Illinois Politics -- Governor arrested

[Guest]

Check < drudgereport.com > for the latest corruption in Illinois politics. This is the latest crime with the last Governor in Prison and two other Governors having recently served hard time for political corruption. Obama comes from this group and his fund raiser in Illinois is about to be sentenced. In Illinois, we have the best polititions that money can buy !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

Check < drudgereport.com > for the latest corruption in Illinois politics. This is the latest crime with the last Governor in Prison and two other Governors having recently served hard time for political corruption. Obama comes from this group and his fund raiser in Illinois is about to be sentenced. In Illinois, we have the best polititions that money can buy !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lucko:
What took the feds so long to nail this guy? I still have the pleasure to watch Illinois and Chicago politics daily. What a joke.:a040::a040:

[Guest]

Gotta jump in here folks. Being from Chicago, just about a year here, I'm happy this S.O.B. has been arrested. Never did like him.

But, to single out Chicago for dirty politics is just wrong. I don't know where you are all from, but look around you. If you think you're state is exempt from any of this, you're living in a fantasy world.

And yes, I'm still proud that President-elect is from Chicago, and still proud that I am too. :eclipsee_gold_cup:

[Guest]

Check < drudgereport.com > for the latest corruption in Illinois politics. This is the latest crime with the last Governor in Prison and two other Governors having recently served hard time for political corruption. Obama comes from this group and his fund raiser in Illinois is about to be sentenced. In Illinois, we have the best polititions that money can buy !!!!!!!!!!!!!


Obama comes from this group I guess you missed the part where, in the wiretaps, the GOV says "F**k Obama. It is being reported that Rahm Emmunel blew the whistle on this jerk.

Here's hoping the former Gov(R) and the current Gov(D) get to share a cell together.

Good honest hard working people don't deserve this kind of leadership from either party.

Book Em Dano!!!

[Guest]

at any level one wants to cite, federal or state, elected or appointed.... are infested with shady characters conducting shady business. The most alarming is the number of people in government who are aware of the crimes being committed yet no disclosure. And worst of all, how we the people don't seem to care (if we really cared we would not be re-electing the wrong doers).
The old you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours has been denigrated to a criminal level.
The irony? Way too many of them are lawyers or legally trained. They of course know where and when they approach the thin ice....then there are the stupid ones as in Illinois who have the gall to step way over the line.
The person who blew the whistle needs to be congratulated.

How much crime and corruption are we willing to allow? Seems there is no limit to our permissiveness.

What will be interesting to watch now is when the in crowd closes ranks and what comes out of this situation.....making it sound like he really didn't do anything "that" bad...a defense that will make many nervous....they all do the same thing....he got caught!!!

Just like in Washington, DC....NO ACCOUNTABILITY RULES THE DAY!!!!
Hence no fear of retribution and they know they will get re elected....sad!!!

BTK

[Guest]

at any level one wants to cite, federal or state, elected or appointed.... are infested with shady characters conducting shady business. The most alarming is the number of people in government who are aware of the crimes being committed yet no disclosure. And worst of all, how we the people don't seem to care (if we really cared we would not be re-electing the wrong doers).
The old you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours has been denigrated to a criminal level.
The irony? Way too many of them are lawyers or legally trained. They of course know where and when they approach the thin ice....then there are the stupid ones as in Illinois who have the gall to step way over the line.
The person who blew the whistle needs to be congratulated.

How much crime and corruption are we willing to allow? Seems there is no limit to our permissiveness.

What will be interesting to watch now is when the in crowd closes ranks and what comes out of this situation.....making it sound like he really didn't do anything "that" bad...a defense that will make many nervous....they all do the same thing....he got caught!!!

Just like in Washington, DC....NO ACCOUNTABILITY RULES THE DAY!!!!
Hence no fear of retribution and they know they will get re elected....sad!!!

BTK

At least we all can feel confident there will be no corruption or double-dealling with any of the bailout moneys doled out now and in the future.......
(Gasp!)

[Guest]

"Obama comes from this group."

What group? Did it escape your attention that including the current Governor, if he is convicted, four of the last seven Illinois Governors dating back to 1968 will have been convicted and served time. Another, dating back to 1953 was tried but acquitted of tax evasion. They came from both political parties and called different parts of the State home. If convicted, the current Governor, a Democrat from Chicago, will join his predecessor, a Republican from Joliet, in federal prison.

The "group" you're referring to certainly doesn't appear to be political party-specific. Nor does it seem to be people from a particular city or region of Illinois. Maybe you're suggesting that all Chicagoans...or all Illinoisans are crooks and aren't to be trusted. No it couldn't be that because you'd be including yourself in a distasteful group, you being from Central Illinois.

Gee, if you're grasping for a reason not to like or support our new President, I'm sure you can come up with stronger justifications than that. In fact, you don't even need a justification. Just say that you dislike and distrust our new President, regardless of what he does and how he conducts himself. That's certainly OK. The U.S. is a free country.

Just don't bother the rest of us with such nonsensical statements.

[Guest]

"Obama comes from this group."

What group? Did it escape your attention that including the current Governor, if he is convicted, four of the last seven Illinois Governors dating back to 1968 will have been convicted and served time. Another, dating back to 1953 was tried but acquitted of tax evasion. They came from both political parties and called different parts of the State home. If convicted, the current Governor, a Democrat from Chicago, will join his predecessor, a Republican from Joliet, in federal prison.

The "group" you're referring to certainly doesn't appear to be political party-specific. Nor does it seem to be people from a particular city or region of Illinois. Maybe you're suggesting that all Chicagoans...or all Illinoisans are crooks and aren't to be trusted. No it couldn't be that because you'd be including yourself in a distasteful group, you being from Central Illinois.

Gee, if you're grasping for a reason not to like or support our new President, I'm sure you can come up with stronger justifications than that. In fact, you don't even need a justification. Just say that you dislike and distrust our new President, regardless of what he does and how he conducts himself. That's certainly OK. The U.S. is a free country.

Just don't bother the rest of us with such nonsensical statements.

:agree::agree::agree::agree:

[Guest]

"Obama comes from this group."

I guess that means that convicted former U.S. senator Ted Stevens and Gov. Sarah Palin are in the same group too? They’ve GOT to be! They’re both from Alaska! Oh brother -

[Guest]

the grou would be "politicians". They are all in the y'owe-me club.
They all say what ever people want to hear. They all seem seem to lack enough insight to blow the whistle on their own. They are all adept of taking care of number one (themselves first). They all have little or no priority for the real needs of we the people. Yes I understand there are some good ones...for politician the reverse paredo (80/20 rule) applies....80% need replacing with 20% learning from the 80% how to keep their job for life without accomplishing much.

And what is so amusing....these are the same clowns who say, we better have government involvement in over seeing catastrophes like the big three bail out :1rotfl::1rotfl: sorry I get a laugh attack every time it comes to mind.

A synonym not in the book...politician = hypocrite!

That is my shot for the day. I feel better already!!

BTK

[Guest]

Don't forget Jim Edgar was almost there with the rest of them. They sent to trial a scape goat Jim Berger and he was found Not Guilty.

[Guest]

If it's true that all politicians are hypocrites, out for themselves, have little or no priority for the needs of the people, etc., we're all in more trouble than we can imagine.

I surely hope our electd representatives are not 80-20 leaning towards the undesirable. Ours is a democracy. It's based on the people being represented by those who will act in their behalf. We have no choice except the democracy that has resulted in the place where we live and work today. If those that are the principal operatives of our system of government are as bad as has been described, woe are we.

[Guest]

Gotta jump in here folks. Being from Chicago, just about a year here, I'm happy this S.O.B. has been arrested. Never did like him.

But, to single out Chicago for dirty politics is just wrong. I don't know where you are all from, but look around you. If you think you're state is exempt from any of this, you're living in a fantasy world.

And yes, I'm still proud that President-elect is from Chicago, and still proud that I am too. :eclipsee_gold_cup:


"Illinois has long legacy of public corruption
At least 79 elected officials have been convicted of wrongdoing since 1972"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28141995/

[Guest]

If it was only 79 in Illinois in the last 35 years, that's not too bad. The count would be at least that high for the U.S. Congress. The last time I did a count for investigations and indictments of Congressmen and Senators, it was about 20--and that was just in the last eight years. If we went back 35 years the list of Congressional perpatrators would be at least as long as Illinois, I'm sure.

Not worth the effort though. However close it might be to 79, it's still too depressing.

[Guest]

If it was only 79 in Illinois in the last 35 years, that's not too bad. The count would be at least that high for the U.S. Congress. The last time I did a count for investigations and indictments of Congressmen and Senators, it was about 20--and that was just in the last eight years. If we went back 35 years the list of Congressional perpatrators would be at least as long as Illinois, I'm sure.

Not worth the effort though. However close it might be to 79, it's still too depressing.



Just responding to the silly attempt to defend Illinois politics !!!!

[Guest]

"Illinois has long legacy of public corruption
At least 79 elected officials have been convicted of wrongdoing since 1972"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28141995/

Where are you from again Bucco? Let's do a little research on your state, shall we? Perhaps there are no checks and balances? Perhaps your politicians are just plain getting away with it? Perhaps, some of you are just too plain dumb to look in the right places? I know you're in The Villages now, but where are you from originally? I knew they'd catch this guy Bucco. You see, in Chicago you can't get away with wrongdoing forever. Unlike some areas. So enlighten us, where are you originally from? :shrug:

You know you're very funny. You actually think people don't see through you. Believe it or not, I've been polite to you up until now. You jabber on incessantly about how you're really going to support our new President and all through the campaign about how you're really middle of the road. Oh, and also your, "I'm not really defending Bush.", etc. On and on. And you think people can't see through all your gibberish.

Talk is cheap, Bucco, and you're full of it. In more ways than one. ;) Oh and trust me, Bucco. In just a few short weeks, you will be saying President Obama and, yes, he is from Chicago -- The City that Works!

On the brighter side, just think of all you'll have to jabber about for the next 8 years. :laugh:

[Guest]

Where are you from again Bucco? Let's do a little research on your state, shall we? Perhaps there are no checks and balances? Perhaps your politicians are just plain getting away with it? Perhaps, some of you are just too plain dumb to look in the right places? I know you're in The Villages now, but where are you from originally? I knew they'd catch this guy Bucco. You see, in Chicago you can't get away with wrongdoing forever. Unlike some areas. So enlighten us, where are you originally from? :shrug:

You know you're very funny. You actually think people don't see through you. Believe it or not, I've been polite to you up until now. You jabber on incessantly about how you're really going to support our new President and all through the campaign about how you're really middle of the road. Oh, and also your, "I'm not really defending Bush.", etc. On and on. And you think people can't see through all your gibberish.

Talk is cheap, Bucco, and you're full of it. In more ways than one. ;) Oh and trust me, Bucco. In just a few short weeks, you will be saying President Obama and, yes, he is from Chicago -- The City that Works!

On the brighter side, just think of all you'll have to jabber about for the next 8 years. :laugh:

WOW...WHAT a rant to simply defend Illinois politics. I simply am pointing out the silliness of your defense. I have said on here many many times that most politicians are a bit crooked at best...seems ONLY those you support are the clean ones however.

For the record I am from Pennsylvania..dont know the record there...no post would have been made if you had not spoken about an area (Chicago and Illinois) that are the poster boys for corruption and have been for some time. That does not make you or anyone else from Illinois or Chicago bad people..it is simply a fact that you surely know !

[Guest]

Chels, I think it is upstanding that you can defend your state. I'm from New Jersey, 'nuff said. Can't really defend my state. One of the reasons we moved and many others also. It is a shame how political corruption can ruin your way of life. Thankfully we found TV because of it. Thank God for corrupt NJ politians.....

[Guest]

WOW...WHAT a rant to simply defend Illinois politics. I simply am pointing out the silliness of your defense. I have said on here many many times that most politicians are a bit crooked at best...seems ONLY those you support are the clean ones however.

For the record I am from Pennsylvania..dont know the record there...no post would have been made if you had not spoken about an area (Chicago and Illinois) that are the poster boys for corruption and have been for some time. That does not make you or anyone else from Illinois or Chicago bad people..it is simply a fact that you surely know !

http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070906/NEWS04/709060308

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/front_page/20080711_12_accused_of_running_Pa__political_machi ne.html

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/press.aspx?id=989

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0207/2695.html

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-1004139.html

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A0DE0DC1E3EF937A25756C0A9609482 60

I could go on and on, but it's getting boring. So here's one more, not necessarily from PA, but still your kind of guys.

http://tabacco.blog-city.com/rogues_gallery_republicans_on_hot_seat_under_indic tment_fire.htm

[Guest]

http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?aid=/20070906/news04/709060308

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/front_page/20080711_12_accused_of_running_pa__political_machi ne.html

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/press.aspx?id=989

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0207/2695.html

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1p2-1004139.html

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9a0de0dc1e3ef937a25756c0a9609482 60



i could go on and on, but it's getting boring. So here's one more, not necessarily from pa, but still your kind of guys.

http://tabacco.blog-city.com/rogues_gallery_republicans_on_hot_seat_under_indic tment_fire.htm


l o l !!! My guy can beat up your guy !!!

Thanks for an early morning laugh !!!!

[Guest]

This is getting silly, again.

There is no place in the US that is corruption-free or crooked-politician-free. It would be nice if that wasn't the case, but that's what it is.

As far as Chicago is concerned, since it is the second-largest city in the nation it can expect to get the second-largest media exposure as well. That goes with the media turf, and the media has played up the Chicago story since the Capone days. It's history and publicity is tied to "The Untouchables," Mayor Edward Kelly, The Daley I years and all of that notoriety. So, when "stuff" surfaces on the current generation of polilticians, the leap is short by the media and everyone touched by it to look back at history and theorize a continuing trend.

My roots go back to Boston, and its a smaller media market, so less of the nastiness has made in onto the Big Screen, the History Channel or 60 minutes. It has had the same problems as New York or Chicago, and that's just the way of it. Ignoring its faults, history or current problems can't change the facts. The trick is to be able to recognize a place for what is is, and is not.

So, one can love a place all one wants, but one cannot deny its national image, which is indeed self-created and exploited for profit.

[Guest]

That was my point SteveZ. If you read my original post, after Lucko decided to bash Chicago, and Bucco piped in, I simply said all of this happens everywhere. Sad, but true.

I was not defending the conduct of this Governor. In fact, as I stated, I was quite happy he was caught. I never did like him.

But don't push around MY city in general, I will defend it to the hilt. When people attack Chicago around me, it's like attacking my family. And trust me, I will not allow that to occur.

[Guest]

That was my point SteveZ. If you read my original post, after Lucko decided to bash Chicago, and Bucco piped in, I simply said all of this happens everywhere. Sad, but true.

I was not defending the conduct of this Governor. In fact, as I stated, I was quite happy he was caught. I never did like him.

But don't push around MY city in general, I will defend it to the hilt. When people attack Chicago around me, it's like attacking my family. And trust me, I will not allow that to occur.
There is a difference in remarking about a political machine, the personalities involved in the corruption and controversy, and the high crimes and midemeanors they have or are alleged to have committed. The fact that the name of a city is used as an adverb is not the same as the city itself (and all who live in it) being chastised.

I admit to considering "Chicago politics" as being rough and tumble, and very much wrapped in controversy and favoritism. The corruption and voter scandals are legend, whether Chicagoans like it or not. The same can be said for "Boston politics" and a host of other cities which had a history of ethnic favoritism, crime boss rule, and turmoil. So what!

Whether we all want to accept it or not, we are no longer Chicagoans, Bostonians, New Yorkers, Denverites. Tulsans or any anything else. We are now "Villagers" and "Floridians." It's time to live in the present and the future, not the past. Our immigrant ancestors learned that when they got off the boat at Ellis Island or the airplane at JFK or wherever. Perhaps, we should follow their wise example.

If those other places are so great, then why did we leave there and come to TV? We came to TV because it IS better here. It is a new start and an opportunity to be rid of old baggage.

MY city is now The Villages. Boston is the "old country" to me, as Central Europe was for my grandparents. Boston, as good as it was (and is), it's not "mine" any more - TV and the surrounding area is. I can "see" Boston clearer now with some distance and time between it and me, and the finer points and the warts are more visible now than when being close up. I don't care what anyone says about Boston - good, bad or indifferent - because it's the "was" while TV is the "is."

There's a great bumper sticker that's been around in FL forever. It says "We don't care how you did it back North!" Good words to live by.

[Guest]

There is a difference in remarking about a political machine, the personalities involved in the corruption and controversy, and the high crimes and midemeanors they have or are alleged to have committed. The fact that the name of a city is used as an adverb is not the same as the city itself (and all who live in it) being chastised.

I admit to considering "Chicago politics" as being rough and tumble, and very much wrapped in controversy and favoritism. The corruption and voter scandals are legend, whether Chicagoans like it or not. The same can be said for "Boston politics" and a host of other cities which had a history of ethnic favoritism, crime boss rule, and turmoil. So what!

Whether we all want to accept it or not, we are no longer Chicagoans, Bostonians, New Yorkers, Denverites. Tulsans or any anything else. We are now "Villagers" and "Floridians." It's time to live in the present and the future, not the past. Our immigrant ancestors learned that when they got off the boat at Ellis Island or the airplane at JFK or wherever. Perhaps, we should follow their wise example.

If those other places are so great, then why did we leave there and come to TV? We came to TV because it IS better here. It is a new start and an opportunity to be rid of old baggage.

MY city is now The Villages. Boston is the "old country" to me, as Central Europe was for my grandparents. Boston, as good as it was (and is), it's not "mine" any more - TV and the surrounding area is. I can "see" Boston clearer now with some distance and time between it and me, and the finer points and the warts are more visible now than when being close up. I don't care what anyone says about Boston - good, bad or indifferent - because it's the "was" while TV is the "is."

There's a great bumper sticker that's been around in FL forever. It says "We don't care how you did it back North!" Good words to live by.

You and I are just have two different points of view. I really don't agree with you on this one. I don't and won't forget my roots. That's another thing I love about Chicago and it's people. The loyalty to the city and each other. We take care of our own. My heart and my history is stored there. And my Chicago ties are not broken. That doesn't mean I don't love The Villages, I do. But we didn't move here because it's "better". We moved here because it's "warmer." Yet, it's a move I don't regret. I've met some of the dearest, most loving people on the planet here and I know they will be friends for the rest of my life.

Not saying you're right or wrong, just saying we view things differently.

[Guest]

Somehow my comment that corruption on the national level was probably as bad as in Illinois got morphed into a defense of Illinois corruption.

For the record, and like Steve, The Villages is my hometown now and Chicago and Illinois are only my birthplace and longtime home. I am disgusted by the abhorent behavior of the Governor there. I think he should resign today. The State Legislature should take the power to appoint a Senate nominee away from him immediately and order a special election. He's a punk, and a stupid punk at that.

By the way, things I've read today suggest that the Governor really couldn't get "his" choice into the U.S. Senate if he appointed one today. Apparently his nomination would have to be both confirmed by the Illinois Secretary of State and the seating of his choice would also have to be approved by the Senate itself. Apparently both have said that no nominee of the Illinois Governor would be either approved at the state level or seated by vote of the Senate.

Also, in case no one has read the 79 page complaint issued by the federal prosecutor in Chicago, the Governor was enraged at President-elect Obama because all he had offered was his thanks for the Governor's support in the presidential election and a suggestion that whichever replacement Senatorial nominee nominated by the Governor be re-electable in 2010. The Governor's taped statement went something along the lines of "...all that #&%#@ Obama offered was his #&%*@ thanks..."

[Guest]

And in that regard we should prepare for the day (and it's coming soon) where TV is a major player in Florida politics; will become the most influential voting block within US House 5th Congressional district; and be the lead in local State Senate and House races. We're still somewhat disjointed in TV politically, as many have not yet made the emotional "leap" to being a local.

Hopefully, we will have all learned lessons how to do it right and wrong from our past lives, and will work our darnedest to get it right here.

Whatever our "parties" may or may not be, we can recognize that graft and corruption are present in all of them, and need to make sure that TV is a graft-and-corruption-free zone.

Let's make sure the snakes don't thrive in TV Eden.....

[Guest]

I'll be watching very carefully as our current Congresswoman's political career develops. She's in her third term and has gotten herself placed on some pretty important committees--Barney Frank's Financial Services Committee for one.

It hasn't escaped my attention that a bunch of banks, insurance companies and investment banks were the major contributors to the almost $600,000 given to the little old grandma from Brooksville. I'll bet they gave her all that money because she was such a nice little old lady, don't you think? And now she says she may run for the Senate seat being vacated by Mel Martinez. Does a Senate seat mean you get to eat higher off the hog?

Does anyone think that the needs of The Villages is real high on the list of things she worries about every day in her job in Congress? Even though we're clearly the biggest concentration of voters with common interests in the Fifth Congressional District. I think my new policy of never voting for an incumbent may apply to her in the 2010 mid-term elections. It may be time to get someone with less experience but who may actually "worry" our needs more than Ginny Brown-Waite.

This Congress job appears to be a lot more fruitful than her donut store in Brooksville ever was.

[Guest]

To Chelsea specifically.....I did not NEVER bash Chicago...I simply brought up the long history of corruption there. I even said it said nothing about the people there....it has been, correctly or incorrectly, the poster for corrupt politics. You, as usual, overreact and certainly did not read my post as I never BASHED your city.

Now.....during the campaign I suggested more times than folks wanted that our new President is enveloped with bad associations and that is the exact term I used.

Now, finally, folks are waking up....and I am telling you now that over the next few years there will be many more incidents like this where a scandal erupts and our President has had "associations" !!! The following is from todays news.....

"Questionable associations of Obama
By The Associated Press "

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hbJzaVo_Vcuv1HtB1U1eZDQOrQuQD94VL6S03

I will watch and applaud his actions if I agree, and critique if I disagree, but those of you who have annointed him, find him guilty of NOTHING and totally pure are going to be surprised.

[Guest]

As they say... I'm a two time loser. I'm originally from Chicago, so I have to deal with the bad crap coming out of there right now. I am also currently living in Putnam, CT. One of our ex governors has just gotten out of federal prison for taking kick-backs, among other things.

I don't know who said it anymore, but they are right crooked politics is rampid every where at all levels.

I just don't understand why people keep re-electing these people. Nobody likes the Gov. of Il. but they elected him. Everybody hated Gov. John Roland of CT, but they elected him, and then re-elected him before he got caught with his hands in the cookie jar.

As they say... Only in America.:eclipsee_gold_cup:

[Guest]

If anyone thinks Illinois is alone when it comes to illegal behavior, just check out this link. It's an eye opener. It in no way excuses the governor of Ill. If he's found guilty in a court of law he should be sent away for a very long time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_scandals_of_the_United_States

[Guest]

I'll be watching very carefully as our current Congresswoman's political career develops. She's in her third term and has gotten herself placed on some pretty important committees--Barney Frank's Financial Services Committee for one.

It hasn't escaped my attention that a bunch of banks, insurance companies and investment banks were the major contributors to the almost $600,000 given to the little old grandma from Brooksville. I'll bet they gave her all that money because she was such a nice little old lady, don't you think? And now she says she may run for the Senate seat being vacated by Mel Martinez. Does a Senate seat mean you get to eat higher off the hog?

Does anyone think that the needs of The Villages is real high on the list of things she worries about every day in her job in Congress? Even though we're clearly the biggest concentration of voters with common interests in the Fifth Congressional District. I think my new policy of never voting for an incumbent may apply to her in the 2010 mid-term elections. It may be time to get someone with less experience but who may actually "worry" our needs more than Ginny Brown-Waite.

This Congress job appears to be a lot more fruitful than her donut store in Brooksville ever was.

As I've mentioned before, my "rule" is no more thn 3 term for a representative and one for a senator. Ms. Brown-Waite may be the best rep the 5th district has ever seen, but time"s up. Senator Martinez is "retiring," so his seat us up-for-grabs.

So, while we may have some ideological differences politically, we have more in common as folk concerned with TV issues than we have differences. One very interesting use of this forum can be establishing our baseline "platform" which becomes our criteria for broad-based TV support to the candidate most amenable.

In order to establish the TV Virtual political party, we would have to make personal concessions for the greater good. That should not be difficult if we keep focused on TV issues and not get too far off the beam.

Comments?

[Guest]

To Chelsea specifically.....I did not NEVER bash Chicago...I simply brought up the long history of corruption there. I even said it said nothing about the people there....it has been, correctly or incorrectly, the poster for corrupt politics. You, as usual, overreact and certainly did not read my post as I never BASHED your city.

Now.....during the campaign I suggested more times than folks wanted that our new President is enveloped with bad associations and that is the exact term I used.

Now, finally, folks are waking up....and I am telling you now that over the next few years there will be many more incidents like this where a scandal erupts and our President has had "associations" !!! The following is from todays news.....

"Questionable associations of Obama
By The Associated Press "

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hbJzaVo_Vcuv1HtB1U1eZDQOrQuQD94VL6S03

I will watch and applaud his actions if I agree, and critique if I disagree, but those of you who have annointed him, find him guilty of NOTHING and totally pure are going to be surprised.

Reality check Bucco! I hate to tell you this, but every President has had questionable associates. And no, there is no Santa Claus. ;)

[Guest]

Reality check Bucco! I hate to tell you this, but every President has had questionable associates. And no, there is no Santa Claus. ;)


All I can say is that I will be here to remind you as this story progresses (NOT this individual story)...electing someone because of his speaking skills was a mistake....the past can not stay buried forever.

My only hope is that he is sincere and will LOUDLY AND QUICKLY rid himself of these people from which he was spawned politically. I dont think he can at this point and we have not had him sworn in yet and his associations are coming back at him.

No sense discussing this...in your mind he is the man of perfection and the golden one....media is late often but most times gets it right and they will eventually over the next few years !

[Guest]

All I can say is that I will be here to remind you as this story progresses (NOT this individual story)...electing someone because of his speaking skills was a mistake....the past can not stay buried forever.

My only hope is that he is sincere and will LOUDLY AND QUICKLY rid himself of these people from which he was spawned politically. I dont think he can at this point and we have not had him sworn in yet and his associations are coming back at him.

No sense discussing this...in your mind he is the man of perfection and the golden one....media is late often but most times gets it right and they will eventually over the next few years !

OK Bucco, you do that. Oh, and I suppose this is how you support our new President, as you've touted so often. I rest my case. :ohdear:

[Guest]

I agree with Steve. We should develop a virtual platform against which we should judge candidates to represent us in the House and Senate who will run in 2010.

This is going to cause me to really sit down and think about this. The reason is that I have so few complaints about The Villages and living here, particularly any that can be solved by the federal government. So without too much thought, maybe I'll begin with this list...

• If any of the candidates made a complete re-do of campaign finance a plank in their platform, they'd probably get my vote. I'd be for complete government financing of federal elections with a limit on the amount and the length of the campaign periods. But part of the deal would have to be NO permitted contributions from lobbyists. In fact, how about no contact with lobbyists.

• Right up there on top of my list would be the enactment--or re-enactment--of the PayGo rules to eliminate any deficit spending. I know we have to get thru the current economic rough patch, but sooner rather than later we have to get back to not spending more than we take in.

• How about a Villages Post Office? There's plenty of room on CR 466 in a central location and it's my understanding that the developer has offered to foot the bill to construct the building. What's the hold up?

• Don't screw around with the tax rates too much. Yeah, I think that the really wealthy can afford to pay a little more. I'd really be turned on if one of the candidates supported Mike Huckabee's Fair Tax proposal. With unemployment as high as it is, we wouldn't even notice the unemployed tax lawyers and tax preparers.

• I lean towards the tree-hugging side. Do the right thing. Sooner or later--after parts of Manhattan and Miami are under water--we'll realize there really is global warming. Why not sooner?

• Lastly, let's see if we can develop some friendships with countries around the world rather than acting like the neighborhood bully who practices "my way or the highway" diplomacy.

How's that for the start of a list? I'll keep thinking about other stuff I like to see in a candidate. But for sure, I'll be voting for Ginny Brown-Waite's opponent...just on the general principle that she's been there too long and is getting too entrenched in the system.

[Guest]

I acutally thought about posting here again, but i can see not to much has changed since the election. Seems like 2 different threads tied into 1 here. It's all in who or what you personally believe in. I really like what VK and Steve have to say here, they bring up good points with out going at each other. Kudo's to you guys. I have kind of laid back here, i realized I am some what speaking blind on alot of these facts. Dont do no good to paste a link to a web site or a statement. It will get shot down faster that a Sopwith Camel against the Red Barron.
Ill. Governor arrested, so what, alot of politicians have been. Senator from Alaska has seemed to slip the screen now, in a few weeks this will be old news. I think I heard my mom tell me before, dont make a mountian out of a ant hill. GO figure. I kind of like the idea of some one in office for awhile as long as they do a good job. everytime you change that person, that office has to start all over again.

[Guest]

I haven't read any of the posts above. That is my rule to myself for keeping out of trouble.

I will say this about the Governor of Illinois. I don't like the way he looks. If he came home with one of my kids I would be seriously worried. What is with that hair? He has a pompadour and I haven't seen one of those in decades! He looks like a cartoon character, and another thing, his mother dresses him funny. He is too slick, polished and slimy looking. He has beady eyes, and not like OUR BEADY here on TOTV either. He is not the kind of person I would invite into my home. I think he hangs out with friends who carry guns and he has four cousin Vinnie's.

You didn't ask. And I know you are not interested. And people from both partys don't like him and I didn't look at the posts above, but I know you are all arguing.

NOW. I am outa here!

[Guest]

What's next? Blago resigns? He's declared unfit by the Illinois Supreme Court? He's impeached?

None of those things appear to be likely. The most likely next step is for the Illinois General Assembly to pass legislation taking the authority to appoint a new Senator away from the Governor in favor of a special election.

Background: The idea is to take away Blagojevich's sole authority to fill the U.S. Senate seat left vacant by President-elect Barack Obama. Lawmakers would pass legislation next week that is backed by Illinois House Speaker and Senate President.

How it would work: A statewide primary election followed quickly by a general election is the likely option.

What's new: The plan is expected to be approved by Tuesday. "We're still moving forward," said a spokeswoman for the Senate President. "We're going to come in and get this bill passed."

Lingering questions: Blagojevich still would have the power to decide the bill's fate. He could veto it and lawmakers could try to override. He could sign it. Or, if he ignores it for 60 days, it would become law. Also, would it stand up in court? If someone sues, the Senate seat could be left in doubt for months while the litigation of the legality of the new law is decided. During that time, Illinois would only be represented by one Senator. It's likely that the defined "majority" in Senate votes would be 50 votes, but that would require a modification of Senate rules. That situation vitually eliminates any role for the Vice President in breaking tie votes in the Senate.

[Guest]

Robert Grant, FBI special agent in charge of the Chicago office, characterized Illinois' place in the pantheon of political corruption.

"If it isn't the most corrupt state in the United States, it's certainly one hell of a competitor," Grant said. "Even the most cynical agents in our office were shocked."

Well you still have Louisiana in the running.

[Guest]

What's next? Blago resigns? He's declared unfit by the Illinois Supreme Court? He's impeached?

None of those things appear to be likely. The most likely next step is for the Illinois General Assembly to pass legislation taking the authority to appoint a new Senator away from the Governor in favor of a special election.

Background: The idea is to take away Blagojevich's sole authority to fill the U.S. Senate seat left vacant by President-elect Barack Obama. Lawmakers would pass legislation next week that is backed by Illinois House Speaker and Senate President.

How it would work: A statewide primary election followed quickly by a general election is the likely option.

What's new: The plan is expected to be approved by Tuesday. "We're still moving forward," said a spokeswoman for the Senate President. "We're going to come in and get this bill passed."

Lingering questions: Blagojevich still would have the power to decide the bill's fate. He could veto it and lawmakers could try to override. He could sign it. Or, if he ignores it for 60 days, it would become law. Also, would it stand up in court? If someone sues, the Senate seat could be left in doubt for months while the litigation of the legality of the new law is decided. During that time, Illinois would only be represented by one Senator. It's likely that the defined "majority" in Senate votes would be 50 votes, but that would require a modification of Senate rules. That situation vitually eliminates any role for the Vice President in breaking tie votes in the Senate.


I think he resigns ALTHOUGH he may make it tough on everybody. I found the information linked below which is from January of this year.....


"The governor’s strange behavior has been fertile ground for local armchair psychologists. Last summer, the downstate newspaper the Peoria Journal Star declared that the governor was “going bonkers.” Privately, a few people who know the governor describe him as a “sociopath,” and they insist they’re not using hyperbole. State representative Joe Lyons, a fellow Democrat from Chicago, told reporters that Blagojevich was a “madman” and “insane.” “He shows absolutely no remorse,” says Jack Franks, the Democratic state representative. “I don’t think he gives a damn about anybody else’s feelings. He tries to demonize people who disagree with him; he’s got delusions of grandeur.”

Miller points out that people shouldn’t blame Blagojevich’s lousy governing skills on his personality alone: “You can be insane—totally whacked out psychologically—and be a good governor or a good president.”

http://thecapitolfaxblog.com/2008/01/23/chicago-mag-takes-a-bite-out-of-blagojevich/

[Guest]

Robert Grant, FBI special agent in charge of the Chicago office, characterized Illinois' place in the pantheon of political corruption.

"If it isn't the most corrupt state in the United States, it's certainly one hell of a competitor," Grant said. "Even the most cynical agents in our office were shocked."

Well you still have Louisiana in the running.

USA Today came out with a list of the most corrupt states and the top three are:

1. North Dakota
2. Louisiana
3. Alaska (You betcha!)

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-12-10-corruptstates_N.htm?se=yahoorefer

Illinois is 18th, even got beat out by PA. hmmmm..... Imagine that!

[Guest]

USA Today came out with a list of the most corrupt states and the top three are:

1. North Dakota
2. Louisiana
3. Alaska (You betcha!)

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-12-10-corruptstates_N.htm?se=yahoorefer

Illinois is 18th, even got beat out by PA. hmmmm..... Imagine that!


I believe Florida was about 5th or 6th

(remember the chads!)

.

[Guest]

The article only dealt with "number of convictions of public officials" in ratio to the state's total population. It did not go into: 1) the dollar value of the corruption; 2) the effect on the public in the way of reduction in safety or degradation of services; or 3) the number of private persons/companies entwined in the corruption and related convictions of them.

In short, you can make a stand-alone statistic for anything, and it often doesn't say more than it says.

[Guest]

The article only dealt with "number of convictions of public officials" in ratio to the state's total population. It did not go into: 1) the dollar value of the corruption; 2) the effect on the public in the way of reduction in safety or degradation of services; or 3) the number of private persons/companies entwined in the corruption and related convictions of them.

In short, you can make a stand-alone statistic for anything, and it often doesn't say more than it says.

:a20: And your point? No one said it did! The things you mentioned were not the focus of the article. :loco:

[Guest]

:a20: And your point? No one said it did! The things you mentioned were not the focus of the article. :loco:
That's right. The focus of the article was a great example of poor conclusions based on limited data points. I would have hoped that Journalism 101 would have taught the author that an article which provides a "rating scheme" to denote sociological patterns or tendencies based on only two data points is valueless. Apparently, the author never took any courses in Statistics.

The only "point" to the article is that people will believe whatever they want to believe, and if they are exceptionally selective on the data from which they base conclusions, they can never be "wrong." What's sad is when this is practiced in justifying political choices.

It has rained on both Thursdays of December this year in the DC area, but no rain fell on Atlanta. With "rain" and "Thursdays" being the only data points, if I follow the author's deductive logic, then you just can't be in DC on Thursdays in December without an umbrella, but you can go hat-less in Atlanta. That's deductive logic based on two data points.

[Guest]

That's right. The focus of the article was a great example of poor conclusions based on limited data points. I would have hoped that Journalism 101 would have taught the author that an article which provides a "rating scheme" to denote sociological patterns or tendencies based on only two data points is valueless. Apparently, the author never took any courses in Statistics.

The only "point" to the article is that people will believe whatever they want to believe, and if they are exceptionally selective on the data from which they base conclusions, they can never be "wrong." What's sad is when this is practiced in justifying political choices.

It has rained on both Thursdays of December this year in the DC area, but no rain fell on Atlanta. With "rain" and "Thursdays" being the only data points, if I follow the author's deductive logic, then you just can't be in DC on Thursdays in December without an umbrella, but you can go hat-less in Atlanta. That's deductive logic based on two data points.

:agree::highfive:

[Guest]

Wow! Maybe this will all lead back to Obama and he won't become President!
Hahahaha! :1rotfl: In your dreams guys! :wave:

[Guest]

Wow! Maybe this will all lead back to Obama and he won't become President!
Hahahaha! :1rotfl: In your dreams guys! :wave:

It never ceases to amaze me how EVERYTHING that gets posted is taken as an anti-Obama comment.

The only thing "in my dreams" seems to be an expectation for rational thought and civility.

[Guest]

That's right. The focus of the article was a great example of poor conclusions based on limited data points. I would have hoped that Journalism 101 would have taught the author that an article which provides a "rating scheme" to denote sociological patterns or tendencies based on only two data points is valueless. Apparently, the author never took any courses in Statistics.

The only "point" to the article is that people will believe whatever they want to believe, and if they are exceptionally selective on the data from which they base conclusions, they can never be "wrong." What's sad is when this is practiced in justifying political choices.

It has rained on both Thursdays of December this year in the DC area, but no rain fell on Atlanta. With "rain" and "Thursdays" being the only data points, if I follow the author's deductive logic, then you just can't be in DC on Thursdays in December without an umbrella, but you can go hat-less in Atlanta. That's deductive logic based on two data points.


This is good, never thought of it like that, but I have said it before. It is a personal opinion when it comes to this subject. Just like SteveZ said, it is all in how you interpret the article. I looked at that list also, just to see what state fell where. But just how much data is included, and what type and where is the infor gathered from. The articles can tell you anything they want you to hear. Just like I am a big fan of Olbermann on The Countdown on MSNBC. I like to hear him tell it like it is. Give you the Bottom Line. Does that make him right to all, No. But I think he has a valid point with all.
I dont see alot of people reading these polls and articles with the intent of validating the data. they read them and say that has to be true, it is in the paper.....

[Guest]

This is good, never thought of it like that, but I have said it before. It is a personal opinion when it comes to this subject. Just like SteveZ said, it is all in how you interpret the article. I looked at that list also, just to see what state fell where. But just how much data is included, and what type and where is the infor gathered from. The articles can tell you anything they want you to hear. Just like I am a big fan of Olbermann on The Countdown on MSNBC. I like to hear him tell it like it is. Give you the Bottom Line. Does that make him right to all, No. But I think he has a valid point with all.
I dont see alot of people reading these polls and articles with the intent of validating the data. they read them and say that has to be true, it is in the paper.....

Logic is, hopefully, prevailing again. On reading the article I noticed that the dark blue states were primarily what we refer to as 'red' states. From this I could draw one of two conclusions; (1) Republicans are more frequently convicted for corruption and therefore are more corrupt; or, (2) Republicans go after corrupt politicians and therefore Democrats are more corrupt. As Steve points out, the data is insufficient to allow either conclusion to be drawn by a thinking person.

What is does demonstrate is that journalists will do anything for a story. It does not matter if they are representatives of the tv news networks, USA Today, the NY Times or the National Enquirer. Printing a story like this, thrusting a microphone in the face of Rahm Emanuel, stalking celebrities and even destroying the lives of everyday people is always worth it if you can 'get the story' and 'get the ratings.' It is no wonder that newspaper circulation is going down steadily (the Tribune Company just declared bankruptcy and the NY Times may be close behind) and that the most watched news show on television is Entertainment Today.