Single-payer would cost a third of current health care costs per family

[wjboyer1]

Single-Payer Would Cost A Third of Current Health Care Costs Per Family | calitics (http://calitics.com/index.php/2017/05/22/single-payer-would-cost-a-third-of-current-health-care-costs-per-family/)

Single-Payer Myths; Single-Payer Facts | Physicians for a National Health Program (http://www.pnhp.org/facts/singlepayer_myths_singlepayer_facts.php)

Single payer healthcare is coming to America. It’s inevitable. – Fabius Maximus website (https://fabiusmaximus.com/2017/03/17/single-payer-healthcare-will-come-to-america/)

[rubicon]

Name one program the federal government has operated with efficiency, without fraud and abuse, without political underpinnings and without chaos. Placing the entire health care system into the hands of the federal government is a terrible mistake and reeks of socialism

Again we find people who have a belief that feeding from the federal goverment trough is desirable.

The more federal government control the less freedom citizens will have on their own lives.

As Margaret Thatcher wisely observed "the problem with socialism is what do you do when you run out of other peoples money"

If people truly desire better health care that will advance in its technologies then look to the markets. The truly needing have always been taken car of in this society. what we have now are too many freeloaders

Personal Best Regards:

[MDLNB]

Single payer does not work, period.

Check any country with a gov run health care system and you will find that they can not sustain it financially. Taxes in those countries are sky high and service is slow. The only ones that get decent service are those that can afford private insurance. America is way too large to be able to afford to pay for gov run socialized medicine. Even Obiecare stole a trillion bucks from Medicare to subsidize Medicaid. Single payer can't happen in America. If you wish to put doctors on salaries and make them gov employees, first check out the VA. And if you wish to be able to sue for malpractice, good luck because it wont' happen if the gov is the employer.

Gotta love it when the left always looks over the fence at those big green pastures, thinking that everyone else has it better than they do. Busybodies is their profession. Whiners by trait. Lazy by nature and the party of excuses.

[Don Baldwin]

Name one program the federal government has operated with efficiency, without fraud and abuse, without political underpinnings and without chaos. Placing the entire health care system into the hands of the federal government is a terrible mistake and reeks of socialism

Again we find people who have a belief that feeding from the federal goverment trough is desirable.

The more federal government control the less freedom citizens will have on their own lives.

As Margaret Thatcher wisely observed "the problem with socialism is what do you do when you run out of other peoples money"

If people truly desire better health care that will advance in its technologies then look to the markets. The truly needing have always been taken car of in this society. what we have now are too many freeloaders

Personal Best Regards:

Women and minorities. They're takers more than makers.

What little freedom we still have left. MILLION of laws and regulations. EVERYTHING is taxed. We were freer under King George BEFORE the revolution.

Now they just borrow it...add it to the federal debt...so what if EVERY man, woman, and child owed over $60,000 as their part. So what if the interest payments are $600 billion a year. They DESERVE the live as well as they do...they're "Americans".

The COST of healthcare is simply too high. It's NOT sustainable. If healthcare is to become a commodity...they'll have to start accepting commodity pricing and salaries.

Single payer does not work, period.

Check any country with a gov run health care system and you will find that they can not sustain it financially. Taxes in those countries are sky high and service is slow. The only ones that get decent service are those that can afford private insurance. America is way too large to be able to afford to pay for gov run socialized medicine. Even Obiecare stole a trillion bucks from Medicare to subsidize Medicaid. Single payer can't happen in America. If you wish to put doctors on salaries and make them gov employees, first check out the VA. And if you wish to be able to sue for malpractice, good luck because it wont' happen if the gov is the employer.

Gotta love it when the left always looks over the fence at those big green pastures, thinking that everyone else has it better than they do. Busybodies is their profession. Whiners by trait. Lazy by nature and the party of excuses.

Because we WORKED to get those pastures green...we MAINTAIN those pastures to keep them green...we CONTROL those pastures to keep them green. The liberals/minorities invade the pasture and trample it until it dies. Like they did to the freedom pointe "dog park". Too many people/dogs is what ruined it. Too many UNCARING what THEIR actions do...is what ruined it. Too many using it...trampled and killed the grass. Same as it ever was.

[dbussone]

Single-Payer Would Cost A Third of Current Health Care Costs Per Family | calitics (http://calitics.com/index.php/2017/05/22/single-payer-would-cost-a-third-of-current-health-care-costs-per-family/)



Single-Payer Myths; Single-Payer Facts | Physicians for a National Health Program (http://www.pnhp.org/facts/singlepayer_myths_singlepayer_facts.php)



Single payer healthcare is coming to America. It’s inevitable. – Fabius Maximus website (https://fabiusmaximus.com/2017/03/17/single-payer-healthcare-will-come-to-america/)



I think your data may be a little out of date. Very recent analysis for CA shows single payer for all in CA would cost more than the (ridiculous) total current state budget. And this from a liberal SanFran newspaper.

Single-payer health care would cost more than California budget - SFGate (http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Single-payer-health-care-would-cost-more-than-11164959.php)

Sorry to break the news. As ObamaCare so aptly demonstrated, government involvement in healthcare just increases the cost.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Don Baldwin]

I think your data may be a little out of date. Very recent analysis for CA shows single payer for all in CA would cost more than the (ridiculous) total current state budget. And this from a liberal SanFran newspaper.

Single-payer health care would cost more than California budget - SFGate (http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Single-payer-health-care-would-cost-more-than-11164959.php)

Sorry to break the news. As ObamaCare so aptly demonstrated, government involvement in healthcare just increases the cost.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

You can't give everyone $1,000 a month in value healthcare coverage for free. That's $350 billion a month. 350 million people in America...times $1,000 a month...equals $350 billion a month. That's $4,200,000,000,000 a year. Practically the entire federal budget.

[dbussone]

You can't give everyone $1,000 a month in value healthcare coverage for free. That's $350 billion a month. 350 million people in America...times $1,000 a month...equals $350 billion a month. That's $4,200,000,000,000 a year. Practically the entire federal budget.



As I said...but that is also what the nuts in CA are considering...passing a bill that would cost more than the current state budget, plus an additional $200 billion.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Topspinmo]

Name one program the federal government has operated with efficiency, without fraud and abuse, without political underpinnings and without chaos. Placing the entire health care system into the hands of the federal government is a terrible mistake and reeks of socialism

Again we find people who have a belief that feeding from the federal goverment trough is desirable.

The more federal government control the less freedom citizens will have on their own lives.

As Margaret Thatcher wisely observed "the problem with socialism is what do you do when you run out of other peoples money"

If people truly desire better health care that will advance in its technologies then look to the markets. The truly needing have always been taken car of in this society. what we have now are too many freeloaders

Personal Best Regards:


Ok, name one insurance company that's not fruaded the federal government/taxpayers out of billions. Insurance CEO's don't get millions in stocks and bonuses by doing business on the up and up, they find way to Cheat somebody. Either the government or insurance payer gets screwed. The system corrupt insurance for the most part legal racketeering.

There will be single payer eventually once the career politicians are removed from the scheme.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

In most countries where there is a single payer system, the system is constantly on the verge of bankruptcy and the quality of care is less than excellent. In addition care is often rationed.

I had a friend from England who desperately needed a hip replacement. She was placed on a waiting list and waited, in pain, for years. When she was finally called she was told that she was too old for that surgery as it wasn't cost efficient to spend the money on a new hip when she was probably going to die within the next few years. So she lived the last twelve years of her life in serious pain and addicted to pain killers which were also rationed.

When the system begins to get into financial trouble, taxes are raised. I just had a conversation with a British friend who defends the National Health but was complaining because they just raised taxes on self employed persons which includes her.

Gas is $4-$6 per gallon in Canada with most of that money going to taxes to support "free" health care.

And like Britain people in Canada are often on waiting lists. Those with serious problems that can afford it often come across the border top the U.S. to get treatment.

The French health care system is on the verge of bankruptcy and exceeds it's budget by billions of Euros each year.

This is why so many in this country are against such a system. Of course many are fooled by thinking that they will get something for free.

And as Rubicon points out, our government never does anything efficiently. There is an incredible amount of waste in every area of our federal government. I fear that if a single payer system was ever put in place here, politicians would use it to pay for their re-election campaigns. Every member of congress and every senator would be trying to get as much out of it for their state. The pork would be astronomical.

[MDLNB]

Ok, name one insurance company that's not fruaded the federal government/taxpayers out of billions. Insurance CEO's don't get millions in stocks and bonuses by doing business on the up and up, they find way to Cheat somebody. Either the government or insurance payer gets screwed. The system corrupt insurance for the most part legal racketeering.

There will be single payer eventually once the career politicians are removed from the scheme.

Oh, thank goodness! We have nothing to worry about then. Never happen.


Sent from my tomato soup can with fiber optic for speed

[Don Baldwin]

Ok, name one insurance company that's not fruaded the federal government/taxpayers out of billions. Insurance CEO's don't get millions in stocks and bonuses by doing business on the up and up, they find way to Cheat somebody. Either the government or insurance payer gets screwed. The system corrupt insurance for the most part legal racketeering.

There will be single payer eventually once the career politicians are removed from the scheme.

The politicians CAUSE it to go single payer...they'll contract it out to insurance companies. JP Morgan runs the EBT system. Humana runs the military healthcare system. That's what government does...monopolizes and gives the jobs to it's friends.

[rubicon]

Ok, name one insurance company that's not fruaded the federal government/taxpayers out of billions. Insurance CEO's don't get millions in stocks and bonuses by doing business on the up and up, they find way to Cheat somebody. Either the government or insurance payer gets screwed. The system corrupt insurance for the most part legal racketeering.

There will be single payer eventually once the career politicians are removed from the scheme.

Where do I begin with a response with so little space and time. Insurance is so regulated by both state/federal that they must adhere to and explain in an audit the how, why of their actuarial projections, the split in premium between benefits and expenses is narrow. healthcare carriers expense ratio is even more conservative than property/casualty companies. Insurance companies earn a profit primarily by controlling their expenses not in the payout of claims.
...........................................

Its up to the board of directors as to the amount they pay their CEO's and his/her staff but that comes out of the expense portion of the company. Check the actual net profits made by insurance companies. small.

the fraud you speak of results more from the peripheral venue .............................

Haven't you been paying attention as to how many healthcare carriers have exited the healthcare market. do you know why? that's a rhetorical question

I earned my CPCU,CLU,CHFC and there still was so much more to understand about this complex business

I can tell you that each of those Societies has a written set of ethics and a demand that an ethical oath be taken before such a designation is conferred

Indeed we have our bad apples too but there is genuine internal policing unlike other occupations.

you paint with a very broad brush and that is always a sign that emotion has overtaken reasoning.

Personal Best Regards:

[Joe De Vito]

You can't give everyone $1,000 a month in value healthcare coverage for free. That's $350 billion a month. 350 million people in America...times $1,000 a month...equals $350 billion a month. That's $4,200,000,000,000 a year. Practically the entire federal budget.

First of all, it doesn't cost $1,000. per month per citizen. A family of 5 doesn't pay $5,000. per month or $60,000. a year. Your logic just doesn't fly. Who is saying that single payer health insurance will be free for everyone? They are talking about a 15% tax to cover the health insurance.

If you make $60,000. per year, a 15% tax would be $9,000. per year. It didn't say what a business would be tax on sales or net income. I can't imagine even Cal. would tax people 15% for health insurance.

What also doesn't make sense is how are health insurance companies making money Cal? There has to be a cartload of people that are uninsured. I am sure that there are plenty of illegals in Cal. Why would you insure illegals?

[Don Baldwin]

First of all, it doesn't cost $1,000. per month per citizen. A family of 5 doesn't pay $5,000. per month or $60,000. a year. Your logic just doesn't fly. Who is saying that single payer health insurance will be free for everyone? They are talking about a 15% tax to cover the health insurance.

If you make $60,000. per year, a 15% tax would be $9,000. per year. It didn't say what a business would be tax on sales or net income. I can't imagine even Cal. would tax people 15% for health insurance.

What also doesn't make sense is how are health insurance companies making money Cal? There has to be a cartload of people that are uninsured. I am sure that there are plenty of illegals in Cal. Why would you insure illegals?

The average person uses a $ million worth of healthcare in a lifetime. To get a million dollars takes 1,000 $1,000 payments...or more than 80 years at $1,000 a month.

Half the country receives some government benefit, those receiving welfare aren't paying anything. No tax. It becomes another benefit.

I'm just telling you what healthcare actually costs. The government borrows over a $ trillion a year spending a lot of that subsidizing healthcare.

The illegals over the last 40 years dropped 50 million anchor babies who are having their own babies...so many that Hispanics are the majority of babies born....so many that Hispanics are the majority starting school...so many that Hispanics are the MAJORITY below the age of 7. The illegals are breeding us out of our own country by dropping "citizens" by the millions.

[rubicon]

The average person uses a $ million worth of healthcare in a lifetime. To get a million dollars takes 1,000 $1,000 payments...or more than 80 years at $1,000 a month.

Half the country receives some government benefit, those receiving welfare aren't paying anything. No tax. It becomes another benefit.

I'm just telling you what healthcare actually costs. The government borrows over a $ trillion a year spending a lot of that subsidizing healthcare.

The illegals over the last 40 years dropped 50 million anchor babies who are having their own babies...so many that Hispanics are the majority of babies born....so many that Hispanics are the majority starting school...so many that Hispanics are the MAJORITY below the age of 7. The illegals are breeding us out of our own country by dropping "citizens" by the millions.

Some experts have pointed out that the people in this nation, unlike say those in Denmark, would be prone to overuse services because they are provided free. well not free taxpayers will foot the bill and we know politicians are frugal with taxpayer dollars.

This nation is not in 19 trillion dollar debt it is substantially more when you throw in interest, interest that continues because the debt continues.

Just take a look at the amount of debt in the last 8 years to that of the previous 43 presidents. Something has got to give

We have become a nation that has developed an "entitlement mentality" and have long forgotten the realities of life

Personal Best Regards:

[Joe De Vito]

Some experts have pointed out that the people in this nation, unlike say those in Denmark, would be prone to overuse services because they are provided free. well not free taxpayers will foot the bill and we know politicians are frugal with taxpayer dollars.

This nation is not in 19 trillion dollar debt it is substantially more when you throw in interest, interest that continues because the debt continues.

Just take a look at the amount of debt in the last 8 years to that of the previous 43 presidents. Something has got to give

We have become a nation that has developed an "entitlement mentality" and have long forgotten the realities of life

Personal Best Regards:

You are treating the increase in national debt to government spending. please explain the following:

Year Budget Deficit National debt Increase Debt
2008 458 10,025
2009 1,413 11,910 1,885
2010 1,294 13,562 1,652
2011 1,295 14,790 1,228
2012 1,087 16,066 1,276
2013 679 16,738 672
2014 485 17,824 1,086
2015 438 18,151 327
2016 585 19,573 1,422

The budget deficit does include interest on the debt. The sequester was suppose to move to a balanced budget. Look at the debt increase over the last three years under the sequester, how did the debt increase so much?

[Joe De Vito]

I will try to fix the worksheet.

Year Budget Deficit National debt Increase Debt
2008.......458.................10,025
2009....1,413.................11,910.............. 1,885
2010....1,294.................13,562.............. 1,652
2011....1,295.................14,790.............. 1,228
2012....1,087.................16,066.............. 1,276
2013......679..................16,738............. ...672
2014......485..................17,824............. 1,086
2015......438..................18,151............. ...327
2016......585..................19,573............. 1,422

My worksheet was fine. However, the talk get rid of multiple spaces.

[Rockyrd]

Some experts have pointed out that the people in this nation, unlike say those in Denmark, would be prone to overuse services because they are provided free. well not free taxpayers will foot the bill and we know politicians are frugal with taxpayer dollars.

This nation is not in 19 trillion dollar debt it is substantially more when you throw in interest, interest that continues because the debt continues.

Just take a look at the amount of debt in the last 8 years to that of the previous 43 presidents. Something has got to give

We have become a nation that has developed an "entitlement mentality" and have long forgotten the realities of life

Personal Best Regards:

Was not the body that controls spending in total control of the Republican Party ?

Was Trump the only Republican candidate who did not make one of his central points to reduce deficits ?

He actually thinks so little of his supporters that he tweeted about 6 weeks after in office that he was already responsible for reducing the debt by 12 Billion dollars. He really does not respect the intelligence of even those who,support him. He knows you accept his every word and never ever check what he says.

[wjboyer1]

CBO: Republican health care bill raises premiums for older, poor Americans by as much as 850%

CBO: Republican health care bill raises premiums for older, poor Americans by as much as 850% - Vox (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/24/15687500/cbo-ahca-premiums-age)

68868

[Joe De Vito]

CBO: Republican health care bill raises premiums for older, poor Americans by as much as 850%

CBO: Republican health care bill raises premiums for older, poor Americans by as much as 850% - Vox (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/24/15687500/cbo-ahca-premiums-age)

68868

Paul Ryan tried to defend the House's plan today.
Paul Ryan responds to CBO score on AHCA, GOP healthcare bill - Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com/paul-ryan-cbo-score-ahca-healthcare-bill-2017-5)

The House's plan isn't worth a damn. If you are old, or have a preexisting condition, and live in a Republican controlled state, you had better move. Most of these states didn't take the Medicaid plan in the ACA. They cried that they couldn't afford it. Ryan is expecting these same people to throw in more money to help supplement the high risk pool. Why, because the plan is a Republican plan? He is living in a dream world.

He keep mentioning states like Wisconsin, and Maine. Why didn't he mentioned where the real problem is in the South, and Mid West?

By the way, Maine has open boarders for help insurance carriers, and there have been no takers. So much for the Republicans phase 2, and 3 of the health insurance fix.

[Paper1]

Some experts have pointed out that the people in this nation, unlike say those in Denmark, would be prone to overuse services because they are provided free. well not free taxpayers will foot the bill and we know politicians are frugal with taxpayer dollars.

This nation is not in 19 trillion dollar debt it is substantially more when you throw in interest, interest that continues because the debt continues.

Just take a look at the amount of debt in the last 8 years to that of the previous 43 presidents. Something has got to give

We have become a nation that has developed an "entitlement mentality" and have long forgotten the realities of life

Personal Best Regards:

Does it not depend on who's entitlement you are talking about. The 8 years that you refer to I assume means Obama did this? The 19 trillion palls besides the real number if you add in promises and entilements not are not backed up with a single red cent, just the good faith of US government. Happened way before Obama. Everyone hates Congress, with an approval rating in low teens but 90% plus get returned to office. Why is that. Deficiet spending doesn't require tough decisions. Solving the medical care crisis can be done equitably but not without sacrifice and tough decisions being made. WW2 was the last time Americans sacrificed financially, not in our DNA any longer. Remember the response when Jimmy Carter asking us to turn down thermostats when OPEC closed the oil valve. It was not "lets pull together".

[Allegiance]

A single payer plan would work, just make sure the borders are closed airtight and the illegals are sent home

[rubicon]

if you want to see what would happen with a single payer plan look at the performance of medicare, medicaid and the VA. Doctors complain that under medicare and medicaid they are paid little and under medicaid sometimes not at all. In the long run, how much time realistically will a doctor(s) spend with a medicaid, medicare patients?

many doctors simply refuse to accept medicare or medicaid patients. some doctors work on a cash basis only. you pay me. I'll give you a bill and a DX and you chase after the money

The last people who should be involved in handling health care reimbursement is the government

Personal Best Regards:

[Joe De Vito]

if you want to see what would happen with a single payer plan look at the performance of medicare, medicaid and the VA. Doctors complain that under medicare and medicaid they are paid little and under medicaid sometimes not at all. In the long run, how much time realistically will a doctor(s) spend with a medicaid, medicare patients?

many doctors simply refuse to accept medicare or medicaid patients. some doctors work on a cash basis only. you pay me. I'll give you a bill and a DX and you chase after the money

The last people who should be involved in handling health care reimbursement is the government

Personal Best Regards:


That's right look at Medicaid, and Medicare.

Someone posted that 1 million dollars is spent on average per person on health. Then he went into 4.2 trillion per year. Accept the 1 million dollar per person; however, a majority of that money is spent at age 60 and above. Medicare kicks in at age sixty five. So, a bulk of the of the million dollars is covered by Medicare. Medicare isn't broke right now. Our employer and us combine paid a little over 15% per year. Our portion was reduced a little in our final working years.

When California throws 15% out there for single payer, they are in the ball park. That might be a little high depending on the percentage of the 1 million is spent on people under 65.

Insurance companies are in the business to make money. Is that stretch to say? The money that they make could go to doctors under a single payer plan.

Therefore, doctors working with Medicare and Medicaid may get paid more, if we have a single payer. Now to keep Medicare, and Medicaid spending inline doctors are paid less. What the doctors have are loyal patients. They could charge more in our current system, and make less, if their clients don't return to them. So, don't shed a tear for doctors.

If government can't administer a single payer plan, give that job to an insurance company. However, the government will determine what they are paid, and that charge will be reviewed annually.

When Trump cleans the DC swamp, and all the lobbyist are sent packaging, we will have a single payer plan.

The Republicans are trying to dance around the filibuster rule to push through their health care plan. They are not even talking to Democrats. Don't even insult our intelligence by saying Democrats pushed through the ACA without a single Republican vote. They at least tried. However, the Republicans were in the don't vote for anything Obama puts forward mode that last eight years, and resulted in the split government we have now. THEY SHOULD BE SO PROUD.

Buyer beware. When the Democrats gain the same power as Republicans have now, and if the Republicans succeed with their health insurance plan, we will have single payer. The Democrats will follow their lead just as they are doing with going against everything Trump puts forward. What go around, comes around.