Here's what you'll get when you have government run health care.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...cost-much.html

Is this the path we really want? The government bankrupted social security and medicare, do you trust them with your loved one's health care?

Exactly! There will be a beaurocrat that will decide what prodedures or medications you may have based on your age, general health, health history and family history. Just when you need the help of medical science the most, the beaurocracy will deny it to you, because it is too expensive for your age and life expectancy. Some will be told "NO" and to just suffer and die, while others (those of the desirable demographic) will be approved. Your doctor esentially will be asking permission from the beaurocracy to treat. His prescriptions will be only recommendations that can be filled only if approved by the beaurocacy. Actually, we aren't that far from it now with insurance companies and HMO's. The big change will be that approvals will be government conrtolled. When that happens, it can't help but have polictics involved - the desirable demographics issue. This is exactly what is coming, and apparently sooner than we think. The TV residents, because of their general age bracket, will be very affected by the rationed health care policies as this unfolds.

Originally Posted by SNOK

Exactly! There will be a beaurocrat that will decide what prodedures or medications you may have based on your age, general health, health history and family history. Just when you need the help of medical science the most, the beaurocracy will deny it to you, because it is too expensive for your age and life expectancy. Some will be told "NO" and to just suffer and die, while others (those of the desirable demographic) will be approved. Your doctor esentially will be asking permission from the beaurocracy to treat. His prescriptions will be only recommendations that can be filled only if approved by the beaurocacy. Actually, we aren't that far from it now with insurance companies and HMO's. The big change will be that approvals will be government conrtolled. When that happens, it can't help but have polictics involved - the desirable demographics issue. This is exactly what is coming, and apparently sooner than we think. The TV residents, because of their general age bracket, will be very affected by the rationed health care policies as this unfolds.

I generally do not post on the political forum and I do not believe that the health care of Americans is a political issue. That said ...

SNOK's description of what health care would be like is EXACTLY what it is like now, with the power that the government has given 'big business insurance.'

Example: My physician recently prescribed a particular medication for me--not experimental, not even name brand, rather a generic. Mailed it in, got it back, called to find out why. Turns out a clerk decided that my physician was wrong and I didn't need it. Can you imagine?! So I ended up paying for it, meaning I enriched the insurance company in its clerk's decision to refuse it.

Example from the other point of view which I've written about on other threads: In December I was treated at The Villages Hospital ER following an accident in which I managed to turn a hand into what looked like ground beef. I received the most incredibly outstanding care there from a PA who was either directly caring for me or was hovering over me and nearby for SIX HOURS, successfully restoring my hand though I have lots of healing ahead. He submitted a bill to the insurance company for a munificent just under $500. The infamous insurance company clerk decided that I didn't need so much care and had the power to subtract slightly over $400 from this charge and paid him about $94; I pointed out that our oldest son is a grocery clerk at an upstate NY supermarket where he earns more in six hours. Is this right?

Continuing example: My hand will need another year to heal, requiring lots of therapy and exercises. First, the insurance company clerk decided that I don't need the splints and other equipment that support my healing, so I paid for them; I am fortunate that I can afford them but know that there are others who cannot. And second, as of this past Monday the hand therapist told me she has to cut back on my obviously very necessary appointments because, according to the insurance company, I'm running out of allowed visits. I'm in serious trouble....

I know someone who has a life-threatening condition requiring use of a medication that has to be carefully monitored, involving a stat blood test every couple weeks, meaning that as soon as the blood is drawn, a driver has to be called to take the specimen to the lab immediately. The lab's charge for the test: $28. The insurance company's payment for the test which is mandated as full payment (that is, no further charges for the patient) is $3. How can a lab stay in business and provide the service this person--and the rest of us at times--needs? And who pays the $28, I asked? 'Oh, the uninsured have to pay full freight!' Is this believable?

I served as a volunteer with Hospice (and was instrumental in bringing the Hospice movement into our rural corner of New York State; we are snowbirds here in TV) and can tell you that I NEVER saw the present system victimizing people MORE at a time when they are LEAST capable of dealing with it.

Or I should say, the health care system is NOW in deep excrement; tell me it's not broken! Its machinations CANNOT get worse, no matter what the government does about health care....

Originally Posted by SNOK

Exactly! There will be a beaurocrat that will decide what prodedures or medications you may have based on your age, general health, health history and family history. Just when you need the help of medical science the most, the beaurocracy will deny it to you, because it is too expensive for your age and life expectancy. Some will be told "NO" and to just suffer and die, while others (those of the desirable demographic) will be approved. Your doctor esentially will be asking permission from the beaurocracy to treat. His prescriptions will be only recommendations that can be filled only if approved by the beaurocacy. Actually, we aren't that far from it now with insurance companies and HMO's. The big change will be that approvals will be government conrtolled. When that happens, it can't help but have polictics involved - the desirable demographics issue. This is exactly what is coming, and apparently sooner than we think. The TV residents, because of their general age bracket, will be very affected by the rationed health care policies as this unfolds.

Please read Sidney's post, he says it so much better than I could.

I too shun the political on this Forum, so I am outta here!

DK & Co.,

You are cordially invited to visit a thread I started today titled "Concerned about health care?" In that thread you will be introduced to a link to a show on NPR's Fresh Air. There are two interviews. The first has to do with a very ill patient who was paying for a plan that he thought would cover him for catastrophic illness.

The second interview is with an econ professor from Princeton who tells it like it is. The guy is savvy and does not sound to me like some kind of socialist like those who are spotted under every rock these days. This guy is a realist. Economics is his area and he says we better fix this mess and fix it fast. And he knows no fix is perfect.

My thread is not in political. I just did not want to put it in political. It is far bigger than political. Too bad the politicians cannot recognize that.

So anyway, I just wanted to invite you to have a listen to some things that I hope you will find interesting. At least worth giving a little thought.

Hey, on second thought, you know what I am going to do? I am going to link that radio show from NPR right here in your thread, too.

Here it is. I'll leave the light on for you.

(edit on 3/13: This link has changed. You have to click on "past shows" and go to March 11 and you will find it.)

http://www.npr.org/templates/rundown...n.php?prgId=13



Boomer

The significant point you are missing is that today you have a choice. You could go buy insurance from someone else. Someone who provides better coverage. Now you may have to pay more for it to get the coverage you want, but you do have that choice. You decide the risk your willing to take and how much additional out of pocket your willing to spend. How much deductible your willing to shoulder. Tomorrow that choice goes away. You will pay whatever taxes you have to and get the coverage a Washington bureaucrat decides you and everyone else needs. Your freedom of choice goes away. But your payment will be whatever someone decides you can afford (taxes) and your coverage will be what ever they decide they want to give you. You are very naive to think it will be a better system when everything else the government tries to do is a mess. Think about how great our postal service is, but yet UPS and FedX can build a huge business based on how poor they perform. And that started long before e-mail hit their business.

To the folks who think our current system is bad. Yeah, let's turn it all over to the government, they are so good at running programs. I know social security is in dandy shape.

Being the Army I have lived all over the globe. If our health care is so bad, why do people from other countries that have SOCIALIZED care, come here for surgeries? HHMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?????????


Army Guy

In August of 1977, The Department of Energy was instituted to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. Thirty one years later, the budget for this federal agency is 24.2 Billion dollars per year.

With 16,000 permanent employees and roughly 100,000 contract employees, have they gotten us any closer to their stated objective? Are we seriously considering turning Health Care, the Banking System & the Auto Industry over to them?

We should consider with great care that for which we ask, because in a representative republic, we will get it.

I think we can all agree our health care system needs some improving even though it's still the best in the world. No system is infallible.

Many seem to forget that it all has to be paid for with our tax dollars. Remember the social security trust fund? the lock box? the account we've all been paying into all of our lives?

Guess what? They wasted it all on God knows what that had nothing to do with SS and now the system is going bankrupt.

I can't believe anyone in their right mind would support turning our health care over to the bureaucrats in Washington.

in my corporate life I had operations in many countries, so I will pick one like Belgium (true for Germany as well)...when hiring or maintaining a new GM or Director guess what the two top priority issues were in the comp package? Not how much the salary would be. First was car of their choice with all expenses paid including the fuel!...usually a top end Mercedes or BMW. Second was health care provided in the USA when they were here for reviews, vacations, etc. Medications were not so much the problem as was acute care needs. It was very bureaucratic, with waiting lists for major surgery.
These are countries where health care is "free" as well as college education is "free"....just to name a couple.

With tax rates approaching 70% the salary was least important as long as it provided maintaining the appropriate life style.

Yes everybody was "entitled" to the free stuff....when it was your turn!!!!
And most noteworthy is the tax rate.

They were always in awe at how much more money executives here in the USA were able to keep.

If hospitals and doctors are overwhelmed in our current day....can you imagine the crush if it ever went to free?

If it ever gets to that proportion here, it is a sure bet there will be separate health care providers available for those who don't want the free stuff.

Capitalism and free enterprise are the only answer.....not free (because it isn't).

BTK

Originally Posted by Army Guy

Being the Army I have lived all over the globe. If our health care is so bad, why do people from other countries that have SOCIALIZED care, come here for surgeries? HHMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?????????


Army Guy

What did you think of the medical care you received in the Army?

Originally Posted by dklassen

I can't believe anyone in their right mind would support turning our health care over to the bureaucrats in Washington.

Enough said. What else is there to discuss ?

rshoffer, I have never had any heartburn with the Army medical care. Always took good care of me and the wife when ever we need it. It also depends where you are versus how much they have. Some places I have been stationed it was just a Clinic and had to travel to an actual hospitial. So it can vary. But as far as the care, no problems.

Army Guy

Originally Posted by Army Guy

rshoffer, I have never had any heartburn with the Army medical care. Always took good care of me and the wife when ever we need it. It also depends where you are versus how much they have. Some places I have been stationed it was just a Clinic and had to travel to an actual hospitial. So it can vary. But as far as the care, no problems.

Army Guy

I rest my case.