View Full Version : Is Formal Education important?
Guest
09-24-2008, 08:47 PM
A Friend of Mine sent this to me...I don't know where she got it....if she wrote it...etc...I don't know if this has been sent around or not but I thought it was very interesting food for thought. Not stating MY opinion or trying to start an argument....just wanted to share some interesting facts. IMHO...I would also add ALL of their life experiences as well....but how much formal education should one need to run the country....something we all need to ask ourselves.
If you were The Boss... which team would you hire?
With America facing historic debt, multiple war fronts, stumbling health care, a weakened dollar, all-time high prison population, skyrocketing Federal spending, mortgage crises, bank foreclosures, etc. etc., this is an unusually critical election year. The idea of "leadership" must be broadened from mere "experience" to include knowledge, learnedness and insight.
Let's look at the educational background of your two options:
Obama:
Occidental College - Two years.
Columbia University - B.A. political science with a specialization in international relations.
Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude
& Biden:
University of Delaware - B.A. in history and B.A. in political science.
Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)
vs.
McCain:
United States Naval Academy - Class rank 894 of 899
& Palin:
Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester
North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in journalism
Now, which team are you going to hire ?
Guest
09-24-2008, 08:57 PM
Got this in an email a week or so ago !!! Its ok...I get them from both sides. Amazing how your perspective on an election skews all the info.....you can twist a bunch of facts to twist it to what you want to say.
Not arguing with you just responding ! I care more about character and ability. If the above were all that important, it would be easy to simply choose our leaders, but there is much more to it than that !
Grew up with a guy....#1 in high school class....#1 at Temple Univ in his class....about a year after graduation, he shot and killed two folks..why ? Who the heck knows...but people are not made from education...that is some polish surely....I dont believe that anybody can or should be measured by education whether for President, job or friend !
Choice of advisors, choice of associates, listening skills, judgement...none taught at any school I know !
Guest
09-24-2008, 09:08 PM
Bucco....first I am wondering how you can get to these threads so fast!!
Second...I AGREE! :a040:
We are on a roll....
I was hoping you would write what you did.....I just thought it was interesting though...
Again...we agree on what we want, what we need and the important things....we just disagree on HOW we are going to get it and who is going to help us....lead us rather....
My grandmother said something to me one time...something I will NEVER forget. I was about 14....my older sister was 15. I was an average student...she was valedictorian...I thought at first it was an insult...but over the years is what the best thing anyone has ever said to me...
My grandmother pulled me aside...she said "Honey, your sister may have all the smarts...but you have common sense...and this will get you much farther at times."
So ofcourse I thought she was telling me I was stupid...or had no brains....but as I got older....I realized that common sense will always prevail...and it has gotten me a lot further!! I love when my smart sister calls me for help! LOL
Guest
09-24-2008, 09:10 PM
Cassie, even more deplorable.... Bill Gates, the brilliant guru of Microsoft was a college dropout. Go figure how important all that prestige that you can't eat is! :icon_wink: And the list goes on.....
Guest
09-24-2008, 09:13 PM
Good post Cassie.....I sometimes have the computer in front of me while watching baseball....big fan and with the MLB program canget all the games.....sit here and check every once in a while......only do that sometimes and tonight was one of them...
ALL AMERICANS want the same thing....it is a shame that politics gets in the way. Things are so complex today....read an article today on how we got into this financial situation...will put the link below...it is simple and easy to understand and does not try to place blame.
http://www.kypost.com/content/wcposhared/story.aspx?content_id=fbb5ac95-bcd1-4493-bab6-b3cf58a19377
Guest
09-24-2008, 09:15 PM
The smartest person in my high school class was great in academics, however, didn't have a lick of common sense. When "headhunters" recruit on college campuses they don't necessarily look for the smartest students. They want some one well rounded
Guest
09-24-2008, 09:25 PM
Cassie, even more deplorable.... Bill Gates, the brilliant guru of Microsoft was a college dropout. Go figure how important all that prestige that you can't eat is! :icon_wink: And the list goes on.....
Good point Peachie...that is so true!
Bucco....thank you for the link...will read it shortly....
PS...B....I don't like baseball or sports either...but I PROMISE not to cross over the the sports forum....I think that would be dangerous territory for a princess like me!! LOL :MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot:
Guest
09-24-2008, 09:42 PM
Is it possible to be well educated and have common sense? Reading the above posts might make one assume that the well educated are functional idiots.
Guest
09-24-2008, 10:03 PM
doesn't make the person. It simply means that is where they went to school and what they graduated with.
It says absolutely nothing about ones capability. It may assure potential....assuming the person knows or wants to use it.
I made it a practice in industry to NEVER overlook the non pedigreed candidates.
What tended to be the ultimate sorter was accomplishments. The pedigree in and of itself is just one parameter to help in the decision making process.
It certainly never was the deciding factor to me...I will take the intuitive genius every time over a multi lettered scholar....but that is me.
BTK
Guest
09-24-2008, 11:03 PM
Samhass: "Is it possible to be well educated and have common sense? Reading the above posts might make one assume that the well educated are functional idiots."
__________________________________________________ _________________________________
A few Congressional people come to mind, Sam... :1rotfl: Good to see you're back at the computer!
Guest
09-24-2008, 11:13 PM
The answer to the question "Is formal education important ? " is yes and no. IMHO
People who are 60 and above were born right after the great depression and many of us retirees are children or grandchildren of immigrants. For many bright children from hard working families, education past high school wasn't a viable option, and if any in the family were educated, boys were picked first. As a result, many from my high school graduating class did not go on to college, and yet most of them became successful, in one way or another. Most managed to have nice homes, "steady" work and apparently happy lives.
Guest
09-25-2008, 06:57 AM
Is it possible to be well educated and have common sense? Reading the above posts might make one assume that the well educated are functional idiots.
Oh I didn't mean it to sound like that at all Samm...sorry! I would just say that while I do believe in education and have my degree...that life experiences are some times just as important. But I absolutely believe in a formal education!
My sister is very smart....and while she has common sense...some times I just have to say hhmmmm...... LOL
But that does not mean anything other than my sister makes me laugh...
Guest
09-25-2008, 07:00 AM
I certainly agree that many lesser educated people are brilliant. I just didn't like where this thread was going. It seemed to look down upon those with advanced degrees and find them somehow "lacking". BTW, I am not among those with advanced degrees. I just worked hard, as many in my generation did and was blessed with a decent IQ and a lot of common sense.
Guest
09-25-2008, 07:37 AM
I certainly agree that many lesser educated people are brilliant. I just didn't like where this thread was going. It seemed to look down upon those with advanced degrees and find them somehow "lacking". BTW, I am not among those with advanced degrees. I just worked hard, as many in my generation did and was blessed with a decent IQ and a lot of common sense.
Samhass.....the thread was about the candidates for public office and from my point of view I was responding about THAT PARTICULAR area and nothing more.
An education is vital in todays world, the more the better...my point was only that I felt that character, heart, judgement, etc was more important in electing someone to office !
Guest
09-25-2008, 07:42 AM
A Friend of Mine sent this to me...I don't know where she got it....if she wrote it...etc...I don't know if this has been sent around or not but I thought it was very interesting food for thought. Not stating MY opinion or trying to start an argument....just wanted to share some interesting facts. IMHO...I would also add ALL of their life experiences as well....but how much formal education should one need to run the country....something we all need to ask ourselves.
If you were The Boss... which team would you hire?
With America facing historic debt, multiple war fronts, stumbling health care, a weakened dollar, all-time high prison population, skyrocketing Federal spending, mortgage crises, bank foreclosures, etc. etc., this is an unusually critical election year. The idea of "leadership" must be broadened from mere "experience" to include knowledge, learnedness and insight.
Let's look at the educational background of your two options:
Obama:
Occidental College - Two years.
Columbia University - B.A. political science with a specialization in international relations.
Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude
& Biden:
University of Delaware - B.A. in history and B.A. in political science.
Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)
vs.
McCain:
United States Naval Academy - Class rank 894 of 899
& Palin:
Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester
North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in journalism
Now, which team are you going to hire ?
The team knowledgeable and experienced in the subjects of importance!
The academic credentials of all four candidates mean little, but as a plus I'd lean towards McCain/Palin based on their "business" and "systems management" knowledge.
Contrary to popular belief, a Juris Doctor degree does not make you a know-it-all in reality (only in attitude!). Law degree curricula do not contain any business training at all -nada - none - and some of the worst businessmen in the world are lawyers because of that, and the number of lawyers each year who screw up basic business actions within their practices is immense compared to other businesses.
Right now the economy has the top headlines. Great academic knowledge of Constitutional Law and Political Science (a catch-all pre-law degree) means little to me. I'm more concerned that the "team" understands business finance, systems management and the practicalities associated with managing other people's and their own money.
Lawyers are "support" personnel who provide advice on their areas of speciality within the law, and the recipients of that advice are "business people." Being a lawyer is not a prerequisite for being President, as the President will be surrounded by a small army of lawyers anyway. The trick is knowing how to use the lawyers correctly, and few lawyers even know how to do that.
Guest
09-25-2008, 07:45 AM
Samhass.....the thread was about the candidates for public office and from my point of view I was responding about THAT PARTICULAR area and nothing more.
An education is vital in todays world, the more the better...my point was only that I felt that character, heart, judgement, etc was more important in electing someone to office !
Sorry Bucco. I was the one who did the hijacking. :cry:
Guest
09-25-2008, 07:51 AM
Sorry Bucco. I was the one who did the hijacking.
__________________________________________________ _______
My lips are sealed !!!
Guest
09-25-2008, 08:29 AM
In my 17.75 year fight to get links to and or materials for survivors of crimes in libraries which seems very much a thing of common sense, I have come up against the normal way of doing things which is usually defended by people with quite a number of degrees after their name.
The degrees to me just seem to mean that you know the specialized jargon and how to apply it within a small group of academics.
I remember how many books at the various universities' libraries I have been in had never been opened and were probably never going to be actually checked out and taken home.
I do not really care what Senator John McCain did in his studies back when he was 20 or so. Would like to know how he is going to fix the many problems that this country now has after 8 years of Republican leadership in the White House and about 4 years of it in Congress.
Governor Palin does not strike me as someone who has been in an ivory tower who is really only good for speaking with others who have also been in those ivory towers.
Senator Obama is a great communicator who has mastered how to talk with anyone from any walk of life so I am excited about that. He seems to have that in common with Ronald Reagan if not much else.
Guest
09-25-2008, 08:39 AM
In my 17.75 year fight to get links to resources for survivors of crimes in libraries which seems very much a thing of common sense, I have come up against the normal way of doing things which is usually defended by people with quite a number of degrees after their name.
The degrees to me just seem to mean that you know the specialized jargon and how to apply it within a small group of academics.
I remember how many books at the various universities' libraries I have been in had never been opened and were probably never going to be actually checked out and taken home.
I do not really care what Senator John McCain did in his studies back when he was 20 or so. Would like to know how he is going to fix the many problems that this country now has after 8 years of Republican leadership in the White House and about 4 years of it in Congress.
Governor Palin does not strike me as someone who has been in an ivory tower who is really only good for speaking with others who have also been in those ivory towers.
Senator Obama is a great communicator who has mastered how to talk with anyone from any walk of life so I am excited about that. He seems to have that in common with Ronald Reagan if not much else.
You know Tal, with all of your degrees, to show this humility and deep logic about education, shows you truly are a BRILLIANT person, who by the way is always johhny-on-the-spot with information for us. How many forums have someone with an MLS on board?? We here at TOTV sure are lucky to have YOU!
Whoops. I hijacked again.:(
Guest
09-25-2008, 08:54 AM
In my 17.75 year fight to get links to resources for survivors of crimes in libraries which seems very much a thing of common sense, I have come up against the normal way of doing things which is usually defended by people with quite a number of degrees after their name.
The degrees to me just seem to mean that you know the specialized jargon and how to apply it within a small group of academics.
I remember how many books at the various universities' libraries I have been in had never been opened and were probably never going to be actually checked out and taken home.
I do not really care what Senator John McCain did in his studies back when he was 20 or so. Would like to know how he is going to fix the many problems that this country now has after 8 years of Republican leadership in the White House and about 4 years of it in Congress.
Governor Palin does not strike me as someone who has been in an ivory tower who is really only good for speaking with others who have also been in those ivory towers.
Seantor Obama is a great communicator who has mastered how to talk with anyone from any walk of life so I am excited about that. He seems to have that in common with Ronald Reagan if not much else.
Nor am I impressed with "great orators" as they often are talking heads with excellent theatrical skills but often hampered with little ability otherwise. In my decades in the convince others business, I've found that bipartisanship (whether in the business world or in poliltics) understanding, cooperation and negotiation provides the only true success, and a President who does not have those demonstrated skills and mutual respect from "the other side" is doomed to mediocrity.
Last night President Clinton apeared on the Larry King show. While Pres. Clinton did follow the party position regarding Sen. Obama, Pres.Clinton made it a point to describe Sen. McCain as a professional who worked with Pres. Clinton on many matters (i.e., opening relations with Vietnam , etc.) in the spirit of bipartisanship because it was the right thing to do. While others don't seem to want to remember how Sen. McCain did these things, Pres. Clinton did, an that is significant that he brought this up when he did not have to.
There is a tremendous difference between communicating with one or more in a proactive exchange of ideas, and unilteral broadcasting to a receptive audience not in position to participate in an exchange.
Orators broadcast, and can do so with great persuasiveness to an admiring audience despite no knowledge of the content of the material. Communicators need a combination of knowledge and skill to include the ability to exchange ideas from a technical standpoint and negotiate effectively. We need to insure we don't confuse the skill to negotiate and convince with that of boradcast salesmanship to the masses. No orator has ever been successful in the House or the Senate in effecting the passage of legislation, but a communicator rarely fails.
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