This says it well....

[Guest]

Today on this board the President has been called a "breath of fresh air"....he has been called a great leader and manager.....I happen to agree with this statement from Mitt Romney today...

"A Campaign Begins Today [Mitt Romney]


America has just witnessed an unconscionable abuse of power. President Obama has betrayed his oath to the nation — rather than bringing us together, ushering in a new kind of politics, and rising above raw partisanship, he has succumbed to the lowest denominator of incumbent power: justifying the means by extolling the ends. He promised better; we deserved better.

He calls his accomplishment “historic” — in this he is correct, although not for the reason he intends. Rather, it is an historic usurpation of the legislative process — he unleashed the nuclear option, enlisted not a single Republican vote in either chamber, bribed reluctant members of his own party, paid-off his union backers, scapegoated insurers, and justified his act with patently fraudulent accounting. What Barack Obama has ushered into the American political landscape is not good for our country; in the words of an ancient maxim, “what starts twisted, ends twisted.”
His health-care bill is unhealthy for America. It raises taxes, slashes the more private side of Medicare, installs price controls, and puts a new federal bureaucracy in charge of health care. It will create a new entitlement even as the ones we already have are bankrupt. For these reasons and more, the act should be repealed. That campaign begins today."

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NzgyMzA1NWUwNjA5OTg2ZTUzMTliYzQyOTM1ZmIzNTI

This was a politial act that has no equal in history, at least none that I recall. How can people ignore how he got here....in the smoke filled back rooms (and that is literal), the payoffs and we applaud him

[Guest]

All true.

I think what we have is what I coin "blissfully ignorant liberals." They are the normal everyday otherwise good people who to them as long as it sounds good and feels good they don't dig much deeper. Outcomes and actual consequences don't really matter. Some people don't have health insurance and thats a bad thing so lets get for them. Sounds wonderful and fair.

They are totally blind to is the sinister anti-American, anti-freedom forces at work who in the name of feel good and fairness propose incremental polices that attack everything that has made America great. They do it in the name of the people but in fact they do it in their own names alone.

They are (current administration) power hungry, corrupt, anti-constitutuion, anti-fee market, anti-capitolisum. They believe and have been taught that America is evil. We are the source of most of the worlds problems. Rich are evil, the poor need to be taken care of by the government on the backs of the producers. They set up a system where you have no choice but to need them. That is where their power comes from. If you oppose it they will do exactly what they did the other night... at any cost.

We are not freedom fighters we are simply murders who force our military on other countries, never mind the hundreds of millions we have liberated with our blood over the course of history. This is what Obama and his type believe and their solution is America should be taken down and rebuilt. That's the end game for them.

The BIL's go along for the ride because the agenda is neatly packaged in feel good, sound good and fairness.

Meanwhile right before their eyes, liberty is being systematically stripped away. When it's gone it will be too late.

[Guest]

Today on this board the President has been called a "breath of fresh air"....he has been called a great leader and manager.....I happen to agree with this statement from Mitt Romney today...

"A Campaign Begins Today [Mitt Romney]


America has just witnessed an unconscionable abuse of power. President Obama has betrayed his oath to the nation — rather than bringing us together, ushering in a new kind of politics, and rising above raw partisanship, he has succumbed to the lowest denominator of incumbent power: justifying the means by extolling the ends. He promised better; we deserved better.

He calls his accomplishment “historic” — in this he is correct, although not for the reason he intends. Rather, it is an historic usurpation of the legislative process — he unleashed the nuclear option, enlisted not a single Republican vote in either chamber, bribed reluctant members of his own party, paid-off his union backers, scapegoated insurers, and justified his act with patently fraudulent accounting. What Barack Obama has ushered into the American political landscape is not good for our country; in the words of an ancient maxim, “what starts twisted, ends twisted.”
His health-care bill is unhealthy for America. It raises taxes, slashes the more private side of Medicare, installs price controls, and puts a new federal bureaucracy in charge of health care. It will create a new entitlement even as the ones we already have are bankrupt. For these reasons and more, the act should be repealed. That campaign begins today."

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NzgyMzA1NWUwNjA5OTg2ZTUzMTliYzQyOTM1ZmIzNTI

This was a politial act that has no equal in history, at least none that I recall. How can people ignore how he got here....in the smoke filled back rooms (and that is literal), the payoffs and we applaud him

Gee, isn't that the same Mitt Romney who -- as Mass. governor -- sponsored almost identical legislation that the state legislature approved by a majority of members (including now U.S. Senator Scott Brown) and then signed into law?
I'm aghast...another political flip-flop!

[Guest]

You're glossing over the issue. It's not about about Mitt.

[Guest]

The liberals ( aka democrats) are not reading this because they are busy patting themselves on the back and feeling real good about themselves,sipping their chablis wine and munching on brie cheese. Most are the academia types who never had to toil in the private sector and mostly ignorant on where and how their paychecks came to be.
But they figure the great unwashed will be taken care of and they can go back to their upscale lifestyle and their pursuits without the guilt that drives their ego's.

Meanwhile, small businesses are worried about more expenses and maybe they will have to lay-off more people. The majority of people are puzzled as to how we can add another entitlement to the ones already going bankrupt.
Gee, I bumped into alot of grouchy people today. I guess I hang out with the wrong people.

[Guest]

The majority of people are puzzled as to how we can add another entitlement to the ones already going bankrupt.

Not something a liberal would ponder.

[Guest]

Gee, isn't that the same Mitt Romney who -- as Mass. governor -- sponsored almost identical legislation that the state legislature approved by a majority of members (including now U.S. Senator Scott Brown) and then signed into law?
I'm aghast...another political flip-flop!

You obviously are all giddy today but you TOTALLY 100% missed what he said.......he was talking about the dirty, corrupt process that was used to get this bill passed in WASH !

You may be interested...I am not sure how many,IF ANY of the democrats from Mass voted for this bill, and you may also be interested to know that the Dem governor who followed up there eliminated a provision in that bill to provide transparency which has driven up costs.

I would also suggest that you lay the plans side by side and you will see the differences.

AGAIN....The point of the thread is the dirty PROCESS used, so please read it again and respond !

[Guest]

You obviously are all giddy today but you TOTALLY 100% missed what he said.......he was talking about the dirty, corrupt process that was used to get this bill passed in WASH !

You may be interested...I am not sure how many,IF ANY of the democrats from Mass voted for this bill, and you may also be interested to know that the Dem governor who followed up there eliminated a provision in that bill to provide transparency which has driven up costs.

I would also suggest that you lay the plans side by side and you will see the differences.

AGAIN....The point of the thread is the dirty PROCESS used, so please read it again and respond !

This "dirty process" tag is just another example of your conviction which was in place before the President was elected and, it appears, you will under no circumstances change, regardless of the facts.

The process by which health care reform occurred is better described as open and egalitarian, especially in comparison to how previous major legislation was enacted. If you study history you know that "great" Presidents like Lincoln and the Roosevelts really did some serious arm twisting. Lyndon Johnson had congressmen by the throats, (and other body parts), virtually dictating the monumental civil rights laws. And JQ Public had little or no information about what was happening while those events unfolded. By your definition those were "dirty processes" yet there is overwhelming consensus that the legislation passed under those circumstances were important, positive steps in our nation's progress.

In contrast, health care reform was an announced goal from Day 1. Knowledgeable people from all backgrounds and political persuasions were invited to contribute their ideas. Eventually, a bill, with provisions from Republicans and Democrats was drafted and published everywhere. Members of both parties suggested revisions and even things the President really wanted, (like the public option), were compromised. In the end, the bills in both houses retained the fundamentally important elements needed to make this a good initial piece of legislation. The process was more open than perhaps any other act of Congress in history, and I confidently predict, while many of us are still living, the new law will be judged another important step in our nation's progress.

The Republicans boxed themselves in early. Leaders like Romney dredged up every conceivable scare tactic and half-truth to discredit every piece of the proposal, just to defeat it at any cost. The rank-in-file followed along like sheep because they knew there would be a death penalty for breaking solidarity. The Republicans used the same tactic they used during the 90's and previously, fueled by millions of special interest dollars. And because they knew it would take at least a year to go through the process, they had time to add the frenzied effort to incite the citizenry. It just didn't work this time. Last evening, the best they could muster was a few thousand supporters spewing hatred and threats, and a "distinguished gentlemen" calling his pro-life colleague a "baby killer".

If you know Romney's history, surely you understand why he would make such an extreme political statement today. I would think you would see through the exaggerated wording and obvious political motivation instead of adopting it as your rationale for an objective judgement of the reform bill.

[Guest]

What a bunch of hooey. Obama has broken almost every one of his campaign promises. He doesn't care about anything except getting his name on this bill. We can not afford this monstrosity. This isn't about health care it is about power. Plain and simple.
This could be the straw the broke the camel's back. Our whole financial institute is collapsing and we are adding more burdens to it? Anyways, it is not over. This will be repealed, maybe by the Supreme Court!!!!

[Guest]

ijusluvit, your observation, "The process by which health care reform occurred is better described as open and egalitarian..." really speaks volumes about your views and what happened when the healthcare bill was passed.

The definition of the word "egalitarian,' when used in the philosophical sense you used to describe the process, is:

At a cultural level, egalitarian theories have developed in sophistication and acceptance during the past two hundred years. Among the notable broadly egalitarian philosophies are socialism, communism, anarchism, left-libertarianism, and progressivism, all of which propound economic, political, and legal egalitarianism, respectively.
"It holds that all people should be treated as equals and have the same political, economic, social, and civil rights[2] or as a social philosophy advocating the removal of economic inequalities among people."

Very telling indeed. I don't even need to go into your apparent approval of strong arm tactics to force a view.

Like a good little soldier ijusluvit, your words speak loudly, "I confidently predict, while many of us are still living, the new law will be judged another important step in our nation's progress."

[Guest]

ijusluvit, your observation, "The process by which health care reform occurred is better described as open and egalitarian..." really speaks volumes about your views and what happened when the healthcare bill was passed.

The definition of the word "egalitarian,' when used in the philosophical sense you used to describe the process, is:

At a cultural level, egalitarian theories have developed in sophistication and acceptance during the past two hundred years. Among the notable broadly egalitarian philosophies are socialism, communism, anarchism, left-libertarianism, and progressivism, all of which propound economic, political, and legal egalitarianism, respectively.
"It holds that all people should be treated as equals and have the same political, economic, social, and civil rights[2] or as a social philosophy advocating the removal of economic inequalities among people."

Very telling indeed. I don't even need to go into your apparent approval of strong arm tactics to force a view.

Like a good little soldier ijusluvit, your words speak loudly, "I confidently predict, while many of us are still living, the new law will be judged another important step in our nation's progress."

Forgive me, I can't get your drift here. My definition of egalitarian is simply "accessible" or "responsive to the public".

[Guest]

You can't have a different definition for a word. Why would you use a word like that and not know what it means?

[Guest]

Forgive me, I can't get your drift here. My definition of egalitarian is simply "accessible" or "responsive to the public".

Egalitarian and equalitarian mean the same thing.

Your poetic license in the use of the word as meaning "responsive to the public" is really beyond any relevance to what Obama did in ignoring the majority of the public's wishes on this horrible bill.

[Guest]

Please allow me to forecast slightly, with the passage of the Health Care Bill, which many have predicted will change the future, I ask.....for he best or worst? And what prevents the absolution and adoption of all the illegal immigrants in our country? The "enlightened liberals" have no concept of fiscal restraint, nor the results of an economy recovering with jobs.

[Guest]

Please allow me to forecast slightly, with the passage of the Health Care Bill, which many have predicted will change the future, I ask.....for he best or worst? And what prevents the absolution and adoption of all the illegal immigrants in our country? The "enlightened liberals" have no concept of fiscal restraint, nor the results of an economy recovering with jobs.

Our President has promised to address the illegal immigrants in this country as his next URGENT item....who knows what this will entail. But one thing for sure, it will give "someone" a lot of votes if done by November !!!

[Guest]

The liberals ( aka democrats) are not reading this because they are busy patting themselves on the back and feeling real good about themselves,sipping their chablis wine and munching on brie cheese. Most are the academia types who never had to toil in the private sector and mostly ignorant on where and how their paychecks came to be.
But they figure the great unwashed will be taken care of and they can go back to their upscale lifestyle and their pursuits without the guilt that drives their ego's.

Meanwhile, small businesses are worried about more expenses and maybe they will have to lay-off more people. The majority of people are puzzled as to how we can add another entitlement to the ones already going bankrupt.
Gee, I bumped into alot of grouchy people today. I guess I hang out with the wrong people.

Donna, you really know how to stereotype!!! I'm puzzled at your disdain for "academia types". Were you not able to attend college? Do you think that all Democrats were handed an education with their trust funds???

My husband worked his way through college, as did I. He did everything from driving a bus to selling hotdogs at Wrigley Field. He became a doctor and had his own practice for 35 years. I have worked since I was 16 years old and worked hard to get myself through college to get my Journalism Degree. I can't for the life of me understand why you think one must be a blue collar worker or drive a tractor to understand Politics. My minor was Poli-Sci.

And before you go on a rant, I am NOT saying there is anything wrong with blue-collar jobs or driving a tractor. My father was a bricklayer all of his life, my mother worked at a Catalog Sales Co., and my cousins have a working farm.

But, your description of "All Democrats" or "Liberals", is not only wrong, but completely bigoted.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to spend a wonderful day with friends from both sides of the aisle. hmmm.... maybe I'll serve Chablis and Brie and see who complains. :mornincoffee:

[Guest]

I think in general, Liberals do tend to be elitists and academics. Given your post taking my Christianity into question I kind of believe it now.

[Guest]

I think in general, Liberals do tend to be elitists and academics. Given your post taking my Christianity into question I kind of believe it now.


I niormally shy away from generalizations of any group but what I have read here and in the general forum referring to those opposed as either non christian, non giving...not caring, etc is very troubling. I would never ever pretend to make that kind of judgement on an individual !

I am amazed at the "caring" "giving" folks who have either implied or said those things as they have no idea of how I live my life...to whom I give...to whom I give care or my financial situation and to me, those comments really hurt and there were many of that type preaching and emitting that "holier than thou" attitude !

To talk about folks who oppose this health bill as people who are "selfish",
"greedy" or folks of the "I" generation is so unfair it belies the christian attitude they then profess and preach !

[Guest]

Donna, you really know how to stereotype!!! I'm puzzled at your disdain for "academia types". Were you not able to attend college? Do you think that all Democrats were handed an education with their trust funds???

My husband worked his way through college, as did I. He did everything from driving a bus to selling hotdogs at Wrigley Field. He became a doctor and had his own practice for 35 years. I have worked since I was 16 years old and worked hard to get myself through college to get my Journalism Degree. I can't for the life of me understand why you think one must be a blue collar worker or drive a tractor to understand Politics. My minor was Poli-Sci.

And before you go on a rant, I am NOT saying there is anything wrong with blue-collar jobs or driving a tractor. My father was a bricklayer all of his life, my mother worked at a Catalog Sales Co., and my cousins have a working farm.

But, your description of "All Democrats" or "Liberals", is not only wrong, but completely bigoted.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to spend a wonderful day with friends from both sides of the aisle. hmmm.... maybe I'll serve Chablis and Brie and see who complains. :mornincoffee:

Me thinks you protest too much?chilout

[Guest]

Me thinks you protest too much?chilout

Not at all. Just stating my opinion. :)

[Guest]

I think in general, Liberals do tend to be elitists and academics. Given your post taking my Christianity into question I kind of believe it now.

DK, let's make one thing perfectly clear. I was not commenting on YOUR Christianity. I was making an observation as a Christian myself. :read:

[Guest]

You can't have a different definition for a word. Why would you use a word like that and not know what it means?

Again, I can't figure out what the heck you are trying to say. Would it satisfy you if I said the process in developing the health care was "clean" as opposed to "dirty".

[Guest]

Again, I can't figure out what the heck you are trying to say. Would it satisfy you if I said the process in developing the health care was "clean" as opposed to "dirty".

That would be untrue because it was a very dirty process.

[Guest]

Cashman,
You're a little bit behind here. Why not read the comments above explaining why the process was "clean" and try responding to them.

[Guest]

ijusluvit, all I was saying was your words speak loudly of your Progressive views. That's all. Nothing more. Nothing less. Since this is a written forum, I was just writing my thoughts when I read your post. This person is a Progressive is all I was saying.

Some people have faith in the US Constitution and the beliefs and values that our founding fathers intended for our great country. Progressives don't. Call the process whatever you want and change definitions of words to suit yourself. It doesn't change the fact of what is happening to this country and the Progressive path leaders in Washington are taking it on.

[Guest]

ijusluvit, all I was saying was your words speak loudly of your Progressive views. That's all. Nothing more. Nothing less. Since this is a written forum, I was just writing my thoughts when I read your post. This person is a Progressive is all I was saying.

Some people have faith in the US Constitution and the beliefs and values that our founding fathers intended for our great country. Progressives don't. Call the process whatever you want and change definitions of words to suit yourself. It doesn't change the fact of what is happening to this country and the Progressive path leaders in Washington are taking it on.

Yes, they are taking us down the old Euro path that we escaped from and we then formed a constitution to keep us away. Instead of free men (women) they want us back to the system of the "betters" telling us what is right and wrong. Why do you suppose they don't teach these things in public (government) schools?

[Guest]

If the electorate is as energized as the news reports and polls indicate, they will reverse a long-repeated pattern of re-electing about 95% of the people in Congress when they run. If the public really is excited, they will reverse the tide and maybe even give the Republicans the majority in the House and Senate.

Then the fun will begin--or be renewed, whatever the case may be.

Then we'll see how the criticisms of how government operated reverse course. Can we expect the GOP to begin to use the legislative rule maneuvering used by the Democrats recently? Of course we can, they've done exactly that before. Can we expect the Democrats to become the new "party of no"? A resounding "yes" to that question, as well.

How will our bitter criticism of how "the other guys" cheated and stole to accomplish their political objectives change? That'll be fun to watch. All the same folks here are likely to flip-flop in making the arguments currently being made. That's really going to be fun to watch.

It will make for a continuation of the lousy governance we've experienced in the country for all too long. But if we can maintain a sense of humor about it--it'll be fun to watch. After all, what else can we do except try as best we can to maintain a sense of humor?

[Guest]

Ya right. After we go broke and the system shuts down, we can laugh our way to the Looney Bin.:MOJE_whot: