Would you like to know how many illegals are entering the country?

[Tblue]

How about all networks post the number of illegals entering the country. Maybe a little screen in the upper right hand corner of the television screen. Much like the running total of COVID deaths, the daily COVID death count and new cases of COVID. Maybe two or three numbers, maybe the number of known illegals who have entered, an estimated total number of illegals and maybe a third number of how many tested negative for COVID?

[JMintzer]

Like that'll ever happen...

[Topspinmo]

Not going to happen. Headline news opening Covid-19 death counts stopped in middle of January.

[GrumpyOldMan]

It is not going to happen because it will not make money for the people distributing it.

And personally, I don't care - I have researched it, and the total number of "illegals" at this point is estimated to be around 10 to 15 million, and their economic contribution more than outweighs their economic costs. There is no evidence they impact elections (other than abstractly, meaning people vote on border security or against it, not there is no evidence enough illegals vote to make any difference in elections.)

[Taltarzac725]

Immigration Data and Statistics | Homeland Security (https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statistics)

Some of that information is available.

[Love2Swim]

Another post designed to stir up trouble? someone must really be bored.....yawn.

[JMintzer]

Not going to happen. Headline news opening Covid-19 death counts stopped in middle of January.

I wonder why?

[MrFlorida]

It does not fit their agenda, you will never see it.

[JMintzer]

It is not going to happen because it will not make money for the people distributing it.

And personally, I don't care - I have researched it, and the total number of "illegals" at this point is estimated to be around 10 to 15 million, and their economic contribution more than outweighs their economic costs. There is no evidence they impact elections (other than abstractly, meaning people vote on border security or against it, not there is no evidence enough illegals vote to make any difference in elections.)

How 'bout some links to that "research"?

Otherwise, it's just an opinion...

[Bogie Shooter]

Another post designed to stir up trouble? someone must really be bored.....yawn.

Typical from OP…….another pot stirring post with no value………

[GrumpyOldMan]

How 'bout some links to that "research"?

Otherwise, it's just an opinion...

Which items, I will be glad to provide links. However, I can not prove a negative, so if you are asking about elections, I can't prove they don't influence them, that would be on someone else to prove they do - some (many?) have tried, none have succeeded to prove massive fraud (sufficient to affect the outcome) - yet.

As to the economic impact and numbers here is a report by Brooking Edu.

How many undocumented immigrants are in the United States and who are they? (https://www.brookings.edu/policy2020/votervital/how-many-undocumented-immigrants-are-in-the-united-states-and-who-are-they/)

[retiredguy123]

OP, what do you mean by "illegals"? It seems to me that the people who claim asylum and are released into the country are not illegal. They are legal residents. The unaccompanied minors and others who are allowed to stay are also legal residents. And, those that are apprehended, but released by the Government without deportation, are legal residents. I think that anyone who is processed by the Government and allowed to stay is a legal resident. Also, if the Government passes a law to provide the 10-12 million estimated illegal residents a "pathway" to citizenship, then those people would immediately become legal residents because they could not be deported.

[JMintzer]

Which items, I will be glad to provide links. However, I can not prove a negative, so if you are asking about elections, I can't prove they don't influence them, that would be on someone else to prove they do - some (many?) have tried, none have succeeded to prove massive fraud (sufficient to affect the outcome) - yet.

As to the economic impact and numbers here is a report by Brooking Edu.

How many undocumented immigrants are in the United States and who are they? (https://www.brookings.edu/policy2020/votervital/how-many-undocumented-immigrants-are-in-the-united-states-and-who-are-they/)

The question was how many are entering... Not how many may already be here and not what is the perceived cost/value ratio...

[JMintzer]

OP, what do you mean by "illegals"? It seems to me that the people who claim asylum and are released into the country are not illegal. They are legal residents. The unaccompanied minors and others who are allowed to stay are also legal residents. And, those that are apprehended, but released by the Government without deportation, are legal residents. I think that anyone who is processed by the Government and allowed to stay is a legal resident. Also, if the Government passes a law to provide the 10-12 million estimated illegal residents a "pathway" to citizenship, then those people would immediately become legal residents because they could not be deported.

You think incorrectly...

They are given court dates to determine their legality...

[GrumpyOldMan]

You think incorrectly...

They are given court dates to determine their legality...

Well, you are both right.

The law specifically allows for anyone that reaches American soil to request asylum and they are supposed to be given a court date to determine if they can stay. So, the court date is to determine if they can stay legally. But, until the court date, they are technically here "legally" applying for asylum.

The court system is completely broken and can take 2 to 3 years (or longer) to hear the case. So, the court has to option to lock them up and pay incarceration fees or let them lose (hall pass) until the case can be seen.

IF politicians wanted to solve the "illegal immigrant" problem on the border the first and obvious step would be to fix the court system so the person/people seeking asylum would have their case heard the same day or within days.

I am pretty sure we will NEVER see a solution, it is way too juicy a topic for politicians to run on for or against. So, they will never solve it, simply keep it around to help stir up the base (both sides.)

And if you think this is new, try again, in the 1930s the exact same things were going on, and "they" tried rounding them up and deporting them with disastrous results.

[GrumpyOldMan]

The question was how many are entering... Not how many may already be here and not what is the perceived cost/value ratio...

Hmm, nope - from the OP:

Maybe two or three numbers, maybe the number of known illegals who have entered, an estimated total number of illegals and maybe a third number of how many tested negative for COVID?

[retiredguy123]

You think incorrectly...

They are given court dates to determine their legality...
Aren't you legal until proven to be illegal? Isn't it the same concept as being innocent until proven guilty? Entering the country illegally is a violation of the law. If you have a court date, then the Government is accusing you of being here illegally.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Aren't you legal until proven to be illegal? Isn't it the same concept as being innocent until proven guilty? Entering the country illegally is a violation of the law. If you have a court date, then the Government is accusing you of being here illegally.

Well, that would take a lawyer to answer and is semantics. One could argue that as long as they obey the court order while waiting for a hearing they are obeying the law, and so are not here "illegally".

But, calling them illegals makes it so much easier to hate them.

[Bucco]

Well, you are both right.

The law specifically allows for anyone that reaches American soil to request asylum and they are supposed to be given a court date to determine if they can stay. So, the court date is to determine if they can stay legally. But, until the court date, they are technically here "legally" applying for asylum.

The court system is completely broken and can take 2 to 3 years (or longer) to hear the case. So, the court has to option to lock them up and pay incarceration fees or let them lose (hall pass) until the case can be seen.

IF politicians wanted to solve the "illegal immigrant" problem on the border the first and obvious step would be to fix the court system so the person/people seeking asylum would have their case heard the same day or within days.

I am pretty sure we will NEVER see a solution, it is way too juicy a topic for politicians to run on for or against. So, they will never solve it, simply keep it around to help stir up the base (both sides.)

And if you think this is new, try again, in the 1930s the exact same things were going on, and "they" tried rounding them up and deporting them with disastrous results.

There is no DISCUSSION at all.....simply calling names. If we do not begin to TALK with each other, with brain engaged, and political coups aside, there will be no solution. I had some hope a few years ago about some bi partisan legislation, but they was shelved to the loud “build the wall” chants.

To the OP.....to what end is a scrolling of “illegal” immigrants ?

We desperately need immigrants or our children conomy will suffer. Let’s. Stop chanting and begin to talk about it, with a goal of at least beginning legislation.

[John41]

How about all networks post the number of illegals entering the country. Maybe a little screen in the upper right hand corner of the television screen. Much like the running total of COVID deaths, the daily COVID death count and new cases of COVID. Maybe two or three numbers, maybe the number of known illegals who have entered, an estimated total number of illegals and maybe a third number of how many tested negative for COVID?

I feel for people living on the border. Lots of crime and drugs.

[JGVillages]

It is not going to happen because it will not make money for the people distributing it.

And personally, I don't care - I have researched it, and the total number of "illegals" at this point is estimated to be around 10 to 15 million, and their economic contribution more than outweighs their economic costs. There is no evidence they impact elections (other than abstractly, meaning people vote on border security or against it, not there is no evidence enough illegals vote to make any difference in elections.)

It’s against the LAW. Kids must wear masks in school but 4,000 non vaccinated ILLEGALS can come into the USA daily. Oh and don’t forget, it’s against the LAW.

[coralway]

How about all networks post the number of illegals entering the country. Maybe a little screen in the upper right hand corner of the television screen. Much like the running total of COVID deaths, the daily COVID death count and new cases of COVID. Maybe two or three numbers, maybe the number of known illegals who have entered, an estimated total number of illegals and maybe a third number of how many tested negative for COVID?





How about you post how much $$ they pay in taxes every year? I will bet you a person who works in the fields all day pays more in taxes than most elected government officials, past and present.

They can live next door to me any day.

Get off your high horse.

[GrumpyOldMan]

I feel for people living on the border. Lots of crime and drugs.

Well, my brother lives "on the border" and is active with the immigrants (via his church) and he says it is not drugs and crime the problems are the churches and others trying to help the immigrants with food and shelter and medications don't have the resources, and the government is so screwed up they can get almost no help from it.

Sure there is some crime and drugs, but less (percentage-wise) than among legal Americans. They KNOW if they are caught they will be deported, so for the most part they try to maintain a low profile.

[Bucco]

I feel for people living on the border. Lots of crime and drugs.

Yep, no crime in middle America, only on the border.

Read instead of following....everyone agrees there are problems, but the simple adolescent name calling and trite slogans are not going to resolve anything. IF, in fact you seek a solution.

I join in saying “get off your high horse”

[GrumpyOldMan]

It’s against the LAW. Kids must wear masks in school but 4,000 non vaccinated ILLEGALS can come into the USA daily. Oh and don’t forget, it’s against the LAW.

I disagree with you. It is NOT against the law for a person seeking asylum to enter the US. The law specially provides for that.

And if in fact so many unvaccinated immigrants are coming in - why not use up those stores of vaccines we have because so many don't want them?

And what has trying to protect school children got to do with illegal or legal immigration?

[Becca9800]

How about all networks post the number of illegals entering the country. Maybe a little screen in the upper right hand corner of the television screen. Much like the running total of COVID deaths, the daily COVID death count and new cases of COVID. Maybe two or three numbers, maybe the number of known illegals who have entered, an estimated total number of illegals and maybe a third number of how many tested negative for COVID?

First there'd have to be an acknowledgment by the media that people are entering illegally. And that can't happen because "no one is illegal".

[Dana1963]

How about all networks post the number of illegals entering the country. Maybe a little screen in the upper right hand corner of the television screen. Much like the running total of COVID deaths, the daily COVID death count and new cases of COVID. Maybe two or three numbers, maybe the number of known illegals who have entered, an estimated total number of illegals and maybe a third number of how many tested negative for COVID?
How many EMPLOYERS hiring illegal immigrants are actually criminally prosecuted.
Until that stops there will be an endless stream this also includes people from Europe that overstay their visas!

[Joe V.]

How many EMPLOYERS hiring illegal immigrants are actually criminally prosecuted.
Until that stops there will be an endless stream this also includes people from Europe that overstay their visas!

Deflection.

[Joe V.]

Aren't you legal until proven to be illegal? Isn't it the same concept as being innocent until proven guilty? Entering the country illegally is a violation of the law. If you have a court date, then the Government is accusing you of being here illegally.

Sophistry. Very soft at that. The very act of crossing the border without authorization is criminal.

[GrumpyOldMan]

How about you post how much $$ they pay in taxes every year? I will bet you a person who works in the fields all day pays more in taxes than most elected government officials, past and present.

They can live next door to me any day.

Get off your high horse.

Here is a brief summary of the economic impacts: (It is a very complex subject with lots of opportunities to come to false conclusions.)

A review of the academic literature by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) found that "over the past few decades, most efforts to estimate the fiscal impact of immigration in the United States have concluded that, in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use."

While the overall fiscal impact on the US is beneficial, unauthorized immigrants have an adverse impact on the budgets of some state and local governments. While cautioning that the reports are not a suitable basis for developing an aggregate national effect across all states, they concluded that:

"State and local governments incur costs for providing services to unauthorized immigrants and have limited options for avoiding or minimizing those costs"

"The amount that state and local governments spend on services for unauthorized immigrants represents a SMALL percentage of the total amount spent by those governments to provide such services to residents in their jurisdictions"

"The tax revenues that unauthorized immigrants generate for state and local governments do not offset the total cost of services provided to those immigrants",

and

"Federal aid programs offer resources to state and local governments that provide services to unauthorized immigrants, but those funds do not fully cover the costs incurred by those governments."

The IRS estimates that about 6 million unauthorized immigrants file individual income tax returns each year. (Think about it - they are "illegal" and file income tax returns...)

Research reviewed by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes.

Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay about $7 BILLION per year into Social Security.(Which they will never get back in the form of SS payments)

In addition, they spend billions of dollars per year, which supports the US economy and helps to create new jobs. The Texas State Comptroller reported in 2006 that the 1.4 million unauthorized immigrants in Texas added almost $18 BILLION to the gross state product, and contributed $1.58 billion in state revenue while costing the state about $1.16 billion in services used.

So, what's the next crime? I can provide reports from law enforcement around the country that the undocumented populations in their cities and countries have LOWER crime rates than citizens. The explanation seems to be they are trying to maintain a low profile so they don't get deported.

We can keep going round and round - we have been doing it since the 1930's - or we could try to find solutions that both sides can benefit from. But, then what would the Politicians use to keep us mad at each other.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Sophistry. Very soft at that. The very act of crossing the border without authorization is criminal.

No, it is NOT. Jeez.

Read the law, it is NOT illegal for a person seeking asylum to cross the border and turn themselves in.

Yes, I agree not ALL undocumented aliens are seeking asylum, and yes, I agree some of the ones claiming to are just trying to game the system.

But, if a person from another country places a foot on American Soil they can turn themselves in and ask for asylum - LEGALLY.

Saying it is illegal over and over does not make it so.

[Joe V.]

No, it is NOT. Jeez.

Read the law, it is NOT illegal for a person seeking asylum to cross the border and turn themselves in.

Yes, I agree not ALL undocumented aliens are seeking asylum, and yes, I agree some of the ones claiming to are just trying to game the system.

But, if a person from another country places a foot on American Soil they can turn themselves in and ask for asylum - LEGALLY.

Saying it is illegal over and over does not make it so.

Fact. 90+ % of asylum claims are not granted. They are here illegally. also:

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien

U.S. Code
Notes

prev | next
(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts

Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penaltiesAny alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.
(c) Marriage fraud

Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both.
(d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud

Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance with title 18, or both.
(June 27, 1952, ch. 477, title II, ch. 8, § 275, 66 Stat. 229; Pub. L. 99–639, § 2(d), Nov. 10, 1986, 100 Stat. 3542; Pub. L. 101–649, title I, § 121(b)(3), title V, § 543(b)(2), Nov. 29, 1990, 104 Stat. 4994, 5059; Pub. L. 102–232, title III, § 306(c)(3), Dec. 12, 1991, 105 Stat. 1752; Pub. L. 104–208, div. C, title I, § 105(a), Sept. 30, 1996, 110 Stat. 3009–556.)

[peachpit]

Stop it, please stop it. I am so sick of this back and forth a lot of which is brought from the media to boost their ratings. We used to have meaningful dialog presenting a factual basis on both sides of an issue. Can we please all agree to meet at a forum in The Villages at a place to come together and have an intelligent discussion of the issues? We could be a model for the rest of the country.

[Ben Franklin]

How about all networks post the number of illegals entering the country. Maybe a little screen in the upper right hand corner of the television screen. Much like the running total of COVID deaths, the daily COVID death count and new cases of COVID. Maybe two or three numbers, maybe the number of known illegals who have entered, an estimated total number of illegals and maybe a third number of how many tested negative for COVID?

What's your criteria for illegal? Asylum seekers have a right to cross borders to seek asylum.

Have any of the illegals taken away your job as a crop picker? Maybe we can get an accurate count there, but then who would pick the crops?

According to American Natives, there are about 330 million illegals.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Fact. 90+ % of asylum claims are not granted. They are here illegally. also:

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien

U.S. Code
Notes

prev | next
(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts

Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penaltiesAny alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.
(c) Marriage fraud

Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both.
(d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud

Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance with title 18, or both.
(June 27, 1952, ch. 477, title II, ch. 8, § 275, 66 Stat. 229; Pub. L. 99–639, § 2(d), Nov. 10, 1986, 100 Stat. 3542; Pub. L. 101–649, title I, § 121(b)(3), title V, § 543(b)(2), Nov. 29, 1990, 104 Stat. 4994, 5059; Pub. L. 102–232, title III, § 306(c)(3), Dec. 12, 1991, 105 Stat. 1752; Pub. L. 104–208, div. C, title I, § 105(a), Sept. 30, 1996, 110 Stat. 3009–556.)

NOTHING you posted contradicted what I posted. You simply pointed out all the ways immigration can be done illegally, but do not address asylum.

Second, until the asylum case is denied they are not illegal - it IS legal to request asylum.

And you 90% denied is an interesting number. The New York Immigration Court led the country in having the widest disparity among judges serving on the same court. Depending upon the judge, denial rates ranged from 95 percent down to 3 per*cent.

And even so, until denied they are not illegal. Even if 100% were eventually denied until denied they are not illegal.

[Joe V.]

NOTHING you posted contradicted what I posted. You simply pointed out all the ways immigration can be done illegally, but do not address asylum.

Second, until the asylum case is denied they are not illegal - it IS legal to request asylum.

And you 90% denied is an interesting number. The New York Immigration Court led the country in having the widest disparity among judges serving on the same court. Depending upon the judge, denial rates ranged from 95 percent down to 3 per*cent.

And even so, until denied they are not illegal. Even if 100% were eventually denied until denied they are not illegal.

Blah, blah, blah. Word games is all you offer.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Blah, blah, blah. Word games is all you offer.

Seriously?

I offer the law. Blah blah, blah - very mature response. So, the law is important until YOU don't like it, then it becomes blah blah blah?

EDITED: I apologize. My reply to you was inappropriate. I would very much like to hear what you have to contribute!

[Timothyimitchell]

It is not going to happen because it will not make money for the people distributing it.

And personally, I don't care - I have researched it, and the total number of "illegals" at this point is estimated to be around 10 to 15 million, and their economic contribution more than outweighs their economic costs. There is no evidence they impact elections (other than abstractly, meaning people vote on border security or against it, not there is no evidence enough illegals vote to make any difference in elections.)

CNN tell you that? NBC, CBS, ABC.???

[GrumpyOldMan]

CNN tell you that? NBC, CBS, ABC.???

No, I posted a link to a reference earlier in this thread, I can post many more if you would like.

I would be interested in why you assume I got my information from one of those. If you have read any of my posts in the past you would know that I do not watch any of those. I watch Fox, OAN, and Newsmax, and I do a LOT of research reading sources like OMB, Harvard Law review, NEJM, Federalist Papers, and on and on.

[John41]

How about all networks post the number of illegals entering the country. Maybe a little screen in the upper right hand corner of the television screen. Much like the running total of COVID deaths, the daily COVID death count and new cases of COVID. Maybe two or three numbers, maybe the number of known illegals who have entered, an estimated total number of illegals and maybe a third number of how many tested negative for COVID?

Non-citizens constitute only about 7 percent of the U.S. population. Yet the latest data from the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics reveals that non-citizens accounted for nearly two-thirds (64 percent) of all federal arrests in 2018. Just two decades earlier, only 37 percent of all federal arrests were non-citizens.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Non-citizens constitute only about 7 percent of the U.S. population. Yet the latest data from the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics reveals that non-citizens accounted for nearly two-thirds (64 percent) of all federal arrests in 2018. Just two decades earlier, only 37 percent of all federal arrests were non-citizens.

Hmm, and what do we conclude from that statistic?

The previous administration made a priority of rounding up "illegal" aliens, which would be a Federal Crime. A LOT of money was spent and a lot of arrests were made. So, is that the point?

[Art cov]

Another problem is the border crossing is used by people from terrorist countries skipping across into our country. So they will do their activities here. Maybe with conditions in Haiti, our government will allow 2 million Haitians into Florida to save them from chaos in their country. If they allowed Haitians to live in our counties, we would then be able to understand how border cities in Texas feel. Remember it’s not the Sunday school classes that are coming, some are criminals,

[GrumpyOldMan]

Another problem is the border crossing is used by people from terrorist countries skipping across into our country. So they will do their activities here. Maybe with conditions in Haiti, our government will allow 2 million Haitians into Florida to save them from chaos in their country. If they allowed Haitians to live in our counties, we would then be able to understand how border cities in Texas feel. Remember it’s not the Sunday school classes that are coming, some are criminals,

This is in some ways true. However, the number reported by the DHS doesn't support that it is a major problem compared to other sources of terrorists.

Only a very few have come across our southern border. Of course, there could be millions of terrorist cells in the US just waiting for the moment they all get the word to blow things up. Could happen.

[Art cov]

DHS don’t even know, maybe ten percent. I’m sure they would take care of their own and have a more sophisticated way of getting their people picked up. The war on terror seems to be a joke when the border is wide open. Iranians, Syrians are crossing over also nearly 100 countries we are told were representative at the border. Without a border enforcement, we will have no country. We will wake up one day and say (what has happened )

[GrumpyOldMan]

DHS don’t even know, maybe ten percent. I’m sure they would take care of their own and have a more sophisticated way of getting their people picked up. The war on terror seems to be a joke when the border is wide open. Iranians, Syrians are crossing over also nearly 100 countries we are told were representative at the border. Without a border enforcement, we will have no country. We will wake up one day and say (what has happened )

Could happen

[JMintzer]

Well, you are both right.

The law specifically allows for anyone that reaches American soil to request asylum and they are supposed to be given a court date to determine if they can stay. So, the court date is to determine if they can stay legally. But, until the court date, they are technically here "legally" applying for asylum.going on, and "they" tried rounding them up and deporting them with disastrous results.

Sorry, but that's wrong. You and only apply for asylum at LEGAL points of entry...

Crossing the Rio Grande doesn't count...

[JMintzer]

Aren't you legal until proven to be illegal? Isn't it the same concept as being innocent until proven guilty? Entering the country illegally is a violation of the law. If you have a court date, then the Government is accusing you of being here illegally.

Only if you enter legally... The court date is to determine if asylum is to be granted...

Most never show up for said court date...

[JMintzer]

Well, that would take a lawyer to answer and is semantics. One could argue that as long as they obey the court order while waiting for a hearing they are obeying the law, and so are not here "illegally".

But, calling them illegals makes it so much easier to hate them.

No, it's because that is the correct term for those who entered the country ILLEGALLY.

Not those who LEGALLY entered thru a point of entry and requested asylum...

[JMintzer]

There is no DISCUSSION at all.....simply calling names. If we do not begin to TALK with each other, with brain engaged, and political coups aside, there will be no solution. I had some hope a few years ago about some bi partisan legislation, but they was shelved to the loud “build the wall” chants.

To the OP.....to what end is a scrolling of “illegal” immigrants ?

We desperately need immigrants or our children conomy will suffer. Let’s. Stop chanting and begin to talk about it, with a goal of at least beginning legislation.

You forgot the LEGAL part...

[Tblue]

What's your criteria for illegal? Asylum seekers have a right to cross borders to seek asylum.

Have any of the illegals taken away your job as a crop picker? Maybe we can get an accurate count there, but then who would pick the crops?

According to American Natives, there are about 330 million illegals.

My criteria for illegal is someone crossing not at a legal point of entry. Have any illegals taken away my job as a crop picker……..Yep. I just want to see something like we saw for the daily tracking of COVID deaths, a daily tracking of how many enter our country illegally.

[JMintzer]

I disagree with you. It is NOT against the law for a person seeking asylum to enter the US. The law specially provides for that.

And if in fact so many unvaccinated immigrants are coming in - why not use up those stores of vaccines we have because so many don't want them?

And what has trying to protect school children got to do with illegal or legal immigration?

It's against the law if they enter ILLEGALLY (not at a point of entry)...

And as far as the "school children" goes, where do you think the children of the illegal immigrants will be attending school?

[JMintzer]

How many EMPLOYERS hiring illegal immigrants are actually criminally prosecuted.
Until that stops there will be an endless stream this also includes people from Europe that overstay their visas!

Agreed. That is a problem that needs to be addressed...

[JMintzer]

Here is a brief summary of the economic impacts: (It is a very complex subject with lots of opportunities to come to false conclusions.)

A review of the academic literature by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) found that "over the past few decades, most efforts to estimate the fiscal impact of immigration in the United States have concluded that, in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use."

While the overall fiscal impact on the US is beneficial, unauthorized immigrants have an adverse impact on the budgets of some state and local governments. While cautioning that the reports are not a suitable basis for developing an aggregate national effect across all states, they concluded that:

"State and local governments incur costs for providing services to unauthorized immigrants and have limited options for avoiding or minimizing those costs"

"The amount that state and local governments spend on services for unauthorized immigrants represents a SMALL percentage of the total amount spent by those governments to provide such services to residents in their jurisdictions"

"The tax revenues that unauthorized immigrants generate for state and local governments do not offset the total cost of services provided to those immigrants",

and

"Federal aid programs offer resources to state and local governments that provide services to unauthorized immigrants, but those funds do not fully cover the costs incurred by those governments."

The IRS estimates that about 6 million unauthorized immigrants file individual income tax returns each year. (Think about it - they are "illegal" and file income tax returns...)

Research reviewed by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes.

Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay about $7 BILLION per year into Social Security.(Which they will never get back in the form of SS payments)

In addition, they spend billions of dollars per year, which supports the US economy and helps to create new jobs. The Texas State Comptroller reported in 2006 that the 1.4 million unauthorized immigrants in Texas added almost $18 BILLION to the gross state product, and contributed $1.58 billion in state revenue while costing the state about $1.16 billion in services used.

So, what's the next crime? I can provide reports from law enforcement around the country that the undocumented populations in their cities and countries have LOWER crime rates than citizens. The explanation seems to be they are trying to maintain a low profile so they don't get deported.

We can keep going round and round - we have been doing it since the 1930's - or we could try to find solutions that both sides can benefit from. But, then what would the Politicians use to keep us mad at each other.

Your post conflates illegal and legal immigrants...

Legal immigrants are not part of the discussion.

And yes, Illegal immigrants file tax returns. But they do so the get ridiculously large refunds. over $4 BILLION per year...

IRS tax loophole costs billions in tax credits to undocumented workers - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gwWaKkV6RM)

[JMintzer]

No, it is NOT. Jeez.

Read the law, it is NOT illegal for a person seeking asylum to cross the border and turn themselves in.

Yes, I agree not ALL undocumented aliens are seeking asylum, and yes, I agree some of the ones claiming to are just trying to game the system.

But, if a person from another country places a foot on American Soil they can turn themselves in and ask for asylum - LEGALLY.

Saying it is illegal over and over does not make it so.

Saying it's legal to cross the Rio Grande and claim asylum is legal does not make it so...

[JMintzer]

What's your criteria for illegal? Asylum seekers have a right to cross borders to seek asylum.

Have any of the illegals taken away your job as a crop picker? Maybe we can get an accurate count there, but then who would pick the crops?

According to American Natives, there are about 330 million illegals.

Asylum seekers must follow the law which states they must enter at a legal point of entry...

And you think illegals are nothing but crop pickers?

[JMintzer]

Seriously?

I offer the law. Blah blah, blah - very mature response. So, the law is important until YOU don't like it, then it becomes blah blah blah?

EDITED: I apologize. My reply to you was inappropriate. I would very much like to hear what you have to contribute!

No, you misquote the law. You continue to leave out the LEGAL point of entry requirement...

[Bucco]

Saying it's legal to cross the Rio Grande and claim asylum is legal does not make it so...

“You may apply for asylum if you are at a port of entry or in the United States. You may apply for asylum regardless of your immigration status and within one year of your arrival to the United States. extraordinary circumstances relating to your delay in filing.”

Questions and Answers: Asylum Eligibility and Applications | USCIS (https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-and-asylum/asylum/asylum-frequently-asked-questions/questions-and-answers-asylum-eligibility-and-applications)

[JMintzer]

“You may apply for asylum if you are at a port of entry or in the United States. You may apply for asylum regardless of your immigration status and within one year of your arrival to the United States. extraordinary circumstances relating to your delay in filing.”

Questions and Answers: Asylum Eligibility and Applications | USCIS (https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-and-asylum/asylum/asylum-frequently-asked-questions/questions-and-answers-asylum-eligibility-and-applications)

That says nothing about entering ILLEGALLY... Once you have done that, you've committed a crime...

[retiredguy123]

Saying it's legal to cross the Rio Grande and claim asylum is legal does not make it so...
No, but the Government enforces the law, and determines who can stay and who needs to leave. So, if the Government apprehends someone, not at a designated point of entry, gives them a court date, and releases them into the country, don't they become a "de facto" legal resident? The Government is allowing these people to enter the country and live here until they go to court. It seems to me that they are legal residents at least until the court date. Also, I believe, in some cases, they are not even given a specific court date, but just allowed to enter the country.

[Freehiker]

How about all networks post the number of illegals entering the country. Maybe a little screen in the upper right hand corner of the television screen. Much like the running total of COVID deaths, the daily COVID death count and new cases of COVID. Maybe two or three numbers, maybe the number of known illegals who have entered, an estimated total number of illegals and maybe a third number of how many tested negative for COVID?

Nope. Couldn’t care less.

[GrumpyOldMan]

That says nothing about entering ILLEGALLY... Once you have done that, you've committed a crime...

Okay, you are right.

President Trump changed the law in 2019, making it illegal to seek asylum anywhere except at a port of entry. This is where my confusion came from. Prior to that, US law conformed to iknte4rnational law adopted at the Geneva convention that all countries agreed to - including the US. And the US adopted those rules into law by Congress. That was reversed by, President Trump.

However, the law still is that if you are in the US and have been for less than a year, you can apply for asylum. Even if you got here illegally.

[Number 10 GI]

How about you post how much $$ they pay in taxes every year? I will bet you a person who works in the fields all day pays more in taxes than most elected government officials, past and present.

They can live next door to me any day.

Get off your high horse.

The only taxes they pay is social security. They know that if they claim enough exemptions there will be no federal taxes taken from their pay check. Do you really believe they file taxes at the end of the year? A lot of them are paid under the table so no taxes are paid by them other than sales tax on the products they buy.
My wife worked as the payroll manager for a large national mall maintenance/janitorial company and this is how the illegals avoided paying federal taxes. The company ran social security number checks as required by law with the feds to determine if the workers were legal. When the check came back that it was a bogus number they would claim they made a mistake and provide another bogus number. The company would then terminate employment but new illegals would apply for work and be hired and the process would repeat. Many times the same people would reapply for the job but provide a different name and another bogus social security number.

[Number 10 GI]

Here is a brief summary of the economic impacts: (It is a very complex subject with lots of opportunities to come to false conclusions.)

A review of the academic literature by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) found that "over the past few decades, most efforts to estimate the fiscal impact of immigration in the United States have concluded that, in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use."

While the overall fiscal impact on the US is beneficial, unauthorized immigrants have an adverse impact on the budgets of some state and local governments. While cautioning that the reports are not a suitable basis for developing an aggregate national effect across all states, they concluded that:

"State and local governments incur costs for providing services to unauthorized immigrants and have limited options for avoiding or minimizing those costs"

"The amount that state and local governments spend on services for unauthorized immigrants represents a SMALL percentage of the total amount spent by those governments to provide such services to residents in their jurisdictions"

"The tax revenues that unauthorized immigrants generate for state and local governments do not offset the total cost of services provided to those immigrants",

and

"Federal aid programs offer resources to state and local governments that provide services to unauthorized immigrants, but those funds do not fully cover the costs incurred by those governments."

The IRS estimates that about 6 million unauthorized immigrants file individual income tax returns each year. (Think about it - they are "illegal" and file income tax returns...)

Research reviewed by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes.

Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay about $7 BILLION per year into Social Security.(Which they will never get back in the form of SS payments)

In addition, they spend billions of dollars per year, which supports the US economy and helps to create new jobs. The Texas State Comptroller reported in 2006 that the 1.4 million unauthorized immigrants in Texas added almost $18 BILLION to the gross state product, and contributed $1.58 billion in state revenue while costing the state about $1.16 billion in services used.

So, what's the next crime? I can provide reports from law enforcement around the country that the undocumented populations in their cities and countries have LOWER crime rates than citizens. The explanation seems to be they are trying to maintain a low profile so they don't get deported.

We can keep going round and round - we have been doing it since the 1930's - or we could try to find solutions that both sides can benefit from. But, then what would the Politicians use to keep us mad at each other.

I give as much credence to the CBO as I give to the national media and politicians. Nada, zip, nothing! Pure hogwash.

[JMintzer]

No, but the Government enforces the law, and determines who can stay and who needs to leave. So, if the Government apprehends someone, not at a designated point of entry, gives them a court date, and releases them into the country, don't they become a "de facto" legal resident? The Government is allowing these people to enter the country and live here until they go to court. It seems to me that they are legal residents at least until the court date. Also, I believe, in some cases, they are not even given a specific court date, but just allowed to enter the country.

You've just described the problem... The government is not enforcing their own laws...

Still doesn't make it legal... De facto or otherwise...

[Number 10 GI]

Back in the mid and late 70's we were living in Texas. The schools were definitely affected by the rising number of illegal children entering the public school system. We received a letter from the school system saying it was having to increase the number of kids in a class because they were required by federal law to provide Spanish speaking teachers for the non English speaking children. A number of beneficial and popular programs for students were reduced or eliminated because the system didn't have the funding for them because of having to hire these teachers.

[Topspinmo]

Well, you are both right.

The law specifically allows for anyone that reaches American soil to request asylum and they are supposed to be given a court date to determine if they can stay. So, the court date is to determine if they can stay legally. But, until the court date, they are technically here "legally" applying for asylum.

The court system is completely broken and can take 2 to 3 years (or longer) to hear the case. So, the court has to option to lock them up and pay incarceration fees or let them lose (hall pass) until the case can be seen.

IF politicians wanted to solve the "illegal immigrant" problem on the border the first and obvious step would be to fix the court system so the person/people seeking asylum would have their case heard the same day or within days.

I am pretty sure we will NEVER see a solution, it is way too juicy a topic for politicians to run on for or against. So, they will never solve it, simply keep it around to help stir up the base (both sides.)

And if you think this is new, try again, in the 1930s the exact same things were going on, and "they" tried rounding them up and deporting them with disastrous results.

So let them jump line from all the legal immigrants applying which takes years. Nobody should be able to walk across border and claim what ever and be citizen next week, it take time to investigate and evaluate. Immigration system is NOT broken just law is not followed when you have millions applying and sneaking in it takes time to weed out the criminals. What hurry anyway.

[Topspinmo]

Non-citizens constitute only about 7 percent of the U.S. population. Yet the latest data from the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics reveals that non-citizens accounted for nearly two-thirds (64 percent) of all federal arrests in 2018. Just two decades earlier, only 37 percent of all federal arrests were non-citizens.

Known non-citizens. Known being the key word. Nobody know how many unknowns there are.

[Topspinmo]

There is no DISCUSSION at all.....simply calling names. If we do not begin to TALK with each other, with brain engaged, and political coups aside, there will be no solution. I had some hope a few years ago about some bi partisan legislation, but they was shelved to the loud “build the wall” chants.

To the OP.....to what end is a scrolling of “illegal” immigrants ?

We desperately need immigrants or our children conomy will suffer. Let’s. Stop chanting and begin to talk about it, with a goal of at least beginning legislation.

With 330 million plus we don’t need illegal immigration, there are enough legal immigrants applying. End of that rant.