Closing The Book On The Bush Legacy

[Guest]

"Thursday's annual Census Bureau report on income, poverty and access to health care-the Bureau's principal report card on the well-being of average Americans-closes the books on the economic record of George W. Bush.

It's not a record many Republicans are likely to point to with pride."

http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/09/closing_the_book_on_the_bush_legacy.php

[Guest]

being focused upon. For all the comparison's presented one would have to see the last 5, 10, 15, 20 (pick a number) years. Then one could look at any slice and get a good trend.

A President's legacy isn't based on the census "trends". It may be relavent information as part of the legacy, but not the legacy. In my humble opinion.

Using the census basis then we already know the next president after Obama will go down in history for having bankrupt Medicare and perhaps social security happen on their watch when the seeds have been germinating for some time....and the current administration is adding fertilizer quicker than money can be printed. He/she would also have the highest deficit in history inheriting the bail out, health care and cap and tax fall out being sown currently.

Events that occur during one's term in the WH are not just the result of the incumbent.

Statistics are what they are and will be what they will be depending upon the objective(s) of the author(s).

btk

[Guest]

"Thursday's annual Census Bureau report on income, poverty and access to health care-the Bureau's principal report card on the well-being of average Americans-closes the books on the economic record of George W. Bush.

It's not a record many Republicans are likely to point to with pride."

http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/09/closing_the_book_on_the_bush_legacy.php

Are you saying that Obama will stop blaming Bush and start taking responsibility like a big boy?

I only hope that everyone looks back on the Obama presidency as a booming success.

Yoda

[Guest]

There is a good possibility that if Bush had not protected us the way he did many of us would not be here today.

If i am correct in this assumption Bush will end up with a very good legacy.

[Guest]

There is a good possibility that if Bush had not protected us the way he did many of us would not be here today.

If i am correct in this assumption Bush will end up with a very good legacy.

Don't hold your breath.:a20:

[Guest]

There is a good possibility that if Bush had not protected us the way he did many of us would not be here today.

If i am correct in this assumption Bush will end up with a very good legacy.

I'm sorry, but I still don't get this "Bush protecting us" thing. Things that had to be done... should have been done, before 9/11. "Not being attacked" and "Protecting us" are two completely different things. I will give him some credit, but not much.

And the interesting thing is that everyone and I mean EVERYONE back Bush, immediately after 9/11. But would the same happen for Obama??? NO! Richard Clark was asked that the other night and his reply was "I think Dick Cheney already answered that. He said if we were attacked now it would be Obama's fault for not protecting us enough." Cheney is such a complete and utter arse, he should just melt into the background and go away! Also, Richard Clark said we are "somewhat" safer, but still not much. He said the the taking off of the shoes, no liquids, etc. was more show than anything else. His words, not mine.

I also think that raising the color level on terrorist attacks during election time was just another Bush/Rove "cheap trick" ala Tom Ridge. His words, not mine. And what the heck was that stupid color code all about anyway! It's like Grr-Animals for Terrorists. How ridiculous! I can see Bin Laden sitting back saying "oh, let's see if we can raise them to orange, I'll send out another tape!" Geesh!

I think that George W. Bush's legacy will be one of President Buffoon! And well deserved. I also think the people that still defend him, are really just defending their vote. Just my opinion.

Now onto passing Health Care Reform!!! Yeah!

[Guest]

What we are seeing is not a Bush legacy and has little to nothing to do with Obama, Bush, Cheney, etc. What we are seeing is a series of Ponzi schemes coming to an end. These Ponzi schemes started in the thirties with Social Security. The voters then voted themselves a retirement that would be paid for by their children; later their children would pay for their children’s retirements and so on and so forth. Today social security is going broke and we are projected that not too far in the future we will have only two workers for each retired person.

The second great Ponzi scheme was retirement plans for government employees. This started after WWII. These retirement programs have never been funded and have continued to be paid out of general revenues. Today, we have a 37 Trillion dollar unfunded liability that we are trying to leave to the next generation.

The third great Ponzi scheme was Medicare, started in the 1960's. Again a generation decided to fund its expenses, in this case medical, by taxing its children. The children could then tax their children, and so on. I made a somewhat more expanded post on the Medicare problem, but the long and short of it is that Medicare paid out more in 2009 than it took in from Medicare taxes and the trust fund. This situation continues to get worse. By 2014, Medicare payouts will be double Medicare revenues. The shortfall, approximately 1 Trillion dollars per year will be added to the already projected deficit of 9 trillion plus. It will simply get worse after that.

Similar Ponzi schemes have been bringing down corporations (General Motors for example) and state and local governments. This nations most prosperous state, California, has an economy that is slightly more than 20% of the US economy and larger than all but a few countries. As we all know, California is on the brink of declaring bankruptcy. Cities, particularly in California have started to declare bankruptcy.

There is no doubt that our decline has been hastened by three events: (1) the stock market crash near the end of the Clinton administration that not only wiped out a great deal of personal wealth, but put and end to the budget surpluses - no capital gains, no payments to the Treasury; (2) The attacks of 9/11. This not only threw the economy into a tailspin, it required significantly increase government expenditures for security; (3) the costs for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. These while they may or may not have been necessary - aggravated the problem, it did not and could not undo the sweeping deficits that will be caused by these Ponzi schemes. To put it perspective, the Iraq war will add less to the deficit than will be added by Medicare each and every year starting with 2013 and going forward.

Whether or not, the US, as a nation, can undo the damage being caused by these Ponzi schemes is yet to be determined. To date, no leader has come forward dealing with these honestly. To his credit, George Bush, tried for a small reform in Social Security that would have permitted something, admittedly not much, to be left over for our grandchildren. He was loudly booed in his address to Congress for proposing such a thing. None of the reforms being proposed today from either side of the aisle admit to and face these problems.

Like any other Ponzi scheme, our government's programs have been designed to let the 'early' investors profit at the expense of the follow-on investors. In this case, it was much longer range - those of us who comprised the 'greatest generation' and those born before 1945 have been the beneficiaries of these schemes. The money pot has run dry and our children and grandchildren will suffer as a result.

[Guest]

BBQMAN: Excellent post. I don't think that gold is going for over $1000 per ounce for no reason. But if China and a few other countries were to cash in , we are in big doo doo. :agree::agree:

[Guest]

chatter/splatter of the pre election/2008 era return to the political forum.

btk

[Guest]

Are you saying that Obama will stop blaming Bush and start taking responsibility like a big boy?

I only hope that everyone looks back on the Obama presidency as a booming success.
Yoda

Like the Bush administration taking responsibility for 9/11....or are they still blaming Clinton?

[Guest]

Like the Bush administration taking responsibility for 9/11....or are they still blaming Clinton?


It is totally incredible to me that with what is happening right now in our country that there would be a discussion of Bush or Clinton or anyone else ever in history !!!! Simply amazing !!!

You can say what you want about George Bush and I surely have said a number of them, but to turn a blind eye to what is happening RIGHT NOW is just hard to believe. You party hacks better wake up and SOON !

I am tired of both parties lying to us....and am concerned about NOW....I was critical of Bush and am critical of the current president but what is happening right now is beyond anyone's imagination and we talk about Bush...that is just simply not something I can fathom.

If the best you can do in discussing the issues being presented to us now...if your only basis for support of this administration is to criticize the last president then you are NOT PAYING ATTENTION AT ALL....

And someone said that if attacked that americans would not support the President because it is Obama...or something to that effect...if I read it correctly, and if not I apologize, but if I did....stick it in your ear...that is the kind of anti america talk that is killing us. We always come together when the country is under attack and to insinuate that I would not because of my feelings about the President is insulting AT BEST !

I am sick and tired of being either called something or something insinuated when I criticize this president....slowly but surely people are coming back to their senses after being beaten to death with that concept for a year or more. As wrong as it was for those few who called those opposed to Bush "anti american" it is simply just as wrong to have any criticism of this man Obama potrayed as something wrong...I am really tired of it.

I am tired of hearing what I heard about those who marched on Washington....the President made a remark about how the folks where he spoke as they marched as more friendly...and Axlerod...he said those millions who marched are just plain wrong...what a great attitude !


"Remember Barack Obama's famous speech on race, back in March of 2008? Obama had spent 20 years listening to the sermons of Jeremiah Wright, full of venomous anti-Americanism and attacks on "white America." Yet when the reverend's rants were revealed to the public, Obama tried to convince us that he just happened to be missing from the pews on any well-documented Sunday, and that the Jeremiah Wright we saw and heard was not the Jeremiah Wright he knew.

It was a giant, implausible lie. Yet the speech was smoothly delivered and well-turned, perfectly balanced to seem to empathize both with the grievances of blacks and with the concerns of whites. So most people seemed to believe it.

This is what Obama's supposed gift for rhetoric amounts to: the ability to tell a smoothly polished bald-faced lie."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/09/14/obamas_dissolving_credibility_98294.html

[Guest]

It is totally incredible to me that with what is happening right now in our country that there would be a discussion of Bush or Clinton or anyone else ever in history !!!! Simply amazing !!!

You can say what you want about George Bush and I surely have said a number of them, but to turn a blind eye to what is happening RIGHT NOW is just hard to believe. You party hacks better wake up and SOON !

I am tired of both parties lying to us....and am concerned about NOW....I was critical of Bush and am critical of the current president but what is happening right now is beyond anyone's imagination and we talk about Bush...that is just simply not something I can fathom.

If the best you can do in discussing the issues being presented to us now...if your only basis for support of this administration is to criticize the last president then you are NOT PAYING ATTENTION AT ALL....

And someone said that if attacked that americans would not support the President because it is Obama...or something to that effect...if I read it correctly, and if not I apologize, but if I did....stick it in your ear...that is the kind of anti america talk that is killing us. We always come together when the country is under attack and to insinuate that I would not because of my feelings about the President is insulting AT BEST !

I am sick and tired of being either called something or something insinuated when I criticize this president....slowly but surely people are coming back to their senses after being beaten to death with that concept for a year or more. As wrong as it was for those few who called those opposed to Bush "anti american" it is simply just as wrong to have any criticism of this man Obama potrayed as something wrong...I am really tired of it.

I am tired of hearing what I heard about those who marched on Washington....the President made a remark about how the folks where he spoke as they marched as more friendly...and Axlerod...he said those millions who marched are just plain wrong...what a great attitude !


"Remember Barack Obama's famous speech on race, back in March of 2008? Obama had spent 20 years listening to the sermons of Jeremiah Wright, full of venomous anti-Americanism and attacks on "white America." Yet when the reverend's rants were revealed to the public, Obama tried to convince us that he just happened to be missing from the pews on any well-documented Sunday, and that the Jeremiah Wright we saw and heard was not the Jeremiah Wright he knew.

It was a giant, implausible lie. Yet the speech was smoothly delivered and well-turned, perfectly balanced to seem to empathize both with the grievances of blacks and with the concerns of whites. So most people seemed to believe it.

This is what Obama's supposed gift for rhetoric amounts to: the ability to tell a smoothly polished bald-faced lie."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/09/14/obamas_dissolving_credibility_98294.html

Bucco, take a chill pill! Check out the title of the thread to see why people just might be commenting on Bush.

And for someone that doesn't want any "history" brought up, you seem to have NOOOOOOOOOO problem with bringing up Rev. Wright over and over and over again.

Also, the man that commented on what Cheney said about no one will back Obama, should we be attacked, was not just some talking head or drive-by commentator... It was Richard Clark! Perhaps you'd like to check out his credentials.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_A._Clarke

Richard Alan Clarke[1] (born October 1951) was a U.S. government employee for 30 years, 1973–2003. He worked for the State Department during the presidency of Ronald Reagan.[2] Following the presidency of George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton promoted Clarke to be the chief counter-terrorism adviser on the U.S. National Security Council. Under George W. Bush, Clarke no longer had cabinet-level access, but continued in the same position until his retirement in January 2003, serving as a member of the Senior Executive Service, specializing in intelligence, cyber security and counter-terrorism.

When this man talks... I'd listen!

In my opinion, Cheney is and was as destructive to this country as a nuclear weapon. I sense pure evil in that man.

[Guest]

Bucco, take a chill pill! Check out the title of the thread to see why people just might be commenting on Bush.

And for someone that doesn't want any "history" brought up, you seem to have NOOOOOOOOOO problem with bringing up Rev. Wright over and over and over again.

Also, the man that commented on what Cheney said about no one will back Obama, should we be attacked, was not just some talking head or drive-by commentator... It was Richard Clark! Perhaps you'd like to check out his credentials.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_A._Clarke

Richard Alan Clarke[1] (born October 1951) was a U.S. government employee for 30 years, 1973–2003. He worked for the State Department during the presidency of Ronald Reagan.[2] Following the presidency of George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton promoted Clarke to be the chief counter-terrorism adviser on the U.S. National Security Council. Under George W. Bush, Clarke no longer had cabinet-level access, but continued in the same position until his retirement in January 2003, serving as a member of the Senior Executive Service, specializing in intelligence, cyber security and counter-terrorism.

When this man talks... I'd listen!

In my opinion, Cheney is and was as destructive to this country as a nuclear weapon. I sense pure evil in that man.

Only "met" you through this board but you pretty much sense evil in anyone who doesnt agree with you !

As for Richard Clarke...he can give his opinion and I will listen but that is HIS OPINION...I will listen.....but I think it is a slap in the face of every single american to say that ! That is my opinion !

I understand the thread....but Bush is NOT president.....but boy look around at what is happening....sort of a waste....I would love to hear you and others who support this president in all he does come on here and say WHY and where anyone else is in error...your opinions would be welcome and read...not the little cutsey stuff or the personal shots but an actual opinion on what about the President you love except for his words which mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING !

Yes....I mention Wright as do others...not just me and I mention all the crackpots that this President had DEEP AND MEANINGFUL relationsships with...as I said to you during the campaign...it speaks to the man..his idealogy and what he believes and in 7 short months he has more than exceeded what I thought and he is just getting warmed up. The Van Jones thing did not surprise me at all...there are others he appoints as czars that have very questionable backgrounds...that is why they are czars and why he has almost HALF of the appointments he should have made empty !

Read the article...if you want others from MSM who are beginning to wake up I will be glad to supply them. This is the most political and devious administration we have ever seen in this country and by a lot and done in a short time ! BY THE WAY, THE WRITER OF THE ARTICLE BROUGHT UP WRIGHT, NOT ME !!!

Chelsea...I admire your sticking to your guns in support of the Democratic party....but not your reasons because other than a hatred for Bush I have no idea what they are, HOWEVER.....EVERYTHING I predicted on here is coming true and faster than I thought.

Ok...will take the chill pill as you advised, but what is happening is just plain scary...and when I hear the President and his advisors saying that those who marched in good faith do not know what they are talkin about and summarily dismissed, it speaks to an arrogance that is just not good.

[Guest]

Just wanted to add about Richard Clarke and I have no idea what happened but I do not have time right now to research but seems that I read maybe in Time magazine about the time he came out with a book about all the differing versions of the stories he told...now, that does not entirely discredit him or what he said in total, but just trying to keep it in perspective is all.

You tend, CHELSEA, to cannonize those who agree with you :)

[Guest]

Only "met" you through this board but you pretty much sense evil in anyone who doesnt agree with you !

As for Richard Clarke...he can give his opinion and I will listen but that is HIS OPINION...I will listen.....but I think it is a slap in the face of every single american to say that ! That is my opinion !

I understand the thread....but Bush is NOT president.....but boy look around at what is happening....sort of a waste....I would love to hear you and others who support this president in all he does come on here and say WHY and where anyone else is in error...your opinions would be welcome and read...not the little cutsey stuff or the personal shots but an actual opinion on what about the President you love except for his words which mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING !


Yes....I mention Wright as do others...not just me and I mention all the crackpots that this President had DEEP AND MEANINGFUL relationsships with...as I said to you during the campaign...it speaks to the man..his idealogy and what he believes and in 7 short months he has more than exceeded what I thought and he is just getting warmed up. The Van Jones thing did not surprise me at all...there are others he appoints as czars that have very questionable backgrounds...that is why they are czars and why he has almost HALF of the appointments he should have made empty !

Read the article...if you want others from MSM who are beginning to wake up I will be glad to supply them. This is the most political and devious administration we have ever seen in this country and by a lot and done in a short time ! BY THE WAY, THE WRITER OF THE ARTICLE BROUGHT UP WRIGHT, NOT ME !!!

Chelsea...I admire your sticking to your guns in support of the Democratic party....but not your reasons because other than a hatred for Bush I have no idea what they are, HOWEVER.....EVERYTHING I predicted on here is coming true and faster than I thought.

Ok...will take the chill pill as you advised, but what is happening is just plain scary...and when I hear the President and his advisors saying that those who marched in good faith do not know what they are talkin about and summarily dismissed, it speaks to an arrogance that is just not good.


Bucco, you're just plain wrong. Anyone that knows me, knows I always look for the good in people and I don't know why you would personally attack me by saying I sense evil in EVERYONE that opposes me. That's not only strange, it's downright rude.

I don't think of George W. as evil, or Rumsfield, just lame and not really bright at all. I've only used the word "evil" with two people and that's Dick Cheney and Karl Rove. And I stand by my words.

And just to clarify, I don't post to support the Democratic party at all. In fact, truly believe that Nancy Pelosi and several others should be replaced. I do support President Obama. I believe he is one of the, if not the most, intelligent Presidents we've ever had in my lifetime. I think he has a very long range view on how to improve this country. It's hard to make that work in the "what have you done for me lately?" mentality of Washington, and the constant smear campaigns to undermine him.

It is my belief that since the day he took office, the Republicans have had to out for him and will not back him at any cost, even though this may be detrimental to our country. I think there is a lot of sour grapes spewed in both the Congress and the Senate. And, I also think there is a racial undertone. And let's get this clear before you go off again -- I'M NOT SAYING YOU!

I don't care how you try to sweep it under the carpet, President Obama inherited a multitude of messes. I can't remember a President that had to take on so many large issues at one time. Yes, I completely support him.

You always take the stance that you are bi-partisan Bucco, but it's not true. I'm sorry you don't like my "cutsie" answers. You've said this before. So let me tell you what I think of your posts. I think you sound like a frightened old lady that runs around saying "the sky is falling" every two minutes! How does that feel??? If you don't like my "cutsie" answers, don't read them. It's that simply! We're never doing to see eye to eye, so let's just call it a day. As I said... "Time will tell."

[Guest]

Chelsea, I trust it is not a surprise that I disagree with what you have said. As I pointed out earlier, what is happening is a result of our over comitting as a nation. We cannot afford what we have already committed to in Social Security, Civil Service Retirement programs (Not to mention the incredibly generous Congressional retirement programs) and Medicare/Medicaid. I pointed out three things that happened in the Bush administration that had contributed to hastening the problem. Two of these were beyond his control.

The Obama administration has done two things that are worsening the situation: (1) diverting over one-third of TARP funds from the original purpose of stabilizing our financial system to such things as GM & Chrysler bailouts. TARP was a truly bipartisan program in the closing days of the Bush administration and was supported by both parties as well as the incoming and outgoing president. The diversion of funds has left the capital and credit markets still too weak for our needs. (2) The ill advised 'stimulus package'. The purpose of this late night package that no one had the opportunity to read was, "to hold unemployment under 8%." The package not only failed in its goals, it has supported 'pork' projects that will add little or nothing to our nation's infrastructure. Had it done such things as upgrading our electric grid to a 'smart grid' or worked to converting our over the road trucks to natural gas instead of diesel, it would have been of value.

My concern today is that the current administration has three major efforts that will increase the budget deficit, put more people out of work and make our industry even more non-competitive in the global economy that we are today. These are The Health Reform Program, The Cap and Trade Bill and the Card Check legislation. I can go into the effects of each of these, but this post has already grown too long. Put together they will either reduce the US to the status of the Weimar economy in Germany or cause its dissolutions as futurists have predicted.

[Guest]

I don't know of anyone who questions Obamas intelligence. Just because he is bright does not mean that he is right or good. The people, do not question his smarts but the do question his actions and the actions of those that he surrounds himself with. I wish that he will be a great president and that we the people will all be happy. I believe that he is trying to take our country in the wrong direction, away from the constitution. His Czars, his affiliation with ACORN, his spending etc. I don't know. maybe I am wrong. I will try to remove a lot of politicians in 2010.

Why bother. Oboma supporters will always follow him. They will always have a different vision of America than I. They say he has been a great president so far. Just what has he done. I'm curious.

Yoda

[Guest]

Bucco, you're just plain wrong. Anyone that knows me, knows I always look for the good in people and I don't know why you would personally attack me by saying I sense evil in EVERYONE that opposes me. That's not only strange, it's downright rude.

I don't think of George W. as evil, or Rumsfield, just lame and not really bright at all. I've only used the word "evil" with two people and that's Dick Cheney and Karl Rove. And I stand by my words.

And just to clarify, I don't post to support the Democratic party at all. In fact, truly believe that Nancy Pelosi and several others should be replaced. I do support President Obama. I believe he is one of the, if not the most, intelligent Presidents we've ever had in my lifetime. I think he has a very long range view on how to improve this country. It's hard to make that work in the "what have you done for me lately?" mentality of Washington, and the constant smear campaigns to undermine him.

It is my belief that since the day he took office, the Republicans have had to out for him and will not back him at any cost, even though this may be detrimental to our country. I think there is a lot of sour grapes spewed in both the Congress and the Senate. And, I also think there is a racial undertone. And let's get this clear before you go off again -- I'M NOT SAYING YOU!

I don't care how you try to sweep it under the carpet, President Obama inherited a multitude of messes. I can't remember a President that had to take on so many large issues at one time. Yes, I completely support him.

You always take the stance that you are bi-partisan Bucco, but it's not true. I'm sorry you don't like my "cutsie" answers. You've said this before. So let me tell you what I think of your posts. I think you sound like a frightened old lady that runs around saying "the sky is falling" every two minutes! How does that feel??? If you don't like my "cutsie" answers, don't read them. It's that simply! We're never doing to see eye to eye, so let's just call it a day. As I said... "Time will tell."

"He says America's health-care system is going to wrack and ruin and requires root-and-branch reform—but that if you like your health care (as a large majority of Americans do), nothing will change for you. His slippery new formulation is that nothing in his plan will "require" anyone to change coverage. He used to say, "If you like your health-care plan, you'll be able to keep your health-care plan, period." He had to stop saying that because various disinterested analysts agree that his plan will give many employers incentives to stop providing coverage for employees."

"He deplores "scare tactics" but says that unless he gets his way, people will die. He praises temperate discourse but says many of his opponents are liars."

"He says the nation's economic health depends on controlling health-care costs. Yet so important is the trial bar in financing the Democratic Party, he says not a syllable in significant and specific support of tort reforms that could save hundreds of billions of dollars by reducing "defensive medicine" intended to protect not patients from illnesses but doctors from lawyers. He has said he will not add a dime to the deficit when bringing 47 million people into government-guaranteed health care. But Wednesday night, 17 million went missing: "There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage." Almost 10 million of the uninsured are not citizens, and most of them are illegal immigrants. Presumably the other 7 million could get insurance but chose not to"

For all you democrats out there, the above is from George Will and the editorial is titled...

The President is CPR for the GOP.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/215301

[Guest]

Then of course this from Ben Stein....

"Thank you, Barrack Obama

"As a 64-year-old, lifelong fiscal conservative and Republican since Nixon, may I humbly thank you? In the eight months or so since you took office, you have succeeded in reviving a party, the GOP, that many had left for dead.

You have named men to office so wildly irresponsible, so extreme in their positions, so vulgar in their means of expression, that they have made the Republican Party regain its of gleam of gentility and good graces.......

You have proposed a national health care plan so wildly extravagant, incomprehensibly complex and over the top that it makes President George W. Bush's budget gaffes seem like blips -- plus you have told fibs about it so immense that you have embarrassed yourself as a public figure: "

http://spectator.org/archives/2009/09/14/thank-you-barack-obama

[Guest]

Chelsea you said Obama is intelligent and knows how to improve our country.

What are the things you want or expect that Obama is doing or will do to improve our country?

[Guest]

I guess I'm swimming upstream here, because more of the people I know that used to post in political have decided it's just not worth it. Quite frankly, it's like banging my head against a wall.

First, Yoda, I can guarantee you the President Obama knows more about the intricacies of the Constitution than all of us and most of the Congress and Senate. After all... he lectured Constitutional Law at The University of Chicago. Second, he was a Community Organizer and a damned good one. Fact: You CANNOT be an effective community organizer and not ever deal with ACORN. It just doesn't happen. (P.S. Just because we don't agree doesn't mean I don't want to meet your pug! Haha! I love pugs, had one for 17 years and will probably get another.)

Bucco, you can post "links" until hell freezes over and I can pull up just as many links that will dispute all of yours. I don't chose to engage in the battle of the links. And for the love of God, please don't quote Ben Stein! OMG! He's most well known for his bit part in "Farris Bueller's Day Off." Yes, he was a quasi-speech writer for Nixon. Did I mention FOR NIXON! If you want to put comedians out there, I will counter with Jon Stewart, Colbert, and Bill Maher and trust me, they will tear Ben Stein to shreds!

Perhaps you'd like to read this Bucco:

http://www.hbo.com/billmaher/new_rules/index.html

Cashman, first let me say I don't think President Obama is infallible! But I do think that his background is always being called into question. When indeed, his background is "The American Dream." This is a man that came from a broken home, struggled for his education, graduated from Harvard, and was the first African-Amercian to become President of the Harvard Law Review. Went on to become a Community Organizer, a Senator, and now President of the United States, running one of the most successful campaigns in political history. He didn't have a daddy to buy his way into schools or into political positions. He did this all and I mean ALL on his own.

As for our country, I see of man of vision. Like I stated before, I think his plans are far-reaching and some will take years to blossom. Do you honestly think that a man that has accomplished so much for his age will suddenly deteriorate into some kind of babbling nonsensical idiot? He has taken us from the abyss of financial disaster. He is trying to pass Health Reform, that even the Republicans begrudgingly had to agree we need desperately. He is addressing the ever-increasing drop-out rate and lack of education in this country... and he has not one, but two wars going on! Quite frankly, I don't know how he sleeps at night with everything he has on his plate. I'm surprised he's not babbling down the halls like Nixon was. And I do understand his putting deadlines on things (quite frankly, anyone that was in the corporate world should understand this.) If you don't put some kind of deadlines up... nothing gets done! The Congress and Senate are no different than the Corporate executives that will take that extra long lunch hour or time off, if nothing is pressing them to action. Some our fearless leaders spend more time whining about not having enough time to read a bill, then actually reading the bill! I want to say, "Shut up, sit down and read!"

I'm sorry, but I personally have to discount the shrieking birthers, and the Tea Party was simply a Fox News controlled vehicle. Did you see some of the interviews with the people from "The Tea Party Express"? Comparing Obama to Hitler, this incessant yapping about socialism... this is all to whip of a fringe group of loonies! I'm furious that the media gives them as much air-time as they get! And to not even want their children to watch an address from The President of the United States!!!! How insane is that! He was talking about the benefits of staying in school and getting an education. How can ANYONE give credence to this kind of thinking. Many, many years ago, kids would actually lift their glasses of milk in a toast to President Eisenhower at lunch! I remember always watching Presidential Addresses in my grade school and high school. What has gone soooooooo wrong???

And like it or not... and quite frankly, I detest it... there is a racial undertone to some of this. I'm betting there are not many white southern men that want some black guy telling them what to do. That's putting it plainly and simply! We might not like to hear it, but it's there. President Obama will have to work 10 times as hard to win approval (if ever) with the right-wingnuts, than any white northerner would have to do. This is how I see it and many others do to.

Well, I might be in the minority on this board, but, I'm in the majority of the country. What will be, will be. I think he will get his Health Reform Bill passed because he's also intelligent enough to know when it's time to say "ENOUGH!" I think he proved that with his speech.

[Guest]

It appears that you Chelsea do not see what we Conservatives see in what Obama and his illegal gang of unelected leftists are up to.

I was sorry to see you raise the "race" issue so i must say good bye to any future discourse with you.

[Guest]

about the statement that went something like...so many have grown tired of banging their head against the wall and no longer post here...not an exact paraphrase but close enough for the purpose of comment.

During Bush' last two years and mostly during the election year the shoe was on the other foot. The mere mention of a name the opposition had in their sites....a subject was not a prerequisite....and often when there was one it was ignored.....and the tirade of bashing commenced. Consistently....every day without exception.

Just like this thread some chose to take things to a personal level....but that was usually a minority of the participants. And now that their man won the election there is this air of if one does not hail the POTUS...agree with the man...do not support what he is selling/promoting/et al.......the tenor of the opposition is oh my GOD what is wrong with these people or something akon to that.

What I see on this forum and many others I participate in and in "real" life (actually talking to people face to face) is an inordinate need by the supporters of Obama to not allow the same latitude of discourse they so frequently used prior to the election.

From the WH to the POTUS to the federal and state lawmakers and entertainers....way too much playing of the race card. It as usual has nothing to do with a given subject....but that doesn't seem to matter...it has worn thin in the eyes and ears of the majority of we the people. It adds no value and only generates heat (which seems to be the objective).

Not looking for a debate....just an observation.....as I saw it....see it and hear it.

No struggle no progress.

btk

[Guest]

I guess I'm swimming upstream here, because more of the people I know that used to post in political have decided it's just not worth it. Quite frankly, it's like banging my head against a wall.

First, Yoda, I can guarantee you the President Obama knows more about the intricacies of the Constitution than all of us and most of the Congress and Senate. After all... he lectured Constitutional Law at The University of Chicago. Second, he was a Community Organizer and a damned good one. Fact: You CANNOT be an effective community organizer and not ever deal with ACORN. It just doesn't happen. (P.S. Just because we don't agree doesn't mean I don't want to meet your pug! Haha! I love pugs, had one for 17 years and will probably get another.)

Bucco, you can post "links" until hell freezes over and I can pull up just as many links that will dispute all of yours. I don't chose to engage in the battle of the links. And for the love of God, please don't quote Ben Stein! OMG! He's most well known for his bit part in "Farris Bueller's Day Off." Yes, he was a quasi-speech writer for Nixon. Did I mention FOR NIXON! If you want to put comedians out there, I will counter with Jon Stewart, Colbert, and Bill Maher and trust me, they will tear Ben Stein to shreds!

Perhaps you'd like to read this Bucco:

http://www.hbo.com/billmaher/new_rules/index.html

Cashman, first let me say I don't think President Obama is infallible! But I do think that his background is always being called into question. When indeed, his background is "The American Dream." This is a man that came from a broken home, struggled for his education, graduated from Harvard, and was the first African-Amercian to become President of the Harvard Law Review. Went on to become a Community Organizer, a Senator, and now President of the United States, running one of the most successful campaigns in political history. He didn't have a daddy to buy his way into schools or into political positions. He did this all and I mean ALL on his own.

As for our country, I see of man of vision. Like I stated before, I think his plans are far-reaching and some will take years to blossom. Do you honestly think that a man that has accomplished so much for his age will suddenly deteriorate into some kind of babbling nonsensical idiot? He has taken us from the abyss of financial disaster. He is trying to pass Health Reform, that even the Republicans begrudgingly had to agree we need desperately. He is addressing the ever-increasing drop-out rate and lack of education in this country... and he has not one, but two wars going on! Quite frankly, I don't know how he sleeps at night with everything he has on his plate. I'm surprised he's not babbling down the halls like Nixon was. And I do understand his putting deadlines on things (quite frankly, anyone that was in the corporate world should understand this.) If you don't put some kind of deadlines up... nothing gets done! The Congress and Senate are no different than the Corporate executives that will take that extra long lunch hour or time off, if nothing is pressing them to action. Some our fearless leaders spend more time whining about not having enough time to read a bill, then actually reading the bill! I want to say, "Shut up, sit down and read!"

I'm sorry, but I personally have to discount the shrieking birthers, and the Tea Party was simply a Fox News controlled vehicle. Did you see some of the interviews with the people from "The Tea Party Express"? Comparing Obama to Hitler, this incessant yapping about socialism... this is all to whip of a fringe group of loonies! I'm furious that the media gives them as much air-time as they get! And to not even want their children to watch an address from The President of the United States!!!! How insane is that! He was talking about the benefits of staying in school and getting an education. How can ANYONE give credence to this kind of thinking. Many, many years ago, kids would actually lift their glasses of milk in a toast to President Eisenhower at lunch! I remember always watching Presidential Addresses in my grade school and high school. What has gone soooooooo wrong???

And like it or not... and quite frankly, I detest it... there is a racial undertone to some of this. I'm betting there are not many white southern men that want some black guy telling them what to do. That's putting it plainly and simply! We might not like to hear it, but it's there. President Obama will have to work 10 times as hard to win approval (if ever) with the right-wingnuts, than any white northerner would have to do. This is how I see it and many others do to.

Well, I might be in the minority on this board, but, I'm in the majority of the country. What will be, will be. I think he will get his Health Reform Bill passed because he's also intelligent enough to know when it's time to say "ENOUGH!" I think he proved that with his speech.

Wll, no more links then, and why in the world you bring out the race card repeatedly is beyond me...that is not only unfair...it is unfounded and racial in itself.

That race stuff makes it very difficult to have any discussion and since your confidence in a man who has already lied to you as a supporter with his transparency, his no pork, and the list goes on and on and yet you still support him and throw out race when he is criticized...well, the race thing is simply a stopper for me...I didnt like it during the campaign and I dislike it now and only his supporters ever mention it, which should make us all very wary !

If you think that everyone is crtiical not of his over spending, his misinformation, his radical appointments, and all of what has gone on in such a short time is because of his RACE....well, my sympathies to you !

If you disregard americans being upset and showing it...if you feel the lesson plan for the talk with students was appropriate (the ORIGINAL lesson plan) which by the way was the reason for the discourse and not talking to the students (although there was alot of grief when Bush 1 talked to them from the Democratic party)...if you think misleading the country about his health plan (which nobody has ever seen) is or has a "racial undertone" to it, then there would be no reason to find a link or not find a link....it will be dismissed as such as it was in the campaign.

I, for one, am sick and tired of saying there are racial overtones to my criticism of the President. It stinks and being called that is not taken lightly !

[Guest]

[QUOTE=chelsea24;225386]I guess I'm swimming upstream here, because more of the people I know that used to post in political have decided it's just not worth it. Quite frankly, it's like banging my head against a wall.

First, Yoda, I can guarantee you the President Obama knows more about the intricacies of the Constitution than all of us and most of the Congress and Senate. After all... he lectured Constitutional Law at The University of Chicago. Second, he was a Community Organizer and a damned good one. Fact: You CANNOT be an effective community organizer and not ever deal with ACORN. It just doesn't happen. (P.S. Just because we don't agree doesn't mean I don't want to meet your pug! Haha! I love pugs, had one for 17 years and will probably get another.)

**********
I do not doubt that Obama knows the constitution better than I. Will he protect and defend the constitution is the question at hand. ACORN and SEIU surround the POTUS. Be afraid.

Yoda

[Guest]

Cashman, I'm sorry you feel that way. Racism is America's dirty little secret and should be debated, not dismissed.

Bucco, I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you saying I "REPEATEDLY" bring up race is competely wrong. I don't even remember bringing it up before, but I might have. I'm sure you'll dig it out if it's there. And I specifically said "I'm NOT talking about you"! Do you skim read???

And noooooooo! I don't think all the objections to President Obama's policies and appointments have to do with race! But, I do believe, that for some, this is an issue. Like it or not... it's there. And BTW, don't think for a minute I don't realize that racism works both ways. I'm a realist! Always have been.

Are any of you realists? Can any of you admit that a lot of this Townhall, Tea Party, Birther stuff is over the top? Just wondering...

Yoda, you sound like a very sweet man, but I'm not afraid of President Obama.

[Guest]

Cashman, I'm sorry you feel that way. Racism is America's dirty little secret and should be debated, not dismissed.

Bucco, I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you saying I "REPEATEDLY" bring up race is competely wrong. I don't even remember bringing it up before, but I might have. I'm sure you'll dig it out if it's there. And I specifically said "I'm NOT talking about you"! Do you skim read???

And noooooooo! I don't think all the objections to President Obama's policies and appointments has to do with race! But, I do believe, that for some, this is an issue. Like it or not... it's there. And BTW, don't think for a minute I don't realize that racism works both ways. I'm a realist! Always have been.

Are any of you realists? Can any of you admit that a lot of this Townhall, Tea Party, Birther stuff is over the top? Just wondering...

Yoda, you sound like a very sweet man, but I'm not afraid of President Obama.

Birther stuff...yeah, I think it is over the top !

Having town halls is NOT over the top and you are mistaking REAL people with REAL fear with some political movement,

Tea Parties.....listen this is REAL.....if you think taxes are ONLY going to be assessed on the "rich", you are living with your head in the sand. They are alreading hinting about taxes on lower than 250,000 just last week. And if you dont think the President's health bill does not come with added "taxes" you better read the bill (We assume that he has been talking about the Baucus bill, but we dont know that for sure as you know !

For what is worth...I was scared before and more scared now as it becomes a reality !

Oh, and you DID call me a racist at least twice during the campaign and alluded to it a few times, but not going to go back and search..not worth it...you feel the way you feel.

In my mind there has been no race card played ever against this President !!

[Guest]

Birther stuff...yeah, I think it is over the top !

Having town halls is NOT over the top and you are mistaking REAL people with REAL fear with some political movement,

Tea Parties.....listen this is REAL.....if you think taxes are ONLY going to be assessed on the "rich", you are living with your head in the sand. They are alreading hinting about taxes on lower than 250,000 just last week. And if you dont think the President's health bill does not come with added "taxes" you better read the bill (We assume that he has been talking about the Baucus bill, but we dont know that for sure as you know !

For what is worth...I was scared before and more scared now as it becomes a reality !

Oh, and you DID call me a racist at least twice during the campaign and alluded to it a few times, but not going to go back and search..not worth it...you feel the way you feel.

In my mind there has been no race card played ever against this President !!

OK Bucco, If I ever did call YOU in particular a racist, I sincerely apologize. But, it is out there, none the less.

I think I'll sign off on the thread because it is now becoming longer then George W. Bush's actual legacy! :laugh:

[Guest]

I guess I'm swimming upstream here, because more of the people I know that used to post in political have decided it's just not worth it. Quite frankly, it's like banging my head against a wall.

First, Yoda, I can guarantee you the President Obama knows more about the intricacies of the Constitution than all of us and most of the Congress and Senate. After all... he lectured Constitutional Law at The University of Chicago. Second, he was a Community Organizer and a damned good one. Fact: You CANNOT be an effective community organizer and not ever deal with ACORN. It just doesn't happen. (P.S. Just because we don't agree doesn't mean I don't want to meet your pug! Haha! I love pugs, had one for 17 years and will probably get another.)

Bucco, you can post "links" until hell freezes over and I can pull up just as many links that will dispute all of yours. I don't chose to engage in the battle of the links. And for the love of God, please don't quote Ben Stein! OMG! He's most well known for his bit part in "Farris Bueller's Day Off." Yes, he was a quasi-speech writer for Nixon. Did I mention FOR NIXON! If you want to put comedians out there, I will counter with Jon Stewart, Colbert, and Bill Maher and trust me, they will tear Ben Stein to shreds!

Perhaps you'd like to read this Bucco:

http://www.hbo.com/billmaher/new_rules/index.html

Cashman, first let me say I don't think President Obama is infallible! But I do think that his background is always being called into question. When indeed, his background is "The American Dream." This is a man that came from a broken home, struggled for his education, graduated from Harvard, and was the first African-Amercian to become President of the Harvard Law Review. Went on to become a Community Organizer, a Senator, and now President of the United States, running one of the most successful campaigns in political history. He didn't have a daddy to buy his way into schools or into political positions. He did this all and I mean ALL on his own.

As for our country, I see of man of vision. Like I stated before, I think his plans are far-reaching and some will take years to blossom. Do you honestly think that a man that has accomplished so much for his age will suddenly deteriorate into some kind of babbling nonsensical idiot? He has taken us from the abyss of financial disaster. He is trying to pass Health Reform, that even the Republicans begrudgingly had to agree we need desperately. He is addressing the ever-increasing drop-out rate and lack of education in this country... and he has not one, but two wars going on! Quite frankly, I don't know how he sleeps at night with everything he has on his plate. I'm surprised he's not babbling down the halls like Nixon was. And I do understand his putting deadlines on things (quite frankly, anyone that was in the corporate world should understand this.) If you don't put some kind of deadlines up... nothing gets done! The Congress and Senate are no different than the Corporate executives that will take that extra long lunch hour or time off, if nothing is pressing them to action. Some our fearless leaders spend more time whining about not having enough time to read a bill, then actually reading the bill! I want to say, "Shut up, sit down and read!"

I'm sorry, but I personally have to discount the shrieking birthers, and the Tea Party was simply a Fox News controlled vehicle. Did you see some of the interviews with the people from "The Tea Party Express"? Comparing Obama to Hitler, this incessant yapping about socialism... this is all to whip of a fringe group of loonies! I'm furious that the media gives them as much air-time as they get! And to not even want their children to watch an address from The President of the United States!!!! How insane is that! He was talking about the benefits of staying in school and getting an education. How can ANYONE give credence to this kind of thinking. Many, many years ago, kids would actually lift their glasses of milk in a toast to President Eisenhower at lunch! I remember always watching Presidential Addresses in my grade school and high school. What has gone soooooooo wrong???

And like it or not... and quite frankly, I detest it... there is a racial undertone to some of this. I'm betting there are not many white southern men that want some black guy telling them what to do. That's putting it plainly and simply! We might not like to hear it, but it's there. President Obama will have to work 10 times as hard to win approval (if ever) with the right-wingnuts, than any white northerner would have to do. This is how I see it and many others do to.

Well, I might be in the minority on this board, but, I'm in the majority of the country. What will be, will be. I think he will get his Health Reform Bill passed because he's also intelligent enough to know when it's time to say "ENOUGH!" I think he proved that with his speech.


Chelsea- the best post I've seen in months here! Just remember, The Villages is not representative of the rest of the country, or even Florida. It's demographics point to the majority being overwhelmingly out-of-touch with the majority of Americans.

Last time I looked, we were a Democratic Republic. The Majority of the Villages may be right-wing, but they are a minority of the electorate. Keep the faith.

[Guest]

Chelsea- the best post I've seen in months here! Just remember, The Villages is not representative of the rest of the country, or even Florida. It's demographics point to the majority being overwhelmingly out-of-touch with the majority of Americans.

Last time I looked, we were a Democratic Republic. The Majority of the Villages may be right-wing, but they are a minority of the electorate. Keep the faith.

I think that you will find that the political, social and moral values of the majority of villagers reflect those of the majority of Americans. They also can make mistakes. They also can correct their errors. I doubt if many are blind following Koolaid drinkers. Some are for sure but not many.

Yoda

[Guest]

I know I'm not the sharpest knife in the block, but I call it like I see it. What I am seeing is that anything that was said about Bush, and still is, had very little to do with his policies and everything to do with bashing the man. No, he definitely was not articulate, but that sure didn't make him wrong. It sure made him a great target, though.

Please tell me why that was ok and why you are so offended now with comments regarding primarily Obama's policies. He says one thing and then turns around and does just the opposite. Why must he constantly put our country down while giving the American people exactly zero credit except for those who agree with him? Bush always praised America and the American people. He may not have done everything right (nor will anyone else), but he didn't put us down.

So far, I have only seen the race card come out when posters start running out of anything else with which to counter points made.

Like I said, I don't post much, but that doesn't mean that I have gone away.

[Guest]

I think I'll sign off on the thread because it is now becoming longer then George W. Bush's actual legacy! :laugh:

Chels....this may be a strategic time for you to head back to the roadhouse. I saw Boomer's Cadillac parked in the lot next to a pick up truck with a Palin for Prez bumper sticker. An empty shotgun rack raised more questions than answers about the F-150. Two Harley's. a Goldwing and a Prius peacefully coexisted on the side of the rustic building. Through the eerie moonlit night.....flickering candles inside illuminated shadowy silhouettes moving furtively. Something sinister is brewing.........

or....head for Margaritaville.

dillywho - don't underestimate yourself.....your as sharp as any saber in the forum. Keep posting.

[Guest]

I think that you will find that the political, social and moral values of the majority of villagers reflect those of the majority of Americans. They also can make mistakes. They also can correct their errors. I doubt if many are blind following Koolaid drinkers. Some are for sure but not many.

Yoda

ditto

[Guest]

There is a good possibility that if Bush had not protected us the way he did many of us would not be here today.

If i am correct in this assumption Bush will end up with a very good legacy.

Some legacy, tell that to the 2,900 9/11 victims who died because of his incompetence and the 4,000 plus troops who died after "Mission Accomplished" and the huge deficit he left behind.

[Guest]

Some legacy, tell that to the 2,900 9/11 victims who died because of his incompetence and the 4,000 plus troops who died after "Mission Accomplished" and the huge deficit he left behind.

This is getting better and better. Let's see now, Bush is responsible for the deaths on 9/11 because....he wasn't psychic, I guess. It is like blaming Clinton for the Cole bombing. And the soldiers who died during the war on terrorism, well it pales compared to the 350,000 US soldiers who died in WWII. The question is what is a good war? That we can debate. And the deficit; Bush is a piker compared to the deficit the current administration is running up, even before the cost of "health care reform".

I think the Dems are still mad that he kept Gore and Kerry out of the White House in very close elections. This is, of course, his greatest accomplishment. You are right, comments like that are unfair, but it makes you feel good, no?

[Guest]

This is getting better and better. Let's see now, Bush is responsible for the deaths on 9/11 because....he wasn't psychic, I guess. It is like blaming Clinton for the Cole bombing. And the soldiers who died during the war on terrorism, well it pales compared to the 350,000 US soldiers who died in WWII. The question is what is a good war? That we can debate. And the deficit; Bush is a piker compared to the deficit the current administration is running up, even before the cost of "health care reform".

I think the Dems are still mad that he kept Gore and Kerry out of the White House in very close elections. This is, of course, his greatest accomplishment. You are right, comments like that are unfair, but it makes you feel good, no?


Your last comment....

"I think the Dems are still mad that he kept Gore and Kerry out of the White House in very close elections."

in my opinion is the beginning of the nasty nasty politics we see today. That does not mean that there was not nasty stuff going on before that, but those elections so angered the left that Soros and the money went to work BIG TIME and if you read about some of the organizations and the money trails the nasty nasty stuff started then !