Problems with IRS and the Villages

[terrieb]

My husband and I have been going back and forth renting houses in the Villages to get a feel for life here. Then I read a few articles about the IRS and the Villages management in a battle over back taxes and the bonds implemented when you purchase a home saying they (the Villages management have no authority to initiate this bond). For fear of retrobution and or additional monies being tossed to the residents to have to pay, we have decided to not move here solely for that reason. Also, we hear there are so many "ammenity fees" that you pay just to live in the Villages. Is there information on this IRS issue I can review and how many "fees" does one pay just to live in the Villages?

I would appreciate input from anyone!!!

[mulligan]

The bonds being referred to are NOT the bonds on the individual homes!!! There is ONE amenity fee. About $135.00 per month for everyone, and an annual CDD maintennance fee which varies by district.

[graciegirl]

I agree with Mitchell. Read EdvinMass threads.

The Villages Developers don't owe back taxes.

The Villages is so very successful that it takes away from sales from other retirement areas.

In my opinion not everyone who posts on here has our best interests at heart. There are some ulterior motives for engendering fear about this.

[rjm1cc]

You have to be careful when you compair costs. For the home I would add the amount of the bond to the price of a house and use this total to compare to developments that do not have a bond.
The ammenity fee gets harder as different developments include different services. You have to add up what you think you will spend in each development and compare. For example in most developments the "gym" is include but it adds about 33% more to the TV cost since it is not included.

[2BNTV]

Terri B:

A post from EdVinMass:

I would think that you folks in TV would welcome this article because in my mind, it shows how the CDD form of master-planned community developments can work if managed properly as has clearly been done here in TV. And I might add that the Morse family has been at this project for well over two decades. It’s the ‘Johnny come lately’ developers that rushed into this for a fast killing during the boom years of 2002-2007 that are failing.

PTurner asked a pertinent question regarding how non-cdd developments have done through all of this. There’s probably not much info on this since they’re privately funded. But I think it would follow the same pattern of when the project was started. But what’s particularly bad about the privately funded developments is that they tended to sell homes before the promised amenities were built. Not good for those that believed what they wanted to hear.

As for the IRS ruling, let me say once again. Regardless of the outcome, there is absolutely no way that a homeowner in TV will be obligated to pay a dime of this. Your sole obligation is to pay the $135 per month amenity fee and that can never be raised more than the change in the CPI, (consumer price index), in any year. So no special assessments can be levied and those two special CDDs have no taxing power on the homeowners.

And to that I have not a ‘Shadow’ of a doubt.

[misky]

Terrie,

I just bought a lovely home in Woodbury in June. I plan on being there full time in two years. For the last four years, I have been visiting TV, checking home prices, gaining an understanding on fees and taxes, checking resale values and following this IRS issue, etc. I'm an auditor by training, so I am skeptical of everything. I had no issue with this IRS thing when I bought. In my line of business, you make decisions on the information and facts. From everything I researched, the IRS thing was so inconclusive, it became a non factor in my decision. Everything other fact and information make me feel confident in my decision.

My point is everything has a weighted factor in decision making. This IRS thing was only a minor issue to me.

[dillywho]

This same issue came up in 1999 and the IRS had to back off then. There are plenty of everyday things to "worry" about without this. The developers have done plenty right or this place would not continue to grow.

[golfnut]

I agree that the IRS issue is a minor issue, JMO....gn

[EdV]

..... Is there information on this IRS issue I can review and how many "fees" does one pay just to live in the Villages?


Here's a link to an article just published that should answer that:

http://www.districtgov.org/PDFView/PDFMeeting.aspx?id=20100826000801

[cynkr67]

Thanks for all the good (and comforting) information. I've been a little tweeked since finding out about this (after purchasing our home). It sounds like I don't need to spend another minute worrying!

[golf2140]

Thanks for all the good (and comforting) information. I've been a little tweeked since finding out about this (after purchasing our home). It sounds like I don't need to spend another minute worrying!

Don't worry be happy. We are to old to worry about something we can't control. This issue has been around for years. It's being pushed buy a reporter looking for her first pulitizer.

[Taj44]

My husband and I have been going back and forth renting houses in the Villages to get a feel for life here. Then I read a few articles about the IRS and the Villages management in a battle over back taxes and the bonds implemented when you purchase a home saying they (the Villages management have no authority to initiate this bond). For fear of retrobution and or additional monies being tossed to the residents to have to pay, we have decided to not move here solely for that reason. Also, we hear there are so many "ammenity fees" that you pay just to live in the Villages. Is there information on this IRS issue I can review and how many "fees" does one pay just to live in the Villages?

I would appreciate input from anyone!!!

I was just reading an article in The Bond Buyer, an online financial magazine, which describes The Villages vs. IRS issue. It says the IRS had expanded its review of bonds to include about $400 million worth of bonds, and it also has problems with the CDD appraisals of recreational facitilties they valued at approximately $64 million which independent appraisals only value at about $7 million.

As residents, we're all hoping that this will go away, the IRS will rule in The Villages favor. But there are obviously no guarantees. Our amentity fees cannot go up, which begs the question, if there are tax penalties to be paid, which could be many millions of dollars, where is the money coming from?

In the meantime, as others have said, there is no point in worrying, because it certainly is out of our hands, but the wise will keep abreast of all current information while we wait to see what happens. We all love the lifestyle here, but if the IRS rules that the Morses's via the CDD's acted improperly, there is a problem, and it will be affecting the residents. Perhaps there will be a special surcharge, perhaps amenties will be dropped, who knows?

I'm not going to stick my head in the sand, and say there are no problems, the Morse's are going to take care of me, that would be foolish. When the IRS decision is made, we can then look at the facts, and be prepared to deal with the consequences. We are all hoping that this IRS inquiry will go away as the previous one did, but to me this investigation sounds much more extensive, and I suspect they do not want the method the Villages used to act as precedent for other CDD's. But for now we Villagers are in limbo. I'm sorry if this post alarms anyone, that is not the intent, but I call the facts as I see them. We all handle adversity in differerent ways, and I do it by facing things head on and getting as educated as I can about issues which affect me.

[Lou Card]

I was just reading an article in The Bond Buyer, an online financial magazine, which describes The Villages vs. IRS issue. It says the IRS had expanded its review of bonds to include about $400 million worth of bonds, and it also has problems with the CDD appraisals of recreational facitilties they valued at approximately $64 million which independent appraisals only value at about $7 million.

As residents, we're all hoping that this will go away, the IRS will rule in The Villages favor. But there are obviously no guarantees. Our amentity fees cannot go up, which begs the question, if there are tax penalties to be paid, which could be many millions of dollars, where is the money coming from?

In the meantime, as others have said, there is no point in worrying, because it certainly is out of our hands, but the wise will keep abreast of all current information while we wait to see what happens. We all love the lifestyle here, but if the IRS rules that the Morses's via the CDD's acted improperly, there is a problem, and it will be affecting the residents. Perhaps there will be a special surcharge, perhaps amenties will be dropped, who knows?

I'm not going to stick my head in the sand, and say there are no problems, the Morse's are going to take care of me, that would be foolish. When the IRS decision is made, we can then look at the facts, and be prepared to deal with the consequences. We are all hoping that this IRS inquiry will go away as the previous one did, but to me this investigation sounds much more extensive, and I suspect they do not want the method the Villages used to act as precedent for other CDD's. But for now we Villagers are in limbo.

I would recommend you try a retirement community outside of Florida. If you have this much worry about the bonds, You will never be happy here. We on the other hand love this place and trust the Morse's.

[`willy]

I was just reading an article in The Bond Buyer, an online financial magazine, which describes The Villages vs. IRS issue. It says the IRS had expanded its review of bonds to include about $400 million worth of bonds, and it also has problems with the CDD appraisals of recreational facitilties they valued at approximately $64 million which independent appraisals only value at about $7 million.

As residents, we're all hoping that this will go away, the IRS will rule in The Villages favor. But there are obviously no guarantees. Our amentity fees cannot go up, which begs the question, if there are tax penalties to be paid, which could be many millions of dollars, where is the money coming from?

In the meantime, as others have said, there is no point in worrying, because it certainly is out of our hands, but the wise will keep abreast of all current information while we wait to see what happens. We all love the lifestyle here, but if the IRS rules that the Morses's via the CDD's acted improperly, there is a problem, and it will be affecting the residents. Perhaps there will be a special surcharge, perhaps amenties will be dropped, who knows?

I'm not going to stick my head in the sand, and say there are no problems, the Morse's are going to take care of me, that would be foolish. When the IRS decision is made, we can then look at the facts, and be prepared to deal with the consequences. We are all hoping that this IRS inquiry will go away as the previous one did, but to me this investigation sounds much more extensive, and I suspect they do not want the method the Villages used to act as precedent for other CDD's. But for now we Villagers are in limbo. I'm sorry if this post alarms anyone, that is not the intent, but I call the facts as I see them. We all handle adversity in differerent ways, and I do it by facing things head on and getting as educated as I can about issues which affect me.

Well said, I love it here too

Willy

[jannd228]

"Well said, I love it here too but don't trust the Morse's.

Willy"

Developers are there to make as much money as they can, develop an area and pocket the money

I don't think in this economy you can trust anyone completely, the Morses were sued and lost before, the IRS will get their money, I think you need to develop a community group BEFORE anything else happens, it never hurts to discuss in an open forum and with the talent in The Villages you should pursue options

this is the suit they lost

http://www.sptimes.com/2008/03/10/State/The_Villages_develope.shtml

[English Ivy]

For everyone who "trust" the Morse Family and believe they would "do the right thing" ... do you have as much faith in them as the clients of Bernie Madoff had in him before they found out he had taken them for every cent they had?

I'm not saying the Morse Family won't step up to the plate and do the right thing if push comes to shove or that they are in any way like Bernie Madoff and what he did, I'm just pointing out that there are a lot of ruthless business people out there.

[villa2]

For everyone who "trust" the Morse Family and believe they would "do the right thing" ... had in him before they found out he had taken them for every cent they had?
do you have as much faith in them as the clients of Bernie Madoff
I'm not saying the Morse Family won't step up to the plate and do the right thing if push comes to shove or that they are in any way like Bernie Madoff and what he did, I'm just pointing out that there are a lot of ruthless business people out there.

Comparing Morse to Madoff. Is this where Urban Legends begin?barf

[jannd228]

For everyone who "trust" the Morse Family and believe they would "do the right thing" ... do you have as much faith in them as the clients of Bernie Madoff had in him before they found out he had taken them for every cent they had?

I'm not saying the Morse Family won't step up to the plate and do the right thing if push comes to shove or that they are in any way like Bernie Madoff and what he did, I'm just pointing out that there are a lot of ruthless business people out there.

:BigApplause:

[Taj44]

I would recommend you try a retirement community outside of Florida. If you have this much worry about the bonds, You will never be happy here. We on the other hand love this place and trust the Morse's.

I'm not dissing the Morse's, but just being realistic about business people and their practices.

[Rag Bagger]

we ever hear anything from The Morse Family about this issue? I don't know but I think it will be a non issue for TV residence so long as there is more development going forward. The "M" family still have a lot to do here and I don't think they would kill the goose that has laid the golden egg. But I wonder why we don't ever hear from them about this issue?

So relax for at least the next five years or so. JMO

[mulligan]

I'll bet they would never speak publicly on any issue that might be even remotely controversial. They're attention to only positive statements is a great sales tool. Can 80,00 people be wrong. Could they get away with anything shady for better than 25 years. IMHO, not much of a chance on either count.

[bimmertl]

I'll bet they would never speak publicly on any issue that might be even remotely controversial. They're attention to only positive statements is a great sales tool. Can 80,00 people be wrong. Could they get away with anything shady for better than 25 years. IMHO, not much of a chance on either count.

They can't get away with it if somebody is paying attention and wants to take them to court, which is the only option with Morse and his minions.

http://www.ccfj.net/CDDVillages$40milllawsuit.html

[BobKat1]

I'll bet they would never speak publicly on any issue that might be even remotely controversial. They're attention to only positive statements is a great sales tool. Can 80,00 people be wrong. Could they get away with anything shady for better than 25 years. IMHO, not much of a chance on either count.

You are probably correct. All of the retirement communities that we've looked at are the same way, stressing just the positives and the lifestyle.

[jannd228]

to link look at the ribbon/icon tool bar here click the icon that looks lie a globe and then post your link, hope this helps

http://www.ccfj.net/CDDVillages$40milllawsuit.html

[Bogie Shooter]

we ever hear anything from The Morse Family about this issue? I don't know but I think it will be a non issue for TV residence so long as there is more development going forward. The "M" family still have a lot to do here and I don't think they would kill the goose that has laid the golden egg. But I wonder why we don't ever hear from them about this issue?

So relax for at least the next five years or so. JMO
What is it you want to hear from them?

[Bogie Shooter]

"Well said, I love it here too but don't trust the Morse's.

Willy"

Developers are there to make as much money as they can, develop an area and pocket the money

I don't think in this economy you can trust anyone completely, the Morses were sued and lost before, the IRS will get their money, I think you need to develop a community group BEFORE anything else happens, it never hurts to discuss in an open forum and with the talent in The Villages you should pursue options

this is the suit they lost

http://www.sptimes.com/2008/03/10/State/The_Villages_develope.shtml
How long have you lived in The Villages?

[graciegirl]

www.flalottery.com/inet/currentNewsContent.do?searchI

I hope this link works, I just read that a villager won a million dollars in the lottery last month.

YES. I am trying to get off this subject of gloom and doom.

Read this, smile, and then go back to what you were talking about.:boxing2:

[Bogie Shooter]

They can't get away with it if somebody is paying attention and wants to take them to court, which is the only option with Morse and his minions.

http://www.ccfj.net/CDDVillages$40milllawsuit.html
When did you move to The Villages?

[Bogie Shooter]

I'll bet they would never speak publicly on any issue that might be even remotely controversial. They're attention to only positive statements is a great sales tool. Can 80,00 people be wrong. Could they get away with anything shady for better than 25 years. IMHO, not much of a chance on either count.
Here ya go.....the public statements.


http://www.districtgov.org/IRSupdate.aspx

[Taj44]

They can't get away with it if somebody is paying attention and wants to take them to court, which is the only option with Morse and his minions.

http://www.ccfj.net/CDDVillages$40milllawsuit.html

Thanks for posting the link, bimmertl.

[Bogie Shooter]

They can't get away with it if somebody is paying attention and wants to take them to court, which is the only option with Morse and his minions.

http://www.ccfj.net/CDDVillages$40milllawsuit.html
Here is another link on the lawsuit.
http://www.thevillagesfl.us/classactionsettlement.htm

[villa2]

They can't get away with it if somebody is paying attention and wants to take them to court, which is the only option with Morse and his minions.

http://www.ccfj.net/CDDVillages$40milllawsuit.html

I'm confused. Who are Mr. Morses's minions?

[jannd228]

Here is another link on the lawsuit.
http://www.thevillagesfl.us/classactionsettlement.htm

:BigApplause:

[villa2]

:BigApplause:

You don't like the Villages? Why are you clapping?

[jannd228]

You don't like the Villages? Why are you clapping?

I think the Villages is a wonderful place to live, I just don't trust developers, they are following the Disney model, I attended the Disney business management courses

and the clapping is for the link posted

[iaudit]

I would recommend you try a retirement community outside of Florida. If you have this much worry about the bonds, You will never be happy here. We on the other hand love this place and trust the Morse's.

Who exactly is the we that you speak about? I have lived here for almost four years and I do not trust the Morses. Because our local "newspaper" does not really report the news, most of the people in the Villages are not even aware of the IRS bond issue.

[villa2]

Who exactly is the we that you speak about? I have lived here for almost four years and I do not trust the Morses. Because our local "newspaper" does not really report the news, most of the people in the Villages are not even aware of the IRS bond issue.

Just curious. Did you trust the Morses when you bought into the Villages? How long were you there before you distrusted them? I have been researching the Villages for 2 1/2 years and I trust them. But I also trust my bank, my contractors, my insurance agent, my favorite car salesman, dry cleaner, grocery store etc. When I lose trust I will find another to replace.

I'm sorry, I mean no disrespect, but I probably would have to move if I distrusted my circumstances.

[iaudit]

Just curious. Did you trust the Morses when you bought into the Villages? How long were you there before you distrusted them? I have been researching the Villages for 2 1/2 years and I trust them. But I also trust my bank, my contractors, my insurance agent, my favorite car salesman, dry cleaner, grocery store etc. When I lose trust I will find another to replace.

I'm sorry, I mean no disrespect, but I probably would have to move if I distrusted my circumstances.

Sorry, I have no intentions of moving just because I do not trust the Morses. I admire the Morses for what they have created here but the bottom line is that they are in it for the money. If they had 100% control of everything here, I probably would move.

One of the things that I think about (not worry about) is to what degree they subsidize some of the things that we enjoy in the community (nightly entertainment, cost to play the championship courses, etc.). Will any of these things we eliminated or reduced when the villages is built out in a couple of years? The real profit for the developer is in the houses that he sells and once all the land is developed, will he pull all subsidies. Like I said, I don't stay up nights worrying about this ( or the IRS bond isuue), but I do think about it.

A lot of my skepticism with the Morses is due to the things the POA have taken him to task for: the lack of reserves for the sold amenities (resulting in a $40 million settlement), the siding issue (they basically took over half my siding off, replaced some sheathing, and rehung the siding and they also resided or rehung a significant number of houses in my neighborhood), payments for repairing sinkholes, retracting the free cable offer - just to name a couple.

I also think it is a real shame the Morses don't interact with community on a regular basis and entertain questions from the residents, like the founder Harold Schwartz was said to do.

BTW, I have never heard of anyone that trusts a car salesman!!!!!!!!

[Bogie Shooter]

Sorry, I have no intentions of moving just because I do not trust the Morses. I admire the Morses for what they have created here but the bottom line is that they are in it for the money. If they had 100% control of everything here, I probably would move.

One of the things that I think about (not worry about) is to what degree they subsidize some of the things that we enjoy in the community (nightly entertainment, cost to play the championship courses, etc.). Will any of these things we eliminated or reduced when the villages is built out in a couple of years? The real profit for the developer is in the houses that he sells and once all the land is developed, will he pull all subsidies. Like I said, I don't stay up nights worrying about this ( or the IRS bond isuue), but I do think about it.

A lot of my skepticism with the Morses is due to the things the POA have taken him to task for: the lack of reserves for the sold amenities (resulting in a $40 million settlement), the siding issue (they basically took over half my siding off, replaced some sheathing, and rehung the siding and they also resided or rehung a significant number of houses in my neighborhood), payments for repairing sinkholes, retracting the free cable offer - just to name a couple.

I also think it is a real shame the Morses don't interact with community on a regular basis and entertain questions from the residents, like the founder Harold Schwartz was said to do.

BTW, I have never heard of anyone that trusts a car salesman!!!!!!!!

Shaking 80,000 hands would take a long time. Harold knew everyone because there were only 200 trailers at the time. Can you imagine a town hall meeting once a month?

[`willy]

Just curious. Did you trust the Morses when you bought into the Villages? How long were you there before you distrusted them? I have been researching the Villages for 2 1/2 years and I trust them. But I also trust my bank, my contractors, my insurance agent, my favorite car salesman, dry cleaner, grocery store etc. When I lose trust I will find another to replace.

I'm sorry, I mean no disrespect, but I probably would have to move if I distrusted my circumstances.

Its a shame, after 2 1/2 years of research, you didn't find TOTV till 2010.
You missed a lot of posts from Villagers that distrusted the developer. They
can't all move.

Willy

[dillywho]

Sorry, I have no intentions of moving just because I do not trust the Morses. I admire the Morses for what they have created here but the bottom line is that they are in it for the money. If they had 100% control of everything here, I probably would move.

One of the things that I think about (not worry about) is to what degree they subsidize some of the things that we enjoy in the community (nightly entertainment, cost to play the championship courses, etc.). Will any of these things we eliminated or reduced when the villages is built out in a couple of years? The real profit for the developer is in the houses that he sells and once all the land is developed, will he pull all subsidies. Like I said, I don't stay up nights worrying about this ( or the IRS bond isuue), but I do think about it.

A lot of my skepticism with the Morses is due to the things the POA have taken him to task for: the lack of reserves for the sold amenities (resulting in a $40 million settlement), the siding issue (they basically took over half my siding off, replaced some sheathing, and rehung the siding and they also resided or rehung a significant number of houses in my neighborhood), payments for repairing sinkholes, retracting the free cable offer - just to name a couple.

I also think it is a real shame the Morses don't interact with community on a regular basis and entertain questions from the residents, like the founder Harold Schwartz was said to do.

BTW, I have never heard of anyone that trusts a car salesman!!!!!!!!

You say that the Morses' are in it for the money. Do you honestly think they should take all the risks, provide what is here for everyone, and not get anything for it? Would you?

As for the free cable, do you know of anyplace that furnishes cable? We came here in 2004 and cable was not free then. It was not Comcast, but Clearlink and, yes, we paid for it. If you used it for your internet, then TheVillages.net was included and continued for a while with Comcast when they took over. I think you are probably actually talking about the tee time system. That only applies if you play golf and if the cable company went up on them, why should they absorb that cost for you (cable charges are most always on the rise)? You do not have to use TheVillages.net as your internet provider otherwise.

I cannot blame them for not interacting as Mr. Schwartz was said to do. Why would they want to come out just to be criticized on every phase of what's here that they don't totally foot the bill for? I was not here then, but I would like for those who were to tell everyone what the atmosphere was. Did they all expect Mr. Schwartz to furnish everything? From what I've heard, his concept was for this place to be affordable for everyone which by definition, affordable is not free/furnished.

Will they leave when buildout occurs? I hope not, but I sure couldn't blame them.

[villa2]

Its a shame, after 2 1/2 years of research, you didn't find TOTV till 2010.
You missed a lot of posts from Villagers that distrusted the developer. They
can't all move.

Willy
Looks like you assume before you get the facts.
I am a long time TOTV lurker. The archives are still there,as is the search tool.

What percentage of villagers, would you estimate, would move if given the opportunity? Do you want to move? Maybe you can offer me a deal because I will be down there when my home is sold.

[Pturner]

My husband and I have been going back and forth renting houses in the Villages to get a feel for life here. Then I read a few articles about the IRS and the Villages management in a battle over back taxes and the bonds implemented when you purchase a home saying they (the Villages management have no authority to initiate this bond). For fear of retrobution and or additional monies being tossed to the residents to have to pay, we have decided to not move here solely for that reason. Also, we hear there are so many "ammenity fees" that you pay just to live in the Villages. Is there information on this IRS issue I can review and how many "fees" does one pay just to live in the Villages?

I would appreciate input from anyone!!!

A couple points of clarification and a question:

The IRS doesn't question TV's authority to issue bonds. The IRS is reviewing whether revenue bonds issued on the sale of the amenities should have qualified as tax-exempt, and is questioning the valuation used.

There's only one "amenities" fee, but there are additional fees. There is an annual maintenance assessment and a one-time bond on each home in TV that is paid over a 30-year period. Other fees and restrictions may apply. See store for details. Not valid with other offers. :) (You get an outstanding quality of life and lots of excellent amenities for these charges, in my opinion. They're just not free.)

What do you mean by fear of retribution?

[`willy]

Looks like you assume before you get the facts.
I am a long time TOTV lurker. The archives are still there,as is the search tool.

What percentage of villagers, would you estimate, would move if given the opportunity? Do you want to move? Maybe you can offer me a deal because I will be down there when my home is sold.

I have no idea, But you can give me a shout when your ready to move.
Willy

[iaudit]

Dillywho responded:

You say that the Morses' are in it for the money. Do you honestly think they should take all the risks, provide what is here for everyone, and not get anything for it? Would you?

Never said they shouldn't make money, just said that is what they are doing all of this for.

As for the free cable, do you know of anyplace that furnishes cable? We came here in 2004 and cable was not free then. It was not Comcast, but Clearlink and, yes, we paid for it. If you used it for your internet, then TheVillages.net was included and continued for a while with Comcast when they took over. I think you are probably actually talking about the tee time system. That only applies if you play golf and if the cable company went up on them, why should they absorb that cost for you (cable charges are most always on the rise)? You do not have to use TheVillages.net as your internet provider otherwise.

The developer at one time, in order to entice landowners to build on the lots that were sold, promised them free cable service if they would build. This was before the current business model of selling houses and lots together. After a period of time, the developer tried to go back on the deal. Ended up grandfathering in the original lot owners but not subsequent resales. Wasn't asking for anything free, just pointing out how they can and did go back on certain agreements.
As far as the tee time system, why doesn't the central districts run the tee time system since they will eventually "own" all the executive courses. It doesn't cost anywhere near what is being charged to either develop or run the system.

I cannot blame them for not interacting as Mr. Schwartz was said to do. Why would they want to come out just to be criticized on every phase of what's here that they don't totally foot the bill for? I was not here then, but I would like for those who were to tell everyone what the atmosphere was. Did they all expect Mr. Schwartz to furnish everything? From what I've heard, his concept was for this place to be affordable for everyone which by definition, affordable is not free/furnished.

Never said they should foot the bill for everything, just thought it would be nice for the Morses to meet their neighbors once in awhile.

Will they leave when buildout occurs? I hope not, but I sure couldn't blame them.

[villa2]

I have no idea, But you can give me a shout when your ready to move.
Willy

OK. But not sure I want a Lantana.