Why are the taxpayers, and not the developer, paying for the expansion of the village

[Advogado]

I am going to start with a riddle: How can 5 guys screw 125,000 people--- Now I mean screw financially, not physically?

The answer to the riddle: Five guys can do this by getting elected to the Sumter County Board of Commissioners, with the support of the Developer and then financially screwing everybody in Sumter County-- except the Developer and the Developer's cronies. More specifically, these 5 guys are screwing Sumter County taxpayers by giving the Developer a sweetheart deal on IMPACT FEES, thereby offloading the costs of The Villages expansion on to Sumter County taxpayers and saving the Developer an incredible amount of money. That is what we saw happening on the evening of September 25 when the Developer toadies serving as County Commissioners screwed the Sumter County taxpayers with a 25% tax increase in order to benefit the Commissioners' patron, the Developer.

Remember the Developer put the County Commissioners in office via his “One Sumter” 2004 legislation; his campaign contributions; his propaganda organ, The Villages Daily Sun; and his promotion of directors and presidents from his front organization, the so-called Villages Homeowners Advocates (the VHA), to political office.

Until recently, I didn't know what an impact fee was. Now I do--no thanks to the September 24th front-page article in The Developer' Daily Sun, which purported to explain property taxes, but never mentions impact fees. According to Sumter County's own website: “An impact fee is a one time charge applied to new construction. The purpose of the fee is to fund capital projects for roads (such as construction, land acquisition, [sic]). Impact fees can be charges for parks, schools, jails, ambulances and other infrastructure needs that may occur due to new development.” An impact fee is paid by the builder of a new house when he gets his building permit.

If you are on a County Commission, and you want to do a favor for the guy who put you in office and that guy is a big developer, you set a REAL LOW impact fee. To put what's going on here in perspective, let's look at Collier County. In Collier County, where the Developer doesn't have the County Commissioners in his pocket, the builder of a house in a retirement community pays an impact fee of about $20,000 per house.

In Sumter County, the Developer pays an impact fee of $901 per house. I repeat $901 or about $19,000 per house less than he would pay if he built in Collier County. Stated differently the Developer is paying an impact fee of less than 5% of what he would pay in Collier County.

This sweetheart deal in Sumter County has been in place for years. Who has been making up for the lost county revenue, i.e., who has been making a gift to the Developer? We have, through higher county taxes.

Now the chickens have now REALLY come home to roost. The Villages is massively expanding, which is necessitating a corresponding massive expansion in roads and other infrastructure. 60,000 new houses times $19,000 per house (i.e., the difference between the Sumter County and Collier County impact-fee rates) means that the Developer will be paying impact fees of One Billion, One Hundred Forty Million Dollars less than he would pay in Collier County. BUT rather than increasing the Developer's low impact fees to cover the cost of the infrastructure expansion, the County Commissioners are increasing OUR taxes by 25%. (Incidentally, the One Billion, One Hundred Forty Million Dollar figure doesn't include the amount of the gift that the Developer has already received with respect to houses already built.) The Developer is certainly getting a good return on his campaign contributions-- at our expense.

The Daily Sun cites $348 as a typical tax increase. So remember, when you pay your taxes, you are essentially writing a check to the Developer for $348 (or whatever your actual tax increase is.)

Please mark your 2020 calendars on August 18 (the date of the Republican primary) and on November 3 (the date of the general election) as follows: VOTE OUT BUTLER, BURGESS, AND PRINTZ.

LET'S CLEAN UP SUMTER COUNTY GOVERNMENT

[manaboutown]

Thank you for researching impact fee variance in Florida counties and precisely summarizing the situation. Holy cow! It appears to me to be somewhat reminiscent of this fictional but well known Hazzard County operation. Boss Hogg - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boss_Hogg)

[Mleeja]

This smells of the POA.

[Velvet]

My tax bill went up 28.4% from last year not including maintenance and bond.

[Advogado]

You can thank the County Commissioners for that. The current tax increase is incredible.

[Advogado]

This smells of the POA.

My name is Scott Fenstermaker. What is yours?

I am not an officer or director of the POA, although I would hope that the POA would act to try to clean up Sumter County government by trying to replace the Developer's toadies on the Commission.

These toadies are screwing the Sumter County residents with a 25% tax increase to cover the cost of The Villages expansion--instead of increasing the Developer's incredibly low impact fee.

The VHA will certainly do nothing in this regard.

[graciegirl]

This smells of the POA.

My very first thought.

[kansasr]

Why? Because it is well thought out and presented in a factual manner?

[Velvet]

“Ignorance kills, knowledge never does.”
If the above information is incorrect, I would like to know. Exact details, please.

[njbchbum]

Here is the Impact Fee Schedule for Lake County - check the fee for the 'Active Adult' category - nothing like the fee mentioned by the OP here:
Residential Impact Fee Schedule (https://www.lakecountyfl.gov/offices/planning_and_zoning/impact_fees/residential_impact_fees/residental_impact_fee_schedule.aspx)

Cannot find an 'Active Adult' category for Marion County and only a Transportation Impact fee:
http://www.ocalafl.org/Home/ShowDocument?id=4256

Link for Sumter County fee schedule [Adobe pdf] can be found here:
Road Impact Fee Schedules | Sumter County, FL - Official Website (https://sumtercountyfl.gov/672/Impact-Fees)

I think the OP's stats are apples and oranges in comparison to the Villages other 2 counties. But I have been known to be incorrect! lol

[Velvet]

Thank you, I see $901 fee mentioned in OP’s post for Sumter county, can you also give the equivalent information on Collier county for comparison as above?

[Advogado]

Here is the Impact Fee Schedule for Lake County - check the fee for the 'Active Adult' category - nothing like the fee mentioned by the OP here:
Residential Impact Fee Schedule (https://www.lakecountyfl.gov/offices/planning_and_zoning/impact_fees/residential_impact_fees/residental_impact_fee_schedule.aspx)

Cannot find an 'Active Adult' category for Marion County and only a Transportation Impact fee:
http://www.ocalafl.org/Home/ShowDocument?id=4256

Link for Sumter County fee schedule [Adobe pdf] can be found here:
Road Impact Fee Schedules | Sumter County, FL - Official Website (https://sumtercountyfl.gov/672/Impact-Fees)

I think the OP's stats are apples and oranges in comparison to the Villages other 3 counties. But I have been known to be incorrect! lol
Actually, there are no other apples to compare because the upcoming explosive growth of The Villages is unique.

I did not say that the Developer's impact fee should be $20,000 like Collier County's, but it should be adequate to cover the impact of the massive expansion of The Villages--whatever that number is.

The basic point here is simple, and you are missing it if you get bogged down in comparisons: The Commissioners were faced with the choice of putting the cost of the impact of infrastructure expansion either (a) on their patron, the Developer, through higher impact fees OR (b) on us through higher taxes. They chose the latter.

Why do you think they did that?

[Advogado]

I (along with a total of probably 1,300 residents) was at the two Commissioners' meetings where public comments were listened to, and ignored by, the Commissioners. There were people there from less affluent areas of the County, near tears, explaining that they will be faced with the choice of paying their taxes or paying for their medicine.

If you took a poll of Sumter County residents and asked whether the expanded infrastructure should be paid for by higher taxes on them or higher impact fees on The Developer, I would wager that at least 95% would say through higher impact fees.

So, why did our representatives vote for higher taxes????

[Velvet]

Because they could?

[tophcfa]

One fact can not be ignored. If the the new Villages South development south of 44 never happened, and the area was still open space, there would be no need to raise everyones taxes to build connecting infrastructure. And exactly who is financially benefiting form the new development? Not the people paying the 25% tax increase!

[JoMar]

My tax bill went up 28% over the last 15 years and is still less than what I was paying in Pa. The available and new amenities are growing and access to new shopping and eating facilities will be available as growth continues. Those that believe growth should be halted have the "I got mine so stop" and frankly have no place here IMO. Anyone who moved here and doesn't believe there would be increases in taxes or other expenses have their head buried. And I'm really getting tired of everything being the Developes fault....where did you come from where the developers had responsibility for roads and highways.....everywhere I have lived it was always the responsibility of the town (Wildwood is responsible for south of 44) or the County (whch has responsibility for north of 44 ...except Villas) or the State. And when you vote out the Commissioners what do you expect the ones you vote in to do when faced with the same needs? Let the place deteriorate? If you have all the answers go jump in and see what you can do as an elected official...or is it just easer to annomously complain with no accountability.....end of rant.

[Advogado]

My tax bill went up 28% over the last 15 years and is still less than what I was paying in Pa. The available and new amenities are growing and access to new shopping and eating facilities will be available as growth continues. Those that believe growth should be halted have the "I got mine so stop" and frankly have no place here IMO. Anyone who moved here and doesn't believe there would be increases in taxes or other expenses have their head buried. And I'm really getting tired of everything being the Developes fault....where did you come from where the developers had responsibility for roads and highways.....everywhere I have lived it was always the responsibility of the town (Wildwood is responsible for south of 44) or the County (whch has responsibility for north of 44 ...except Villas) or the State. And when you vote out the Commissioners what do you expect the ones you vote in to do when faced with the same needs? Let the place deteriorate? If you have all the answers go jump in and see what you can do as an elected official...or is it just easer to annomously complain with no accountability.....end of rant.
I am not anonymously complaining. My name is listed above, and yours?

The point is that infrastructure expansion like we are experiencing is normally paid for by the developer responsible for it. Here the Developer's toadies on the Commission have not increased the preexisting impact fee (already a sweetheart rate) by 1 cent to cover it. They have increased taxes instead.

Don't you see what is going on or are you somehow connected with the Developer?

[biker1]

What you were paying in PA has nothing to do with taxes here. I really wish people would stop with those strawman arguments.


My tax bill went up 28% over the last 15 years and is still less than what I was paying in Pa. The available and new amenities are growing and access to new shopping and eating facilities will be available as growth continues. Those that believe growth should be halted have the "I got mine so stop" and frankly have no place here IMO. Anyone who moved here and doesn't believe there would be increases in taxes or other expenses have their head buried. And I'm really getting tired of everything being the Developes fault....where did you come from where the developers had responsibility for roads and highways.....everywhere I have lived it was always the responsibility of the town (Wildwood is responsible for south of 44) or the County (whch has responsibility for north of 44 ...except Villas) or the State. And when you vote out the Commissioners what do you expect the ones you vote in to do when faced with the same needs? Let the place deteriorate? If you have all the answers go jump in and see what you can do as an elected official...or is it just easer to annomously complain with no accountability.....end of rant.

[Chi-Town]

To say that the OP's post smacks of the POA shows little thought processing. It redirects the fact that we are getting a 25% tax increase in one year which coincides with the explosive growth south of 44. It should be food for thought.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[Bay Kid]

Big government, small government, all want more money. They don't earn it, they just take what they need/want. Why did they even have local meetings, it was a done deal.

[Martian]

I guess I have to wonder. Of course I read it on the internet so it must be true.

At best without supporting documentation it is an opinion. I freely admit that I am new here and don't know what is going on, but I do know that there are almost always two sides to every argument. And it is very easy to look for shady reasons for something like a tax increase.

[Arctic Fox]

Apart from marking your calendar for almost a year from now, I didn't read anywhere what you are going to do about this, Advogado?

[geobar]

Thankfully we had moved from "Sumter County" 2 years ago.
In our 8 years there our R E Taxes went down appropriately 8 to 10%.

Why hasn't any group in "The Villages" or Resident in Sumter County contact the Attorney General about this unrepresented R E Tax restructure to benefit the "Morse Money Hungry Mogul's"?
The 5 Board members have been planted on the Board by the "Morse Money Hungry Mogul's".

Residents are being Screwed by the "Morse Money Hungry Mogul's".
Since when do Tax payers foot the bill for any Builders impact fees?
This is unheard of in any County or State in the "United States of America".

When Gary Morse was in control this was never was even a consideration.
He made it Affordable for new purchasers and residents in Sumter County.
Actually till Nov. 2018 the Sumter County R E Taxes were lowered for over 15 continuous years.
Now live with the GREED of the "Morse Money Hungry Mogul's" (Family).

How much money do they actually need?
Look up the Wealth of the Morse Family or Individually as I found this today:
"H. Gary Morse net worth: H. Gary Morse is an American entrepreneur who has a net worth of $2.5 billion. H. Gary Morse is the son of Michigan-born developer, Harold Schwartz".

Clean up "Sumter County Government" and the "Morse Money Hungry Mogul's" (Such a Shame)

[birdiebill]

One point that everyone seems to be overlooking, or maybe not, is that all developer's costs are passed on to the buyers of the development. Impact fees, infrastructure costs, etc are in one way or another passed on to each buyer of each new house/home in the new development. Most of the time is it reflected in the higher cost of the homes and lots. In fewer cases it is passed on as a bond. Of course if all these costs were included in the price of the new homes and villas, it might make them too costly for buyers. That would slow down new home sales.

[tophcfa]

One point that everyone seems to be overlooking, or maybe not, is that all developer's costs are passed on to the buyers of the development. Impact fees, infrastructure costs, etc are in one way or another passed on to each buyer of each new house/home in the new development. Most of the time is it reflected in the higher cost of the homes and lots. In fewer cases it is passed on as a bond. Of course if all these costs were included in the price of the new homes and villas, it might make them too costly for buyers. That would slow down new home sales.

Your point is very well taken and certainly not overlooked. That is why many existing homeowners are outraged. As you stated, "impact fees, infrastructure costs, etc are passed on to each buyer of each new house/home in the new development." You also stated that "if all these costs were included in the price of new homes and villas, it might make them too costly for buyers. That would slow down new home sales."

What you said is true, which is that impact fees for new development infrastructure are tryically paid by the buyers of the new homes in the development, because the developers pass the impact fees through in the price of the homes. The outrage here is that the developers effectively forced the impact fees to be paid by existing homeowners, allowing them to sell new homes cheaper and faster and make more money. So all Sumter county homeowners living north of 44 are subsidizing the developers profits. Personally, coming from someone with limited means, I don't particularly like subsidizing the profits of billionaires : (.

[graciegirl]

Been reading anti developer from the same source for many years.

[Advogado]

I guess I have to wonder. Of course I read it on the internet so it must be true.

At best without supporting documentation it is an opinion. I freely admit that I am new here and don't know what is going on, but I do know that there are almost always two sides to every argument. And it is very easy to look for shady reasons for something like a tax increase.
Everything said in my post is easily verifiable.

[graciegirl]

Everything said in my post is easily verifiable.

Are you a lawyer?

[Advogado]

One point that everyone seems to be overlooking, or maybe not, is that all developer's costs are passed on to the buyers of the development. Impact fees, infrastructure costs, etc are in one way or another passed on to each buyer of each new house/home in the new development. Most of the time is it reflected in the higher cost of the homes and lots. In fewer cases it is passed on as a bond. Of course if all these costs were included in the price of the new homes and villas, it might make them too costly for buyers. That would slow down new home sales.

Basic economics: Competition prevents the Developer from simply passing all his increased costs on to the buyers of new houses. The Developer would have to absorb some or all of them. This is why he has had his toadies on the County Commission raise our taxes rather than his impact fees.

[Advogado]

Apart from marking your calendar for almost a year from now, I didn't read anywhere what you are going to do about this, Advogado?
If it isn't clear to you, I am going to do what I can to replace the present County Commissioners with ones who are honest, competent, and independent of the Developer. Can I count on your support in this endeavor?

[Advogado]

Are you a lawyer?
In real life, I was. Were you a developer? :)

[njbchbum]

Apart from marking your calendar for almost a year from now, I didn't read anywhere what you are going to do about this, Advogado?

:bigbow:

[New Englander]

To those who disagree with the OP (Avocado). Point out where he is wrong. What facts is he presenting that are incorrect?

[Advogado]

To those who disagree with the OP (Avocado). Point out where he is wrong. What facts is he presenting that are incorrect?

I fact checked, but if I made any mistakes, I would be glad to be educated. Frankly, some of the comments, like attacks on the POA, are, at best, irrelevant.

[Fredster]

Sometimes a persons rose colored glasses are too dark a tint!
I think that to believe the developers have not influenced elected officials
is their favor is quite naive!

[eweissenbach]

By the way, I am a proud dues paying member of the POA. Everyone interested in an unvarnished, comprehensive and unbiased oversight of what should be important to residents of TV should join. Having said that, I am very pro developer for their vision and execution of the best retirement community in the world, however they are not above reproach.

[Bogie Shooter]

Thankfully we had moved from "Sumter County" 2 years ago.
In our 8 years there our R E Taxes went down appropriately 8 to 10%.

Why hasn't any group in "The Villages" or Resident in Sumter County contact the Attorney General about this unrepresented R E Tax restructure to benefit the "Morse Money Hungry Mogul's"?
The 5 Board members have been planted on the Board by the "Morse Money Hungry Mogul's".

Residents are being Screwed by the "Morse Money Hungry Mogul's".
Since when do Tax payers foot the bill for any Builders impact fees?
This is unheard of in any County or State in the "United States of America".

When Gary Morse was in control this was never was even a consideration.
He made it Affordable for new purchasers and residents in Sumter County.
Actually till Nov. 2018 the Sumter County R E Taxes were lowered for over 15 continuous years.
Now live with the GREED of the "Morse Money Hungry Mogul's" (Family).

How much money do they actually need?
Look up the Wealth of the Morse Family or Individually as I found this today:
"H. Gary Morse net worth: H. Gary Morse is an American entrepreneur who has a net worth of $2.5 billion. H. Gary Morse is the son of Michigan-born developer, Harold Schwartz".

Clean up "Sumter County Government" and the "Morse Money Hungry Mogul's" (Such a Shame)
You said you left...…………………………..

[Fredster]

Hopefully clear thinking honest independent people who represent the interests of the resident citizens of Sumter County can be elected to replace the present members obsequious to the developer. That would be a breath of fresh air!

I’m not anti developer, but the developers seem to be able to take care of themselves quite well.
I would like like officials in office that represent the home owning constituents that elected them!
So, remember to vote!

[graciegirl]

Hopefully clear thinking honest independent people who represent the interests of the resident citizens of Sumter County can be elected to replace the present members obsequious to the developer. That would be a breath of fresh air!

Did you buy here this Spring? I am glad you are a landowner. It really is a wonderful place to live and I really think a lot of it is due to the decisions made by the developer. We have found it so for a dozen years. But, if we found evidence that was not so, we would sell and leave.

[Advogado]

I am wondering if their political leanings will be part of your decision making as to who is honest, competent, and independent of the Developer. I have no problems with people who support the developer.
To answer your question: At the County Commissioner level, political party should not matter.

I am a moderate Republican and would prefer to see honest, competent, independent Republican Commissioners, but party affiliation is not that important to me in regard to Commissioners.

BTW, like you, I credit with the Developer in making The Villagers a really great retirement community. I have an issue, however, with some of the things the Developer has done in developing it.

[graciegirl]

I just looked this up and now I forget what PIRG means...Public Interest something. Anyhow interesting;

Who Pays For Roads? | U.S. PIRG (https://uspirg.org/reports/usp/who-pays-roads)

who pays for new roads and new utilities in a new area??? - Bing (https://www.bing.com/search?q=who+pays+for+new+roads+and+new+utilities+ in+a+new+area%3F%3F%3F&form=EDGHPT&qs=PF&cvid=4866261910d64d808ada7f092a9c38e1&refig=fe079d0dbfc640ecb34b7de25d4c8c3c&cc=US&setlang=en-US&elv=AXK1c4IvZoNqPoPnS%21QRLOOYuHkU8POP4zwhkP23OaHN 5Tcw2F*JcMXi3Bsl9953eV42ymaJyAm3lIdw7Nhnj%21114H4V nuxzThyvsKLX%210Ic&plvar=0&PC=DCTS)

[dewilson58]

In real life, I was. Were you a developer? :)




As a Developer, developers try to maximize tax benefits and incentives while minimizing costs to develop a piece of land. This is Developer 101. It's not greed, it's business. If a city or county "gives too much away" (in the eyes of taxpayers), it's not a develop issue. The developer did a great job.

[Velvet]

And conversely, as a homeowner, you try to advocate in your best interest in the same way, Homeowners 101.

[dewilson58]

And conversely, as a homeowner, you try to advocate in your best interest in the same way, Homeowners 101.




Absolutely.


That is why Homeowners need to be engaged in the City/County Budget process, not wait until the taxes are determined to cover the budget.




:icon_wink:

[Ben Franklin]

I brought up Impact fees when I first heard of this tax increase. I am from a county in Southwest Florida, where the Commissioners were also in the pockets of the developers. Taxes held pretty steady until the Commissioners dropped the impact fees, then our taxes went up. The Commissioner's response was that impact fees would stymy growth. I moved to that county when the population was around 150,000 people. Today there are close to 800,000 people, and it's a parking lot on the roadways, even in the summer.

Personal responsibility means that those who are impacting the roads and schools and other areas should be the one's paying for their impact, not the people who already live in a community. We need leaders, not puppets.

[graciegirl]

I brought up Impact fees when I first heard of this tax increase. I am from a county in Southwest Florida, where the Commissioners were also in the pockets of the developers. Taxes held pretty steady until the Commissioners dropped the impact fees, then our taxes went up. The Commissioner's response was that impact fees would stymy growth. I moved to that county when the population was around 150,000 people. Today there are close to 800,000 people, and it's a parking lot on the roadways, even in the summer.

Personal responsibility means that those who are impacting the roads and schools and other areas should be the one's paying for their impact, not the people who already live in a community. We need leaders, not puppets.

We can't decide who is who. We don't know the real names. Anybody can say anything on an anonymous forum. I praise Scott Fenstermaker for telling his real name after all of these years.

There are often, in the background in any situation, people who will benefit monetarily through a situation. It takes some real detective work to see who they are. I know of decisions by the developer that brought in medical facilities that then competed with those already here and that caused financial tension I am sure. You never know who and what people stand for. AND how they will benefit. I am always suspicious about motivation when money changes hands. Or if it is political. I don't know which is worse. I have no problem with a business making money legitimately. There are always those envious of great financial success. I love looking into things to see who benefits. And who has an ax to grind.

[Marathon Man]

Absolutely.


That is why Homeowners need to be engaged in the City/County Budget process, not wait until the taxes are determined to cover the budget.




:icon_wink:

I agree with this thought. Most people are willing to get involved only after something has p*ssed them off. I attend PWAC and my CDD meeting every month. It is usually me and four other residents. Unless, someone got turned in for a deed restriction. Then the room is full.

One other thought and then I will give the floor over. Are we so certain that the underhanded nature of things is simply perceived and not real? As in: 'The Developer benefits so they must be pulling strings'. So easy to accuse and critisize. So, I guess we will see how the new commisioners do after the revolution.

[Advogado]

As a Developer, developers try to maximize tax benefits and incentives while minimizing costs to develop a piece of land. This is Developer 101. It's not greed, it's business. If a city or county "gives too much away" (in the eyes of taxpayers), it's not a develop issue. The developer did a great job.
You are right. The Developer did a great job at looking out for his own financial interests--at our expense. Some, like you, would characterize this as good business. Others might characterize it as the Developer's being morally challenged. In any event, I guess we have ourselves to blame for letting it happen.

I would suggest readers Google: "Florida county commissioner bribe " for an education about Florida politics at the county commissioner level.

I do want to emphasize, however, that I do not know of any criminal conduct underlying the present situation.

[njbchbum]

Advogado - This impact fee has been in effect since 2015...what is the bruhaha all about now - and why? Have Sumter County residents not enjoyed stable or even lowered taxes for 15 years? Seems to me that the BOCC failed to maintain a 'rainy day fund' which might have offset the impact of this increase.

How is it that you expect Villages voters to overturn One Sumter when it exists because of their votes - which cannot be overcome by the number of voters in the rest of the County? Do you believe that the Villages voters wish to change their priority status that they seem to enjoy now?

Will you be a candidate for the S.C. BOCC?

[Martian]

It seems to me that "the developers" great financial success is what makes TV as great as it is. Seriously, this place is an example of just how great a retirement community can be and it didn't get here because the developers were losing money! Guess what WE PAY THE BILLS.

Now, "suddenly" after decades of success building a great place for us, we want to start penny pinching and complaining about them making too much money "at our expense".

Sounds very short sighted to me. I hope TV continues to grow and proposer for more decades, and if the developers get filthy rich, then more power to them.

[Velvet]

You are welcome to subsidize any charity, including billionaires, if you want, but I prefer to chose my own charities.

[Advogado]

Advogado - This impact fee has been in effect since 2015...what is the bruhaha all about now - and why? Have Sumter County residents not enjoyed stable or even lowered taxes for 15 years? Seems to me that the BOCC failed to maintain a 'rainy day fund' which might have offset the impact of this increase.

How is it that you expect Villages voters to overturn One Sumter when it exists because of their votes - which cannot be overcome by the number of voters in the rest of the County? Do you believe that the Villages voters wish to change their priority status that they seem to enjoy now?

Will you be a candidate for the S.C. BOCC?

To address your points and questions:

Why no rainy day fund for the infrastructure? It is not raining. Instead, the Developer is massively expanding The Villages, which will earn him billions but will necessitate a massive infrastructure expansion. Impact fees, not rainy day funds (which are taxpayer dollars) should be used to pay for such infrastructure expansion.

Yes, the present impact-fee schedule (which gave the Developer a sweetheart rate of $901 versus $2,600 for ordinary builders) was adopted in 2015—i.e., before the massive expansion of The Villages was on the table. But it was supposed to be revised at least every 5 years. It was NOT revised when the Developer announced his massive expansion. Instead our taxes were increased. Why was this done? I think that the answer is obvious.

Why overturn One Sumter? I believe that there are valid reasons, but whether or not it is overturned we need to get rid of the Developer's toadies presently serving as Commissioners. That is the point I am trying to make, and I don't want to get sidetracked into a debate on One Sumter.

Will I be a candidate for the Board of County Commissioners? No. I am too old and don't know enough about local politics. My only objective is to see Commissioners elected who are honest, competent, and independent of the Developer.

[Advogado]

It seems to me that "the developers" great financial success is what makes TV as great as it is. Seriously, this place is an example of just how great a retirement community can be and it didn't get here because the developers were losing money! Guess what WE PAY THE BILLS.

Now, "suddenly" after decades of success building a great place for us, we want to start penny pinching and complaining about them making too much money "at our expense".

Sounds very short sighted to me. I hope TV continues to grow and proposer for more decades, and if the developers get filthy rich, then more power to them.
We are not penny pinching when we object to our elected officials kowtowing to their patron by offloading his costs on to us.

[graciegirl]

We are not penny pinching when we object to our elected officials kowtowing to their patron by offloading his costs on to us.

You have been involved with the POA since Driedame being president?

[Advogado]

You have been involved with the POA since Driedame being president?

Only as a member. I think that I joined around 2008, which was before she became president, but I am not sure why that is relevant. Obviously, I am not a member of the VHA.

[Velvet]

Thank you for bringing information public (as long as it is accurate.) They say evil always counts on silence and blindness and gaslighting. The definition of evil is hurting (taking advantage) of other people.

[Advogado]

Thank you for bringing information public (as long as it is accurate.) They say evil always counts on silence and blindness and gaslighting. The definition of evil is hurting (taking advantage) of other people.

If you find anything that I have said is inaccurate, let me know and I will correct it.

[Velvet]

Can’t find a thing inaccurate so far!

[Advogado]

Can’t find a thing inaccurate so far!

That's a relief. :)

[dewilson58]

My only objective is to see Commissioners elected who are honest, competent, and independent of the Developer.




You've been at it for over 10 years, how's that going for you???




:1rotfl:






:1rotfl:






:1rotfl:


(I couldn't resist)

[Advogado]

You've been at it for over 10 years, how's that going for you???




:1rotfl:






:1rotfl:






:1rotfl:


(I couldn't resist)
Some successes and some disappointments, neither of which I will go into.

[Bogie Shooter]

I brought up Impact fees when I first heard of this tax increase. I am from a county in Southwest Florida, where the Commissioners were also in the pockets of the developers. Taxes held pretty steady until the Commissioners dropped the impact fees, then our taxes went up. The Commissioner's response was that impact fees would stymy growth. I moved to that county when the population was around 150,000 people. Today there are close to 800,000 people, and it's a parking lot on the roadways, even in the summer.

Personal responsibility means that those who are impacting the roads and schools and other areas should be the one's paying for their impact, not the people who already live in a community. We need leaders, not puppets.

Like you did when you bought two years ago? Or did you raise the issue of such low impact fees?

[Bogie Shooter]

You are welcome to subsidize any charity, including billionaires, if you want, but I prefer to chose my own charities.

Did you parents ever complain about high taxes?Low impact fees?

[Bogie Shooter]

To address your points and questions:

Why no rainy day fund for the infrastructure? It is not raining. Instead, the Developer is massively expanding The Villages, which will earn him billions but will necessitate a massive infrastructure expansion. Impact fees, not rainy day funds (which are taxpayer dollars) should be used to pay for such infrastructure expansion.

Yes, the present impact-fee schedule (which gave the Developer a sweetheart rate of $901 versus $2,600 for ordinary builders) was adopted in 2015—i.e., before the massive expansion of The Villages was on the table. But it was supposed to be revised at least every 5 years. It was NOT revised when the Developer announced his massive expansion. Instead our taxes were increased. Why was this done? I think that the answer is obvious.

Why overturn One Sumter? I believe that there are valid reasons, but whether or not it is overturned we need to get rid of the Developer's toadies presently serving as Commissioners. That is the point I am trying to make, and I don't want to get sidetracked into a debate on One Sumter.

Will I be a candidate for the Board of County Commissioners? No. I am too old and don't know enough about local politics. My only objective is to see Commissioners elected who are honest, competent, and independent of the Developer.

Did you raise the question of low impact fees way back in 2007 when you bought? I assume your house was near a major street that you used?

[Velvet]

All my relatives were happy with TV, especially when Mr Schwartz was alive. He was a gentleman of vision and integrity. Generations of my family will remember and respect his legacy. Including me.

But we are talking about something else now.

[eyc234]

Thankfully we had moved from "Sumter County" 2 years ago.
In our 8 years there our R E Taxes went down appropriately 8 to 10%.

Why hasn't any group in "The Villages" or Resident in Sumter County contact the Attorney General about this unrepresented R E Tax restructure to benefit the "Morse Money Hungry Mogul's"?
The 5 Board members have been planted on the Board by the "Morse Money Hungry Mogul's".

Residents are being Screwed by the "Morse Money Hungry Mogul's".
Since when do Tax payers foot the bill for any Builders impact fees?
This is unheard of in any County or State in the "United States of America".

When Gary Morse was in control this was never was even a consideration.
He made it Affordable for new purchasers and residents in Sumter County.
Actually till Nov. 2018 the Sumter County R E Taxes were lowered for over 15 continuous years.
Now live with the GREED of the "Morse Money Hungry Mogul's" (Family).

How much money do they actually need?
Look up the Wealth of the Morse Family or Individually as I found this today:
"H. Gary Morse net worth: H. Gary Morse is an American entrepreneur who has a net worth of $2.5 billion. H. Gary Morse is the son of Michigan-born developer, Harold Schwartz".

Clean up "Sumter County Government" and the "Morse Money Hungry Mogul's" (Such a Shame)

:faint: So are you dumping you Ipad, iPhone, all Microsoft equipment and software, not shopping at Walmart, not shopping at Amazon or having anything to do with corporation or owner has muuuuuuch more money than the "developer"? Oh and are you going to support all the families that make a living from jobs, restaurants etc... that go along with this development? I always marvel at how small world people can be. I can not begin to tell you the answers but just blaming someone for making money is not a solution. If they go away a lot of people are hurt but maybe that does not matter to most people.

[eyc234]

You are welcome to subsidize any charity, including billionaires, if you want, but I prefer to chose my own charities.


Many times you do not have a choice. If you pay taxes to the federal government I guarantee you are supporting charities you did not pick.

[tophcfa]

As a Developer, developers try to maximize tax benefits and incentives while minimizing costs to develop a piece of land. This is Developer 101. It's not greed, it's business. If a city or county "gives too much away" (in the eyes of taxpayers), it's not a develop issue. The developer did a great job.

I understand your point, the only problem with your argument is that in a typical city or county the municipality is not buried so deeply in the developers pockets. In this case, many homeowners attempted to engaged in the "process", only to quickly learn the process was nothing more than and procedural scam and that the developers wishes were a pre-determined done deal. The 25% tax increase, in lieu of adequate impact fees, (which was voted on unanimously despite strong taxpayer opposition) is proof that the developer runs Sumter county. Our so called representatives are nothing more than proxies of the developer. That's not how things are supposed to work in a functional municipality. All I can say to our so called representatives is, are you familiar with what conflict of interest is?

[tophcfa]

Absolutely.


That is why Homeowners need to be engaged in the City/County Budget process, not wait until the taxes are determined to cover the budget.


:icon_wink:

Many homeowners, including myself, attempted to engage in the budget process. The problem is that we very quickly learned there was no real process, the developers wishes were already a done deal. Yes, they had the information sessions and meetings because they were required to. Unfortunately, our county representatives never showed any respect to, or addressed any of the concerns of the counties taxpayers.

[tophcfa]

To address your points and questions:

Why no rainy day fund for the infrastructure? It is not raining. Instead, the Developer is massively expanding The Villages, which will earn him billions but will necessitate a massive infrastructure expansion. Impact fees, not rainy day funds (which are taxpayer dollars) should be used to pay for such infrastructure expansion.

Yes, the present impact-fee schedule (which gave the Developer a sweetheart rate of $901 versus $2,600 for ordinary builders) was adopted in 2015—i.e., before the massive expansion of The Villages was on the table. But it was supposed to be revised at least every 5 years. It was NOT revised when the Developer announced his massive expansion. Instead our taxes were increased. Why was this done? I think that the answer is obvious.

Why overturn One Sumter? I believe that there are valid reasons, but whether or not it is overturned we need to get rid of the Developer's toadies presently serving as Commissioners. That is the point I am trying to make, and I don't want to get sidetracked into a debate on One Sumter.

Will I be a candidate for the Board of County Commissioners? No. I am too old and don't know enough about local politics. My only objective is to see Commissioners elected who are honest, competent, and independent of the Developer.

Great post!

[tophcfa]

Did you parents ever complain about high taxes?Low impact fees?

Mine didn't, but then again, they never lived in a county where all of the elected officials were deep in the pockets of a single developer that ran the county through their proxies.

[Dionysos]

The OP is 100% on point! Unfortunately being on point is futile in this situation. Florida is a pay to play state and goes a lot higher then the Commissioners. I am sure the Developers have some of the top lobbyist working on their behalf, such as Ron Book or Brian Ballard, that move things beyond what normal folks consider due process. It goes beyond impact fee's, zoning rules etc... The Developers have built a Mecca in the retirement world and in parallel have created a huge monetary money machine for Florida. Favors will continue to be made as long as the growth remains strong and they do not over take from the the Villages residents to quickly. 25% tax increase seems to be a number they feel works ok for the majority with little protest from the minority. Hopefully this does not become a regular thing like it has in so many other Florida Counties.

Cheers

[njbchbum]

To address your points and questions:

Why no rainy day fund for the infrastructure? It is not raining. Instead, the Developer is massively expanding The Villages, which will earn him billions but will necessitate a massive infrastructure expansion. Impact fees, not rainy day funds (which are taxpayer dollars) should be used to pay for such infrastructure expansion.

Yes, the present impact-fee schedule (which gave the Developer a sweetheart rate of $901 versus $2,600 for ordinary builders) was adopted in 2015—i.e., before the massive expansion of The Villages was on the table. But it was supposed to be revised at least every 5 years. It was NOT revised when the Developer announced his massive expansion. Instead our taxes were increased. Why was this done? I think that the answer is obvious.

snipped

Will I be a candidate for the Board of County Commissioners? No. I am too old and don't know enough about local politics. My only objective is to see Commissioners elected who are honest, competent, and independent of the Developer. The Village of Fenny [and the need for all of its infrastructure] was announced way before its first phase opening in June of 2017 - impact fee was $901 at that time and was not to be revised at that time according to your allegation...which would not be until 2020. So that expansion was announced and begun well before your idea of "massive expansion" - no? And your taxes didn't increase then - or for so very many years up to that point! Maybe the impact fee will increase according to your alleged schedule in 2020.


One is never too old to run for office to serve the people in an honest/competent fashion! Based on my assessment of your post, you seem to think you know quite a but about local politics!

[Advogado]

The Village of Fenny [and the need for all of its infrastructure] was announced way before its first phase opening in June of 2017 - impact fee was $901 at that time and was not to be revised at that time according to your allegation...which would not be until 2020. So that expansion was announced and begun well before your idea of "massive expansion" - no? And your taxes didn't increase then - or for so very many years up to that point! Maybe the impact fee will increase according to your alleged schedule in 2020.


One is never too old to run for office to serve the people in an honest/competent fashion! Based on my assessment of your post, you seem to think you know quite a but about local politics!
Why would the Commissioners wait until 2020 to increase the impact fee? That should have been done instead of increasing taxes once it became clear that a massive infrastructure expansion was necessary. The impact fee was not increased at that time, and property taxes were, for the reasons outlined in my original post.

[Martian]

The title of the thread is misleading. The implication is that ONLY TV tax payers are paying and second that somehow the developers would foot the bill if it were not taxed.

The fact is that residents in TV would pay one way or the other. The money is for things that would be done no matter what given the growth of TV. Also, it can be argued that the development of TV in this county increases the value of properties around TV.

This seems to be the same argument that "I don't have kids, why should I pay for schools", or "I don't own a car why should I pay for roads", and on and on. We all share in the cost of our community, it can be paid up front, or buried in taxes, or hidden in "invisible taxes" (like gasoline taxes).

A better question to me would be "are we getting our moneys worth". The fact is is being paid through taxes or amenity or bond or built into home sales price is not relevant to me.

[Velvet]

You are right, it is beyond naive to expect developers would pay for anything in the long run. They are in business. (Calling a cat a cat is not bashing by the way, and to call it that is trying to Bamboozle everyone.) In the past those who benefited ie. the owners of the homes, were the ones that paid for infrastructure through bonds and maintenance. My parents, for example. That has changed. What is objected to by people right now from what I read is that in order to sell houses cheaply the current homeowners are asked to pay for the new infrastructure.

It is mentioned that in other jurisdictions this is the case. There are no other jurisdictions that are directly comparable to TV. Where is there farm etc land bought up, and developed for sale and other people living somewhere else are subsidizing this process? You can say it’s ok till the cows come home, but you know what is really happening.

[Bogie Shooter]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[manaboutown]

You are right, it is beyond naive to expect developers would pay for anything in the long run. They are in business. (Calling a cat a cat is not bashing by the way, and to call it that is trying to Bamboozle everyone.) In the past those who benefited ie. the owners of the homes, were the ones that paid for infrastructure through bonds and maintenance. My parents, for example. That has changed. What is objected to by people right now from what I read is that in order to sell houses cheaply the current homeowners are asked to pay for the new infrastructure.

It is mentioned that in other jurisdictions this is the case. There are no other jurisdictions that are directly comparable to TV. Where is there farm etc land bought up, and developed for sale and other people living somewhere else are subsidizing this process? You can say it’s ok till the cows come home, but you know what is really happening.

More than the current homeowners within TV as it exists today are paying for new infrastructure necessary to essentially double the size of The Villages. ALL who own real property anywhere in Sumter county will be paying for it literally forever through this onerous tax increase on their property.

[Velvet]

Thank you, Boogie, for your signature. I believe in it, and as an elementary teacher, I taught it.

[dave111]

Comparing Collier to Sumter county is apples and oranges. Not including a comparison of CDD or bond fees which pay for new development costs gives a distorted picture. The $901 impact fee seemed way off which is supported by the data provided by njbchbum in the previous post.
Having said that an increase like what is coming in Sumter is excessive from one year to the next. I am all for digging into the details to see how it was deemed necessary, I hate high taxes.

[Velvet]

On that note, any second generation TVers around?

[njbchbum]

Why would the Commissioners wait until 2020 to increase the impact fee? That should have been done instead of increasing taxes once it became clear that a massive infrastructure expansion was necessary. The impact fee was not increased at that time, and property taxes were, for the reasons outlined in my original post.

LOL You are the poster who claimed that impact fees are to be reviewed every 5 years...thus 2020! The impact fee was not raised when Fenny, et.al. were announced and neither were S.C. taxes! But life is different now and something else should have been done *because* a tax increase was implemented? lololol

If the County maintained that 'rainy day' fund for unanticipated issues it would have that funding to fall back on in order to avoid such a serious tax increase. You claimed it is not raining - I claim that S.C. is suffering from a torrential downpour! Even my little town up north maintains that 'rainy day' fund with a small percentage of its annual tax revenue to be used to cover $$ associated with properties on which owners fail to pay their taxes or for other community issues which would place a burden on the taxpayers!

Why did no one complain when taxes were not increased for so many years? Was everyone enjoying riding the gravy train? So now the train is back in the depot and the piper needs to be paid for maintenance work that needs to be done and in preparation for the next gravy train run!

The S.C millage rate is still the lowest of all 3 Villages Counties - is it not?

[Velvet]

Are you kidding? Taxes were not increased because the bond covered infrastructure. Trying to guilt trip people isn’t going to work. But statistics and equivalent comparisons may be convincing.

[Advogado]

LOL You are the poster who claimed that impact fees are to be reviewed every 5 years...thus 2020! The impact fee was not raised when Fenny, et.al. were announced and neither were S.C. taxes! But life is different now and something else should have been done *because* a tax increase was implemented? lololol

If the County maintained that 'rainy day' fund for unanticipated issues it would have that funding to fall back on in order to avoid such a serious tax increase. You claimed it is not raining - I claim that S.C. is suffering from a torrential downpour! Even my little town up north maintains that 'rainy day' fund with a small percentage of its annual tax revenue to be used to cover $$ associated with properties on which owners fail to pay their taxes or for other community issues which would place a burden on the taxpayers!

Why did no one complain when taxes were not increased for so many years? Was everyone enjoying riding the gravy train? So now the train is back in the depot and the piper needs to be paid for maintenance work that needs to be done and in preparation for the next gravy train run!

The S.C millage rate is still the lowest of all 3 Villages Counties - is it not?

I am afraid that you misread my post and didn't check the Sumter County website.

I said that the impact fees were to be reviewed “at least every 5 years” [emphasis added]. For your information, here is a quote from the Sumter County web site:
“Section 20-48 of the Sumter County Code of Ordinances requires that the data upon which road impact fees are calculated be reviewed at least once every five years to ensure that a valid and equitable basis for the assessment of such fees is maintained.”

I am glad to be educated if I make a mistake, but please get your facts straight and don't misquote me.

The issue here is simple: The Developer came to his toadies on the Commission with a plan to double the size of The Villages, which will necessitate large expenditures for infrastructure. The toadies on the Commission could pay for this infrastructure expansion either through increasing the Developer's impact fee or by imposing a tax increase on Sumter County residents. The Commissioners chose the latter.

This has nothing to do with a rainy-day fund or the failure of the Commissioners to set one up. Had they set up a rainy-day fund, it would still be the taxpayers, not the Developer, paying for the infrastructure expansion necessitated by The Villages expansion.

[Advogado]

The title of the thread is misleading. The implication is that ONLY TV tax payers are paying and second that somehow the developers would foot the bill if it were not taxed.

The fact is that residents in TV would pay one way or the other. The money is for things that would be done no matter what given the growth of TV. Also, it can be argued that the development of TV in this county increases the value of properties around TV.

This seems to be the same argument that "I don't have kids, why should I pay for schools", or "I don't own a car why should I pay for roads", and on and on. We all share in the cost of our community, it can be paid up front, or buried in taxes, or hidden in "invisible taxes" (like gasoline taxes).

A better question to me would be "are we getting our moneys worth". The fact is is being paid through taxes or amenity or bond or built into home sales price is not relevant to me.
In fact, Sumter County non-Villagers are getting screwed worse than Villagers by the increase in their taxes versus an increase in the Developer's impact fee. This is because the non-residents have no access to The Villages amenities. The non-residents, if they understand what is being done to them, should be irate

Furthermore, economics 101: No seller can just add his increased costs to the price of his product. The Developer would have to absorb some or all of an increased impact fee because of competition in the market. That is why he stopped his Commissioners from increasing it, and they increased our taxes instead.

[Advogado]

Why would the Commissioners wait until 2020 to increase the impact fee? That should have been done instead of increasing taxes once it became clear that a massive infrastructure expansion was necessary. The impact fee was not increased at that time, and property were, for the reasons outlined in my original post.
The Commissioners would not have to wait until 2020. The impact fees were to be reviewed AT LEAST every 5 years.

[Big O]

Furthermore, economics 101: No seller can just add his increased costs to the price of his product. The Developer would have to absorb some or all of an increased impact fee because of competition in the market. That is why he stopped his Commissioners from increasing it, and they increased our taxes instead.[/QUOTE]

Economics must be different where you come from. Where I come from you increase your price to cover the increased costs or you go out of business.

[Advogado]

Quote: Economics must be different where you come from. Where I come from you increase your price to cover the increased costs or you go out of business. Unquote


I am not sure where you studied economics, but you must live in a communist country.

In a capitalist economy, you must sell your product at a competitive price or you go out of business. You cannot simply add increased costs to your price (unless the costs are also increased for your competitors). That is why businesses always try to reduce their costs.

In any case, how much the Developer would have to absorb is not the issue here. The issue is tax increase for everybody versus impact-fee increase for the Developer.

[dewilson58]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:




Please share your popcorn..............the thread is funny and sad at the same time.

[Mikeod]

So, how is this any different from other municipalities, counties, or states that provide tax and other incentives to get companies to move into them? Certainly the tax shortfall created has to be addressed by a tax increase.

The Villages isn’t the only one building in Sumter. Perhaps the county was concerned raising impact fees across the board may discourage other builders and reduce potential tax revenue.

Perhaps the county saw an opportunity to dramatically increase its tax base through increased building of residential and commercial property and, at the same time, address the need for a comprehensive improvement in surface routes in the county.

And I don’t remember reading that the developer won’t also have to pay the increase on all his property, such as unsold homes, the squares, the commercial areas, etc. maybe I missed that.

To me, the only ones with a legitimate gripe are those living in other areas of the county that believes they are ignored in favor of Villages residents.

[TNGary]

I am going to start with a riddle: How can 5 guys screw 125,000 people--- Now I mean screw financially, not physically?

The answer to the riddle: Five guys can do this by getting elected to the Sumter County Board of Commissioners, with the support of the Developer and then financially screwing everybody in Sumter County-- except the Developer and the Developer's cronies. More specifically, these 5 guys are screwing Sumter County taxpayers by giving the Developer a sweetheart deal on IMPACT FEES, thereby offloading the costs of The Villages expansion on to Sumter County taxpayers and saving the Developer an incredible amount of money. That is what we saw happening on the evening of September 25 when the Developer toadies serving as County Commissioners screwed the Sumter County taxpayers with a 25% tax increase in order to benefit the Commissioners' patron, the Developer.

Remember the Developer put the County Commissioners in office via his “One Sumter” 2004 legislation; his campaign contributions; his propaganda organ, The Villages Daily Sun; and his promotion of directors and presidents from his front organization, the so-called Villages Homeowners Advocates (the VHA), to political office.

Until recently, I didn't know what an impact fee was. Now I do--no thanks to the September 24th front-page article in The Developer' Daily Sun, which purported to explain property taxes, but never mentions impact fees. According to Sumter County's own website: “An impact fee is a one time charge applied to new construction. The purpose of the fee is to fund capital projects for roads (such as construction, land acquisition, [sic]). Impact fees can be charges for parks, schools, jails, ambulances and other infrastructure needs that may occur due to new development.” An impact fee is paid by the builder of a new house when he gets his building permit.

If you are on a County Commission, and you want to do a favor for the guy who put you in office and that guy is a big developer, you set a REAL LOW impact fee. To put what's going on here in perspective, let's look at Collier County. In Collier County, where the Developer doesn't have the County Commissioners in his pocket, the builder of a house in a retirement community pays an impact fee of about $20,000 per house.

In Sumter County, the Developer pays an impact fee of $901 per house. I repeat $901 or about $19,000 per house less than he would pay if he built in Collier County. Stated differently the Developer is paying an impact fee of less than 5% of what he would pay in Collier County.

This sweetheart deal in Sumter County has been in place for years. Who has been making up for the lost county revenue, i.e., who has been making a gift to the Developer? We have, through higher county taxes.

Now the chickens have now REALLY come home to roost. The Villages is massively expanding, which is necessitating a corresponding massive expansion in roads and other infrastructure. 60,000 new houses times $19,000 per house (i.e., the difference between the Sumter County and Collier County impact-fee rates) means that the Developer will be paying impact fees of One Billion, One Hundred Forty Million Dollars less than he would pay in Collier County. BUT rather than increasing the Developer's low impact fees to cover the cost of the infrastructure expansion, the County Commissioners are increasing OUR taxes by 25%. (Incidentally, the One Billion, One Hundred Forty Million Dollar figure doesn't include the amount of the gift that the Developer has already received with respect to houses already built.) The Developer is certainly getting a good return on his campaign contributions-- at our expense.

The Daily Sun cites $348 as a typical tax increase. So remember, when you pay your taxes, you are essentially writing a check to the Developer for $348 (or whatever your actual tax increase is.)

Please mark your 2020 calendars on August 18 (the date of the Republican primary) and on November 3 (the date of the general election) as follows: VOTE OUT BUTLER, BURGESS, AND PRINTZ.

LET'S CLEAN UP SUMTER COUNTY GOVERNMENT

Good write-up and thanks for pulling this together. Regarding voting out the three names you mentioned, Please follow-up with the names of three replacement candidates that are on the same page as the Villages' residents.

[PrudentLifer]

Death and taxes, taxes and death.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Advogado]

So, how is this any different from other municipalities, counties, or states that provide tax and other incentives to get companies to move into them? Certainly the tax shortfall created has to be addressed by a tax increase.

The Villages isn’t the only one building in Sumter. Perhaps the county was concerned raising impact fees across the board may discourage other builders and reduce potential tax revenue.

Perhaps the county saw an opportunity to dramatically increase its tax base through increased building of residential and commercial property and, at the same time, address the need for a comprehensive improvement in surface routes in the county.

And I don’t remember reading that the developer won’t also have to pay the increase on all his property, such as unsold homes, the squares, the commercial areas, etc. maybe I missed that.

To me, the only ones with a legitimate gripe are those living in other areas of the county that believes they are ignored in favor of Villages residents.

Tax incentives are given to entice investment. No incentives were needed to get the Developer to invest here. In fact, the great majority of Sumter County residents would have been happy to see The Villages not expand further, as was originally promised.

What is going on here is nothing more than a gift to the Developer from his toadies on the County Commission, and it is indefensible.

[New Englander]

[QUOTE=TNGary;1685420]Good write-up and thanks for pulling this together. Regarding voting out the three names you mentioned, Please follow-up with the names of three replacement candidates that are on the same page as the l
Thanks.

Right now challengers are just starting to emerge. Hopefully, there will be some good ones. I am hoping that the POA will vet the challengers and make recommendations.

BTW,[B] I am surprised at the number of posters who defend the tax increase and the continuation of the low impact fee for the Developer.

I am a Republican, and this area is highly Republican. We are supposed to be against corporate welfare-- which is exactly what is being doled out here to the Developer. I guess some people just don't recognize it for what it is (or they are affiliated with the Developer-- a problem with the anonymous posts on this site).

I'm not.

[Velvet]

Because I would guess people working for sales etc have a vested interest and the TIME sitting in front of a computer during work hours, as compared to many Villagers enjoying recreation outside. I’m in my studio painting away happily with my iPad open. You get a very skewed sample at TOTV.

[Bogie Shooter]

Because I would guess people working for sales etc have a vested interest and the TIME sitting in front of a computer during work hours, as compared to many Villagers enjoying recreation outside. I’m in my studio painting away happily with my iPad open. You get a very skewed sample at TOTV.

:what:

[graciegirl]

Because I would guess people working for sales etc have a vested interest and the TIME sitting in front of a computer during work hours, as compared to many Villagers enjoying recreation outside. I’m in my studio painting away happily with my iPad open. You get a very skewed sample at TOTV.

I don't know if I agree or not, but I too painted a bit today...…….

[Velvet]

Love it! Mother and child are my favorite themes. And sea sides.

[Love2Swim]

I am not anonymously complaining. My name is listed above, and yours?

The point is that infrastructure expansion like we are experiencing is normally paid for by the developer responsible for it. Here the Developer's toadies on the Commission have not increased the per-existing impact fee (already a sweetheart rate) by 1 cent to cover it. They have increased taxes instead.

Don't you see what is going on or are you somehow connected with the Developer?

Scot, thank you for listing your name, and for your clear headed analysis. It is clear to me, that there are people on this forum that are very "pro" developer. They never, ever, let something go by that questions the developer without making excuses. Their posts look like advertisements for The Villages where the Developer is like a benign dictator that can do no wrong. Someone commented that a post "smelled like the POA". Thankfully, we have the POA to look out for us and give us a more balanced perspective of what is going on. I think, at least one poster on this board "smells like the Developer". And anyone who pays attention can easily figure out who that is. And that is okay, but people need to be cognizant and look at all sides of the equation before making up their minds.

[dewilson58]

ToTV (or at least this thread) is divided much like our country.


5% (or maybe 10%) on the extreme left with conspiracies, greed & corruption. 5% (or maybe 10%) on the extreme right with supporting the developer. Both sides very vocal.


With the vast majority in the middle observing "the wings" and many times being turned off by both.


The happy supporters, support after the fact. The unhappy residents & non-residents complain after the fact.




I'm a supporter of the developer, of the free market, of business success in general. Am I in the 5% (or 10%) right wingers as defined above........not sure, don't care.


There really shouldn't be much surprise here in Sumter County at the increase in taxes. If it's 10%, 20% or 30%.....it was coming. "You could see it coming" with no tax increases in over 10 years. If you didn't, shame on you.


Yes there is a debate of what Cities, Counties, States & Federal Governments should pay vs. private industries. Incentives are part of tax base growth at all levels. The only way to truly impact incentives are proactively, not after the fact.


There is much more Sumter County land out there to be developed. If change is needed, comments on this forum will not get it done.




Have a good day.

[eyc234]

There have been lots of post on this subject with a whole lot of hearsay, accusations, slander, half truths and animosity. If some of the accusations are true there should be charges brought, people going to jail and large fines. County commissioners have been accused of being in the pocket of the developer, this is bribery and is illegal punishable by fines, removal from office and jail time on both the commissioners and the developer. There should be facts and proof of this, correct? If not then it is slander, hearsay and lies. To slander anyone because you do not like what you perceive to be wrong with no proof is not right and not only hurts the person slandered but the family and associates of the person. Have said it before stick with facts and whole truths. Fully agree that there have been questionable decisions by the commissioners but accusations of crimes need to have proof. Making blanket statements across the board shows little insight, the statements that no cost for infrastructure installation during development is paid by taxpayers or longtime citizens living in community is blatantly false, just look at every NFL stadium built with taxpayer money. If that is not corporate welfare what is.

Need to stick to facts, whole truths, provable assertions and logic.

[eyc234]

ToTV (or at least this thread) is divided much like our country.


5% (or maybe 10%) on the extreme left with conspiracies, greed & corruption. 5% (or maybe 10%) on the extreme right with supporting the developer. Both sides very vocal.


With the vast majority in the middle observing "the wings" and many times being turned off by both.


The happy supporters, support after the fact. The unhappy residents & non-residents complain after the fact.




I'm a supporter of the developer, of the free market, of business success in general. Am I in the 5% (or 10%) right wingers as defined above........not sure, don't care.


There really shouldn't be much surprise here in Sumter County at the increase in taxes. If it's 10%, 20% or 30%.....it was coming. "You could see it coming" with no tax increases in over 10 years. If you didn't, shame on you.


Yes there is a debate of what Cities, Counties, States & Federal Governments should pay vs. private industries. Incentives are part of tax base growth at all levels. The only way to truly impact incentives are proactively, not after the fact.


There is much more Sumter County land out there to be developed. If change is needed, comments on this forum will not get it done.




Have a good day.

:bigbow::bigbow::bigbow:

[Advogado]

There have been lots of post on this subject with a whole lot of hearsay, accusations, slander, half truths and animosity. If some of the accusations are true there should be charges brought, people going to jail and large fines. County commissioners have been accused of being in the pocket of the developer, this is bribery and is illegal punishable by fines, removal from office and jail time on both the commissioners and the developer. There should be facts and proof of this, correct? If not then it is slander, hearsay and lies. To slander anyone because you do not like what you perceive to be wrong with no proof is not right and not only hurts the person slandered but the family and associates of the person. Have said it before stick with facts and whole truths. Fully agree that there have been questionable decisions by the commissioners but accusations of crimes need to have proof. Making blanket statements across the board shows little insight, the statements that no cost for infrastructure installation during development is paid by taxpayers or longtime citizens living in community is blatantly false, just look at every NFL stadium built with taxpayer money. If that is not corporate welfare what is.

Need to stick to facts, whole truths, provable assertions and logic.
If anything, anything at all, that I have written in this thread is incorrect, please call it to my attention and I will remedy the error.

[Advogado]

"Yes there is a debate of what Cities, Counties, States & Federal Governments should pay vs. private industries. Incentives are part of tax base growth at all levels. The only way to truly impact incentives are proactively, not after the fact."


To claim that incentives were necessary to entice the Developer to expand The Villages is absurd.

[graciegirl]

"Yes there is a debate of what Cities, Counties, States & Federal Governments should pay vs. private industries. Incentives are part of tax base growth at all levels. The only way to truly impact incentives are proactively, not after the fact."


To claim that incentives were necessary to entice the Developer to expand The Villages is absurd.

What is the percentage of developers, builders, paying for roads, infrastructure in this country compared to the city, county, state???

The expansion of the Villages does make the developer richer and it also provides work for thousands of people. People are moving to Florida in droves. Florida is now the THIRD most populous state in the union. Who wouldn't want to live here and who wouldn't want to live in The Villages.

Does the governing body of the POA still mostly have people living north of 466?

[njbchbum]

"Yes there is a debate of what Cities, Counties, States & Federal Governments should pay vs. private industries. Incentives are part of tax base growth at all levels. The only way to truly impact incentives are proactively, not after the fact."


To claim that incentives were necessary to entice the Developer to expand The Villages is absurd.

Where has ANY poster "claimed" that incentives were necessary for the Developer or that the Developer even sought them out? How much pressure is put on the Developer to bring more new housing/retail units into a local community in order to boost their tax base?

[njbchbum]

If anything, anything at all, that I have written in this thread is incorrect, please call it to my attention and I will remedy the error.

Perhaps you might reconsider the use of your descriptor 'toadie' re the Commissioners.

Should you not wish to, perhaps you would recognize yourself as a 'toadie' for the POA?

[New Englander]

I'm not a member of the POA. I am also not anti developer. I do understand we in Sumter County were overdue for a tax increase. But 25%?

The tax payers are paying more than their fair share. Is the developer paying their fare share for all this massive expansion?
I don't know the answer to this. I'm trying to find out as much as I can.

I hope the mods don't close this thread.

[Velvet]

ToTV (or at least this thread) is divided much like our country.


5% (or maybe 10%) on the extreme left with conspiracies, greed & corruption. 5% (or maybe 10%) on the extreme right with supporting the developer. Both sides very vocal.


With the vast majority in the middle observing "the wings" and many times being turned off by both.


The happy supporters, support after the fact. The unhappy residents & non-residents complain after the fact.




I'm a supporter of the developer, of the free market, of business success in general. Am I in the 5% (or 10%) right wingers as defined above........not sure, don't care.


There really shouldn't be much surprise here in Sumter County at the increase in taxes. If it's 10%, 20% or 30%.....it was coming. "You could see it coming" with no tax increases in over 10 years. If you didn't, shame on you.


Yes there is a debate of what Cities, Counties, States & Federal Governments should pay vs. private industries. Incentives are part of tax base growth at all levels. The only way to truly impact incentives are proactively, not after the fact.


There is much more Sumter County land out there to be developed. If change is needed, comments on this forum will not get it done.




Have a good day.


Interesting observation. But I am missing something I feel. Are there some homeowners that are not supporting the homeowner’s own interests? Why would wherever they are on the political spectrum make a difference? Why would someone not support their best interest?

[PrudentLifer]

The only "family" I support is my own. I don't understand the mentality of those who support a corporate entity which exists to make a profit and only to make a profit. "It" is not human.

[tophcfa]

ToTV (or at least this thread) is divided much like our country.


5% (or maybe 10%) on the extreme left with conspiracies, greed & corruption. 5% (or maybe 10%) on the extreme right with supporting the developer. Both sides very vocal.


With the vast majority in the middle observing "the wings" and many times being turned off by both.


The happy supporters, support after the fact. The unhappy residents & non-residents complain after the fact.



I'm a supporter of the developer, of the free market, of business success in general. Am I in the 5% (or 10%) right wingers as defined above........not sure, don't care.



Have a good day.

I am also a strong supporter of capitalism, the free markets, and business success in general. It is what has made our country great, and what made my career a success. I am also about as far to the right as you will ever find when it comes to fiscal responsibility. However, those beliefs don't make me a blind supporter of the developer, that has to be earned.

Going back about 3 years or longer, I was about as strong a supporter of the developer as ANYONE who regularly posts on TOV. The Villages run under the guidance of Gary Morse, and his father Harold Schwartz before him, earned my almost unconditional trust. In my opinion, they build the greatest retirement community in the world and were keenly focused on making it the best place possible for the residents. This business model worked great and resulted in both happy residents and very good profits for the developers.

About five years ago Gary Morse passed away and the next generation of the family took over operations. During the first couple of years after Gary's departure I opserved little to no change in the developers business model. However, over time, in my opinion, the new generation has begun to change the business model. Profit maximization seems to have leapfrogged resident happiness on their priority list. The tax increase discussed at nausium in this thread is the most obvious example of this. The new generation of the developers family has managed to eroded my almost unconditional trust. I sincerely hope this trend does not continue.

Please don't get me wrong, I still believe the Villages is the greatest retirement community in the world and wouldn't want to sell my home and relocate elsewhere. Even if the new generation of developers continues to operate under their revised business model, it will most likely take them my remaining life expectancy to whipe out the resident lifestyle advantage over other retirement communities that Harold Schwartz and Gary Morse created.

[eyc234]

:coolsmiley: I will be glad to do that. See below.

I am going to start with a riddle: How can 5 guys screw 125,000 people--- Now I mean screw financially, not physically?

The answer to the riddle: Five guys can do this by getting elected to the Sumter County Board of Commissioners, with the support of the Developer and then financially screwing everybody in Sumter County-- except the Developer and the Developer's cronies. More specifically, these 5 guys are screwing Sumter County taxpayers by giving the Developer a sweetheart deal on IMPACT FEES, thereby offloading the costs of The Villages expansion on to Sumter County taxpayers and saving the Developer an incredible amount of money. That is what we saw happening on the evening of September 25 when the Developer toadies serving as County Commissioners screwed the Sumter County taxpayers with a 25% tax increase in order to benefit the Commissioners' patron, the Developer. You have evidence not supposition or opinion that there is a deal between the developer and the commissioners?

Remember the Developer put the County Commissioners in office via his “One Sumter” 2004 legislation; his campaign contributions; his propaganda organ, The Villages Daily Sun; and his promotion of directors and presidents from his front organization, the so-called Villages Homeowners Advocates (the VHA), to political office. So the people in the county did not vote of a free will to put these citizens into the positions they hold?

Until recently, I didn't know what an impact fee was. Now I do--no thanks to the September 24th front-page article in The Developer' Daily Sun, which purported to explain property taxes, but never mentions impact fees. According to Sumter County's own website: “An impact fee is a one time charge applied to new construction. The purpose of the fee is to fund capital projects for roads (such as construction, land acquisition, [sic]). Impact fees can be charges for parks, schools, jails, ambulances and other infrastructure needs that may occur due to new development.” An impact fee is paid by the builder of a new house when he gets his building permit.

If you are on a County Commission, and you want to do a favor for the guy who put you in office and that guy is a big developer, you set a REAL LOW impact fee. To put what's going on here in perspective, let's look at Collier County. In Collier County, where the Developer doesn't have the County Commissioners in his pocket, the builder of a house in a retirement community pays an impact fee of about $20,000 per house. Again you are implying that there is an illegal deal going on, do you have proof and then call the authorities to investigate. If you have no proof of a brokered deal then it is not the truth.

In Sumter County, the Developer pays an impact fee of $901 per house. I repeat $901 or about $19,000 per house less than he would pay if he built in Collier County. Stated differently the Developer is paying an impact fee of less than 5% of what he would pay in Collier County.

This sweetheart deal in Sumter County has been in place for years. Who has been making up for the lost county revenue, i.e., who has been making a gift to the Developer? We have, through higher county taxes. Pretty easy on this one the third word says you are accusing of an illegal activity, do you have proof this exist. If not it is false.

Now the chickens have now REALLY come home to roost. The Villages is massively expanding, which is necessitating a corresponding massive expansion in roads and other infrastructure. 60,000 new houses times $19,000 per house (i.e., the difference between the Sumter County and Collier County impact-fee rates) means that the Developer will be paying impact fees of One Billion, One Hundred Forty Million Dollars less than he would pay in Collier County. BUT rather than increasing the Developer's low impact fees to cover the cost of the infrastructure expansion, the County Commissioners are increasing OUR taxes by 25%. (Incidentally, the One Billion, One Hundred Forty Million Dollar figure doesn't include the amount of the gift that the Developer has already received with respect to houses already built.) The Developer is certainly getting a good return on his campaign contributions-- at our expense.

The Daily Sun cites $348 as a typical tax increase. So remember, when you pay your taxes, you are essentially writing a check to the Developer for $348 (or whatever your actual tax increase is.)

Please mark your 2020 calendars on August 18 (the date of the Republican primary) and on November 3 (the date of the general election) as follows: VOTE OUT BUTLER, BURGESS, AND PRINTZ.

LET'S CLEAN UP SUMTER COUNTY GOVERNMENT



Again I do not see the developer or commissioners as being perfect or infallible. However this should not be a forum to pass innuendos, half truths, slanders or non provable facts.

[Bogie Shooter]

I am also a strong supporter of capitalism, the free markets, and business success in general. It is what has made our country great, and what made my career a success. I am also about as far to the right as you will ever find when it comes to fiscal responsibility. However, those beliefs don't make me a blind supporter of the developer, that has to be earned.

Going back about 3 years or longer, I was about as strong a supporter of the developer as ANYONE who regularly posts on TOV. The Villages run under the guidance of Gary Morse, and his father Harold Schwartz before him, earned my almost unconditional trust. In my opinion, they build the greatest retirement community in the world and were keenly focused on making it the best place possible for the residents. This business model worked great and resulted in both happy residents and very good profits for the developers.

About five years ago Gary Morse passed away and the next generation of the family took over operations. During the first couple of years after Gary's departure I opserved little to no change in the developers business model. However, over time, in my opinion, the new generation has begun to change the business model. Profit maximization seems to have leapfrogged resident happiness on their priority list. The tax increase discussed at nausium in this thread is the most obvious example of this. The new generation of the developers family has managed to eroded my almost unconditional trust. I sincerely hope this trend does not continue.

Please don't get me wrong, I still believe the Villages is the greatest retirement community in the world and wouldn't want to sell my home and relocate elsewhere. Even if the new generation of developers continues to operate under their revised business model, it will most likely take them my remaining life expectancy to whipe out the resident lifestyle advantage over other retirement communities that Harold Schwartz and Gary Morse created.
Would you concede that it is a new lifestyle in the new business model? Or what is the lifestyle being eliminated?

[Bogie Shooter]

:coolsmiley: I will be glad to do that. See below.





Again I do not see the developer or commissioners as being perfect or infallible. However this should not be a forum to pass innuendos, half truths, slanders or non provable facts.

points well taken!

[FenneyFanatic]

Am I the only one on here who is tired or negativity, anti-developer sentiment and overall grouchiness??

[Advogado]

Where has ANY poster "claimed" that incentives were necessary for the Developer or that the Developer even sought them out? How much pressure is put on the Developer to bring more new housing/retail units into a local community in order to boost their tax base?

If an investment would have been made without the governmental incentive, then the incentive is a gift of taxpayer money to the recipient.

[Advogado]

Would the posters who continue to defend the County Commissioners' further enriching the Developer at taxpayer expense please identify themselves so that we can tell if they are affiliated with the Developer or County Commissioners.

[graciegirl]

Am I the only one on here who is tired or negativity, anti-developer sentiment and overall grouchiness??

I am tired of it. I will be eighty in November and my health is not as vibrant as when I first arrived more than a dozen years ago. I think my senses aren't as good but I feel in some ways I can see though people better than ever.

I have nothing to gain. I don't know the Morses, a half brother lives down the street but I have never spoken to him directly even though I have been in the same place during three gatherings.. I know corporations don't have hearts, but families do have ethics.

I am betting that the Morses will continue to keep this wonderful place nice and to employ people and make money for themselves and keep the economy here stable.

I am so blessed that I am known to many people personally, who I am sure see me as an annoying old lady with too much time at the computer, but some still like me.

I have no ax to grind. Wait. Yes I do. I want to keep this place nice and the values of our property high too. I am old but I am not stupid.

[Advogado]

:coolsmiley: I will be glad to do that. See below.





Again I do not see the developer or commissioners as being perfect or infallible. However this should not be a forum to pass innuendos, half truths, slanders or non provable facts.

There is an applicable Latin term: res ipsa loquitur, which means "the thing speaks for itself".

It is obvious what is going on when the County Commissioners vote for a property-tax increase on residents instead of an impact-fee increase on the Developer. If you cannot see what is going on here, you are either turning a blind eye toward the obvious or you are affiliated with the Developer or County Commissioners. Would you please identify yourself. I have.

In case you are not aware, County Commissioners in Florida have a sordid history. For examples, simply Google: “Florida county commissioner bribe.” Nevertheless, I have never said that anything illegal was done in this case, and I have no evidence of illegality. Bottom line: legal or not, what was done here stinks.

[Advogado]

I am tired of it. I will be eighty in November and my health is not as vibrant as when I first arrived more than a dozen years ago. I think my senses aren't as good but I feel in some ways I can see though people better than ever.

I have nothing to gain. I don't know the Morses, a half brother lives down the street but I have never spoken to him directly even though I have been in the same place during three gatherings.. I know corporations don't have hearts, but families do have ethics.

I am betting that the Morses will continue to keep this wonderful place nice and to employ people and make money for themselves and keep the economy here stable.

I am so blessed that I am known to many people personally, who I am sure see me as an annoying old lady with too much time at the computer, but some still like me.

I have no ax to grind. Wait. Yes I do. I want to keep this place nice and the values of our property high too. I am old but I am not stupid.

I agree that this is a nice place to live, I am close to your age, and I like living here. All of which has nothing to do with the tax increase.
We are essentially writing a check to the Developer every year in the amount of our tax increase. If you are ok with that, then your devotion to the Developer is well founded.

[Advogado]

Perhaps you might reconsider the use of your descriptor 'toadie' re the Commissioners.

Should you not wish to, perhaps you would recognize yourself as a 'toadie' for the POA?

If I am a toadie for anybody, I am a toadie for the taxpayers of Sumter County. Would you please identify yourself so that we can determine if you are a toadie for the Developer or Commissioners.

[graciegirl]

If I am a toadie for anybody, I am a toadie for the taxpayers of Sumter County. Would you please identify yourself so that we can determine if you are a toadie for the Developer or Commissioners.

She isn't anybody's "toadie". She is a smart and intelligent and successful woman who has one of her homes here.

[CWGUY]

Am I the only one on here who is tired or negativity, anti-developer sentiment and overall grouchiness??

:ho: No you are not!

[FenneyFanatic]

I will not spend one minute of the time I have left complaining about the business dealings of a developer that created and maintains the finest active retirement community in the world! There's so many better ways to spend the time.

[Velvet]

I can see how the 25% increase went down now.

[dewilson58]

Am I the only one on here who is tired or negativity, anti-developer sentiment and overall grouchiness??






It's sad and they are sad people.


The grouches are sad and want to bring everyone else down to they world.


This forum will not generate support for them, it will not change the 25% increase, it will not change anything. They just need to spread their sh^t.


Some are taking aim at the current generation as greedy. It wasn't the third generation who made the first BILLION dollars, it was the prior generations. They made it by purchasing the land cheap and then selling the land at cost, plus a $1Bil profit to The Villages, then issuing the bonds...........the bonds the IRS did not like.


Being happy is just more fun.

[FenneyFanatic]

:clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::bigbow::clap2: :clap2::clap2::clap2:

[Love2Swim]

Anywhere else, if residents were hit by a 25% tax increase, citizens would be up in arms. Here, on TOTV, the regulars can’t seem to find a problem with it, and, even worse, are bashing those who question it. Unbelievable. I’m hoping that people like you are in the minority, and that common sense will prevail in the future, when the taxpayers vote those responsible for the tax increase out of office.

[dewilson58]

Anywhere else, if residents were hit by a 25% tax increase, citizens would be up in arms. Here, on TOTV, the regulars can’t seem to find a problem with it, and, even worse, are bashing those who question it. Unbelievable.






:mademyday:

[Love2Swim]

I brought up Impact fees when I first heard of this tax increase. I am from a county in Southwest Florida, where the Commissioners were also in the pockets of the developers. Taxes held pretty steady until the Commissioners dropped the impact fees, then our taxes went up. The Commissioner's response was that impact fees would stymy growth. I moved to that county when the population was around 150,000 people. Today there are close to 800,000 people, and it's a parking lot on the roadways, even in the summer.

Personal responsibility means that those who are impacting the roads and schools and other areas should be the one's paying for their impact, not the people who already live in a community. We need leaders, not puppets.

:bigbow:

[eyc234]

Anywhere else, if residents were hit by a 25% tax increase, citizens would be up in arms. Here, on TOTV, the regulars can’t seem to find a problem with it, and, even worse, are bashing those who question it. Unbelievable. I’m hoping that people like you are in the minority, and that common sense will prevail in the future, when the taxpayers vote those responsible for the tax increase out of office.

Did not get hit with 25%, only 12 and had 15 years of no increases. Taxes are still lower than a majority of places. When you vote them out you will still have the same issue, not enough money to run the county. If you raise the fee on the developer you raise the fee on all builders. I am sure the small builders will love that.

[dewilson58]

Did not get hit with 25%, only 12 and had 15 years of no increases. Taxes are still lower than a majority of places. When you vote them out you will still have the same issue, not enough money to run the county. If you raise the fee on the developer you raise the fee on all builders. I am sure the small builders will love that.






Facts & Logic..................nice addition to this thread.




:clap2:

[Velvet]

What might make the tax increase more palatable, just saying, if those who were asked to pay it received more services for themselves in return.

[manaboutown]

Did not get hit with 25%, only 12 and had 15 years of no increases. Taxes are still lower than a majority of places. When you vote them out you will still have the same issue, not enough money to run the county. If you raise the fee on the developer you raise the fee on all builders. I am sure the small builders will love that.

Perhaps taxes on individual houses have remained level or even diminished over an extended period of time because most of the infrastructure for buildout on the land owned/controlled by the developer was already in place through some prior financial arrangement such as the municipal bonds that were not truly municipal bonds. Every new house that was built over this period of time added to tax revenue and of course had a bond lien placed on it when sold to cover water, sewer, utilities, streets, etc.. For example, if 2,000 houses were built in a year and the average property tax on each was $3,000, these new houses collectively would add $6,000,000 to property tax revenue every single year from that year forward. As many thousands of houses have been built every year over the last 10 to 12 years total county tax revenue has enormously increased every year, even if tax rates have remained the same or been slightly reduced.

Now, acres and acres of newly acquired raw land, essentially enough land to double the size of The Villages, require infrastructure to be put in place before houses can be built and sold. What to do? Where can the money be found. Aha! We can increase the tax rates on the existing homes all over Sumter County. Let the taxpayers pick up the bill. Why not? What a great idea? If we do it right they may grumble but they won't be able to stop us...

[eyc234]

There is an applicable Latin term: res ipsa loquitur, which means "the thing speaks for itself".

It is obvious what is going on when the County Commissioners vote for a property-tax increase on residents instead of an impact-fee increase on the Developer. If you cannot see what is going on here, you are either turning a blind eye toward the obvious or you are affiliated with the Developer or County Commissioners. Would you please identify yourself. I have.

In case you are not aware, County Commissioners in Florida have a sordid history. For examples, simply Google: “Florida county commissioner bribe.” Nevertheless, I have never said that anything illegal was done in this case, and I have no evidence of illegality. Bottom line: legal or not, what was done here stinks.

You miss the fact I was stating. You again make an innuendo that something illegal is going on between the developer and the county commissioners above. All I asked is do you have proof or evidence submissable in court to prosecute for these nefarious deeds. This is a country that the legal system still says you are innocent until proven guilty even if that is not what people like. As far as the history of bad county commissioners, I go further and do not trust any politician. But I will not condemn, slander, post half truths, make innuendos or degrade people without knowing the truth backed up by facts. Your bottom line is an opinion and for some, mostly those outside TV it will be a burden that should be looked to assist them with relief/assistance.

If you would like to speak with me feel free to send me a private message and I will be glad to speak with you about myself. Believe me I am not nor ever have been in any way connected to the developer or any government entity.

[PrudentLifer]

Did not get hit with 25%, only 12 and had 15 years of no increases. Taxes are still lower than a majority of places. When you vote them out you will still have the same issue, not enough money to run the county. If you raise the fee on the developer you raise the fee on all builders. I am sure the small builders will love that.



Unless the bond is satisfied. The increase would of course be at a much higher percentage.

[perrjojo]

Been reading anti developer from the same source for many years.

I am not and have not ever been anti developer but this is a new generation of the developers family and I am not liking what I am seeing. It’s is not so much greed for money but greed for power. Look at the impending changes to the Wildwood city charter.

[Love2Swim]

Perhaps taxes on individual houses have remained level or even diminished over an extended period of time because most of the infrastructure for buildout on the land owned/controlled by the developer was already in place through some prior financial arrangement such as the municipal bonds that were not truly municipal bonds. Every new house that was built over this period of time added to tax revenue and of course had a bond lien placed on it when sold to cover water, sewer, utilities, streets, etc.. For example, if 2,000 houses were built in a year and the average property tax on each was $3,000, these new houses collectively would add $6,000,000 to property tax revenue every single year from that year forward. As many thousands of houses have been built every year over the last 10 to 12 years total county tax revenue has enormously increased every year, even if tax rates have remained the same or been slightly reduced.

Now, acres and acres of newly acquired raw land, essentially enough land to double the size of The Villages, require infrastructure to be put in place before houses can be built and sold. What to do? Where can the money be found. Aha! We can increase the tax rates on the existing homes all over Sumter County. Let the taxpayers pick up the bill. Why not? What a great idea? If we do it right they may grumble but they won't be able to stop us...


Thank you for providing facts, and logic.

[perrjojo]

I am also a strong supporter of capitalism, the free markets, and business success in general. It is what has made our country great, and what made my career a success. I am also about as far to the right as you will ever find when it comes to fiscal responsibility. However, those beliefs don't make me a blind supporter of the developer, that has to be earned.

Going back about 3 years or longer, I was about as strong a supporter of the developer as ANYONE who regularly posts on TOV. The Villages run under the guidance of Gary Morse, and his father Harold Schwartz before him, earned my almost unconditional trust. In my opinion, they build the greatest retirement community in the world and were keenly focused on making it the best place possible for the residents. This business model worked great and resulted in both happy residents and very good profits for the developers.

About five years ago Gary Morse passed away and the next generation of the family took over operations. During the first couple of years after Gary's departure I opserved little to no change in the developers business model. However, over time, in my opinion, the new generation has begun to change the business model. Profit maximization seems to have leapfrogged resident happiness on their priority list. The tax increase discussed at nausium in this thread is the most obvious example of this. The new generation of the developers family has managed to eroded my almost unconditional trust. I sincerely hope this trend does not continue.

Please don't get me wrong, I still believe the Villages is the greatest retirement community in the world and wouldn't want to sell my home and relocate elsewhere. Even if the new generation of developers continues to operate under their revised business model, it will most likely take them my remaining life expectancy to whipe out the resident lifestyle advantage over other retirement communities that Harold Schwartz and Gary Morse created.
You have expressed my thoughts exactly. This is no longer the Harold Schwartz/Gary Morse modelmfor The Villages. Change is inevitable but not always for the best outcome.

[dewilson58]

Thank you for providing facts, and logic.






Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.





:a040:

[perrjojo]

This thread is about the impact of tax increases on Villagers. What about the rest of Sumter who will be paying this increase as well? For the most part others in Sumter County really dislike Villagers. This tax increase will be a giant burden on many of them and they are not reaping the benefits. I want to be a good neighbor and know that ALL of Sumter County is benefiting from this tax increase. I want all of Sumter to know that we are not the self-important, entitled folks that most think we are.

[Velvet]

Well, that is another thing to consider, and, does anyone care about them?

[manaboutown]

The remainder of Sumter County has historically been one of the poorer parts of Florida. Even what may be to some if not most Villagers a trivial tax increase likely will be felt deeply by these folks. The 'One Sumter' essentially stripped them of electing any councilor(s) and having any representation at all in how the county is operated.

[Challenger]

The remainder of Sumter County has historically been one of the poorer parts of Florida. Even what may be to some if not most Villagers a trivial tax increase likely will be felt deeply by these folks. The 'One Sumter' essentially stripped them of electing any councilor(s) and having any representation at all in how the county is operated.

good points. However three very poor towns have now become flushed with money from tax revenues generated within the boundaries of the Villages. TV does not need the same Police protection per home as most of the rest of the county. Population of 125,000+/- and very small school costs. I'm willing to listen to the arguments but there is so much misunderstanding and wrong info on this thread

[Velvet]

My bad (Velvet slaps her wrist). Thank you for caring about them.

[Bogie Shooter]

The remainder of Sumter County has historically been one of the poorer parts of Florida. Even what may be to some if not most Villagers a trivial tax increase likely will be felt deeply by these folks. The 'One Sumter' essentially stripped them of electing any councilor(s) and having any representation at all in how the county is operated.
How has that changed since The Villages? Whole lot of them poor people now have good jobs. Just sayin....

[perrjojo]

Well, that is another thing to consider, and, does anyone care about them?

I hope so!

[perrjojo]

How has that changed since The Villages? Whole lot of them poor people now have good jobs. Just sayin....
Yes, it has changed for some but only some.

[manaboutown]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.





:a040:


Indeed.

The Villages copied and over time improved upon on Del Webb's inventive Sun City concept. Buy cheap land outside a city, build a senior community of closely spaced small houses, provide golf courses, rec centers and a shopping center. Even allow driving around the community in golf carts. The original Sun City opened 01/01/1960. Sun City, Arizona - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_City,_Arizona)

I have posted these before. Some have enjoyed watching them as have I. Notice how they drive around in golf carts at times.

Del Webb Sun City AZ Promo The Beginning Part I - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxZH_WTRVNU)

Del Webb Sun City AZ Promo - The Beginning Part 2.wmv - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ki5-aDvC2kw)

[Carla B]

Yes, it has changed for some but only some.

Yes, and affordable housing for the workforce required to run this vast place hasn't kept up.

[Northwoods]

I love living here. I think The Developer has created an amazing place to live. I don't have an issue with The Developer making money. BUT - I don't want to pay more than my fair share. Do I think "government" in Sumter County could use a little more oversight and "scrutiny"? Yes. I think The Developer might not be paying their fair share. But do I want to replace current Commissioners with people who want to screw the Developer at every turn? No.
So I want to make sure I vote for people who are knowledgeable about government. Know how to be fair and reasonable. Know how to negotiate.

[PrudentLifer]

Yes, and affordable housing for the workforce required to run this vast place hasn't kept up.



That's about to change with the vast amount of housing planned across from Pinellas Plaza on 466A.

[Challenger]

I love living here. I think The Developer has created an amazing place to live. I don't have an issue with The Developer making money. BUT - I don't want to pay more than my fair share. Do I think "government" in Sumter County could use a little more oversight and "scrutiny"? Yes. I think The Developer might not be paying their fair share. But do I want to replace current Commissioners with people who want to screw the Developer at every turn? No.
So I want to make sure I vote for people who are knowledgeable about government. Know how to be fair and reasonable. Know how to negotiate.

entirely too reasonable. Try again.

[Two Bills]

Did not get hit with 25%, only 12 and had 15 years of no increases. Taxes are still lower than a majority of places. When you vote them out you will still have the same issue, not enough money to run the county. If you raise the fee on the developer you raise the fee on all builders. I am sure the small builders will love that.

I thought the argument was to raise the Developer's fee to nearer what the small builder has to pay?

[Love2Swim]

I love living here. I think The Developer has created an amazing place to live. I don't have an issue with The Developer making money. BUT - I don't want to pay more than my fair share. Do I think "government" in Sumter County could use a little more oversight and "scrutiny"? Yes. I think The Developer might not be paying their fair share. But do I want to replace current Commissioners with people who want to screw the Developer at every turn? No.
So I want to make sure I vote for people who are knowledgeable about government. Know how to be fair and reasonable. Know how to negotiate.

I don't think a single person wants to vote in people who want to "screw the developer" at every turn. But we'd like to have people who will represent US and have OUR interests at heart, not the developer's.

[dewilson58]

Realistically Impact Fees don't impact the Developer.


IF the Impact Fee tripled, the Developer would just increase the price of the new houses by $2k. This would not slow sales. Every house in Southern Oaks would have sold if the price was $2k higher.


The Developer will make their 30% margin with a $1,000 Impact Fee or a $3,000 Impact Fee. It has nothing to do with Developer greed...............they will make their margins and they will continue to sell their new homes.


A friend is moving from an area by 466a to Southern Oaks. They have signed on the line. Construction will not start until February. What a great back-log. $2,000 additional fee would not have impacted the Developer.


Look for greed, controlling the commissioner, fraud some where else.




:ho:

[eyc234]

I don't think a single person wants to vote in people who want to "screw the developer" at every turn. But we'd like to have people who will represent US and have OUR interests at heart, not the developer's.

I would think citizens would be looking for people that are fair on both sides of the fence. Looking at the facts, the needs of all and working for the best compromise that will benefit the most for society as a whole. That is an extremely tall order now days but we can dream.:pray:

[Advogado]

Realistically Impact Fees don't impact the Developer.


IF the Impact Fee tripled, the Developer would just increase the price of the new houses by $2k. This would not slow sales. Every house in Southern Oaks would have sold if the price was $2k higher.


The Developer will make their 30% margin with a $1,000 Impact Fee or a $3,000 Impact Fee. It has nothing to do with Developer greed...............they will make their margins and they will continue to sell their new homes.


A friend is moving from an area by 466a to Southern Oaks. They have signed on the line. Construction will not start until February. What a great back-log. $2,000 additional fee would not have impacted the Developer.


Look for greed, controlling the commissioner, fraud some where else.




:ho:
I'm not sure where you studied economics or ran a business, but before retirement you must have lived in a communist country. In a capitalistic one, competition prevents a seller from simply upping his price to cover increased costs.

The Developer would have had to absorb some or all of the increased impact fees. That is why he had his County Commissioners raise our taxes instead of his impact fees.

In any event, no matter how much of the fees he would have had to absorb, the cost of the increased infrastructure would not have fallen on the existing Sumter County taxpayers.

[bonrich]

Then there those of us who are not full time residents of Florida, some by choice and others by personal obligations. We have to pay the same taxes as residents and because we cannot get the Homestead deduction, pay more. Our costs to live here, albeit part time, still go on when we are away from Florida. Resident and nonresident costs continue no matter where you live. We have no say in what is going on in Sumter County as far as taxes, Commissioners, etc. We are the flotsam and jetsam of Sumter County, equal in all, but no say in our future and have to live with what is decided by full timers. All those potential votes that cannot be counted, but the money we pay for the taxes are.
Frustrating is one word to use...…..

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I'm not sure where you studied economics or ran a business, but before retirement you must have lived in a communist country. In a capitalistic one, competition prevents a seller from simply upping his price to cover increased costs.

The Developer would have had to absorb some or all of the increased impact fees. That is why he had his County Commissioners raise our taxes instead of his impact fees.

In any event, no matter how much of the fees he would have had to absorb, the cost of the increased infrastructure would not have fallen on the existing Sumter County taxpayers.

I think you're both missing the point. Raising an impact fee to $2000 gets passed to the homeowner. That's fine. The homeowner is now on the hook for an extra $1100 (since there's already a $900 fee built in).

So when he buys the home, then $2000 of the sales price covers the cost of the impact fee. No biggie. Why? Here's why:

Compare to the TAX INCREASE:

The homeowner now pays an extra $xxx (average almost $400) PER YEAR until he sells his home. If he lives in that home 10 years, he's just paid (an average of) $4000 for the same "cost" that the developer would have only paid $2000 for.

The homeowner gets screwed by way of continual costs. The impact fee is a one-time fee. The tax is yearly.

[FenneyFanatic]

:bigbow::bigbow::bigbow:

[manaboutown]

IMHO due to the extensive size of the new development and the necessary upgrading of roads and more in existing developed areas an enormous amount of 'up front' money is needed - and needed NOW! I suppose bonds could be issued to raise money but they could not be tax free municipal bonds and would need to pay a higher rate of interest to be successfully marketed to the public as taxable bonds. I don't believe waiting on house by house impact fee payments however much they might be is a viable option to obtain the millions of up front dollars needed as some infrastructure will need to be in place prior to the first house being built. So, perhaps some genius with the developer proposed the huge countywide tax increase to fund the required infrastructure and the councilors bought it.

[tophcfa]

Realistically Impact Fees don't impact the Developer.


IF the Impact Fee tripled, the Developer would just increase the price of the new houses by $2k. This would not slow sales. Every house in Southern Oaks would have sold if the price was $2k higher.


The Developer will make their 30% margin with a $1,000 Impact Fee or a $3,000 Impact Fee. It has nothing to do with Developer greed...............they will make their margins and they will continue to sell their new homes.


A friend is moving from an area by 466a to Southern Oaks. They have signed on the line. Construction will not start until February. What a great back-log. $2,000 additional fee would not have impacted the Developer.


Look for greed, controlling the commissioner, fraud some where else.




:ho:

I am trying to follow your logic, if what you are saying is true then why wouldn't the developer gladly pay the impact fee and simply pass it on to the new homes sale price while maintaining their profit margin? I highly doubt pi$$ing off the majority of existing residents with a huge tax increase is something the developers would do if it had no impact on profits?

I keep asking myself, would this have happened if Gary Morse was still alive and running operations?

[Advogado]

I am trying to follow your logic, if what you are saying is true then why wouldn't the developer gladly pay the impact fee and simply pass it on to the new homes sale price while maintaining their profit margin? I highly doubt pi$$ing off the majority of existing residents with a huge tax increase is something the developers would do if it had no impact on profits?

I keep asking myself, would this have happened if Gary Morse was still alive and running operations?

You can't follow the logic because there is no logic to follow. Your analysis is absolutely correct.

[dewilson58]

I am trying to follow your logic, if what you are saying is true then why wouldn't the developer gladly pay the impact fee and simply pass it on to the new homes sale price while maintaining their profit margin? I highly doubt pi$$ing off the majority of existing residents with a huge tax increase is something the developers would do if it had no impact on profits?

I keep asking myself, would this have happened if Gary Morse was still alive and running operations?




You are too far into the conspiracy camp.....thinking the Developer controls commissioners and tax increases.


The Impact Fee is/was set, why would a business go to the county and ask for an increase?? If the county doesn't do it, TV houses are cheaper.


As I said, the developer will maintain their 30% margin.


:ho:

[njbchbum]

Yes, and affordable housing for the workforce required to run this vast place hasn't kept up.

Why should the developer be obligated to build housing for the workforce?

[graciegirl]

Why should the developer be obligated to build housing for the workforce?

There is affordable housing available here. Everywhere around here.The developer provides jobs for the workforce. The workforce gets a paycheck and they can provide themselves with affordable housing.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

When posting opinions about this topic, I notice that the people who are against development impact fees imposed against the developers, are basically speaking exclusively on behalf of themselves as Villagers. The people who are in favor of increased impact fees are speaking on behalf of themselves as residents of the County, or sympathetic to residents of the County (which would be me, since I am not a resident of Sumter County but remain sympathetic to their situation).

So once again - "me" vs. "us." Pro-impact fee embraces a unified county. Anti-impact fee embraces division.

[graciegirl]

Yes, and affordable housing for the workforce required to run this vast place hasn't kept up.

There are many, many, many, homes in adjacent communities that are very affordable for almost everyone.

Here is an example when I googled Leesburg.
https://www.point2homes.com/US/Cheap-Homes-For-Sale/FL/Leesburg.html

[tophcfa]

You are too far into the conspiracy camp.....thinking the Developer controls commissioners and tax increases.


The Impact Fee is/was set, why would a business go to the county and ask for an increase?? If the county doesn't do it, TV houses are cheaper.


As I said, the developer will maintain their 30% margin.


:ho:

OK, let's assume you are correct, that begs the next obvious question that has no logical answer. Why would the county representatives make a total sham out of the budget process, totally ignoring the input and showing utter disrespect to the taxpayers who attempted to engage in the process. Why did they not listen to the residents concerns and consider raising the impact fees as opposed to a 25% tax increase? I highly doubt that between all 5 representatives, at least one of them wasn't aware that was an option that could be considered and discussed as an alternative to a huge tax increase? Now if that happened, the process might have been viewed as somewhat on the up and up.

I know you keep mentioning that people need to be involved in the process before the increase, not complain after. Many taxpayers, including myself, ATTEMPTED TO GET INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS, but quickly learned the process was not a real process, the county was simple holding the meetings required by law and ignoring all taxpayer input in opposition of their proposal. That does way more bad than good, since now people have no confidence in the process and are less likely to get involved in the future. Very sad!

[Advogado]

OK, let's assume you are correct, that begs the next obvious question that has no logical answer. Why would the county representatives make a total sham out of the budget process, totally ignoring the input and showing utter disrespect to the taxpayers who attempted to engage in the process. Why did they not listen to the residents concerns and consider raising the impact fees as opposed to a 25% tax increase? I highly doubt that between all 5 representatives, at least one of them wasn't aware that was an option that could be considered and discussed as an alternative to a huge tax increase? Now if that happened, the process might have been viewed as somewhat on the up and up.

I know you keep mentioning that people need to be involved in the process before the increase, not complain after. Many taxpayers, including myself, ATTEMPTED TO GET INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS, but quickly learned the process was not a real process, the county was simple holding the meetings required by law and ignoring all taxpayer input in opposition of their proposal. That does way more bad than good, since now people have no confidence in the process and are less likely to get involved in the future. Very sad!

I would bet that none of the anonymous posters who, either naively or because of some connection with the Developer, defend what the Commissioners have done to the taxpayers of Sumter County in order to benefit the Developer attended the two public meetings you describe. What we saw there was both disgusting and demoralizing. The “fix” was clearly in.

Hopefully, you are wrong about Sumter County residents thereby becoming “less likely to get involved in the future”. Hopefully, they will turn out in droves in the Republican primary next August and in the general election thereafter and vote the bums out.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

OK, let's assume you are correct, that begs the next obvious question that has no logical answer. Why would the county representatives make a total sham out of the budget process, totally ignoring the input and showing utter disrespect to the taxpayers who attempted to engage in the process. Why did they not listen to the residents concerns and consider raising the impact fees as opposed to a 25% tax increase? I highly doubt that between all 5 representatives, at least one of them wasn't aware that was an option that could be considered and discussed as an alternative to a huge tax increase? Now if that happened, the process might have been viewed as somewhat on the up and up.

I know you keep mentioning that people need to be involved in the process before the increase, not complain after. Many taxpayers, including myself, ATTEMPTED TO GET INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS, but quickly learned the process was not a real process, the county was simple holding the meetings required by law and ignoring all taxpayer input in opposition of their proposal. That does way more bad than good, since now people have no confidence in the process and are less likely to get involved in the future. Very sad!

As in most elections - the majority of people eligible to vote in the previous ones, were either not registered, or registered but didn't vote. MOST eligible people don't vote, for anyone, at all.

Hopefully this situation will encourage more people to vote, not fewer. Now they know the results of their inaction.

[eyc234]

As I have stated before I have neither a county or developer preference, just a need to stay openminded with eyes and thoughts to the best answer for as many people as can be. Keep facts out there, not opinions, hearsay and the whole truth with a little bit of optimism and also a fair bit of vigilance. Attached below is the link to 2019 Florida Impact Fee Act. I know it is a little hard to read but it also can answer questions/statements that have been posed in this thread. After reading this then go download the Sumter county budget and read it. It is very long and detailed and a great way for an old CPA to spend time in front of The View(aaaaagh). The Act has quite a few things you can and can not do. Have fun and let us know what you say after reading them both. There are a lot of possibilities to for making the future better for the county and that should be the focus. Remember a higher impact fee is a one time payment, if there are no houses built after x date what do you do to finance the future of this county. Have blasted many companies in the past who fired workforce and then said look we made money this year, first question is how are you going to make money next year, fire the employees that are left or think outside the box for new products, ongoing savings, new clients, etc... Remember that you can not look solely at yourself and your neighbors to determine the effects something will have but on the county/society as a whole. Go ahead I am ready for the bashing that will come but hopefully logical and workable solutions come about for as many as possible.

Statutes & Constitution
:View Statutes
:

Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0100-0199/0163/Sections/0163.31801.html)

[Velvet]

Assume there are 50,000 homes in Sumter county, and taxes increased by say, $400 (my very average residence went up by $600) that means someone just collected an extra $20 million dollars.

[eyc234]

I would bet that none of the anonymous posters who, either naively or because of some connection with the Developer, defend what the Commissioners have done to the taxpayers of Sumter County in order to benefit the Developer attended the two public meetings you describe. What we saw there was both disgusting and demoralizing. The “fix” was clearly in.

Hopefully, you are wrong about Sumter County residents thereby becoming “less likely to get involved in the future”. Hopefully, they will turn out in droves in the Republican primary next August and in the general election thereafter and vote the bums out.

Attended both and the presentations/workshops on trash and recycling. Nothing demoralizes me, it only makes me work harder to work to fix the issues. I ask also whether it has to be Republican, could there never be a good Democrat candidate? This from someone who says throw them all out at each election and is a member of neither party.

Also please send me a note and I will be glad to speak with you.

[Advogado]

Attended both and the presentations/workshops on trash and recycling. Nothing demoralizes me, it only makes me work harder to work to fix the issues. I ask also whether it has to be Republican, could there never be a good Democrat candidate? This from someone who says throw them all out at each election and is a member of neither party.

Also please send me a note and I will be glad to speak with you.

As a practical matter, a Democrat is not going to get elected in Sumter County. An independent maybe. I personally don't care about party affiliation at the county-commissioner level. I just want commissioners who are competent, honest, and independent of the Developer. (And to head off responses: The Villages is a great place to live, and I don't want to screw the Developer. I just want him to pay for his own expansion.)

[graciegirl]

As a practical matter, a Democrat is not going to get elected in Sumter County. An independent maybe. I personally don't care about party affiliation at the county-commissioner level. I just want commissioners who are competent, honest, and independent of the Developer. (And to head off responses: The Villages is a great place to live, and I don't want to screw the Developer. I just want him to pay for his own expansion.)

The POA Bulletin, just picked up in our driveway takes me back to the negativity of days of yore.

[manaboutown]

The POA Bulletin, just picked up in our driveway takes me back to the negativity of days of yore.

Please do not mistake objectivity for negativity. That $40,000,000 settlement the POA won from the developer says it all.

[Advogado]

[QUOTE=graciegirl;1685960]The POA Bulletin, just picked up in our driveway takes me back to the negativity of days of yore.[/QUOTE


Hopefully it also brings you back to reality.

[PrudentLifer]

I've never understood the reasoning behind those who constantly side with entities who don't have their best self interest. Or is it not a reasoning but an emotion?

[VApeople]

I've never understood the reasoning behind those who constantly side with entities who don't have their best self interest.

So how do we know if an entity has our best interest at heart?

Tha answer is to look at what that entity does. Many of us look at The Villages and see a wonderful place for us to live. We look at the Southern Area and see new things, like walking trails, that we wish we had in our area. It seems like The Villages management is making things better than ever, and that is why we support them.

If we did not like what we see, we would not support them. Simple as that.

[ColdNoMore]

Why? Because it is well thought out and presented in a factual manner?

Yep...you nailed it. :thumbup:

The POA deals in facts/research/truth and as we know, there are a whole lot of people...who have a serious allergy to such. :ohdear:

[Advogado]

So how do we know if an entity has our best interest at heart?

Tha answer is to look at what that entity does. Many of us look at The Villages and see a wonderful place for us to live. We look at the Southern Area and see new things, like walking trails, that we wish we had in our area. It seems like The Villages management is making things better than ever, and that is why we support them.

If we did not like what we see, we would not support them. Simple as that.
I don't think anybody is disputing that The Villages is nice place to live.

The question is: Who should pay for the infrastructure necessary because of the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages: the Developer, who initiated, and will profit from, the expansion, OR the Sumter County taxpayers, who will not profit from it and generally oppose it? The answer should be obvious.

[PrudentLifer]

So how do we know if an entity has our best interest at heart?

Tha answer is to look at what that entity does. Many of us look at The Villages and see a wonderful place for us to live. We look at the Southern Area and see new things, like walking trails, that we wish we had in our area. It seems like The Villages management is making things better than ever, and that is why we support them.

If we did not like what we see, we would not support them. Simple as that.



The Buena Vista extension is not an amenity. Why should we pay for it? They also don't build nice amenities because they like us or they want us to have nice things, they do it to attract buyers. They don't need our support, only our money. I don't "support" GM but I like their Escalade. It's a nice SUV. With or without my support it would still be a nice SUV.

[njbchbum]

The Buena Vista extension is not an amenity. Why should we pay for it?

Because it benefits Sumter County and you live in Sumter County? Just a thought!

[PrudentLifer]

Because it benefits Sumter County and you live in Sumter County? Just a thought!



It wouldn't need to be built if there weren't any houses going in. Who's building the houses that need egress? Not Sumter County. Not me or you. Let Morse pay for the road.

[tophcfa]

The Buena Vista extension is not an amenity. Why should we pay for it? They also don't build nice amenities because they like us or they want us to have nice things, they do it to attract buyers. They don't need our support, only our money. I don't "support" GM but I like their Escalade. It's a nice SUV. With or without my support it would still be a nice SUV.

We are paying for it with property taxes, not amenity fees. Why should we pay for it, well that's a good question. In my opinion we shouldn't. Without the development of the Villages South, the extension would not be necessary. Those who stand to benefit from the new development should also be responsible for paying for the infrastructure that is required because of the development they profit from.

[VApeople]

Who should pay for the infrastructure necessary because of the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages: the Developer, who initiated, and will profit from, the expansion, OR the Sumter County taxpayers, who will not profit from it and generally oppose it? The answer should be obvious.

The answer is not obvious to me.

What is obvious to me is the nice lifestyle provided by The Villages and the amount we have to pay for it.

Right now the amount we have to pay is reasonable and our lifestyle is very good. If that changes in a negative way, we will make some changes.

[Bogie Shooter]

It wouldn't need to be built if there weren't any houses going in. Who's building the houses that need egress? Not Sumter County. Not me or you. Let Morse pay for the road.

////

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The answer is not obvious to me.

What is obvious to me is the nice lifestyle provided by The Villages and the amount we have to pay for it.

Right now the amount we have to pay is reasonable and our lifestyle is very good. If that changes in a negative way, we will make some changes.

As I (and others) have pointed out before: you are posting from the perspective of someone who clearly ignores that there are thousands of people living in Sumter County who are NOT residents of the Villages. They are not benefiting from any of this expansion, but they are being forced to pay for it.

[Kenswing]

As I (and others) have pointed out before: you are posting from the perspective of someone who clearly ignores that there are thousands of people living in Sumter County who are NOT residents of the Villages. They are not benefiting from any of this expansion, but they are being forced to pay for it.
But won't the entire county benefit from all the taxes those new houses will be paying?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

But won't the entire county benefit from all the taxes those new houses will be paying?

Actually, no they won't. There are roads in Sumter County that are NOT Villages roads, that have been sorely in need of repaving for years, and have been ignored and neglected. Meanwhile, Sumter tax dollars pay for the roads that exist because the Villages exist, to be repaired and repaved, for traffic studies and tweaks on the areas of the main state roads that lead into and out of the Villages.

SOME of the taxes actually pay for "the entire county." But most do not.

[Velvet]

Oh, I thought Kenswing was joking.

[dewilson58]

The Buena Vista extension is not an amenity. Why should we pay for it?




There are hundreds of County roads you don't drive on and don't benefit you, but you pay for them as well.


I've never been down SE 36th Blvd, but my tax dollars go to maintain it. I guess I shouldn't have to pay for it.


It's just not fair................I guess I should whine.




:ohdear:

[njbchbum]

Actually, no they won't. There are roads in Sumter County that are NOT Villages roads, that have been sorely in need of repaving for years, and have been ignored and neglected. Meanwhile, Sumter tax dollars pay for the roads that exist because the Villages exist, to be repaired and repaved, for traffic studies and tweaks on the areas of the main state roads that lead into and out of the Villages.

SOME of the taxes actually pay for "the entire county." But most do not.

So property taxes in Sumter County don't pay for more than roads and projects in the Villages?

[PrudentLifer]

There are hundreds of County roads you don't drive on and don't benefit you, but you pay for them as well.


I've never been down SE 36th Blvd, but my tax dollars go to maintain it. I guess I shouldn't have to pay for it.


It's just not fair................I guess I should whine.




:ohdear:



Morse is building a megalopolis and he needs the primary roads to accomplish this. Let Morse pay for it.

[PrudentLifer]

But won't the entire county benefit from all the taxes those new houses will be paying?



Typically, an impact fee per house is sufficient to pay for the primary infrastructure. In this case Morse is getting a sweetheart deal on the impact fees whereby those fees are insufficient to pay for it.

[Velvet]

...

[Velvet]

Morse is building a megalopolis and he needs the primary roads to accomplish this. Let Morse pay for it.

And that is how it was always done, until now. The homeowner paid the bond that paid for the initial infrastructure.

[dewilson58]

And that is how it was always done, until now. The homeowner paid the bond that paid for the initial infrastructure.


Not the primary roads.

[PrudentLifer]

Not the primary roads.



Who then paid for the Morse and Buena Vista extensions south of 466A?

[dewilson58]

Who then paid for the Morse and Buena Vista extensions south of 466A?


The county.


Added:
What is the Bond Debt Assessment for?

The bond debt assessment reflects each lot’s proportionate share of the cost of building the infrastructure within its District or for which its District has responsibility. It is the most equitable method of distributing costs between the properties that benefit from the infrastructure. Infrastructure includes storm water systems, underground pump stations, water retention areas, curbs, gutters, streetlights, transportation trails, underground piping, etc.

[PrudentLifer]

The county.


Added:
What is the Bond Debt Assessment for?

The bond debt assessment reflects each lot’s proportionate share of the cost of building the infrastructure within its District or for which its District has responsibility. It is the most equitable method of distributing costs between the properties that benefit from the infrastructure. Infrastructure includes storm water systems, underground pump stations, water retention areas, curbs, gutters, streetlights, transportation trails, underground piping, etc.



I understood Morse built the Morse & BV extensions then turned them over to the county for maintenance. A win-win. I don't think I'm wrong.

[manaboutown]

The county.


Added:
What is the Bond Debt Assessment for?

The bond debt assessment reflects each lot’s proportionate share of the cost of building the infrastructure within its District or for which its District has responsibility. It is the most equitable method of distributing costs between the properties that benefit from the infrastructure. Infrastructure includes storm water systems, underground pump stations, water retention areas, curbs, gutters, streetlights, transportation trails, underground piping, etc.

If the bond debt on an individual house provides for system-wide infrastructure then why are the bonds on Patio Villas and Premier homes not the same? The bonds on Premiers are much higher. The bond on an individual house must somehow relate to the cost of infrastructure related to that particular house within its part of the overall development.

[PrudentLifer]

If the bond debt on an individual house provides for system-wide infrastructure then why are the bonds on Patio Villas and Premier homes not the same? The bonds on Premiers are much higher. The bond on an individual house must somehow relate to the cost of infrastructure related to that particular house within its part of the overall development.



The bond debt is directly proportional to the number of lots within the development. The more(smaller) lots the lower the bond and vice versa.

[dewilson58]

If the bond debt on an individual house provides for system-wide infrastructure then why are the bonds on Patio Villas and Premier homes not the same? The bonds on Premiers are much higher. The bond on an individual house must somehow relate to the cost of infrastructure related to that particular house within its part of the overall development.




How does the District arrive at the amount? Does everyone pay the same amount?
The Bond Debt Assessment was set at the time the bond used to build the infrastructure was issued. The formula for calculating each lot’s proportionate share starts with the total cost of the bond (including interest) issued to pay for the infrastructure. That cost is divided equally among each assessable acre in the “phase” of the District for which the bond was issued. That gives you a cost per acre. The cost per acre is then multiplied by the number of acres in the unit in which you live. That gives you the obligation for the unit as a whole. The unit total cost is then divided by the number of lots or parcels in the unit, and that computation gives you the amount of the assessment levied against each property. Therefore, each lot within a unit pays the same amount. Amortization schedules for each unit are located on the Districts' website; www.districtgov.org (http://www.districtgov.org) under the Finance Department link.

[dewilson58]

If the bond debt on an individual house provides for system-wide infrastructure then why are the bonds on Patio Villas and Premier homes not the same? The bonds on Premiers are much higher. The bond on an individual house must somehow relate to the cost of infrastructure related to that particular house within its part of the overall development.






Like the inequity of RE Taxes, a million dollar home owner doesn't use ~3 times the County's services as a $300k home owner.


Now there is something to whine about.


Wait, Wait..........here's another one.....what about income taxes??



Poor me can happen with all types of taxes.


AND TO CLARIFY...........................Mana, I don't think you are whining.

[Jim 9922]

Has anyone ever seen an itemized report listing how exactly a bond funding was actually spent? Is such a report publicly available?
It would be interesting to see how much actually went to specific infrastructure categories such as electric, water, sewers, major and minor roads, signage, etc. and what was disbursed for design, fees, brokerage, "management" services and other soft costs and whether the "funding" was fully spent. And furthermore, what happened to overruns or
undercosts?
Hopefully none of the bond costs were spent constructing or enhancing our recreational facilities which "we" thru the CDD system bought (financed by more bonds collateralized by the facilities) at a later date, or will be bought eventually in the new areas.

[dewilson58]

Has anyone ever seen an itemized report listing how exactly a bond funding was actually spent? Is such a report publicly available?
It would be interesting to see how much actually went to specific infrastructure categories such as electric, water, sewers, major and minor roads, signage, etc. and what was disbursed for design, fees, brokerage, "management" services and other soft costs and whether the "funding" was fully spent. And furthermore, what happened to overruns or
undercosts?
Hopefully none of the bond costs were spent constructing or enhancing our recreational facilities which "we" thru the CDD system bought (financed by more bonds collateralized by the facilities) at a later date, or will be bought eventually in the new areas.




I did.


Seems like our Broker gave it to me.


I just looked on the website and did not see a link.


Now you got me thinking.

[Bogie Shooter]

I did.


Seems like our Broker gave it to me.


I just looked on the website and did not see a link.


Now you got me thinking.
Isn’t that a part of each District budget?

[dewilson58]

Isn’t that a part of each District budget?




I was thinking the poster was asking about the original "$20mil" spent, which was divided by the lots. Seems like my Broker gave me a list of the original expenditures and related math to get to my bond amount.

[Northwoods]

Please do not mistake objectivity for negativity.

Seriously? I'm just trying to understand impact fees and what's going on. So I read the POA bulletin to learn about the tax increase. Here are phrases in that bulletin about The Commissioners: "Poor planning or Poor management". "Smugness and arrogance". "Clearly the Commissioners and County Administrator have only paid lip service.."

So...that's objective? there is no bias in those statements? As someone who honestly wants to learn what is going on, do I read that and say "this is a news source that is reporting the facts and I should read to learn more about this situation?" Or do I read those statements and conclude "this is a very biased source and I'm only going to hear a one-sided viewpoint of this matter".
I picked up the POA bulletin to get a factual accounting of what is happening with this situation. I read it. Based on the POA's descriptive adjectives, I have a very hard time viewing the POA as an objective source.
And I'm dissapointed in that... because I was looking for factual reporting.

[Love2Swim]

Please do not mistake objectivity for negativity.

Seriously? I'm just trying to understand impact fees and what's going on. So I read the POA bulletin to learn about the tax increase. Here are phrases in that bulletin about The Commissioners: "Poor planning or Poor management". "Smugness and arrogance". "Clearly the Commissioners and County Administrator have only paid lip service.."

So...that's objective? there is no bias in those statements? As someone who honestly wants to learn what is going on, do I read that and say "this is a news source that is reporting the facts and I should read to learn more about this situation?" Or do I read those statements and conclude "this is a very biased source and I'm only going to hear a one-sided viewpoint of this matter".
I picked up the POA bulletin to get a factual accounting of what is happening with this situation. I read it. Based on the POA's descriptive adjectives, I have a very hard time viewing the POA as an objective source.
And I'm dissapointed in that... because I was looking for factual reporting.

If, after reading the facts in the case, it is clear they point to poor planning and management, I would expect a news source to connect the dots and spell it out for the reader. Sorry you don't like the message, but don't take it out on the messenger.

[dewilson58]

Has anyone ever seen an itemized report listing how exactly a bond funding was actually spent? Is such a report publicly available?
It would be interesting to see how much actually went to specific infrastructure categories such as electric, water, sewers, major and minor roads, signage, etc. and what was disbursed for design, fees, brokerage, "management" services and other soft costs and whether the "funding" was fully spent. And furthermore, what happened to overruns or
undercosts?
Hopefully none of the bond costs were spent constructing or enhancing our recreational facilities which "we" thru the CDD system bought (financed by more bonds collateralized by the facilities) at a later date, or will be bought eventually in the new areas.




Jim Double9, Double2




I spent some time looking..............could not find the detail from years ago. I was going to post as an example. I would assume you are entitled to see for your section.


Good Luck.

[Bogie Shooter]

Jim Double9, Double2




I spent some time looking..............could not find the detail from years ago. I was going to post as an example. I would assume you are entitled to see for your section.


Good Luck.

A call to his district rep would get the answer.

[Northwoods]

If, after reading the facts in the case, it is clear they point to poor planning and management, I would expect a news source to connect the dots and spell it out for the reader. Sorry you don't like the message, but don't take it out on the messenger.
I was looking for facts. Please understand I have no bias in this situation. My guess is The Developer is taking advantage of residents. But I felt the POA's explanation was very bias. So... I had a hard time believing the POA's explanation was factual and objective. They had such an opportunity to explain the situation and present their case without incendiary comments.
So... I guess I am taking it out on the messenger. I think they missed an opportunity.

[Topspinmo]

Billionaires don’t become billionaires by spending their own money. Most business practices are covert operation of getting out of paying taxes and getting someone else to pay for their investment. This all happen through the career politicians that feed off the lobbyist and under the table money. Been going on since the Roman Empire. As we know Roman Empire fell and so will free nations, matter of time.:faint:

[Advogado]

"Please do not mistake objectivity for negativity.

Seriously? I'm just trying to understand impact fees and what's going on. So I read the POA bulletin to learn about the tax increase. Here are phrases in that bulletin about The Commissioners: "Poor planning or Poor management". "Smugness and arrogance". "Clearly the Commissioners and County Administrator have only paid lip service.."

So...that's objective? there is no bias in those statements? As someone who honestly wants to learn what is going on, do I read that and say "this is a news source that is reporting the facts and I should read to learn more about this situation?" Or do I read those statements and conclude "this is a very biased source and I'm only going to hear a one-sided viewpoint of this matter".
I picked up the POA bulletin to get a factual accounting of what is happening with this situation. I read it. Based on the POA's descriptive adjectives, I have a very hard time viewing the POA as an objective source.
And I'm dissapointed in that... because I was looking for factual reporting."




I think I agree with your basic point: The POA could have done a better job explaining the unprecedented 25% tax increase. I tried to do so in my original post in this thread. If you find any errors in it, please let me know.

It appears that the POA writers got a little carried away in their anger and and didn't lay out the facts as clearly as they could have. But such anger is justified. What the Developer and his toadies on the Sumter County Board of Commissioners did to the taxpayers of Sumter County should infuriate anyone who understands what happened.

My criticism of the October POA Bulletin is the following: It asks the question: Is the tax increase due to “Poor Planning” or “Poor Management” and then answers it as “both”. The correct answer is that the tax increase is due to a conscious decision on the part of the Sumter County Commissioners, all of whom are supported by the Developer. The Commissioners decided to to load the infrastructure costs of The Villages massive expansion on the taxpayers of Sumter County, via a 25% tax hike, instead of on the Developer, via an appropriate increase in the impact fee paid by the Developer each time he builds a house.

Right now, the Developer pays an impact fee of only $901 per house, versus a $2,600 per-house fee paid by a builder of a single-family house in Sumter County, and versus a $20,000 per-house fee paid by a builder of a house in a 55-and-older community in Collier County.

[graciegirl]

In my opinion the POA has always seemed negative toward The Villages. I have always wondered who and what is the driving force.

[Advogado]

In my opinion the POA has always seemed negative toward The Villages. I have always wondered who and what is the driving force.

The driving force is a sense of reality.

I cannot honestly see how you can defend what the Developer is doing here. Do you really understand it? Take a drive outside The Villages and look at some of the poverty there. You think these people won't feel the impact of the tax increase????

I can afford to pay a few hundred dollars a year extra in taxes. I gather that you can as well, but there are plenty of people inside and outside The Villages who cannot. Have you no compassion for them?

In fact, I personally wouldn't mind paying a few hundred dollars extra if the money went to teachers, firefighters, and cops. But that is not where it is going. It is going into the Developer's pocket, thanks to his toadies on the County Commission.

[VApeople]

I'm just trying to understand impact fees and what's going on.

I was looking for factual reporting.

OK, here are the facts.

You can see what The Villages offers to its residents. You can also see what it costs you to live here.

If you don't like what you see, there are plenty of other nice places to live in Florida. For example:

Florida Oceanfront Property :: Sailfish Point (https://www.sailfishpoint.com/)

[perrjojo]

OK, here are the facts.

You can see what The Villages offers to its residents. You can also see what it costs you to live here.

If you don't like what you see, there are plenty of other nice places to live in Florida. For example:

Florida Oceanfront Property :: Sailfish Point (https://www.sailfishpoint.com/)

It’s not about whether or not The Villages is a good place to live at a good price. It is that this tax increase does not seem to be fair and equitable to all residents of Sumter County. It also seems we are being asked to pay for something that should be paid for by the developer. I love TV. I am not anti developer but I am for what is fair and equitable for all of our county residents. Yes, TV has helped with the poverty in Sumter County but by mostly providing low wage jobs to those wanting to work. Many in our county would like to work here but cannot afford the expense of transportation to TV. It’s not just always about us but it always about what is fair and just.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

OK, here are the facts.

You can see what The Villages offers to its residents. You can also see what it costs you to live here.

If you don't like what you see, there are plenty of other nice places to live in Florida. For example:

Florida Oceanfront Property :: Sailfish Point (https://www.sailfishpoint.com/)

That's a really myopic perception of the situation there. This isn't about what Villagers have to pay, or don't have to pay. It's about what ALL residents of the entire county, within and without the Villages, have to pay. And what the developer doesn't have to pay, even though other builders in the county have to pay.

As mentioned above: the going rate for "a builder" (generic) to build "a house" (generic) in Sumter County is $2600.

The going rate for THE Developer (specific) of The Villages (specific) is only $901.

As a result, THE Developer is getting around a 65% discount on building in the Villages, which makes it very easy to build in mass quantities. Meanwhile, Joe Builder elsewhere in the County has to shell out $2600 each time he builds a single-family house, so he has less ability to build as much or as quickly as THE Developer.

Basically - THE Developer has a monopoly and is pushing the generic developers, and homeowners, of "non-Villages" Sumter County, out of the county. Their prices continue to go up, but their services don't change. Villages prices remain steady, while the Developer profits because his initial costs are significantly lower.

How is this possible? Because he has strategic placement of "his" pet officials on the County Commissions.

[Dionysos]

That's a really myopic perception of the situation there. This isn't about what Villagers have to pay, or don't have to pay. It's about what ALL residents of the entire county, within and without the Villages, have to pay. And what the developer doesn't have to pay, even though other builders in the county have to pay.

As mentioned above: the going rate for "a builder" (generic) to build "a house" (generic) in Sumter County is $2600.

The going rate for THE Developer (specific) of The Villages (specific) is only $901.

As a result, THE Developer is getting around a 65% discount on building in the Villages, which makes it very easy to build in mass quantities. Meanwhile, Joe Builder elsewhere in the County has to shell out $2600 each time he builds a single-family house, so he has less ability to build as much or as quickly as THE Developer.

Basically - THE Developer has a monopoly and is pushing the generic developers, and homeowners, of "non-Villages" Sumter County, out of the county. Their prices continue to go up, but their services don't change. Villages prices remain steady, while the Developer profits because his initial costs are significantly lower.

How is this possible? Because he has strategic placement of "his" pet officials on the County Commissions.

Sounds more like a Oligarchy rather then a monopoly. It is Florida tho and sux for the average Joe.

Cheers

[Advogado]

Sounds more like a Oligarchy rather then a monopoly. It is Florida tho and sux for the average Joe.

Cheers
I used to think of The Villages as a semi-benevolent dictatorship, but after seeing the Developer pull off the tax-hike / no-impact-fee-increase shenanigan, I am not so sure about the "semi-benevolent" part. :icon_wink:

[Velvet]

I believe it used to be under Mr Schwartz. Now it looks like pure business.

[Advogado]

I believe it used to be under Mr Schwartz. Now it looks like pure business.

I guess the technical term is really "plutocracy."

[VApeople]

This isn't about what Villagers have to pay, or don't have to pay. It's about what ALL residents of the entire county, within and without the Villages, have to pay.

No, it is about what WE have to pay.

When we think we are asked to pay more than our lifestyle is worth, we will be off to Sailfish Point.

[eyc234]

That's a really myopic perception of the situation there. This isn't about what Villagers have to pay, or don't have to pay. It's about what ALL residents of the entire county, within and without the Villages, have to pay. And what the developer doesn't have to pay, even though other builders in the county have to pay.

As mentioned above: the going rate for "a builder" (generic) to build "a house" (generic) in Sumter County is $2600.

The going rate for THE Developer (specific) of The Villages (specific) is only $901.

As a result, THE Developer is getting around a 65% discount on building in the Villages, which makes it very easy to build in mass quantities. Meanwhile, Joe Builder elsewhere in the County has to shell out $2600 each time he builds a single-family house, so he has less ability to build as much or as quickly as THE Developer.

Basically - THE Developer has a monopoly and is pushing the generic developers, and homeowners, of "non-Villages" Sumter County, out of the county. Their prices continue to go up, but their services don't change. Villages prices remain steady, while the Developer profits because his initial costs are significantly lower.

How is this possible? Because he has strategic placement of "his" pet officials on the County Commissions.

:ohdear: Okay this is one of those half truths, generalities and let me bend the facts to fit what I want to say. There is no "generic" classification for an impact fee in Sumter county. If a builder builds homes in a Retirement Community/Age Restricted Single Family development they would pay a fee of $901. If the developer of The Villages builds homes in a Single Family development they will pay $2600. If you build an Assisted Living Facility you will pay a whopping $544. You can not in this country, state or county make discriminatory business practices on one company over another.

I would still ask if anything illegal has been done then the courts should be contacted and individuals indicted, charged, tried, removed from office if guilty and put in jail. If you do not like the laws that are set in place change them, change the representatives and be involved up front not after the fact and then gripe.

[biker1]

The Developer would not have paid regardless of whether the county tax was raised or impact fees on new construction were higher. In the case of the latter, that cost would ultimately be paid by the people who bought the new homes via a higher price. The Villages doesn't have any problem selling houses - people would buy them at a higher cost due to more realistic impact fees. The real issue is do the new home buyers pay the cost of the new roads to support the new southern Villages or do the current county residents pay via higher taxes? That has been answered.


It’s not about whether or not The Villages is a good place to live at a good price. It is that this tax increase does not seem to be fair and equitable to all residents of Sumter County. It also seems we are being asked to pay for something that should be paid for by the developer. I love TV. I am not anti developer but I am for what is fair and equitable for all of our county residents. Yes, TV has helped with the poverty in Sumter County but by mostly providing low wage jobs to those wanting to work. Many in our county would like to work here but cannot afford the expense of transportation to TV. It’s not just always about us but it always about what is fair and just.

[Velvet]

:ohdear: Okay this is one of those half truths, generalities and let me bend the facts to fit what I want to say. There is no "generic" classification for an impact fee in Sumter county. If a builder builds homes in a Retirement Community/Age Restricted Single Family development they would pay a fee of $901. If the developer of The Villages builds homes in a Single Family development they will pay $2600. If you build an Assisted Living Facility you will pay a whopping $544. You can not in this country, state or county make discriminatory business practices on one company over another.



Doesn’t this argument simply imply that every builder benefits from low impact fees? Ie. if one builder muscles it down all builders benefit.

[tophcfa]

I used to think of The Villages as a semi-benevolent dictatorship, but after seeing the Developer pull off the tax-hike / no-impact-fee-increase shenanigan, I am not so sure about the "semi-benevolent" part. :icon_wink:

Obviously the Schwartz/Gary Morse leadership had a different vision and business model than the current generation. Change is inevitable, and sometimes change is good and other times it's bad. I guess time will tell, but the initial impression clearly appears that the changes happing in leadership are not so good.

[Velvet]

If this is our current leadership then .... Someone has to represent the homeowners’ interest too. Someone with integrity and backbone.

[Pinochle]

What is the percentage of developers, builders, paying for roads, infrastructure in this country compared to the city, county, state???

The expansion of the Villages does make the developer richer and it also provides work for thousands of people. People are moving to Florida in droves. Florida is now the THIRD most populous state in the union. Who wouldn't want to live here and who wouldn't want to live in The Villages.

Does the governing body of the POA still mostly have people living north of 466?


There are many people who don't want to live here or even in Florida. After reading some of your comments, what exactly is your problem with the POA and why does it matter where any of the governing bodies live?

[Pinochle]

I'm not a member of the POA. I am also not anti developer. I do understand we in Sumter County were overdue for a tax increase. But 25%?

The tax payers are paying more than their fair share. Is the developer paying their fare share for all this massive expansion?
I don't know the answer to this. I'm trying to find out as much as I can.

I hope the mods don't close this thread.


It's interesting to note that if a homeowner does NOT have Homestead in Florida, their property taxes for the coming year cannot be raised more than 3%.

And here homeowners are slammed with a 25% increase? Under any circumstances, can anyone really make sense out of this?

[Pinochle]

I will not spend one minute of the time I have left complaining about the business dealings of a developer that created and maintains the finest active retirement community in the world! There's so many better ways to spend the time.


That being the case and since you think all of these comments are negativity as opposed to some hard-core factual information, then why are you spending a lot more than one minute reading all of this?

Since a 25% tax increase doesn't seem to bother you, perhaps you would pay my new tax bill.

[Pinochle]

There is affordable housing available here. Everywhere around here.The developer provides jobs for the workforce. The workforce gets a paycheck and they can provide themselves with affordable housing.


What do you consider as "affordable housing?"
$10.00 an hour doesn't go very far when you are one of the worker-bees, especially if there is a family in the picture.

Even if a husband and wife both work and have to pay childcare their combined income still doesn't give them a chance for much of anything.

[Pinochle]

It wouldn't need to be built if there weren't any houses going in. Who's building the houses that need egress? Not Sumter County. Not me or you. Let Morse pay for the road.


I'm with you 100%.

If you drive south of 301 from say, 466, there is a brand new right turn lane at an intersection. That turn lane was put in to benefit a business. If you think the county paid for it, you're dreaming.

[ColdNoMore]

The driving force is a sense of reality.

I cannot honestly see how you can defend what the Developer is doing here. Do you really understand it? Take a drive outside The Villages and look at some of the poverty there. You think these people won't feel the impact of the tax increase????

I can afford to pay a few hundred dollars a year extra in taxes. I gather that you can as well, but there are plenty of people inside and outside The Villages who cannot. Have you no compassion for them?

In fact, I personally wouldn't mind paying a few hundred dollars extra if the money went to teachers, firefighters, and cops. But that is not where it is going. It is going into the Developer's pocket, thanks to his toadies on the County Commission.

Yep.

The POA is trying to protect and inform residents, while the VHA is simply...a mouthpiece/echo chamber for the Da Family.

It's hard to even imagine, why anyone would take such umbrage with them...trying to look after resident's rights/best interests.

On second thought...I guess I can imagine. :ohdear:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

What do you consider as "affordable housing?"
$10.00 an hour doesn't go very far when you are one of the worker-bees, especially if there is a family in the picture.

Even if a husband and wife both work and have to pay childcare their combined income still doesn't give them a chance for much of anything.

Waiters in the Villages restaurants don't earn $10.00/hour. Some of them don't even earn $5/hour before tips. Some, who work mid-shift (not breakfast or lunch, but inbetween) get a total of $7.60/hour AFTER tips.

It's not a liveable wage and using this segment of the population to justify developers not having to pay a greater impact fee "because they bring in workers" is laughable, at best.

[biker1]

Nope. FL law requires that tipped employees make at least the FL minimum wage ($8.46 per hour) with tips included. If they don't hit that with tips then the employer is required to make up the difference. FL minimum wage before tips for tipped employees is $5.44 per hour. Depending on where you work you can do much better than that.

Waiters in the Villages restaurants don't earn $10.00/hour. Some of them don't even earn $5/hour before tips. Some, who work mid-shift (not breakfast or lunch, but inbetween) get a total of $7.60/hour AFTER tips.

It's not a liveable wage and using this segment of the population to justify developers not having to pay a greater impact fee "because they bring in workers" is laughable, at best.

[eyc234]

Agree that wages are low and could increase. How this fits with this thread is that just as raising cost for any builder, restaurant or any kind of business will result in higher consumer prices. Business will pass on cost. The public must be willing to accept higher cost and a little pain. You have to look at all the consequences of actions not just a few and determine if society overall is willing to accept the consequences of the actions.

[skip0358]

It is my understanding ( from an earlier post)that when the County gave the green light to continue building it was with the understanding that only if the County ( thus the tax payers) paid for all the road construction and road improvements that were needed. Thus the tax increase. The County probably doing the math with the increase knew they would be paid back big time with the additional tax dollars plus more commercial properties coming in time bringing their tax dollars also. Think it was a win win for both the County & The Developer plus ALL the jobs available to the trades performing the work. JMO

[perrjojo]

Yeah this is a kind of ridiculous assumption. Considering her propensity for searching and all previous posts of any given poster just to spew back information they've posted to use against them, she knows darned well I don't want to live in Florida, and she knows why I'm living in Florida anyway.

I HATE Florida. If the Villages was in any other state in the country, then moving to Florida upon retirement would've been a deal-breaker.

I’m sorry you hate Florida and do not live here by choice.

[perrjojo]

There are those who hate the Developer and the VHA. There are those who hate the POA. I think they create a balance in all things TV. Learn from both and draw your own conclusions.

[PrudentLifer]

Yeah this is a kind of ridiculous assumption. Considering her propensity for searching and all previous posts of any given poster just to spew back information they've posted to use against them, she knows darned well I don't want to live in Florida, and she knows why I'm living in Florida anyway.



I HATE Florida. If the Villages was in any other state in the country, then moving to Florida upon retirement would've been a deal-breaker.



Is there any state in the south that puts the needs of the worker bee ahead of its plantation owners? Florida is in transition, as a whole, eventually it will flip. But the plantation we live on, The Villages, will not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Velvet]

Just out of curiosity, how do you think people became billionaires from very little in a couple of generations?

[Bogie Shooter]

Just out of curiosity, how do you think people became billionaires from very little in a couple of generations?

I am curious too, what do you think?

[Kenswing]

There are those who hate the Developer and the VHA. There are those who hate the POA. I think they create a balance in all things TV. Learn from both and draw your own conclusions.I take the Olympic scoring approach. Throw out the high and low scores and add up the middle.. lol

[eyc234]

I am curious too, what do you think?

Just out of curiosity, how do you think people became billionaires from very little in a couple of generations?

Ohhhh I do not know, maybe create a product thru innovation, trial and error, find the right niche, exceptional marketing, quality and build on all of these things. Nothing like Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Elan Musk, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, Ross Perot, Mark Zuckerberg or any of the money grubbing millionaires/billionaires that have made their money in less than one generation. The only people who have benefitted from any of their companies was them. :icon_wink::icon_wink: