Marxism - In application, this principle means that the present organization of society must be destroyed (even through violent revolution, if necessary, because only through such destruction can a better political, economic, and social organization be achieved. To establish this new format of society, working men (the proletariat) must be organized and take up the struggle against the capitalists who defraud them. Thus the actors in this drama are the social classes -- the proletariat is arrayed against capitalism. This struggle, according to Marx and Engels, will end in victory for the proletariat, that is, in the triumph of universal Socialism.

http://www.radicalacademy.com/philmarx.htm

No links from this point on....just me thinking out loud.

It is surprising that so many educated people seem to deny Obama's ideology is based on moving America toward socialism and beyond. Some may argue we are already there. It doesn't matter what source you give attribution to, what link you post or google....every definition of Marxism, socialism and communism falls within the ideology expressed by Obama. Spreading the wealth, redistribution of wealth, class warfare that pits the middle and lower classes against capitalists (this is a new extension of the Proletariat as earlier failures were attributed to the non-inclusion of the middle class), and punishing capitalists through taxation are all part of the Marxist mantra. To be fair, he advocates a "soft" Marxism as opposed to William Ayers and other "friends" who believed it had to be accomplished by violence. Marx envisioned socialism and eventually communism as a worldwide political-economic system....just like Obama's friend George Soros. It gives new meaning to Obama's campaign excursions to Europe if you look at it from that perspective.

I said Obama advocates at this point in time, "soft" Marxism. My concerns are some overtones that suggest a more sinister agenda. The Fairness Doctrine whereby Democratic liberals want to silence conservative talk shows, flies directly in the face of freedom of speech. They have already tried once recently. The other day, I heard a Nevada democrat say they were going to resurrect it when Obama gets in and they have control of Congress. My God, isn't anyone else alarmed? It reeks of totalitarianism. It flies in the face of the First Amendment. Obama has already started to attack talk show hosts with Conservative views.

Obama's Global Poverty Act that would provide a tax on America to fight global poverty sounds good. Did you read the part where that bastion of honor and integrity, the United Nations is going to set the tax rate and control distribution. Universal Socialism? Score another round for Karl.

How about another Obama supported initiative? He is for open union elections. Union leaders say they just want the right to have open elections and anyone who wants to vote secretly would be afforded that opportunity. What a misrepresentation, as if unions were above intimidating and seeking retribution against those that opted to vote secretly. If you disagree, you don't know how unions work. Where is Jimmy Hoffa? This certainly would feed the Marxist tenet that working men need to be organized. It would also be beneficial in securing the vote for Marxists and help the proletariat rise against the capitalists.

It is one thing to acknowledge and admit that Obama is influenced by Marxist ideologies and he intends to bring them into the nation's highest office. It is quite another to deny what he is and support him as a stealth candidate. As Bucco has pointed out for a long time, his influences are a litany of radical leftists and communists. Why wouldn't Obama acknowledge that he is running on a socialist platform and is influenced by the principles of Marxism. If the United States is ready for that.....so be it. What part of Marxism doesn't Obama agree with in any of his policies?

It is not my intention to incite political passions with this post. I'm here because I enjoy the interaction and exchange of ideas. The therapeutic benefit is a bonus. I sincerely would like to hear the defense of Obama and hope I can learn something that will put my points into perspective and make me more at ease with his candidacy. I know I've used terms that are alarming but I believe they need to be discussed and not treated as a "do not enter" zone.

Wait...who's that knocking on my door?

Even John McCain said that Obama was not a "socialist"...just leans to the left....a little further than some would like....especially those that lean all the way to the right!

Obama was not a "socialist"...just leans to the left....a little further than some would like....
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Is that like being a "little pregnant", Cassie?

while i would like to get into this arguement, dont think it would help... you can talk till your blue, and still not change anyones opinion. Beside i am waiting for the next remark from Joe Da-Plumber on the campaign trail for the McPalin party. Maybe it will be this if McPalin doesnt win this time.
2012
Palin-Da Pluber for Presidnet

Plumbers and blue collar people don't get much respect, do they, GMoney? These are the people that are the salt of the earth and their opinion does count.

Why is it, the only thing the conservative right can do is campaign from a position of fear? Is it perhaps the right wingers have nothing constructive to add to this or any political race. The only message that comes through to me, is, if I don't believe in your view of things, then I am a pinko, un-American, unpatriotic, godless, etc. or oh yes, a terrorist. Come on, give me and other Americans who have gone beyond the third grade a break. Tell me what the conservative right is going to do for me and my country, besides inciting hatred and disgust. I for one have had it with all the ditto heads that can't think for themselves. You have the right to your opinion, and the good news is, so do I and the millions of others who support Obama in the race for the Presicency of The United States of America. Yes, that's right, I said the United States, not my states, or your states, but our United States of America. God bless our troops, our leaderes, and above all, we the people of the United States of America.

GMoney....I am not trying to change anyone's mind. I thought that was clear. You have have made some interesting, articulate and thought provoking posts. I would sincerely like to hear your views and the views of others, on this topic.

Jim007...good post....perhaps you would like to respond directly to the points in the topic to make your case through civil discourse without the labels. You don't know me or my political influences. Addressing the topic specifically instead of attacking the messenger would be interesting and preferable to a rant and hijack. Thank you for your service.

Originally Posted by Peachie

Obama was not a "socialist"...just leans to the left....a little further than some would like....
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Is that like being a "little pregnant", Cassie?

I don't know Peachie...ask McCain....he said it!! In fact that it what my post says....EVEN John McCain said....etc....
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Today 10:56 AM
Peachie: Plumbers and blue collar people don't get much respect, do they, GMoney? These are the people that are the salt of the earth and their opinion does count.


As for this comment....I agree blue collar workers are the salt of the earth....but Joe the Plumber is not a good example of one. He has not educated himself about the things he is talking about. McCain and Palin should be ashamed of themselves for putting him on the stage. I am all for using the average American....but educate them about the things they are talking about! EVEN Fox news went after him and questioned what he was saying.

Shame on McCain/Palin and there camp for allowing him to represent the average Joe....or Jane....or anyone!!! They should be embarrassed and lock him up until the presidency is announced. This guy is just looking to make money off of them....and he is shaming so many!!

Originally Posted by GMONEY

while i would like to get into this argument, don't think it would help... you can talk till your blue, and still not change anyones opinion. Beside i am waiting for the next remark from Joe Da-Plumber on the campaign trail for the McPalin party. Maybe it will be this if McPalin doesn't win this time.
2012
Palin-Da Plumber for President

STOP....you are scaring me!! YIKES!!!

Originally Posted by Peachie

Plumbers and blue collar people don't get much respect, do they, GMoney? These are the people that are the salt of the earth and their opinion does count.

you might want to watch the video of him, no one is putting down plumbers, you need to watch video. maybe you will see. refer to other post about Plumber on the trail.
Beside wasnt it McPalin who started the "Joe Da-Plumber" They got a winner with this cat... Espcially his remarks on Israel.
Nothing to do with respect, he wants it, needs to learn how to get it.

I think I missed your point, GMoney, because it is a put-down for plumbers and other blue collars. Very few plumbers or blue collars are Columbia/Harvard grads or lawyers and they haven't mastered the spin and rehearsed answers by polished politicians. Some have more education than others but on the whole, they are part of the foundation of America, hardworking and producing the labor that really makes the economy work. Evaluating them from the ends of our noses says more about us, not the plumbers or blue collars. (God love 'em).

My father in law is a retired carpenter....he is one of the most well educated men I have ever met....he has his high school diploma....he is a self taught very educated blue collar retired worker. He is who I go to for answers to a lot of my questions.

There are many more like him!! Joe The Plumber is not.....

They should have chosen a little better!! That is the point....the only point....

Originally Posted by cabo35

GMoney....I am not trying to change anyone's mind. I thought that was clear. You have have made some interesting, articulate and thought provoking posts. I would sincerely like to hear your views and the views of others, on this topic.

I am just saying great input, a person can spin anything to benefit what need they are wanting to look that need to look good.
Just like the opinion on ayers, that can be made to look bad as palind did when she said it. but when one looks deeper they can spin Liddy back at you. same difference.
i believe what Palin is talking about in Alaska is a form of Socialism. I believe that McCain is going to do the same as Bush, dont believe him on earmarks. He complains about obama and 3 million on a overhead projector that isnt a overhead projector at all. he said the spending the money on bear DNA is criminal, but he voted to appove it.
Depending on how you view you choice for President, will change how you view articles, statements, and even someones opionion on a topic. I wish i had a penny everytime someone told me what a bad choice i was making when i voted for Bush,Clinton, Bush "older one" and so on. I was so against Clinton just because of the Draft Deal, i was sure people would not vote him into office as Commander in Chief, again wrong. Turns out he was pretty good President. GO figure.
Therefore i try not to get so into these types of deals anymore. I really Believe in Change, dont see Rep doing that. Might be wrong choice, but you never will have change unless you make it happen..

Originally Posted by Peachie

I think I missed your point, GMoney, because it is a put-down for plumbers and other blue collars. Very few plumbers or blue collars are Columbia/Harvard grads or lawyers and they haven't mastered the spin and rehearsed answers by polished politicians. Some have more education than others but on the whole, they are part of the foundation of America, hardworking and producing the labor that really makes the economy work. Evaluating them from the ends of our noses says more about us, not the plumbers or blue collars. (God love 'em).

Hope we are on the same planet here. Has nothing to do with what ever it is you after. By the way, my son that drives the red trucks for plumbing company in Leesburg said Joe Da-Plumber even offended them. Go Figure. Cabo see what i am saying...



Often the hands will solve a mystery that the intellect has struggled with in vain. ~Carl G. Jung