Education System Is a Waste of Time and Money

[Bog99]

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Education System Is a Waste of Time and Money


The Case against Education: Why the Education System Is a Waste of Time and Money: Bryan Caplan: 9780691174655: Amazon.com: Books (https://www.amazon.com/Case-against-Education-System-Waste/dp/0691174652/ref=as_sl_pc_qf_sp_asin_til?tag=bryacaplwebp-20&linkCode=w00&linkId=2a0c58e873ed68d8abd86c1449dd0968&creativeASIN=0691174652/marginalrevol-20)



Despite being immensely popular--and immensely lucrative―education is grossly overrated. In this explosive book, Bryan Caplan argues that the primary function of education is not to enhance students' skill but to certify their intelligence, work ethic, and conformity―in other words, to signal the qualities of a good employee. Learn why students hunt for easy As and casually forget most of what they learn after the final exam, why decades of growing access to education have not resulted in better jobs for the average worker but instead in runaway credential inflation, how employers reward workers for costly schooling they rarely if ever use, and why cutting education spending is the best remedy.

Caplan draws on the latest social science to show how the labor market values grades over knowledge, and why the more education your rivals have, the more you need to impress employers. He explains why graduation is our society's top conformity signal, and why even the most useless degrees can certify employability. He advocates two major policy responses. The first is educational austerity. Government needs to sharply cut education funding to curb this wasteful rat race. The second is more vocational education, because practical skills are more socially valuable than teaching students how to outshine their peers.

Romantic notions about education being "good for the soul" must yield to careful research and common sense―The Case against Education points the way.





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[Topspinmo]

Public edication and college is tools for teachers, grants and studies. Education it secondary with lots of useless degrees for money sucking purposes. They pollute young minds with their political agenda for union benefits for teachers. Colleges suck money out of government by neptunium good old boy systems for grants, studies, and useless research. at the end of the day it's about MONEY, VOTES, and control. Been in practice for 50 years at least and now it's paying off big time. Basically a big lie, most would get more out of trade school, at least they would have skill.

[Kenswing]

Education is a good thing. Unfortunately our schools have turned into Liberal indoctrination centers.

[billethkid]

Education is a good thing. Unfortunately our schools have turned into Liberal indoctrination centers.

Where there are no failures.....everybody wins and nobody loses....where the neutering of excelling and over achievers are made to be on the same level as the care less dregs.

[Wiotte]

High Schools need to bring back shop and trade classes for all students and technical degrees for those willing to extend their education rather than getting a useless liberal arts degree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bog99]

Public edication and college is tools for teachers, grants and studies. Education it secondary with lots of useless degrees for money sucking purposes. They pollute young minds with their political agenda for union benefits for teachers. Colleges suck money out of government by neptunium good old boy systems for grants, studies, and useless research. at the end of the day it's about MONEY, VOTES, and control. Been in practice for 50 years at least and now it's paying off big time. Basically a big lie, most would get more out of trade school, at least they would have skill.

Education is a good thing. Unfortunately our schools have turned into Liberal indoctrination centers.

Where there are no failures.....everybody wins and nobody loses....where the neutering of excelling and over achievers are made to be on the same level as the care less dregs.

High Schools need to bring back shop and trade classes for all students and technical degrees for those willing to extend their education rather than getting a useless liberal arts degree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-political-talk-88/if-you-want-do-something-about-femo-fascism-besides-complain-about-247628/



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[Bog99]

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https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-political-talk-88/government-education-aids-virus-femo-fascism-248831/



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[Abby10]

High Schools need to bring back shop and trade classes for all students and technical degrees for those willing to extend their education rather than getting a useless liberal arts degree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So true......or at least create some kind of avenue of exposure for those students who would like to explore that route. In the area where I currently live, students who wish to do part of their high school education at the local trade school are permitted to do so. Unfortunately, not all areas have access to this.

I've talked to several young people about trade school vs college and encouraged them to go that route if they have a desire to do so. Here's my thoughts on it - if you go and learn a trade and still want to go on to college after that, at least you now have a way to make some decent money while going to college. You're also a little older and maybe a little more responsible by then. So many young people blow off those years at college by partying, etc. I don't see much sense in going these days unless you have a specific career path such as pursuing a professional degree of some sort. Otherwise, too much money, too much temptation.

[mellincf]

From most of the above posts I see that the conservatives are winning their battle to keep voters uneducated and incapable of critical thinking. Every conservative outlet manages to link "liberal" with "education". That's why so many conservative voters are unaware of how to evaluate climate science or excellence in media, how to research and evaluate that research, how and when to question their "leaders". Conservative thinkers have been shown to value "authority" more than liberals, so when the "authority" tells them that college is a waste of time, they obediently accept low level blue collar jobs.

Pay gap between college grads and everyone else at a record (https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/01/12/pay-gap-between-college-grads-and-everyone-else-record/96493348/)

[Kenswing]

From most of the above posts I see that the conservatives are winning their battle to keep voters uneducated and incapable of critical thinking. Every conservative outlet manages to link "liberal" with "education". That's why so many conservative voters are unaware of how to evaluate climate science or excellence in media, how to research and evaluate that research, how and when to question their "leaders". Conservative thinkers have been shown to value "authority" more than liberals, so when the "authority" tells them that college is a waste of time, they obediently accept low level blue collar jobs.

Pay gap between college grads and everyone else at a record (https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/01/12/pay-gap-between-college-grads-and-everyone-else-record/96493348/)
Would you like fries with that? lol

[Bog99]

From most of the above posts I see that the conservatives are winning their battle to keep voters uneducated and incapable of critical thinking. Every conservative outlet manages to link "liberal" with "education". That's why so many conservative voters are unaware of how to evaluate climate science or excellence in media, how to research and evaluate that research, how and when to question their "leaders". Conservative thinkers have been shown to value "authority" more than liberals, so when the "authority" tells them that college is a waste of time, they obediently accept low level blue collar jobs.

Pay gap between college grads and everyone else at a record (https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/01/12/pay-gap-between-college-grads-and-everyone-else-record/96493348/)

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And how's the weather on Planet Femo?

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[Abby10]

From most of the above posts I see that the conservatives are winning their battle to keep voters uneducated and incapable of critical thinking. Every conservative outlet manages to link "liberal" with "education". That's why so many conservative voters are unaware of how to evaluate climate science or excellence in media, how to research and evaluate that research, how and when to question their "leaders". Conservative thinkers have been shown to value "authority" more than liberals, so when the "authority" tells them that college is a waste of time, they obediently accept low level blue collar jobs.

Pay gap between college grads and everyone else at a record (https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/01/12/pay-gap-between-college-grads-and-everyone-else-record/96493348/)

You think the trades are low level? I bet many make a lot more than you ever did. When I had a major remodel done on my house 10+ years ago, my contractor paid the electrician $250/hr. Made me re-think the $100,000+ college education my son got, earning a dual major in 4 years and then scrambling for one of those "wonderful" white color jobs. Believe me, he is no where near the $250/hour level and most likely will never see that figure. In the meantime, to this day he tells me what a waste most of his higher education was even though he chose a specific career path. He learned more in the courses that he opted to take at the local community college than he did at the well known university that he attended. Lucky for us he's a pretty smart and motivated young man and has figured out how to make money in more entrepreneurial ways or he would be just another nightmare college statistic like so many young college grads that I see today - steeped in debt and lucky to get a $10/hour job.

I just briefed the article you linked. It does not explain the standards that have changed in the workplace. What was once a job that a high school grad could obtain is now being taken by a college grad. It's not that the job has changed, it's the fact that there are so many more college grads these days looking for jobs that employers can now use a college degree as a standard requirement for employment. I noticed this changeover when my son was going to college many years back. A good example of this is a bank teller - most now require college degrees. In the meantime, what used to be entry level jobs for college grads now advertise the need for 5-10 years experience. It's a no win situation for the majority of college grads - the times have changed since we were at the same place in our lives.

[ColdNoMore]

You think the trades are low level? I bet many make a lot more than you ever did. When I had a major remodel done on my house 10+ years ago, my contractor paid the electrician $250/hr. Made me re-think the $100,000+ college education my son got, earning a dual major in 4 years and then scrambling for one of those "wonderful" white color jobs. Believe me, he is no where near the $250/hour level and most likely will never see that figure. In the meantime, to this day he tells me what a waste most of his higher education was even though he chose a specific career path. He learned more in the courses that he opted to take at the local community college than he did at the well known university that he attended. Lucky for us he's a pretty smart and motivated young man and has figured out how to make money in more entrepreneurial ways or he would be just another nightmare college statistic like so many young college grads that I see today - steeped in debt and lucky to get a $10/hour job.

I just briefed the article you linked. It does not explain the standards that have changed in the workplace. What was once a job that a high school grad could obtain is now being taken by a college grad. It's not that the job has changed, it's the fact that there are so many more college grads these days looking for jobs that employers can now use a college degree as a standard requirement for employment. I noticed this changeover when my son was going to college many years back. A good example of this is a bank teller - most now require college degrees. In the meantime, what used to be entry level jobs for college grads now advertise the need for 5-10 years experience. It's a no win situation for the majority of college grads - the times have changed since we were at the same place in our lives.

I'm throwing the BS flag on that. :oops:


Which brings into question...a lot of other things you claim. :ohdear:



Deepest Sincere Wishes: :wave:

[Bog99]

From most of the above posts I see that the conservatives are winning their battle to keep voters uneducated and incapable of critical thinking. Every conservative outlet manages to link "liberal" with "education". That's why so many conservative voters are unaware of how to evaluate climate science or excellence in media, how to research and evaluate that research, how and when to question their "leaders". Conservative thinkers have been shown to value "authority" more than liberals, so when the "authority" tells them that college is a waste of time, they obediently accept low level blue collar jobs.

Pay gap between college grads and everyone else at a record (https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/01/12/pay-gap-between-college-grads-and-everyone-else-record/96493348/)




You think the trades are low level? I bet many make a lot more than you ever did. When I had a major remodel done on my house 10+ years ago, my contractor paid the electrician $250/hr. Made me re-think the $100,000+ college education my son got, earning a dual major in 4 years and then scrambling for one of those "wonderful" white color jobs. Believe me, he is no where near the $250/hour level and most likely will never see that figure. In the meantime, to this day he tells me what a waste most of his higher education was even though he chose a specific career path. He learned more in the courses that he opted to take at the local community college than he did at the well known university that he attended. Lucky for us he's a pretty smart and motivated young man and has figured out how to make money in more entrepreneurial ways or he would be just another nightmare college statistic like so many young college grads that I see today - steeped in debt and lucky to get a $10/hour job.

I just briefed the article you linked. It does not explain the standards that have changed in the workplace. What was once a job that a high school grad could obtain is now being taken by a college grad. It's not that the job has changed, it's the fact that there are so many more college grads these days looking for jobs that employers can now use a college degree as a standard requirement for employment. I noticed this changeover when my son was going to college many years back. A good example of this is a bank teller - most now require college degrees. In the meantime, what used to be entry level jobs for college grads now advertise the need for 5-10 years experience. It's a no win situation for the majority of college grads - the times have changed since we were at the same place in our lives.

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Points well taken for the naive, View-ish, coffee-klatch remarks you responded to.

However, I'd like to point out that the $250/hr electrician is not a free market price for labor. It is a trade-guild racket price. These trades have rigged the system with trade licencing laws to restrict the supply of fill-in-the-blank labor to force up prices, and as you can see, it works, for them, meanwhile you the consumer gets screwed.

This is true for many of the building trades (plumbers and electricians are notorious for) but also doctors (!) (high health care costs, anyone?), dentist, lawyers, accountants... all have their own supply restricting rackets with the (usually) the state governments. These trade restriction laws are Type 2 laws. More on those, as follows:

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https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-political-talk-88/structure-politics-type-1-vs-type-2-laws-248949/index3.html#post1470752


https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-political-talk-88/femo-fascism-101-a-248942/

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[mellincf]

Responding to all of the above, my son (graduate, MBA, and daughter in law (graduate) together earn over half a million a year. I, as a college grad, managed to pick "Liberal Arts" and made nowhere near that ever in any salaried position...so I made my living in real estate. Nevertheless, I used my education in that I was able to make conversation with people of every background, since I knew a "little" about a lot of things. It never hurts to know how to spell and use the English language correctly, to know where Belgium is located (it happened) or to know something about a hobby your client may be interested in. Anybody can do that, of course, but I still believe higher education gives you the background where you don't have to start from scratch.

Beyond just the basics of education, the college experience teaches an 18 year old how to live with all kinds of other people, how to adjust being thrown into a totally different experience, how to use your brain discussing subjects with other bright people, how to challenge your professors (without getting flunked), and generally gives young people time to grow up. Military service might do the same, I guess.

[Bog99]

Responding to all of the above, my son (graduate, MBA, and daughter in law (graduate) together earn over half a million a year. I, as a college grad, managed to pick "Liberal Arts" and made nowhere near that ever in any salaried position...so I made my living in real estate. Nevertheless, I used my education in that I was able to make conversation with people of every background, since I knew a "little" about a lot of things. It never hurts to know how to spell and use the English language correctly, to know where Belgium is located (it happened) or to know something about a hobby your client may be interested in. Anybody can do that, of course, but I still believe higher education gives you the background where you don't have to start from scratch.

Beyond just the basics of education, the college experience teaches an 18 year old how to live with all kinds of other people, how to adjust being thrown into a totally different experience, how to use your brain discussing subjects with other bright people, how to challenge your professors (without getting flunked), and generally gives young people time to grow up. Military service might do the same, I guess.



Well good for you.

Does this have anything to do with


https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-political-talk-88/government-education-aids-virus-femo-fascism-248831/

?

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[Don Baldwin]

Where there are no failures.....everybody wins and nobody loses....where the neutering of excelling and over achievers are made to be on the same level as the care less dregs.

Yup...femoland...where everything/everybody is happy all the time. There ARE no problems in femoland.

They'd rather be operated on by the #15th finisher than the 1st place winner. By a black woman who got a quota.

From most of the above posts I see that the conservatives are winning their battle to keep voters uneducated and incapable of critical thinking. Every conservative outlet manages to link "liberal" with "education". That's why so many conservative voters are unaware of how to evaluate climate science or excellence in media, how to research and evaluate that research, how and when to question their "leaders". Conservative thinkers have been shown to value "authority" more than liberals, so when the "authority" tells them that college is a waste of time, they obediently accept low level blue collar jobs.

Pay gap between college grads and everyone else at a record (https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/01/12/pay-gap-between-college-grads-and-everyone-else-record/96493348/)

Oh please...the D party IS stupid minorities and women...who can't comprehend logic. You just repeat what you're told.

For 80% of kids...it IS a waste of time because they're NOT going to get hired. Because of the liberals promoting "education"...we've now got 100,000 kids going to school and only 10,000 jobs for them when/if they graduated.

Responding to all of the above, my son (graduate, MBA, and daughter in law (graduate) together earn over half a million a year. I, as a college grad, managed to pick "Liberal Arts" and made nowhere near that ever in any salaried position...so I made my living in real estate. Nevertheless, I used my education in that I was able to make conversation with people of every background, since I knew a "little" about a lot of things. It never hurts to know how to spell and use the English language correctly, to know where Belgium is located (it happened) or to know something about a hobby your client may be interested in. Anybody can do that, of course, but I still believe higher education gives you the background where you don't have to start from scratch.

Beyond just the basics of education, the college experience teaches an 18 year old how to live with all kinds of other people, how to adjust being thrown into a totally different experience, how to use your brain discussing subjects with other bright people, how to challenge your professors (without getting flunked), and generally gives young people time to grow up. Military service might do the same, I guess.

They're BOTH leeches...skimming for a living. They don't "produce" anything. A f@cking lawyer...and you're PROUD of that? Guess you think she belongs on the bottom of the ocean...it's a pretty universal feeling among us "civilians".

I guess you've never been to either...college OR the military...neither are like that.

[mellincf]

[QUOTE=Guest]


Well good for you.

Does this have anything to do with


https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-political-talk-88/government-education-aids-virus-femo-fascism-248831/

[SIZE="7"]WHY DO YOU FEEL SHOUTING MAKES YOU LOOK SMARTER?

[Abby10]

I'm throwing the BS flag on that. :oops:


Which brings into question...a lot of other things you claim. :ohdear:



Deepest Sincere Wishes: :wave:

If my husband and I had not seen the bill for ourselves, we wouldn't have believed it either. This electrician was not part of the proposed project but was brought on to troubleshoot a particular problem. Lucky for us, it took him less than 2 hours to rectify the situation. My point was to the poster who was touting the necessity of higher education and called blue collar workers low level workers. I am certainly not against higher education, but was trying to point out that times have changed. Unless you are going for a specific career path, a professional path being the best option, it can be a waste of time and money for most. So many young people graduate with massive debt and then are barely able to get jobs above minimum wage. In the meantime, many trades are wide open and looking for workers. You question my integrity in knowing this to be true.......maybe it's because I'm still in the workforce, unlike many of you, and I see it every day. Many of these young people are still living with their parents into their 30's - not because they are uneducated or even unmotivated, but because they can't find viable jobs and are steeped in debt.

My other point was regarding the changes in job requirements that has occurred over the years. I mentioned a bank teller. I have a cousin who back in the late 60's or early 70's started out as a bank teller with a high school education. Without any further education, just hard work and dedication, she ended up retiring as Vice President of a major bank. Today, she wouldn't have been able to get her foot in the door without a college degree. It's not easy for the young people out there. So much has changed to make it more difficult. Someone on another thread some time back brought up apprenticeship and why we should maybe re-look at that concept. I couldn't agree more - that, in my opinion is how my cousin got to where she was. And my mentioning of my son's experience is also a reflection of that, as he has always said he learned much more in the workplace than he ever did in college. Internships and externships are a reflection of that concept but unfortunately there are too few of those types of positions available.

[Taltarzac725]

Responding to all of the above, my son (graduate, MBA, and daughter in law (graduate) together earn over half a million a year. I, as a college grad, managed to pick "Liberal Arts" and made nowhere near that ever in any salaried position...so I made my living in real estate. Nevertheless, I used my education in that I was able to make conversation with people of every background, since I knew a "little" about a lot of things. It never hurts to know how to spell and use the English language correctly, to know where Belgium is located (it happened) or to know something about a hobby your client may be interested in. Anybody can do that, of course, but I still believe higher education gives you the background where you don't have to start from scratch.

Beyond just the basics of education, the college experience teaches an 18 year old how to live with all kinds of other people, how to adjust being thrown into a totally different experience, how to use your brain discussing subjects with other bright people, how to challenge your professors (without getting flunked), and generally gives young people time to grow up. Military service might do the same, I guess.


Nicely put. I am probably the wrong person to go to about the value of education having four degrees and spending time at the University of Nevada, Reno; BYU Law School; the University of Denver Graduate School in Librarianship and Information Management; the College of San Mateo; and the University of Minnesota Law School as well as a number of language classes at the U of MN. All this education for the 224 613 Project and working my way through all this in some way or another. Work/study, a stipend grant, night school, some student loans, etc. I have met thousands of people in my academic travelings and helped quite a number as a reference librarian of some kind at some of these colleges and universities.

I did create a vast network for helping with the 224 613 Project but that does not put bread on the table.

This is a work in progress though and involves hundreds of thousands of people.

It did teach me to think critically which is very useful and I sometimes do OK on the FunTrivia.com games.

I have not come up with a way to make money from this humanitarian work of mine though. And it is a great deal of work but done pro bono.

Other schools and universities are very much involved in this 224 613 Project as well. You would have to see my Facebook page to know that however and I fear all the trolls and even worse people who might be on here now. So, most people will not see those Facebook documents.

[Abby10]

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Points well taken for the naive, View-ish, coffee-klatch remarks you responded to.

However, I'd like to point out that the $250/hr electrician is not a free market price for labor. It is a trade-guild racket price. These trades have rigged the system with trade licencing laws to restrict the supply of fill-in-the-blank labor to force up prices, and as you can see, it works, for them, meanwhile you the consumer gets screwed.

This is true for many of the building trades (plumbers and electricians are notorious for) but also doctors (!) (high health care costs, anyone?), dentist, lawyers, accountants... all have their own supply restricting rackets with the (usually) the state governments. These trade restriction laws are Type 2 laws. More on those, as follows:

.





https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-political-talk-88/structure-politics-type-1-vs-type-2-laws-248949/index3.html#post1470752


https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-political-talk-88/femo-fascism-101-a-248942/

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Good point about the $250/hr comment. This particular electrician had his own business so I thought it was because of his reputation for troubleshooting difficult situations that he could demand that high of a price. Regardless, I took offense to the poster who called blue color workers low level. A low blow in my book. Many of these people work hard, own their own businesses, and make more money than the average worker, including college grads.

[Wiotte]

Good point about the $250/hr comment. This particular electrician had his own business so I thought it was because of his reputation for troubleshooting difficult situations that he could demand that high of a price. Regardless, I took offense to the poster who called blue color workers low level. A low blow in my book. Many of these people work hard, own their own businesses, and make more money than the average worker, including college grads.



It’s human nature to construct a ladder gauge for success. It makes them feel better looking down because it’s so depressing looking up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Don Baldwin]

If my husband and I had not seen the bill for ourselves, we wouldn't have believed it either. This electrician was not part of the proposed project but was brought on to troubleshoot a particular problem. Lucky for us, it took him less than 2 hours to rectify the situation. My point was to the poster who was touting the necessity of higher education and called blue collar workers low level workers. I am certainly not against higher education, but was trying to point out that times have changed. Unless you are going for a specific career path, a professional path being the best option, it can be a waste of time and money for most. So many young people graduate with massive debt and then are barely able to get jobs above minimum wage. In the meantime, many trades are wide open and looking for workers. You question my integrity in knowing this to be true.......maybe it's because I'm still in the workforce, unlike many of you, and I see it every day. Many of these young people are still living with their parents into their 30's - not because they are uneducated or even unmotivated, but because they can't find viable jobs and are steeped in debt.

My other point was regarding the changes in job requirements that has occurred over the years. I mentioned a bank teller. I have a cousin who back in the late 60's or early 70's started out as a bank teller with a high school education. Without any further education, just hard work and dedication, she ended up retiring as Vice President of a major bank. Today, she wouldn't have been able to get her foot in the door without a college degree. It's not easy for the young people out there. So much has changed to make it more difficult. Someone on another thread some time back brought up apprenticeship and why we should maybe re-look at that concept. I couldn't agree more - that, in my opinion is how my cousin got to where she was. And my mentioning of my son's experience is also a reflection of that, as he has always said he learned much more in the workplace than he ever did in college. Internships and externships are a reflection of that concept but unfortunately there are too few of those types of positions available.

You want the best...pay him.

Because they were CONVINCED that they NEEDED an degree to become anything...by the "educational industry". A FOR PROFIT industry.

You're talking about WHITE kids...black and brown kids get slots for doing nothing but showing up and asking.

The EDUCATION INDUSTRY killed them. The schools "teach" for a profit...internships teach to groom their replacement. BIG difference.

Nicely put. I am probably the wrong person to go to about the value of education having four degrees and spending time at the University of Nevada, Reno; BYU Law School; the University of Denver Graduate School in Librarianship and Information Management; the College of San Mateo; and the University of Minnesota Law School as well as a number of language classes at the U of MN. All this education for the 224 613 Project and working my way through all this in some way or another. Work/study, a stipend grant, night school, some student loans, etc. I have met thousands of people in my academic travelings and helped quite a number as a reference librarian of some kind at some of these colleges and universities.

I did create a vast network for helping with the 224 613 Project but that does not put bread on the table.

This is a work in progress though and involves hundreds of thousands of people.

It did teach me to think critically which is very useful and I sometimes do OK on the FunTrivia.com games.

I have not come up with a way to make money from this humanitarian work of mine though. And it is a great deal of work but done pro bono.

Other schools and universities are very much involved in this 224 613 Project as well. You would have to see my Facebook page to know that however and I fear all the trolls and even worse people who might be on here now. So, most people will not see those Facebook documents.

And yet...you're a stupid ignorant idiot...go figure.

Critical thinking and TRIVIA? They're NOT related you stupid twit.



Good point about the $250/hr comment. This particular electrician had his own business so I thought it was because of his reputation for troubleshooting difficult situations that he could demand that high of a price. Regardless, I took offense to the poster who called blue color workers low level. A low blow in my book. Many of these people work hard, own their own businesses, and make more money than the average worker, including college grads.

You think it's "normal"...it's "OK"..to pay some fat slob sitting behind his desk $250 an hour because he's a "lawyer". But you have a problem paying the areas BEST electrician who fixed a "difficult situation" the same?

[Taltarzac725]

It’s human nature to construct a ladder gauge for success. It makes them feel better looking down because it’s so depressing looking up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is actually a wise comment. :bowdown:

[Bog99]

Good point about the $250/hr comment. This particular electrician had his own business so I thought it was because of his reputation for troubleshooting difficult situations that he could demand that high of a price. Regardless, I took offense to the poster who called blue color workers low level. A low blow in my book. Many of these people work hard, own their own businesses, and make more money than the average worker, including college grads.

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https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-political-talk-88/liberalism-cult-conceit-247122/



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[Taltarzac725]

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https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-political-talk-88/liberalism-cult-conceit-247122/



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bog99 slime. He keeps on throwing it on the TOTV Political Forum. Maybe he is a russian troll.

[Abby10]

You think it's "normal"...it's "OK"..to pay some fat slob sitting behind his desk $250 an hour because he's a "lawyer". But you have a problem paying the areas BEST electrician who fixed a "difficult situation" the same?

If you're addressing me in this quote, I wasn't complaining at all about paying the $250/hr - the guy was a master of his trade and I was quite impressed by his work. I was merely trying to point out that choosing to pursue a trade vs college is not a such a bad idea.

Btw, I never mentioned anything about lawyers, but since you brought it up - no argument with you there - been there, done that, hopefully never again. Talk about throwing money out the window!

[Taltarzac725]

If you're addressing me in this quote, I wasn't complaining at all about paying the $250/hr - the guy was a master of his trade and I was quite impressed by his work. I was merely trying to point out that choosing to pursue a trade vs college is not a such a bad idea.

Btw, I never mentioned anything about lawyers, but since you brought it up - no argument with you there - been there, done that, hopefully never again. Talk about throwing money out the window!

It is the lawyer's connections with the judges and knowledge of the ins and out of the court system which you are paying for. Too bad we cannot have that kind of information in a library some where? Lawyers would not like that though to have a more level playing field. Instead, lawyers make things more complicated so that they can charge $250 an hour. Some are worth it though just because of their talent to tell a story in front of a jury. Or draft a complicated will taking into account the often archaic property laws you have in each state. It is archaic often so that lawyers and judges can keep on getting the green.

And lets not get started on the Tax Code.

[Bog99]

If you're addressing me in this quote, I wasn't complaining at all about paying the $250/hr - the guy was a master of his trade and I was quite impressed by his work. I was merely trying to point out that choosing to pursue a trade vs college is not a such a bad idea.

Btw, I never mentioned anything about lawyers, but since you brought it up - no argument with you there - been there, done that, hopefully never again. Talk about throwing money out the window!

It is the lawyer's connections with the judges and knowledge of the ins and out of the court system which you are paying for. Too bad we cannot have that kind of information in a library some where? Lawyers would not like that though to have a more level playing field. Instead, lawyers make things more complicated so that they can charge $250 an hour. Some are worth it though just because of their talent to tell a story in front of a jury. Or draft a complicated will taking into account the often archaic property laws you have in each state. It is archaic often so that lawyers and judges can keep on getting the green.

And lets not get started on the Tax Code.


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Type 2 laws are a huge boondoggle for lawyers -- so naturally the legal profession loves Femo-Fascism...

... just like the accounting profession loves a stupidly complicated tax code.




https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-political-talk-88/structure-politics-type-1-vs-type-2-laws-248949/index3.html#post1470752


https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-political-talk-88/femo-fascism-101-a-248942/


In a sense, the Femo-Fascists are justified in their conceit and contempt for the middle class, because of all these hardships successfully inflicted on them.

For all the success of Femo-Fascism, one wonders why they don't celebrate the humiliation, defeat, and destruction of the middle class, the way Real Americans celebrate liberty.

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[rubicon]

Forced integration of schools caused the dumb-ing down of education.

the once challenging curriculum were replaced with novelty courses such as diversity training, etc

Entrance to college became a political and race became the priary factor with the liberal trope of diversity benefited and broadened education, unless of course you were of Asian descent.

99% of college and university facility lean liberal

the liberal agenda promoted socialism or capitalism, claimed offensive speech was not in First Amendment free speech rights, etc.

High school kids once had an opportunity to focus on college credits business credits trade/vocational credits.

trade jobs go unfilled because e do not have a sufficient supply of trade labor.

we do have too man lawyers, accountant, indian chiefs

Personal Best Regards:

[Bog99]

It is the lawyer's connections with the judges and knowledge of the ins and out of the court system which you are paying for. Too bad we cannot have that kind of information in a library some where? Lawyers would not like that though to have a more level playing field. Instead, lawyers make things more complicated so that they can charge $250 an hour. Some are worth it though just because of their talent to tell a story in front of a jury. Or draft a complicated will taking into account the often archaic property laws you have in each state. It is archaic often so that lawyers and judges can keep on getting the green.

And lets not get started on the Tax Code.

How do you know you got the lowest price for the electrician?

You didnt. You were screwed by the trade guild, which is what trade guilds are supposed to do for their members. (Screwed by trade licensing laws, type 2, just like plumbers, doctors, lawyers, ...)

[Don Baldwin]

Forced integration of schools caused the dumb-ing down of education.

the once challenging curriculum were replaced with novelty courses such as diversity training, etc

Entrance to college became a political and race became the priary factor with the liberal trope of diversity benefited and broadened education, unless of course you were of Asian descent.

99% of college and university facility lean liberal

the liberal agenda promoted socialism or capitalism, claimed offensive speech was not in First Amendment free speech rights, etc.

High school kids once had an opportunity to focus on college credits business credits trade/vocational credits.

trade jobs go unfilled because e do not have a sufficient supply of trade labor.

we do have too man lawyers, accountant, indian chiefs

Personal Best Regards:

Because the coursework had to be dumbed down for them to graduate. Having black kids in class is like the mainstreaming of the retarded kids. They slow everyone else down as they TRY to catch up. In my day...in elementary school...we had a few black kids in each class. They just sat there...never said anything...never answered any questions...they were just "there". I don't know how they graduated...I didn't really care at the time.

Once demanding coursework was dumbed down so they wouldn't be totally lost all the time.

Harvard announced they will match enrollment with national demographics. That means only 25% are white males. BTW...Harvard gets 1% of their revenues from tuition...they can afford to let EVERYONE go for free...and with HALF the students minorities...many ARE going for free. I'm sure Obama did...graduating magna with his C- average and a "recomendation".

Because MANY professors never worked. They spent their entire lives in academia, living among college campuses, among the "brightest"...the 1% of minorities...thinking they're ALL like that. When the 99% live near MLK Blvd in a VERY different culture.

The "liberal" agenda is the "women's" agenda. Liberals, democrats are mostly women.

High school kids also didn't have to focus on not getting jumped by blacks, not getting robbed. The girls didn't have to worry about getting molested by some black. Times were different...they were better. Segregation...diversity...DESTROYS...ALWAYS.

Trade jobs go unfilled because the kids are all taking detectable drugs. Cannabis stays detectable for a month I hear. Kids can't pass a standard drug test.

We have too many worthless skimmers...skimming off the profits of those who do the work. That's your government...skimming off of your labor through taxes.

[Abby10]

Because MANY professors never worked. They spent their entire lives in academia, living among college campuses, among the "brightest"...the 1% of minorities...thinking they're ALL like that.

Trade jobs go unfilled because the kids are all taking detectable drugs. Cannabis stays detectable for a month I hear. Kids can't pass a standard drug test.



Picked out 2 sections of your post that I wanted to expand-

You just brought up another reason why community college is sometimes a better avenue to pursue. The teachers there are often part-time. They work in their respective profession while teaching on the side. Even many of the full-time teachers have worked in their respective professions for years before becoming teachers there. At least that is what I have seen at our local community college which is pretty highly regarded by the local universities, many of which accept their credits. I remember my son saying even at the university where he attended, the professor he learned the most from was someone who had worked in the industry before signing on to teach at the business school there.

You make a valid point, one which I had forgotten, in your second paragraph. Family members of mine who are in manufacturing say the same thing. It's not that they don't have a sufficient number of applicants, it's that so many do not pass the drug test. A lot of time is wasted on interviewing, only to that end.

[Don Baldwin]

Picked out 2 sections of your post that I wanted to expand-

You just brought up another reason why community college is sometimes a better avenue to pursue. The teachers there are often part-time. They work in their respective profession while teaching on the side. Even many of the full-time teachers have worked in their respective professions for years before becoming teachers there. At least that is what I have seen at our local community college which is pretty highly regarded by the local universities, many of which accept their credits. I remember my son saying even at the university where he attended, the professor he learned the most from was someone who had worked in the industry before signing on to teach at the business school there.

You make a valid point, one which I had forgotten, in your second paragraph. Family members of mine who are in manufacturing say the same thing. It's not that they don't have a sufficient number of applicants, it's that so many do not pass the drug test. A lot of time is wasted on interviewing, only to that end.

Sure Abby...thanks for the comments...

But the bigger point is they push for EVERYONE to go to college...take out a loan and "become somebody"...is what they keep telling kids. So...they go into debt, fail because they can't do the work because they came from a black school where they didn't learn anything, and even IF they graduate...there are 100,000 to fill 10,000 jobs.

There ARE tests that only detect cannabis use in the last 6-12 hours...I looked it up...mouth swab...but the companies are against ALL drugs and stick with the urine tests that are coming up positive a month after ingestion.

The rest of my points are correct too Abby...especially about diversity and integration in the schools...the problems the black kids cause.

A white girl lives in CONSTANT fear in a majority black school. They get "grabbed by the pussy" in the halls. If they politely refuse a proposition from a black they are harassed and called racist until they relent.

You WON'T go to MLK Blvd and SEE how the 99% of blacks REALLY live. You WON'T go to the welfare office to SEE that it's full of Hispanics and blacks and NOT 70% white as the propaganda tells you.

Will you GO to a black school and SEE what it is REALLY like? To SEE how the innocent...well they were until going to a black school...white girls are treated. Will you ASK your grandchildren what it's REALLY like having blacks in the school?

I don't lie to you...I warn you! In 30 years America resembles Mexico II more than America. BECAUSE of shifting demographics. We've ALL seen a neighborhood change. We've seen cities change. WHY did they change? The people who live there changed. If it became filled with minorities, Hispanics and blacks it got worse...much worse.

I'm telling you what ALWAYS happens...this is NOT the first time minorities have taken over a country by becoming the majority.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Today, colleges have seemed to convince everyone that their kids need to go to college. Some kids are not and never will be college material. We do need craftsmen and tradesmen and people can do very well in those fields.

I taught at a college for 15 years and I would say that at least half of my students should never have been accepted into college. Twenty-five percent shouldn't have been allowed to graduate high school.

The education system has become a vehicle for teachers and administrators to get rich.

I worked with a kid that had a bachelor's degree in journalism. He was selling shoes in a golf store and refused to take any job that wasn't as a sports journalist.

I have two boys. One is a senior software engineer and has done very well in college and in life. The other is an auto mechanic he might make more money than his brother.

I know a guy that also has two boys. One did very well in school and graduated college with a degree in journalism. The other went to trade school and became a plumber. The plumber is 29 and just bought his own house has a fancy sports car and a motorcycle. The boy with the degree is 27 and lives at home with his parents while covering high school sports, part-time, for the local town newspaper.

Former Secretary of Education, Bill Bennett said that the Dept of Education should be abolished and that education should be the job of the states. I think that would be a good start in fixing this problem.

[Don Baldwin]

Today, colleges have seemed to convince everyone that their kids need to go to college. Some kids are not and never will be college material. We do need craftsmen and tradesmen and people can do very well in those fields.

I taught at a college for 15 years and I would say that at least half of my students should never have been accepted into college. Twenty-five percent shouldn't have been allowed to graduate high school.

The education system has become a vehicle for teachers and administrators to get rich.

I worked with a kid that had a bachelor's degree in journalism. He was selling shoes in a golf store and refused to take any job that wasn't as a sports journalist.

I have two boys. One is a senior software engineer and has done very well in college and in life. The other is an auto mechanic he might make more money than his brother.

I know a guy that also has two boys. One did very well in school and graduated college with a degree in journalism. The other went to trade school and became a plumber. The plumber is 29 and just bought his own house has a fancy sports car and a motorcycle. The boy with the degree is 27 and lives at home with his parents while covering high school sports, part-time, for the local town newspaper.

Former Secretary of Education, Bill Bennett said that the Dept of Education should be abolished and that education should be the job of the states. I think that would be a good start in fixing this problem.

"Education" is also the victim of a changing demographic. America WAS 90% white...it is now 49% white...it makes a difference...it's already MADE a difference. This is NOT the same "caliber" of people as it was in the 1950s. We are doomed. America WILL fall...EVERY country before it has.

[Dbinac]

Great comment. Please encourage your grandchildren to forgo college and go to a trade school. Great careers await. Reject unions. They do nothing but hurt workers and provide money to "liberals". I wish my children had rejected college and gone into the trades doing important work like landscaping or golf course upkeep. Professions that will make America great again. Another thing. Lets privatize the police and firefighters. Another blow to the unions. Trump in 2020!

[Fraugoofy]

Today, colleges have seemed to convince everyone that their kids need to go to college. Some kids are not and never will be college material. We do need craftsmen and tradesmen and people can do very well in those fields.

I taught at a college for 15 years and I would say that at least half of my students should never have been accepted into college. Twenty-five percent shouldn't have been allowed to graduate high school.

The education system has become a vehicle for teachers and administrators to get rich.

I worked with a kid that had a bachelor's degree in journalism. He was selling shoes in a golf store and refused to take any job that wasn't as a sports journalist.

I have two boys. One is a senior software engineer and has done very well in college and in life. The other is an auto mechanic he might make more money than his brother.

I know a guy that also has two boys. One did very well in school and graduated college with a degree in journalism. The other went to trade school and became a plumber. The plumber is 29 and just bought his own house has a fancy sports car and a motorcycle. The boy with the degree is 27 and lives at home with his parents while covering high school sports, part-time, for the local town newspaper.

Former Secretary of Education, Bill Bennett said that the Dept of Education should be abolished and that education should be the job of the states. I think that would be a good start in fixing this problem.I agree with many of your points, including supporting tech schools. I do not believe, however, that teachers are getting rich. My son just got a job after 2 years of tech college making a starting salary that equals mine after 27 years of teaching in Wisconsin... perhaps other parts of the country pay better than WI...

Sent from my SM-N920R4 using Tapatalk

[Wiotte]

Great comment. Please encourage your grandchildren to forgo college and go to a trade school. Great careers await. Reject unions. They do nothing but hurt workers and provide money to "liberals". I wish my children had rejected college and gone into the trades doing important work like landscaping or golf course upkeep. Professions that will make America great again. Another thing. Lets privatize the police and firefighters. Another blow to the unions. Trump in 2020!


Your post proves there really is no cure for stupid, assuming you’re of retirement age. My apologies if you’re a young man, there still is time.

Union membership still pays...at least in terms of higher wages. The typical union worker made $970 a week in 2014, compared to $763 for non-union workers, according to the latest Bureau of Labor Statistics data.Feb 24, 2015


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171113/061d33037306a175ab95510f4357a147.jpg

Fewer Unions, Lower Pay for Everybody - The Atlantic (https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/497954/)


Oh, and your comment calling landscapers and golf course workers tradesmen, you haven’t a clue. They’re what’s called COMMON LABORERS. I’ll bet you never did a hard days work in your pitiful white collar life.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Topspinmo]

I agree with many of your points, including supporting tech schools. I do not believe, however, that teachers are getting rich. My son just got a job after 2 years of tech college making a starting salary that equals mine after 27 years of teaching in Wisconsin... perhaps other parts of the country pay better than WI...

Sent from my SM-N920R4 using Tapatalk

Not the teachers in the class room, college deans, football coaches, unions, and management. The people in the trenches always make the least, this includes benefits.