Marxism, Socialism, Communism and Obama

[Guest]

Marxism - In application, this principle means that the present organization of society must be destroyed (even through violent revolution, if necessary, because only through such destruction can a better political, economic, and social organization be achieved. To establish this new format of society, working men (the proletariat) must be organized and take up the struggle against the capitalists who defraud them. Thus the actors in this drama are the social classes -- the proletariat is arrayed against capitalism. This struggle, according to Marx and Engels, will end in victory for the proletariat, that is, in the triumph of universal Socialism.

http://www.radicalacademy.com/philmarx.htm

No links from this point on....just me thinking out loud.

It is surprising that so many educated people seem to deny Obama's ideology is based on moving America toward socialism and beyond. Some may argue we are already there. It doesn't matter what source you give attribution to, what link you post or google....every definition of Marxism, socialism and communism falls within the ideology expressed by Obama. Spreading the wealth, redistribution of wealth, class warfare that pits the middle and lower classes against capitalists (this is a new extension of the Proletariat as earlier failures were attributed to the non-inclusion of the middle class), and punishing capitalists through taxation are all part of the Marxist mantra. To be fair, he advocates a "soft" Marxism as opposed to William Ayers and other "friends" who believed it had to be accomplished by violence. Marx envisioned socialism and eventually communism as a worldwide political-economic system....just like Obama's friend George Soros. It gives new meaning to Obama's campaign excursions to Europe if you look at it from that perspective.

I said Obama advocates at this point in time, "soft" Marxism. My concerns are some overtones that suggest a more sinister agenda. The Fairness Doctrine whereby Democratic liberals want to silence conservative talk shows, flies directly in the face of freedom of speech. They have already tried once recently. The other day, I heard a Nevada democrat say they were going to resurrect it when Obama gets in and they have control of Congress. My God, isn't anyone else alarmed? It reeks of totalitarianism. It flies in the face of the First Amendment. Obama has already started to attack talk show hosts with Conservative views.

Obama's Global Poverty Act that would provide a tax on America to fight global poverty sounds good. Did you read the part where that bastion of honor and integrity, the United Nations is going to set the tax rate and control distribution. Universal Socialism? Score another round for Karl.

How about another Obama supported initiative? He is for open union elections. Union leaders say they just want the right to have open elections and anyone who wants to vote secretly would be afforded that opportunity. What a misrepresentation, as if unions were above intimidating and seeking retribution against those that opted to vote secretly. If you disagree, you don't know how unions work. Where is Jimmy Hoffa? This certainly would feed the Marxist tenet that working men need to be organized. It would also be beneficial in securing the vote for Marxists and help the proletariat rise against the capitalists.

It is one thing to acknowledge and admit that Obama is influenced by Marxist ideologies and he intends to bring them into the nation's highest office. It is quite another to deny what he is and support him as a stealth candidate. As Bucco has pointed out for a long time, his influences are a litany of radical leftists and communists. Why wouldn't Obama acknowledge that he is running on a socialist platform and is influenced by the principles of Marxism. If the United States is ready for that.....so be it. What part of Marxism doesn't Obama agree with in any of his policies?

It is not my intention to incite political passions with this post. I'm here because I enjoy the interaction and exchange of ideas. The therapeutic benefit is a bonus. I sincerely would like to hear the defense of Obama and hope I can learn something that will put my points into perspective and make me more at ease with his candidacy. I know I've used terms that are alarming but I believe they need to be discussed and not treated as a "do not enter" zone.

Wait...who's that knocking on my door?

[Guest]

Even John McCain said that Obama was not a "socialist"...just leans to the left....a little further than some would like....especially those that lean all the way to the right!

[Guest]

Obama was not a "socialist"...just leans to the left....a little further than some would like....
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Is that like being a "little pregnant", Cassie? ;)

[Guest]

while i would like to get into this arguement, dont think it would help... you can talk till your blue, and still not change anyones opinion. Beside i am waiting for the next remark from Joe Da-Plumber on the campaign trail for the McPalin party. Maybe it will be this if McPalin doesnt win this time.
2012
Palin-Da Pluber for Presidnet

[Guest]

Plumbers and blue collar people don't get much respect, do they, GMoney? These are the people that are the salt of the earth and their opinion does count.

[Guest]

Why is it, the only thing the conservative right can do is campaign from a position of fear? Is it perhaps the right wingers have nothing constructive to add to this or any political race. The only message that comes through to me, is, if I don't believe in your view of things, then I am a pinko, un-American, unpatriotic, godless, etc. or oh yes, a terrorist. Come on, give me and other Americans who have gone beyond the third grade a break. Tell me what the conservative right is going to do for me and my country, besides inciting hatred and disgust. I for one have had it with all the ditto heads that can't think for themselves. You have the right to your opinion, and the good news is, so do I and the millions of others who support Obama in the race for the Presicency of The United States of America. Yes, that's right, I said the United States, not my states, or your states, but our United States of America. God bless our troops, our leaderes, and above all, we the people of the United States of America.

[Guest]

GMoney....I am not trying to change anyone's mind. I thought that was clear. You have have made some interesting, articulate and thought provoking posts. I would sincerely like to hear your views and the views of others, on this topic.

[Guest]

Jim007...good post....perhaps you would like to respond directly to the points in the topic to make your case through civil discourse without the labels. You don't know me or my political influences. Addressing the topic specifically instead of attacking the messenger would be interesting and preferable to a rant and hijack. Thank you for your service.

[Guest]

Obama was not a "socialist"...just leans to the left....a little further than some would like....
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Is that like being a "little pregnant", Cassie? ;)

I don't know Peachie...ask McCain....he said it!! In fact that it what my post says....EVEN John McCain said....etc....
__________________________________________________ _______________

Today 10:56 AM
Peachie: Plumbers and blue collar people don't get much respect, do they, GMoney? These are the people that are the salt of the earth and their opinion does count.


As for this comment....I agree blue collar workers are the salt of the earth....but Joe the Plumber is not a good example of one. He has not educated himself about the things he is talking about. McCain and Palin should be ashamed of themselves for putting him on the stage. I am all for using the average American....but educate them about the things they are talking about! EVEN Fox news went after him and questioned what he was saying.

Shame on McCain/Palin and there camp for allowing him to represent the average Joe....or Jane....or anyone!!! They should be embarrassed and lock him up until the presidency is announced. This guy is just looking to make money off of them....and he is shaming so many!!

[Guest]

while i would like to get into this argument, don't think it would help... you can talk till your blue, and still not change anyones opinion. Beside i am waiting for the next remark from Joe Da-Plumber on the campaign trail for the McPalin party. Maybe it will be this if McPalin doesn't win this time.
2012
Palin-Da Plumber for President



STOP....you are scaring me!! YIKES!!!

[Guest]

Plumbers and blue collar people don't get much respect, do they, GMoney? These are the people that are the salt of the earth and their opinion does count.


you might want to watch the video of him, no one is putting down plumbers, you need to watch video. maybe you will see. refer to other post about Plumber on the trail.
Beside wasnt it McPalin who started the "Joe Da-Plumber" They got a winner with this cat... Espcially his remarks on Israel.
Nothing to do with respect, he wants it, needs to learn how to get it.

[Guest]

I think I missed your point, GMoney, because it is a put-down for plumbers and other blue collars. Very few plumbers or blue collars are Columbia/Harvard grads or lawyers and they haven't mastered the spin and rehearsed answers by polished politicians. Some have more education than others but on the whole, they are part of the foundation of America, hardworking and producing the labor that really makes the economy work. Evaluating them from the ends of our noses says more about us, not the plumbers or blue collars. (God love 'em).

[Guest]

My father in law is a retired carpenter....he is one of the most well educated men I have ever met....he has his high school diploma....he is a self taught very educated blue collar retired worker. He is who I go to for answers to a lot of my questions.

There are many more like him!! Joe The Plumber is not.....

They should have chosen a little better!! That is the point....the only point....

[Guest]

GMoney....I am not trying to change anyone's mind. I thought that was clear. You have have made some interesting, articulate and thought provoking posts. I would sincerely like to hear your views and the views of others, on this topic.

I am just saying great input, a person can spin anything to benefit what need they are wanting to look that need to look good.
Just like the opinion on ayers, that can be made to look bad as palind did when she said it. but when one looks deeper they can spin Liddy back at you. same difference.
i believe what Palin is talking about in Alaska is a form of Socialism. I believe that McCain is going to do the same as Bush, dont believe him on earmarks. He complains about obama and 3 million on a overhead projector that isnt a overhead projector at all. he said the spending the money on bear DNA is criminal, but he voted to appove it.
Depending on how you view you choice for President, will change how you view articles, statements, and even someones opionion on a topic. I wish i had a penny everytime someone told me what a bad choice i was making when i voted for Bush,Clinton, Bush "older one" and so on. I was so against Clinton just because of the Draft Deal, i was sure people would not vote him into office as Commander in Chief, again wrong. Turns out he was pretty good President. GO figure.
Therefore i try not to get so into these types of deals anymore. I really Believe in Change, dont see Rep doing that. Might be wrong choice, but you never will have change unless you make it happen..

[Guest]

I think I missed your point, GMoney, because it is a put-down for plumbers and other blue collars. Very few plumbers or blue collars are Columbia/Harvard grads or lawyers and they haven't mastered the spin and rehearsed answers by polished politicians. Some have more education than others but on the whole, they are part of the foundation of America, hardworking and producing the labor that really makes the economy work. Evaluating them from the ends of our noses says more about us, not the plumbers or blue collars. (God love 'em).


Hope we are on the same planet here. Has nothing to do with what ever it is you after. By the way, my son that drives the red trucks for plumbing company in Leesburg said Joe Da-Plumber even offended them. Go Figure. Cabo see what i am saying...



Often the hands will solve a mystery that the intellect has struggled with in vain. ~Carl G. Jung

[Guest]

I think it is interesting how we place people to the right or the left. A few years ago, McCain was considered a moderate. If Harry Truman were a candidate today, I have no doubt that he would NOT be a democrat. In the past 60 years, values of both parties have changed. Both parties have moved to the left. So, whether Obama takes us on a crash collision with what is LEFT, or if it is a slower process through McCain, we are still moving toward the left. I know one thing for sure. If Obama wins November 4th, and if the democrats maintain control of the house and senate, that is a sure guarantee that the GOP will take control of Congress in 2010.

Winds of approval of any president blow both ways for both parties. I don't expect that whoever is elected President will have above a 30% approval rating after the first year in office. One thing is for sure, both candidates have their work cut out for them, whether they be in the Oval office, or back in the Senate.:undecided:

[Guest]

Sipedo, I think your observation is right on.

GMoney and Cassie, you are giving license to people to talk down to "da" plumbers and "da" carpenters. Obviously, at times there are wiser people than these individuals so let's give them degrading monikers, (and no one is correct 100% of the time). I suggest you vote your vote and drop the da plumber routine.

[Guest]

Sipedo, I think your observation is right on.

GMoney and Cassie, you are giving license to people to talk down to "da" plumbers and "da" carpenters. Obviously, at times there are wiser people than these individuals so let's give them degrading monikers, (and no one is correct 100% of the time). I suggest you vote your vote and drop the da plumber routine.

:faint:

[Guest]

Now, GMoney, you can't be pro-Obama and fainthearted, can you? Lol!:1rotfl:
We could bring in "da" doctor for you....

[Guest]

Now, GMoney, you can't be pro-Obama and fainthearted, can you? Lol!:1rotfl:
We could bring in "da" doctor for you....

Doctor does sound alot more edumacated than Da-Plumber. :1rotfl:

[Guest]

GMoney: Doctor does sound alot more edumacated than Da-Plumber.
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I agree with you GMoney and in deference to your son and his hard working co-workers I will stick with "the" plumber. I'm sure he appreciates the respect!:agree:



Cabo, sorry for the hijack of your thought provoking thread:

Marxism, Socialism, Communism and Obama

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marxism - In application, this principle means that the present organization of society must be destroyed (even through violent revolution, if necessary, because only through such destruction can a better political, economic, and social organization be achieved. To establish this new format of society, working men (the proletariat) must be organized and take up the struggle against the capitalists who defraud them. Thus the actors in this drama are the social classes -- the proletariat is arrayed against capitalism. This struggle, according to Marx and Engels, will end in victory for the proletariat, that is, in the triumph of universal Socialism.

http://www.radicalacademy.com/philmarx.htm

No links from this point on....just me thinking out loud.

It is surprising that so many educated people seem to deny Obama's ideology is based on moving America toward socialism and beyond. Some may argue we are already there. It doesn't matter what source you give attribution to, what link you post or google....every definition of Marxism, socialism and communism falls within the ideology expressed by Obama. Spreading the wealth, redistribution of wealth, class warfare that pits the middle and lower classes against capitalists (this is a new extension of the Proletariat as earlier failures were attributed to the non-inclusion of the middle class), and punishing capitalists through taxation are all part of the Marxist mantra. To be fair, he advocates a "soft" Marxism as opposed to William Ayers and other "friends" who believed it had to be accomplished by violence. Marx envisioned socialism and eventually communism as a worldwide political-economic system....just like Obama's friend George Soros. It gives new meaning to Obama's campaign excursions to Europe if you look at it from that perspective.

I said Obama advocates at this point in time, "soft" Marxism. My concerns are some overtones that suggest a more sinister agenda. The Fairness Doctrine whereby Democratic liberals want to silence conservative talk shows, flies directly in the face of freedom of speech. They have already tried once recently. The other day, I heard a Nevada democrat say they were going to resurrect it when Obama gets in and they have control of Congress. My God, isn't anyone else alarmed? It reeks of totalitarianism. It flies in the face of the First Amendment. Obama has already started to attack talk show hosts with Conservative views.

Obama's Global Poverty Act that would provide a tax on America to fight global poverty sounds good. Did you read the part where that bastion of honor and integrity, the United Nations is going to set the tax rate and control distribution. Universal Socialism? Score another round for Karl.

How about another Obama supported initiative? He is for open union elections. Union leaders say they just want the right to have open elections and anyone who wants to vote secretly would be afforded that opportunity. What a misrepresentation, as if unions were above intimidating and seeking retribution against those that opted to vote secretly. If you disagree, you don't know how unions work. Where is Jimmy Hoffa? This certainly would feed the Marxist tenet that working men need to be organized. It would also be beneficial in securing the vote for Marxists and help the proletariat rise against the capitalists.

It is one thing to acknowledge and admit that Obama is influenced by Marxist ideologies and he intends to bring them into the nation's highest office. It is quite another to deny what he is and support him as a stealth candidate. As Bucco has pointed out for a long time, his influences are a litany of radical leftists and communists. Why wouldn't Obama acknowledge that he is running on a socialist platform and is influenced by the principles of Marxism. If the United States is ready for that.....so be it. What part of Marxism doesn't Obama agree with in any of his policies?

It is not my intention to incite political passions with this post. I'm here because I enjoy the interaction and exchange of ideas. The therapeutic benefit is a bonus. I sincerely would like to hear the defense of Obama and hope I can learn something that will put my points into perspective and make me more at ease with his candidacy. I know I've used terms that are alarming but I believe they need to be discussed and not treated as a "do not enter" zone.

Wait...who's that knocking on my door?

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Last edited by cabo35; Today at 09:52 AM.

[Guest]

Wait...who's that knocking on my door?

Probably the school yard monitor! "play nice, no fighting"

[Guest]

Wait...who's that knocking on my door?

Probably the school yard monitor! "play nice, no fighting"

:1rotfl: Son agrees with you, Daughter "Da-Beauticain" thinks differently.. Just joking..
Cabo it is a good thread...

[Guest]

Obama has the most liberal voting record in the Senate. I assume that means he is to the left of Bernie Sanders, an admitted socialist.

[Guest]

Obama has the most liberal voting record in the Senate. I assume that means he is to the left of Bernie Sanders, an admitted socialist.



“The essence of the Liberal outlook lies not in what opinions are held, but in how they are held: instead of being held dogmatically, they are held tentatively, and with a consciousness that new evidence may at any moment lead to their abandonment.”
Bertrand Russell quotes

Definitions of liberal on the Web:

broad: showing or characterized by broad-mindedness; "a broad political stance"; "generous and broad sympathies"; "a liberal newspaper"; "tolerant ...
having political or social views favoring reform and progress
tolerant of change; not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or tradition
a person who favors a political philosophy of progress and reform and the protection of civil liberties
big: given or giving freely; "was a big tipper"; "the bounteous goodness of God"; "bountiful compliments"; "a freehanded host"; "a handsome allowance"; "Saturday's child is loving and giving"; "a liberal backer of the arts"; "a munificent gift"; "her fond and openhanded grandfather"
free: not literal; "a loose interpretation of what she had been told"; "a free translation of the poem"
a person who favors an economic theory of laissez-faire and self-regulating markets

[Guest]

...if Obama gets elected than if McCain is elected and continues the Bush programs, as he's said he would.

In case anyone missed it, large chunks of our economy have already been socialized, and it looks like there's more to come. That's been the result of and under the administration of a supposedly conservative, Republican President who had a Congress of his own party for six of the eight years of his administration.

There's a word that maybe we should be considering when we decide to vote for a President and surmising how they might perform. "Democrat" or "Republican" seem as if they are far less important than competent.

[Guest]

Seems to me the economy was doing well, unemployment was down, gas prices were down until two years ago when the Democrats took over. It's been down hill ever since.

[Guest]

that will be the result of obama's plans for america....

[Guest]

Seems to me the economy was doing well, unemployment was down, gas prices were down until two years ago when the Democrats took over. It's been down hill ever since.

I think you've been drinking that cool aid the conservative right has been passing off for water. You must have been a sleep for the past 8 years.

[Guest]

Perhaps those thinking about "change" are ready for the govt to take over the 401k's as was recently suggested "for safety". The proposed guaranteed rate of return would be 3%. Let's see, that would about 24 years to double your investment as opposed to about 7 years with a 10% ROR.

I think everyone in TV should "donate" 50% of their retirement nest egg to some nice folks who don't happen to have one for any reason you can name. 'Cause gee, after all, they have a "right" to a comfortable retirement too.

Come on folks!! Let's step up and vote for the "Change" we need.

[Guest]

I think everyone in TV should "donate" 50% of their retirement nest egg to some nice folks who don't happen to have one for any reason you can name. 'Cause gee, after all, they have a "right" to a comfortable retirement too.

Come on folks!! Let's step up and vote for the "Change" we need.

I don't know about you, Captain, but I already lost about 50% of my retirement fund, where have you been over the last couple of months. We have already experienced the largest redistribution of wealth in the past 8 years. It sure didn't go to me! Have you been listening to Exxon’s profits, and the other oil giants. I suppose if I were in the upper crust of society, then I wouldn't worry either. I would just sit on the nine or so homes, eleven or so cars, and only God knows how much cash stashed away in some obscure place, and wait for it to blow over. Well I can't wait, I'm retired and have lost almost 40% of my retirement savings. I for one have run out of time to wait for the fat cats to maybe let a little of it trickle down. We just gave some $700 Billion to the largest companies. How long do you think it take for that to trickle back to us, if it ever does. I just kissed it goodbye.

Yes indeed, come on folks. Continue to stand up and say "Yes We Can". We do need real change, and we need it now. Yes we can, and we will.

[Guest]

Unfortunately, neither McCain or Obama are offering the "correct change".

[Guest]

Crime is contagious....if the government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for the law.
-- Justice Louis Brandeis

[Guest]

I don't know about you, Captain, but I already lost about 50% of my retirement fund, where have you been over the last couple of months. We have already experienced the largest redistribution of wealth in the past 8 years. It sure didn't go to me! Have you been listening to Exxon’s profits, and the other oil giants. I suppose if I were in the upper crust of society, then I wouldn't worry either. I would just sit on the nine or so homes, eleven or so cars, and only God knows how much cash stashed away in some obscure place, and wait for it to blow over. Well I can't wait, I'm retired and have lost almost 40% of my retirement savings. I for one have run out of time to wait for the fat cats to maybe let a little of it trickle down. We just gave some $700 Billion to the largest companies. How long do you think it take for that to trickle back to us, if it ever does. I just kissed it goodbye.

Yes indeed, come on folks. Continue to stand up and say "Yes We Can". We do need real change, and we need it now. Yes we can, and we will.

Dreamers think change will make THE difference, change to no experience makes one a dreamer. From where I stand you only have that loss if you sell.Don't be a panic seller and you will not lose. Uncertainty making the market fall you need to hold your course and vote for McCAIN:a040:

[Guest]

a lot of disappointed people....and I don't mean McCain and his supporters. I mean those who have been sucked in and are intoxicated with what they think O is going to do differently than those before him.
Haven't we all been through enough Presidential elections and promises only to sit here once again thinking this time it is going to be different.
Why? Because of some speech maker who until a year ago nobody knew who he was or cared.
I don't think so.
If he does win :ohdear: we will know by the time he makes his first state of the union address. He won't have Bush or McCain to bash.
If some are queasy about how much has been lost in savings, get ready, the O gang hasn't even begun to get in your pocket......

BTK

[Guest]

I just want to say, to all my friends. If you haven't voted yet, get out and vote tomorrow. God bless America and the United States within.