20 mph the MMPs are not a place you want to be.

Unless I am riding an e-bike at 19 mph. Is that correct? As a serious biker you probably experienced taking over a lane in the villages and still having someone pass you on your left and getting too close to your shoulder just to make their point.

[biker1]

I agree that it is safer to ride in a group on the roads, witnesses are good ;-).

I fully respect your opinion, and agree that most of the bikers you describe prefer the road. I can see a group of road cyclists, grouped across the lane...claiming the lane...feeling pretty safe on roads like in The Villages. I've been part of such a group. That being said...

I personally might try to think of another word other than "serious" to describe this group of cyclists though. I still consider myself a serious cyclist in the sense that I do it very regularly and do it for exercise, not just casually taking a joy ride. One big difference is that I now most often do it alone and on a hybrid bicycle...on the MMPs.

I would never feel safe on a road like Buena Vista or Morse riding alone, no matter what kind of bike I rode or how fast I traveled or how much I claimed the lane. To me, trying to claim the lane as a lone cyclists is just ticking off lots of automobile drivers. Of course almost all will avoid hitting you. But it only takes one at those kinds of speeds to cause a serious...life-threatening...problem.

Just to present the other perspective, when I ride the MMP, I take certain precautions that are very routine and do not effect the enjoyment or training aspect of my ride...

On typical full width section of path, I keep a good speed. Carts approaching from the rear who need to pass me are not uncommon, but not that frequent either. With no opposing traffic, I simply stay to the right and feel no threat as the cart passes. I may even slow just a bit to make the pass quicker. If there is approaching traffic, I make sure I have a section of grass to ride on for a short period if necessary. It rarely is. My hybrid handles the grass just fine.

As I approach a divided, narrower section of path, I check if any carts are approaching from the rear. If so, and I judge that I cannot make it through the divided section before they catch me (option 1), I slow as needed and ride on the grass a bit, making it very clear to the approaching cart it is clear to pass before the divide (option 2).

And after a couple years of riding, I have yet to have a situation where I couldn't easily adjust my ride to have a brief grass "enable-an-easy-pass" section as needed.

For tunnels and other similar situations, simple common sense precautions are of course necessary. But I've never seen these as problems. The change of grade, gear change requirements, etc. just add a bit of variety to the ride.

Well, there's my two cents. As a lone rider, I would never feel as safe on the road as I do on the MMPs...with or without striping of any kind.

(I realize now that this is a bit off-topic. Please accept my apology and take the content of this post FWIW. :) )

[tomwed]

I fully respect your opinion, and agree that most of the bikers you describe prefer the road. I can see a group of road cyclists, grouped across the lane...claiming the lane...feeling pretty safe on roads like in The Villages. I've been part of such a group. That being said...

I personally might try to think of another word other than "serious" to describe this group of cyclists though. I still consider myself a serious cyclist in the sense that I do it very regularly and do it for exercise, not just casually taking a joy ride. One big difference is that I now most often do it alone and on a hybrid bicycle...on the MMPs.

I would never feel safe on a road like Buena Vista or Morse riding alone, no matter what kind of bike I rode or how fast I traveled or how much I claimed the lane. To me, trying to claim the lane as a lone cyclists is just ticking off lots of automobile drivers. Of course almost all will avoid hitting you. But it only takes one at those kinds of speeds to cause a serious...life-threatening...problem.

Just to present the other perspective, when I ride the MMP, I take certain precautions that are very routine and do not effect the enjoyment or training aspect of my ride...

On typical full width section of path, I keep a good speed. Carts approaching from the rear who need to pass me are not uncommon, but not that frequent either. With no opposing traffic, I simply stay to the right and feel no threat as the cart passes. I may even slow just a bit to make the pass quicker. If there is approaching traffic, I make sure I have a section of grass to ride on for a short period if necessary. It rarely is. My hybrid handles the grass just fine.

As I approach a divided, narrower section of path, I check if any carts are approaching from the rear. If so, and I judge that I cannot make it through the divided section before they catch me (option 1), I slow as needed and ride on the grass a bit, making it very clear to the approaching cart it is clear to pass before the divide (option 2).

And after a couple years of riding, I have yet to have a situation where I couldn't easily adjust my ride to have a brief grass "enable-an-easy-pass" section as needed.

For tunnels and other similar situations, simple common sense precautions are of course necessary. But I've never seen these as problems. The change of grade, gear change requirements, etc. just add a bit of variety to the ride.

Well, there's my two cents. As a lone rider, I would never feel as safe on the road as I do on the MMPs...with or without striping of any kind.

(I realize now that this is a bit off-the-op topic. Please accept my apology and take the content of this post FWIW. :) )
I agree with that so much that at the end I had to check the author. I thought I wrote it or was quoted. I am not a serious biker. I get very little exercise with my bike and I bike alone. If there were a group that had hybrids I would love to tag along.

[outlaw]

I fully respect your opinion, and agree that most of the bikers you describe prefer the road. I can see a group of road cyclists, grouped across the lane...claiming the lane...feeling pretty safe on roads like in The Villages. I've been part of such a group. That being said...

I personally might try to think of another word other than "serious" to describe this group of cyclists though. I still consider myself a serious cyclist in the sense that I do it very regularly and do it for exercise, not just casually taking a joy ride. One big difference is that I now most often do it alone and on a hybrid bicycle...on the MMPs.

I would never feel safe on a road like Buena Vista or Morse riding alone, no matter what kind of bike I rode or how fast I traveled or how much I claimed the lane. To me, trying to claim the lane as a lone cyclists is just ticking off lots of automobile drivers. Of course almost all will avoid hitting you. But it only takes one at those kinds of speeds to cause a serious...life-threatening...problem.

Just to present the other perspective, when I ride the MMP, I take certain precautions that are very routine and do not effect the enjoyment or training aspect of my ride...

On typical full width section of path, I keep a good speed. Carts approaching from the rear who need to pass me are not uncommon, but not that frequent either. With no opposing traffic, I simply stay to the right and feel no threat as the cart passes. I may even slow just a bit to make the pass quicker. If there is approaching traffic, I make sure I have a section of grass to ride on for a short period if necessary. It rarely is. My hybrid handles the grass just fine.

As I approach a divided, narrower section of path, I check if any carts are approaching from the rear. If so, and I judge that I cannot make it through the divided section before they catch me (option 1), I slow as needed and ride on the grass a bit, making it very clear to the approaching cart it is clear to pass before the divide (option 2).

And after a couple years of riding, I have yet to have a situation where I couldn't easily adjust my ride to have a brief grass "enable-an-easy-pass" section as needed.

For tunnels and other similar situations, simple common sense precautions are of course necessary. But I've never seen these as problems. The change of grade, gear change requirements, etc. just add a bit of variety to the ride.

Well, there's my two cents. As a lone rider, I would never feel as safe on the road as I do on the MMPs...with or without striping of any kind.

(I realize now that this is a bit off-the-op topic. Please accept my apology and take the content of this post FWIW. :) )

Totally agree. I consider myself a somewhat serious biker. I clip in, have no trouble on the MMPs. Of course, like you, I try to keep to the right as much as possible. I never try to own the lane. I do fine with the tunnels. They actually provide a good break in the steady pace of normal riding. I rarely need to unclip. I do slow to minimum speed many times, adding some balancing technique to my ride. I also climb the tunnel ramp with as much acceleration as I can muster. My wife and I refer to them as "stages" and frequently race to the top. It really does provide substantial additional fitness benefits in my opinion. I have been yelled at to slow down by a cart driver that wanted to pass me. I obliged. He thanked me as he passed. All is good. The own the lane mentality is, imo, why so many people resent bikers. And it's too bad that all bikers have to suffer this resentment because of the few. Own the lane at your peril.

[biker1]

"Owning the lane" is a fundamental safety issue that is promoted by bike groups and law enforcement agencies whenever riding on substandard (width wise) roads. Serious riders practice this routinely on substandard roads (as we have in The Villages). To do otherwise is dangerous. Since you apparently don't see the value in this, and apparently believe you know better than law enforcement and biking groups, I suggest you stay on the MMPs.

Totally agree. I consider myself a somewhat serious biker. I clip in, have no trouble on the MMPs. Of course, like you, I try to keep to the right as much as possible. I never try to own the lane. I do fine with the tunnels. They actually provide a good break in the steady pace of normal riding. I rarely need to unclip. I do slow to minimum speed many times, adding some balancing technique to my ride. I also climb the tunnel ramp with as much acceleration as I can muster. My wife and I refer to them as "stages" and frequently race to the top. It really does provide substantial additional fitness benefits in my opinion. I have been yelled at to slow down by a cart driver that wanted to pass me. I obliged. He thanked me as he passed. All is good. The own the lane mentality is, imo, why so many people resent bikers. And it's too bad that all bikers have to suffer this resentment because of the few. Own the lane at your peril.

[tomwed]

Totally agree. I consider myself a somewhat serious biker. I clip in, have no trouble on the MMPs. Of course, like you, I try to keep to the right as much as possible. I never try to own the lane. I do fine with the tunnels. They actually provide a good break in the steady pace of normal riding. I rarely need to unclip. I do slow to minimum speed many times, adding some balancing technique to my ride. I also climb the tunnel ramp with as much acceleration as I can muster. My wife and I refer to them as "stages" and frequently race to the top. It really does provide substantial additional fitness benefits in my opinion. I have been yelled at to slow down by a cart driver that wanted to pass me. I obliged. He thanked me as he passed. All is good. The own the lane mentality is, imo, why so many people resent bikers. And it's too bad that all bikers have to suffer this resentment because of the few. Own the lane at your peril.
On a mmp you can hug the right and if there is grass still have a place to bail out. The paths are debris free. On the road all the garbage including what falls off the utility trucks ends up next to the curb. That's where you get flats or run into a cutoff 2x4. It's threatening at times and counter intuitive but you are safer in the middle of the right lane if there is no shoulder. Just an opinion not an expert even though like many I've been riding since I was a little boy.

[Happydaz]

On a mmp you can hug the right and if there is grass still have a place to bail out. The paths are debris free. On the road all the garbage including what falls off the utility trucks ends up next to the curb. That's where you get flats or run into a cutoff 2x4. It's threatening at times and counter intuitive but you are safer in the middle of the right lane if there is no shoulder. Just an opinion not an expert even though like many I've been riding since I was a little boy.

I ride with the bike club occasionally on the roads and feel safe on these excursions. When alone I tend to stay on the MM paths. I do take the lane on occasion to ensure my safety. I do this when I am riding around blind curves and also coming to gates. I found if I rode to the far right in these situations some carts would attempt to pass me even though they couldn't see around the curve or had time to pass me before a gate. Taking the lane by riding in the center of the right lane blocked golf carts from passing me in these unsafe situations. All the rest of the time I ride to the far right so carts can easily pass me. I also slow down when the path divides into separate lanes so a cart can get ahead of me as I don't move over once in these narrow lanes. I move at a fast pace of 16 to 25 mph. I have no problems with cart drivers when I follow this program. When it is safe I always let the carts pass me if they want to and are going fast enough to get by me safely.

[Polar Bear]

...Serious riders practice this routinely on substandard roads (as we have in The Villages)...
Not sure if you referencing certain areas, but most of The Villages roads are not substandard.

[dbussone]

Not sure if you referencing certain areas, but most of The Villages roads are not substandard.


PB - I suspect biker is unable to remember which villages in which country he is discussing. The roadways here are better than most in the US, except for the rotaries, of course, which few properly use.

[Happydaz]

PB - I suspect biker is unable to remember which villages in which country he is discussing. The roadways here are better than most in the US, except for the rotaries, of course, which few properly use.

Misunderstandings often interfere with communication. The biker knows where he lives. "Substandard" roads refers to roads like Morse and Buena Vista that are narrower than wider "standard" roads. These narrower roads do not have enough room for a bicyclist to be passed by a car with at least three feet of clearance. That is why the bicyclist needs to ride in the middle of these narrow lanes to stop cars from trying to squeeze by. To pass the bike the car would move over to the other lane.

[golfing eagles]

Misunderstandings often interfere with communication. The biker knows where he lives. "Substandard" roads refers to roads like Morse and Buena Vista that are narrower than wider "standard" roads. These narrower roads do not have enough room for a bicyclist to be passed by a car with at least three feet of clearance. That is why the bicyclist needs to ride in the middle of these narrow lanes to stop cars from trying to squeeze by. To pass the bike the car would move over to the other lane.

Every year, Auburn hosts "The Great Race" which is essentially a mini triathlon. (Trivia---it is named after Captain Miles Keogh, a native Auburnian who is buried at Fort Hill Cemetery about 500 yards from my house. His horse, Commanche, was the only US Army survivor of Little Big Horn.) Anyway, I digress. For about a month prior to the race, our streets are loaded with cyclists practicing/training. I have no problem if they want to own the road, I'm in a better position to look out for their safety than they are. However, not everyone feels that way. I wish they did, because I occasionally ride a bike as well, but they don't. So consider this before getting too committed to "owning the road"
1) Cars have to SHARE the road, golf carts have SHARE the road, so a lot of drivers don't think a cyclist should OWN the road
2) When push comes to shove, they am driving a 4600 pound SUV, you are driving a 20 pound bicycle, so who REALLY owns the road

[Happydaz]

Back to the striping of the golf cart paths. How about some street lights? Maybe the stripes and reflectors need more illumination. Also the golf cart headlights point straight ahead and when you come around a corner the lights do not lilluminate the cart path. Golf cart street lights would add a nice small town feel to the paths. Something to think about. :wave:

[billethkid]

Back to the striping of the golf cart paths. How about some street lights? Maybe the stripes and reflectors need more illumination. Also the golf cart headlights point straight ahead and when you come around a corner the lights do not lilluminate the cart path. Golf cart street lights would add a nice small town feel to the paths. Something to think about. :wave:

golf cart paths are on the golf courses which are not played at night!!

Thought about it...NO!

Would you be willing to be assessed a special fee per month for the small town look....say $100 per month or more?

Maybe I just responded to a bait post:confused:

[Happydaz]

I was kidding. Please excuse me!

[Polar Bear]

..."Substandard" roads refers to roads like Morse and Buena Vista that are narrower than wider "standard" roads. These narrower roads do not have enough room for a bicyclist to be passed by a car with at least three feet of clearance...
Maybe that is way some bicyclists look at it, but I assure, Morse and Buena Vista are not substandard roads.

Some roads...especially interstates and some other high-level roads...may have slightly wider lanes, but that does not make Morse and Buena Vista substandard. Morse and Buena Vista are arterial roads, most likely considered minor arterial roads compared to urban areas. And their cross-section...lane widths, shoulders, etc....easily meet and exceed minimum standards.

Minimum lane width to meet the three-feet-of-clearance criterion is roughly...
* Width for operation of a bicycle = 4 feet (FDOT NHWA)
* Width of average full size sedan = ~6.5 feet (Some are wider)
* Safe clearance criterion = 3 feet
* Total = 13.5 feet minimum lane width

Few roads satisfy this requirement.

Roads do not have to be 13.5 feet to be considered standard by any accepted road design measure. Twelve (12) feet is a very standard lane width for arterial roads, with lanes down to 10 feet considered standard under many conditions.

While I haven't measured them, I'm confident Morse and Buena Vista easily meet these requirements.

[Mleeja]

golf cart paths are on the golf courses which are not played at night!!

Thought about it...NO!

Would you be willing to be assessed a special fee per month for the small town look....say $100 per month or more?

Maybe I just responded to a bait post:confused:

1. Do you even own a golf cart?
2. It is about the money!

[billethkid]

:pray:

[alzjr]

Morse, Buena Vista, El Cameno, Stillwater have been measured and the lane is only 11 feet wide. Substandard in Florida.

[dbussone]

Misunderstandings often interfere with communication. The biker knows where he lives. "Substandard" roads refers to roads like Morse and Buena Vista that are narrower than wider "standard" roads. These narrower roads do not have enough room for a bicyclist to be passed by a car with at least three feet of clearance. That is why the bicyclist needs to ride in the middle of these narrow lanes to stop cars from trying to squeeze by. To pass the bike the car would move over to the other lane.

My guess is you've never driven much on 2 lane country roads which tend to be narrow yet have high speed limits. I seldom had difficulty riding a bike on them (back when I rode a bike) and would never have thought of riding in the middle of the lane to stop cars from squeezing by. Just another example of entitlement ideology. We share, you own.

[biker1]

Reread my post. I referenced the width. "Substandard" does not refer to the condition of the road, only the width.

PB - I suspect biker is unable to remember which villages in which country he is discussing. The roadways here are better than most in the US, except for the rotaries, of course, which few properly use.

[biker1]

Actually BV and Morse are substandard with regard to width. A car and a bike, with the required 3 feet of clearance, cannot coexist in the same lane.

Maybe that is way some bicyclists look at it, but I assure, Morse and Buena Vista are not substandard roads.

Some roads...especially interstates and some other high-level roads...may have slightly wider lanes, but that does not make Morse and Buena Vista substandard. Morse and Buena Vista are arterial roads, most likely considered minor arterial roads compared to urban areas. And their cross-section...lane widths, shoulders, etc....easily meet and exceed minimum standards.

Minimum lane width to meet the three-feet-of-clearance criterion is roughly...
* Width for operation of a bicycle = 4 feet (FDOT NHWA)
* Width of average full size sedan = ~6.5 feet (Some are wider)
* Safe clearance criterion = 3 feet
* Total = 13.5 feet minimum lane width

Few roads satisfy this requirement.

Roads do not have to be 13.5 feet to be considered standard by any accepted road design measure. Twelve (12) feet is a very standard lane width for arterial roads, with lanes down to 10 feet considered standard under many conditions.

While I haven't measured them, I'm confident Morse and Buena Vista easily meet these requirements.

[dbussone]

Reread my post. I referenced the width. "Sunstandard" does refer to the condition of the road, only the width.

Reread Polar Bear's post above. I'll rely on the expertise of a professional engineer, thank you.

[biker1]

The term is "owning the lane", not "owning the road". This is necessary under some circumstances to prevent a car from squeezing you into the curb. The classic example is when riding on a 2-lane road with a double solid line on a curve. Some people will try to pass you if they think they squeeze into the lane with you as opposed to swinging out into the other lane. This is a dangerous situation and is typically avoided by moving left so anyone attempting to pass you has to move into the other lane - something they will hopefully not do on a curve with a double solid line. Riding to the extreme right of the lane is a dangerous way to ride under certain circumstances.

Every year, Auburn hosts "The Great Race" which is essentially a mini triathlon. (Trivia---it is named after Captain Miles Keogh, a native Auburnian who is buried at Fort Hill Cemetery about 500 yards from my house. His horse, Commanche, was the only US Army survivor of Little Big Horn.) Anyway, I digress. For about a month prior to the race, our streets are loaded with cyclists practicing/training. I have no problem if they want to own the road, I'm in a better position to look out for their safety than they are. However, not everyone feels that way. I wish they did, because I occasionally ride a bike as well, but they don't. So consider this before getting too committed to "owning the road"
1) Cars have to SHARE the road, golf carts have SHARE the road, so a lot of drivers don't think a cyclist should OWN the road
2) When push comes to shove, they am driving a 4600 pound SUV, you are driving a 20 pound bicycle, so who REALLY owns the road

[biker1]

Call law enforcement and ask whether those roads are substandard with regard to width and whether a car, a bike, and the required 3 feet of clearance can coexist in the same lane. Here is a hint: they can't.

Reread Polar Bear's post above. I'll rely on the expertise of a professional engineer, thank you.

[outlaw]

I ride with the bike club occasionally on the roads and feel safe on these excursions. When alone I tend to stay on the MM paths. I do take the lane on occasion to ensure my safety. I do this when I am riding around blind curves and also coming to gates. I found if I rode to the far right in these situations some carts would attempt to pass me even though they couldn't see around the curve or had time to pass me before a gate. Taking the lane by riding in the center of the right lane blocked golf carts from passing me in these unsafe situations. All the rest of the time I ride to the far right so carts can easily pass me. I also slow down when the path divides into separate lanes so a cart can get ahead of me as I don't move over once in these narrow lanes. I move at a fast pace of 16 to 25 mph. I have no problems with cart drivers when I follow this program. When it is safe I always let the carts pass me if they want to and are going fast enough to get by me safely.

Good common sense. Most bikers and cart drivers appreciate your sharing of the lane. I find the more room I give a cart, the more room they give me when they pass. It's about sharing, not in your face owning.

[Moderator]

Reminder....topic is striping of Villages multimodal paths. Please stay on topic and do not post personal comments directed at other members.

Moderator

[tomwed]

As long as residents or more likely representatives find a way to pay for something that is all that is needed to not follow the decisions made?

The consistency we have enjoyed these many years is now a neighborhood by neighborhood decision?

It was nice while it lasted these many, MANY years!
I believe the pro-striping folks are being telepathically manipulated by aliens who want to use the paths as runways for their space craft and so does that Chicken fellow.

[golfing eagles]

I believe the pro-striping folks are being telepathically manipulated by aliens who want to use the paths as runways for their space craft and so does that Chicken fellow.

Now, that was funny, and it didn't even go over my head.:bowdown:
Oh yeah, I was shutting up:1rotfl:

[tomwed]

Now, that was funny, and it didn't even go over my head.:bowdown:
Oh yeah, I was shutting up:1rotfl:
Thank-you
I replied to Bullit's post which was #3 by copying Village Chickens response which was #4. It seemed like the groundhog thing to do at the time. We're up to #435.

[golfing eagles]

Thank-you
I replied to Bullit's post which was #3 by copying Village Chickens response which was #4. It seemed like the groundhog thing to do at the time. We're up to #435.

If we make it to 752 we take over 10th place on the hottest threads list (Hall of shame)

[dbussone]

If we make it to 752 we take over 10th place on the hottest threads list (Hall of shame)


Oh no. Not another couple hundred posts about how bicycle riders are the new abused minority.

[Mleeja]

If we make it to 752 we take over 10th place on the hottest threads list (Hall of shame)

After we get done with the bikers, we can discuss regulating the size of tires and the color of windshields.

[dbussone]

After we get done with the bikers, we can discuss regulating the size of tires and the color of windshields.

Those topics will at least be somewhat refreshing.

[billethkid]

I know there may be cause to try to set a record.......maybe we can get the admin to change the name of the thread......I get striping tremors and sometimes stripping too!!!

[dbussone]

There you go!