Are we Number One?

[Guest]

It was this post in another thread that prompted me:


The Liberal attitude is again clearly exposed. Liberals think the USA is inferior to other countries.

Why not leave our country if you do not like it.

Your distaste for the private sector is so obvious you would no doubt be happier in one of the great socialist countries.


Liberals may think that we're inferior to other countries. Why would that be?

Because we are.

We used to be at the top of so many categories. Granted some of that came about because of the simple fact that every other industrialized nation in the world had been bombed out (WWII).

Our life expectancy is less than other countries - we now are bordering on "top of the 3rd world" status.

We used to have the best cars. Not now. (Though we seem poised for a comeback)

Fastest trains. Not now.

Best airlines. Not now.

Tallest building. Not now.

Smartest kids. Not now.

Best health care. Not now.

Our infrastructure is falling apart (the entire greater Boston area is under 'boil water' orders) while the Chinese are on a building boom. When the I-35 bridge in Minnesota collapsed, the Chinese were *shocked*. They couldn't believe this happened to us. Estimates at repairing our failing infrastructure start at a couple trillion dollars and go up from there.

We complain about being addicted to oil and yet it take NINE YEARS to get federal approval for an offshore wind farm that would supply 75% of Cape Cod's electrical needs because of the VIEW? And when that gets debunked they convince Native American tribes that there's an ancestral burying ground out there (because of where the shoreline was - I'm not making this up - 10,000 years ago) and that the wind farm will interfere with tribal sunrise rituals????? (Oh, and it suppose to endanger air traffic as well, even though it's dozens of miles form the nearest airport)

We are a fading empire. It's not too late to change things - not by a long shot. But when you have people ignoring reality, sticking with sloganeering instead of looking at ourselves with an honest set of eyes - nothing will happen.

As an example, let's look at the federal gas tax. It started out at 4 cents per gallon in 1956. This was enough to build and maintain the Interstate Highways - as designed back in the late 1950s. Now it's 18.4 cents per gallon. If adjusted for inflation alone (since 1956) it should be 28.3 cents. However, what isn't accounted for is the increased efficiency of cars since that time period. In other words, the commuter in 1956 was burning FAR more gasoline than in 2010. Given that, in 1956, it was not uncommon to get less than 9 MPG (I can only find references to individual models - I've yet to find estimates for what overall average MPG stats were in the 50s and 60s) it wouldn't be a push to say that we're averaging burning half the gas for the same jobs that we were 50 years ago - so the same person would be paying half the tax as they would be paying (per mile).


Now we don't even want to hike taxes to pay for the things we've already built - never mind building new, better, greater things.

Why should I leave my country? I am *damn* proud to be an American. What's wrong with trying to make it better (or at least trying to stop the slide)?

As much as taxes take a chunk out of my salary, it's hard to argue with the numbers that show us being taxed less (as a percentage of GDP) than any of our 'peers'. What I'd love to see is a comparison of government spending 'efficiency' - as in what countries waste how much. We read a lot of reports on waste here, but I'd like to see how we rank amongst other countries.

[Guest]

Where do you get these "ratings?" Many "ratings" are skewed by tricky calculations.

Constant propaganda from social elites about European superiority filtered down from Ivy towers. I find it amusing that people will tell us that we should be like the ones that we left behind (ran away from) many years ago.
Liberal elites attempt to make the name "American" a dirty word. We are constantly being beaten down with garbage talk of be inferior. Hogwash is my response. We need real leaders and not idiots apologizing for our greatness.

[Guest]

As much as it grieves me to agree with you djplong, I must admit we share more positives than negatives on the points you made. We seem to be able to deftly shoot ourselves quite well in each foot, and put our mouths where others fear to treat, even though we cannot back our talk up now. Yes, there was a time when America "spoke softly and carried a big stick," now we are the whipping boy of many countries and being led by a pack of progressive liberals who absolutely could care less what the people of America really want. It is enough to make one's blood boil.:ohdear:

[Guest]

Your post has really made me think djplong. Inferior to other countries. That is quite a statement.

What countries are superior to the United States of America? Many questions come into my mind reading the list you put together that show this country's deficiencies. Most, if not all, are government run and/or highly controlled. Schools, airlines, transportation, energy... As for health care, we've already had this discussion on the very controversial source of world health care info.

If America is so lowly rated and inferior when ranked against "our peers" why are people flocking to this country for refuge? I suppose it is each individual's definition of greatness. I think the founding principles and liberties that this country was created on are the basis that make this the greatest country on earth. Free enterprise which makes for the pursuit of happiness, due process, speedy trails, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, the right to vote for our representatives, the right to protect ourselves and our counrty, .... "In Order to form a more perfect Union" not a perfect. That is the utopian dream that sucks people into believing everyone is equal and life can be perfect. That isn't based on reality.

Try having this conversation on a computer in China.

[Guest]

and make it sound/appear credible.

While there most certainly has been degradation because of we the people accepting mediocre politicians for representatives.
From the industrial revolution forward to today we have peaked and because of the mediocrity and stupid politics along with permissive pacifism and a silent majority that is happy as long as gas is not $4 a gallon....we have degraded and continue on that slope.
As a nation as manufacturing grew the USA prospered. What we are seeing now is the political agendas no longer include and future planning....NONE....just look at energy issues and infrastructure...criminal.
On top of that we have farmed out most of our manufacturing to those countries some think are better than the USA. We are an entitlement based service society with NOBODY in charge and the silent majority, while stirring, is still in an apathetic stupor.

We the people are allowing the dolts who run our country (very loose terminology!!!!) to get away with doing nothing but make speeches...get a pat on the head with a promise or two.....then wait for the next big crisis to flare up and then TALK about it....some more.

And for the narrow partisan scale crowd this cannot be neatly compartmentalized into one administration or another's watch.....it has been going on for scores of years....I hate to impede the limited scope but that's the way it is.

I agree we are lessor in some areas than in the past, however inferior is not an appropriate adjective to be used in describing the greatest country on earth.....IT JUST IS NOT!!!!

btk

[Guest]

Donna, the "ratings" may be slightly skewed, depending on how you count but...

When you come up 37th in "health care", it doesn't matter that you might be able to skew the numbers a little better (like how our infant mortality rate looks a bit worse than it really should be because we try to save more preemies - other countries count 'live births' differently).

Study after study is showing our inferiority in education.

At least with manufacturing, it isn't all bad - the value of our exports keep rising. Yes, jobs are going overseas but there ARE jobs staying here and they are more efficient these days than in days past.

Only in this country could the "Obamacare" program be called "socialized medicine" when all the money will be going to the insurance companies.

It's like some weird version of "1984" with it's own kind of "Newspeak".

Screaming about 'socialized medicine' ignores life-expectancy statistics. It doesn't necesarily mean that certain European models are 'the best' (since France and Switzerland have combine public/private models that seems to rank higher than ours).

I mean, come on, only now, 9 years later, is there FINALLY some stell going up at Ground Zero.

We've known that suckling on the oil teat is a national security nightmare for DECADES now - you would have thought that 1973 would have been a wake up call but it wasn't. 1980? Another blip.

[Guest]

If "education" you mean public schools with unionized "teachers" then you will get no argument from me. Teacher's unions have diminished learning to it's lowest common denominator. I would not put a child in government school if you paid me.
I do not trust these so-called studies. We have great hospitals and clinics. We have outstanding research. We need to elevate our health care and not dilute it for mass distribution.

[Guest]

So what countries are superior?

[Guest]

as measured by what????

An off the wall example? In country XYZ they proudly speak to the fact that their food is government inspected....but never do they tell you it all failed!!!!!!!!

Sorta like the game of hitting the wall with a bullet and painting the target around the bullet with it centered in the bulls eye.

btk

[Guest]

When our Country is bashed by Liberals with false data we are in serious trouble and we need to begin to correct this in November.

Just take one piece of data and think about it without just quoting left wing web sites.

Try life expectancy. You cannot compare the USA with other countries where
the criteria used is not the same as ours. Child survival rates are computed differently in the USA than anywhere else.

Also the USA keeps better records than nearly every other country in the world and in particular Liberal Socialist Progressive ones.

[Guest]

Anyone can slant any data without much effort.

For example, people seem to be in disbelief about the whole "US is #37 in health care" ranlking because it was a UN agency that put it out - and even so, admitted that some countries measure things a little differently. But then you get some itneresting statistics that even account for that.

Try this on for size from http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36837265/ns/health-health_care/


A healthy 19-year-old Canadian can expect to have 52 more years of perfect health versus 49.3 more years for Americans.


So there's an example of trying to compare apples to apples.

If the response is to stick one's head in the sand and say it's all false, then I'd ask how that person knows it's false.

If one wanted to slant numbers the other way, I'm sure a study would find that the United States is number one in the industrialized world in per capita medical bankruptcies.

Have you considered that what you call "Liberals bashing America" might be "Patriots raising the alarm about conditions in America"?

I don't agree with the Liberal "government is the first, best solution" attitude. But to say that there aren't problems is sheer folly.

[Guest]

What countries are superior?

Of course there are problems. But more government isn't always the solution.

[Guest]

It was this post in another thread that prompted me:



Liberals may think that we're inferior to other countries. Why would that be?

Because we are.

We used to be at the top of so many categories. Granted some of that came about because of the simple fact that every other industrialized nation in the world had been bombed out (WWII).

Our life expectancy is less than other countries - we now are bordering on "top of the 3rd world" status.

We used to have the best cars. Not now. (Though we seem poised for a comeback)

Fastest trains. Not now.

Best airlines. Not now.

Tallest building. Not now.

Smartest kids. Not now.

Best health care. Not now.

Our infrastructure is falling apart (the entire greater Boston area is under 'boil water' orders) while the Chinese are on a building boom. When the I-35 bridge in Minnesota collapsed, the Chinese were *shocked*. They couldn't believe this happened to us. Estimates at repairing our failing infrastructure start at a couple trillion dollars and go up from there.

We complain about being addicted to oil and yet it take NINE YEARS to get federal approval for an offshore wind farm that would supply 75% of Cape Cod's electrical needs because of the VIEW? And when that gets debunked they convince Native American tribes that there's an ancestral burying ground out there (because of where the shoreline was - I'm not making this up - 10,000 years ago) and that the wind farm will interfere with tribal sunrise rituals????? (Oh, and it suppose to endanger air traffic as well, even though it's dozens of miles form the nearest airport)

We are a fading empire. It's not too late to change things - not by a long shot. But when you have people ignoring reality, sticking with sloganeering instead of looking at ourselves with an honest set of eyes - nothing will happen.

As an example, let's look at the federal gas tax. It started out at 4 cents per gallon in 1956. This was enough to build and maintain the Interstate Highways - as designed back in the late 1950s. Now it's 18.4 cents per gallon. If adjusted for inflation alone (since 1956) it should be 28.3 cents. However, what isn't accounted for is the increased efficiency of cars since that time period. In other words, the commuter in 1956 was burning FAR more gasoline than in 2010. Given that, in 1956, it was not uncommon to get less than 9 MPG (I can only find references to individual models - I've yet to find estimates for what overall average MPG stats were in the 50s and 60s) it wouldn't be a push to say that we're averaging burning half the gas for the same jobs that we were 50 years ago - so the same person would be paying half the tax as they would be paying (per mile).


Now we don't even want to hike taxes to pay for the things we've already built - never mind building new, better, greater things.

Why should I leave my country? I am *damn* proud to be an American. What's wrong with trying to make it better (or at least trying to stop the slide)?

As much as taxes take a chunk out of my salary, it's hard to argue with the numbers that show us being taxed less (as a percentage of GDP) than any of our 'peers'. What I'd love to see is a comparison of government spending 'efficiency' - as in what countries waste how much. We read a lot of reports on waste here, but I'd like to see how we rank amongst other countries.

Tell us, where are you moving to?

Yoda

[Guest]

Interesting choice.

See problems with the country and move - or see problems with the country and vote to fix them (even if my candidates never win).

So, Yoda, tell me why you're such a quitter? You'll just sit here and put up with the decline of the country?

Now - do you see how ridiculous the previous statements sound?

[Guest]

Interesting choice.

See problems with the country and move - or see problems with the country and vote to fix them (even if my candidates never win).

So, Yoda, tell me why you're such a quitter? You'll just sit here and put up with the decline of the country?

Now - do you see how ridiculous the previous statements sound?

I think Yoda was being facetious. I could be presumptuous but I think people are tired of the constant put-downs of the USA from media sources and elites who love to degrade us and elevate Europe and other countries. Seems that being proud of your country and it's achievements is not chic now a days.
WE have a person in the White House who likes to apologize instead of inspire. Thuggery and back door deals instead of the transparency we were promised. His constant put downs of our traditions and heritages.
I think Yoda and most patriots are saying that we need citizens to be proud of who we are as Americans and if you aren't, get the heck out and find a country that is of your liking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

The number one Country in the world that everyone wants to visit or live in or get medical attention from is the good old USA.

If you want to debate that stop quoting Liberal web sites and start naming the Countries you find better and explain why we have such demand for our Medical services if they are so much better.

You must have forgotten that even the Newfounfland Prime Minister came to the USA for his recent surgery. Maybe that fact did not appear anywhere but on
Fox News.

[Guest]

Apparently, I won't get an answer to my question - what countries are superior?

Playing devil's advocate, I will say that djplong's opinion is true that America isn't the great nation is once was. My next question to work toward a solution is: why? Why isn't the United States of America the once great nation it was?

In order for me to logically discuss the question, I have to understand and agree that America was once a great nation. If I do agree with this, then I must ask what made America a great nation to begin with. In order to understand this demiss that djplong's theory rests on, we must assume that, at one time this nation was a great country.

What made us great enough in the first place to navigate toward this downward spin djplong assumes we are on?

What made this country the land of opportunity for many people, people of diverse nationalities, diverse values and opinions a nation that produced the greatest prosperity the world has ever seen?

Before we can agree to discuss djplong's opinion, we must understand what liberties and freedoms made this country great in the first place. What system and enterprise intertwined with politics allowed us to once be the great nation we once were.

If we work with this principle, we can rebuild this country. If you go outside of the confines of our Constitution, you are trying to remake what made us great and I agree with Yoda to the extent of asking what state are you going to move to.

[Guest]

Donna,it's not constant never was constant and never will be constant.You just aren't telling the truth. I only know of one person who constntly bashes the U.S and thats the guy from Iran. To say Obama does it constantly is simply a lie. Again your objectivity is clouded by hate.

[Guest]

Donna,it's not constant never was constant and never will be constant.You just aren't telling the truth. I only know of one person who constntly bashes the U.S and thats the guy from Iran. To say Obama does it constantly is simply a lie. Again your objectivity is clouded by hate.

Waynet,

There is the obvious bashing and there is the more subtle bashing. Many of his beliefs and opinions are a form of bashing. When you are against things that have worked for over 200 years, well, what can I say?
If you really want, I can make a long list of things that is anti-American that he condones.
You are either naive or just don't listen to the bashing that liberals and so-called progressives do on a daily basis.

[Guest]

subtle bashing????what the heck is that? his beliefs and opinions are a form of bashing? What he believes cannot be bashing and what might those beliefs be? what things is he against and I need proof and finally yes I want a list of anti-American things he stands for.

[Guest]

I think my basic problem with this entire thread is the word INFERIOR

This country may not rank #1 in all areas no matter how it is scored, but inferior ?

BKCUNNINGHAM keeps askiing....."What countries are superior?" to no avail...NOT ONE SINGLE response to that question.

I never looked at my country and tried to rank it anywhere. It is, to me, the best country in the world..bar none ! I wouldnt trade this for anywhere on earth.

DJPLONG wants to list for some reason our "ranking" in areas, albeit in the context of what someone said about "Liberals think the USA is inferior to other countries." but continues to say...."Liberals may think that we're inferior to other countries. Why would that be?

Because we are."


Again, not #1....ok.....not the leading country in all areas...ok......needs work in lots of areas....ok....BUT NEVER INFERIOR !

It bothers me that folks could even think that ! This is the greatest country in the world...the most giving of people and the home country that educates all those smart folks in other countries...this is the country where the rest of the world looks at for direction whether it is correct or not.

To those who think it is inferior...I just dont know what to say.

[Guest]

Inferior is a very harsh word. I for one do not think of the U.S. as inferior. I do think we can improve in some areas(alternative energies) but I also think we can teach the rest of the world lots of things also. I see no need to be #1 in all areas anyhow. I don't even know what that means. I do think we need to take care of our citizens old and young a little better and this is where the differences of opinion come in. Even though those differences can be great we must never stop trying to make this the best place on earth.

[Guest]

Inferior is a very harsh word. I for one do not think of the U.S. as inferior. I do think we can improve in some areas(alternative energies) but I also think we can teach the rest of the world lots of things also. I see no need to be #1 in all areas anyhow. I don't even know what that means. I do think we need to take care of our citizens old and young a little better and this is where the differences of opinion come in. Even though those differences can be great we must never stop trying to make this the best place on earth.

I agree with some of what you said but draw the line for the Nanny State. The USA was once known as the land of opportunity and independence. Too many people now think that they are owed something. Everybody has their hand out. This dependent attitude instead of independent attitude will bring down Nations. Ask Greece.

[Guest]

I have lived in Europe and the Far East. While I enjoyed both experiences the USA is far superior to any other country. If it wasn't people wouldn't be trying to get here, legally or illegally.

[Guest]

:mademyday: Great post, Yoda.


Here is a good video about America.



http://www.pjtv.com/v/3492

[Guest]

Cashman - you make my point for me.

First, it wasn't the Canadian Prime Minister. It was the Premier of Newfoundland (equivalent to a U.S. governor) Danny Williams. Secondly, yes, he came to the U.S. BECAUSE HE WAS WEALTHY AND COULD AFFORD IT.

I will completely agree with you 100% that we have the best (and most expensive) health care delivery system in the world IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT.

Again, my own experience in Montreal showed the stark differences. For the same procedures in the United States that cost over $2000, I was charged just over $500 in Montreal and I got virtually identical quality of care. If Williams wants to "jump the line" on his own dime, that's his right.

bkcunningham1: This country is doing what every "Great Empire" does sooner or later - it rests on it's laurels. It enjoys the fruits of it's labor. Eventually it gets lazy (perhaps a poor choice of words but it's all I can think of at the moment).

We complain that we're taxed too high when numbers show the opposite (when compared to other countries) and the anger goes to the wrong place (protesting in D.C. when federal taxes go down instead of in all the state capitols where taxes ARE going up).

We won't pay to maintain our infrastructure.

We can't even agree to sacrifice a LITTLE (if you can call it a sacrifice) for something like wind farms to help us get off the Middle East Ransom. Or, maybe more accurately, we allow a few nutjobs to be completely effective in their obstructionist goals.

We argue for 8 years over what to do with Ground Zero.

Our great public works projects are either put off indefinitely or built to some pretty shoddy standards (Boston's Big Dig).

We can't improve the schools because, among other reasons, teacher's unions won't allow a meritocracy.

We can't improve the government because civil service rules are the same way.

...and don't get me started on the TSA.

We used to have faith in our government - and it did good things, great things. Tell me - do you think for one minute we could build the Hoover Dam today? If we didn't have rail lines going through our cities, do you think we could have Grand Central, Penn Station or any of the country's Union Stations today with the way environmentalists are? Could we so much as invent the automobile now?

Somewhere between 1963 and 1974 it all started to fall apart. The Kennedy assassination, the Vietnam War, Watergate... Our opinion of D.C. has changed.

Make no mistake. One area where I believe we are still the best in the world, bar none, is possibilities.

There's nothing we can't do here with the right amount of will. I'm not saying steamroll over everything, but things like the Cape Wind project demonstrate our problems. Years of reviews, plans, wasted money on studies, etc. They're finally ready to build. What happens? Some of the NIMBYs convince a local Native american tribe that there MIGHT be a 10,000 year old burial ground out there - and that the wind turbines MIGHT "interfere" with their sunrise rituals.

No. After 8 (now 9) years of arguing against it, you LOST. ENOUGH. You go home and wait to find out that your life will be like Mull, MA (who built a wind turbine and haven't seen their electrical rates increase in some 10 years).

If you buy a house near an old rail line, you don't get to argue against it when they want to run commuter trains on it.

There comes a time when you have to say it's time for the wackjobs to shut up and get out of the way.

[Guest]

Your nutjob that opposed the wind farms was the left's hero, Ted(the swimmer) Kennedy. He has to be the biggest hypocrite(among other things) in history. He didn't want view obstructed form his compound or sailing routes.


Your reference to lazy is spot on. Americans have become spoiled and dependent, which is very sad because we were once known as the land of opportunity and independence.

[Guest]

Yes, Ted Kennedy was, for a while, the lead nutjob on the anti-Cape-Wind crusade. At first, he led the pack of blue bloods that complained about the way it would look. Eventually even Walter Cronkite abandoned that crew as he saw the benefits of Cape Wind. Kennedy and those others opposed, however, kept scrambling around to find another reason when the "unpleasant view" position got ridiculed in the press. Imagine someone living under the Tobin Bridge (which cuts through Chelsea like an elevated scar) hearing his senator whine about the view...

Reason after reason has been invented - and they even dragged Native American tribes into it now.

It has REALLY demonstrated the hypocrisy of some.

[Guest]

It seem that my last question to you has been deleted because it was rude.

I will rephrase it.

Who is NUMBER ONE? Can you tell us?

Affectionately,

Yoda

[Guest]

Define the question.

Ok, that's oversimplifying. But here's what I mean.

Who are you? What do you want? "Number One" is subjective if you're just going to lump everything into one sound-bite-sized basket.

I'm sure you've seen those articles about "best place to live" or Rand McNally's old "Places Rated Almanac". They take a shopping cart full of variables, rank each place on them and then churn the numbers through a formula. Money magazine did the same things and proclaimed that Nashua NH (the city next to where I live) as the best place to live in 1987 and 1997.

So I'll ask you - "Number One" at what? ...and for whom?

My first wife seems to think Canada is the place to be. She's got 3 kids, the middle one is about to graduate and as soon as that happens, she's moving there with the youngest. She likes the health care, reduced stress and the fact that she'll be getting back together with the father of her youngest.

My best friend came here legally from South Africa (though you'd swear he was from London). He jokes about being an "African American" when his skin complexion resembles that of copier paper :) He jumped through all the flaming hoops to go through the process to become a citizen. For him, safety (crime was exploding in South Africa) and opportunity were paramount.

For me, I wouldn't permanently move anywhere else. Sure, I want to travel internationally - and I finally get my chance later this year. That doesn't mean I think my country is perfect. No matter how good, there is ALWAYS room for improvement.

Again, it's subjective. Take universities - since people like to point out that, by most measures, we still have the best universities (as a whole) in the world. Now look at tuition inflation, professors protected by tenure who make 6 figures and work 10-12 hours a week and drawing that salary from the backs of those who can least afford it (the proitotypical 'starving college student'). Overall, is that better than, say, Costa Rica where everyone gets a college education? My oldest daughter could NEVER have gone to college if it weren't for the $15,000/semester in scholarships she got from the school. My younger daughter, who's grades were still good but not quite as good, has no such prospect.

What if you love to drive? Is the wide-open U.S. the best (except where there are traffic jams) or is it Germany where you can go as fast as you want on the autobahn?

What if you came down with cancer and your health insurance company just cancelled your insurance?

Those are all subjective. There are things that can be measured objectively (like the life-expectancy stats I quoted yesterday, or things like military and health-care expenditures). You can say "most expensive" or "cheapest" for a lot of things.

But you're asking a subjective question. So I'll ask you - "Number One" by what measure?

As far as I'm concerned, I'll repeat what I said to my fiancee this past weekend. In my opinion, the United States is still the country that exists under the best of all practical possibilities. But, like our forefathers, we have to WORK and PLAN to make it so. We have to get off the oil drug, have a comprehensive transportation and energy plan - after all that's what helped us get to our position. We need to find a way to stop wasting so much money (i.e. objectively, we pay more for health care than anyone, subjectively, we're not getting what we pay for by a lot of metrics). We need to talk more and shout less. We need to think more long-term instead of Next Quarter. We need to hold corporations responsible for their actions instead of bailing them out.

Yes, we're still known as The Land Of Opportunity - but you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see how much more difficult that is.

[Guest]

Define the question.

Ok, that's oversimplifying. But here's what I mean.

Who are you? What do you want? "Number One" is subjective if you're just going to lump everything into one sound-bite-sized basket.

I'm sure you've seen those articles about "best place to live" or Rand McNally's old "Places Rated Almanac". They take a shopping cart full of variables, rank each place on them and then churn the numbers through a formula. Money magazine did the same things and proclaimed that Nashua NH (the city next to where I live) as the best place to live in 1987 and 1997.

So I'll ask you - "Number One" at what? ...and for whom?

My first wife seems to think Canada is the place to be. She's got 3 kids, the middle one is about to graduate and as soon as that happens, she's moving there with the youngest. She likes the health care, reduced stress and the fact that she'll be getting back together with the father of her youngest.

My best friend came here legally from South Africa (though you'd swear he was from London). He jokes about being an "African American" when his skin complexion resembles that of copier paper :) He jumped through all the flaming hoops to go through the process to become a citizen. For him, safety (crime was exploding in South Africa) and opportunity were paramount.

For me, I wouldn't permanently move anywhere else. Sure, I want to travel internationally - and I finally get my chance later this year. That doesn't mean I think my country is perfect. No matter how good, there is ALWAYS room for improvement.

Again, it's subjective. Take universities - since people like to point out that, by most measures, we still have the best universities (as a whole) in the world. Now look at tuition inflation, professors protected by tenure who make 6 figures and work 10-12 hours a week and drawing that salary from the backs of those who can least afford it (the proitotypical 'starving college student'). Overall, is that better than, say, Costa Rica where everyone gets a college education? My oldest daughter could NEVER have gone to college if it weren't for the $15,000/semester in scholarships she got from the school. My younger daughter, who's grades were still good but not quite as good, has no such prospect.

What if you love to drive? Is the wide-open U.S. the best (except where there are traffic jams) or is it Germany where you can go as fast as you want on the autobahn?

What if you came down with cancer and your health insurance company just cancelled your insurance?

Those are all subjective. There are things that can be measured objectively (like the life-expectancy stats I quoted yesterday, or things like military and health-care expenditures). You can say "most expensive" or "cheapest" for a lot of things.

But you're asking a subjective question. So I'll ask you - "Number One" by what measure?

As far as I'm concerned, I'll repeat what I said to my fiancee this past weekend. In my opinion, the United States is still the country that exists under the best of all practical possibilities. But, like our forefathers, we have to WORK and PLAN to make it so. We have to get off the oil drug, have a comprehensive transportation and energy plan - after all that's what helped us get to our position. We need to find a way to stop wasting so much money (i.e. objectively, we pay more for health care than anyone, subjectively, we're not getting what we pay for by a lot of metrics). We need to talk more and shout less. We need to think more long-term instead of Next Quarter. We need to hold corporations responsible for their actions instead of bailing them out.

Yes, we're still known as The Land Of Opportunity - but you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see how much more difficult that is.

You seem to want to do anything but answer the question? Now you want to ask more questions to prove your theory.

Your entire tirade seemed aimed at convincing us that The United States is no longer the number one place in the world to live. You did not qualify your tirade by saying who has replaced the U.S. as #1.

In response to your assertions, I asked who, in your opinion is now number one. There has to be a quantifiable and quantifiable number one if the United States is no longer.

Either your answer will be the Name of the new #1 nation or that you do not know of one that is better.

Yoda

[Guest]

Yoda, I ask for specifics and you accuse me of evading the question.

I'll ask you - "What is best?"

There is NO objective way to answer the question - it depends on who you are.

Take note of what I said earlier - areas where the United States demonstrated supremacy are now areas where we are no longer in the leader's position by any measure I can find.

Again - define the question. If you are capable of something deeper than sound-bite sloganeering, and I think you are, it shouldn't be that hard to define.

"The World" is not a sports league where games are measured and standings kept in one concise, inch-long article that can be gleaned in a glance.

What's more important to you?

If it's communications connectivity, then countries like South Korea, Iceland, Finland and, quite frankly, most of Europe are eating our lunch. (I could go on for quite a while in how our communications corporations are scraming to avoid the very thing that has made Europe's internet serive so much better than ours - AND WE INVENTED IT!!!)

Is affordable health care most important to you? Then we're pretty much last in the industrialized world. But if it's health-care-at-any-cost, then, yeah, we're the best there is.

What about transportation? One could argue that it's the very artery of commerce. But our ttransportation infrastructure is in pretty dire shape. Still, it's not too late to do something about it. But I can imagine the nightmare that would happen if Mt. Ranier blows it's stack and an ash cloud closes every airport form Seattle to Chicago. We don't have a railroad infrastructure to help get passengers to where they're going. You think Europe was hassled by the Icelandic volcano? Just wait and see if it happens here.

So how do you define "Number One"?

Life expectancy? Infant mortality? Number of gold medals in the Olympics? Military budget?

Financial markets? Not very long ago, London supplanted New York City as the perceived leader.

Maybe it's housing afordability - but even then, what kind of housing?

You're asking a question in a way that has no answer.

[Guest]

That is how you can distinguish a liberal from a conservative.

Ask a conservative on who's country is number one and 90 % of the time you will get USA.

Aska liberal who's number one and 90% of the time the answer is BS.:swear:

[Guest]

That is how you can distinguish a liberal from a conservative.

Ask a conservative on who's country is number one and 90 % of the time you will get USA.

Aska liberal who's number one and 90% of the time the answer is BS.:swear:

Donna2 I think I figured it out.

It's like grade school sports/ Nobody wins it was a tie. Don't hurt antibody's feelings. No big red F for failure.

Liberals will destroy this country just as they did in Greece.

USA is number one without argument until someone claims a new number one.

Yoda

[Guest]

Americans KNOW the USA is far and away the best place on earth to be a citizen of (poor English?).

If one has ANY doubts, in my narrow minded opinion, and they are trying to figure where else in the world is better, then they need to move on.

Even with our crooked politicians at any level you want to discuss, including out current POTUS, they are momentary self proclaimed idols who have ONLY their own individual best interest as a priority.....it is short lived and sooner or later they will bite the dust....and some one better will come along.

The good old USA is unequivically the best place to be....love it or leave it!!!!!!!

btk

[Guest]

All the Red Blooded Americans I know btk


What color is the blood of the rest of the human species? Maybe homeschooled kids are taught something different than "government" schooled kids.

[Guest]

What color is the blood of the rest of the human species? Maybe homeschooled kids are taught something different than "government" schooled kids.

Depending on who's schooling the home schooled kids. One thing for certain, government school's quality has been sinking for years. If government teachers were paid the equivalent of the quality they produce:censored: But with tenure and unions, they are guaranteed wage increases and exorbitant pensions regardless of the product quality.

Now before someone's nose gets bent out of shape, there are many fine school systems that somehow manage to keep the standards high. But they are the exception and not the rule, in my ever so humble opinion, of course. :duck:

[Guest]

The Roman empire was number 1 and I know all of you can think of a country or empire that had its turn at #1. I think what djplong is trying to say is that our position as #1 is very precarious and we do have major problems that must be addressed if we are to remain #1. Our infrastructure is collapsing...we have lost our economic independence..the lobbyist industry..obesity...the revolving door...using personal funds for campaign purposes...and no term limits....these seem to be the problems most experts say threaten not only #1 but our nation as we know it.

[Guest]

Why does there have to be a Number One or a New Number One?

Is it contrary to being thoughtful to believe that the U.S. is the only place on earth that one would like to live...but that there are some serious issues that are threatening our lifestyle and the future of our kids and grandkids? Can't we be the best and still agree that there are some issues that really need attention?

That's what I believe.

But if someone says "we're number one and that means we're number one in everything"...my reaction is that's complete nonsense.

[Guest]

My position is that simply mouthing a "We're #1" slogan shows a lack of thought.

As I stated before, it's my opinion that, as far as an overall feeling of possibilities and the *capacity* for fixing what ails us and succeeding beyond that, I *do* believe that the United States is the best country in the world. It doesn't mean that we're the 'best' at any one particular thing, or even (at the moment) in a collecting of 'things' (depending on what you choose).

For example, we all know we HAVE to get off the oil addiction. Ignore all the Global Warming / Climate Change arguments for the moment. FACT: We send FAR too much money overseas to goverments that have people who want to kill us. Nobody can argue that.

FACT: Nuclear power is far safer than critics would like people to believe. It also provides for major capacity upgrades in one fell swoop (as opposed to depending on perhaps thousands of homeowners to put up solar panels).

FACT: China is building several thousand miles of high-speed rail lines that are opening within the next 18 months.

FACT: Our airspace is congested leading to many delays that cost money and time. The least profitable routes are typically short-hop routes. The axim in the airline industry is "a plane only makes money when it's in the air"

PROPOSAL: By converting some existing rail lines to electric and building new high-speed lines between major cities, we could reduce congestion on the ground (cars), cut some gas consumption (cars & planes), improve airline on-time performance, stabilize electric prices (that wouldn't be subject to oil/gas price swings as much). Sounds like a WIN/WIN/WIN idea, yes?

PROBLEM: NIMBY. Heck, when they were building the Acela and stringing the electric wire over the tracks from New Haven to Boston, Connecticut NIMBYs tried to block the project claiming EMF emissions would cause them cancer (despite the fact that this didn't happen anywhere from Washington to New Haven which had the electric lines for nearly 100 years).

PROBLEM: BANANA. Can't have a nuke plant no matter how safe ANYWHERE if you listen to some of the activists. Can't dispose of the waste (despite the Yucca Flats solution and new technologies that make use of the waste)

PROBLEM: BUDGET. Oh we can spend $14B on 7 miles of road tunnels in Boston, but to create a network of high-speed lines radiating from Chicago (that would help Midway & O'Hares on-time numbers)? In that area, we've gone from Can-Do to Can't-Do in 40 years. We can spend half a trillion on drugs for seniors, but not a tenth of that to build the line from SF-LA that would get planes out of the sky and cars off the road.

PROBLEM: INTERFERENCE. We've gone from not listening to complainers enough (the human cost of some of our historical construction projects are truly shocking in this day and age) to listening TOO much (like the Cape Wind obstructionists I've mentioned before)

SYMPTOM: Sometimes, we're too nice. We don't want to offend people. We want to give a listen and hear what they have to say. But we're afraid to call a moonbat a moonbat.

We seem to lack the collective will to get things done and defend our positions. (And don't get me started in the role the media plays in this).

Everything I wrote here is just ONE example to demonstrate the problem that infects us in so many places. We're content to sit on our laurels while they rot away underneath us.

With the way the news is, people keep saying we should watch out or we'll end up like Greece. I'm not so sure that's accurate as we deal with crisis (historically) better than they do. You know who we seem to be mirroring? England. Think of England during Victorian times - heck early in the Industrial Revolution, we bought all our steam engines from them! But now they sit on a faded empire, revelling in past glories - though they've managed to keep more of their independence when it comes to the EU.

I still say that we can learn form the successes and mistakes of others, not just ourselves.

[Guest]

You seem to want to do anything but answer the question? Now you want to ask more questions to prove your theory.

Your entire tirade seemed aimed at convincing us that The United States is no longer the number one place in the world to live. You did not qualify your tirade by saying who has replaced the U.S. as #1.

In response to your assertions, I asked who, in your opinion is now number one. There has to be a quantifiable and quantifiable number one if the United States is no longer.

Either your answer will be the Name of the new #1 nation or that you do not know of one that is better.

Yoda

If you can get an answer from Djplong to anything or to back the assertions made you will be the only one to succeed.

I am beginning to think that this one sided approach to a discussion should be simple ignored.

[Guest]

...Sometimes, we're too nice. We don't want to offend people. We want to give a listen and hear what they have to say. But we're afraid to call a moonbat a moonbat....

Well said, DJ.

And we're not willing to call a wingnut a wingnut either, even when they are aggravatingly obvious. There are way too many of them on both sides of the political spectrum.

[Guest]

Why does there have to be a Number One or a New Number One?

Is it contrary to being thoughtful to believe that the U.S. is the only place on earth that one would like to live...but that there are some serious issues that are threatening our lifestyle and the future of our kids and grandkids? Can't we be the best and still agree that there are some issues that really need attention?

That's what I believe.

But if someone says "we're number one and that means we're number one in everything"...my reaction is that's complete nonsense.

Why do we give tests in school? Why do we keep score at games? Can't we just be thoughtful?

Give me a break. It's that thinking that is running down or society.

Yoda

[Guest]

Ok, Yoda, then is THAT what you're talking about when you ask "Who is Number One?" Education scores?

You asked me, in post #13 where I was moving to. In post #29 you said "Who is number one?". I asked you to define the question - 'number one by what metrics'. In post #31 you accused me of being evasive and asked the same quesiton again - again without clarifying. In post #34 you made a blanket "USA is number one without argument" statement - and failed to indicate what you might have been using as a measuring stick. Just now you at least made SOME reference to tests and scores - but still no definition of how you would judge "Number One".

Again - by what metric?

[Guest]

Why does there have to be a Number One or a New Number One?

Is it contrary to being thoughtful to believe that the U.S. is the only place on earth that one would like to live...but that there are some serious issues that are threatening our lifestyle and the future of our kids and grandkids? Can't we be the best and still agree that there are some issues that really need attention?

That's what I believe.

But if someone says "we're number one and that means we're number one in everything"...my reaction is that's complete nonsense.

...Give me a break. It's that thinking that is running down or society....

...Sometimes, we're too nice. We don't want to offend people. We want to give a listen and hear what they have to say. But we're afraid to call a moonbat a moonbat...

...we're not willing to call a wingnut a wingnut either, even when they are aggravatingly obvious....

No further comment needed.

[Guest]

Unfortunately the moonbats have been in power the most through the last century and we'll be joining Greece because of it!!!!

[Guest]

Unfortunately the moonbats have been in power the most through the last century and we'll be joining Greece because of it!!!!Agreed. But maybe instead of "moonbats", like Archie Bunker, I'd call them DINGBATS!

[Guest]

Agreed. But maybe instead of "moonbats", like Archie Bunker, I'd call them DINGBATS!

Yea, and there were many MEATHEADS too. :a20:

[Guest]

Can you be the greatest without being number one.

[Guest]

as measured by what and by whom?

btk