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View Full Version : USGA goofed up again


JGVillages
07-10-2016, 09:24 PM
Anna Norqvist was assessed a 2 stroke penalty in the Women's US Open 3 hole total stroke playoff today when on the 2nd playoff hole, #17, in a fairway sand trap she inavertaintly grounded her club. Ok justified. It is the way the penalty was seen and the notification process the USGA needs to revise. Thinking she and Brittnay Lang were even hitting their 3rd shots to 18 the USGA let Norqvist hit without notification. Immediately after that shot she was told. They then notified Lang prior to her 3rd shot, basically telling her she had a 2 stroke lead. She now was aware that she did not need to be aggresive and try to make birdie to win. If Norqvist had the same information prior to her 3rd shot she would have to be aggressive, knowing she was 2 strokes behind. All the USGA needed to do was notify both after their 3rd shots so Lang did not have an advantage on her 3rd shot. Considering the screw-up at the men's US Open and now this, not only to the rules of golf need revisiting but also their penalty notification process. How many players not "on camera" may deserve unseen (by player and camera) penalties that are not assessed and later go on to cash big checks or win. Penalties should not be assessed by callers seeing it on TV or a camera tech in a trailer noticing it. The entire field needs to be protected so let the players, their opponents, and the on-course officials see the issue and make the decision real time. PROTECT THE FIELD.

Jima64
07-10-2016, 09:48 PM
Doesn't each player have a official following them on the course. If so, how would players be able to,"cheat" and go on to cash big checks? Players seem to have a entourage with them the final round.

rubicon
07-11-2016, 04:04 AM
The first person to know their club was mistakenly grounded is the player so where is the surprise. Golf use to be about honor about self reporting infractions. It is what makes this sport very special. Ethics is about doing the right thing even if no one is watching.

VApeople
07-11-2016, 05:50 AM
On the replay, it showed that her club moved only one or two grains of sand, so she probably was not even aware she had grounded her club.

JGVillages
07-11-2016, 12:25 PM
Doesn't each player have a official following them on the course. If so, how would players be able to,"cheat" and go on to cash big checks? Players seem to have a entourage with them the final round.

During the regular 4 rounds of a tournament each player does not have an official in their group. An official is called in by the walking scorers when needed. I did not say anyone was cheating. Nordqvist did not see her infraction as the small grain of sand that moved was unseen by her but picked up by a zooming TV camera. If a similar infraction happened to a different player, on a different hole, that the camera operator did not record, the infraction would have gone unreported and the player would not have been penalized. Infractions happen that players do not intend or realize it happened. You should not penalize one player because it was caught on camera, while another escapes a penalty because their infraction, unnoticed by the player, was not on camera. Are we to let fans call infractions into an NFL Game, that the officials missed, thus reviewing something that may have happened in the first quarter, then penalizing or take points off in the 4th Qr.?

er9027
07-11-2016, 01:46 PM
Actually, the replay shows the track in the sand that the club left on the way back also. Penalty was correct. Should have informed both players at same time...Either before 3rd shot, after 3rd shot, or b-4 they putted.
I'm not sure there is anything in rules about " Inform Players Asap or Inform all players together " . Might be in future after problems this year. High Def TV has sure made a big difference. I trust 99.9 % of the players to
call penalties on themselves. Golf is a game of honor and lets keep it that way. IMHO

Jima64
07-11-2016, 01:50 PM
Non golfer here but love watching on television. Rules should also include when and how you tell someone of a penalty. Don't they have tour officials follow each golfer during play. if so, why the missed call until notified by video replay?

justjim
07-11-2016, 02:06 PM
Non golfer here but love watching on television. Rules should also include when and how you tell someone of a penalty. Don't they have tour officials follow each golfer during play. if so, why the missed call until notified by video replay?

Officials are not so close that they can see an infraction of the rules of golf such as occurred in this case. Apparently, the player didn't even notice she had brushed the sand with her club. It was a zoom lens on the TV camera that caught the infraction. However, both players should be informed at the same time but there is nothing in the "rules of golf" that says they should and this can be changed by the USGA.

ajbrown
07-11-2016, 02:11 PM
On the replay, it showed that her club moved only one or two grains of sand, so she probably was not even aware she had grounded her club.

I agree. Watching the video, I doubt she felt it. Only she knows if she saw it. I will believe (hope) she did not or she would have said something.

I was surprised how close she allowed the club to get at all; even if she did not touch that tiny clump. Possibly she missed the fact that the ball created a little 'valley' as it rolled to rest?

For those that have not seen it check out the continuous loop video on this page.

SB*Nation article (http://tinyurl.com/zc5v5wc)

Topspinmo
07-12-2016, 06:11 AM
I'm on the fence on this one. If officials called it, it means they have officials watching cameras. I'f so, IMO play should of been stopped, reviewed, and both player notified. You know like replay officials in other sports. I also think she did not feel the club hitting couple grains of sand. It the sand was fluffy enough the air moving from the club could left the trail.

Mikeod
07-12-2016, 06:56 AM
The trail was from the ball rolling when it entered the bunker, not from the club on the backswing.

goldseekur
07-12-2016, 01:41 PM
I personally do not think that a camera person covering the game should not have been able to call this. Only the players and officials of the game should be allowed to call the penalty. If no one who is a "part of the game" sees it, then it doesn't matter.

I do not think she noticed the few grains of sand move, nor did anyone else associated with the game. That camera person had that stroke zoomed in so close that all you saw was the club face and the ball. I would imagine if most shots was zoomed in that close something wrong could be picked up. So if they are going to say it is OK to penalize her because of what a camera person picked up, then they need to have EVERY sand shot done the same way so it is equal.

I agree also that the officials did not handle the delivery of the information to the players properly. The way they did it gave Brittney a BIG advantage on her next shot. She changed clubs after receiving the news because she knew then she did not have to play aggressively because she knew she already had a 2 stoke lead.

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
07-12-2016, 04:01 PM
I was surprised how close she allowed the club to get at all; even if she did not touch that tiny clump.

I was thinking the same thing. I always hover my club well above the sand in a bunker to ensure I don't have an "accident". In fact I do it sometimes when chipping and pitching. It's a drill that Paul Runyan taught me many years ago.

I'm on the fence about calling penalties based on video evidence. As has been brought up, how do we know that Brittany Lang didn't accidentally commit some small infraction at some point during the first three rounds. It makes me wonder how many infraction occur that the player isn't aware of over the course of a tournament or over the course of a season.

I knew a rules official once who claimed that he could take any professional golfer and call a rules infraction on him within three holes. There are probably a lot of minor infractions that players are not aware of. It's just a matter of bad luck when you happen to be in the lead or in a playoff and your every move is being recorded and looked at by television technicians.

I agree that they should have told both players either before Nordqvist hit her shot or after Lang hit hers. I doubt that it would have made any difference in the outcome, but it was the right thing to do.