I have a question about St. Mark's.

[Talk Host]

What a beautiful new church. :clap2:

Here's my question, starting with an comment.

When we visit our daughter in Syracuse, we usually accompany she and her family to a Catholic Church near their home for Sunday mass. What a great experience. People arrive early, visit, laugh, talk, move around the church, hug people, play with the kids, teenagers visit each other. People even come early in order to socialize. Even more fantastic is that both of the priests, regardless of which one is saying mass, also come out an visit and hug and laugh. Then minutes before mass, the priest puts on his vestments and mass begins. What a joy the mass is. The priest talks to the people during mass, invites kids up to the alter and even cracks a few jokes. Then, after mass, the priest goes out into the lobby of the church and hugs and jokes and pats the kids on the head.

We went to St. Marks Saturday evening at 4 p.m. in The Villages. Deacon Bob, who delivered the homily was very good and very personable. Aside from that, it was like a funeral mass. The, people in the nearly full church, sat poker faced as a recording droned on for 15 minutes before mass. In hushed, almost whisper tones, the recording led the congregation in some rosary type prayers. During mass, we found the priest very, very very difficult to understand. I didn't find the service to be inspiring.

I've been Catholic my entire life. My question is. Why the big difference in approaches?

Oh, and another thing, just before the closing hymn a whole bunch of people made a break for it and crashed out the doors. It sounded like a herd of Buffalo. HOW RUDE.



JLK

[jebartle]

That is what makes the world go 'round!

[Talk Host]

That is what makes the world go 'round!


If that's all it is, I'm disappointed. I would think that the Church would be want to attract new members and keep current ones.. There are lots of outside attractions that are far more fun. Going to church should be inspirational, spiritual, educational and fun.

A starter at one of the golf courses this morning said that he and his wife have stopped going, for some of the same reasons I cited above. He brought it up because he recognized my golfing buddy who use to be an usher there.

JLK

[gary42651]

Thats one reason why I am a Cardiac Catholic (don`t call a priest unless I`m on my death bed) I have been catholic all my life and as a young lad an alter boy, when I move to the villages I will be checking my options.

[ijusluvit]

Try St. Teresa's in Bellevue. And sit near the front with the 'regulars'. It's a warmer, friendlier, simpler place. There is a deep faith you can feel there. Many parishioners are needy, but the church is famous for outreach programs. It's inspiring to see how they take care of each other and their non-Catholic neighbors as well.

[chuckinca]

TH:

Do you have a review of St Tim's that you can share?


.

[jebartle]

lst experience, three collections and sermon was about MONEY....I'm sure this isn't the norm, I hope!

[Talk Host]

TH:

Do you have a review of St Tim's that you can share?


.

I haven't gone to St. Timothy, but my wife did for a time. Word is, "Get there real early."

[Talk Host]

Try St. Teresa's in Bellevue. And sit near the front with the 'regulars'

What are the "regulars?" Is that like an inner circle. Only the "regulars" have a good time at church, everyone else doesn't?

I guess it doesn't make any difference what organization it is, there is always an inner circle.

JLK

[graciegirl]

Well TH, you know there is the "institutional church" and the individual church community. Most of us were raised that it was a DUTY to go to Mass. I don't look at it like that anymore.

Only lately have some church communities become more.........sociable at Mass. That depends a lot on the pastor.

I really like the warmth, but have a lot of friends who do not.

I guess they all get you where you're goin.:icon_wink: And so does the guy who created the universe.

[bargee]

I hope you find a church that suits you.God Bless

[jannd228]

Well TH, you know there is the "institutional church" and the individual church community. Most of us were raised that it was a DUTY to go to Mass. I don't look at it like that anymore.

Only lately have some church communities become more.........sociable at Mass. That depends a lot on the pastor.

I really like the warmth, but have a lot of friends who do not.

I guess they all get you where you're goin.:icon_wink: And so does the guy who created the universe.

beautiful wisdom Gracie

[Talk Host]

I hope you find a church that suits you.God Bless


I've re-read my original post and I can't find where I said I haven't found a church that suits me. I think I said I found that visit to that church uninspiring.

I asked why the stark difference in Catholic churches. Can you offer any insight to that question?

[tpop1]

Been a practicing Catholic for a good part of my 63 years, (and I'll keep practicing til I get it right :angel:), and have never really thought of Mass as a social activity.

I have belonged to 4 different churches in the past 10 years (2 north and 2 south) and found each to be a relection of the pastor.

Tried both St. Timothys but settled in on St. Vincent de Pauls due to less crowds, good music, and closer to Bonita. The smaller crowds lend to a warmer setting.

I don't enjoy a church where there is little or no interaction with the pastor. That seems to set a tone.

Best yet was Father Joe in Sarasota, who stood outside of church before and after mass greeting eveyone with a big smile so everyone seemed to be in a good mood there....light homilys added to the comfort.

[chachacha]

i also feel most comortable at st vincent de paul because it is smaller, but alas, they, too, are soon building a larger church because there are nine full masses every weekend. i am not interested in the social aspect...we have many other outlets for that here in the villages, but quiet inspirational time, a familiar congregation, ability to actually SEE the eucharist at consecration, a dear pastor and excellent music are all part of a meaningful worship experience for me...

[SALYBOW]

I have been going to St. Vincent de Paul for awhile now. We enjoy the sermons and the music is great!! It is very upbeat. I just left a parish at home that was very sociable. I do miss that a lot, but St Vincents people are friendly also. I do find the service to be very inspiring. The medatative song which is sung after communion is truly spectacular. Everyone who hears it is moved by it. The church is little but I really like it that way.
We went once to St Timothys and had to sit behind a post and watch the mass on TV. I did not like that much. The people there were very somber also. It is a beautiful church, but I found it a bit cold. We never tried St Marks because it is so far away from us.

[ceejay]

Only lately have some church communities become more.........sociable at Mass. That depends a lot on the pastor.

...and the assistant priests.

I was, at one time, a very devout Catholic. I was involved in the Church in many ways (lector, eucharistic minister, cofirmation advisor, parish council). My favorite position was working with the teens of the parish as a CYO advisor. We started with a group of 8 teens and grew to a membership of almost 100. We sponsored dances and a lot of activities that involved the youth of the parish. They were excited about becoming an important part of the church and many went on to become lectors and ministers.

That all changed the day that Father Joe was transferred to our parish. He was a young guy (early 40's) and we really thought he would be an asset to our youth community. He became our priest moderator and we thought that he would establish some great relationships with our kids.

Well, that all changed after he attended his first CYO dance and caught a young couple kissing on the dance floor...GOD FORBID! His comment was "Don't they know they can catch diseases from that???".

That was the beginning of the end. He banned all dances and youth activities and in just a few short months, the kids lost interest and stopped coming to our meetings. We lost most of them.

Long story short...I removed myself from my parish roles because I was so upset and disappointed in the way that Church was no longer evolving. His masses were all sermons and money pleas...I couldn't even attend when he was saying Mass. He came to me one day and asked why I was no longer involved. I told him the truth, that I felt like a hypocrite when I was there during his masses, that I disliked him that much and that I resented the fact that he drove away all the kids. When he suggested that I start attending Mass at a different parish, I told him that I was there first and that when he left, I would come back to MY Church. (I could hear my mom groaning and rolling over and over in her grave when I said that!)

Anyway, we attend Fairway Christian Church. The music is great, the ministers are REAL people and the sense of community is very strong.

Thanks for listening. :sigh:

[Annabelle]

What a beautiful new church. :clap2:

Here's my question, starting with an comment.

When we visit our daughter in Syracuse, we usually accompany she and her family to a Catholic Church near their home for Sunday mass. What a great experience. People arrive early, visit, laugh, talk, move around the church, hug people, play with the kids, teenagers visit each other. People even come early in order to socialize. Even more fantastic is that both of the priests, regardless of which one is saying mass, also come out an visit and hug and laugh. Then minutes before mass, the priest puts on his vestments and mass begins. What a joy the mass is. The priest talks to the people during mass, invites kids up to the alter and even cracks a few jokes. Then, after mass, the priest goes out into the lobby of the church and hugs and jokes and pats the kids on the head.

We went to St. Marks Saturday evening at 4 p.m. in The Villages. Deacon Bob, who delivered the homily was very good and very personable. Aside from that, it was like a funeral mass. The, people in the nearly full church, sat poker faced as a recording droned on for 15 minutes before mass. In hushed, almost whisper tones, the recording led the congregation in some rosary type prayers. During mass, we found the priest very, very very difficult to understand. I didn't find the service to be inspiring.

I've been Catholic my entire life. My question is. Why the big difference in approaches?

Oh, and another thing, just before the closing hymn a whole bunch of people made a break for it and crashed out the doors. It sounded like a herd of Buffalo. HOW RUDE.



JLK

Every church I have attended since my teenage years has functioned more or less in the same manner as your daughter’s church. Only as a young child when the Mass was still said in Latin do I recall attending Mass when the atmosphere was more formal and somber.
The Church is the people and from your description one can easily see the difference in the two congregations. The Priest has his mission and so do his congregates. When both perform their responsibilities it’s makes for a great Catholic community.

Annabelle

[Annabelle]

...and the assistant priests.

I was, at one time, a very devout Catholic. I was involved in the Church in many ways (lector, eucharistic minister, cofirmation advisor, parish council). My favorite position was working with the teens of the parish as a CYO advisor. We started with a group of 8 teens and grew to a membership of almost 100. We sponsored dances and a lot of activities that involved the youth of the parish. They were excited about becoming an important part of the church and many went on to become lectors and ministers.

That all changed the day that Father Joe was transferred to our parish. He was a young guy (early 40's) and we really thought he would be an asset to our youth community. He became our priest moderator and we thought that he would establish some great relationships with our kids.

Well, that all changed after he attended his first CYO dance and caught a young couple kissing on the dance floor...GOD FORBID! His comment was "Don't they know they can catch diseases from that???".

That was the beginning of the end. He banned all dances and youth activities and in just a few short months, the kids lost interest and stopped coming to our meetings. We lost most of them.

Long story short...I removed myself from my parish roles because I was so upset and disappointed in the way that Church was no longer evolving. His masses were all sermons and money pleas...I couldn't even attend when he was saying Mass. He came to me one day and asked why I was no longer involved. I told him the truth, that I felt like a hypocrite when I was there during his masses, that I disliked him that much and that I resented the fact that he drove away all the kids. When he suggested that I start attending Mass at a different parish, I told him that I was there first and that when he left, I would come back to MY Church. (I could hear my mom groaning and rolling over and over in her grave when I said that!)

Anyway, we attend Fairway Christian Church. The music is great, the ministers are REAL people and the sense of community is very strong.

Thanks for listening. :sigh:

I can't imagine any Priest having the clout to do what the Priest in your church did. In every Catholic Church that I have belonged the children have always been a priority and I have never met a Priest that would do anything to discourage socialization within the various youth groups.
Where was the church council during all of this? One harmless "kiss" and that put an end to all youth activities? Must have been a very small and inactive church to allow this to happen.
If I were that unhappy with the Priest, I would have just changed churches.... not religions.

Annabelle

[ceejay]

I can't imagine any Priest having the clout to do what the Priest in your church did. In every Catholic Church that I have belonged the children have always been a priority and I have never met a Priest that would do anything to discourage socialization within the various youth groups.
Where was the church council during all of this? One harmless "kiss" and that put an end to all youth activities? Must have been a very small and inactive church to allow this to happen.
If I were that unhappy with the Priest, I would have just changed churches.... not religions.

Annabelle

Unfortunately, he did have the clout. We met with the Pastor and he insisted that since Fr. Joe was our new moderator and he didn't want to make any waves, we had to follow his rules. Fr. Joe wanted the kids to do more spiritual and meaningful activities. We spent an Easter at a housing project. We collected chocolates and candy from the Parish, we had supplies for coloring dozens of eggs, we bought at least a hundred baskets and filled them for the kids. Not long after we arrived, the candy and eggs were thrown all over the place and the day was a total wipeout. We also had to explain to our kids why the project kids had nicer sneakers and coats than they did (my boys included...they wore Kmart sneakers). Fr. Joe's answer was that these "poor" kids had no fathers so the mother's tended to spoil them. The kids did not buy that explanation.
As far as changing parishes, that was not going to happen. I was married in that church, my children were baptized and confirmed there, my sons were married there and my husband was buried from there. This was MY church and I was not going anywhere else.
I guess my point is, my church had the opportunity to evolve and it was taken away by an overzealous assistant priest because no one wanted to stand in his way and make any waves.
Since I believe in one God and the fact that we are all brothers and sisters, I really don't feel like I've changed religions. I've just changed the way that I worship and Fairway Christian Church is where I do it.

[K9-Lovers]

Talk Host, we had the same experience when we moved from our home in Virginia, where we enjoyed a very gregarious church that was highly social. While in Alabama for three years, and also here at St. Timothy's, we've never quite felt the same warmth and community spirit. Another poster said, and I agree, that the pastor sets the tone for the parish. And I agree, sprinting for the exit with the body and blood of Jesus yet on your tongue is outrageous. And leaving before the closing hymn is finished and beating the priest out the door is rude.

One thing I have found perplexing at St. Timothy's is that everyone does their own thing right before communion. Some are sitting, some standing, some kneeling. Why in the world doesn't the priest voice his expectations so the parishoners are doing the same thing? It doesn't matter, I guess, except that it is distracting for me at a time when full focus should be on the ceremony. Also, I wish the priest would tell people it is rude to leave early.

But, I will continue to attend there as it is very close to my home.

[rdhdleo]

I have lived in TV over 7 years, Tried St. Tims when I first moved here and felt it was clickish and like mist Diocesan parishes talked money too often. I never went back. When St. Marks was being built I was delighted as I am close to it. The first Pastor Fr. Sebastian was awesome, then he left and his assistant took his place Fr. Simon. Also a terrific priest. He worked tirelessly to get the new church built then his superiors sent him to a small church in need in NY just before our grand opening. This really upset alot of the parishoners and I don't think many have been happy since. But such is the life of a priest and these are not Diocesan they are Pauline Monks out of Pa. which I now prefer so much more down to earth. Most out of that monistary are from Poland hence the language issue but all very nice. Deacon Bob came from St. Tims and is super Deacon John is new. Anyway I will stick with St. Marks and hope many will heal in time from Fr. Simons being sent away.

[Pocadot55]

I am a member of St. Timothy's but I think I can shed some light on your recent visit to St. Mark's. The diocese has been trying for a few months now to enrol parishioners in a fund raising effort called Alive in Christ. Many have not attended the informational meetings and have not picked up the supplied packets. The video was probably the bishop informing the congregation. At St. Timothy's last Sunday the Mass was shortened so that the priest could have a meeting with those who have not responded to pledging their financial help to this effort. This, of course, is not the normal. I was not there but I would guess that was what was occurring. At St. Timothy's there is a coffee-donut sort of social after Mass in the church hall. I don't attend it but I see it offered in the Sunday bulletin. I'm sure God was pleased that you were there anyway, but you already know that. Not that you care, but I am pleased as well.

[ijusluvit]

I am a member of St. Timothy's but I think I can shed some light on your recent visit to St. Mark's. The diocese has been trying for a few months now to enrol parishioners in a fund raising effort called Alive in Christ. Many have not attended the informational meetings and have not picked up the supplied packets. The video was probably the bishop informing the congregation. At St. Timothy's last Sunday the Mass was shortened so that the priest could have a meeting with those who have not responded to pledging their financial help to this effort. This, of course, is not the normal. I was not there but I would guess that was what was occurring. At St. Timothy's there is a coffee-donut sort of social after Mass in the church hall. I don't attend it but I see it offered in the Sunday bulletin. I'm sure God was pleased that you were there anyway, but you already know that. Not that you care, but I am pleased as well.

Shortened the Mass to meet with those who have not responded? !!!!!!
What a shame. If this really happened instead of quietly organizing a campaign of volunteers to make personal contact and invitations to contribute, I think it is a great example of well educated, perhaps even saintly church leaders still being human, and therefore capable of making dumb mistakes. We always hope and pray that our clergy are super humans, but alas...

[K9-Lovers]

I wondered why the Mass was only a half hour long last Sunday! They were still passing the collection baskets when Father was preparing the Eucharist.

[redwitch]

Went to St. Tim's once because a dear friend made it clear it was really important to her. This was shortly before the last Presidential election. I have NEVER walked out of a service in my life. I did that day. The pastor actually told the congregation to not vote Democratic because the Dems were pro-abortion. Sorry, how I vote is not the business of the Church.

I had basically walked away from organized religion many years ago. I am and always will be deeply spiritual but not in a church setting. It is things like my experience at St. Tim's that will keep me away. And the fact that it seems there is a request for money every five minutes.

[another Linda]

... When we visit our daughter in Syracuse, we usually accompany she and her family to a Catholic Church near their home for Sunday mass. What a great experience. ...
I wish I could say that was typical for all RC churches in Syracuse. Ours used to be but got closed (many used to be but got closed.) Personally I'm still feeling homeless. Between that and what my kids have gone through regarding weddings, baptisms, birth control, you-name-it, I'm finding it rather hard to be Catholic these days. I still attend Mass on Sundays although I've stopped going to daily Mass. Sigh.

[LuvItHere]

I wish I could say that was typical for all RC churches in Syracuse. Ours used to be but got closed (many used to be but got closed.) Personally I'm still feeling homeless. Between that and what my kids have gone through regarding weddings, baptisms, birth control, you-name-it, I'm finding it rather hard to be Catholic these days. I still attend Mass on Sundays although I've stopped going to daily Mass. Sigh.

Many of us know the starvation diet all too well--sour amateur music; tomb-like atmosphere; territorial parishioners who fear newcomers want to usurp their power base...oops...ministry; people going thru the motions, walking mechanically up to communion like robots at a funeral; barely-breathing, unhappy priests who teach nothing understandable nor applicable about the Gospel just read, but always manage to work Notre Dame football into the mumbling somewhere as they put you to sleep . . .

But we were pleasantly surprised and refreshed when we tried an alive and growing non-denominational church like Fairway Christian here (there are many like this).

Soaring music with everyone singing their hearts out praising the Lord, and meaningful, relevant teaching of Scripture that can be applied in real life as soon as you walk out, is a worship format that does not fail to keep us wishing every Sunday would come sooner. Don't give up . . God is waiting with open arms for all who search to know Him and to be with Him forever.

[algi45]

Not only that, but the collections continued during the consecration of the host, the most solemn moment of the mass. I have never lived in a diocese where the fund raising is so continuous and unrelenting.

[Hancle704]

Maybe if you consider the fact that when TV started there were no Catholic Churches. Orginal Villagers had to drive to Leesburg or Belleview to attend Mass.

Both St Tim's and St. Mark's were built after folks started moving here in great numbers. It was the contributions of those who came here first who provided the funds to build those Churches and who became the Community of Catholics here in TV.

While they have closed Churches up north they are still being built in retirement areas and the needs of others outside of TV are what are being addressed in current fund raising programs

Instead of being critical of the fund raising, it might be more appropriate to be thankful for those who were here first and now accept the challenge of becoming a part of the Community and to share what you have been blessed with. The Buildings are not The Church, it is the members of the Community who give of their time, talent and treasure.

[BaylorBear]

QUOTE=Hancle704;308981]Maybe if you consider the fact that when TV started there were no Catholic Churches. Orginal Villagers had to drive to Leesburg or Belleview to attend Mass.

Both St Tim's and St. Mark's were built after folks started moving here in great numbers. It was the contributions of those who came here first who provided the funds to build those Churches and who became the Community of Catholics here in TV.

While they have closed Churches up north they are still being built in retirement areas and the needs of others outside of TV are what are being addressed in current fund raising programs

Instead of being critical of the fund raising, it might be more appropriate to be thankful for those who were here first and now accept the challenge of becoming a part of the Community and to share what you have been blessed with. The Buildings are not The Church, it is the members of the Community who give of their time, talent and treasure.[/QUOTE]

:BigApplause::agree:

[K9-Lovers]

Not only that, but the collections continued during the consecration of the host, the most solemn moment of the mass. I have never lived in a diocese where the fund raising is so continuous and unrelenting.

If I can speak for those of us who are upset about the collections/fund raising . . .

It's true that without donations, there would be no churches and we are blessed in that regard.

Our complaint is not about the act of fund raising, but the timing of the collections.

The preparation of the eucharist, and the consecration of the host is the holiest part of the mass and should be a very solemn time. It's not the time for ushers to be moving up and down aisles and parishoners' prayer and worship being interupted.

If the priest would simply wait until the collection was finished before proceeding, we would not feel the intent of the mass was violated. Soft music could be played, or hymns could be sung until the collection was finished. THEN move on to the most holy part of the mass.

[chachacha]

i know the offertory is an age old tradition but i have decided to give my donation by credit card at the beginning of each year...i do not need envelopes printed, the church gets my donation whether i am away or not, and i do not have to fumble in my purse while i am trying to be absorbed in the mass...plus i get frequent flyer miles :) the church could save a lot of printing of envelopes and leave a donation basket near the altar for those who are visiting temporarily, if this method was encouraged for most parishioners...and fewer interruptions, money counters, etc...i think we could get used to this method eventually if everyone would give generously...

[Hancle704]

May be convenient, but your church is paying a fee for your credit card transaction, and you get mileage? Kinda puts a different spin on donating.

[dominick]

Wow!!!! I guess that I’m really an “old school” Catholic.
I was taught, and still believe, that attending Mass is all about worship, and that everything else is secondary. To me, it’s not about being entertained, inspired, or feeling good about myself or others, but an opportunity to give glory and praise to our Creator.
Please don’t take me for being “holier than thou”, prudish, or whatever, but I really get offended by pre-Mass chatter, laughing and socializing. I regard that time as an opportunity for prayer and quiet reflection; a time to spiritually prepare for the celebration to come. I find it distracting when I hear the folks in back of me talking about football. Please, take it outside. Why are you here???
In my former parish, even today, “disrespectful” behavior in church would receive a loud “Ssshhhhhhhhhhhhsh!!!”
I attend St. Vincent’s and have noticed no really offensive behavior. Just a couple of minor observations:
Before the 9:45 service, one of the choir members performs a solo, after which she receives a hearty round of applause. Come on—what is this, a talent show????
The visiting priest reads his homily from an obviously mass produced flyer, often stumbling even while reading---- zero preparation. The deacons are often more coherent and meaningful in their sermons.
And oh yes, someone on here mentioned communicants marching “robotlike” to the communion rail. Well, what should we do, twist and shimmy our way up there???

[kwachowski]

When we first joined St. Marks a few years ago, there was a different Pastor and Associate. It was a wonderful experience going to church. Then before the new church was even finished we got two new priests. The Associate is very nice and seems to be a little more fun. The new pastor seems very stuffy and always reads his homilies. No closeness at this church anymore. We are going to try St. Tims again.

[Hancle704]

If you want a better Priest, pray for the ones we have.

[Hancle704]

Wow!!!! I guess that I’m really an “old school” Catholic.
I was taught, and still believe, that attending Mass is all about worship, and that everything else is secondary. To me, it’s not about being entertained, inspired, or feeling good about myself or others, but an opportunity to give glory and praise to our Creator.
Please don’t take me for being “holier than thou”, prudish, or whatever, but I really get offended by pre-Mass chatter, laughing and socializing. I regard that time as an opportunity for prayer and quiet reflection; a time to spiritually prepare for the celebration to come. I find it distracting when I hear the folks in back of me talking about football. Please, take it outside. Why are you here???
In my former parish, even today, “disrespectful” behavior in church would receive a loud “Ssshhhhhhhhhhhhsh!!!”
I attend St. Vincent’s and have noticed no really offensive behavior. Just a couple of minor observations:
Before the 9:45 service, one of the choir members performs a solo, after which she receives a hearty round of applause. Come on—what is this, a talent show????
The visiting priest reads his homily from an obviously mass produced flyer, often stumbling even while reading---- zero preparation. The deacons are often more coherent and meaningful in their sermons.
And oh yes, someone on here mentioned communicants marching “robotlike” to the communion rail. Well, what should we do, twist and shimmy our way up there???

:BigApplause:
Let me hear a loud AMEN

[SALYBOW]

I attend St Vincents and love the music, the smallness of the church and the serons are usually pretty good. But the different thing is that all the people are singing. St Thomas said "He who sings prays twice." I agree.:sing: