Which Islam will prevail in U.S.?

[Guest]

With all the attention given the proposed mosque near ground-zero in NYC; not a lot of attention is given to the true moderate Muslims who are no fans of the branch of Islam that is behind this.
To make matters worse, our own government has for years, (yes; even the Bush administration), been propping up and backing this extreme, but dominant, branch of Islam.

Here is an informative article by Andrew McCarthy on this issue that I thought many of my fellow TOTV'ers would benefit from.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/244349/which-islam-will-prevail-america-andrew-c-mccarthy

[Guest]

With all the attention given the proposed mosque near ground-zero in NYC; not a lot of attention is given to the true moderate Muslims who are no fans of the branch of Islam that is behind this.
To make matters worse, our own government has for years, (yes; even the Bush administration), been propping up and backing this extreme, but dominant, branch of Islam.

Here is an informative article by Andrew McCarthy on this issue that I thought many of my fellow TOTV'ers would benefit from.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/244349/which-islam-will-prevail-america-andrew-c-mccarthy

would everybody please stop talking about moderate Muslims there is no such thing. If they are good Muslims they follow the Koran and the teachings of the several hadith. These Muslims scare the hell out of me. Then we have Muslims that well, we might consider them to be bad Muslims much like we have bad Catholics, that Christians bad Jews, we just kind of roll along don't go to church as much as they should send a bit here and there. I do not understand how you would ever come up with the term moderate Muslim. If you read the Koran what has moderate? There is no moderation in Islam in my opinion based on everything I have read. I think to use that actually believe that there is a moderate Islam meaning followers of the Koran and the hadith has extreme folly and very dangerous.

I divide it this way. There is religious Islam and there is political Islam. Political Islam has absolutely no good to offer this country are any other country that wants to exist. Religious Islam as those who stay within the confines of our laws and Constitution should be free to practice as they wish.

Just some thoughts

Yoda

[Guest]

As Americans, most are Christians so we like to think of religion as a way of life that allows everyone to love and respect each other. Read the Sermon O the Mount and imagine how nice it would be if everyone followed those teachings. Muslims that follow the Koran are close to Christianity in their belief unless they include

Sharia law into their belief. Thats when they turn into primitive beings. The stoning of women, female circumcision, honor killings etc. are done mostly by the followers of Sharia Law. Think of Turkey where sharia law has been outlawed and you will see a moderate Muslim lifestyle. Many of the people from Afghanistan and Pakistan still live in primitive conditions; hence the tribal regions are where Islamic radicals set up camp. Iran has internal problems because the general population of Iran is becoming more and more advanced yet their Political leader is supported by Radical Islamic Clerics.

Moderate Muslim: OK
Radical Muslim: Bad

Moderate Christian: Good
Tim McVey Type Christian: Bad

Most religions have a freak or two in shadows, its just that Muslims have tens of thousands of the bad ones. That is why (in my Opinion), that the moderate Muslims are afraid for their life if they speak up to denounce the bad ones. Break that habit and we can uncover Osama Bin Laden and the rest of his hooligans. Or we could all convert to the Muslim faith and the problems would be solved. I'm not interested in that, but its just a thought.

[Guest]

Moderate Muslim: OK
Radical Muslim: Bad

Moderate Christian: Good
Tim McVey Type Christian: Bad
.

The preponderance of available evidence gleaned from interviews with McVeigh himself, indicate he was an avowed agnostic...not a Christian. In his youth he attended a Catholic church but morphed into a self acknowledged skeptic and heathen.

Self described intellects and "great thinkers" such as Mike Tyson and Louis Farrakhan have labeled him a Christian for reasons known best to themselves. I personally do not consider either credible sages.

To suggest he is any kind of Christian, good or bad, is disingenuous.

Have a great day in the Villages.

[Guest]

If we have such a category as moderate Muslims they are that way because they do not know the Koran.

The so called radicals will eventually kill all moderates and or infidels in the name of and as they feel instructed to do so by the Koran.

[Guest]

The preponderance of available evidence gleaned from interviews with McVeigh himself, indicate he was an avowed agnostic...not a Christian. In his youth he attended a Catholic church but morphed into a self acknowledged skeptic and heathen.

Self described intellects and "great thinkers" such as Mike Tyson and Louis Farrakhan have labeled him a Christian for reasons known best to themselves. I personally do not consider either credible sages.

To suggest he is any kind of Christian, good or bad, is disingenuous.

Have a great day in the Villages.


I'm sure your right about McVey, but you are wrong when all you could glean from my post was that I thought McVey was a Christian. He personally had nothing to do with the intent of my post. Sorry you could not understand my meaning. For you smart guys, I was just trying to say there is good and bad in all religions. GGGGeeeeezzzzzz

:shocked:

[Guest]

If we have such a category as moderate Muslims they are that way because they do not know the Koran.

The so called radicals will eventually kill all moderates and or infidels in the name of and as they feel instructed to do so by the Koran.

I spent 22 years in the US Army. I am sorry you so little faith in our service members to feel that the radical will win.

[Guest]

would everybody please stop talking about moderate Muslims there is no such thing. If they are good Muslims they follow the Koran and the teachings of the several hadith. These Muslims scare the hell out of me. Then we have Muslims that well, we might consider them to be bad Muslims much like we have bad Catholics, that Christians bad Jews, we just kind of roll along don't go to church as much as they should send a bit here and there. I do not understand how you would ever come up with the term moderate Muslim. If you read the Koran what has moderate? There is no moderation in Islam in my opinion based on everything I have read. I think to use that actually believe that there is a moderate Islam meaning followers of the Koran and the hadith has extreme folly and very dangerous.

I divide it this way. There is religious Islam and there is political Islam. Political Islam has absolutely no good to offer this country are any other country that wants to exist. Religious Islam as those who stay within the confines of our laws and Constitution should be free to practice as they wish.

Just some thoughts

Yoda

I certainly understand your anger, and to a large degree am sympathetic, but if you read this article and other similar observational accounts, you can deduce that a good number of Americanized Muslims who've come to love our way of life while trying to observe their religious beliefs are kept silenced by the radical clerics who control the vast majority of Mosques. These mosques and the radical/mainstream Islamics who control them have been propped up by our own government for years in the interest of energy needs, strategic location and misquided diplomacy.
I only posted this article to present a view of this issue that might stimulate conversation. I don't expect these "Americanized Muslims", as I labeled them, to have any serious prospect of toning down the hate of America and its values that are preached in the very Mosques that they attend in the near future, and probably ever, but it's still worth noting.

[Guest]

I certainly understand your anger, and to a large degree am sympathetic, but if you read this article and other similar observational accounts, you can deduce that a good number of Americanized Muslims who've come to love our way of life while trying to observe their religious beliefs are kept silenced by the radical clerics who control the vast majority of Mosques. These mosques and the radical/mainstream Islamics who control them have been propped up by our own government for years in the interest of energy needs, strategic location and misquided diplomacy.
I only posted this article to present a view of this issue that might stimulate conversation. I don't expect these "Americanized Muslims", as I labeled them, to have any serious prospect of toning down the hate of America and its values that are preached in the very Mosques that they attend in the near future, and probably ever, but it's still worth noting.

Now this is what I ment with my post and I must say easyer to understand. Thanks Richie

[Guest]

I spent 22 years in the US Army. I am sorry you so little faith in our service members to feel that the radical will win.

As a former army guy, I feel your pain. Problem is that the war will be fought on many fronts including the media, and the political hacks of all parties.Technically, the military is controlled by civilian leadership, hence how we "lost" the Vietnam war.

[Guest]

Now this is what I ment with my post and I must say easyer to understand. Thanks Richie

My pleasure Lou. It's a volatile issue and elicits strong emotions from people because our options to combat the threat are stymied by the inflexibility of the purveyors of the threat.

[Guest]

And how many of you "Good Christians" follow every tenet of the Bible?

Ever read Leviticus? I certainly have and that was one of the things that drives me away from organized religion.

[Guest]

Unfortunately, Religion keeps blinders on everyone equally. We have denominations here in the Christian world that declare any other denomination not their own are condemned to burn for eternity. It always amazes me when any man of God will condemn another if his religious choice differs from his own. Muslims appear to follow their Koran in a more devout correctness than do Christians, but since they are sworn to violence against the infidels, thats not a good thing. The King James version of the Christian bible is more in line with Socialism views than Capitalism so we just ignore its message. OH well, what are ya to do? This is still my country of choice to live in. God Bless America..

This is just my opinion and in no way reflects the feeling or beliefs of the majority of this Web Site or the folks than control it.

[Guest]

And how many of you "Good Christians" follow every tenet of the Bible?

Ever read Leviticus? I certainly have and that was one of the things that drives me away from organized religion.

Hey, giving the Catholics a break today??? LOL

[Guest]

Unfortunately, Religion keeps blinders on everyone equally. We have denominations here in the Christian world that declare any other denomination not their own are condemned to burn for eternity. It always amazes me when any man of God will condemn another if his religious choice differs from his own. Muslims appear to follow their Koran in a more devout correctness than do Christians, but since they are sworn to violence against the infidels, thats not a good thing. The King James version of the Christian bible is more in line with Socialism views than Capitalism so we just ignore its message. OH well, what are ya to do? This is still my country of choice to live in. God Bless America..

This is just my opinion and in no way reflects the feeling or beliefs of the majority of this Web Site or the folks than control it.

Yes, there are sects of Christians who believe that those who don't believe as they do will burn in hell. At least they don't try to start the fire.

Yoda

[Guest]

Yes, there are sects of Christians who believe that those who don't believe as they do will burn in hell. At least they don't try to start the fire.

Yoda

LOL. Thank my God for that. I don't remember the denomination, but about 30 years ago while in the army and living in Kentucky, I was asked by my new neighbor where I attended church. I said no where right now, but I was raised a Methodist in Central Iowa. Now, he did not jump right out of his skin, but did manage in that very conversation to explain to me that I would not be accepted in Heaven if I continued in the Methodist belief. I tried to make light of it by saying "Well my wife is Baptist so maybe I will convert" With a sad face, he shook his head no no which I took to mean the Baptist are doomed also. I changed the subject and it never came up again the whole time we lived there.

[Guest]

I spent 22 years in the US Army. I am sorry you so little faith in our service members to feel that the radical will win.

What are you talking about? Where did you come up with this convoluted idea.

Please do not respond to postings you don't understand.

My comment is this and nothing else and it is painfull to me to have you make such a misrepresentation of my thinking: "When it comes to Muslims versus Muslims the Radicals will eventually defeat the Moderates".

PS. Your posting is very insulting to me. My father and my best Buddy were killed fighting for their Country and all of us.

PSS. Our brave sevice men are not at war with all radical Islam only a couple of select factions.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=cashman;286169]My comment is this and nothing else and it is painfull to me to have you make such a misrepresentation of my thinking: "When it comes to Muslims versus Muslims the Radicals will eventually defeat the Moderates".

Sorry you misunderstood what my comment was about. I read the above stated in a different way. I still disagree with you and feel you are not giving enough credit to the US Military. I believe they will not be defeated by the radicals. We Americans will survive this crisis. The US has thousands of Moderate Muslims and I truly believe the US will not stand by and allow them, as you say, be defeated.

Just my opinion.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=cashman;286169]My comment is this and nothing else and it is painfull to me to have you make such a misrepresentation of my thinking: "When it comes to Muslims versus Muslims the Radicals will eventually defeat the Moderates".

Sorry you misunderstood what my comment was about. I read the above stated in a different way. I still disagree with you and feel you are not giving enough credit to the US Military. I believe they will not be defeated by the radicals. We Americans will survive this crisis. The US has thousands of Moderate Muslims and I truly believe the US will not stand by and allow them, as you say, be defeated.

Just my opinion.

Your response indicates you don't get it.

[Guest]

[quote=Lou Card;286175]

Your response indicates you don't get it.
Thanks cashman. At least we can agree on that. You didn't get my comment and I don't understand yours either.

[Guest]

Hey, giving the Catholics a break today??? LOL

Most of them, yes. That was always my point. Every Catholic I've ever know (except one) has been a decent human being. (That one exception was an uncle in my adoptive family who I was warned about when my first daughter was born - take watever you want from that).

The rapists? Never.

[Guest]

Most of them, yes. That was always my point. Every Catholic I've ever know (except one) has been a decent human being. (That one exception was an uncle in my adoptive family who I was warned about when my first daughter was born - take watever you want from that).

The rapists? Never.

Well, rapists are in every religion. How about the sect that allows marriage at 4 years old and consummating said marriage at early teens?

[Guest]

I don't believe there are any moderate muslims. Islam is Islam. It is not a religion of peace. If you have read their Koran, that would be proof of my assertion. Regarding so-called moderate muslims, they have not spoken up on this mosque issue or any other that goes against Islam. There are muslims who have converted to Christianity. I have heard them speak up on television and in print. This mosque is planting their flag at ground zero telling America they have us by the short hairs so to speak. They don't need to attack, they can just use our twisted judges to twist our laws. The UK should be an example of where we are going if this pattern goes on here. When you stop identifying your enemy, how can you defeat them.

[Guest]

I don't believe there are any moderate muslims. Islam is Islam. It is not a religion of peace. If you have read their Koran, that would be proof of my assertion. Regarding so-called moderate muslims, they have not spoken up on this mosque issue or any other that goes against Islam. There are muslims who have converted to Christianity. I have heard them speak up on television and in print. This mosque is planting their flag at ground zero telling America they have us by the short hairs so to speak. They don't need to attack, they can just use our twisted judges to twist our laws. The UK should be an example of where we are going if this pattern goes on here. When you stop identifying your enemy, how can you defeat them.

I know it hard to believe with the overwhelming voice of radical Islam that there could be, possibly, Americans of Islamic faith who love and revel in the freedom that the US Constitution affords them.
Here's a website for your consideration. I hope the people behind this site draw more American Muslims out in the open.

http://www.aifdemocracy.org/

http://www.aifdemocracy.org/news.php?id=6131

[Guest]

It's kind of like American Catholics.. They, by and large, do NOT believe in EVERY tenet of what comes from the Vatican. I never knew that many Catholics (myself included) who, if pressed, would say that the Pope was, and I quote "God's chosen representative" on earth. The Church is at odds with American beliefs in contraception just to pick one particularly easy topic.

But as often as I saw articles on the possibility of a split with American Catholics forming their own Church, it never happened and I don't think it will for the forseeable future.

[Guest]

I never really gave the persecution of Catholics much thought until I seen the exceptional HBO television series The Tudors. Man, they were brutal back in those days.

[Guest]

[quote=cashman;286186]
Thanks cashman. At least we can agree on that. You didn't get my comment and I don't understand yours either.

You didn't not understand my comment before I didn't not understand yours.

[Guest]

[quote=Lou Card;286187]

You didn't not understand my comment before I didn't not understand yours.

LOL That's too funny. Sounds like the kind of dialogue I have with my significant other. :boxing2:

[Guest]

[quote=cashman;286461]

LOL That's too funny. Sounds like the kind of dialogue I have with my significant other. :boxing2:

Too much confusion of who said what when.

Why?

[Guest]

[quote=Pats2010;286463]

Too much confusion of who said what when.

Why?

Who what where when why :duck: