Socialized medicine

[Guest]

Here's what you'll get when you have government run health care.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1159506/Life-prolonging-cancer-drugs-banned-cost-much.html

Is this the path we really want? The government bankrupted social security and medicare, do you trust them with your loved one's health care?

[Guest]

Exactly! There will be a beaurocrat that will decide what prodedures or medications you may have based on your age, general health, health history and family history. Just when you need the help of medical science the most, the beaurocracy will deny it to you, because it is too expensive for your age and life expectancy. Some will be told "NO" and to just suffer and die, while others (those of the desirable demographic) will be approved. Your doctor esentially will be asking permission from the beaurocracy to treat. His prescriptions will be only recommendations that can be filled only if approved by the beaurocacy. Actually, we aren't that far from it now with insurance companies and HMO's. The big change will be that approvals will be government conrtolled. When that happens, it can't help but have polictics involved - the desirable demographics issue. This is exactly what is coming, and apparently sooner than we think. The TV residents, because of their general age bracket, will be very affected by the rationed health care policies as this unfolds.

[Guest]

Exactly! There will be a beaurocrat that will decide what prodedures or medications you may have based on your age, general health, health history and family history. Just when you need the help of medical science the most, the beaurocracy will deny it to you, because it is too expensive for your age and life expectancy. Some will be told "NO" and to just suffer and die, while others (those of the desirable demographic) will be approved. Your doctor esentially will be asking permission from the beaurocracy to treat. His prescriptions will be only recommendations that can be filled only if approved by the beaurocacy. Actually, we aren't that far from it now with insurance companies and HMO's. The big change will be that approvals will be government conrtolled. When that happens, it can't help but have polictics involved - the desirable demographics issue. This is exactly what is coming, and apparently sooner than we think. The TV residents, because of their general age bracket, will be very affected by the rationed health care policies as this unfolds.

I generally do not post on the political forum and I do not believe that the health care of Americans is a political issue. That said ...

SNOK's description of what health care would be like is EXACTLY what it is like now, with the power that the government has given 'big business insurance.'

Example: My physician recently prescribed a particular medication for me--not experimental, not even name brand, rather a generic. Mailed it in, got it back, called to find out why. Turns out a clerk decided that my physician was wrong and I didn't need it. Can you imagine?! So I ended up paying for it, meaning I enriched the insurance company in its clerk's decision to refuse it.

Example from the other point of view which I've written about on other threads: In December I was treated at The Villages Hospital ER following an accident in which I managed to turn a hand into what looked like ground beef. I received the most incredibly outstanding care there from a PA who was either directly caring for me or was hovering over me and nearby for SIX HOURS, successfully restoring my hand though I have lots of healing ahead. He submitted a bill to the insurance company for a munificent just under $500. The infamous insurance company clerk decided that I didn't need so much care and had the power to subtract slightly over $400 from this charge and paid him about $94; I pointed out that our oldest son is a grocery clerk at an upstate NY supermarket where he earns more in six hours. Is this right?

Continuing example: My hand will need another year to heal, requiring lots of therapy and exercises. First, the insurance company clerk decided that I don't need the splints and other equipment that support my healing, so I paid for them; I am fortunate that I can afford them but know that there are others who cannot. And second, as of this past Monday the hand therapist told me she has to cut back on my obviously very necessary appointments because, according to the insurance company, I'm running out of allowed visits. I'm in serious trouble....

I know someone who has a life-threatening condition requiring use of a medication that has to be carefully monitored, involving a stat blood test every couple weeks, meaning that as soon as the blood is drawn, a driver has to be called to take the specimen to the lab immediately. The lab's charge for the test: $28. The insurance company's payment for the test which is mandated as full payment (that is, no further charges for the patient) is $3. How can a lab stay in business and provide the service this person--and the rest of us at times--needs? And who pays the $28, I asked? 'Oh, the uninsured have to pay full freight!' Is this believable?

I served as a volunteer with Hospice (and was instrumental in bringing the Hospice movement into our rural corner of New York State; we are snowbirds here in TV) and can tell you that I NEVER saw the present system victimizing people MORE at a time when they are LEAST capable of dealing with it.

Or I should say, the health care system is NOW in deep excrement; tell me it's not broken! Its machinations CANNOT get worse, no matter what the government does about health care....

[Guest]

Exactly! There will be a beaurocrat that will decide what prodedures or medications you may have based on your age, general health, health history and family history. Just when you need the help of medical science the most, the beaurocracy will deny it to you, because it is too expensive for your age and life expectancy. Some will be told "NO" and to just suffer and die, while others (those of the desirable demographic) will be approved. Your doctor esentially will be asking permission from the beaurocracy to treat. His prescriptions will be only recommendations that can be filled only if approved by the beaurocacy. Actually, we aren't that far from it now with insurance companies and HMO's. The big change will be that approvals will be government conrtolled. When that happens, it can't help but have polictics involved - the desirable demographics issue. This is exactly what is coming, and apparently sooner than we think. The TV residents, because of their general age bracket, will be very affected by the rationed health care policies as this unfolds.

Please read Sidney's post, he says it so much better than I could.

I too shun the political on this Forum, so I am outta here!

[Guest]

DK & Co.,

You are cordially invited to visit a thread I started today titled "Concerned about health care?" In that thread you will be introduced to a link to a show on NPR's Fresh Air. There are two interviews. The first has to do with a very ill patient who was paying for a plan that he thought would cover him for catastrophic illness.

The second interview is with an econ professor from Princeton who tells it like it is. The guy is savvy and does not sound to me like some kind of socialist like those who are spotted under every rock these days. This guy is a realist. Economics is his area and he says we better fix this mess and fix it fast. And he knows no fix is perfect.

My thread is not in political. I just did not want to put it in political. It is far bigger than political. Too bad the politicians cannot recognize that.

So anyway, I just wanted to invite you to have a listen to some things that I hope you will find interesting. At least worth giving a little thought.

Hey, on second thought, you know what I am going to do? I am going to link that radio show from NPR right here in your thread, too.

Here it is. I'll leave the light on for you.

(edit on 3/13: This link has changed. You have to click on "past shows" and go to March 11 and you will find it.)

http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=13



Boomer

[Guest]

The significant point you are missing is that today you have a choice. You could go buy insurance from someone else. Someone who provides better coverage. Now you may have to pay more for it to get the coverage you want, but you do have that choice. You decide the risk your willing to take and how much additional out of pocket your willing to spend. How much deductible your willing to shoulder. Tomorrow that choice goes away. You will pay whatever taxes you have to and get the coverage a Washington bureaucrat decides you and everyone else needs. Your freedom of choice goes away. But your payment will be whatever someone decides you can afford (taxes) and your coverage will be what ever they decide they want to give you. You are very naive to think it will be a better system when everything else the government tries to do is a mess. Think about how great our postal service is, but yet UPS and FedX can build a huge business based on how poor they perform. And that started long before e-mail hit their business.

[Guest]

To the folks who think our current system is bad. Yeah, let's turn it all over to the government, they are so good at running programs. I know social security is in dandy shape. :thumbup:

[Guest]

Being the Army I have lived all over the globe. If our health care is so bad, why do people from other countries that have SOCIALIZED care, come here for surgeries? HHMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?????????


Army Guy

[Guest]

In August of 1977, The Department of Energy was instituted to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. Thirty one years later, the budget for this federal agency is 24.2 Billion dollars per year.

With 16,000 permanent employees and roughly 100,000 contract employees, have they gotten us any closer to their stated objective? Are we seriously considering turning Health Care, the Banking System & the Auto Industry over to them?

We should consider with great care that for which we ask, because in a representative republic, we will get it.

[Guest]

I think we can all agree our health care system needs some improving even though it's still the best in the world. No system is infallible.

Many seem to forget that it all has to be paid for with our tax dollars. Remember the social security trust fund? the lock box? the account we've all been paying into all of our lives?

Guess what? They wasted it all on God knows what that had nothing to do with SS and now the system is going bankrupt.

I can't believe anyone in their right mind would support turning our health care over to the bureaucrats in Washington.

[Guest]

in my corporate life I had operations in many countries, so I will pick one like Belgium (true for Germany as well)...when hiring or maintaining a new GM or Director guess what the two top priority issues were in the comp package? Not how much the salary would be. First was car of their choice with all expenses paid including the fuel!...usually a top end Mercedes or BMW. Second was health care provided in the USA when they were here for reviews, vacations, etc. Medications were not so much the problem as was acute care needs. It was very bureaucratic, with waiting lists for major surgery.
These are countries where health care is "free" as well as college education is "free"....just to name a couple.

With tax rates approaching 70% the salary was least important as long as it provided maintaining the appropriate life style.

Yes everybody was "entitled" to the free stuff....when it was your turn!!!!
And most noteworthy is the tax rate.

They were always in awe at how much more money executives here in the USA were able to keep.

If hospitals and doctors are overwhelmed in our current day....can you imagine the crush if it ever went to free?

If it ever gets to that proportion here, it is a sure bet there will be separate health care providers available for those who don't want the free stuff.

Capitalism and free enterprise are the only answer.....not free (because it isn't).

BTK

[Guest]

Being the Army I have lived all over the globe. If our health care is so bad, why do people from other countries that have SOCIALIZED care, come here for surgeries? HHMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?????????


Army GuyWhat did you think of the medical care you received in the Army?

[Guest]

I can't believe anyone in their right mind would support turning our health care over to the bureaucrats in Washington.


Enough said. What else is there to discuss ? :shrug::shrug:

[Guest]

rshoffer, I have never had any heartburn with the Army medical care. Always took good care of me and the wife when ever we need it. It also depends where you are versus how much they have. Some places I have been stationed it was just a Clinic and had to travel to an actual hospitial. So it can vary. But as far as the care, no problems.

Army Guy

[Guest]

rshoffer, I have never had any heartburn with the Army medical care. Always took good care of me and the wife when ever we need it. It also depends where you are versus how much they have. Some places I have been stationed it was just a Clinic and had to travel to an actual hospitial. So it can vary. But as far as the care, no problems.

Army GuyI rest my case.

[Guest]

I rest my case.



:bowdown::agree:

[Guest]

Enough said. What else is there to discuss ?

How to keep their slimy government hands off our health care?

[Guest]

DK & Co.,

You are cordially invited to visit a thread I started today titled "Concerned about health care?" In that thread you will be introduced to a link to a show on NPR's Fresh Air. There are two interviews. The first has to do with a very ill patient who was paying for a plan that he thought would cover him for catastrophic illness.

The second interview is with an econ professor from Princeton who tells it like it is. The guy is savvy and does not sound to me like some kind of socialist like those who are spotted under every rock these days. This guy is a realist. Economics is his area and he says we better fix this mess and fix it fast. And he knows no fix is perfect.

My thread is not in political. I just did not want to put it in political. It is far bigger than political. Too bad the politicians cannot recognize that.

So anyway, I just wanted to invite you to have a listen to some things that I hope you will find interesting. At least worth giving a little thought.

Hey, on second thought, you know what I am going to do? I am going to link that radio show from NPR right here in your thread, too.

Here it is. I'll leave the light on for you.

http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=13

Boomer

BOOMER..thanks for the link and back to you in a minute :)

To those who are always saying that political is like a deep dark hole, this thread is a good example of folks sharing views, hard held....many with personal stories..many from the profession and folks supplying links that can help understand issues that are complex such as this one.

Now BOOMER...fantastic link, at least for me...I became perhaps not informed but at least more than I knew before and found my feelings changing a bit, but a FANTASTIC LINK !!!

I have a question after listening to the link for those who seem to know more about this than I and I hope it is not stupid...

With all the negotiations that goes on today between hospitals and insurance companies to set the rates on certain procedures, AND with the large gap in the low and high that exist..meaning it can cost from $ to $$$$$$$ depending on the hospital....IF there is some semblance of healthcare offered in the package that was referred to as a compromise OR even as the President campaigned on......WOULD THERE NOT BE A LARGE NUMBER OF HOSPITALS (and Doctors) THAT ARE NOW ON THE TOP END OF THE LIST THAT WOULD EITHER NEED TO CUTBACK ON SERVICES OR JUST CLOSE ?

I hope that question makes sense ?

[Guest]

BOOMER..thanks for the link and back to you in a minute :)

To those who are always saying that political is like a deep dark hole, this thread is a good example of folks sharing views, hard held....many with personal stories..many from the profession and folks supplying links that can help understand issues that are complex such as this one.

Now BOOMER...fantastic link, at least for me...I became perhaps not informed but at least more than I knew before and found my feelings changing a bit, but a FANTASTIC LINK !!!

I have a question after listening to the link for those who seem to know more about this than I and I hope it is not stupid...

With all the negotiations that goes on today between hospitals and insurance companies to set the rates on certain procedures, AND with the large gap in the low and high that exist..meaning it can cost from $ to $$$$$$$ depending on the hospital....IF there is some semblance of health care offered in the package that was referred to as a compromise OR even as the President campaigned on......WOULD THERE NOT BE A LARGE NUMBER OF HOSPITALS (and Doctors) THAT ARE NOW ON THE TOP END OF THE LIST THAT WOULD EITHER NEED TO CUTBACK ON SERVICES OR JUST CLOSE ?

I hope that question makes sense ?


Bucco,

I'm glad you liked the link. But I checked it just now and it had changed to the next day's show. You have to go to "past shows" now and bring up Wednesday, March 11, and there you can still find the show about insurance.

The reason I get involved in discussions like this one is not because I want socialized medicine. It is because I want some kind of good plan made available for people to BUY into at an affordable cost. The plan that Congress has comes to mind.

I have friends who continue to work past the time they should because they cannot afford or find health insurance to cover them until Medicare. There are those who may have access to retiree health care under their employer but the cost of covering a spouse becomes so nuts that they just have to keep on working until at least one of the couple gets to Medicare.

And something else that is real killer, figuratively and possibly literally, is that there are so many out there who are paying through the nose for relatively worthless plans that find a way to really mess with them if they should become seriously ill. (An example of that is in the first part of the show I linked.) And then there are those pre-existing conditions that make individual plans pretty impossible to find or afford.

Mr. B and I are covered through our former employers for now. It costs us more each year for our end. But the coverage is there under well-known group plans. But I cannot insulate myself from what I see happening around me.

My guess is that those who so vehemently oppose any discussion of making changes are themselves covered by excellent plans and perhaps have no idea what hard working people around them face when trying to find coverage. Especially those who want to retire but cannot because they cannot risk loss of insurance because they know they may not be able to find coverage they can afford or find coverage--period.

Some friends who own a small business, just two of them, were facing horrendous annual cost for a plan several years ago. And that was a while back. I cannot imagine what it must be now. The cost was based upon one of the owners being diabetic. Without access to big group plans, people are just getting trampled with costs while insurance companies rake it in for their CEO's.

So anyway, I just want to see middle ground. Make a plan (maybe give a choice for catastrophic coverage only) available for people to buy into. One giant group plan. Available. Affordable. Portable. TO BUY INTO. By choice.

We have to solve this or business as usual in health care will hamstring our economy.

Here's the link again to Wednesday's show on NPR.

http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=13&prgDate=3-11-2009

And I am sorry I cannot answer your question, Bucco. But I am glad you saw the light I left on.

Boomer

[Guest]

It is because I want some kind of good plan made available for people to BUY into at an affordable cost. The plan that Congress has comes to mind.

Boomer


Boom, you know I never disagree with you nor question your information, and I really do neither now. It's just that I often hear people raving about extravagant retirement benefits and health care that congress gets and it irks me --- not the supposed perks but the raving. Congressmen and Senators have the exact same health care benefits as every other federal employee, be they Secretary of the Interior or a typist at the local Social Security Office. That is The Federal Employees Health Benefits (FEHB) Program. http://www.opm.gov/insure/health/

No doubt, this is a good program. My premiums (& the congressman's) are very reasonable and the coverage is pretty good -- our dental options suck and drug benefits vary. By comparison, most unions and many private companies are much cheaper. One big benefit we have is that if we've been in the program for the last 5 years before retirement, we can stay in the program in retirement.

Yes, the government pays a large portion of our premiums, but like the Civil Service Retirement Plan, the FEHB helped compensate some of those minuscule cost-of-living adjustments and often miserable working conditions. Should the FEHB be open to the public? In my opinion, not at the cost we pay. That would just be a kick in the testicles of longtime feds. However, as part of an overall reform, could the gov't create an FEHB-type program for the un- and under-insured? Most definitely. The problem for so many people is that they do not have a group available for health insurance. Under this new system, the gov't could create a massive insurable group that would likely attract a large number of insurers. Prices would naturally be lower than for the individual trying to get a solo policy. And whether the gov't should pay part of those premiums and how much ---- who knows?









`

[Guest]

How to keep their slimy government hands off our health care?It sounds like when you are old enough to be eligible for Medicare that you are going to opt out and go the non-gov't route (everyone's perfect right assuming they have the reources). There are physicians now who have likewise opted out of ALL ins plans, including all gov't plans... it's called botique medicine. CASH ONLY.

[Guest]

been, still is and will always be a function of the haves and have nots....was, is and will always be the cold reality of economics....here as in the rest of the world.

Is this a surprise to anybody?

BTK

[Guest]

Boom, you know I never disagree with you nor question your information, and I really do neither now. It's just that I often hear people raving about extravagant retirement benefits and health care that congress gets and it irks me --- not the supposed perks but the raving. Congressmen and Senators have the exact same health care benefits as every other federal employee, be they Secretary of the Interior or a typist at the local Social Security Office. That is The Federal Employees Health Benefits (FEHB) Program. http://www.opm.gov/insure/health/

No doubt, this is a good program. My premiums (& the congressman's) are very reasonable and the coverage is pretty good -- our dental options suck and drug benefits vary. By comparison, most unions and many private companies are much cheaper. One big benefit we have is that if we've been in the program for the last 5 years before retirement, we can stay in the program in retirement.

Yes, the government pays a large portion of our premiums, but like the Civil Service Retirement Plan, the FEHB helped compensate some of those minuscule cost-of-living adjustments and often miserable working conditions. Should the FEHB be open to the public? In my opinion, not at the cost we pay. That would just be a kick in the testicles of longtime feds. However, as part of an overall reform, could the gov't create an FEHB-type program for the un- and under-insured? Most definitely. The problem for so many people is that they do not have a group available for health insurance. Under this new system, the gov't could create a massive insurable group that would likely attract a large number of insurers. Prices would naturally be lower than for the individual trying to get a solo policy. And whether the gov't should pay part of those premiums and how much ---- who knows?
`

Munc!

I am joyously spinning around in my new desk chair! Yes! Did you see that sentence of yours that I put in red! Too often I feel like I am speaking some bizarre tribal clicking language when I start talking about middle ground.

Why are there so few people who can see that a big part of the problem is the lack of access, even for people who are ready, willing, and able to pay. And then there are so many who, if they can see it, they just think, "Who gives a rat's behind. I got mine." It is way too easy for politicians to push the same old, same old button of socialized medicine, get the knee-jerk reaction they are looking for, and then just sit back and do nothing.

And I do see what you mean about the compensation in benefits to federal employees. It's the thing about giving up something to get something. Like contract negotiations. Federal employees were giving it up all along in their careers to get those benefits so it would not make economic sense for others to be able to buy in at the cost of someone who had worked all those years. I understand. Good point, Munc.

Like I keep saying, the people I know are not looking for a free ride. The people I know just want to be able to buy a "ticket to ride." But good groups are not available out there for so many. And to heap insult upon injury, if they can find a plan, they so often do not get what they pay for.

Anyway, I very much like what you said here. Hey, I think a big part of the problem is now solved. Do you still have any DC phone numbers so we can call up there and let them know?

Oh and I am so happy to see that you never disagree with me or question me. You have no idea how relieved I am to know that. Oh, Munc, I sure would never, ever want to try to play Jane Curtain to your Dan Aykroyd.

Boomer

[Guest]

Do you really want the fed's running our healthcare? What a mess.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090317/ap_on_go_pr_wh/stimulus_what_now

[Guest]

universal health care?? Oh I dunno one or two trillion should get us started.....STARTED!!!!

Read this for another hint....I just hope the presses can run as fast as it is being spent:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090317/D97023500.html

I now believe he doesn't care if he is a one term POTUS......there is no plan....just helter skelter...up...ok....no down....ok....no sideways...uh ok!
How about another trillion...sure!!

BTK

[Guest]

Played golf today at Heron in the friendly Men's 9-holers. One of my partners was a Canadian. I asked him if he was satisfied with his healthcare. Answer: YES!.

[Guest]

Do you really want the fed's running our healthcare? What a mess.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090317/ap_on_go_pr_wh/stimulus_what_nowno, I prefer insurance companies.... like AIG.

[Guest]

Step back for a second and think. In this the greatest nation on the planet, why does the quality of your health care depend on who you work for or how much money you make? Just on an objective basis.

That being said, I've always had geat health care through HMO's or private insurance through my employers. Now that I'm self-employed, in addition to having to pay 1 1/2 times my scoial security, my health care, if I could afford it, is not tax-deductible. There are no real "group" plans for individuals.

At more than $600 month, my insurance has a $5,000 deductible, handles only catastrophic, and has no Rx benefits. I had to join Wahlgreen's program for that. That's the capitalist system for you! Overpriced & based solely on profit. It isn't even availbale for me! My mom's Medicare is far more impressive!

Like AIG, some things are just too big to allow a monopoly by some private, for- profit interests. Paranoia about government doesbn't justify having none at all! Medicare and Social Security are very well-run programs. Paranoia about the government always being out to "get" you goes against the very reason we formed this nation. The Articles of Confededration failed, so we created a stronger document and government. Modern times and situations require that we have enough government to keep this country going. If not, the whole Tennessee Valley would be running on kerosene, you would be driving unsafe cars on two lane dirt roads since there'd be no interstates or highways, your house would burn down for lack of a fire department, and your parents might've starved during the dust bowl and the Depression. Without the "Feds" AIG decided to make unregulated dangerous swaps without proper collateral- something that can't happen to regular savings banks becasue the are regulated- and backed- by the FEDeral Deposit Insurance Corporation.

[Guest]

What you say sounds good in theory but you are leaving out the part where SS and Medicare are for the most part totally bankrupt and are shrinking by the year. After they raise the age limit a few more times you'll have paid into the system your whole life and may never get a chance to even collect.

You also leave out the countries like the UK and others that do have socialized health care that are also going bankrupt, rationing care and cutting back on benefits and services. Not to mention the overall quality of care is horrible.

Notice when someone is in serious trouble they always fly them here? There are already news stories going around that if Leam Neeson's wife got injured here in the USA she would have never died. She couldn't get the care she needed so they flew her here but by then it was too late.

Our private health care system can be fixed and left private but yet again most of the problems are caused by the government and now we're told the only answer is from government.

TORT reform has never ever been addressed by the government. One of the reasons for high health care costs is malpractice and frivolous law suits. Ask your doctor or hospital how much of your bill goes to their insurance? Oh, by the way, a lot of politicians and their buds are lawyers who make fortunes from health care lawsuits.

The list goes on and on an one. Our health care isn't broke, it's the government that's broke.

[Guest]

Played golf today at Heron in the friendly Men's 9-holers. One of my partners was a Canadian. I asked him if he was satisfied with his healthcare. Answer: YES!.

You should also ask him if he is satisfied with his taxes?

[Guest]

You should also ask him if he is satisfied with his taxes?What kinda question is that??? If I walked down mainstreet USA and asked that question what do you think the answer(s) would be?

[Guest]

It would have been a fair quesiton whether asked on main street in the US or from someone from Canada who has what is close to socialized medicine.
It is not a "trick" quesiton. It is one asking if they feel their taxes are in proportion to the medical treatment they receive.
I agree with the person who made the comment regarding the treatment in the UK which again has close to socialized medicine. I read the UK newspaper everyday and have some very basic idea of the problems they face.
I don't submit that I have the answers but it is interesting to ask questions to try to get to an answer. No one should ever be reluctant to ask a question.

[Guest]

It would have been a fair quesiton whether asked on main street in the US or from someone from Canada who has what is close to socialized medicine.
It is not a "trick" quesiton. It is one asking if they feel their taxes are in proportion to the medical treatment they receive.
I agree with the person who made the comment regarding the treatment in the UK which again has close to socialized medicine. I read the UK newspaper everyday and have some very basic idea of the problems they face.
I don't submit that I have the answers but it is interesting to ask questions to try to get to an answer. No one should ever be reluctant to ask a question.here's a good question... the next time any of you are with any of our Canadian neighbors who are spending some time down here in The Villages, ask them if they'd like to trade their current health care delivery system for ours.

[Guest]

here's a good question... the next time any of you are with any of our Canadian neighbors who are spending some time down here in The Villages, ask them if they'd like to trade their current health care delivery system for ours.

I could not agree more. It would be interesting to understand the differences between the US medical programs vs Canadian and the differences in the tax programs vs the Canadians. In addition the deliverables under both systems.

[Guest]

We presently live in Alberta, we have selected the Villages as our retirement place of first choice, in fact we will there again in October. We have lived an worked in Canada and we have also worked and lived in the USA for several years.
Let me explain clearly want we pay in Alberta and what we paid in the USA for Health care.
In Alberta for Prescription drugs. We have to purchase an insurance policy in order to be covered for meds. Our premiums for me and my wife are $160.00 per month. When we get a prescription filled we pay 20% of the prescription, the insurance company pays for the rest. However there can be restrictions as to what types of meds the insurance company will pay for. This insurance also covers most dental work. But there is a restriction by the insurance company, they will pay for posted fees. If the dentist charges more, you have to pay the difference.

The above works very well if you have insurance coverage.

Under our Provincial Health Care (which is doctor visits and hospital care), this is also our National Health care sytem. Alberta used to charge Alberta Health Care premiums up until Jan 1, 2009. Our premiums where about $500.00 per year, this fee varies from Province to Province.

Somehow, somewhere Canadians feel that our Health Care system is free. But having been involved very deeply in the Political side of the Provincial Government at present about 50% of of our taxes goes towards Medicare.

This simply means that if I pay $50,000 a year in taxes that 50% of my taxes which would be $25,000 goes to health care. Our second biggest share goes to Education.

When we lived and worked in the USA , we had to purchase insurance for health care (doc visits and hosptal) and also insurance for prescription drugs. The company I worked for paid 50% of the premiums, I pay the other 50%.

How does the tax system in Canada verses the USA differ form Canada to the USA?. You do not want to know.. In my case I pay way, way, way more in Canada then I did in the USA. In Canada we have other taxes that also go to the government, gas, smokes, GST, PST (provincial sales tax in all provinces except Alberta and the North (Yukon and NWT).

There are advantages to any system in place. In Canada many of our doctors are moving to the USA, these are the best of the best moving away. Simply because they have more opportunity to make more money and they are more free to starting there own clinics. In Canadian major surgery has to be done in a hospital. The sytem in Canada in good for general visits. Many people are having problems finding a doctor. Because of free concept guess what most people do?

If you need a specialist. If you are the lucky one to have a good doctor, then you maybe lucky to get good referal. If you have a heart attack, you will get fast tracked into a hospital. But if you have other problems and go to the emergency the line ups can be very long.

The first thing we checked when we went to the Villages, was the health care facilities as we purchase insurance when we go out of country. The Villages has the most modern, most up to date clinics I have seen anywhere and we travel alot. Rows and rows of offices clearly marked, just made us feel so comfortable. You have the best of the best.

I happen to travel and work in every province in Canada. All provinces are struggling with health care costs, not enough doctors, not enough hosptials and the refusal to let private clinics open. Many people simply will pay out of there own pocket for hip, knee replacements and do not say anything. They go the USA have this done. Many people will pay of there own MRI's because the wait can be very long in some cases. In my case I just paid for my own MRI. It was $500.00 but I could have waited the line up and it could have been free.

I hope this will give some framework as to differences. But again there is no perfect system, there never will be a perfect system, other wise everyone would have that system. The story of health care will never go away as to has a good system. Maybe there is no perfect system.

[Guest]

We presently live in Alberta, we have selected the Villages as our retirement place of first choice, in fact we will there again in October. We have lived an worked in Canada and we have also worked and lived in the USA for several years.
Let me explain clearly want we pay in Alberta and what we paid in the USA for Health care.
In Alberta for Prescription drugs. We have to purchase an insurance policy in order to be covered for meds. Our premiums for me and my wife are $160.00 per month. When we get a prescription filled we pay 20% of the prescription, the insurance company pays for the rest. However there can be restrictions as to what types of meds the insurance company will pay for. This insurance also covers most dental work. But there is a restriction by the insurance company, they will pay for posted fees. If the dentist charges more, you have to pay the difference.

The above works very well if you have insurance coverage.

Under our Provincial Health Care (which is doctor visits and hospital care), this is also our National Health care sytem. Alberta used to charge Alberta Health Care premiums up until Jan 1, 2009. Our premiums where about $500.00 per year, this fee varies from Province to Province.

Somehow, somewhere Canadians feel that our Health Care system is free. But having been involved very deeply in the Political side of the Provincial Government at present about 50% of of our taxes goes towards Medicare.

This simply means that if I pay $50,000 a year in taxes that 50% of my taxes which would be $25,000 goes to health care. Our second biggest share goes to Education.

When we lived and worked in the USA , we had to purchase insurance for health care (doc visits and hosptal) and also insurance for prescription drugs. The company I worked for paid 50% of the premiums, I pay the other 50%.

How does the tax system in Canada verses the USA differ form Canada to the USA?. You do not want to know.. In my case I pay way, way, way more in Canada then I did in the USA. In Canada we have other taxes that also go to the government, gas, smokes, GST, PST (provincial sales tax in all provinces except Alberta and the North (Yukon and NWT).

There are advantages to any system in place. In Canada many of our doctors are moving to the USA, these are the best of the best moving away. Simply because they have more opportunity to make more money and they are more free to starting there own clinics. In Canadian major surgery has to be done in a hospital. The sytem in Canada in good for general visits. Many people are having problems finding a doctor. Because of free concept guess what most people do?

If you need a specialist. If you are the lucky one to have a good doctor, then you maybe lucky to get good referal. If you have a heart attack, you will get fast tracked into a hospital. But if you have other problems and go to the emergency the line ups can be very long.

The first thing we checked when we went to the Villages, was the health care facilities as we purchase insurance when we go out of country. The Villages has the most modern, most up to date clinics I have seen anywhere and we travel alot. Rows and rows of offices clearly marked, just made us feel so comfortable. You have the best of the best.

I happen to travel and work in every province in Canada. All provinces are struggling with health care costs, not enough doctors, not enough hosptials and the refusal to let private clinics open. Many people simply will pay out of there own pocket for hip, knee replacements and do not say anything. They go the USA have this done. Many people will pay of there own MRI's because the wait can be very long in some cases. In my case I just paid for my own MRI. It was $500.00 but I could have waited the line up and it could have been free.

I hope this will give some framework as to differences. But again there is no perfect system, there never will be a perfect system, other wise everyone would have that system. The story of health care will never go away as to has a good system. Maybe there is no perfect system.

Thanks Superuke..!! What a fine comparison. I use to travel on business quite a bit to Canada and had the opportunity to meet with and have informal discussions with some of my counterparts who worked for the same firm. One of their major complaints was the high taxes they paid. We did not not get into the medical coverage or if we did I honestly don't remember the details. . I alway remember going from the airport in Toronto to the company offices and I mentioned to the Limo driver what a beautiful country. We both agreed to that but he took the opportunity to take me through what he paid in taxes and it was significant as compared to his income. I guess that stuck with me?

[Guest]

Anecdotal evidence on medical care is not a great way to compare coverage. Bureaucrats from insurance companies are just as likely to deny procedures or deny Rx coverage as any government bureaucrat, It is a statistical fact that what Americans pay for health insurance, in toto, per capita is the highest in the Western World, but the overall quality is 16th. Doctors may be moving here for the money- it just proves the other side of the coin about how expensive health care is in the U.S.

Most medical care (maybe not for the elderly, which, let's face it, we are!) is for routine medical care- and the "socialized" versions of that seem to do quite well for less money. On the other hand, specialty care seems to be much better in the U.S., and skews health care costs upward as well. That specialty care is great- if you've got a company sponsored health plan or Medicare. Those of us who are self-employed and too young for Medicare might as well be living in a third world nation when it comes to our health care options.

Someone earlier mentioned that we have the option to "shop around" for the best policy. Tell that to your employer and see how quickly you are laughed out of the office!