No more Adidas for me

[OhioBuckeye]

DMintzer, China, Indonesia & Vietnam make Nike shoes, China is the leading manufacturer. China manufactures 36% of the total world wide. Indonesia & Vietnam do the rest. I never saw the U.S. even mentioned. I did my homework!

[OhioBuckeye]

Love your comment, I love the way you put it, LOL!

[asianthree]

More importantly those who are so against, what would you do if your
CHILDREN or GRANDCHILDREN decided to make this life changing Decision.

Would you cope, would you still love them, would you walk away and never have anything to do with them?

[fdpaq0580]

Thank you, but don’t believe it!

What is "it"?

[golfing eagles]

All you experts in a man is a man and a woman is a woman... What is a person with XXY chromosomes? What is a person with XO? What is a person with XYY? What is a person with ovotestes? What is a person who has cliteromegaly that mimics in all respects a small phallus? What is a person whose brain tells them beyond any shadow of a doubt they are a woman? You experts are so certain in your ignorance and intolerance. The genders are not as simple as you wish or your church may have taught you. It is very complex and the exceptions to your wrongheaded wisdom prove the fallacy of your beliefs.

Of course you would support forcing teachers not to teach the truth about gender identity because telling children the truth would threaten your so tightly held beliefs. There is every color of the rainbow in human expression and experience of sexuality and gender.

And any corporation that understands how the emerging picture of the complexity of gender must be boycotted. Cancel culture I believe is the term the thought police use on TV

Well, I'm sure you already know the answers to your own questions----XXY is a Kleinfelter male, XO is Turner's syndrome and XYY is Jacob's syndrome. The rest of your list is developmental in utero, not chromosomal except "What is a person whose brain tells them beyond any shadow of a doubt they are a woman? ", to which you would not like my answer.

That being said I agree with you, why should anyone care which demographic a company chooses to target market? I have much more tolerance for a company that is trying to sell their product than one that is spending shareholder money to foray into politics to overturn or block laws (eg: Disney)

[fdpaq0580]

Throwing away perfectly good items that you bought doesn't accomplish anything. Refusing to purchase new items does. Wearing items that I bought from a company doesn't mean I support their ideals. But not buying new items is what will hurt them the most except selling their stock, if you happen to own some. At this point I don't think these woke corporations understand or care about how getting involved in political agendas that can affect sales. It is best for most businesses to remain neutral. I wouldn't go to Nike as a source of morality or politics.

Every time you wear something with a logo you are a poster board advertising, endorsing that product and company. I don't usually buy clothing with logos since I am not getting paid for advertising/endorsements. Each of us protests in our own way. Do what you think feel right for you.

[fdpaq0580]

Your good with China’s morals? Asking for a friend.

Not sure who you are asking, but tell your friend that my friend is good with the Chinese people, but definitely not good with the Chinese government.
😃 Tell your friend I said "Hello".

[JMintzer]

What a low life response. There is no room here for your politics.

It would help if you quoted the person you're insulting... That way we'd know whom it is...

[JMintzer]

Years ago I bought my sneakers at Pay- Less for $8.99, no name on them and still have them.I will never buy a product from China, or other Big name brand companies, depending on if they differ from my morals or political views.

Where were those $8.99 PayLess shoes made?

[JMintzer]

So what do you do when you find out that Sally, that nice Lady across the pickleball net from you is really Salvatore.

Call out the score and server and play on...

What answer are you looking for?

[jimjamuser]

Pretty sure that I have influenced a bunch of smart people to stop buying Adidas
Pretty sure that the Ad Executives of Adidas and Nike are most concerned about the segment of the population that is young and drives FASHION. They could care less about a few grumpy old men in my age range that are fossilized cavemen with 1950s attitudes. The era where baby boomers controlled consumerism has come and gone. Boomers are from a historic time that ONCE controlled FASHION, but not now!

[JMintzer]

I haven't seen all the posts but I don't believe anyone has mentioned Renee Richards aka Richard Raskin a transgender women who played and coached professional tennis. She famously sued to play in U.S.Open.

Like the Bobby Riggs/Billie Jean King match, Renee Richards was a novelty act.

An older, slightly above average country club men's player who did nothing on the women's tour...

[JMintzer]

How about if your daughter/granddaughter loses out on a rowing scholarship to Laurie Laughlin's daughter? Or loses a gymnastics scholarship to the girlfriend of a football recruit? The point is that a talented athlete will have other choices for scholarships.

Which actually ISN'T the point, but whatever...

[JMintzer]

DMintzer, China, Indonesia & Vietnam make Nike shoes, China is the leading manufacturer. China manufactures 36% of the total world wide. Indonesia & Vietnam do the rest. I never saw the U.S. even mentioned. I did my homework!

Why is my name in your quote?

[RayMan]

So what do you do when you find out that Sally, that nice Lady across the pickleball net from you is really Salvatore.
You embrace her, show her respect...and enjoy your game. That simple!

[JMintzer]

You embrace her, show her respect...and enjoy your game. That simple!

EWWW! Everyone is all sweaty when playing pickle ball...

https://j.gifs.com/D9qqpy@facebook.gif

[jimjamuser]

Bobby Riggs, in his prime, was a very good tennis player. I believe he was ranked number 1 in the world at one point and won several grand slam events. He played, and lost to, Billie Jean King when he was in his mid 50s and she was in her prime. If he was a transgender woman in his prime he would have dominated women's tennis. He was a showman who had a big mouth.
Bobby Riggs was a great self-promoter, he did NOT need a PR firm to keep his name alive. He was like Mohammed Ali in that respect. Riggs challenging (and beating) Margaret Court was a stroke of genius and set up the match with Billy Jean King. Riggs put both tennis and women's equal rights in a giant spotlight - it was like a heavyweight championship fight. Lots of mental pressure on both King and Riggs. The match had huge Television Ratings and far-reaching effects on the future of women's sports and equality.

[jimjamuser]

It is normal to feel uncomfortable and distrustful of things that are different. I have worked along side gay, lesbian, and found them friendly and capable as anyone. Some, in the beginning, may seem standoffish or unsure until they know how you are doing to treat them. Normal behavior in a new environment. This is my experience so far.
Straight or gay, I don't care. "Transgender", I don't care. I guess my feeling is that you can say what you would like to be, act the way you want to, but, sometimes you can't actually be what you would like to be. Your DNA is the determining factor of your physical gender. You can't change that. Surgery, hormones and drugs won't change your gender. The best you can do is mimic the other gender. A supposedly "transgender woman" is a actually an altered man, and not actually, genetically a woman. Transgender in humans is a lie.
And probably the "mental illness" part comes about when so many people are telling them that they are "living a lie" - and eventually, they begin to believe it. It seems like an alienating or even "shunning" experience. I think back to the Early American days when OUTLIER women were burned at the stake for being somehow(?) different. I wonder if an equal number of men were burned at the stake?

[Stu from NYC]

You embrace her, show her respect...and enjoy your game. That simple!

I do not want to embrace her or him or anyone all sweaty.

[fdpaq0580]

More importantly those who are so against, what would you do if your
CHILDREN or GRANDCHILDREN decided to make this life changing Decision.

Would you cope, would you still love them, would you walk away and never have anything to do with them?

If I were fortunate enough to have children or grand children, I would love him or her the same as I loved her or him. My approval of their choices is not required for my love. That's just the way I am.

[Two Bills]

Why is my name in your quote?

Because you are a sweatshop owner, and make Nike shoes with all those other countries!!:ohdear:

[JSR22]

If I were fortunate enough to have children or grand children, I would love him or her the same as I loved her or him. My approval of their choices is not required for my love. That's just the way I am.

I completely agree. I wish more people felt the way we do.

[Stu from NYC]

Because you are a sweatshop owner, and make Nike shoes with all those other countries!!:ohdear:

Sorry now have my wife making my sneakers and all of our friends. She works hard but if we leave the A/C on is she working in a sweatshop? Asking for a friend.

[fdpaq0580]

How about if your daughter/granddaughter loses out on a rowing scholarship to Laurie Laughlin's daughter? Or loses a gymnastics scholarship to the girlfriend of a football recruit? The point is that a talented athlete will have other choices for scholarships.

Maybe! Maybe not! Point is, letting athletes ( surgically altered or simply identifying as) compete as other than their genetic code stipulates, is throwing in a ringer. It is wrong.

[jimjamuser]

In Sweden, MOST (not all) people pay only local tax which ranges between 29.08 and 35.15 per cent depending on municipality, on their annual income. In addition earners above a certain income threshold set by the Tax Agency also pay 20 per cent state tax.

The Swedish tax system includes a so-called basic deduction, a sum that is exempt from the taxable income. The sum differs depending on whether a person is under or over 65, see link above.

So, if you make less than the basic deduction you pay no taxes, sort of like here.

And for the VAT, the standard VAT rate for goods and services in Sweden is 25 per cent, but there are reduced rates of 12 per cent for foodstuffs and 6 percent for books, newspapers, passenger transport within Sweden.

So, lets take the high road, and say citizens in Sweden pay 55% (35% local and 20% state). On top some pay as much as 25% VAT. Kind of a "sales" tax which is sort of like sales tax here. Which runs depending on state between 8% and 12%(?) not sure.

Now, Federal tax rate goes from 0% to 35%, state tax rates vary, CA is highest at 12%, then 9000 local jurisdictions have local income tax up to 3%. So, add those up and your get 50% income tax max for US Citizens. (Let's not quibble over the 40,000 pages of Federal tax code and all the possible infinite variety of marginal rates).

Two things pop out in Sweden you pay more VATG than we pay in sales tax. Agreed.

Second using the highest rates, in the US and Sweden, in Sweden you would pay 55% income tax, and in the US you pay 50%. For that 5% you get Universal healthcare - well, not just you EVERYONE. You (everyone) also gets unemployment compensation, which benefit consists of two parts: a basic unemployment insurance and a voluntary income related benefit. If you retire you are covered by their state run pension plan, which unlike private pension plans in the US which trend to go bankrupt leaving workers holding the bag.

Anyway it goes on and on. The bottom line, Sweden pays MORE taxes, but if you include Heath Insurance in the US, we actually pay a LOT more than they do. And it covers everyone, not like here with 30 million Americans uninsured for healthcare, and vastly more under insured because of massive deductibles and not covered issues. And let's not go into how much better their healthcare outcomes are.

I am not sure what you point of bring up Sweden, but they are far better off than US citizen both in what they pay, and what they get for what they pay.

At least that is my humble opinion.
That was an impressive analysis of Sweden's tax system and hints at the country's philosophy. I know that Sweden beats the US in qualities like UPWARD MOBILITY. The Nordic countries place in the top 5 or 10 of all countries for various qualities of life. The US places below 20th and often below 30th in world lists. (do NOT just believe me, but check for yourself) The US was the top country in the world after WW2. But, due to various causes, has dropped steadily thereafter! Personally, my favorite issues for problems are unrestrained population growth and lack of nationalized health care........but, there are many othet problems.
.........Blaming shoe advertizers and a tiny % of the population like GENDER FLUID people, seems, to me, to be a "blame game" type distraction that allows people to MISS the real cause of their problems (besides aging).

[amexsbow]

All you experts in a man is a man and a woman is a woman... What is a person with XXY chromosomes? What is a person with XO? What is a person with XYY? What is a person with ovotestes? What is a person who has cliteromegaly that mimics in all respects a small phallus? What is a person whose brain tells them beyond any shadow of a doubt they are a woman? You experts are so certain in your ignorance and intolerance. The genders are not as simple as you wish or your church may have taught you. It is very complex and the exceptions to your wrongheaded wisdom prove the fallacy of your beliefs.

Of course you would support forcing teachers not to teach the truth about gender identity because telling children the truth would threaten your so tightly held beliefs. There is every color of the rainbow in human expression and experience of sexuality and gender.

And any corporation that understands how the emerging picture of the complexity of gender must be boycotted. Cancel culture I believe is the term the thought police use on TV

In response to the burning question: What is a woman? As defined by science, a man (male) has an XY chromosome. A woman (female) has an XX chromosome.
Due to genetic ABNORMALITIES some mammal are born with variants, XXY, XYY.
These are again abnormalities, just like cows with two heads, and other deformities:boom:.

That was easy.

[golfing eagles]

That was an impressive analysis of Sweden's tax system and hints at the country's philosophy. I know that Sweden beats the US in qualities like UPWARD MOBILITY. The Nordic countries place in the top 5 or 10 of all countries for various qualities of life. The US places below 20th and often below 30th in world lists. (do NOT just believe me, but check for yourself) The US was the top country in the world after WW2. But, due to various causes, has dropped steadily thereafter! Personally, my favorite issues for problems are unrestrained population growth and lack of nationalized health care........but, there are many othet problems.
.........Blaming shoe advertizers and a tiny % of the population like GENDER FLUID people, seems, to me, to be a "blame game" type distraction that allows people to MISS the real cause of their problems (besides aging).

GENDER FLUID????? I can't find the fill tube. Is that located between the power brake and automatic transmission fluids???? And since pink and blue are already taken, as is green for antifreeze, what color is "gender fluid"?:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[fdpaq0580]

GENDER FLUID????? I can't find the fill tube. Is that located between the power brake and automatic transmission fluids???? And since pink and blue are already taken, as is green for antifreeze, what color is "gender fluid"?:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Where the fill tube is located depends on what type of trans you've got. 😏

[fdpaq0580]

Sorry now have my wife making my sneakers and all of our friends. She works hard but if we leave the A/C on is she working in a sweatshop? Asking for a friend.

Tell your friend that my friend ( yes, I have one ) says, " No sweat, No sweatshop. "

[jimjamuser]

I have a daughter who had a D1 volleyball full ride. I wondered how this issue would/could potentially affect her. So, I went looking for statistics. I have found a lot of opinion, but very few facts.

Here are a few facts. Multiple sources agree that .6% to .7% of American adults identify as transgender. This is fewer than 2 million American adults. Not that many.

Another fact: only 7% of high school athletes play a varsity sport in college. Less than 2% will play at D1 schools. Scholarship Stats.com states that it's 55:1 for men and 57:1 for women who play D1 after high school.

Looking at the factual statistics, very few trans individuals would make it to the D1 level.

This is a small number, and the very elite numbers are even smaller.

Lia, the trans swimmer, started a fire storm. I also saw a story about Chelsea Mitchell, a Connecticut high school runner.

Having watched volleyball for years and observing the differences between men and women and how they play, I know the physical advantage that men who have gone through puberty have over women in the sport.

What I did not know was what happens when a man transitions. What do the drugs do to him? How many years does one have to be on them in order to compete as a woman? Who makes these decisions? I wanted specifics: What does lack of testosterone do as far as strength, jumping ability, times, etc.?

I don't know because I could not find the statistics. There is a severe lack of information on these issues. How do we know what is fair when there is nothing but feelings and emotions to make a decision?

Lia won the national title, but Katie Ledecky still holds the world record. Mitchell lost to two trans girls in 2021, but beat both of them in 2020. Do these facts make a difference?

Title IX did so much for women. The argument now is that transgender women will ruin it for women such as my daughter. Maybe it will. Maybe it won't. Until hard evidence is available, opinions will prevail.
Good post, thanks.

[jimjamuser]

You embrace her, show her respect...and enjoy your game. That simple!
if God chooses to make GENDER FLUID individuals, maybe it is our job to respect that decision.

[jimjamuser]

GENDER FLUID????? I can't find the fill tube. Is that located between the power brake and automatic transmission fluids???? And since pink and blue are already taken, as is green for antifreeze, what color is "gender fluid"?:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:
Why. it is Rainbow Colors. of course. What else could Gender Fluid be?

[amexsbow]

In Sweden, MOST (not all) people pay only local tax which ranges between 29.08 and 35.15 per cent depending on municipality, on their annual income. In addition earners above a certain income threshold set by the Tax Agency also pay 20 per cent state tax.

The Swedish tax system includes a so-called basic deduction, a sum that is exempt from the taxable income. The sum differs depending on whether a person is under or over 65, see link above.

So, if you make less than the basic deduction you pay no taxes, sort of like here.

And for the VAT, the standard VAT rate for goods and services in Sweden is 25 per cent, but there are reduced rates of 12 per cent for foodstuffs and 6 percent for books, newspapers, passenger transport within Sweden.

So, lets take the high road, and say citizens in Sweden pay 55% (35% local and 20% state). On top some pay as much as 25% VAT. Kind of a "sales" tax which is sort of like sales tax here. Which runs depending on state between 8% and 12%(?) not sure.

Now, Federal tax rate goes from 0% to 35%, state tax rates vary, CA is highest at 12%, then 9000 local jurisdictions have local income tax up to 3%. So, add those up and your get 50% income tax max for US Citizens. (Let's not quibble over the 40,000 pages of Federal tax code and all the possible infinite variety of marginal rates).

Two things pop out in Sweden you pay more VATG than we pay in sales tax. Agreed.

Second using the highest rates, in the US and Sweden, in Sweden you would pay 55% income tax, and in the US you pay 50%. For that 5% you get Universal healthcare - well, not just you EVERYONE. You (everyone) also gets unemployment compensation, which benefit consists of two parts: a basic unemployment insurance and a voluntary income related benefit. If you retire you are covered by their state run pension plan, which unlike private pension plans in the US which trend to go bankrupt leaving workers holding the bag.

Anyway it goes on and on. The bottom line, Sweden pays MORE taxes, but if you include Heath Insurance in the US, we actually pay a LOT more than they do. And it covers everyone, not like here with 30 million Americans uninsured for healthcare, and vastly more under insured because of massive deductibles and not covered issues. And let's not go into how much better their healthcare outcomes are.

I am not sure what you point of bring up Sweden, but they are far better off than US citizen both in what they pay, and what they get for what they pay.

At least that is my humble opinion.

Here we go with the Sweden paradise argument.
Let's look at the Whole picture. Recent articles:
...But Swedes are frustrated over their universal health care, one of the main pillars of their cherished welfare state, with long waiting queues due to a shortage of nurses and available doctors in some areas...
...ASIA Nader did not know whether to worry more about being diagnosed with a hole in her heart at the age of 21, or having to wait a year for Swedish doctors to fix it...

The population of Sweden is about the same as North Carolina. It looks like an apples to oranges comparison.

As my statistics professor told the class, tell me what you want to prove and I will get you the statistics to prove it.

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. But if we look about the U.S. we can see the disparity in state governments and even counties within states based on differences in governance and population demographics.

These arguments and comparisons are ridiculous, stop complaining. There are many other things happening in this world which will affect you more.
Enjoy your move to Sweden. :welcome:

[photo1902]

I DO NOT go into public bathrooms unless it’s a single stall and I can lock the doors; it’s one less place where I don’t have to deal with them.

Are you looking?

So you're afraid to go potty?

Who is "them" that's coming after you, sport?

[Topspinmo]

Give it up, not going to make difference. Life for old people to short to sweat small stuff….

[kkingston57]

Does Converse still make high tops?

Do not know, but they still make and sell Chuck Taylor basketball sneakers.

[fdpaq0580]

In Sweden, .

SWEDEN??? Ewwww!! They eat LUTEFISK!!! Ewwww!!!

😱😨😖😤😬😬

Just .... Ewwww!!

[rsimpson]

Well first it was Nike. Threw away or gave to charity all all my Nike stuff including a golf bag and would never buy anything with a swoosh on it again. Now Adidas is running a commercial pushing transgender women in sports.
Pretty soon I will be barefoot


Buy NEW BALANCE - American Made - solid compnay!!

[Stu from NYC]

Tell your friend that my friend ( yes, I have one ) says, " No sweat, No sweatshop. "

In that case we must get her to work harder finding more customers.

[Stu from NYC]

SWEDEN??? Ewwww!! They eat LUTEFISK!!! Ewwww!!!

😱😨😖😤😬😬

Just .... Ewwww!!

Have you ever had it with spicy brown mustard? Try it and you will start a new thread asking where you can find it locally.

[MartinSE]

Maybe! Maybe not! Point is, letting athletes ( surgically altered or simply identifying as) compete as other than their genetic code stipulates, is throwing in a ringer. It is wrong.

I don't think it is "wrong", maybe not fair would be better choice. I have suggest that sports, especially professional sports, should have multiple classes, like drag racing (no pun intended) Pure stock, modified, and super modified.

[fdpaq0580]

I don't think it is "wrong", maybe not fair would be better choice. I have suggest that sports, especially professional sports, should have multiple classes, like drag racing (no pun intended) Pure stock, modified, and super modified.

Not really familiar with drag racing in today's world, but I will try to get my point across. Imagine putting a super mod under a stock body and racing for pinks against pure stock. Catch my drift? It is not fair. It is unethical. It is wrong and should not be condoned, in my most humble opinion.

[JMintzer]

Because you are a sweatshop owner, and make Nike shoes with all those other countries!!:ohdear:

Ah! Forgot about that side hustle...

[JMintzer]

That was an impressive analysis of Sweden's tax system and hints at the country's philosophy. I know that Sweden beats the US in qualities like UPWARD MOBILITY. The Nordic countries place in the top 5 or 10 of all countries for various qualities of life. The US places below 20th and often below 30th in world lists. (do NOT just believe me, but check for yourself) The US was the top country in the world after WW2. But, due to various causes, has dropped steadily thereafter! Personally, my favorite issues for problems are unrestrained population growth and lack of nationalized health care........but, there are many othet problems.
.........Blaming shoe advertizers and a tiny % of the population like GENDER FLUID people, seems, to me, to be a "blame game" type distraction that allows people to MISS the real cause of their problems (besides aging).

They also lead the world in the usage of antidepressants...

Maybe that's why they're so "happy"...

The World's Biggest Consumers Of Antidepressants (https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2015/11/16/the-worlds-biggest-consumers-of-antidepressants/?sh=7728c1006c06)

[JMintzer]

GENDER FLUID????? I can't find the fill tube. Is that located between the power brake and automatic transmission fluids???? And since pink and blue are already taken, as is green for antifreeze, what color is "gender fluid"?:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

It's just like "blinker fluid"...

[JMintzer]

Buy NEW BALANCE - American Made - solid compnay!!

The official "Old Man" shoe of TV...

https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/691d85d0-c588-416b-b200-4313999f1741_1.ece8e744517537e45f11f9c7f669ea3d.jp eg

[Keefelane66]

Where Is New Balance Made?

Most New Balance products are Made in Asia, including China, Indonesia, Vietnam, Thailand, and Cambodia. The American brand is also manufactured in the USA and the UK.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Point made, I agree. I also say, the same could be said for Intersex people and others.

Whaat about Trisomy women, women with three Chromosomes? There are around 0.1% in the general population - that would be about 150,000 in the general population. Hmm. wonder what they are, since I have been told in this forum under no uncertain terms, that men have 2 and women have two. So, those 150,000 "people" (maybe not people?) are something else?

There is another case called Triploidy with 3 sets of Chromosomes which affects arounds 2% of all pregnancies but it is almost always fatal - the baby/fetus seldom survives. What do we put on their death/birth certificates? Male, female? I guess those fetuses just DECIDED to have 3...

It seems so easy to define "woman" today.

A woman is someone with a uterus. Except for women who have had hysterectomies. A woman is someone who can produce milk. Except - men can produce milk too (look it up - they absolutely can, just not to the same extent as women). Also except for women who have had mastectomies. A woman is someone who can give birth. Except those who can't.

It still begs the question: what to "do" about it? I mean I totally get the basketball leagues situation. A man who transitions to a woman, could possibly be a foot taller than the tallest woman in the league. It can certainly be an advantage. But is it enough of an advantage that the league should actually care about it? I'm not convinced it is. But I believe it's a valid question that deserves an answer, for anyone who actually gives a crap about professional basketball.

I don't care about competitive sports at all. None of them. So I have no horse in this race. (I do like riding horses. I just don't race them because - I don't care about competitive sports.)

[fdpaq0580]

A woman is someone with a uterus. Except for women who have had hysterectomies. A woman is someone who can produce milk. Except - men can produce milk too (look it up - they absolutely can, just not to the same extent as women). Also except for women who have had mastectomies. A woman is someone who can give birth. Except those who can't.

It still begs the question: what to "do" about it? I mean I totally get the basketball leagues situation. A man who transitions to a woman, could possibly be a foot taller than the tallest woman in the league. It can certainly be an advantage. But is it enough of an advantage that the league should actually care about it? I'm not convinced it is. But I believe it's a valid question that deserves an answer, for anyone who actually gives a crap about professional basketball.

I don't care about competitive sports at all. None of them. So I have no horse in this race. (I do like riding horses. I just don't race them because - I don't care about competitive sports.)

Abnormalities aside, here is the simplified answer. An x chromosome is female, xx is a woman. Y chromosome is the male. Presence of a y is a man. On average men are biger, stronger, faster then women. A so-called transgender woman is not a woman if the y chromosome is present.
Surgical alteration is artificial enhancement to give the physical appearance of what one wishes to look like, but it does not alter ones genetic code.
You may not care about competition in sports, but all of life is competitive. Sports, education, business science, health, politics, everything. Sports ia just the visable tip of the iceberg. If truth, real fairness, honesty fails here due to agenda driven PC, it will fail everywhere. Not everyone deserves respect. Truth deserves respect. Honesty deserves respect. And fairness deserves respect.

[BlackhawksFan]

Like the Bobby Riggs/Billie Jean King match, Renee Richards was a novelty act.

An older, slightly above average country club men's player who did nothing on the women's tour...

She got to a #20 international ranking and played in the U.S. Open getting to the mixed doubles final once and the semi final another time.

She then went into coach Martina Navrotolva.

She's certainly not a novelty act nor a footnote in women's professional tennis.

[jimbomaybe]

Abnormalities aside, here is the simplified answer. An x chromosome is female, xx is a woman. Y chromosome is the male. Presence of a y is a man. On average men are biger, stronger, faster then women. A so-called transgender woman is not a woman if the y chromosome is present.
Surgical alteration is artificial enhancement to give the physical appearance of what one wishes to look like, but it does not alter ones genetic code.
You may not care about competition in sports, but all of life is competitive. Sports, education, business science, health, politics, everything. Sports ia just the visable tip of the iceberg. If truth, real fairness, honesty fails here due to agenda driven PC, it will fail everywhere. Not everyone deserves respect. Truth deserves respect. Honesty deserves respect. And fairness deserves respect.

Abnormities are what it’s all about, no such thing as maladjusted. Millions of years of genetic evolution that survive only if they work, that make great differences in your physical bodies, physiology, make for very different propensities and inclinations mean nothing at all ,we will just make up a gender to fit whatever you present and of course (since it’s all made up) you can change your gender at will. The fact that a so called male has a larger muscle mass that gives greater strength that leverages in a greater advantage in completive physical sports, no problem, we will just find a way to gloss over that. Popular media is doing all it can to promote this but it just isn’t enough we need to inoculate children at an early age to the right thinking, we need more articles about multiple genders, never mind that they are convoluted he said she said that could only impress those already “in the tank” Onward and upward!

[JMintzer]

She got to a #20 international ranking and played in the U.S. Open getting to the mixed doubles final once and the semi final another time.

She then went into coach Martina Navrotolva.

She's certainly not a novelty act nor a footnote in women's professional tennis.

You accidentally proved my other point. That biological men are (in most cases) stronger than women.

Richards apparently showed that even in her advanced age, she could beat much younger women...

And as a competitor, after reading her Wiki page, I stand by my original statement... She was ranked for a minute... And coaching? That had nothing to do with physical ability...

[Stu from NYC]

Abnormalities aside, here is the simplified answer. An x chromosome is female, xx is a woman. Y chromosome is the male. Presence of a y is a man. On average men are biger, stronger, faster then women. A so-called transgender woman is not a woman if the y chromosome is present.
Surgical alteration is artificial enhancement to give the physical appearance of what one wishes to look like, but it does not alter ones genetic code.
You may not care about competition in sports, but all of life is competitive. Sports, education, business science, health, politics, everything. Sports ia just the visable tip of the iceberg. If truth, real fairness, honesty fails here due to agenda driven PC, it will fail everywhere. Not everyone deserves respect. Truth deserves respect. Honesty deserves respect. And fairness deserves respect.

You nailed it. But lets give out participation trophies so kids do not have to learn about competition and trying to do their best.

[kkingston57]

Wow, 300+ and rising comments about comment which started about boycotting Adidas. At this rate we will have more comments about this than Costco and discussions regarding gas vs electric golf carts.

[kkingston57]

The official "Old Man" shoe of TV...

https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/691d85d0-c588-416b-b200-4313999f1741_1.ece8e744517537e45f11f9c7f669ea3d.jp eg

Owned two pairs and both of the pairs had problems. For some reason, shoe laces came loose no matter how hard I tied them.

[golfing eagles]

Wow, 300+ and rising comments about comment which started about boycotting Adidas. At this rate we will have more comments about this than Costco and discussions regarding gas vs electric golf carts.

But not dog poop!:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Owned two pairs and both of the pairs had problems. For some reason, shoe laces came loose no matter how hard I tied them.

The reason is they use some synthetic material to make the laces. I just buy cotton laces and use those, they stay tight just fine. You can also buy laces that have thickness "bumps" from end to end, so once you tighten the lace, they can't loosen past the closest bump.

[fdpaq0580]

But not dog poop!:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Aw! I'm touched that you remembered me.🐶

[fdpaq0580]

Wow, 300+ and rising comments about comment which started about boycotting Adidas. At this rate we will have more comments about this than Costco and discussions regarding gas vs electric golf carts.

Pretty good, huh! Actually it was about the reason for the boycott.

[DAVES]

Agree with you. A few decades back I recall comments and jokes about the Russian women at athletic events showing up with "five o'clock shadow " and Adam's apples. Now it is accomplished through surgical body modification. If someone really can't find life bearable as the gender they are and wants to modify their body, I say do it. But, unless they have their DNA changed, they are still the same gender they have always been, but with body modification that mimics the gender they want to be. There are some animals that can change gender. Humans are not one of them.

That event with the Russian women had to do with drugs used for Olympic competition, there was a follow up story on them. Seems due to the drug some had gotten rare cancers and some could not have children. We all know about Lance Armstrong. In his book, It's Not about the Bike, he tells what they, doctors did to give him supernatural abilities without detected. Stuff like blood transfusions after he was tested. New abilities we need new answers. Fair? What is fair? LIFE IS NOT FAIR.

[fdpaq0580]

That event with the Russian women had to do with drugs used for Olympic competition, there was a follow up story on them. Seems due to the drug some had gotten rare cancers and some could not have children. We all know about Lance Armstrong. In his book, It's Not about the Bike, he tells what they, doctors did to give him supernatural abilities without detected. Stuff like blood transfusions after he was tested. New abilities we need new answers. Fair? What is fair? LIFE IS NOT FAIR.

All to true. If life were fair we would be exact replicas of one another. But outside influences would change that.
In sports, athletes at least, used to get to compete with their natural abilities against others of similar natural abilities from the same starting point.

[Stu from NYC]

All to true. If life were fair we would be exact replicas of one another. But outside influences would change that.
In sports, athletes at least, used to get to compete with their natural abilities against others of similar natural abilities from the same starting point.

Amazing how so many do not understand that.

[jimjamuser]

They also lead the world in the usage of antidepressants...

Maybe that's why they're so "happy"...

The World's Biggest Consumers Of Antidepressants (https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2015/11/16/the-worlds-biggest-consumers-of-antidepressants/?sh=7728c1006c06)
It is easy to find fault with ANY particular country or people. The Nordic countries are at a latitude similar to Canada and Alaska. The long winters bring about feelings of isolation and SAD. So, it makes sense that the Swedes would need lots of antidepressants. Plus recently there is the additional tension with Russia and the NEED to join NATO.
........I wonder if Adidas and Nike sell a lot of winter footwear to the Nordic countries - and ski boots? And I wonder if their TV commercials offend the average citizen with material about Gender shape-shifters?

[jimjamuser]

The official "Old Man" shoe of TV...

https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/691d85d0-c588-416b-b200-4313999f1741_1.ece8e744517537e45f11f9c7f669ea3d.jp eg
I believe as people age they feel more comfortable in wider shoes. New Balance offers more in the way of wide sizes. Nike tends to run narrow, so would tend to appeal to the younger audience. New Balance may have decided for marketing purposes to appeal to older customers. They can't be blamed for that.

[Keefelane66]

I’m glad I never liked Weaties look what happened to Bruce Jenner.

[jimjamuser]

A woman is someone with a uterus. Except for women who have had hysterectomies. A woman is someone who can produce milk. Except - men can produce milk too (look it up - they absolutely can, just not to the same extent as women). Also except for women who have had mastectomies. A woman is someone who can give birth. Except those who can't.

It still begs the question: what to "do" about it? I mean I totally get the basketball leagues situation. A man who transitions to a woman, could possibly be a foot taller than the tallest woman in the league. It can certainly be an advantage. But is it enough of an advantage that the league should actually care about it? I'm not convinced it is. But I believe it's a valid question that deserves an answer, for anyone who actually gives a crap about professional basketball.

I don't care about competitive sports at all. None of them. So I have no horse in this race. (I do like riding horses. I just don't race them because - I don't care about competitive sports.)
I think that the governing authority of each women's sports league needs to decide how much gender-switching they and their fans can tolerate. it seems like a tough decision to make. Any decision will upset some fans. ProfessionalTennis was not affected too adversely by allowing Renee Richards to play. It was predicted at the time that MANY male players would change sex just for the large prize money and the notoriety - that prediction never happened.
.......as far as the " men producing milk" I believe that NASA did some research on that general idea because in the far ahead future there may be several generational colony ships traveling to other star systems. I just mention that, but I don't really know the details. NASA does research on some unusual things.

[jimjamuser]

Owned two pairs and both of the pairs had problems. For some reason, shoe laces came loose no matter how hard I tied them.
You could (?) just change laces to ones with greater surface friction/abrasion.

[jimjamuser]

That event with the Russian women had to do with drugs used for Olympic competition, there was a follow up story on them. Seems due to the drug some had gotten rare cancers and some could not have children. We all know about Lance Armstrong. In his book, It's Not about the Bike, he tells what they, doctors did to give him supernatural abilities without detected. Stuff like blood transfusions after he was tested. New abilities we need new answers. Fair? What is fair? LIFE IS NOT FAIR.
One can say that "Life is Not Fair" ......Yet this topic shows the great interest in sports. And is sports fair?
........Sports are probably the FAIREST thing that a person can encounter on a regular basis in their life. Sports equalize for a short period of time, the Prince and the Pauper. The rich and the poor. The playing field is a GREAT equalizer. You can't just brag about your skills - you must show those skills - you must PRODUCE, NOT JUST TALK.
........SPORTS must be FAIR! Fans don't want to pay to see a fixed boxing match! There are written AND unwritten rules designed to keep an event FAIR.

[Keefelane66]

You could (?) just change laces to ones with greater surface friction/abrasion.
I have the same problem with Sperry Boat Shoes just use a little lepages stick glue on laces when new

[MartinSE]

One can say that "Life is Not Fair" ......Yet this topic shows the great interest in sports. And is sports fair?
........Sports are probably the FAIREST thing that a person can encounter on a regular basis in their life. Sports equalize for a short period of time, the Prince and the Pauper. The rich and the poor. The playing field is a GREAT equalizer. You can't just brag about your skills - you must show those skills - you must PRODUCE, NOT JUST TALK.
........SPORTS must be FAIR! Fans don't want to pay to see a fixed boxing match! There are written AND unwritten rules designed to keep an event FAIR.

Well, sports are sort of fair, there is definitely a home team advantage. There are definitely officials that make "bad" calls which one side benefits from and the other doesn't. Etc.

Chess is "fairer" since there is a defined set of rules both play by, and no one making judgment calls. Should we ban trans from Chess?

[kkingston57]

You could (?) just change laces to ones with greater surface friction/abrasion.

Why did they sell shoes with these laces in the 1st place?

[Stu from NYC]

Why did they sell shoes with these laces in the 1st place?

Cheaper laces?

[PugMom]

Nike likes to get good social credit scores for sole purpose of stock value on Wall Street…race, gender….”equity” It’s all projection….they do something and accuse you of doing it…….you think they give a crap about humans….they moved their factories from China to other slave labor countries for profit….90% of all “American “ companies “just “ do it…… and we all love shopping at Walmart …. This is the middle of the slippery slope of global corporate domination…. Equity is also a distraction that is hiding the real quest of taking away personal freedoms….speech , privacy and the nuclear family unit…..China did this - Russia is almost there and we are next….

it's gone so far that we are hard-pressed to find anything made in usa anymore

[jimjamuser]

it's gone so far that we are hard-pressed to find anything made in usa anymore
I think that the US is responsible for China becoming an economic monster / giant. And now that economic Frankenstein's monster wants to eat its maker. It would NOT be easy, but we need to reverse the process. At the beginning of the pandemic, the US did not even have enough MASKS for Americans because we were OVERLY dependent on China. That is just a small example. Today it is electronic chips that are holding back the US manufacturing of vehicles.
.......US security would be improved by every factory that LEFT China and RETURNED here. The US middle class could be strengthened instead of the Chinese middle class. There are plenty of men and women in the US that do not have a College Degree and would like to work in a factory. That might even be the answer to lowering crime. Give people a purpose. And the US needs a road building and mass transit building program to accommodate all the new population. Our current road and bridge system would probably be about right for 250 million people.
.........US people fighting each other over "culture wars" issues and hating on shoe brands that advertise toward young people that routinely have little bias is just playing into China and other dictators' hands.

[Laker14]

this thread

[jdulej]

I think that the US is responsible for China becoming an economic monster / giant. And now that economic Frankenstein's monster wants to eat its maker. It would NOT be easy, but we need to reverse the process. At the beginning of the pandemic, the US did not even have enough MASKS for Americans because we were OVERLY dependent on China. That is just a small example. Today it is electronic chips that are holding back the US manufacturing of vehicles.
.......US security would be improved by every factory that LEFT China and RETURNED here. The US middle class could be strengthened instead of the Chinese middle class. There are plenty of men and women in the US that do not have a College Degree and would like to work in a factory. That might even be the answer to lowering crime. Give people a purpose. And the US needs a road building and mass transit building program to accommodate all the new population. Our current road and bridge system would probably be about right for 250 million people.
.........US people fighting each other over "culture wars" issues and hating on shoe brands that advertise toward young people that routinely have little bias is just playing into China and other dictators' hands.

Check this for some interesting info - Press Center
| TrendForce - Market research, price trend of DRAM, NAND Flash, LEDs, TFT-LCD and green energy, PV (https://www.trendforce.com/presscenter/news/20210305-10693.html). Taiwan and S Korea 80+ % market share of semiconductor manufacturing, China 5-6%.
What we should be doing (IMHO) is taking care of our friends and allies and making sure the "bad guys" know there are consequences for stepping over the line - they are not our friends, but they can be (and are now in most cases) valuable business partners.
These factories are NEVER coming back to the USA with more than a token presence. People need to get over that pipe dream and push back on any BSing politician who says they can do it.

[bark4me]

Clearly you don't follow the bouncing ball very well

[bark4me]

I'm with you

[MartinSE]

.........US people fighting each other over "culture wars" issues and hating on shoe brands that advertise toward young people that routinely have little bias is just playing into China and other dictators' hands.

The US is on a dangerous path, and almost daily now I ask "who benefits by America being at war with itself". All the hate and anger. Things don't just happen. There are at least two countries that come to mind.

[naneng]

Omg, I totally agree. It’s a disgrace. I Turn it off when it comes on. Commercials and shows on TV are getting worse by the day. CRT getting shoved down ALL of out throats👎👎😡😡🤮🤮

[Topspinmo]

Like the Bobby Riggs/Billie Jean King match, Renee Richards was a novelty act.

An older, slightly above average country club men's player who did nothing on the women's tour...

Tennis not good example, same as swimming, weight lifting……….shot putt, running……

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AptRn1YFks

Now darts, bowling, and billiards then yes. Golf not good example why have different tee offs boxes. Now putt putt you bet.

[Keefelane66]

This discussion is entering the Twilight Zone

[Bogie Shooter]

This discussion is entering the Twilight Zone

Moving over to CRT…………..

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Moving over to CRT…………..

Three computer monitors ago, I had a CRT. I use an LCD now.

[JMintzer]

It is easy to find fault with ANY particular country or people. The Nordic countries are at a latitude similar to Canada and Alaska. The long winters bring about feelings of isolation and SAD. So, it makes sense that the Swedes would need lots of antidepressants. Plus recently there is the additional tension with Russia and the NEED to join NATO.
........I wonder if Adidas and Nike sell a lot of winter footwear to the Nordic countries - and ski boots? And I wonder if their TV commercials offend the average citizen with material about Gender shape-shifters?

Nothing to do with recent events. It's a long standing statistic...

And by your logic, Alaska would be at the top of US States in percentage of antidepressant usage. Fact is, they're at the bottom...

• Antidepressant use by state U.S. 2019 | Statista (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1133632/antidepressant-use-by-state-us/#:~:text=Based%20on%20pharmacy%20claims%20of,%2C%2 0Vermont%2C%20and%20New%20Hampshire).

[JMintzer]

I believe as people age they feel more comfortable in wider shoes. New Balance offers more in the way of wide sizes. Nike tends to run narrow, so would tend to appeal to the younger audience. New Balance may have decided for marketing purposes to appeal to older customers. They can't be blamed for that.

No, really? I had no idea!

It's not like I would know anything about footwear or anything... :ohdear::ohdear::ohdear:

[JMintzer]

I think that the governing authority of each women's sports league needs to decide how much gender-switching they and their fans can tolerate. it seems like a tough decision to make. Any decision will upset some fans. ProfessionalTennis was not affected too adversely by allowing Renee Richards to play. It was predicted at the time that MANY male players would change sex just for the large prize money and the notoriety - that prediction never happened.
.......as far as the " men producing milk" I believe that NASA did some research on that general idea because in the far ahead future there may be several generational colony ships traveling to other star systems. I just mention that, but I don't really know the details. NASA does research on some unusual things.

Back then, women weren't making comparable $$$ that the men were making...

[JMintzer]

Well, sports are sort of fair, there is definitely a home team advantage. There are definitely officials that make "bad" calls which one side benefits from and the other doesn't. Etc.

Chess is "fairer" since there is a defined set of rules both play by, and no one making judgment calls. Should we ban trans from Chess?

Not to mention those who can afford to pay for coaches, trainers, etc, etc, etc...

And since my expertise in competitive chess is limited to watching "The Queen's Gambit", I was under the impression that there were no sex separate chess tournaments...

[JMintzer]

this thread

C'mon, you gotta show Fonzie!

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DishonestIndolentHoneybee-size_restricted.gif

[JMintzer]

Tennis not good example, same as swimming, weight lifting……….shot putt, running……

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AptRn1YFks

Now darts, bowling, and billiards then yes. Golf not good example why have different tee offs boxes. Now putt putt you bet.

Interesting video...

And actually, tennis and golf are very good examples.

I have a very good friend who has a home in the same Country Club Community as the Willams Sisters.

His sons were both excellent High School players and good college players, but never were good enough to pursue a professional career.

When the boys are in FL they often practice with both Willams sisters. They easily keep up with them and are capable of beating them on a regular basis...

To your point about golf, both Michelle Wei and Annika Sorenstam tired playing on the men's PGA Tour.

Sorenstam played once and missed the cut. Wei played multiple times and missed the cut 2/3 of the times. Her best finish was tied for 35th place.

[Laker14]

C'mon, you gotta show Fonzie!

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DishonestIndolentHoneybee-size_restricted.gif

forgot about the Fonz.

[JMintzer]

forgot about the Fonz.

That's where the term "Jumping the Shark" originated! :shocked:

Jumping the shark - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark)

[MartinSE]

Not to mention those who can afford to pay for coaches, trainers, etc, etc, etc...

And since my expertise in competitive chess is limited to watching "The Queen's Gambit", I was under the impression that there were no sex separate chess tournaments...

Far as I know there isn't, which was part of my satire.

And Queens Gambit was an EXCELLENT show. I never made it past Master in the ratings, grand masters were like gods to me.

[golfing eagles]

No, really? I had no idea!

It's not like I would know anything about footwear or anything... :ohdear::ohdear::ohdear:

Welcome to my world!
Rank amateurs and "googlers" arguing with the experts.

[Nick B]

Some have principles not all
It's all Chinese crap who cares?

[Two Bills]

Women get equal prize money at Wimbledon, yet only play three set matches, whereas men play five.
Personally if women only played one set I would be happy.
Their shrieking drives me nuts.
Even my wife, an avid tennis player and watcher, has the sound off when the Banshees Play!:icon_wink:

[Keefelane66]

Omg, I totally agree. It’s a disgrace. I Turn it off when it comes on. Commercials and shows on TV are getting worse by the day. CRT getting shoved down ALL of out throats👎👎😡😡🤮🤮
Please explain.

[JMintzer]

Welcome to my world!
Rank amateurs and "googlers" arguing with the experts.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81JrskWprFL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

[MartinSE]

Please explain.

They are just repeating dog whistles and sadly can't explain.

[JMintzer]

They are just repeating dog whistles and sadly can't explain.

You really wanna' go there?

[Keefelane66]

You really wanna' go there?
And they are banning math books claiming CRT or are they trying to prove 74.2 million is greater than 81.2 million.

[44Apple]

Kind of late, but I'd say this is a political discussion. Guess the moderators don't mind.

[JMintzer]

And they are banning math books claiming CRT or are they trying to prove 74.2 million is greater than 81.2 million.

Since you're new here, I can only guess you don't know the rules about blatant political posts...

[JMintzer]

Kind of late, but I'd say this is a political discussion. Guess the moderators don't mind.

It's only political to those trying to make it political...

[MartinSE]

You really wanna' go there?

Sure, are you implying I post dog whistles, as driveway posts?

[Keefelane66]

Since you're new here, I can only guess you don't know the rules about blatant political posts...
“ We burn them to ashes and then burn the ashes."

[jimjamuser]

Check this for some interesting info - Press Center
| TrendForce - Market research, price trend of DRAM, NAND Flash, LEDs, TFT-LCD and green energy, PV (https://www.trendforce.com/presscenter/news/20210305-10693.html). Taiwan and S Korea 80+ % market share of semiconductor manufacturing, China 5-6%.
What we should be doing (IMHO) is taking care of our friends and allies and making sure the "bad guys" know there are consequences for stepping over the line - they are not our friends, but they can be (and are now in most cases) valuable business partners.
These factories are NEVER coming back to the USA with more than a token presence. People need to get over that pipe dream and push back on any BSing politician who says they can do it.
I stated that it would be DIFFICULT to disengage from China. Difficult does NOT mean impossible. And there are already examples of US factories being more cost-effective than their Chinese equivalent. It just takes a large investment in ROBOTICS. There are other advantages to "ONSHORING" simply because your customer base may mostly be in the US. A company does not have to constantly send employees to China to make sure that their product is built with enough quality control standards. Then there is the language problem leading to misinterpretations. Also the cost of transportation of finished products across the Pacific Ocean ( and the hold-ups that we see currently at US ports). Doing business with China always entails the US losing technology and patent protection. There also must be many unintended costs of doing business with China.
.........What about the future as China becomes more MILITANT and aggressive? This is something that Japan and South Korea are worried about today. We could add Australia to that list. We may be witnessing the beginning of a WORLDWIDE clash between Democracies and Totalitarian countries?
..........America might be wise to BEGIN separating itself from China. As the free world is now beginning to separate from Russia.

[jimjamuser]

The US is on a dangerous path, and almost daily now I ask "who benefits by America being at war with itself". All the hate and anger. Things don't just happen. There are at least two countries that come to mind.
I agree completely!

[jimjamuser]

Three computer monitors ago, I had a CRT. I use an LCD now.
Amazing that someone remembers the late-great Cathode Ray Tube.
(which may still have some limited application because of low-noise qualities in super high fidelity sound equipment)

[jimjamuser]

Far as I know there isn't, which was part of my satire.

And Queens Gambit was an EXCELLENT show. I never made it past Master in the ratings, grand masters were like gods to me.
There are levels of everything, especially in sports. It doesn't take away from the ENJOYMENT at any level. Any level takes time, fitness, and mental concentration. Being at the level of Chessmaster seems impressive to me. Kudos

[jimjamuser]

Welcome to my world!
Rank amateurs and "googlers" arguing with the experts.
That would be the WHOLE point of a FORUM. To allow, through argumentation, the dissemination of information from the "learned expert" to the poor, unwashed minds of the masses. I feel so blessed when I can feel the warm sunlight of knowledge emanating from our own "learned experts" - and caressing my brain cells and adding new meaning to my life! I feel so blessed!

[jimjamuser]

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81JrskWprFL._AC_SL1500_.jpg
And in SOME (?) cases the Google search would lead to better medical advice. Many Family-type Physicians are time-limited to the extent their one-year or 6-month appointment does NOT adequately meet a patient's needs for information. So a thoughtful patient needs to use Google to research their own medical issues so that they can BETTER communicate with medical professionals. Our recent Pandemic showed the need to relate remotely using various media. Also, Google is up to date and many medical professionals are not.

[JMintzer]

And in SOME (?) cases the Google search would lead to better medical advice. Many Family-type Physicians are time-limited to the extent their one-year or 6-month appointment does NOT adequately meet a patient's needs for information. So a thoughtful patient needs to use Google to research their own medical issues so that they can BETTER communicate with medical professionals. Our recent Pandemic showed the need to relate remotely using various media. Also, Google is up to date and many medical professionals are not.

Sure use the rare exception to make your argument... :ohdear:

[golfing eagles]

And in SOME (?) cases the Google search would lead to better medical advice. Many Family-type Physicians are time-limited to the extent their one-year or 6-month appointment does NOT adequately meet a patient's needs for information. So a thoughtful patient needs to use Google to research their own medical issues so that they can BETTER communicate with medical professionals. Our recent Pandemic showed the need to relate remotely using various media. Also, Google is up to date and many medical professionals are not.

and the result is:

[jimjamuser]

and the result is:
Cute ! And in the background is a gravestone of a man that died earlier than he needed to after getting advice from his older family Doctor who said, "you won't need any additional tests". (because you have a medicare C, medicare advantage plan and they won't pay for additional tests - they wait for you to die).

[golfing eagles]

Cute ! And in the background is a gravestone of a man that died earlier than he needed to after getting advice from his older family Doctor who said, "you won't need any additional tests". (because you have a medicare C, medicare advantage plan and they won't pay for additional tests - they wait for you to die).

Yeah, right---that's how it happens. If you think you can google something and match the expertise of a physician, you are simply delusional. Actually, let me make that 95% of physicians, there is always a quack out there.

[Stu from NYC]

Cute ! And in the background is a gravestone of a man that died earlier than he needed to after getting advice from his older family Doctor who said, "you won't need any additional tests". (because you have a medicare C, medicare advantage plan and they won't pay for additional tests - they wait for you to die).

The vast majority of physicians care.

[Laker14]

This thread needs a DNR.

[MartinSE]

Sure use the rare exception to make your argument... :ohdear:

I will take exception to calling that an EXCEPTION. For years I was under for-profit healthcare. And for those years where ever I lived, Denver, Phoenix, etc, etc. There was a common thread, doctors that had to maximize the number of patients seen per day just to keep up with the bills in private practice. So common a problem that many of those doctors gave up and joined healthcare groups where they were basically employees. Then when I went in to the "doctors office" I would see which ever doctor was on rotation. I would see that doctor for precisely 15 minutes, no more no less. Because they had quotas. And those doctors typical had NO idea who I was or what my medical history was, because they had never seen me before. And while they spent maybe 10 of those 15 minutes reading my chart to see what the other doctors said, they would ask ME questions to help them understand what the other doctors meant. They almost without exception, they would ask me what I would like to do or have done.

Now that I am in the VA its is totally the opposite. Had my annual today, and the doctor chat with me, know me, discussed my history and how I was doing. Made suggestions on changes and all in all gave me a very safe feeling.

Every single person I know that is in the for profit healthcare system has had exactly the same experience as me. And in addition to that, statistic seems to support the idea, since the US has worse healthcare outcomes that almost any other first world country.

[MartinSE]

The vast majority of physicians care.

I completely agree with you. EVERY doctor I have interacted with over the past 70 years were all concerned. The all cared. Yup. BUT. many (most?) are living private practice and those that end up in groups like Shands, are basically beaten into submission. They still care, but they also have to meet quotas.

[MartinSE]

Yeah, right---that's how it happens. If you think you can google something and match the expertise of a physician, you are simply delusional. Actually, let me make that 95% of physicians, there is always a quack out there.

I don't think that is what he meant, I think he meant doctors are forced into curing out numbers. They care, they are experts, but they don't have the time to delve into every patients case. I completely support doctors, everyone I know is a good decent caring care giver. I feel sorry for the position they find themselves in.

[Sabella]

The discussion in this thread seems to be coming from several different angles including a call to cancel a company and an outright threat against someone who is different. Regrettably (though not unexpectedly) some of the discussion is most definitely intolerant and hateful.
Wake up and deal with reality.

[JMintzer]

I will take exception to calling that an EXCEPTION. For years I was under for-profit healthcare. And for those years where ever I lived, Denver, Phoenix, etc, etc. There was a common thread, doctors that had to maximize the number of patients seen per day just to keep up with the bills in private practice. So common a problem that many of those doctors gave up and joined healthcare groups where they were basically employees. Then when I went in to the "doctors office" I would see which ever doctor was on rotation. I would see that doctor for precisely 15 minutes, no more no less. Because they had quotas. And those doctors typical had NO idea who I was or what my medical history was, because they had never seen me before. And while they spent maybe 10 of those 15 minutes reading my chart to see what the other doctors said, they would ask ME questions to help them understand what the other doctors meant. They almost without exception, they would ask me what I would like to do or have done.

Now that I am in the VA its is totally the opposite. Had my annual today, and the doctor chat with me, know me, discussed my history and how I was doing. Made suggestions on changes and all in all gave me a very safe feeling.

Every single person I know that is in the for profit healthcare system has had exactly the same experience as me. And in addition to that, statistic seems to support the idea, since the US has worse healthcare outcomes that almost any other first world country.

I don't know what magical VA you went to, but every single patient I've ever seen, who's come from the VA had a completely opposite experience. NO ONE knew who they were, appointments were as rare as hen's teeth...

[Stu from NYC]

I don't know what magical VA you went to, but every single patient I've ever seen, who's come from the VA had a completely opposite experience. NO ONE knew who they were, appointments were as rare as hen's teeth...

Asking for a friend why do hens not have teeth?

Do think this whole thread has been discussed to death and beyond

[JMintzer]

Asking for a friend why do hens not have teeth?

Because the Dentist was across the road...

Do think this whole thread has been discussed to death and beyond

Agreed...

[jimjamuser]

Yeah, right---that's how it happens. If you think you can google something and match the expertise of a physician, you are simply delusional. Actually, let me make that 95% of physicians, there is always a quack out there.
That is correct. A google search is not equivalent to advice from a medical professional. But, a person's computer is available 24 / 7 for medical advice and their individual Physician may NOT be - they might be on the golf course when a patient FEELS a need for information. Physicians are overworked and often must decrease the time allotted for each patient visit. They have hospital rounds and etc. They have the US "insurance system and lobby" leading them around by rings in their noses! Doctors in the 1950s had things different than they do today. Today they are NOT like individual and INDEPENDANT small business entrepreneurs. They are merely COGS in a large corporate wheel - "step out of line and the man comes and kicks you in ..........the knee"
......Young people that are internet savvy want to have medical knowledge and all other knowledge that is waiting there with a few clicks on the "Google Machine". Knowledge IS more universal and important to the average person today than it was in the 1950s!

[jimjamuser]

The vast majority of physicians care.
True, I agree.

[jimjamuser]

I will take exception to calling that an EXCEPTION. For years I was under for-profit healthcare. And for those years where ever I lived, Denver, Phoenix, etc, etc. There was a common thread, doctors that had to maximize the number of patients seen per day just to keep up with the bills in private practice. So common a problem that many of those doctors gave up and joined healthcare groups where they were basically employees. Then when I went in to the "doctors office" I would see which ever doctor was on rotation. I would see that doctor for precisely 15 minutes, no more no less. Because they had quotas. And those doctors typical had NO idea who I was or what my medical history was, because they had never seen me before. And while they spent maybe 10 of those 15 minutes reading my chart to see what the other doctors said, they would ask ME questions to help them understand what the other doctors meant. They almost without exception, they would ask me what I would like to do or have done.

Now that I am in the VA its is totally the opposite. Had my annual today, and the doctor chat with me, know me, discussed my history and how I was doing. Made suggestions on changes and all in all gave me a very safe feeling.

Every single person I know that is in the for profit healthcare system has had exactly the same experience as me. And in addition to that, statistic seems to support the idea, since the US has worse healthcare outcomes that almost any other first world country.
Exactly what I have been saying for years. Look at the order of the list of world countries and you will see America in a different light - healthcare (like what was said) is just one big example of how far America has dropped since being in the top 10 after WW2. We have been poisoned in our thinking by insurance companies that use lobbyists to frame US opinion AGAINST National Health Care - they talk like Universal Health Care is a "commie" plot. Yet, it works fine in Canada (and all other civilized countries). Last I heard Canada was a free and non-Communist country.

[jimjamuser]

I don't know what magical VA you went to, but every single patient I've ever seen, who's come from the VA had a completely opposite experience. NO ONE knew who they were, appointments were as rare as hen's teeth...
The VA is a wonderful organization that has many dedicated medical staff members. They suffer ONLY from BUDGET restraints. Many Veterans are told, "go die for your country and we will take care of your medical and other needs". The Veterans do their part, but then the VA staff, who want to give back to the Veterans, are hamstrung by BUDGET cut-backs!
.........The VA for the most part IS well-liked by Veterans - the VA hospital system is VERY efficient (best interconnected medical software available) because it is the closest thing in the US to a Universal Healthcare System.
........many smart individuals would like to see the VA as a good model for ALL US healthcare. The current HELTER SKELTER insurance based system of "may I" please get care and "please don't deny me" is a big JOKE!

[Stu from NYC]

Exactly what I have been saying for years. Look at the order of the list of world countries and you will see America in a different light - healthcare (like what was said) is just one big example of how far America has dropped since being in the top 10 after WW2. We have been poisoned in our thinking by insurance companies that use lobbyists to frame US opinion AGAINST National Health Care - they talk like Universal Health Care is a "commie" plot. Yet, it works fine in Canada (and all other civilized countries). Last I heard Canada was a free and non-Communist country.

Talk to a few Canadians about their health care.

It might be free but you can wait for months for basic test and procedures. Quite a few Canadians come here for their medical needs. Not so simple

[jimjamuser]

Asking for a friend why do hens not have teeth?

Do think this whole thread has been discussed to death and beyond
Those to who wish to may simply walk away because when you click on to a thread, there are no handcuffs that push out from the keyboard to imprison someone into remaining on a thread. Freedom of thread speech AKA threech!

[jimjamuser]

Talk to a few Canadians about their health care.

It might be free but you can wait for months for basic test and procedures. Quite a few Canadians come here for their medical needs. Not so simple
Every Canadian that I ever talked to RAVED about their healthcare. And they consider the US system so BAD that they hate to have to ever use it. They go so far as to take out special insurance to protect themselves while they are in the US.

[Stu from NYC]

Every Canadian that I ever talked to RAVED about their healthcare. And they consider the US system so BAD that they hate to have to ever use it. They go so far as to take out special insurance to protect themselves while they are in the US.

All I can say is we seem to have talked to different Canadians.

You might want to ask one how long from the time they are told they need a new hip for example to the surgery. That answer may open your eyes.

Or any other type of expensive surgery for that matter.

[JMintzer]

The VA is a wonderful organization that has many dedicated medical staff members. They suffer ONLY from BUDGET restraints. Many Veterans are told, "go die for your country and we will take care of your medical and other needs". The Veterans do their part, but then the VA staff, who want to give back to the Veterans, are hamstrung by BUDGET cut-backs!
.........The VA for the most part IS well-liked by Veterans - the VA hospital system is VERY efficient (best interconnected medical software available) because it is the closest thing in the US to a Universal Healthcare System.
........many smart individuals would like to see the VA as a good model for ALL US healthcare. The current HELTER SKELTER insurance based system of "may I" please get care and "please don't deny me" is a big JOKE!


Wrong on just about every level...

Why VA's electronic health record mega-project is failing - FCW (https://fcw.com/it-modernization/2021/07/why-vas-electronic-health-record-mega-project-is-failing/259229/)

• Reasons veterans and active service do not use VA health services U.S. 2021 | Statista (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1102115/reasons-veterans-and-active-service-members-do-not-use-va-primary-care-provider/)

Reports highlight failures of the VA’s health system during the pandemic | PBS NewsHour (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/reports-highlight-failures-of-the-vas-health-system-during-the-pandemic)

VA watchdog details 'devastating, tragic and deadly' failures that allowed impaired pathologist to misdiagnose thousands | Fierce Healthcare (https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/hospitals/va-oig-details-flawed-processes-leadership-failures-allowed-impaired-pathologist-to)

I can cite more, if you wish...

[JMintzer]

Every Canadian that I ever talked to RAVED about their healthcare. And they consider the US system so BAD that they hate to have to ever use it. They go so far as to take out special insurance to protect themselves while they are in the US.

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

That is why so many come to the US for their surgery...

[jdulej]

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

That is why so many come to the US for their surgery...

I don't really have a dog in this hunt, but am just curious. Do Canadians who come here for these fairly large procedures, then just pay cash for it and go home? The US hospitals must love these guys! I don't know very many who could afford to lay out 50-100K for something they could just wait awhile for and get for free. Unless it's just the Canadian version of 1%ers where money does not really mean anything?

[golfing eagles]

That is correct. A google search is not equivalent to advice from a medical professional. But, a person's computer is available 24 / 7 for medical advice and their individual Physician may NOT be - they might be on the golf course when a patient FEELS a need for information. Physicians are overworked and often must decrease the time allotted for each patient visit. They have hospital rounds and etc. They have the US "insurance system and lobby" leading them around by rings in their noses! Doctors in the 1950s had things different than they do today. Today they are NOT like individual and INDEPENDANT small business entrepreneurs. They are merely COGS in a large corporate wheel - "step out of line and the man comes and kicks you in ..........the knee"
......Young people that are internet savvy want to have medical knowledge and all other knowledge that is waiting there with a few clicks on the "Google Machine". Knowledge IS more universal and important to the average person today than it was in the 1950s!

All I can say is WOW!

I was senior partner and CFO in a private group practice for over 30 years, so please continue to explain to me how this works:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[JMintzer]

I don't really have a dog in this hunt, but am just curious. Do Canadians who come here for these fairly large procedures, then just pay cash for it and go home? The US hospitals must love these guys! I don't know very many who could afford to lay out 50-100K for something they could just wait awhile for and get for free. Unless it's just the Canadian version of 1%ers where money does not really mean anything?

Canadians Come to America for Better Care - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/canadians-come-to-america-for-better-care-1514410218)

[Keefelane66]

Canadians Come to America for Better Care - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/canadians-come-to-america-for-better-care-1514410218)
What the heck does medical care have to do with Adidas?

[dewilson58]

Well first it was Nike. Threw away or gave to charity all all my Nike stuff including a golf bag and would never buy anything with a swoosh on it again. Now Adidas is running a commercial pushing transgender women in sports.
Pretty soon I will be barefoot

Coming up on 400 posts.......................I had to go back to the OP's OP and remember what this thread was about.

Oh, that's right.

Any suggestions for good shoe for the OP???

[jdulej]

Canadians Come to America for Better Care - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/canadians-come-to-america-for-better-care-1514410218)

The link is behind a pay wall, but I don't consider the WSJ to provide fair reporting anyway.

[JMintzer]

What the heck does medical care have to do with Adidas?

Not a clue. Ask the people who brought it up.I'm only answering their questions...

[JMintzer]

The link is behind a pay wall, but I don't consider the WSJ to provide fair reporting anyway.

Pray tell, who DO you consider fair? (this should be interesting...)

[jdulej]

Pray tell, who DO you consider fair? (this should be interesting...)

That's easy. No one.

If I wanted to get a "fair" look at this topic, for example, I'd read the WSJ, NYT, WaP , BBC or Guardian and something (don't know what) from Canada. Somewhere in all that is the "fair" look at the facts.

[Caymus]

That's easy. No one.

If I wanted to get a "fair" look at this topic, for example, I'd read the WSJ, NYT, WaP , BBC or Guardian and something (don't know what) from Canada. Somewhere in all that is the "fair" look at the facts.

Well, at least one of those is "fair".

[JMintzer]

That's easy. No one.

If I wanted to get a "fair" look at this topic, for example, I'd read the WSJ, NYT, WaP , BBC or Guardian and something (don't know what) from Canada. Somewhere in all that is the "fair" look at the facts.

So, you'd read the WSJ, but when I cite the WSJ, it's not good enough? :shocked:

[jdulej]

So, you'd read the WSJ, but when I cite the WSJ, it's not good enough? :shocked:

Exactly. It's one part of the story. IMHO (and it's only MO) you never get the fair (meaning all side considered) story with one source. If you just want to have your pre determined opinion supported - one source is fine. If you want something closer to the truth - you need to listen to all sides!

[Stu from NYC]

Well, at least one of those is "fair".

There is fair and than there is fair.

[Caymus]

Exactly. It's one part of the story. IMHO (and it's only MO) you never get the fair (meaning all side considered) story with one source. If you just want to have your pre determined opinion supported - one source is fine. If you want something closer to the truth - you need to listen to all sides!


I get all my "news" from CNN+:icon_wink:

[jimbomaybe]

Exactly. It's one part of the story. IMHO (and it's only MO) you never get the fair (meaning all side considered) story with one source. If you just want to have your pre determined opinion supported - one source is fine. If you want something closer to the truth - you need to listen to all sides!

And then pick the one (s) that are the closest to your already established opinion

[Calisport]

And the “ my pillow” guy who sells cushions for $68.00 and 6 towels for $106 dollars and then thanks God for reducing the price.


I took apart an uncomfortable "my pillow" once when I threw it out and the "patented filling" was torn up foam. Someone left the new boxed pillows out for free. No wonder they were free.
I also don't buy company logo clothes which are usually ugly large logos and clothes.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I took apart an uncomfortable "my pillow" once when I threw it out and the "patented filling" was torn up foam. Someone left the new boxed pillows out for free. No wonder they were free.
I also don't buy company logo clothes which are usually ugly large logos and clothes.

I always wondered why consumers are willing to pay EXTRA for company advertisements emblazoned on their chests, hats, hoodies. I get the little Levi's tag or the swish on the side of your sneaker. Most normal people don't look there to see what brand a person is wearing.

But shirts, hoodies, hats that have the company logo big enough that the casual observer can't possibly miss it - why aren't those people being paid to advertise those companies? Why are you all paying for it?

Same thing with buying cars from dealerships. They should be paying me to have their sticker on the back of my car.

[KAM+6]

I took apart an uncomfortable "my pillow" once when I threw it out and the "patented filling" was torn up foam. Someone left the new boxed pillows out for free. No wonder they were free.
I also don't buy company logo clothes which are usually ugly large logos and clothes.

Ironically, he has almost all immigrants working in his factory. Such a phony.

[Stu from NYC]

Ironically, he has almost all immigrants working in his factory. Such a phony.

Who is he? And what is wrong with providing jobs to immigrants? My grandparents got started here like that

[JMintzer]

Ironically, he has almost all immigrants working in his factory. Such a phony.

Care to back that up? I'll wait...

[Keefelane66]

The Villages golf apparel makes me golf better than Adidas’s

[MartinSE]

The link is behind a pay wall, but I don't consider the WSJ to provide fair reporting anyway.

Woah, WSJ not fair? I found them very fair, just too conservative for my taste. I have no problem quoting them as a reliable source.

[jimjamuser]

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

That is why so many come to the US for their surgery...
The super-rich Canadians come here for surgery because they think so highly of themselves that they NEED people to JUMP quickly to serve them (like their personal medical slaves). They know that their money ($) will JUMP them to the front of the line in the US.
........It IS nothing more than that !

[golfing eagles]

The super-rich Canadians come here for surgery because they think so highly of themselves that they NEED people to JUMP quickly to serve them (like their personal medical slaves). They know that their money ($) will JUMP them to the front of the line in the US.
........It IS nothing more than that !

So you're fond of our neighbors to the north. Any other countries you would like to bash at this time??????

[jimjamuser]

And then pick the one (s) that are the closest to your already established opinion
For example, when I watch a particular TV channel at 8 PM ........I get 10 minutes of his opinion piece. If I pay close attention, if find that he "fast-talks" quickly through some false statements (lies) while sprinkling in some real facts (truth).
.......If you pay attention, then the combination of 80% truth and 20% lies - is setting up a "big Picture" theme that is designed to plant the idea that the TV network (owned by some jerk British guy) wants the viewer to internalize. Thus, it is simply PROPAGANDA ! And it is designed to SLOWLY seep into the minds of the audience.
.........This TV channel is very successful at what it does. I am sure that their purpose is to WEAKEN the strong will of the Ameican people. What I and many other experts do NOT know is WHY they would WANT to DO such a terrible and unpatriotic thing...............best guess.....maybe it is for POWER that they MIGHT get if they succeeded at their US anarchy ??????????

[jimjamuser]

I always wondered why consumers are willing to pay EXTRA for company advertisements emblazoned on their chests, hats, hoodies. I get the little Levi's tag or the swish on the side of your sneaker. Most normal people don't look there to see what brand a person is wearing.

But shirts, hoodies, hats that have the company logo big enough that the casual observer can't possibly miss it - why aren't those people being paid to advertise those companies? Why are you all paying for it?

Same thing with buying cars from dealerships. They should be paying me to have their sticker on the back of my car.
I agree about car dealer stickers or around the license plate. I get rid of them. They don't pay me for advertising for them!

[jimjamuser]

Who is he? And what is wrong with providing jobs to immigrants? My grandparents got started here like that
When your grandfather came to the US, the population was probably less than 200 million people. The US had the room and infrastructure to support them......THEN. Today our highways and bridges are falling apart and houses cost over $400,000.........that is due to OVERPOPULATION. So, today people are outraged at ILLEGALS entering the southern border. And many think that we need to turn down the faucet on EVEN legal immigration.
.....Hope that answers your question.

[jimjamuser]

So you're fond of our neighbors to the north. Any other countries you would like to bash at this time??????
Not bashing the wonderful people of Canada and the very interesting ones in TV Land here. Just bashing the TOP 1/2 of 1 percenters that think of themselves as TOO GOOD to use their own country's SOLID National Health Care........which by the way, I am very JEALOUS of and wish that the US had.
..........I am sure that others may disagree, but I find that MONEY usually tends to CORRUPT and that individuals in the upper 10% are often jerks.......like Jarad, Zuckerberg, Koch, Musk, and Jeff Bezos. Some people may idolize them, of course. But, obviously, I am NOT one of them!

[JMintzer]

The super-rich Canadians come here for surgery because they think so highly of themselves that they NEED people to JUMP quickly to serve them (like their personal medical slaves). They know that their money ($) will JUMP them to the front of the line in the US.
........It IS nothing more than that !

Unbelievable... Just unbelievable... The thoughts that rattle around up there never cease to amaze!

[JMintzer]

For example, when I watch a particular TV channel at 8 PM ........I get 10 minutes of his opinion piece. If I pay close attention, if find that he "fast-talks" quickly through some false statements (lies) while sprinkling in some real facts (truth).
.......If you pay attention, then the combination of 80% truth and 20% lies - is setting up a "big Picture" theme that is designed to plant the idea that the TV network (owned by some jerk British guy) wants the viewer to internalize. Thus, it is simply PROPAGANDA ! And it is designed to SLOWLY seep into the minds of the audience.
.........This TV channel is very successful at what it does. I am sure that their purpose is to WEAKEN the strong will of the Ameican people. What I and many other experts do NOT know is WHY they would WANT to DO such a terrible and unpatriotic thing...............best guess.....maybe it is for POWER that they MIGHT get if they succeeded at their US anarchy ??????????

Exhibit B...

[golfing eagles]

Unbelievable... Just unbelievable... The thoughts that rattle around up there never cease to amaze!

You call them "thoughts"?:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[JMintzer]

When your grandfather came to the US, the population was probably less than 200 million people. The US had the room and infrastructure to support them......THEN. Today our highways and bridges are falling apart and houses cost over $400,000.........that is due to OVERPOPULATION. So, today people are outraged at ILLEGALS entering the southern border. And many think that we need to turn down the faucet on EVEN legal immigration.
.....Hope that answers your question.

No, our bridges and highways are falling apart due to LACK OF PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE... Typically in cities run by incompetents...

And I haven't seen ANYONE post ANYTHING about wanting to stop LEGAL immigration...

[JMintzer]

Not bashing the wonderful people of Canada and the very interesting ones in TV Land here. Just bashing the TOP 1/2 of 1 percenters that think of themselves as TOO GOOD to use their own country's SOLID National Health Care........which by the way, I am very JEALOUS of and wish that the US had.
..........I am sure that others may disagree, but I find that MONEY usually tends to CORRUPT and that individuals in the upper 10% are often jerks.......like Jarad, Zuckerberg, Koch, Musk, and Jeff Bezos. Some people may idolize them, of course. But, obviously, I am NOT one of them!

Jealousy is not an attractive trait. You should work on that...

[MartinSE]

For example, when I watch a particular TV channel at 8 PM ........I get 10 minutes of his opinion piece. If I pay close attention, if find that he "fast-talks" quickly through some false statements (lies) while sprinkling in some real facts (truth).
.......If you pay attention, then the combination of 80% truth and 20% lies - is setting up a "big Picture" theme that is designed to plant the idea that the TV network (owned by some jerk British guy) wants the viewer to internalize. Thus, it is simply PROPAGANDA ! And it is designed to SLOWLY seep into the minds of the audience.
.........This TV channel is very successful at what it does. I am sure that their purpose is to WEAKEN the strong will of the Ameican people. What I and many other experts do NOT know is WHY they would WANT to DO such a terrible and unpatriotic thing...............best guess.....maybe it is for POWER that they MIGHT get if they succeeded at their US anarchy ??????????

Everyone agrees there is a lot of propaganda served up as "news" today. What is hard to agree on is which side is news and which side is propaganda.

I am going to go out on a limb and say both are propaganda.

And I am going to suggest, a thought experiment. And hope people will think and not just jump to the easy answer "the other guys". The experiment is, ask yourself WHO profits buy the destabilization of the US?

[MartinSE]

When your grandfather came to the US, the population was probably less than 200 million people. The US had the room and infrastructure to support them......THEN. Today our highways and bridges are falling apart and houses cost over $400,000.........that is due to OVERPOPULATION. So, today people are outraged at ILLEGALS entering the southern border. And many think that we need to turn down the faucet on EVEN legal immigration.
.....Hope that answers your question.

Well, I usually agree with you posts. This time I will take some exceptions.

1. Infrastructure is falling apart because it was built but never maintained. Everything used needs maintenance, and maintenance is expensive and not a sexy political issue. So, kick the can time.

2. Illegal immigrants have been used as a political kick toy for decades or longer - Google the "repatriate" movement sometime in the 1930's I think when the government rounded up all the illegals in buses and bused them back to Mexico. It could be solved, but neither party wants to solve it, because then they can't get the based **** off every 4 years.

[JMintzer]

Everyone agrees there is a lot of propaganda served up as "news" today. What is hard to agree on is which side is news and which side is propaganda.

I am going to go out on a limb and say both are propaganda.

And I am going to suggest, a thought experiment. And hope people will think and not just jump to the easy answer "the other guys". The experiment is, ask yourself WHO profits buy the destabilization of the US?

THEY do...

[jimjamuser]

Exhibit B...
For a free country, there is a lot of "brainwashing" going on here. People, in general, should be careful because it is affecting about 40% of US people. And there is an expression that may (?) apply here.....Doctor, heal thyself.

[jimjamuser]

Well, I usually agree with you posts. This time I will take some exceptions.

1. Infrastructure is falling apart because it was built but never maintained. Everything used needs maintenance, and maintenance is expensive and not a sexy political issue. So, kick the can time.

2. Illegal immigrants have been used as a political kick toy for decades or longer - Google the "repatriate" movement sometime in the 1930's I think when the government rounded up all the illegals in buses and bused them back to Mexico. It could be solved, but neither party wants to solve it, because then they can't get the based **** off every 4 years.
Well, my statements on immigration would have been different in the 1930s. We probably had only 130 million people here then. Now we have 350 million. I would guess that considering our science, technology, and tax structure designed to move wealth from the middle class into the upper class - that the US would be about ideal at 280 million people. So, we are currently over-populated, in my opinion. We would have less crime and a better quality of life.
.........Consider Switzerland .......they have tight control of their borders and, as such, have a much greater quality of life than the US. And the quality of life CAN be quantified and can be checked on world lists for such things.
..... thank you

[jimjamuser]

Well, my statements on immigration would have been different in the 1930s. We probably had only 130 million people here then. Now we have 350 million. I would guess that considering our science, technology, and tax structure designed to move wealth from the middle class into the upper class - that the US would be about ideal at 280 million people. So, we are currently over-populated, in my opinion. We would have less crime and a better quality of life.
.........Consider Switzerland .......they have tight control of their borders and, as such, have a much greater quality of life than the US. And the quality of life CAN be quantified and can be checked on world lists for such things.
..... thank you
As to the question of who profits from the destabilization of the US .....I would think that it is obvious........V. Putin.

[JMintzer]

For a free country, there is a lot of "brainwashing" going on here. People, in general, should be careful because it is affecting about 40% of US people. And there is an expression that may (?) apply here.....Doctor, heal thyself.

I'm brainwashed, but you're clear headed? :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[JMintzer]

Well, my statements on immigration would have been different in the 1930s. We probably had only 130 million people here then. Now we have 350 million. I would guess that considering our science, technology, and tax structure designed to move wealth from the middle class into the upper class - that the US would be about ideal at 280 million people. So, we are currently over-populated, in my opinion. We would have less crime and a better quality of life.
.........Consider Switzerland .......they have tight control of their borders and, as such, have a much greater quality of life than the US. And the quality of life CAN be quantified and can be checked on world lists for such things.
..... thank you

So we need less people? You first...

[jdulej]

So we need less people? You first...

We need MORE people. The problem is that some only want more if they are white. That ain’t happening as this country is seen as a step down to most white countries

[MartinSE]

Well, my statements on immigration would have been different in the 1930s. We probably had only 130 million people here then. Now we have 350 million. I would guess that considering our science, technology, and tax structure designed to move wealth from the middle class into the upper class - that the US would be about ideal at 280 million people. So, we are currently over-populated, in my opinion. We would have less crime and a better quality of life.
.........Consider Switzerland .......they have tight control of their borders and, as such, have a much greater quality of life than the US. And the quality of life CAN be quantified and can be checked on world lists for such things.
..... thank you

Well, as usual I mostly;y agree with you. but...

I don't know we are overpopulated, I think it might be more than we hav a huge uneducated populous. The dumbing down of America is well underway. But, I expect there are a lot of opinions about that.

As to Switzerland, there are maybe 14 or 15 other countries that are also much better off today than Americans. How far the great has fallen, and all the while we fight with each other constantly, which isn't helping matters.

Hmm, that pesky question keeps coming up - as Deep Throat said "Follow the Money"... or, who is profiting by US spending all our time fighting each other, instead of agreeing on what we can agree on, and fixing things.

I guess it is hard to sit down with people that eat children faces... ahem...

[Caymus]

We need MORE people. The problem is that some only want more if they are white. That ain’t happening as this country is seen as a step down to most white countries

Which "white" countries have more immigration?

[JMintzer]

We need MORE people. The problem is that some only want more if they are white. That ain’t happening as this country is seen as a step down to most white countries

https://c.tenor.com/X7ig_HaCqJIAAAAC/racist-that-seems-racist.gif

[jimjamuser]

I'm brainwashed, but you're clear headed? :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:
There you go!!!!!!!!! You have taken that IMPORTANT 1st step toward throwing off the terrible addiction of PROPAGANDA - that many in the US are suffering from.......congratulations on becoming a member of the propaganda anonymous club!

[jimjamuser]

Which "white" countries have more immigration?
Don't know, but it is NOT Sweden, Norway, Canada, Finland, and Switzerland. But also, in my opinion, the US is OVER-crowded (look at the roads and bridges). US population would be more ideal at about 250 million. The US can't fix its problems like RECORD fentanyl overdoses and record numbers of TEEN MENTAL problems. Washington is just divided and POWER hungry - not working together to fix the many problems - just inventing culture war problems.

[Stu from NYC]

There you go!!!!!!!!! You have taken that IMPORTANT 1st step toward throwing off the terrible addiction of PROPAGANDA - that many in the US are suffering from.......congratulations on becoming a member of the propaganda anonymous club!

3000 clubs here and this one is not for me.

[jimjamuser]

So we need less people? You first...
We should go together and have a vasectomy. And maybe that and tube tying should be a requirement for visas to the US. Let's INSPIRE a move toward 280 million US people as our goal. Just think of the great effect that it would have on GLOBAL WARMING.
........That way we would be LEADING the cause, not a mere teenage girl like Greta Thunberg! Come on America, you are better than a little teen girl from Sweden!

[jimjamuser]

Well, as usual I mostly;y agree with you. but...

I don't know we are overpopulated, I think it might be more than we hav a huge uneducated populous. The dumbing down of America is well underway. But, I expect there are a lot of opinions about that.

As to Switzerland, there are maybe 14 or 15 other countries that are also much better off today than Americans. How far the great has fallen, and all the while we fight with each other constantly, which isn't helping matters.

Hmm, that pesky question keeps coming up - as Deep Throat said "Follow the Money"... or, who is profiting by US spending all our time fighting each other, instead of agreeing on what we can agree on, and fixing things.

I guess it is hard to sit down with people that eat children faces... ahem...
That was a very good post. As to the "dumbing down of America"........I went to a VERY good PUBLIC school way back in the 60s. But thereafter Public schools were positioned by the rich and POWERFUL to FAIL. Everything goes back to tax policy and public schools are paid for by PROPERTY taxes. Who has the MOST PROPERTY....Why (?) surprise....... it is Rich people, who then manipulate the election of school boards - that then fight to lower costs, which causes bad public school outcomes. And thus the "dumbing down of America". Yes (!) correct, that is a major US problem today. We have many!
Lately, we have to fight even imagined problems. (also involving schools) (who knew schools had become s battleground). We are fighting culture wars conspiracy theories that are born in dark media places and by Putin's Russian trolls. Good luck LADY LIBERTY.....I hope you survive this CRUEL attack!

[jimjamuser]

3000 clubs here and this one is not for me.
That's good. Never become addicted to propaganda and you will never need rehabilitation. It's less costly that way.

[Stu from NYC]

That's good. Never become addicted to propaganda and you will never need rehabilitation. It's less costly that way.

Does appear we have a much different view on what is propaganda

[MartinSE]

Does appear we have a much different view on what is propaganda

And I don't think that is an accident.

Our intelligence services have been telling us for years, that Russian trolls are bombarding all our social media from both sides, intentionally stoking arguments and spreading conspiracies.

Some people relate to and accept one set, others accept the other side, and a fight breaks out.

Once upon a time we fought over polices over a beer. Now we fight about jewish space lasers online.

[JMintzer]

There you go!!!!!!!!! You have taken that IMPORTANT 1st step toward throwing off the terrible addiction of PROPAGANDA - that many in the US are suffering from.......congratulations on becoming a member of the propaganda anonymous club!

If anyone knows propaganda, it's you! You post it daily...

[JMintzer]

We should go together and have a vasectomy. And maybe that and tube tying should be a requirement for visas to the US. Let's INSPIRE a move toward 280 million US people as our goal. Just think of the great effect that it would have on GLOBAL WARMING.
........That way we would be LEADING the cause, not a mere teenage girl like Greta Thunberg! Come on America, you are better than a little teen girl from Sweden!

So you're for forced sterilization? And you like Wagner... I'm sensing a trend...

But as much as I'd like to have a "boys day out" with you, please keep my junk out of the conversation...

To paraphrase Will Smith, "Keep my Junk Outta' your M*****-F****** Mouth!"

[JMintzer]

That was a very good post. As to the "dumbing down of America"........I went to a VERY good PUBLIC school way back in the 60s. But thereafter Public schools were positioned by the rich and POWERFUL to FAIL. Everything goes back to tax policy and public schools are paid for by PROPERTY taxes. Who has the MOST PROPERTY....Why (?) surprise....... it is Rich people, who then manipulate the election of school boards - that then fight to lower costs, which causes bad public school outcomes. And thus the "dumbing down of America". Yes (!) correct, that is a major US problem today. We have many!
Lately, we have to fight even imagined problems. (also involving schools) (who knew schools had become s battleground). We are fighting culture wars conspiracy theories that are born in dark media places and by Putin's Russian trolls. Good luck LADY LIBERTY.....I hope you survive this CRUEL attack!

More Propaganda...

[Laker14]

There are two types of propaganda, the stuff you think is fact because it agrees with the propaganda you've decided is factual, and the stuff you recognize as propaganda, because it disagrees with what you believed before you heard it.
Unfortunately, all "news" falls into one of those two categories.
Or, put another way, freedom of the press means you get to choose which flavor of Kool-Aid you get to drink.

[Stu from NYC]

There are two types of propaganda, the stuff you think is fact because it agrees with the propaganda you've decided is factual, and the stuff you recognize as propaganda, because it disagrees with what you believed before you heard it.
Unfortunately, all "news" falls into one of those two categories.
Or, put another way, freedom of the press means you get to choose which flavor of Kool-Aid you get to drink.

Once upon a time the NY Times published all the news fit to print now it publishes all the news in a way they agree with.

[Keefelane66]

Once upon a time the NY Times published all the news fit to print now it publishes all the news in a way they agree with.
Just because print news doesn’t agree with your opinion doesn’t mean it’s Fake News.
Deja Vu I remember the Supreme Court ruling during Watergate. They aren’t Facebook.

[jdulej]

Once upon a time the NY Times published all the news fit to print now it publishes all the news in a way they agree with.
I hear this about the NYT a lot, but I've never seen any examples. Sure, they make mistakes, and usually own up to them, but in general they seem relatively honest to me. I'm referring to the actual news reports, not the opinion section which is, and should be, "opinionated".

I'd love to see some examples (beside the kid hassling and the Indian which I think they owned up to).

[Stu from NYC]

I hear this about the NYT a lot, but I've never seen any examples. Sure, they make mistakes, and usually own up to them, but in general they seem relatively honest to me. I'm referring to the actual news reports, not the opinion section which is, and should be, "opinionated".

I'd love to see some examples (beside the kid hassling and the Indian which I think they owned up to).

I would but than it might be construed as political so not going to go there.

However will say this. If you think of their leanings and than read the news articles there is a major similarity.

[jdulej]

I would but than it might be construed as political so not going to go there.

However will say this. If you think of their leanings and than read the news articles there is a major similarity.
Fair enough. I've been sent to the woodshed enough to be gun shy myself. What would be interesting though, if someone cares to give it a go, would be two news articles covering the same event. One from the times, one from a source considered to be of the opposite leaning but also a mainstream source of news. Then call out the skewed (left or right) parts from each source.
This supports my belief that you cannot get a true or fair picture of the "truth" without considering multiple sources.

[jimjamuser]

Does appear we have a much different view on what is propaganda
As the great poet and philosopher Confucius once said, "One man's Propaganda is another man's Truth". Maybe the History books of the FUTURE will reveal which of us was correct.
.........Note.....Marine Le Pen loved Propaganda and V.Putin and that American guy..........And the French Ravens said, "NEVERMORE"!!!!!!

[Laker14]

As the great poet and philosopher Confucius once said, "One man's Propaganda is another man's Truth". Maybe the History books of the FUTURE will reveal which of us was correct.

depends upon who writes the history books.
History is as dependent upon who gets to do the editing as a news outlet is.

What gets left out of the writing is often more telling than what gets put in.

[tvbound]

Fair enough. I've been sent to the woodshed enough to be gun shy myself. What would be interesting though, if someone cares to give it a go, would be two news articles covering the same event. One from the times, one from a source considered to be of the opposite leaning but also a mainstream source of news. Then call out the skewed (left or right) parts from each source.
This supports my belief that you cannot get a true or fair picture of the "truth" without considering multiple sources.


"This supports my belief that you cannot get a true or fair picture of the "truth" without considering multiple sources."

Agreed. All too many these days, are addicted to 'confirmation bias' and refuse to research and glean the real truth. That is the ugly side effect of professing fealty to a single viewpoint/person/group.

[jimjamuser]

And I don't think that is an accident.

Our intelligence services have been telling us for years, that Russian trolls are bombarding all our social media from both sides, intentionally stoking arguments and spreading conspiracies.

Some people relate to and accept one set, others accept the other side, and a fight breaks out.

Once upon a time we fought over polices over a beer. Now we fight about jewish space lasers online.
H....A....Y...........M....A......N....... MY Jewish Space Laser can kick your Laser's butt.

[jimjamuser]

If anyone knows propaganda, it's you! You post it daily...
Sounds like a little 3rd-grade child's statement, "No, YOU do too!

[jimjamuser]

So you're for forced sterilization? And you like Wagner... I'm sensing a trend...

But as much as I'd like to have a "boys day out" with you, please keep my junk out of the conversation...

To paraphrase Will Smith, "Keep my Junk Outta' your M*****-F****** Mouth!"
I was using EXAGGERATION to prove my point, which apparently I need to SPELL out. Biologists say that each animal species in a given location has a "HOLDING CAPACITY" (look it up)! My point is that humans in the US are above their HOLDING CAPACITY (probably by about 70 million people). I am NOT suggesting that 70 million people should "drink spiked Kool-aide" or march to the Ocean like Lemmings.
........Someone famous once wrote that WARS and PESTULANCE control the human population (when they exceed their holding capacity).
.........Now, just look at the recent world news. We HAVE (some think that it is over, past tense ...had) a worldwide Pandemic going on now......look at Shanghai, China (well past its holding capacity)! Now look at the WAR situation......many Military experts believe that we have already BEGUN WW3
.........Dictatorships reach out greedily for more resources and POWER, never satisfied!
..........I am not speaking about what IS (because what is ....is bad) I am idealistically speaking to our better angels about what COULD be! So, go ahead, call me a DREAMER......an outlier, a schemer.

[jimjamuser]

There are two types of propaganda, the stuff you think is fact because it agrees with the propaganda you've decided is factual, and the stuff you recognize as propaganda, because it disagrees with what you believed before you heard it.
Unfortunately, all "news" falls into one of those two categories.
Or, put another way, freedom of the press means you get to choose which flavor of Kool-Aid you get to drink.
Well put!

[jimjamuser]

Just because print news doesn’t agree with your opinion doesn’t mean it’s Fake News.
Deja Vu I remember the Supreme Court ruling during Watergate. They aren’t Facebook.
Facebook would be fine with some guard rails. and without Zuckerdingaling, who is a Dictator. The original concept was good, but it has the power to do "bad" things also.

[jimjamuser]

Propaganda originating from overseas trolls has branded the NYT as "fake news" through repetition and repetition by disgraced US leaders - such that some of the confused, chaos-loving unwashed Americans also echo it!

[jimjamuser]

Fair enough. I've been sent to the woodshed enough to be gun shy myself. What would be interesting though, if someone cares to give it a go, would be two news articles covering the same event. One from the times, one from a source considered to be of the opposite leaning but also a mainstream source of news. Then call out the skewed (left or right) parts from each source.
This supports my belief that you cannot get a true or fair picture of the "truth" without considering multiple sources.
TRUTH is harder to determine today than it was before social media. Facebook software is designed to keep each user on for as long as possible. They do this with software that LEADS them 1st to where the user WANTS to go - and THEN leads them down a rabbit hole to dark misinformation, propaganda, and conspiracy theory.
........Personally I HATE Zuckerdork and would NEVER be on Facebook!

[MartinSE]

I was using EXAGGERATION to prove my point, which apparently I need to SPELL out. Biologists say that each animal species in a given location has a "HOLDING CAPACITY" (look it up)! My point is that humans in the US are above their HOLDING CAPACITY (probably by about 70 million people). I am NOT suggesting that 70 million people should "drink spiked Kool-aide" or march to the Ocean like Lemmings.
........Someone famous once wrote that WARS and PESTULANCE control the human population (when they exceed their holding capacity).
.........Now, just look at the recent world news. We HAVE (some think that it is over, past tense ...had) a worldwide Pandemic going on now......look at Shanghai, China (well past its holding capacity)! Now look at the WAR situation......many Military experts believe that we have already BEGUN WW3
.........Dictatorships reach out greedily for more resources and POWER, never satisfied!
..........I am not speaking about what IS (because what is ....is bad) I am idealistically speaking to our better angels about what COULD be! So, go ahead, call me a DREAMER......an outlier, a schemer.

Here is a chart of world population over the past few thousand years. Prior to date at the start of this chart it is pretty much flat line.

Agriculture started around 10,000 years ago.

If you look at the chart, from 10,000 BCE to 8,000 BCE the population growth was essentially zero - very little. Around 8,000 BCE (I think) agriculture started and you can see a slight flow occurring. After that I think the chart is self explanatory.

From what I have read that is because that is the level of population the world could sustain with only hunter/gatherers. Once agriculture started, there is evidence that agriculture allow our brains to grow (more calories, it is needs more as it got bigger) and allow for people to start living longer and reproducing. More of the spawn survived, since they had more food - from there it is a normal exponential growth curve. With the past couple hundred years on the liftoff portion.

[JMintzer]

Sounds like a little 3rd-grade child's statement, "No, YOU do too!

Sorry, but you're talking about your own rants again (just trying to live up to your expectations...)

[JMintzer]

I was using EXAGGERATION to prove my point, which apparently I need to SPELL out. Biologists say that each animal species in a given location has a "HOLDING CAPACITY" (look it up)! My point is that humans in the US are above their HOLDING CAPACITY (probably by about 70 million people). I am NOT suggesting that 70 million people should "drink spiked Kool-aide" or march to the Ocean like Lemmings.
........Someone famous once wrote that WARS and PESTULANCE control the human population (when they exceed their holding capacity).
.........Now, just look at the recent world news. We HAVE (some think that it is over, past tense ...had) a worldwide Pandemic going on now......look at Shanghai, China (well past its holding capacity)! Now look at the WAR situation......many Military experts believe that we have already BEGUN WW3
.........Dictatorships reach out greedily for more resources and POWER, never satisfied!
..........I am not speaking about what IS (because what is ....is bad) I am idealistically speaking to our better angels about what COULD be! So, go ahead, call me a DREAMER......an outlier, a schemer.

I don't need you to SPELL out anything. You can't SPELL!

To the rest of your rant, seek help...

[jimjamuser]

I don't need you to SPELL out anything. You can't SPELL!

To the rest of your rant, seek help...
There is NO denying that we (the world) are currently embroiled in a toxic stew of war, pestilence, and Global Warming. At a minimum, I am being helpful by pointing this out and how it affects everyone here locally. Many are using this forum to restrict ideas and pretend that things are just "peachy".

[Stu from NYC]

There is NO denying that we (the world) are currently embroiled in a toxic stew of war, pestilence, and Global Warming. At a minimum, I am being helpful by pointing this out and how it affects everyone here locally. Many are using this forum to restrict ideas and pretend that things are just "peachy".

You do know that the earth has experienced many episodes of global warming I trust.

And mankind has had lots of wars in its history. And do not even get me started on the pestilence.

[JMintzer]

There is NO denying that we (the world) are currently embroiled in a toxic stew of war, pestilence, and Global Warming. At a minimum, I am being helpful by pointing this out and how it affects everyone here locally. Many are using this forum to restrict ideas and pretend that things are just "peachy".

https://c.tenor.com/k2wAIzvBouMAAAAd/shaq-inside-the-nba.gif

[thevillages2013]

Which definition would you prefer, Merriam-Webster's (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/immediate%20family) or the Code of Federal Regulations (1973) (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/29/780.308)?

Woke? It would seem you don't know the meaning of that word either.

You quote government regulations from 1973. I rest my case. Also I know what woke means and you just may fit that definition

[thevillages2013]

OMG I can’t believe this thread is still alive! Good behavior all! ( I guess)

[Bill14564]

Hey Mr Smart guy you might want to check your definition of immediate family. If you are so woke you should know the definition. It may have changed a little since the 1940’s:popcorn:

You quote government regulations from 1973. I rest my case. Also I know what woke means and you just may fit that definition

///

[MartinSE]

I thought we were not supposed to address replies to other posters, but to the entire thread. Hmmm....

[MartinSE]

You do know that the earth has experienced many episodes of global warming I trust.

And mankind has had lots of wars in its history. And do not even get me started on the pestilence.

No nikes before, and more than 99% of all species that every lived are now extinct, and more than 500 species have become extinct in the past 100 years do to mans affects on their habitats.

Just saying. The earth will be here long after man has gone, whether that is next year or in a thousand years.

[Stu from NYC]

No nikes before, and more than 99% of all species that every lived are now extinct, and more than 500 species have become extinct in the past 100 years do to mans affects on their habitats.

Just saying. The earth will be here long after man has gone, whether that is next year or in a thousand years.

Wonder how many species became extinct before we took over?

[fdpaq0580]

Wonder how many species became extinct before we took over?

Oh, at least 7 or 8, I would guess.
😏

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Wonder how many species became extinct before we took over?

And how long it took for that many to become extinct before we took over.

We can't prevent the planet from dying. That's what planets do. They die. But we can make the planet as livable as possible, for as long as possible, while we are inhabiting it. Or at least try to contribute as little as possible to its inevitable self-destruction.

[fdpaq0580]

And how long it took for that many to become extinct before we took over.

We can't prevent the planet from dying. That's what planets do. They die. But we can make the planet as livable as possible, for as long as possible, while we are inhabiting it. Or at least try to contribute as little as possible to its inevitable self-destruction.

That would require taking drastic changes to control population, and that is unlikely to happen.