It was this post in another thread that prompted me:

The Liberal attitude is again clearly exposed. Liberals think the USA is inferior to other countries.

Why not leave our country if you do not like it.

Your distaste for the private sector is so obvious you would no doubt be happier in one of the great socialist countries.

Liberals may think that we're inferior to other countries. Why would that be?

Because we are.

We used to be at the top of so many categories. Granted some of that came about because of the simple fact that every other industrialized nation in the world had been bombed out (WWII).

Our life expectancy is less than other countries - we now are bordering on "top of the 3rd world" status.

We used to have the best cars. Not now. (Though we seem poised for a comeback)

Fastest trains. Not now.

Best airlines. Not now.

Tallest building. Not now.

Smartest kids. Not now.

Best health care. Not now.

Our infrastructure is falling apart (the entire greater Boston area is under 'boil water' orders) while the Chinese are on a building boom. When the I-35 bridge in Minnesota collapsed, the Chinese were *shocked*. They couldn't believe this happened to us. Estimates at repairing our failing infrastructure start at a couple trillion dollars and go up from there.

We complain about being addicted to oil and yet it take NINE YEARS to get federal approval for an offshore wind farm that would supply 75% of Cape Cod's electrical needs because of the VIEW? And when that gets debunked they convince Native American tribes that there's an ancestral burying ground out there (because of where the shoreline was - I'm not making this up - 10,000 years ago) and that the wind farm will interfere with tribal sunrise rituals????? (Oh, and it suppose to endanger air traffic as well, even though it's dozens of miles form the nearest airport)

We are a fading empire. It's not too late to change things - not by a long shot. But when you have people ignoring reality, sticking with sloganeering instead of looking at ourselves with an honest set of eyes - nothing will happen.

As an example, let's look at the federal gas tax. It started out at 4 cents per gallon in 1956. This was enough to build and maintain the Interstate Highways - as designed back in the late 1950s. Now it's 18.4 cents per gallon. If adjusted for inflation alone (since 1956) it should be 28.3 cents. However, what isn't accounted for is the increased efficiency of cars since that time period. In other words, the commuter in 1956 was burning FAR more gasoline than in 2010. Given that, in 1956, it was not uncommon to get less than 9 MPG (I can only find references to individual models - I've yet to find estimates for what overall average MPG stats were in the 50s and 60s) it wouldn't be a push to say that we're averaging burning half the gas for the same jobs that we were 50 years ago - so the same person would be paying half the tax as they would be paying (per mile).


Now we don't even want to hike taxes to pay for the things we've already built - never mind building new, better, greater things.

Why should I leave my country? I am *damn* proud to be an American. What's wrong with trying to make it better (or at least trying to stop the slide)?

As much as taxes take a chunk out of my salary, it's hard to argue with the numbers that show us being taxed less (as a percentage of GDP) than any of our 'peers'. What I'd love to see is a comparison of government spending 'efficiency' - as in what countries waste how much. We read a lot of reports on waste here, but I'd like to see how we rank amongst other countries.

Where do you get these "ratings?" Many "ratings" are skewed by tricky calculations.

Constant propaganda from social elites about European superiority filtered down from Ivy towers. I find it amusing that people will tell us that we should be like the ones that we left behind (ran away from) many years ago.
Liberal elites attempt to make the name "American" a dirty word. We are constantly being beaten down with garbage talk of be inferior. Hogwash is my response. We need real leaders and not idiots apologizing for our greatness.

As much as it grieves me to agree with you djplong, I must admit we share more positives than negatives on the points you made. We seem to be able to deftly shoot ourselves quite well in each foot, and put our mouths where others fear to treat, even though we cannot back our talk up now. Yes, there was a time when America "spoke softly and carried a big stick," now we are the whipping boy of many countries and being led by a pack of progressive liberals who absolutely could care less what the people of America really want. It is enough to make one's blood boil.

Your post has really made me think djplong. Inferior to other countries. That is quite a statement.

What countries are superior to the United States of America? Many questions come into my mind reading the list you put together that show this country's deficiencies. Most, if not all, are government run and/or highly controlled. Schools, airlines, transportation, energy... As for health care, we've already had this discussion on the very controversial source of world health care info.

If America is so lowly rated and inferior when ranked against "our peers" why are people flocking to this country for refuge? I suppose it is each individual's definition of greatness. I think the founding principles and liberties that this country was created on are the basis that make this the greatest country on earth. Free enterprise which makes for the pursuit of happiness, due process, speedy trails, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, the right to vote for our representatives, the right to protect ourselves and our counrty, .... "In Order to form a more perfect Union" not a perfect. That is the utopian dream that sucks people into believing everyone is equal and life can be perfect. That isn't based on reality.

Try having this conversation on a computer in China.

and make it sound/appear credible.

While there most certainly has been degradation because of we the people accepting mediocre politicians for representatives.
From the industrial revolution forward to today we have peaked and because of the mediocrity and stupid politics along with permissive pacifism and a silent majority that is happy as long as gas is not $4 a gallon....we have degraded and continue on that slope.
As a nation as manufacturing grew the USA prospered. What we are seeing now is the political agendas no longer include and future planning....NONE....just look at energy issues and infrastructure...criminal.
On top of that we have farmed out most of our manufacturing to those countries some think are better than the USA. We are an entitlement based service society with NOBODY in charge and the silent majority, while stirring, is still in an apathetic stupor.

We the people are allowing the dolts who run our country (very loose terminology!!!!) to get away with doing nothing but make speeches...get a pat on the head with a promise or two.....then wait for the next big crisis to flare up and then TALK about it....some more.

And for the narrow partisan scale crowd this cannot be neatly compartmentalized into one administration or another's watch.....it has been going on for scores of years....I hate to impede the limited scope but that's the way it is.

I agree we are lessor in some areas than in the past, however inferior is not an appropriate adjective to be used in describing the greatest country on earth.....IT JUST IS NOT!!!!

btk

Donna, the "ratings" may be slightly skewed, depending on how you count but...

When you come up 37th in "health care", it doesn't matter that you might be able to skew the numbers a little better (like how our infant mortality rate looks a bit worse than it really should be because we try to save more preemies - other countries count 'live births' differently).

Study after study is showing our inferiority in education.

At least with manufacturing, it isn't all bad - the value of our exports keep rising. Yes, jobs are going overseas but there ARE jobs staying here and they are more efficient these days than in days past.

Only in this country could the "Obamacare" program be called "socialized medicine" when all the money will be going to the insurance companies.

It's like some weird version of "1984" with it's own kind of "Newspeak".

Screaming about 'socialized medicine' ignores life-expectancy statistics. It doesn't necesarily mean that certain European models are 'the best' (since France and Switzerland have combine public/private models that seems to rank higher than ours).

I mean, come on, only now, 9 years later, is there FINALLY some stell going up at Ground Zero.

We've known that suckling on the oil teat is a national security nightmare for DECADES now - you would have thought that 1973 would have been a wake up call but it wasn't. 1980? Another blip.

If "education" you mean public schools with unionized "teachers" then you will get no argument from me. Teacher's unions have diminished learning to it's lowest common denominator. I would not put a child in government school if you paid me.
I do not trust these so-called studies. We have great hospitals and clinics. We have outstanding research. We need to elevate our health care and not dilute it for mass distribution.

So what countries are superior?

as measured by what????

An off the wall example? In country XYZ they proudly speak to the fact that their food is government inspected....but never do they tell you it all failed!!!!!!!!

Sorta like the game of hitting the wall with a bullet and painting the target around the bullet with it centered in the bulls eye.

btk

When our Country is bashed by Liberals with false data we are in serious trouble and we need to begin to correct this in November.

Just take one piece of data and think about it without just quoting left wing web sites.

Try life expectancy. You cannot compare the USA with other countries where
the criteria used is not the same as ours. Child survival rates are computed differently in the USA than anywhere else.

Also the USA keeps better records than nearly every other country in the world and in particular Liberal Socialist Progressive ones.

Anyone can slant any data without much effort.

For example, people seem to be in disbelief about the whole "US is #37 in health care" ranlking because it was a UN agency that put it out - and even so, admitted that some countries measure things a little differently. But then you get some itneresting statistics that even account for that.

Try this on for size from http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36837265...h-health_care/

A healthy 19-year-old Canadian can expect to have 52 more years of perfect health versus 49.3 more years for Americans.

So there's an example of trying to compare apples to apples.

If the response is to stick one's head in the sand and say it's all false, then I'd ask how that person knows it's false.

If one wanted to slant numbers the other way, I'm sure a study would find that the United States is number one in the industrialized world in per capita medical bankruptcies.

Have you considered that what you call "Liberals bashing America" might be "Patriots raising the alarm about conditions in America"?

I don't agree with the Liberal "government is the first, best solution" attitude. But to say that there aren't problems is sheer folly.

What countries are superior?

Of course there are problems. But more government isn't always the solution.

Originally Posted by djplong

It was this post in another thread that prompted me:



Liberals may think that we're inferior to other countries. Why would that be?

Because we are.

We used to be at the top of so many categories. Granted some of that came about because of the simple fact that every other industrialized nation in the world had been bombed out (WWII).

Our life expectancy is less than other countries - we now are bordering on "top of the 3rd world" status.

We used to have the best cars. Not now. (Though we seem poised for a comeback)

Fastest trains. Not now.

Best airlines. Not now.

Tallest building. Not now.

Smartest kids. Not now.

Best health care. Not now.

Our infrastructure is falling apart (the entire greater Boston area is under 'boil water' orders) while the Chinese are on a building boom. When the I-35 bridge in Minnesota collapsed, the Chinese were *shocked*. They couldn't believe this happened to us. Estimates at repairing our failing infrastructure start at a couple trillion dollars and go up from there.

We complain about being addicted to oil and yet it take NINE YEARS to get federal approval for an offshore wind farm that would supply 75% of Cape Cod's electrical needs because of the VIEW? And when that gets debunked they convince Native American tribes that there's an ancestral burying ground out there (because of where the shoreline was - I'm not making this up - 10,000 years ago) and that the wind farm will interfere with tribal sunrise rituals????? (Oh, and it suppose to endanger air traffic as well, even though it's dozens of miles form the nearest airport)

We are a fading empire. It's not too late to change things - not by a long shot. But when you have people ignoring reality, sticking with sloganeering instead of looking at ourselves with an honest set of eyes - nothing will happen.

As an example, let's look at the federal gas tax. It started out at 4 cents per gallon in 1956. This was enough to build and maintain the Interstate Highways - as designed back in the late 1950s. Now it's 18.4 cents per gallon. If adjusted for inflation alone (since 1956) it should be 28.3 cents. However, what isn't accounted for is the increased efficiency of cars since that time period. In other words, the commuter in 1956 was burning FAR more gasoline than in 2010. Given that, in 1956, it was not uncommon to get less than 9 MPG (I can only find references to individual models - I've yet to find estimates for what overall average MPG stats were in the 50s and 60s) it wouldn't be a push to say that we're averaging burning half the gas for the same jobs that we were 50 years ago - so the same person would be paying half the tax as they would be paying (per mile).


Now we don't even want to hike taxes to pay for the things we've already built - never mind building new, better, greater things.

Why should I leave my country? I am *damn* proud to be an American. What's wrong with trying to make it better (or at least trying to stop the slide)?

As much as taxes take a chunk out of my salary, it's hard to argue with the numbers that show us being taxed less (as a percentage of GDP) than any of our 'peers'. What I'd love to see is a comparison of government spending 'efficiency' - as in what countries waste how much. We read a lot of reports on waste here, but I'd like to see how we rank amongst other countries.

Tell us, where are you moving to?

Yoda

Interesting choice.

See problems with the country and move - or see problems with the country and vote to fix them (even if my candidates never win).

So, Yoda, tell me why you're such a quitter? You'll just sit here and put up with the decline of the country?

Now - do you see how ridiculous the previous statements sound?

Originally Posted by djplong

Interesting choice.

See problems with the country and move - or see problems with the country and vote to fix them (even if my candidates never win).

So, Yoda, tell me why you're such a quitter? You'll just sit here and put up with the decline of the country?

Now - do you see how ridiculous the previous statements sound?

I think Yoda was being facetious. I could be presumptuous but I think people are tired of the constant put-downs of the USA from media sources and elites who love to degrade us and elevate Europe and other countries. Seems that being proud of your country and it's achievements is not chic now a days.
WE have a person in the White House who likes to apologize instead of inspire. Thuggery and back door deals instead of the transparency we were promised. His constant put downs of our traditions and heritages.
I think Yoda and most patriots are saying that we need citizens to be proud of who we are as Americans and if you aren't, get the heck out and find a country that is of your liking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!