"Thursday's annual Census Bureau report on income, poverty and access to health care-the Bureau's principal report card on the well-being of average Americans-closes the books on the economic record of George W. Bush.

It's not a record many Republicans are likely to point to with pride."

http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009...ush_legacy.php

being focused upon. For all the comparison's presented one would have to see the last 5, 10, 15, 20 (pick a number) years. Then one could look at any slice and get a good trend.

A President's legacy isn't based on the census "trends". It may be relavent information as part of the legacy, but not the legacy. In my humble opinion.

Using the census basis then we already know the next president after Obama will go down in history for having bankrupt Medicare and perhaps social security happen on their watch when the seeds have been germinating for some time....and the current administration is adding fertilizer quicker than money can be printed. He/she would also have the highest deficit in history inheriting the bail out, health care and cap and tax fall out being sown currently.

Events that occur during one's term in the WH are not just the result of the incumbent.

Statistics are what they are and will be what they will be depending upon the objective(s) of the author(s).

btk

Originally Posted by KayakerNC

"Thursday's annual Census Bureau report on income, poverty and access to health care-the Bureau's principal report card on the well-being of average Americans-closes the books on the economic record of George W. Bush.

It's not a record many Republicans are likely to point to with pride."

http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009...ush_legacy.php

Are you saying that Obama will stop blaming Bush and start taking responsibility like a big boy?

I only hope that everyone looks back on the Obama presidency as a booming success.

Yoda

There is a good possibility that if Bush had not protected us the way he did many of us would not be here today.

If i am correct in this assumption Bush will end up with a very good legacy.

Originally Posted by cashman

There is a good possibility that if Bush had not protected us the way he did many of us would not be here today.

If i am correct in this assumption Bush will end up with a very good legacy.

Don't hold your breath.

Originally Posted by cashman

There is a good possibility that if Bush had not protected us the way he did many of us would not be here today.

If i am correct in this assumption Bush will end up with a very good legacy.

I'm sorry, but I still don't get this "Bush protecting us" thing. Things that had to be done... should have been done, before 9/11. "Not being attacked" and "Protecting us" are two completely different things. I will give him some credit, but not much.

And the interesting thing is that everyone and I mean EVERYONE back Bush, immediately after 9/11. But would the same happen for Obama??? NO! Richard Clark was asked that the other night and his reply was "I think Dick Cheney already answered that. He said if we were attacked now it would be Obama's fault for not protecting us enough." Cheney is such a complete and utter arse, he should just melt into the background and go away! Also, Richard Clark said we are "somewhat" safer, but still not much. He said the the taking off of the shoes, no liquids, etc. was more show than anything else. His words, not mine.

I also think that raising the color level on terrorist attacks during election time was just another Bush/Rove "cheap trick" ala Tom Ridge. His words, not mine. And what the heck was that stupid color code all about anyway! It's like Grr-Animals for Terrorists. How ridiculous! I can see Bin Laden sitting back saying "oh, let's see if we can raise them to orange, I'll send out another tape!" Geesh!

I think that George W. Bush's legacy will be one of President Buffoon! And well deserved. I also think the people that still defend him, are really just defending their vote. Just my opinion.

Now onto passing Health Care Reform!!! Yeah!

What we are seeing is not a Bush legacy and has little to nothing to do with Obama, Bush, Cheney, etc. What we are seeing is a series of Ponzi schemes coming to an end. These Ponzi schemes started in the thirties with Social Security. The voters then voted themselves a retirement that would be paid for by their children; later their children would pay for their children’s retirements and so on and so forth. Today social security is going broke and we are projected that not too far in the future we will have only two workers for each retired person.

The second great Ponzi scheme was retirement plans for government employees. This started after WWII. These retirement programs have never been funded and have continued to be paid out of general revenues. Today, we have a 37 Trillion dollar unfunded liability that we are trying to leave to the next generation.

The third great Ponzi scheme was Medicare, started in the 1960's. Again a generation decided to fund its expenses, in this case medical, by taxing its children. The children could then tax their children, and so on. I made a somewhat more expanded post on the Medicare problem, but the long and short of it is that Medicare paid out more in 2009 than it took in from Medicare taxes and the trust fund. This situation continues to get worse. By 2014, Medicare payouts will be double Medicare revenues. The shortfall, approximately 1 Trillion dollars per year will be added to the already projected deficit of 9 trillion plus. It will simply get worse after that.

Similar Ponzi schemes have been bringing down corporations (General Motors for example) and state and local governments. This nations most prosperous state, California, has an economy that is slightly more than 20% of the US economy and larger than all but a few countries. As we all know, California is on the brink of declaring bankruptcy. Cities, particularly in California have started to declare bankruptcy.

There is no doubt that our decline has been hastened by three events: (1) the stock market crash near the end of the Clinton administration that not only wiped out a great deal of personal wealth, but put and end to the budget surpluses - no capital gains, no payments to the Treasury; (2) The attacks of 9/11. This not only threw the economy into a tailspin, it required significantly increase government expenditures for security; (3) the costs for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. These while they may or may not have been necessary - aggravated the problem, it did not and could not undo the sweeping deficits that will be caused by these Ponzi schemes. To put it perspective, the Iraq war will add less to the deficit than will be added by Medicare each and every year starting with 2013 and going forward.

Whether or not, the US, as a nation, can undo the damage being caused by these Ponzi schemes is yet to be determined. To date, no leader has come forward dealing with these honestly. To his credit, George Bush, tried for a small reform in Social Security that would have permitted something, admittedly not much, to be left over for our grandchildren. He was loudly booed in his address to Congress for proposing such a thing. None of the reforms being proposed today from either side of the aisle admit to and face these problems.

Like any other Ponzi scheme, our government's programs have been designed to let the 'early' investors profit at the expense of the follow-on investors. In this case, it was much longer range - those of us who comprised the 'greatest generation' and those born before 1945 have been the beneficiaries of these schemes. The money pot has run dry and our children and grandchildren will suffer as a result.

BBQMAN: Excellent post. I don't think that gold is going for over $1000 per ounce for no reason. But if China and a few other countries were to cash in , we are in big doo doo.

chatter/splatter of the pre election/2008 era return to the political forum.

btk

Originally Posted by Yoda

Are you saying that Obama will stop blaming Bush and start taking responsibility like a big boy?

I only hope that everyone looks back on the Obama presidency as a booming success.
Yoda

Like the Bush administration taking responsibility for 9/11....or are they still blaming Clinton?

Originally Posted by KayakerNC

Like the Bush administration taking responsibility for 9/11....or are they still blaming Clinton?

It is totally incredible to me that with what is happening right now in our country that there would be a discussion of Bush or Clinton or anyone else ever in history !!!! Simply amazing !!!

You can say what you want about George Bush and I surely have said a number of them, but to turn a blind eye to what is happening RIGHT NOW is just hard to believe. You party hacks better wake up and SOON !

I am tired of both parties lying to us....and am concerned about NOW....I was critical of Bush and am critical of the current president but what is happening right now is beyond anyone's imagination and we talk about Bush...that is just simply not something I can fathom.

If the best you can do in discussing the issues being presented to us now...if your only basis for support of this administration is to criticize the last president then you are NOT PAYING ATTENTION AT ALL....

And someone said that if attacked that americans would not support the President because it is Obama...or something to that effect...if I read it correctly, and if not I apologize, but if I did....stick it in your ear...that is the kind of anti america talk that is killing us. We always come together when the country is under attack and to insinuate that I would not because of my feelings about the President is insulting AT BEST !

I am sick and tired of being either called something or something insinuated when I criticize this president....slowly but surely people are coming back to their senses after being beaten to death with that concept for a year or more. As wrong as it was for those few who called those opposed to Bush "anti american" it is simply just as wrong to have any criticism of this man Obama potrayed as something wrong...I am really tired of it.

I am tired of hearing what I heard about those who marched on Washington....the President made a remark about how the folks where he spoke as they marched as more friendly...and Axlerod...he said those millions who marched are just plain wrong...what a great attitude !


"Remember Barack Obama's famous speech on race, back in March of 2008? Obama had spent 20 years listening to the sermons of Jeremiah Wright, full of venomous anti-Americanism and attacks on "white America." Yet when the reverend's rants were revealed to the public, Obama tried to convince us that he just happened to be missing from the pews on any well-documented Sunday, and that the Jeremiah Wright we saw and heard was not the Jeremiah Wright he knew.

It was a giant, implausible lie. Yet the speech was smoothly delivered and well-turned, perfectly balanced to seem to empathize both with the grievances of blacks and with the concerns of whites. So most people seemed to believe it.

This is what Obama's supposed gift for rhetoric amounts to: the ability to tell a smoothly polished bald-faced lie."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...ity_98294.html

Originally Posted by Bucco

It is totally incredible to me that with what is happening right now in our country that there would be a discussion of Bush or Clinton or anyone else ever in history !!!! Simply amazing !!!

You can say what you want about George Bush and I surely have said a number of them, but to turn a blind eye to what is happening RIGHT NOW is just hard to believe. You party hacks better wake up and SOON !

I am tired of both parties lying to us....and am concerned about NOW....I was critical of Bush and am critical of the current president but what is happening right now is beyond anyone's imagination and we talk about Bush...that is just simply not something I can fathom.

If the best you can do in discussing the issues being presented to us now...if your only basis for support of this administration is to criticize the last president then you are NOT PAYING ATTENTION AT ALL....

And someone said that if attacked that americans would not support the President because it is Obama...or something to that effect...if I read it correctly, and if not I apologize, but if I did....stick it in your ear...that is the kind of anti america talk that is killing us. We always come together when the country is under attack and to insinuate that I would not because of my feelings about the President is insulting AT BEST !

I am sick and tired of being either called something or something insinuated when I criticize this president....slowly but surely people are coming back to their senses after being beaten to death with that concept for a year or more. As wrong as it was for those few who called those opposed to Bush "anti american" it is simply just as wrong to have any criticism of this man Obama potrayed as something wrong...I am really tired of it.

I am tired of hearing what I heard about those who marched on Washington....the President made a remark about how the folks where he spoke as they marched as more friendly...and Axlerod...he said those millions who marched are just plain wrong...what a great attitude !


"Remember Barack Obama's famous speech on race, back in March of 2008? Obama had spent 20 years listening to the sermons of Jeremiah Wright, full of venomous anti-Americanism and attacks on "white America." Yet when the reverend's rants were revealed to the public, Obama tried to convince us that he just happened to be missing from the pews on any well-documented Sunday, and that the Jeremiah Wright we saw and heard was not the Jeremiah Wright he knew.

It was a giant, implausible lie. Yet the speech was smoothly delivered and well-turned, perfectly balanced to seem to empathize both with the grievances of blacks and with the concerns of whites. So most people seemed to believe it.

This is what Obama's supposed gift for rhetoric amounts to: the ability to tell a smoothly polished bald-faced lie."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...ity_98294.html

Bucco, take a chill pill! Check out the title of the thread to see why people just might be commenting on Bush.

And for someone that doesn't want any "history" brought up, you seem to have NOOOOOOOOOO problem with bringing up Rev. Wright over and over and over again.

Also, the man that commented on what Cheney said about no one will back Obama, should we be attacked, was not just some talking head or drive-by commentator... It was Richard Clark! Perhaps you'd like to check out his credentials.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_A._Clarke

Richard Alan Clarke[1] (born October 1951) was a U.S. government employee for 30 years, 1973–2003. He worked for the State Department during the presidency of Ronald Reagan.[2] Following the presidency of George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton promoted Clarke to be the chief counter-terrorism adviser on the U.S. National Security Council. Under George W. Bush, Clarke no longer had cabinet-level access, but continued in the same position until his retirement in January 2003, serving as a member of the Senior Executive Service, specializing in intelligence, cyber security and counter-terrorism.

When this man talks... I'd listen!

In my opinion, Cheney is and was as destructive to this country as a nuclear weapon. I sense pure evil in that man.

Originally Posted by chelsea24

Bucco, take a chill pill! Check out the title of the thread to see why people just might be commenting on Bush.

And for someone that doesn't want any "history" brought up, you seem to have NOOOOOOOOOO problem with bringing up Rev. Wright over and over and over again.

Also, the man that commented on what Cheney said about no one will back Obama, should we be attacked, was not just some talking head or drive-by commentator... It was Richard Clark! Perhaps you'd like to check out his credentials.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_A._Clarke

Richard Alan Clarke[1] (born October 1951) was a U.S. government employee for 30 years, 1973–2003. He worked for the State Department during the presidency of Ronald Reagan.[2] Following the presidency of George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton promoted Clarke to be the chief counter-terrorism adviser on the U.S. National Security Council. Under George W. Bush, Clarke no longer had cabinet-level access, but continued in the same position until his retirement in January 2003, serving as a member of the Senior Executive Service, specializing in intelligence, cyber security and counter-terrorism.

When this man talks... I'd listen!

In my opinion, Cheney is and was as destructive to this country as a nuclear weapon. I sense pure evil in that man.

Only "met" you through this board but you pretty much sense evil in anyone who doesnt agree with you !

As for Richard Clarke...he can give his opinion and I will listen but that is HIS OPINION...I will listen.....but I think it is a slap in the face of every single american to say that ! That is my opinion !

I understand the thread....but Bush is NOT president.....but boy look around at what is happening....sort of a waste....I would love to hear you and others who support this president in all he does come on here and say WHY and where anyone else is in error...your opinions would be welcome and read...not the little cutsey stuff or the personal shots but an actual opinion on what about the President you love except for his words which mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING !

Yes....I mention Wright as do others...not just me and I mention all the crackpots that this President had DEEP AND MEANINGFUL relationsships with...as I said to you during the campaign...it speaks to the man..his idealogy and what he believes and in 7 short months he has more than exceeded what I thought and he is just getting warmed up. The Van Jones thing did not surprise me at all...there are others he appoints as czars that have very questionable backgrounds...that is why they are czars and why he has almost HALF of the appointments he should have made empty !

Read the article...if you want others from MSM who are beginning to wake up I will be glad to supply them. This is the most political and devious administration we have ever seen in this country and by a lot and done in a short time ! BY THE WAY, THE WRITER OF THE ARTICLE BROUGHT UP WRIGHT, NOT ME !!!

Chelsea...I admire your sticking to your guns in support of the Democratic party....but not your reasons because other than a hatred for Bush I have no idea what they are, HOWEVER.....EVERYTHING I predicted on here is coming true and faster than I thought.

Ok...will take the chill pill as you advised, but what is happening is just plain scary...and when I hear the President and his advisors saying that those who marched in good faith do not know what they are talkin about and summarily dismissed, it speaks to an arrogance that is just not good.

Just wanted to add about Richard Clarke and I have no idea what happened but I do not have time right now to research but seems that I read maybe in Time magazine about the time he came out with a book about all the differing versions of the stories he told...now, that does not entirely discredit him or what he said in total, but just trying to keep it in perspective is all.

You tend, CHELSEA, to cannonize those who agree with you

Originally Posted by Bucco

Only "met" you through this board but you pretty much sense evil in anyone who doesnt agree with you !

As for Richard Clarke...he can give his opinion and I will listen but that is HIS OPINION...I will listen.....but I think it is a slap in the face of every single american to say that ! That is my opinion !

I understand the thread....but Bush is NOT president.....but boy look around at what is happening....sort of a waste....I would love to hear you and others who support this president in all he does come on here and say WHY and where anyone else is in error...your opinions would be welcome and read...not the little cutsey stuff or the personal shots but an actual opinion on what about the President you love except for his words which mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING !


Yes....I mention Wright as do others...not just me and I mention all the crackpots that this President had DEEP AND MEANINGFUL relationsships with...as I said to you during the campaign...it speaks to the man..his idealogy and what he believes and in 7 short months he has more than exceeded what I thought and he is just getting warmed up. The Van Jones thing did not surprise me at all...there are others he appoints as czars that have very questionable backgrounds...that is why they are czars and why he has almost HALF of the appointments he should have made empty !

Read the article...if you want others from MSM who are beginning to wake up I will be glad to supply them. This is the most political and devious administration we have ever seen in this country and by a lot and done in a short time ! BY THE WAY, THE WRITER OF THE ARTICLE BROUGHT UP WRIGHT, NOT ME !!!

Chelsea...I admire your sticking to your guns in support of the Democratic party....but not your reasons because other than a hatred for Bush I have no idea what they are, HOWEVER.....EVERYTHING I predicted on here is coming true and faster than I thought.

Ok...will take the chill pill as you advised, but what is happening is just plain scary...and when I hear the President and his advisors saying that those who marched in good faith do not know what they are talkin about and summarily dismissed, it speaks to an arrogance that is just not good.

Bucco, you're just plain wrong. Anyone that knows me, knows I always look for the good in people and I don't know why you would personally attack me by saying I sense evil in EVERYONE that opposes me. That's not only strange, it's downright rude.

I don't think of George W. as evil, or Rumsfield, just lame and not really bright at all. I've only used the word "evil" with two people and that's Dick Cheney and Karl Rove. And I stand by my words.

And just to clarify, I don't post to support the Democratic party at all. In fact, truly believe that Nancy Pelosi and several others should be replaced. I do support President Obama. I believe he is one of the, if not the most, intelligent Presidents we've ever had in my lifetime. I think he has a very long range view on how to improve this country. It's hard to make that work in the "what have you done for me lately?" mentality of Washington, and the constant smear campaigns to undermine him.

It is my belief that since the day he took office, the Republicans have had to out for him and will not back him at any cost, even though this may be detrimental to our country. I think there is a lot of sour grapes spewed in both the Congress and the Senate. And, I also think there is a racial undertone. And let's get this clear before you go off again -- I'M NOT SAYING YOU!

I don't care how you try to sweep it under the carpet, President Obama inherited a multitude of messes. I can't remember a President that had to take on so many large issues at one time. Yes, I completely support him.

You always take the stance that you are bi-partisan Bucco, but it's not true. I'm sorry you don't like my "cutsie" answers. You've said this before. So let me tell you what I think of your posts. I think you sound like a frightened old lady that runs around saying "the sky is falling" every two minutes! How does that feel??? If you don't like my "cutsie" answers, don't read them. It's that simply! We're never doing to see eye to eye, so let's just call it a day. As I said... "Time will tell."