How likely are you to purchase an Electric Vehicle?

[Tvflguy]

With all the news re Electric vehicles, how likely are YOU to purchase one? If not, why not?

For me, our 5 year old gas vehicle is perfectly fine for many many years. And at our tax rate cannot use any Tax Credit to lower price. But if our situation changed I would consider.

[retiredguy123]

Zero chance

[GpaVader]

I have had a Hybrid for 2 years now, and I have been happy with it. It's a Toyota Highlander and its the same drive train they use in all of their Hybrids. I get between 30-36 mpg and have been able to get about 500 miles on a tank of gas. Better in town than on the highway, as with most Hybrids. My biggest issue with Electric Vehicles has been range, they need to resolve this or find a faster way of charging a vehicle. If you plan to take a trip with an Electric Vehicle you will likely need to alter your driving habits. When we travel, we try to do Iron Butt, in other words we go until we get there with stops for gas, bio breaks and food, but we tend to eat in the car. Can't do that with an Electric, 300-400 miles stop and recharge. Depending on your recharge time you may only be able to do this a couple of times a day. It would also be nice to understand the cost and how long the batteries last as well. Still very new.

[gatorbill1]

Would only purchase if close to price of gas powered vehicles. Recently bought a Corolla Cross, which I love, and getting over 33mph.

[manaboutown]

A couple weeks ago I ordered a 2023 BMW X5 M50i which should be delivered in two or three months so not for a while. I need range and quick refueling so I am sticking with gasoline for now. Hybrids are a great option IMHO. My brother has had a Lexus R450h for a few years. He and his wife reside in Arizona and take long road trips all over the western US so this vehicle works out very well for them.

[Decadeofdave]

Zero chance.

[tophcfa]

For us to consider one, the following would need to apply:

- it would have to be economical relative to other options, including initial cost, fuel, and long term expenses including battery replacement, and expected service life
- it would need to have both the range and refueling speed of a gas vehicle as well as widespread availability of refueling locations when traveling
- it would need to have significant ground clearance, either 4WD or AWD capability, and the ability to tow a heavy load
- in the event the vehicle got stuck In traffic/congestion for extended periods of time, it would need to have the ability to run the HVAC system (heat or A/C) for extended periods of time without rapidly exhausting the fuel source
- any vehicle would never be considered with self driving features, electronic tracking devices, or other obnoxious electronic features that take control away from the vehicle operator
- it would have to be made by someone other than the Muskrat of Elon

So in conclusion, it appears there is a zero chance in my lifetime.

[Stu from NYC]

When we can drive say 600 miles and are confident we can charge battery as quickly as we can fill up with gas we might be a customer.

No patience on long trip to wait in line for a charge or wait for long time while fully charging

[Malsua]

I would purchase an EV, but only for local use. I know the "It's only an hour and you have to stop anyway on long trips" crowd doesn't find it an inconvenience to wait on a long trip, but it's not time I'm willing to waste.

It also wouldn't be the vehicle I would use if we ever get Hurricane evacuation. Yes, I know "but gas can't be had either in a hurricane" or "We never get bad hurricanes around here", both of which are predicated on poor planning and lack of respect for mother nature.

There is also the green that keep pushing for unreliable solar and wind, to the point that you get edicts like in California "don't charge your EV after you get home from work" or whatever.

I think they are great for local operation and the sheer lack of maintenance. There's also that whole toxic mining of Lithium thing going on that probably shouldn't be encouraged though.

[villagetinker]

I typically keep cars for several years, so an electric vehicle is out of the question until they come out with a universal battery. I have seen a couple of stories recently where the manufacturer decided to stop production of replacement batteries. I have a 1966 car that i can still get every part, most are new, a few NOS, and the rest used.

[billethkid]

When the EV support structure is as available as gasoline powered vehicles...

[bilcon]

My wife gets 35+ mpg on her Honda Fit. I still don't trust electric cars. I have been reading articles about what it takes to make the batteries. Disturbing, if true. Maybe in fifteen years when they have sufficient charging stations I might consider it. Whoops, 15 years, I won't be around, and if I am, I won't be driving.

[Keefelane66]

With all the news re Electric vehicles, how likely are YOU to purchase one? If not, why not?

For me, our 5 year old gas vehicle is perfectly fine for many many years. And at our tax rate cannot use any Tax Credit to lower price. But if our situation changed I would consider.
Currently I have a 2022 Toyota Carolla and can boast on out trip Villages to Westerly Ri 20 gallons of gas 1350 miles all highway 67.5 mpg. Consistently this summer traveling in New Enhland 65mpg. Probably our next vehicle will be a plugin hybrid. There are plenty of recharge stations all over.
If our world was just The Villages to Tampa and Orlando we would have just an EV.

[twoplanekid]

I purchased a new 2020 Honda CRV Hybrid touring that is a little bit heavy and large yet still gets about 37 to 39 miles per gallon of regular gas. There is no delay or hesitation when moving forward from a stop sign for the engine to start as it starts in electric mood.
All electric may be the future but not yet for me.

[Eg_cruz]

With all the news re Electric vehicles, how likely are YOU to purchase one? If not, why not?

For me, our 5 year old gas vehicle is perfectly fine for many many years. And at our tax rate cannot use any Tax Credit to lower price. But if our situation changed I would consider.
Most likely not, until they can come up with a better battery. Todays battery have recycling issues and the mining of cobalt is yet another issue

[dewilson58]

Better batteries, more competition, lower pricing needed first.

[mtdjed]

Electric Vehicles sound good but are not for everyone. Given the need, perhaps good for local transportation.

First, they are not "Green". To power you must plug into the Grid (Which is not free) and consume energy from the grid which is still only 17% sourced from renewable energy. Battery manufacturing is in its infancy and is not a clean process.

Second, there are sacrifices required to obtain maximum efficiencies. The Tesla model 3 is rated for 329 moles per charge. That is at 50 MPH and it falls to 238 at 70 MPH. It cannot pull a trailer, boat etc and still get the milage. Using AC, Heat, etc further reduces range.

Third, the infrastructure for recharging is not in place.

Read the attached EV1000 mile race for long distance experiences. Seems like a totally different travel experience.

I just traveled 1500 miles through GA, NC, VA, WV, MD, PA, NY, CN ,and MA. Several delays (1 @ 1Hour on the road). I stopped when personal needs. Filled up while stopped if needed. Never stopped specifically for fuel. Drove at 70 MPH or whatever speed limits were.

The EV 1000: 11 EVs Face Off in a Long-Distance Race (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a36877585/ev-1000-11-electric-cars-long-distance-race/)

[Michael G.]

It's to bad EV's doesn't have some kind of generator that generates electrical power back as the vehicle is driven
by a gas-powered engine or other way.

Even solar power would work to charge battery's here in sunny Florida.

[Lindsyburnsy]

Our Toyota hybrid allows you to either use or not use the automatic assist steering. We love our hybrid and will absolutely purchase a fully electric vehicle once our Toyota gets old.

[Lindsyburnsy]

For us to consider one, the following would need to apply:

- it would have to be economical relative to other options, including initial cost, fuel, and long term expenses including battery replacement, and expected service life
- it would need to have both the range and refueling speed of a gas vehicle as well as widespread availability of refueling locations when traveling
- it would need to have significant ground clearance, either 4WD or AWD capability, and the ability to tow a heavy load
- in the event the vehicle got stuck In traffic/congestion for extended periods of time, it would need to have the ability to run the HVAC system (heat or A/C) for extended periods of time without rapidly exhausting the fuel source
- any vehicle would never be considered with self driving features, electronic tracking devices, or other obnoxious electronic features that take control away from the vehicle operator
- it would have to be made by someone other than the Muskrat of Elon

So in conclusion, it appears there is a zero chance in my lifetime.
Our Toyota hybrid allows you to either use or not use the automatic assist steering. We love our hybrid and will absolutely purchase a fully electric vehicle when our current Toyota needs to be replaced. It's not just about us, it's also about the environment.

[La lamy]

My next car will probably be a hybrid, but I'm pampering my 19 yr old for as long as I can.

[Aces4]

Our Toyota hybrid allows you to either use or not use the automatic assist steering. We love our hybrid and will absolutely purchase a fully electric vehicle when our current Toyota needs to be replaced. It's not just about us, it's also about the environment.

Have you done any comprehensive, unbiased reading regarding the true environmental impact of electronic vehicles, their batteries and disposal, required elements for the batteries, creation and disposal of solar panels, turbines and so forth? America can be lazy when it comes to research. Also, the biggest polluters will still be operating. For example, I don’t believe you’ll see many electric earth movers.

[Djean1981]

We have a plug-in hybrid, the best of both worlds. If just running around the villages, it stays on electric. But we can still take a long road trip without the need to charge.

[manaboutown]

Our Toyota hybrid allows you to either use or not use the automatic assist steering. We love our hybrid and will absolutely purchase a fully electric vehicle when our current Toyota needs to be replaced. It's not just about us, it's also about the environment.

Developing countries pay environmental cost of electric car batteries | UNCTAD (https://unctad.org/news/developing-countries-pay-environmental-cost-electric-car-batteries)

‘Like slave and master’: DRC miners toil for 30p an hour to fuel electric cars | Africa | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/nov/08/cobalt-drc-miners-toil-for-30p-an-hour-to-fuel-electric-cars)

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5996f73a49fc2b25db3a28ed/t/60e572096c0d015ae5585238/1625649682650/20210627+-+The+Wire+China+-+China%27s+Stake+in+Africas+Mines.pdf

[PugMom]

Zero chance

Dittos

[starflyte1]

zero chance

[Keefelane66]

It's to bad EV's doesn't have some kind of generator that generates electrical power back as the vehicle is driven
by a gas-powered engine or other way.

Even solar power would work to charge battery's here in sunny Florida.
Then it would be a hybrid. motor, battery with regenerative breaking

[OrangeCrush]

Hubs isn't keen on it at this time, but we may consider a good used hybrid if we found one. Our two previous neighbors each have a Tesla and love them, but one of them who travels a lot pointed out that there's things to consider: 1) Electricity and costs to 'fuel' your baby, 2) When electricity goes out for a few days, you need a generator (whole-house or portable) or solar energy (may need to get a battery to store some energy, especially during days of little or no sun), and 3) Taking long trips requires planning. It takes our neighbor 3-4 days to get up to Denver, CO because he needs to find an EV post to plug into along the way. Around town and short trips are a breeze. There's also consideration for old battery disposal, but that's another issue. We love our F-150 Ford Lariat diesel truck, and she gets awesome fuel mileage...600 miles until fill up (30 mpg highway) (27-28 mpg in town).

[Velvet]

Out of the question at this time. Way too much trouble.

[Stu from NYC]

Currently I have a 2022 Toyota Carolla and can boast on out trip Villages to Westerly Ri 20 gallons of gas 1350 miles all highway 67.5 mpg. Consistently this summer traveling in New Enhland 65mpg. Probably our next vehicle will be a plugin hybrid. There are plenty of recharge stations all over.
If our world was just The Villages to Tampa and Orlando we would have just an EV.

Didnt know gasoline engines would yield 65 mpg. My 2021 camry will get up to 40 mpg on straight highway driving and happy with that

[Tvflguy]

Then it would be a hybrid. motor, battery with regenerative breaking

Ditto for us, the Op. If our 2015 small SUV Mecedes with 32k miles had issues or such would definitely go for a dependable plug-in hybrid. Mid size SUV type. Best of both worlds IMO. And with 80% of our driving being 25 miles or under …perfect. Only issue would be to ensure we’d drive more sometime in order for the engine to run a lot so the gas in tank doesn’t get stale.

We had a non-plug in Prius for 5 years before 2015, great little car and so dependable but we needed a bit more room.

[tophcfa]

Better batteries, more competition, lower pricing needed first.

Dewi, good to see your back buddie : )

Was hoping you were just taking a break from TOTV and didn’t have a health issue.

[Keefelane66]

Didnt know gasoline engines would yield 65 mpg. My 2021 camry will get up to 40 mpg on straight highway driving and happy with that
I'm sorry didn't mention it is a Hybrid

[ex34449]

With all the news re Electric vehicles, how likely are YOU to purchase one? If not, why not?

For me, our 5 year old gas vehicle is perfectly fine for many many years. And at our tax rate cannot use any Tax Credit to lower price. But if our situation changed I would consider.

EV? I'll be long gone before they become practical for my needs but I'm looking at a larger Hybrid.

[MrFlorida]

Nope, too expensive and sitting at a charging station does not appeal to me.

[Blueblaze]

Sorry, I guess I'm not rich enough to waste a space in my garage for a status symbol that takes a week to drive to my kids in Missouri because of the 200 mile range, and has a life span of ten years due to the 2,000 pound battery that comprises a quarter of the value of the vehicle.

I'm also not wild about sleeping in the same house where a gigantic lithium battery is being charged at a higher rate of energy usage than an electric oven with all the burners on.

[Garywt]

Slim to none. Can’t drive from MA to FL and for our other vehicle, can’t tow our camper more than maybe 150 miles.

[rjm1cc]

Most of my driving is in an electric vehicle - a golf cart. When my car reaches the end of its life I would consider one as long as I was only doing local driving. I think the breakeven carbon footprint is about 100,000 miles due to the manufacturing of the batteries. Thus my gas car is probably actually better for the environment than an electric would be. Would be nice to see some research on this. Remember a lot of our current electric has a carbon footprint.

[Dusty_Star]

Electric Vehicles sound good but are not for everyone. Given the need, perhaps good for local transportation.

First, they are not "Green". To power you must plug into the Grid (Which is not free) and consume energy from the grid which is still only 17% sourced from renewable energy. Battery manufacturing is in its infancy and is not a clean process.

Second, there are sacrifices required to obtain maximum efficiencies. The Tesla model 3 is rated for 329 moles per charge. That is at 50 MPH and it falls to 238 at 70 MPH. It cannot pull a trailer, boat etc and still get the milage. Using AC, Heat, etc further reduces range.

Third, the infrastructure for recharging is not in place.

Read the attached EV1000 mile race for long distance experiences. Seems like a totally different travel experience.

I just traveled 1500 miles through GA, NC, VA, WV, MD, PA, NY, CN ,and MA. Several delays (1 @ 1Hour on the road). I stopped when personal needs. Filled up while stopped if needed. Never stopped specifically for fuel. Drove at 70 MPH or whatever speed limits were.

The EV 1000: 11 EVs Face Off in a Long-Distance Race (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a36877585/ev-1000-11-electric-cars-long-distance-race/)
Great article (pretty funny in spots). Thanks!

[ohioshooter]

A couple weeks ago I ordered a 2023 BMW X5 M50i which should be delivered in two or three months so not for a while. I need range and quick refueling so I am sticking with gasoline for now. Hybrids are a great option IMHO. My brother has had a Lexus R450h for a few years. He and his wife reside in Arizona and take long road trips all over the western US so this vehicle works out very well for them.

I would love a new X5 but not an M50. The 40 would be a better choice for me, I also have a M850i. It satisfies my need for power.

[manaboutown]

I would love a new X5 but not an M50. The 40 would be a better choice for me, I also have a M850i. It satisfies my need for power.

The M850i is a fantastic car. 523 HP V8. 0 to 60 in 3.3 to 3.5 secs. Under 12 sec quarter mile. I'll bet you enjoy it!

Having owned a 2017 X5 50i since December 2016 and really enjoying it when I test drove a 2022 M50i I did not expect as much improvement as I experienced. I am now finding it difficult to wait as driving the new one spoiled me. lol

[TSO/ISPF]

With all the news re Electric vehicles, how likely are YOU to purchase one? If not, why not?

For me, our 5 year old gas vehicle is perfectly fine for many many years. And at our tax rate cannot use any Tax Credit to lower price. But if our situation changed I would consider.

A credit will get you money back from the government if your taxes are lower than the credit value. Are you thinking tax "deduction". That requires you pay that much in taxes, not a credit.

[ohioshooter]

The M850i is a fantastic car. 523 HP V8. 0 to 60 in 3.3 to 3.5 secs. Under 12 sec quarter mile. I'll bet you enjoy it!

Having owned a 2017 X5 50i since December 2016 and really enjoying it when I test drove a 2022 M50i I did not expect as much improvement as I experienced. I am now finding it difficult to wait as driving the new one spoiled me. lol

I don’t want to hijack this thread but yes I’m enjoying it. I do think though that an EV is in my future. My long distance traveling days are pretty much over. We were snow birds for 12 years and moved here full time so we wouldn’t have to make that 1200 mile trip. Living in the bubble is a perfect place for an EV.

[kcrazorbackfan]

Nope. Same reason we’ll never get an electric cart - the range of it.

[retiredguy123]

In my opinion, this is a no brainer. From a cost standpoint, there is no evidence that buying and owning an electric vehicle will save any money at all. Rather, it will probably cost you more money. If you are concerned about the environment, there doesn't seem to be any clear cut evidence that buying an electric vehicle will do anything to improve the environment, because making and disposing of the batteries will do substantial harm to the environment. Also, other countries aren't on board with with any of this environment saving endeavor. It seems to me that, if you really want to help the environment, then why not just buy a smaller car, drive less, and stay off of airplanes? And, if you are a snowbird why not sell one of your houses and only live in one of them? I don't hear anyone promoting the concept of just using less energy. There are lots of ways to reduce your carbon footprint, without buying an electric vehicle. The idea that electric vehicles are the answer to saving the environment is ridiculous.

I'm not suggesting that anyone do any of these things, but they would be a lot more effective than buying an electric vehicle. End of rant.

[Dotneko]

Zero chance

[tophcfa]

The M850i is a fantastic car. 523 HP V8. 0 to 60 in 3.3 to 3.5 secs. Under 12 sec quarter mile.

Dam, and I thought the in-line 6 cylinder 3.0 liter 24 valve double overhead cam E46 engine in my 2005 330CI had good power. That thing would leave me in the dust and must be a blast to drive.

[Northwoods]

I bought a new car this year and it's not electric or even a hybrid.
But I have a friend that has a Tesla and I lust after that car. It reminds me of a bunch of young brilliant engineers who created a really fun car.
I also struggle with the range of a Tesla and believe it's not practical for a long-distance journey.
So I don't think it's for me. But I still lust after that Tesla.

[Chi-Town]

Like it or not, time is running out on the combustion engine.

These Are the Car Brands That Are Going All-Electric (https://www.gearpatrol.com/cars/g38986745/car-brands-going-electric/)

[threeonemiles@outlook.com]

Don't be too sure.

[jswirs]

With all the news re Electric vehicles, how likely are YOU to purchase one? If not, why not?

For me, our 5 year old gas vehicle is perfectly fine for many many years. And at our tax rate cannot use any Tax Credit to lower price. But if our situation changed I would consider.

We have the perfect hybrid which works for us, a Chrysler Pacifica plug in hybrid. It has a range of about 30 miles on full battery. Great for local driving which is about 99% of our drive time. Seamlessly switches to gasoline when battery is depleted, range of over 500 miles on gasoline. I have gone for several months driving on battery only, as I say, for local driving. LOVE IT.

[Two Bills]

I love my old Volvo, which will probably outlast me, so I will not buy another car.
But.
Had a lift once in a friends Tesla and he floored it from a standstill.
I have never been shot into space, but would imagine the G Force is about the same.
Phenomenal acceleration. No wheel spin, just instant speed.
Amazed and loved it!
If however, I was in the market for a new car, I would definitely buy electric.
Like it or not, the future is here.

[Viperguy]

Where do the batteries come from? How to dispose of them? How is the electricity generated to charge them? Save the planet? Ya right!

[Vikingjunior]

I think it's dangerous to not be able to hear a car. I'm not talking Harley Davidson loud but I want people to be able to hear me coming and I want to be able to hear people coming. I can see accident statistics rising especially in large cities.
Also people who live in apartments, condos, condominiums will still need to constantly go to a charging station.
interest rates going up and electric cars already being expensive is not a good formula.
By the way there is a chip shortage further adding to the chaos of electric cars.

This whole thing has been one big rush job and is not going to be a smooth transition.

[jswirs]

ingjunior;2124055]I think it's dangerous to not be able to hear a car. I'm not talking Harley Davidson loud but I want people to be able to hear me coming and I want to be able to hear people coming. I can see accident statistics rising especially in large cities. [/B]
Also people who live in apartments, condos, condominiums will still need to constantly go to a charging station.
interest rates going up and electric cars already being expensive is not a good formula.
By the way there is a chip shortage further adding to the chaos of electric cars.

This whole thing has been one big rush job and is not going to be a smooth transition.
My Chrysler Pacifica has a low "humming" sound when it is driven less than 22 mph, audible enough to hear easily.

[Southwest737]

Own two Teslas and two electric EZGOs. Won’t buy another antiquated ICE vehicle.

[Gunny2403]

Bought a new Tesla Y 2 years ago. It was a Lemon with too many issues to note here. Sold it 7 weeks after purchase. Took a loss. Glad to be rid of it.

[skippy05]

I purchased an all-electric Hyundai Ioniq 5 four months ago. I didn't do so because of environmental concerns. I'm over the prices at the gas pump. My electric bill increased by around 30 a month. I have 324 miles range on a full charge. It looks better than most gas cars and I can carry a good amount of cargo in the large hatch. The back seat is larger than most cars. I have a 7500 tax credit I can use next year. The car was 45k. The car comes with rear air conditioning vents which many cars today do not have. I bought the adapter which converts the car into a huge battery backup power source for a single 15 AMP in case of a hurricane: I can run my refrigerator and various lights in my house off an extension cord for days, not hours. With my normal driving habits, I only charge the car on my level 2 at-home charger once every 3 days to top it back off. The car does not heat up my garage when I bring it back home because there is no hot engine cooling down for hours in an already hot garage. This car is more than suitable for 99% of Villagers driving habits.

[frose]

With all the news re Electric vehicles, how likely are YOU to purchase one? If not, why not?

For me, our 5 year old gas vehicle is perfectly fine for many many years. And at our tax rate cannot use any Tax Credit to lower price. But if our situation changed I would consider. never!!!! Too woke for me

[Altavia]

Nope. Same reason we’ll never get an electric cart - the range of it.

Prototypes are on the road with range over 700mi.

New EV Prototype Leaves Range Anxiety in the Dust
Mercedes-Benz’s Vision EQXX completed a record-breaking 747-mile run in May

New EV Prototype Leaves Range Anxiety in the Dust - Rodina News (https://rodinanews.co.uk/news/new-ev-prototype-leaves-range-anxiety-in-the-dust/65976/#:~:text=The%20Mercedes-Benz%20Vision%20EQXX%2C%20and%20its%20showroom-bound%20tech%2C,in%20Cassis%2C%20France%20with%20b attery%20juice%20to%20spare).

[davefin]

I can't for the life of me understand why this Government of ours didn't put all its money into a greater development of hybrid autos. This would have been an easier way to wean off gasoline and buy us 10 or 15 years to develop an electric grid for the US that makes sense!

[Bay Kid]

Maybe I'll consider one when all government agencies have electric cars? Nope. Close as I will get is my Hybrid Avalon at 50mpg or my 550i at 28mpg. I can drive either one over 500 miles on a tank and fill up along the way in less than 5 minutes.

[HawkinsGuy]

We have the perfect hybrid which works for us, a Chrysler Pacifica plug in hybrid. It has a range of about 30 miles on full battery. Great for local driving which is about 99% of our drive time. Seamlessly switches to gasoline when battery is depleted, range of over 500 miles on gasoline. I have gone for several months driving on battery only, as I say, for local driving. LOVE IT.

I agree. We have a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV) with an all electric range of about 33 miles. We never use gas during our daily trips within The Villages and when it switches over to a hybrid on long trips , we get very good MPG. On top of it, the SUV has 362 horsepower so it’s pretty zippy on open roads. It also has a towing capacity of 2,000 lbs if needed. It charges on the level 2 charger in our garage from 0 -33 in about 2 1/2 hours so it never is left charging overnight. As an added bonus, the car is very comfortable, is all-wheel drive so it handles well and for an SUV, it’s fun to drive. For our lifestyle, an EV is not practical since the range of an EV is not good - our PHEV checks all of our boxes. If the range of an EV gets to 450 - 500 miles per charge or can get down to about 5 minutes to fully charge we will consider an EV.

[Blackbird45]

Competition will force companies to make improvements and bring down the cost. States and entrepreneurs will invest in charging stations. I personally would buy an EV for the convenience. I don't drive 250 miles a day, the mere fact that I would have a car sitting in my garage ready to go and never have to go to a gas station is a dream.

[Villages Kahuna]

Very likely.

[TheWarriors]

Let’s see: No dirty gas stations and no oil changes ever, almost no maintenance.

Tesla Model 3 Performance: 0-60 in 3.1 seconds, AWD, seats 4 and room for real luggage.

Chevrolet Corvette: 0-60 in 2.9 seconds, rear wheel drive, seats 2 and room for an overnight bag.

If you are into performance, there is no question electric is the choice. Yes, some drawbacks w charging on a long trip but most people take a plane for extended travel or just plan accordingly, especially if you’re retired w no clocks to dictate life.

Most Villagers are likely not EV future customers as old people generally are resistant to change of any type. It’s hard for them to leave the “I remember when a Hershey bar was a nickel” mode of thinking. Regardless of green thinking, once you drive one you understand clearly the future has arrived and it is electric.

[Keefelane66]

I can't for the life of me understand why this Government of ours didn't put all its money into a greater development of hybrid autos. This would have been an easier way to wean off gasoline and buy us 10 or 15 years to develop an electric grid for the US that makes sense!
It costs about $16 for one kilogram of hydrogen gas. However, Toyota gives all Mirai owners a hydrogen gas card that has $15,000 on it. That’s about three years of hydrogen gas covered by Toyota that you don’t have to pay for!
Now the infrastructure each fueling station would need a pressurised tank and pump. Much like propane stations aren't on every street corner. Distribution of electricity for charging is virtually on every street.
Driving the Toyota Mirai: My Hydrogen Fuel Cell Car Experience (https://climate-xchange.org/2021/09/17/driving-the-toyota-mirai-my-hydrogen-fuel-cell-car-experience/#:~:text=It%20costs%20about%20%2416%20for,t%20have %20to%20pay%20for)!

[threeonemiles@outlook.com]

Uhmmmm. Never?

[srswans]

For us to consider one, the following would need to apply:

- it would have to be economical relative to other options, including initial cost, fuel, and long term expenses including battery replacement, and expected service life
- it would need to have both the range and refueling speed of a gas vehicle as well as widespread availability of refueling locations when traveling
- it would need to have significant ground clearance, either 4WD or AWD capability, and the ability to tow a heavy load
- in the event the vehicle got stuck In traffic/congestion for extended periods of time, it would need to have the ability to run the HVAC system (heat or A/C) for extended periods of time without rapidly exhausting the fuel source
- any vehicle would never be considered with self driving features, electronic tracking devices, or other obnoxious electronic features that take control away from the vehicle operator
- it would have to be made by someone other than the Muskrat of Elon

So in conclusion, it appears there is a zero chance in my lifetime.

All new cars have obnoxious electronics - gas and electric. I’m thinking of buying a good, 20 year old vehicle and fixing it up.

[Stu from NYC]

I can't for the life of me understand why this Government of ours didn't put all its money into a greater development of hybrid autos. This would have been an easier way to wean off gasoline and buy us 10 or 15 years to develop an electric grid for the US that makes sense!

They should have done more to encourage this as it gave us 50 mpg.

[irishwonone]

With all the news re Electric vehicles, how likely are YOU to purchase one? If not, why not?

For me, our 5 year old gas vehicle is perfectly fine for many many years. And at our tax rate cannot use any Tax Credit to lower price. But if our situation changed I would consider.
Not in my lifetime. Yet for those who do I’m happy for them.

[Ptmckiou]

We just bought a Lexus 450h (hybrid). Absolutely love it. Sometimes it’s full time electric and others it’s a combination of gas and electric. We will never go back to just gas.

[rsmurano]

If I drive to the villages, where am I going to charge an EV? None of the major hotels have chargers! My lifestyle rental won’t have a charger! I have friends with EV’s and they have stopped at a charging station on trips and they were the 3rd in line for a charger. So if each person takes 40-60 mins to charge and then it takes you 40 mins a charge, you are sitting at a charger for 3-4 hours. Read the automobile magazines that took an EV across the country, all they did was to stare at the computer to make sure they are going the route where a charger will be located. I couldn’t travel like that. I get upset if I’m 3rd in line to get gas and it takes a few mins for each person to fill up their tank.
Who will work on your EV? If you break down in a smaller city while traveling across country, who will touch your EV? You will have to tow it to a larger city.
When you can charge an EV in the same time it takes to fill up your car, when chargers are accessible as gas stations, when all mechanics will work on the EV, and when an EV will cost the same as a gas car, then I will look at one

[Two Bills]

Posters keep banging on about the size, number, range etc. of present electric car batteries.
The whole setup is still practically in its research stage.
Doesn't anyone remember the size and life expectancy of the old battery torches, phones, radios etc?
Great big things, lucky to last a day or a night.
Now I have a torch that will burn you eyes out powered by a battery the size of a pea, and good for a year!
Car power packs will evolve just the same way.
Same old argument being used like the "It will never replace horses" opponents of steam engines, and ICE.

[srswans]

With all the news re Electric vehicles, how likely are YOU to purchase one? If not, why not?

For me, our 5 year old gas vehicle is perfectly fine for many many years. And at our tax rate cannot use any Tax Credit to lower price. But if our situation changed I would consider.

I just bought a new gas vehicle so it will be awhile but my next car will be electric. EVs are fast, quiet and zero emissions. True, fossil fuels will be used (partially) to charge it but still a lower net carbon footprint than gas.

I don’t tow and I will have a gas vehicle for road trips.

I leased an EV in 2014 for commuting and only had three range anxiety events in those two years. Note that this EV had a range of 85 miles (35 in winter). I saved $100/month in gas and had a 220v charger in my garage. Yes, it was a fast and fun car.

I leased back then because the tech was so new. I am not worried about the price of battery replacement - for me, even $10K at the 10 year point is reasonable. EVs need very little maintenance (i.e., no oil changes) so I’ll be saving money those 10 years.

The industry needs to work on a comprehensive plan for battery reuse (which will probably be as storage for solar panels) and build out the charging infrastructure. We’ll get there.

[Berwin]

100% chance. One of my sons has had a Toyota Prius for over 10 years and still no issues with the battery. He did get his catalytic converter stolen, though. For long trips, we will use our RV and tow our Jeep as usual.

[merrymini]

I owned a Tesla 3. Great car. You would plan long distance trips and for the most part, there are plenty of quick chargers. You can charge about 170 miles in about 20 minutes. I also own a Prius, this is my third, and I remember everybody being afraid of the batteries. I get about 55 miles to the gallon, terrific car. By the way, demand is so great I sold my used Tesla for a profit. Everything has a waste issue but the advantage of the electric is no emissions. That being said, until the battery technology improves, all electric is not feasible.

[Joe C.]

I don't plan on buying electric. Have you seen how dangerous lithium batteries are? FIRE HAZARDS ...... I've seen videos of charging stations where the cars are parked side by side and plugged in. Suddenly one bursts into flames, and within seconds, the car next to it catches fire, as do the rest down the line. And once it catches fire, it's almost impossible to put it out.


So, I don't plan on having one in my garage, plugged in overnight.

Forget the fact that they are expensive, and cause more pollution just making the batteries for them. Then there is the expended battery disposal issue ..... nobody wants them.
And then, there's the part that everybody forgets about, and that is the amount of money the state and Uncle Sam makes off of the gasoline tax. As soon as the revenue from the gas tax drops, guess who is going to get another whopping tax increase?
I think that I'll stick with my gasoline engine.

[srswans]

In my opinion, this is a no brainer. From a cost standpoint, there is no evidence that buying and owning an electric vehicle will save any money at all. Rather, it will probably cost you more money. If you are concerned about the environment, there doesn't seem to be any clear cut evidence that buying an electric vehicle will do anything to improve the environment, because making and disposing of the batteries will do substantial harm to the environment. Also, other countries aren't on board with with any of this environment saving endeavor. It seems to me that, if you really want to help the environment, then why not just buy a smaller car, drive less, and stay off of airplanes? And, if you are a snowbird why not sell one of your houses and only live in one of them? I don't hear anyone promoting the concept of just using less energy. There are lots of ways to reduce your carbon footprint, without buying an electric vehicle. The idea that electric vehicles are the answer to saving the environment is ridiculous.

I'm not suggesting that anyone do any of these things, but they would be a lot more effective than buying an electric vehicle. End of rant.

Yeah, buying EV probably won’t save you money in the long run - close to break even I suspect.

It will be better for carbon emissions though, even accounting for the manufacturing footprint. Gas cars also have a large manufacturing and maintenance (oil) footprint.

Batteries are likely to be reused in the future which is better than recycling.

I strongly agree with your suggestion that we all should cut down on energy use. No one talks about this enough.

[Pachine58]

No, the technology is not there. The infrastructure is not there.
The batteries are so toxic and no way to dispose of them plus the cost of replacement.

[ThirdOfFive]

With all the news re Electric vehicles, how likely are YOU to purchase one? If not, why not?

For me, our 5 year old gas vehicle is perfectly fine for many many years. And at our tax rate cannot use any Tax Credit to lower price. But if our situation changed I would consider.
Two answers to that. No way and no how.

Two reasons. First, the Rav4 still has close to 40,000 miles left on a bumper-to-bumper warranty and we get 40 MPG on the highway. AND we own it.

Second, I'm not a fan of the eco bee ess surrounding electric vehicles. That electricity comes from somewhere and if people knew just where, there'd be a lot less of them tooling around in an electric vehicle. Well over three fifths of our electricity is generated by burning fossil fuels. Nuclear is 18.9%. Barely a fifth of our electricity is generated by renewables and a lot of that consists of burning wood, landfill gas and municipal solid waste.

[psgolf@comcast.net]

Zero chance also

[Vermilion Villager]

My Tesla has about 300 miles range. I can charge it every night if I wished (I don't) so I know I will always have a full tank every morning. I use this vehicle for about 95% of my driving. I do have another vehicle that has gas powered and I suppose if I felt the need I would use that for a longer trip.

[NoMo50]

I won't even buy an electric golf cart, let alone a full size vehicle. Yes, advancements have and are being made with EVs. But, at this time they are still not ready for prime time. I doubt we will see the necessary infrastructure to support wide scale EV use in my lifetime.

And please, don't be fooled into thinking you're saving the planet. A better question to ask is: Cui Bono...who benefits? If an EV fits your lifestyle, and makes you happy, that's great. For me, it's a non-starter.

[obxgal]

Zero chance.

[Caymus]

Probably if I live long enough. When will the self-driving cars be available?

[terenceanne]

Down the road I would consider it but for now the technology and infrastructure is not there as others have pointed out. Since the engine has virtual no moving parts the manufacturers could built it for half the price - but as always there's profit to be made by charging more for less.

[tophcfa]

I think it's dangerous to not be able to hear a car. I'm not talking Harley Davidson loud but I want people to be able to hear me coming and I want to be able to hear people coming. I can see accident statistics rising especially in large cities.
Also people who live in apartments, condos, condominiums will still need to constantly go to a charging station.
interest rates going up and electric cars already being expensive is not a good formula.
By the way there is a chip shortage further adding to the chaos of electric cars.

This whole thing has been one big rush job and is not going to be a smooth transition.

You are very correct about the dangers of not being able to hear electric cars. My older brother is blind and he hates electric cars because he can’t hear them coming and has had several close encounters. His guide dog has saved his life more than once pulling him from the path of an electric car he never heard coming toward him.

[tophcfa]

All new cars have obnoxious electronics - gas and electric. I’m thinking of buying a good, 20 year old vehicle and fixing it up.

One of the primary reasons used car prices have gone through the roof.

[Blackbird45]

Beside climate change it would be nice not to bend the knee to Saudi Arabia every time there is an oil shortage. National security.

[jpvillager]

Had a 2006 Highlander Hybrid and loved it. Repair parts were expensive. Toyota is the expert. Would like another Highlander but my wife can't get in it. Remember hurricane evacuations? Hybrids were the only ones that fared well in the "stopped" traffic. We have been snow birds for 15 years. Now have a 2017 gas CRV. Gets 30 - 36 mpg. Good enough for me. Would only consider an hybrid and not an Ev.

[biker1]

No. The battery is the most costly item.

Down the road I would consider it but for now the technology and infrastructure is not there as others have pointed out. Since the engine has virtual no moving parts the manufacturers could built it for half the price - but as always there's profit to be made by charging more for less.

[SHIBUMI]

Will the credit apply to electric golf cars?




No. The battery is the most costly item.

[OhioBuckeye]

I’m perfectly fine with my gas car. These EV’s are to high tech & I just don’t think the dealers are telling us about all of the expenses that goes with them. I think they’re telling us just what we want to hear. But if you know anyone that has one talk to them & talk to them about all the charging expenses & maintenance expenses. They’re not cheap to purchase or maintain. Like you I’ll stay with my $5. a gal gas car. Most of us only hear how fun & cheap EV’s are.

[WingedFoot78]

Consider the fact that you may be stuck on I-95 in traffic and your battery is dead. Will AAA come out with some sort of charging equipment? A 300 mile range on a gas powered car is better than the same distance in an electric vehicle. Five minutes in a gas station and you're on your way again. How long does it take to fully recharge an electric?

[B-flat]

I’m perfectly fine with my gas car. These EV’s are to high tech & I just don’t think the dealers are telling us about all of the expenses that goes with them. I think they’re telling us just what we want to hear. But if you know anyone that has one talk to them & talk to them about all the charging expenses & maintenance expenses. They’re not cheap to purchase or maintain. Like you I’ll stay with my $5. a gal gas car. Most of us only hear how fun & cheap EV’s are.

Zero chance here of buying an EV. I'm fine with my gas-powered Chrysler Pacifica Mini Van. I get 23 to 27 MPG around town. During our trips to and from New England I get 33 MPG.

I'm hoping I'll be dead by the time these cars are forced down our throats.

[OhioBuckeye]

Thank you, you put it in a nutshell. Most of us are to gullible because we think the dealers tell us everything. I think most of the new EV’s are totally electric. Also like one gentleman here said he gets 170 miles on a 20 min. charge. I travel across country 2 or 3 times a yr. With most of the new EV’s. they only go 300 miles on a charge, how long will it take to charge my car & wonder if there’s 4 or 5 cars ahead of me to get there EV charged. I’ll take me a week to get where I’m going. To quick charge an EV you probably cut you battery life in half. Then you have to buy another $15,000. battery plus battery disposal. If you still think they’re great get a 2nd mortgage on your home. EV’s are to expensive for most, but if you can afford one, that’s great but I can’t!

[tonycirocco@me.com]

Djean; Please give more details about your plug-in hybrid.

Most people are ni familiar with them.
Tony

[Two Bills]

Given some of the replies on this thread, many posters seem to mourn the passing of the Stage coach, Pony express, and Covered ox wagons!
Nearly all will never see the demise of the ICE powered vehicle anyway.
I'm in my 80's and love seeing all these new innovations.
Don't understand how a lot of it works, and I personally have no inclination of using best part it, but to condemn out of hand is silly.
Kids and grand kids love it, and it's their world now.
Get with the program!

[coleprice]

With all the news re Electric vehicles, how likely are YOU to purchase one? If not, why not?

For me, our 5 year old gas vehicle is perfectly fine for many many years. And at our tax rate cannot use any Tax Credit to lower price. But if our situation changed I would consider.
My wife and I purchased an EV Golf Cart, which we use extensively for local trips and to play golf (of course). Although our golf cart has demonstrated that it has a range of 80 miles on a charge, I would NEVER purchase a 100% EV automobile due to their limited range and the ecological damage that "lithium mining" causes. As other responders have stated, a hybrid is an excellent alternative that we would consider purchasing in lieu of a 100% gas or diesel vehicle.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

No. I wouldn't want to tax our already overworked electrical grid any further.
I would expect that if millions of these vehicles are sold, we can expect brownouts on a regular basis.

[nn0wheremann]

I have had a Hybrid for 2 years now, and I have been happy with it. It's a Toyota Highlander and its the same drive train they use in all of their Hybrids. I get between 30-36 mpg and have been able to get about 500 miles on a tank of gas. Better in town than on the highway, as with most Hybrids. My biggest issue with Electric Vehicles has been range, they need to resolve this or find a faster way of charging a vehicle. If you plan to take a trip with an Electric Vehicle you will likely need to alter your driving habits. When we travel, we try to do Iron Butt, in other words we go until we get there with stops for gas, bio breaks and food, but we tend to eat in the car. Can't do that with an Electric, 300-400 miles stop and recharge. Depending on your recharge time you may only be able to do this a couple of times a day. It would also be nice to understand the cost and how long the batteries last as well. Still very new.
Somebody with a bundle of cash to invest should look at putting charging stations for EVs at hotels. I would try to lock up the market for places in the middle and business class range, Marriott Fairfield’s and Courtyards, Holiday Inn Express, Hilton Hampton Inn, Comfort Inns, those sorts of places. Put in your four or five hundred miles, stop and charge overnight. Retirees and family leisure travelers, would be big markets, as well as business road warriors.

[Tvflguy]

A few top-of-head things..

Personally I’m very concerned about the next couple years - China. If it takes over Taiwan… big trouble. They make about 70% of the chips, China about 10% If that supply stalls even for a short time the impact would be severe.

Diesel is more than $1 above regular gas. Even with the bit of drop recently diesel is over $5. Trucks….

Back to China. They manufacture the brunt of EV batteries. Raw materials like lithium is cornered by then

Again back to China. They are mfg a LOT of EVs for Asia. And will shortly be exporting low cost EVs to North America. Made in China…. More stuff

I’m done.

[DaleDivine]

Would only purchase if close to price of gas powered vehicles. Recently bought a Corolla Cross, which I love, and getting over 33mph.

Not very fast...
:a20::a20::a20:

[jimjamuser]

With all the news re Electric vehicles, how likely are YOU to purchase one? If not, why not?

For me, our 5 year old gas vehicle is perfectly fine for many many years. And at our tax rate cannot use any Tax Credit to lower price. But if our situation changed I would consider.
Very likely. Already have an E-bike and will soon purchase an electric golf cart.

[retiredguy123]

95 percent of the new vehicles being sold in the U.S. today are gasoline vehicles and thousands more are being manufactured every day. Those vehicles will be on the road for the next 20 years, unless the Government buys them and either turns them into scrap metal or ships them to other countries. People are not going to just throw away their gasoline vehicles. We already have a completed infrastructure for gasoline vehicles, but almost no infrastructure to support electric vehicles. I think that any conversion to a system where most people are driving electric vehicles is at least 20 to 30 years in the future. It's way too early to buy an electric vehicle.

[patfla06]

Zero chance also.

[Keefelane66]

No. I wouldn't want to tax our already overworked electrical grid any further.
I would expect that if millions of these vehicles are sold, we can expect brownouts on a regular basis.
Then maybe we should stop building homes.

[jimjamuser]

My next car will probably be a hybrid, but I'm pampering my 19 yr old for as long as I can.
That yields a lot of positives for you and the world. It takes a lot of energy to produce a NEW car.

[jimjamuser]

Didnt know gasoline engines would yield 65 mpg. My 2021 camry will get up to 40 mpg on straight highway driving and happy with that
Th old VW Rabbit diesel got 65 mpg if I remember correctly.

[jimjamuser]

In my opinion, this is a no brainer. From a cost standpoint, there is no evidence that buying and owning an electric vehicle will save any money at all. Rather, it will probably cost you more money. If you are concerned about the environment, there doesn't seem to be any clear cut evidence that buying an electric vehicle will do anything to improve the environment, because making and disposing of the batteries will do substantial harm to the environment. Also, other countries aren't on board with with any of this environment saving endeavor. It seems to me that, if you really want to help the environment, then why not just buy a smaller car, drive less, and stay off of airplanes? And, if you are a snowbird why not sell one of your houses and only live in one of them? I don't hear anyone promoting the concept of just using less energy. There are lots of ways to reduce your carbon footprint, without buying an electric vehicle. The idea that electric vehicles are the answer to saving the environment is ridiculous.

I'm not suggesting that anyone do any of these things, but they would be a lot more effective than buying an electric vehicle. End of rant.
"Other countries are not onboard"? Maybe Russia and China are not, but Europe is. And the US is slowly getting there.

[jimjamuser]

Where do the batteries come from? How to dispose of them? How is the electricity generated to charge them? Save the planet? Ya right!
Basically, the electricity is generated at a central location, which is better equipped to control the pollution than thousands of internal combustion engines running around in that same local area. So, yes that helps the environment and lowers an individual driver's costs. Also, the batteries and electric motors in electrical vehicles are more dependable and easier to maintain with lower maintenance costs compare to internal combustion engine vehicles.

[Two Bills]

never!!!! Too woke for me

:ohdear:

[DaleDivine]

Nope. Same reason we’ll never get an electric cart - the range of it.

My thoughts exactly!!!:agree::agree:

:popcorn::popcorn:

[DaleDivine]

Basically, the electricity is generated at a central location, which is better equipped to control the pollution than thousands of internal combustion engines running around in that same local area. So, yes that helps the environment and lowers an individual driver's costs. Also, the batteries and electric motors in electrical vehicles are more dependable and easier to maintain with lower maintenance costs compare to internal combustion engine vehicles.

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[tophcfa]

Consider the fact that you may be stuck on I-95 in traffic and your battery is dead. Will AAA come out with some sort of charging equipment? A 300 mile range on a gas powered car is better than the same distance in an electric vehicle. Five minutes in a gas station and you're on your way again. How long does it take to fully recharge an electric?

Exactly what happened last January between Fredericksburg and Richmond when a big winter storm closed the highway overnight on a very cold night. Hundreds of EV’s drained their batteries trying to stay warm overnight. When the road finally opened it was gridlock, clogged up with dead EV’s everywhere. It took another half day to tow them away.

[tophcfa]

"Other countries are not onboard"? Maybe Russia and China are not, but Europe is. And the US is slowly getting there.

Europe is very urban and most European counties have a small geographical footprint, so range isn’t the issue it is in the USA. Apples to oranges comparison.

[maistocars]

No chance. Range is too low and maintenance appears high.

[jimjamuser]

Uhmmmm. Never?
I have trouble understanding why many, many people have said that they like to drive "straight through" on long trips and would "go crazy" driving an EV and having to stop a WHOLE one hour to charge up from time to time. Especially when retired, I prefer to enjoy a long trip and stop "to smell the roses" and do some sightseeing and take a little walk or do some exercise. You can jump rope, throw a softball, and jog in most rest stops. Sitting constantly like an "iron butt" is bad for the blood circulation and health.

Another reason why driving an ICE straight through, iron butt style might NOT ACTUALLY be a TIME saver. IC engines break down MUCH more often than electric engines (we have all had that happen). Then, fixing the IC engine could take one day or even more if it is a weekend, or in between cities. (plus towing) (plus the cost of a motel) I don't believe that people are taking this factor into consideration - an ICE vehicle can slow down your long trip to a much greater degree (and make it a DISASTER) than the 1-hour charging required by an EV.

[jimjamuser]

I don't plan on buying electric. Have you seen how dangerous lithium batteries are? FIRE HAZARDS ...... I've seen videos of charging stations where the cars are parked side by side and plugged in. Suddenly one bursts into flames, and within seconds, the car next to it catches fire, as do the rest down the line. And once it catches fire, it's almost impossible to put it out.


So, I don't plan on having one in my garage, plugged in overnight.

Forget the fact that they are expensive, and cause more pollution just making the batteries for them. Then there is the expended battery disposal issue ..... nobody wants them.
And then, there's the part that everybody forgets about, and that is the amount of money the state and Uncle Sam makes off of the gasoline tax. As soon as the revenue from the gas tax drops, guess who is going to get another whopping tax increase?
I think that I'll stick with my gasoline engine.
Gas and diesel engines catch fire all the time. It is just easier to be afraid of NEW things.

[Stu from NYC]

I have trouble understanding why many, many people have said that they like to drive "straight through" on long trips and would "go crazy" driving an EV and having to stop a WHOLE one hour to charge up from time to time. Especially when retired, I prefer to enjoy a long trip and stop "to smell the rose" and do some sightseeing and take a little walk or do some exercise. You can jump rope, throw a softball, and jog in most rest stops. Sitting constantly like an "iron butt" is bad for the blood circulation and health.

Another reason why driving an ICE straight through, iron butt style might NOT ACTUALLY be a TIME saver. IC engines break down MUCH more often than electric engines (we have all had that happen). Then, fixing the IC engine could take one day or even more if it is a weekend, or in between cities. (plus towing) (plus the cost of a motel) I don't believe that people are taking this factor into consideration - an ICE vehicle can slow down your long trip to a much greater degree (and make it a DISASTER) than the 1-hour charging required by an EV.

When we got see our grandkids we want to get there asap. Having to stop for an hour or more 3-4x would be a dealbreaker for me.

[retiredguy123]

Basically, the electricity is generated at a central location, which is better equipped to control the pollution than thousands of internal combustion engines running around in that same local area. So, yes that helps the environment and lowers an individual driver's costs. Also, the batteries and electric motors in electrical vehicles are more dependable and easier to maintain with lower maintenance costs compare to internal combustion engine vehicles.
I tried to verify that electric vehicles have lower maintenance costs than gas vehicles. There are lots of comparisons on the internet, but most of them compare the maintenance costs for dealerships. If you have an electric vehicle, you most likely need to have maintenance and repair work done at the dealer because it is difficult to find independent shops that will work on an electric vehicle. But, you can take your gas vehicle to almost any independent service shop and save a lot of money. Overall, I don't think it is a true statement that it is cheaper to maintain an electric vehicle. For example, a brake job on a Tesla at the dealer will cost you many times as much as a brake job on a regular gasoline vehicle at Sumter Tire. Also, they like to cite that an electric vehicle doesn't need oil changes, but the last oil change I got at Sumter Tire cost $40. Big deal.

[jimjamuser]

No chance. Range is too low and maintenance appears high.
Maintenance is LOWER with EVs than with ICE vehicles.

[Hardlyworking]

With regenerative braking, brake pads last way longer than on an ICE vehicle. Add washer fluid and change the cabin air filter. Not a big deal.

[Keefelane66]

Exactly what happened last January between Fredericksburg and Richmond when a big winter storm closed the highway overnight on a very cold night. Hundreds of EV’s drained their batteries trying to stay warm overnight. When the road finally opened it was gridlock, clogged up with dead EV’s everywhere. It took another half day to tow them away.
Sorry Charlie your embellishments are wrong from a news article in Forbes of the HUNDREDS of vehicles disabled by the freak storm “ Roadside service providers found that less than 5% of calls to service an EV on the road involved running out of juice”
So if there were 1000 vehicles disabled 50 would be EVs.

[Babubhat]

Never. The electrical grid infrastructure is in terrible shape. Existing technology works fine.

[tophcfa]

Sorry Charlie your embellishments are wrong from a news article in Forbes of the HUNDREDS of vehicles disabled by the freak storm “ Roadside service providers found that less than 5% of calls to service an EV on the road involved running out of juice”
So if there were 1000 vehicles disabled 50 would be EVs.

You can believe what you read if that’s what makes you happy, or you can believe what was witnessed and experienced by people who were actually there.

[toeser]

With all the news re Electric vehicles, how likely are YOU to purchase one? If not, why not?

For me, our 5 year old gas vehicle is perfectly fine for many many years. And at our tax rate cannot use any Tax Credit to lower price. But if our situation changed I would consider.

Not a chance. I can drive the 1550 miles to my other house in two days. Not even remotely possible with an electric.

P.S. Forget about being cheaper to operate. Talk to someone who has had to replace a battery.

[Quixote]

If a gasoline or diesel operated vehicle is right for you, then own and drive it.

If a hybrid or electric operated vehicle is right for you, then own and drive it.

We have owned several Priuses and now own a Tesla. They consistently worked well for us; our Tesla is 4+ years old, and the only operating/maintenance money we've ever put into it has been a pair of new tires.

I posted this on another thread: My wife was driving on 466 when the driver of a landscaping truck never saw her and pulled right out in front of her. Before she could even move her foot from the power pedal to the brake, the car had already stopped. After she caught her breath, she saw witnesses who stopped shook their heads incredulously....

THIS is why we drive a Tesla. We are not interested in Elon Musk's personality traits, nor do we envy his wealth. We recognize the issues involved in battery production that are analogous to those in computer production. Are we selfish in our focus on safety? Perhaps.

To each his or her own. Instead of simply saying it's not for them, those who are so absolutely adamant and forceful with their 'Never!' or 'Absolutely not!' or 'Zero chance!' sound like I imagine they said well over a century ago about Henry Ford and his 'contraption,' that their horses worked just fine....

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Then maybe we should stop building homes.

People need homes. They don’t need electric vehicles when gasoline vehicles work just fine. Those that are worried about the environment should be pushing for natural gas vehicles. Current gas burning cars can be easily converted as can service stations. Those who have natural gas in their homes would be able to fill up at home. Natural gas burns much cleaner than petrol. A complete conversion would reduce emissions by over 50%.

[retiredguy123]

People need homes. They don’t need electric vehicles when gasoline vehicles work just fine. Those that are worried about the environment should be pushing for natural gas vehicles. Current gas burning cars can be easily converted as can service stations. Those who have natural gas in their homes would be able to fill up at home. Natural gas burns much cleaner than petrol. A complete conversion would reduce emissions by over 50%.
I agree. Natural gas vehicles have been around for more than 20 years. When I had a Government job, I drove a Government owned car that used both natural gas and gasoline. When you ran out of natural gas, you pushed a button and switched to the gasoline tank and kept driving. I don't know why they haven't become popular.

[Altavia]

Exactly what happened last January between Fredericksburg and Richmond when a big winter storm closed the highway overnight on a very cold night. Hundreds of EV’s drained their batteries trying to stay warm overnight. When the road finally opened it was gridlock, clogged up with dead EV’s everywhere. It took another half day to tow them away.

False info...

[Stu from NYC]

I agree. Natural gas vehicles have been around for more than 20 years. When I had a Government job, I drove a Government owned car that used both natural gas and gasoline. When you ran out of natural gas, you pushed a button and switched to the gasoline tank and kept driving. I don't know why they haven't become popular.

Natural gas lobby not particularly strong?

[jimjamuser]

Never. The electrical grid infrastructure is in terrible shape. Existing technology works fine.
An electrical motor rotates in a SMOOTH continuous CIRCLE. An internal combustion engine is a RECIPROCATING engine that uses difficult-to-time EXPLOSIONS started by a spark plug to send a friction-producing PISTON moving rapidly downward, then stopping and reversing before being transformed into rotary motion by a friction-producing crankshaft. All that mess then sends energy to a flywheel and a transmission because the IC Engine is only moderately efficient within a small RPM range. An IC engine needs 2 types of oil and associated oil pumps to lessen the friction
and a heat exchanging radiator to keep the whole mess cool.

A vehicle's electrical motor uses about 1/3 of the parts that an internal combustion engine needs. Bottom line.......a simple E-vehicle engine design is better, more efficient, and much more reliable than the complex IC engine design.

[jimjamuser]

Not a chance. I can drive the 1550 miles to my other house in two days. Not even remotely possible with an electric.

P.S. Forget about being cheaper to operate. Talk to someone who has had to replace a battery.
That 2-day drive can turn into a one-week drive if you have ENGINE problems! An electrical engine is more reliable than an internal combustion engine

[jimjamuser]

People need homes. They don’t need electric vehicles when gasoline vehicles work just fine. Those that are worried about the environment should be pushing for natural gas vehicles. Current gas burning cars can be easily converted as can service stations. Those who have natural gas in their homes would be able to fill up at home. Natural gas burns much cleaner than petrol. A complete conversion would reduce emissions by over 50%.
Yes, an environmental improvement, but you would still be left with a reciprocating piston engine and all the unreliability and high service costs that go along with that design.

[Kenswing]

An electrical motor rotates in a SMOOTH continuous CIRCLE. An internal combustion engine is a RECIPROCATING engine that uses difficult-to-time EXPLOSIONS started by a spark plug to send a friction-producing PISTON moving rapidly upward, then stopping and reversing before being transformed into rotary motion by a friction-producing crankshaft. All that mess then sends energy to a flywheel and a transmission because the IC Engine is only moderately efficient within a small RPM range. An IC engine needs 2 types of oil and associated oil pumps to lessen the friction
and a heat exchanging radiator to keep the whole mess cool.

A vehicle's electrical motor uses about 1/3 of the parts that an internal combustion engine needs. Bottom line.......a simple E-vehicle engine design is better, more efficient, and much more reliable than the complex IC engine design.
My last vehicle with an archaic internal combustion engine went over 1,000,000 miles before I rebuilt it. That would indicate to me that they figured out the whole reciprocating explosion thing.
I’m not opposed to electric vehicles. When the price comes down and their reliability is proven I might consider one. Then again I probably only have maybe two new cars in my future so I doubt either of them will be electric.

[tophcfa]

That 2-day drive can turn into a one-week drive if you have ENGINE problems! An electrical engine is more reliable than an internal combustion engine

?????? Been driving internal combustion engine vehicles for over 45 years and only had one break down, which had nothing to do with the engine. It was a faulty ECU, the engine control unit which is a motherboard that communicates with all the electronic sensors. A properly cared for internal combustion engine is very reliable, especially one that doesn’t have a bunch of unreliable electronic components like those found in an EV.

[dwoodley1975]

Next year.

[SilverMema]

No chance ever.

[manaboutown]

?????? Been driving internal combustion engine vehicles for over 45 years and only had one break down, which had nothing to do with the engine. It was a faulty ECU, the engine control unit which is a motherboard that communicates with all the electronic sensors. A properly cared for internal combustion engine is very reliable, especially one that doesn’t have a bunch of unreliable electronic components like those found in an EV.

Back in about 1985 I rented a Lincoln Town Car from Hertz in Las Vegas. The whole dash instrument display was electronic, speedometer, gas gauge, all of it. It went black at night. I took it back and they gave me another car.

When I first visited The Villages in 2010 I rented a Nissan sedan at MCO from Enterprise. It had the first remote electronic key fob I had ever used. One day I stopped at the Belleview post office and the car's engine would not turn off. I tried everything I could think of and finally took it to the Enterprise agency in Sumter Landing. The guys there laughed at me but also could not get the engine to stop running. Last I saw of the car they had loaded it on a flat bed wrecker, engine still running. lol. I do not trust electronics.

[Keefelane66]

If a gasoline or diesel operated vehicle is right for you, then own and drive it.

If a hybrid or electric operated vehicle is right for you, then own and drive it.

We have owned several Priuses and now own a Tesla. They consistently worked well for us; our Tesla is 4+ years old, and the only operating/maintenance money we've ever put into it has been a pair of new tires.

I posted this on another thread: My wife was driving on 466 when the driver of a landscaping truck never saw her and pulled right out in front of her. Before she could even move her foot from the power pedal to the brake, the car had already stopped. After she caught her breath, she saw witnesses who stopped shook their heads incredulously....

THIS is why we drive a Tesla. We are not interested in Elon Musk's personality traits, nor do we envy his wealth. We recognize the issues involved in battery production that are analogous to those in computer production. Are we selfish in our focus on safety? Perhaps.

To each his or her own. Instead of simply saying it's not for them, those who are so absolutely adamant and forceful with their 'Never!' or 'Absolutely not!' or 'Zero chance!' sound like I imagine they said well over a century ago about Henry Ford and his 'contraption,' that their horses worked just fine....
I agree with you with many this conversation is like trying to have a conversation with sock puppets when it comes to discussions on EV or Hybrid vechicles

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Yes, an environmental improvement, but you would still be left with a reciprocating piston engine and all the unreliability and high service costs that go along with that design.

Do you mean the reciprocating piston engine that has been faithfully and reliably serving the world for the past 100 years? The engine that has powered tanks and other vehicles that won wars for us? The engine that is used in airplanes to safely get us airborne? Yes, that would be terrible. The problem with electric motors is that they take too long to charge. If you drive a long way and need to charge, you’ll need to stop for a minimal of several hours. If charging time can get reduced to minutes there might be a chance of EVs being successful. Even then, the entire electrical grid would need to be upgraded. How are we supposed to generate all of this additional electricity?

[ThirdOfFive]

Natural gas lobby not particularly strong?
Less powerful than gasoline. I cannot remember the numbers but I recall that natural gas is only 80% as powerful as gasoline.

[ThirdOfFive]

Do you mean the reciprocating piston engine that has been faithfully and reliably serving the world for the past 100 years? The engine that has powered tanks and other vehicles that won wars for us? The engine that is used in airplanes to safely get us airborne? Yes, that would be terrible. The problem with electric motors is that they take too long to charge. If you drive a long way and need to charge, you’ll need to stop for a minimal of several hours. If charging time can get reduced to minutes there might be a chance of EVs being successful. Even then, the entire electrical grid would need to be upgraded. How are we supposed to generate all of this additional electricity?
As has been pointed out in other posts, alternatives to petroleum-powered vehicles will become more available when they become as cheap and as reliable as petroleum-powered vehicles. That appears to be far in the future however.

Another technology that shows great promise is hydrogen power. A hydrogen-powered vehicle is essentially an EV but without the huge and expensive (to produce and to own) batteries. Instead the hydrogen is pumped into a fuel cell, and a reaction takes place that produces electricity to run the car. They have about the same range as battery-powered EVs and the running gear is pretty much the same. The difference is that you can fuel up a hydrogen-powered car in about four minutes vs. "X" length of time to charge a battery.

This technology already exists, albeit in infancy. Toyota makes a hydrogen-powered car (the Toyota Mirai) and a couple of other car manufacturers make one too. I don't think the infrastructure exists here yet, but it is available in a limited manner in California where you can fuel up with hydrogen at the some of the same stations that sell gasoline, and hydrogen tanker trucks are available to deliver it. I have no idea of the cost (probably a whole lot more at this stage than either petroleum - or battery - powered vehicles), but that should come down as the technology advances and infrastructure is adapted.

Best of all, absolutely emission-free.

[Stu from NYC]

As has been pointed out in other posts, alternatives to petroleum-powered vehicles will become more available when they become as cheap and as reliable as petroleum-powered vehicles. That appears to be far in the future however.

Another technology that shows great promise is hydrogen power. A hydrogen-powered vehicle is essentially an EV but without the huge and expensive (to produce and to own) batteries. Instead the hydrogen is pumped into a fuel cell, and a reaction takes place that produces electricity to run the car. They have about the same range as battery-powered EVs and the running gear is pretty much the same. The difference is that you can fuel up a hydrogen-powered car in about four minutes vs. "X" length of time to charge a battery.

This technology already exists, albeit in infancy. Toyota makes a hydrogen-powered car (the Toyota Mirai) and a couple of other car manufacturers make one too. I don't think the infrastructure exists here yet, but it is available in a limited manner in California where you can fuel up with hydrogen at the some of the same stations that sell gasoline, and hydrogen tanker trucks are available to deliver it. I have no idea of the cost (probably a whole lot more at this stage than either petroleum - or battery - powered vehicles), but that should come down as the technology advances and infrastructure is adapted.

Best of all, absolutely emission-free.

Not likely to be around to see it but would be interesting to see which technology wins out

[retiredguy123]

Less powerful than gasoline. I cannot remember the numbers but I recall that natural gas is only 80% as powerful as gasoline.
I don't know what that means. But, the cars I used from the Government motor pool had a natural gas tank and a gasoline tank. There was a switch on the dashboard where you could change from one tank to the other. I couldn't tell the difference in driving acceleration, speed, etc., between the 2 tanks. When I first drove one, I didn't even know that it had a natural gas tank.

[biker1]

Given that lack of infrastructure and the high cost of building the infrastructure, it is doubtful fuel cells will ever achieve wide use. I suspect they will be limited to trucks and busses which leave and return to the same facility each day. Also, the generation of hydrogen via electrolysis requires electricity and the end-to-end efficiency of the process is not as high as battery powered EVs when you consider all the aspects of producing, compressing, and transporting hydrogen. It is not correct to say that fuel cell vehicles are emission free as the process of producing hydrogen takes electricity and currently 60% of electricity in this country comes from gas and coal.

As has been pointed out in other posts, alternatives to petroleum-powered vehicles will become more available when they become as cheap and as reliable as petroleum-powered vehicles. That appears to be far in the future however.

Another technology that shows great promise is hydrogen power. A hydrogen-powered vehicle is essentially an EV but without the huge and expensive (to produce and to own) batteries. Instead the hydrogen is pumped into a fuel cell, and a reaction takes place that produces electricity to run the car. They have about the same range as battery-powered EVs and the running gear is pretty much the same. The difference is that you can fuel up a hydrogen-powered car in about four minutes vs. "X" length of time to charge a battery.

This technology already exists, albeit in infancy. Toyota makes a hydrogen-powered car (the Toyota Mirai) and a couple of other car manufacturers make one too. I don't think the infrastructure exists here yet, but it is available in a limited manner in California where you can fuel up with hydrogen at the some of the same stations that sell gasoline, and hydrogen tanker trucks are available to deliver it. I have no idea of the cost (probably a whole lot more at this stage than either petroleum - or battery - powered vehicles), but that should come down as the technology advances and infrastructure is adapted.

Best of all, absolutely emission-free.

[biker1]

What the poster probably meant was that LNG has 70% of the energy density of gasoline (by volume). Maybe he meant CNG?? While it is an interesting factoid, I don't think it really matters all that much.

I don't know what that means. But, the cars I used from the Government motor pool had a natural gas tank and a gasoline tank. There was a switch on the dashboard where you could change from one tank to the other. I couldn't tell the difference in driving acceleration, speed, etc., between the 2 tanks. When I first drove one, I didn't even know that it had a natural gas tank.

[mtdjed]

Do you mean the reciprocating piston engine that has been faithfully and reliably serving the world for the past 100 years? The engine that is used in airplanes to safely get us airborne?

Gas Turbines dominate the air transportation sector. A bit different than reciprocating engines.

[Malsua]

As has been pointed out in other posts, alternatives to petroleum-powered vehicles will become more available when they become as cheap and as reliable as petroleum-powered vehicles. That appears to be far in the future however.

Another technology that shows great promise is hydrogen power. A hydrogen-powered vehicle is essentially an EV but without the huge and expensive (to produce and to own) batteries. Instead the hydrogen is pumped into a fuel cell, and a reaction takes place that produces electricity to run the car. They have about the same range as battery-powered EVs and the running gear is pretty much the same. The difference is that you can fuel up a hydrogen-powered car in about four minutes vs. "X" length of time to charge a battery.

This technology already exists, albeit in infancy. Toyota makes a hydrogen-powered car (the Toyota Mirai) and a couple of other car manufacturers make one too. I don't think the infrastructure exists here yet, but it is available in a limited manner in California where you can fuel up with hydrogen at the some of the same stations that sell gasoline, and hydrogen tanker trucks are available to deliver it. I have no idea of the cost (probably a whole lot more at this stage than either petroleum - or battery - powered vehicles), but that should come down as the technology advances and infrastructure is adapted.

Best of all, absolutely emission-free.

Hydrogen is low density. It requires a lot of it for any fuel applications. This means high pressures.

It is also very leaky. Put hydrogen in ANYTHING and if you wait long enough, it is all gone. The molecules are small and literally just work their way out of containment. It will diffuse into everything it contacts. Look up hydrogen embrittlement if you want a deep dive into what it can do to metals.

There is no "source" of hydrogen that doesn't require more energy to obtain than the hydrogen can create. A 100% efficient fuel cell(impossible) is still an energy loss.

This makes Hydrogen simply a storage medium of energy. It's not a very good one at that.

[Two Bills]

Do you mean the reciprocating piston engine that has been faithfully and reliably serving the world for the past 100 years? The engine that has powered tanks and other vehicles that won wars for us? The engine that is used in airplanes to safely get us airborne? Yes, that would be terrible. The problem with electric motors is that they take too long to charge. If you drive a long way and need to charge, you’ll need to stop for a minimal of several hours. If charging time can get reduced to minutes there might be a chance of EVs being successful. Even then, the entire electrical grid would need to be upgraded. How are we supposed to generate all of this additional electricity?

...and a lot of experts said a man would never stand on the moon.
Then the other experts solved the problem, which turned out to be 'One giant leap for mankind!'

[biker1]

You would need equipment to compress the natural gas. Equipment to do this has been available for about 10 years but I don't see wide spread adoption. The decision that EVs are the future has already been made by virtually every car maker.

People need homes. They don’t need electric vehicles when gasoline vehicles work just fine. Those that are worried about the environment should be pushing for natural gas vehicles. Current gas burning cars can be easily converted as can service stations. Those who have natural gas in their homes would be able to fill up at home. Natural gas burns much cleaner than petrol. A complete conversion would reduce emissions by over 50%.

[biker1]

Not really true. With DC fast chargers, such as the Tesla Superchargers, you can get about 200 miles of range in about 20 minutes when you are away from home. The vast majority of miles are local and people charge at home over night. People in apartments are more of a challenge that needs to be addressed. Regarding the generation of electricity, if all gas cars were replaced by EVs today, we would need an additional 25%. Since it will probably take 20 years to replace a majority of the gas cars with EVs, we have time for electricity production to ramp up. It would be nice if this country could see it's way to adopt the new nuclear reactor designs and increase the amount of power from nuclear.

Do you mean the reciprocating piston engine that has been faithfully and reliably serving the world for the past 100 years? The engine that has powered tanks and other vehicles that won wars for us? The engine that is used in airplanes to safely get us airborne? Yes, that would be terrible. The problem with electric motors is that they take too long to charge. If you drive a long way and need to charge, you’ll need to stop for a minimal of several hours. If charging time can get reduced to minutes there might be a chance of EVs being successful. Even then, the entire electrical grid would need to be upgraded. How are we supposed to generate all of this additional electricity?

[Stu from NYC]

Not really true. With DC fast chargers, such as the Tesla Superchargers, you can get about 200 miles of range in about 20 minutes when you are away from home. The vast majority of miles are local and people charge at home over night. People in apartments are more of a challenge that needs to be addressed. Regarding the generation of electricity, if all gas cars were replaced by EVs today, we would need an additional 25%. Since it will probably take 20 years to replace a majority of the gas cars with EVs, we have time for electricity production to ramp up. It would be nice if this country could see it's way to adopt the new nuclear reactor designs and increase the amount of power from nuclear.

Very strange how everyone is going away from nuclear at a time when more energy is needed

[biker1]

Yes, Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, and Fukushima have had a negative impact on the public perception. Chernobyl was an example of incompetence in design. The operators of Fukushima were told that they weren't hardened enough against a natural disaster. Three Mile Island appears to be a combination of inadequate training and some bad luck.

Very strange how everyone is going away from nuclear at a time when more energy is needed

[jimjamuser]

My last vehicle with an archaic internal combustion engine went over 1,000,000 miles before I rebuilt it. That would indicate to me that they figured out the whole reciprocating explosion thing.
I’m not opposed to electric vehicles. When the price comes down and their reliability is proven I might consider one. Then again I probably only have maybe two new cars in my future so I doubt either of them will be electric.
A million miles on an ICE is possible with good maintenance and especially if it is a diesel because the fuel is also a lubricant. But, a million miles is an unusual outlier......... something to be congratulated!

[jimjamuser]

45 years and only one IC engine problem.......quite a record! And I would consider an ECU to be part of the engine, since it is an ENGINE control unit.

[jimjamuser]

Do you mean the reciprocating piston engine that has been faithfully and reliably serving the world for the past 100 years? The engine that has powered tanks and other vehicles that won wars for us? The engine that is used in airplanes to safely get us airborne? Yes, that would be terrible. The problem with electric motors is that they take too long to charge. If you drive a long way and need to charge, you’ll need to stop for a minimal of several hours. If charging time can get reduced to minutes there might be a chance of EVs being successful. Even then, the entire electrical grid would need to be upgraded. How are we supposed to generate all of this additional electricity?
Just saying that the reciprocating piston engine DID successfully REPLACE the horse. Now society and technology are in the beginning stage of replacing the reciprocating piston engines with something better. No innovation is perfect in the early stages of adoption. The early Thomas Edison light bulb used direct current. So, improvements will happen. The world will get less air pollution and Global Warming may decrease as long as it is NOT too far gone. And the horse did not cause the air pollution that the ICE has done........just some street waste.

[jimjamuser]

Less powerful than gasoline. I cannot remember the numbers but I recall that natural gas is only 80% as powerful as gasoline.
And a POWERFUL engine is IMPORTANT how? Oh yes, in order to win a street drag race!

[MartinSE]

Nuclear is being considered.

Nukes are potentially very bad, but the do have an excellent safety record. Much better than fossil fuel generators.

No one source will provide all of the energetic we are going to need. Geothermal, hydro, wave, solar, wind and nukes will all have their place.

We need to stop looking for silver bullets and find the best available solutions for each situation.

Someone one said the vast majority of miles driven are local. Simply put. That is a serious understatement.

Also, private ownership of automobiles is not the smartest approach there. Time shared smart cars with full self driving will greatly reduce price ownership.

[toeser]

That 2-day drive can turn into a one-week drive if you have ENGINE problems! An electrical engine is more reliable than an internal combustion engine

I have been driving for 63 years. Hasn't happened to me yet. I buy only cars that have sky-high reliability ratings.

[Stu from NYC]

I have been driving for 63 years. Hasn't happened to me yet. I buy only cars that have sky-high reliability ratings.

Very true. Take care of a well made car, change oil frequently and they will last and last

[l2ridehd]

My issue’s are how we get electricity. It’s still 40% coal. So until we move to more renewable or more nuclear it just doesn’t make any sense. All your doing is moving the problem someplace else. And then there is the issue with batteries. Most of the scarce elements are mined by child labor. Then there is the disposal issue, the electric grid issues and the charging issues. IMHO we are a very long way from moving off gasoline. Hydrogen makes a lot more sense if it can be done. We have not even began to see all the environmental issue with batteries.

Perhaps we need more electric trains like Europe has. No batteries and move 100’s of people at a time. We did have the track system but let it fall apart. Still cheaper solution then all the others. Used to have a train station in every small town in America. We could again.

[Tvflguy]

Very true. Take care of a well made car, change oil frequently and they will last and last

100% correct. And if it’s a later ICE model it will have effective pollution control systems. We have a 2015 Mercedes GLA, since new with only 32k miles. It gets avg 30 mpg. Runs great and good size for us. Even tho we drive far less than 10k per year I get the oil changed with the BEST synth on the market Amsoil.

That all said I would love to get a plug-in hybrid or EV. Perhaps the Hyundai plug-in midsize Tucson. Or the EV Ford Mach-E. Those would be my current choices.

But if I put my Financial Advisor hat on, they would say “are you stupid or something’???

I’m not stupid.

[Stu from NYC]

100% correct. And if it’s a later ICE model it will have effective pollution control systems. We have a 2015 Mercedes GLA, since new with only 32k miles. It gets avg 30 mpg. Runs great and good size for us. Even tho we drive far less than 10k per year I get the oil changed with the BEST synth on the market Amsoil.

That all said I would love to get a plug-in hybrid or EV. Perhaps the Hyundai plug-in midsize Tucson. Or the EV Ford Mach-E. Those would be my current choices.

But if I put my Financial Advisor hat on, they would say “are you stupid or something’???

I’m not stupid.

Agreed, run a car with high mpg and do not see how the numbers can work.

[biker1]

No, coal is used for about 20% of US electricity production. NG is about 40%. Child labor is mostly associates with cobalt mining. The use of cobalt is dropping. For example, about half of Tesla’s batteries are now LFP. Speaking of Europe, some of the European countries are among the fastest adopters of electric cars.


My issue’s are how we get electricity. It’s still 40% coal. So until we move to more renewable or more nuclear it just doesn’t make any sense. All your doing is moving the problem someplace else. And then there is the issue with batteries. Most of the scarce elements are mined by child labor. Then there is the disposal issue, the electric grid issues and the charging issues. IMHO we are a very long way from moving off gasoline. Hydrogen makes a lot more sense if it can be done. We have not even began to see all the environmental issue with batteries.

Perhaps we need more electric trains like Europe has. No batteries and move 100’s of people at a time. We did have the track system but let it fall apart. Still cheaper solution then all the others. Used to have a train station in every small town in America. We could again.

[manaboutown]

Speaking of Europe, some of the European countries are among the fastest adopters of electric cars.

That is understandable. The distances driven are short compared to those in the USA and gasoline and diesel are extremely expensive.

[Spectreron]

I've read all the comments and can only shake my head. So many misconceptions...
EVs are much less expensive per mile driven
A fully charged Tesla holds the energy equivalent of 4 gal. of gasoline but gets 250-300 miles on that charge.
Batteries are already being recycled by Redwood Materials and others. They discharge the batteries in liquid nitrogen, grind them up, recover all the pure minerals and return them to the supply chain. Musk calls it battery mining because you end up with new raw materials.
There are charging stations everywhere, especially Tesla. Waiting in line for a supercharger is very rare. Charging stations are growing many time faster than EVs. Doubling annually.
You can add 200 miles of range in 20 mins at a supercharger or other high speed charger.
A typical 1,000 mile trip takes 2 hrs longer in an EV, providing the gas car just fills up and goes without spending any additional time at the gas station. The EV driver plugs in, pees, grabs a snack, 20 mins later is on the road.
There is so much else that people have heard or read that gives them a false picture. It's coming folks, the Tesla Model Y will be the worlds #1 selling auto in 2023 (ice and EV).
I really don't give a rat's if you buy one or not, just do a little research before you make statements.
Most EVs are a blast to drive, I'm 70+ yrs old and plan to have fun on my way out!

[retiredguy123]

I've read all the comments and can only shake my head. So many misconceptions...
EVs are much less expensive per mile driven
A fully charged Tesla holds the energy equivalent of 4 gal. of gasoline but gets 250-300 miles on that charge.
Batteries are already being recycled by Redwood Materials and others. They discharge the batteries in liquid nitrogen, grind them up, recover all the pure minerals and return them to the supply chain. Musk calls it battery mining because you end up with new raw materials.
There are charging stations everywhere, especially Tesla. Waiting in line for a supercharger is very rare. Charging stations are growing many time faster than EVs. Doubling annually.
You can add 200 miles of range in 20 mins at a supercharger or other high speed charger.
A typical 1,000 mile trip takes 2 hrs longer in an EV, providing the gas car just fills up and goes without spending any additional time at the gas station. The EV driver plugs in, pees, grabs a snack, 20 mins later is on the road.
There is so much else that people have heard or read that gives them a false picture. It's coming folks, the Tesla Model Y will be the worlds #1 selling auto in 2023 (ice and EV).
I really don't give a rat's if you buy one or not, just do a little research before you make statements.
Most EVs are a blast to drive, I'm 70+ yrs old and plan to have fun on my way out!
With the average price for a new car at $43K, how is the Tesla Model Y, at $70K, going to be the #1 selling car?

Maybe EVs are coming, but since 95 percent of new cars being sold are gasoline cars that are designed to last 20 years or more, I think it will be a long time before electric vehicles are the standard.

[tophcfa]

45 years and only one IC engine problem.......quite a record! And I would consider an ECU to be part of the engine, since it is an ENGINE control unit.

Wrong, it’s a piece of plastic with a bunch of computer chips attached to it.

[biker1]

For the vast majority in the US, less miles are driven per day then the range of most EVs so charging is done at night.


That is understandable. The distances driven are short compared to those in the USA and gasoline and diesel are extremely expensive.

[jimjamuser]

My issue’s are how we get electricity. It’s still 40% coal. So until we move to more renewable or more nuclear it just doesn’t make any sense. All your doing is moving the problem someplace else. And then there is the issue with batteries. Most of the scarce elements are mined by child labor. Then there is the disposal issue, the electric grid issues and the charging issues. IMHO we are a very long way from moving off gasoline. Hydrogen makes a lot more sense if it can be done. We have not even began to see all the environmental issue with batteries.

Perhaps we need more electric trains like Europe has. No batteries and move 100’s of people at a time. We did have the track system but let it fall apart. Still cheaper solution then all the others. Used to have a train station in every small town in America. We could again.
Trains make a lot of sense to me !

[jimjamuser]

100% correct. And if it’s a later ICE model it will have effective pollution control systems. We have a 2015 Mercedes GLA, since new with only 32k miles. It gets avg 30 mpg. Runs great and good size for us. Even tho we drive far less than 10k per year I get the oil changed with the BEST synth on the market Amsoil.

That all said I would love to get a plug-in hybrid or EV. Perhaps the Hyundai plug-in midsize Tucson. Or the EV Ford Mach-E. Those would be my current choices.

But if I put my Financial Advisor hat on, they would say “are you stupid or something’???

I’m not stupid.
Since pollution control systems were mentioned. (Actually, my 1st thought is pollution is a product of excess population. In the 1950s there was no concern about pollution, pollution controls on automobiles, or even Global Warming because the US had about 150 million people..) My next thought was about all the ICE golf carts here in TV Land - and about how clean burning are those vehicles? I would bet that every one of the ICE golf carts they are polluting about as much as 5 newer cars or trucks. And I KNOW THIS.........because I can SMELL them as they go by on a residential street. Sit out and read a book within 15 ft of a residential street and just observe the smell of gasoline after a golf car goes past.

If I were making rules for TV Land, I would give a YEARLY cash bonus of $600 for every residential home that has an Electric golf car and $200 for every E-bike.

[jimjamuser]

Wrong, it’s a piece of plastic with a bunch of computer chips attached to it.
Right!!!!! A piece of plastic that is part of the ENGINE because the engine needs it to run and run smoothly.

[Stu from NYC]

Trains make a lot of sense to me !

The American people prefer going at their convenience not based on train schedule.

[Spectreron]

With the average price for a new car at $43K, how is the Tesla Model Y, at $70K, going to be the #1 selling car?

Maybe EVs are coming, but since 95 percent of new cars being sold are gasoline cars that are designed to last 20 years or more, I think it will be a long time before electric vehicles are the standard.

This is how.
Tesla Model Y is on track to be the world's best-selling car | Electrek (https://electrek.co/2022/08/05/tesla-model-y-on-track-worlds-best-selling-car/)

[Tvflguy]

Since pollution control systems were mentioned. (Actually, my 1st thought is pollution is a product of excess population. In the 1950s there was no concern about pollution, pollution controls on automobiles, or even Global Warming because the US had about 150 million people..) My next thought was about all the ICE golf carts here in TV Land - and about how clean burning are those vehicles? I would bet that every one of the ICE golf carts they are polluting about as much as 5 newer cars or trucks. And I KNOW THIS.........because I can SMELL them as they go by on a residential street. Sit out and read a book within 15 ft of a residential street and just observe the smell of gasoline after a golf car goes past.

If I were making rules for TV Land, I would give a YEARLY cash bonus of $600 for every residential home that has an Electric golf car and $200 for every E-bike.

We have a battery electric cart. For several reasons. I hate to have to hold my breath in tunnels.
I understand they are not for all. So be it. Fine for us. A choice.

And yes. Seldom hear about small 2 cycle engines and their pollution. All the lawn equipment. No pollution controls at all. I also have a batt elec lawn mower and trimmers. I’m not a “Green” guy, but like the convenience of electric tools. No mess with gas or oils etc.

[Brad-tv]

With the average price for a new car at $43K, how is the Tesla Model Y, at $70K, going to be the #1 selling car?

Maybe EVs are coming, but since 95 percent of new cars being sold are gasoline cars that are designed to last 20 years or more, I think it will be a long time before electric vehicles are the standard.

Design Your Model 3 | Tesla (https://www.tesla.com/model3/design#overview)

Think again Tesla model 3 starts at 40,390. A ice vehicle may last 20 years maybe if you drive 15k miles a year and baby it? And what are the odds that you won’t have major repairs and that’s not counting annual maintenance oil changes brakes etc.in 20 years and you hardly use the brakes on a ev , 1 pedal driving.
Tesla has proved many times the batteries can go over 1 million miles and still charge to 95%. Do EVs have bugs to work out absolutely what OEMS don’t? The range keeps going up every year.

I’ve had a ev for almost 2 years now and love driving it every day. Would I buy another one in a heartbeat! Who drives more than 50 miles a day? Not too many Villagers. You can charge to 300 miles and if you go on a road trip and your in such a rush that you don’t want to take a break every 3-4 hours to charge then don’t buy one.

Go test drive a Tesla and you may change your mind unless your mind is already made up and you don’t like EVs anyway.

[Aces4]

I've read all the comments and can only shake my head. So many misconceptions...
EVs are much less expensive per mile driven
A fully charged Tesla holds the energy equivalent of 4 gal. of gasoline but gets 250-300 miles on that charge.
Batteries are already being recycled by Redwood Materials and others. They discharge the batteries in liquid nitrogen, grind them up, recover all the pure minerals and return them to the supply chain. Musk calls it battery mining because you end up with new raw materials.
There are charging stations everywhere, especially Tesla. Waiting in line for a supercharger is very rare. Charging stations are growing many time faster than EVs. Doubling annually.
You can add 200 miles of range in 20 mins at a supercharger or other high speed charger.
A typical 1,000 mile trip takes 2 hrs longer in an EV, providing the gas car just fills up and goes without spending any additional time at the gas station. The EV driver plugs in, pees, grabs a snack, 20 mins later is on the road.
There is so much else that people have heard or read that gives them a false picture. It's coming folks, the Tesla Model Y will be the worlds #1 selling auto in 2023 (ice and EV).
I really don't give a rat's if you buy one or not, just do a little research before you make statements.
Most EVs are a blast to drive, I'm 70+ yrs old and plan to have fun on my way out!

Would you please stop shaking your head and explain to all of us how many wind farms, solar farms, dams, etc. can we anticipate devouring the land Americans depend on for food, dwellings and so forth, are required to even begin to supply the vast amounts of electricity that will be necessary for this boondoggle. Also, examine life spans of turbines, solar panels and the debris remaining at the end of their relatively short life spans. Then, how will extreme damage from hurricanes, tornadoes and wild fires to this equipment affect residents of those areas. This is only the tip of the proverbial iceberg. Welcome to the new world of brown and black outs and will everyone be held to the same standards or will the DC elite get a pass?

[jimjamuser]

The American people prefer going at their convenience not based on train schedule.
The real Historic truth behind the demise of the railroads is that Dwight Eisenhower, as an intelligent military expert, realized that the US needed an INTERSTATE highway system like Germany had in order to move military equipment and men around the country in the event of an attack.

[jimjamuser]

We have a battery electric cart. For several reasons. I hate to have to hold my breath in tunnels.
I understand they are not for all. So be it. Fine for us. A choice.

And yes. Seldom hear about small 2 cycle engines and their pollution. All the lawn equipment. No pollution controls at all. I also have a batt elec lawn mower and trimmers. I’m not a “Green” guy, but like the convenience of electric tools. No mess with gas or oils etc.
We agree!

[Spectreron]

Would you please stop shaking your head and explain to all of us how many wind farms, solar farms, dams, etc. can we anticipate devouring the land Americans depend on for food, dwellings and so forth, are required to even begin to supply the vast amounts of electricity that will be necessary for this boondoggle. Also, examine life spans of turbines, solar panels and the debris remaining at the end of their relatively short life spans. Then, how will extreme damage from hurricanes, tornadoes and wild fires to this equipment affect residents of those areas. This is only the tip of the proverbial iceberg. Welcome to the new world of brown and black outs and will everyone be held to the same standards or will the DC elite get a pass?

Whoa Dude, nice rant! Now I'm really shaking my head!

[MartinSE]

Would you please stop shaking your head and explain to all of us how many wind farms, solar farms, dams, etc. can we anticipate devouring the land Americans depend on for food, dwellings and so forth, are required to even begin to supply the vast amounts of electricity that will be necessary for this boondoggle. Also, examine life spans of turbines, solar panels and the debris remaining at the end of their relatively short life spans. Then, how will extreme damage from hurricanes, tornadoes and wild fires to this equipment affect residents of those areas. This is only the tip of the proverbial iceberg. Welcome to the new world of brown and black outs and will everyone be held to the same standards or will the DC elite get a pass?

Pretty much sums it up, we are all doomed and failures, and since we can't answer ALL your questions, well, why bother trying to lead the world in anything. Let's just spiral on downward while the rest of the word moves forward.

Numerous answers have been giving to ALL your doubts and answers, but you like so many aren't interested. All you want to do is point out why n nothing can ever be done.

People also said, cars will never replace horses.

People also said we could never land and reuse rockets.

People also said EV's will never work or be practical. And yet, Tesla is the best selling cars in some countries and the Model Y is on track to be the best selling car in the world.

People said solar will never be practical, and now it competes around the world with fossil fuel power.

There is always someone to tell us why we can never do anything.

On and on...

[Aces4]

Whoa Dude, nice rant! Now I'm really shaking my head!

When someone responds with questions to your declarations, you decide and label them as ranting, lol. In other words, you hadn’t thought about those things.:1rotfl:

[Aces4]

Pretty much sums it up, we are all doomed and failures, and since we can't answer ALL your questions, well, why bother trying to lead the world in anything. Let's just spiral on downward while the rest of the word moves forward.

Numerous answers have been giving to ALL your doubts and answers, but you like so many aren't interested. All you want to do is point out why n nothing can ever be done.

People also said, cars will never replace horses.

People also said we could never land and reuse rockets.

People also said EV's will never work or be practical. And yet, Tesla is the best selling cars in some countries and the Model Y is on track to be the best selling car in the world.

People said solar will never be practical, and now it competes around the world with fossil fuel power.

There is always someone to tell us why we can never do anything.

On and on...


Solar competes with fossil fuel power… no competition. Think through and research exactly what limitations come with solar power.

All this clutching at the idea everyone is now embracing the very limited ability evs over ces is your philosophy. Can’t wait to see the first solar jet fighter, since solar is the answer to everything.

[Spectreron]

When someone responds with questions to your declarations, you decide and label them as ranting, lol. In other words, you hadn’t thought about those things.:1rotfl:
Aces, this isn't a tree hugger thing, it's a new technology thing. I'm no fan of wind farms either. Nothing wrong with dams. The grid can handle it and will grow as needed, you know $$$$ talks. The damn things are safer than Volvos and a blast to drive. They deserve an honest look.

[Calisport]

Electric Lithium golf cart only. Never a regular car gas or electric again if I can help it. Too expensive.

[Aces4]

Aces, this isn't a tree hugger thing, it's a new technology thing. I'm no fan of wind farms either. Nothing wrong with dams. The grid can handle it and will grow as needed, you know $$$$ talks. The damn things are safer than Volvos and a blast to drive. They deserve an honest look.

I should state that I don’t hate evs, my irritation is with the brief time line declared for such a major transition for the US when the homework, grid capabilities, and flaws have not been sufficiently examined.

The financial pressure being applied to everyday citizens to convert to evs now is ridiculous when in all reality, this conversion could make the pollution problems much worse. Throw the baby out with the bath water! Why not develop a twenty year plan? Most people will have converted before that, the grid may be able to handle it and the kinks would be much fewer.

[manaboutown]

For the vast majority in the US, less miles are driven per day then the range of most EVs so charging is done at night.

Sure around town EVs are great. But I take road trips of a thousand miles and drive it in two days. At this point in time I could not do that in an EV.

[Love2Swim]

I should state that I don’t hate evs, my irritation is with the brief time line declared for such a major transition for the US when the homework, grid capabilities, and flaws have not been sufficiently examined.

The financial pressure being applied to everyday citizens to convert to evs now is ridiculous when in all reality, this conversion could make the pollution problems much worse. Throw the baby out with the bath water! Why not develop a twenty year plan? Most people will have converted before that, the grid may be able to handle it and the kinks would be much fewer.

For YEARS forward thinking politicians have been trying to incorporate green energy into our energy plan as a nation. Back in 2007 Al Gore was calling on the US to produce all its energy from zero-carbon sources within 10 years, and look where that got us. The last President dismantled nearly 100 policies focused on clean air, water, wildlife and toxic chemicals.

[biker1]

It would take longer with an EV. You would have to stop every 200 miles for about 20 minutes. It is what it is. Buy an EV or don't buy an EV, nobody cares what you do and nobody is forcing you to do anything.

Sure around town EVs are great. But I take road trips of a thousand miles and drive it in two days. At this point in time I could not do that in an EV.

[biker1]

Exactly what pressure is being applied to you to buy an EV? You can buy whatever you want today and well into the future. EVs are another option. Gas cars will continue to be made for at least another 15 years, maybe more.

I should state that I don’t hate evs, my irritation is with the brief time line declared for such a major transition for the US when the homework, grid capabilities, and flaws have not been sufficiently examined.

The financial pressure being applied to everyday citizens to convert to evs now is ridiculous when in all reality, this conversion could make the pollution problems much worse. Throw the baby out with the bath water! Why not develop a twenty year plan? Most people will have converted before that, the grid may be able to handle it and the kinks would be much fewer.

[Two Bills]

Sure around town EVs are great. But I take road trips of a thousand miles and drive it in two days. At this point in time I could not do that in an EV.

Then do it in your Gas car, or fly.
No one is forcing anyone to go EV.
No one is stopping ICE for a long time.

[MartinSE]

Solar competes with fossil fuel power… no competition. Think through and research exactly what limitations come with solar power.

All this clutching at the idea everyone is now embracing the very limited ability evs over ces is your philosophy. Can’t wait to see the first solar jet fighter, since solar is the answer to everything.

You argument is exactly the issue with America today If something can't fix every thing it isn't work doing.

Solar DOES compete with fossil fuel in most of the world, just not here, it is replacing and augmenting electricity generation is many areas of the world, and is over 25% of electrical generation in some countries.

It is NO philosophy, it is fact.

300,000,000 automobiles compared to 2,000 fighter jets. And you say solar can't compete before it can't provide 2,000 jets.

Right.

[MartinSE]

Sure around town EVs are great. But I take road trips of a thousand miles and drive it in two days. At this point in time I could not do that in an EV.

A thousand mile trip would take around 15 hours if you have a catheter and don't have to stop to pee and have side tanks so you don't have to stop for gas, and you don't exceed the average speed limit of 70 mph.

With a long rage electric, today, it would add 3 stops of 30 minutes or a grand total of 1.5 hours to your 15 hour drive, bringing it to 16.5 hours. Split over two days that comes to 8.25 hours per day in EV vs 7.5 hours per day in ICE. That is horrible, I agree.

Also, I don't know if you drive a pickup (with side tanks so you don't have to stop) or a compact car, but the comparison is:

Average costs per mile for cars in the US:

$0.04/mile for EV = $40 round trip
$0.10/mile for compact ICE = $100 round trip
$0.16/mile for pickup. = $160 round trip

And, assuming the EV is a Tesla, the charging stations are almost everywhere, so while there MAY be a slight difference in miles to ensure charging stations, depending on where you are going, the odds are against it. And with the infrastructure bill passed charging stations are going to be rapidly added everywhere else.

I will agree with you thought, EV are GREAT around town. By around town, I mean a 200 mile round trip.

[MartinSE]

I should state that I don’t hate evs, my irritation is with the brief time line declared for such a major transition for the US when the homework, grid capabilities, and flaws have not been sufficiently examined.

The financial pressure being applied to everyday citizens to convert to evs now is ridiculous when in all reality, this conversion could make the pollution problems much worse. Throw the baby out with the bath water! Why not develop a twenty year plan? Most people will have converted before that, the grid may be able to handle it and the kinks would be much fewer.

What brief time line would that be? Yours? I have said, and no one has disputed, that to replace the 300,000,000 ICE vehicles on the road and provide the infrastructure to support the TVs will take at least 30 years.

If by brief timeline you mean to get started, well, that can happen today. Or we could put it off until it is perfect - meaning forever.

And cost, everyones favorite whipping boy is Tesla, and claims of $70K, not many mention Chevy Bolt EUV around $38K. Seems to me, when you consider the cost of maintenance on an ICE the Chevy is about 1/2 the cost or less of the ICE competition.

[retiredguy123]

What brief time line would that be? Yours? I have said, and no one has disputed, that to replace the 300,000,000 ICE vehicles on the road and provide the infrastructure to support the TVs will take at least 30 years.

If by brief timeline you mean to get started, well, that can happen today. Or we could put it off until it is perfect - meaning forever.

And cost, everyones favorite whipping boy is Tesla, and claims of $70K, not many mention Chevy Bolt EUV around $38K. Seems to me, when you consider the cost of maintenance on an ICE the Chevy is about 1/2 the cost or less of the ICE competition.
I don't understand the half cost for maintenance. The only maintenance I do on my car are oil changes, brakes, and tires. Oil changes are $40, and I assume that an electric vehicle needs tires and brakes. Also, can you get a brake job on an electric vehicle at a service station, or do you need to go to the dealer, and pay a lot more?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

A thousand mile trip would take around 15 hours if you have a catheter and don't have to stop to pee and have side tanks so you don't have to stop for gas, and you don't exceed the average speed limit of 70 mph.

With a long rage electric, today, it would add 3 stops of 30 minutes or a grand total of 1.5 hours to your 15 hour drive, bringing it to 16.5 hours. Split over two days that comes to 8.25 hours per day in EV vs 7.5 hours per day in ICE. That is horrible, I agree.

Also, I don't know if you drive a pickup (with side tanks so you don't have to stop) or a compact car, but the comparison is:

Average costs per mile for cars in the US:

$0.04/mile for EV = $40 round trip
$0.10/mile for compact ICE = $100 round trip
$0.16/mile for pickup. = $160 round trip

And, assuming the EV is a Tesla, the charging stations are almost everywhere, so while there MAY be a slight difference in miles to ensure charging stations, depending on where you are going, the odds are against it. And with the infrastructure bill passed charging stations are going to be rapidly added everywhere else.

I will agree with you thought, EV are GREAT around town. By around town, I mean a 200 mile round trip.

Are you saying that it only take 30 minutes to fully charge an electric vehicle?

[Hardlyworking]

Are you saying that it only take 30 minutes to fully charge an electric vehicle?

Not 100%. At a Super Charger you can add around 200 miles in 15-20 minutes. The car will plan your recharge stops for you, route you to the charging station and precondition the batteries for you.

[MartinSE]

Are you saying that it only take 30 minutes to fully charge an electric vehicle?

I don’t believe I said fully. Are you saying you drive 1000 miles without eating or peeing? Are you saying you can actually average 70 mph for 15 hours without breaking the law?

I weighted the numbers in favor of ICE.

[Aces4]

What brief time line would that be? Yours? I have said, and no one has disputed, that to replace the 300,000,000 ICE vehicles on the road and provide the infrastructure to support the TVs will take at least 30 years.

If by brief timeline you mean to get started, well, that can happen today. Or we could put it off until it is perfect - meaning forever.

And cost, everyones favorite whipping boy is Tesla, and claims of $70K, not many mention Chevy Bolt EUV around $38K. Seems to me, when you consider the cost of maintenance on an ICE the Chevy is about 1/2 the cost or less of the ICE competition.


There isn’t a “start” today, there is a vicious push. It’s not so much a problem of the elderly with fat pockets. The high cost and lack of fuel is cutting the backs of the lower to middle income people/families in a phony race to lower pollution as the fat cats jet around the world.

[Aces4]

You argument is exactly the issue with America today If something can't fix every thing it isn't work doing.

Solar DOES compete with fossil fuel in most of the world, just not here, it is replacing and augmenting electricity generation is many areas of the world, and is over 25% of electrical generation in some countries.

It is NO philosophy, it is fact.

300,000,000 automobiles compared to 2,000 fighter jets. And you say solar can't compete before it can't provide 2,000 jets.

Right.

And two thousands jets, which were used as an example, are the only other vehicles polluting the earth other than cars. Head in the sand syndrome…

[Aces4]

Then do it in your Gas car, or fly.
No one is forcing anyone to go EV.
No one is stopping ICE for a long time.

Americans are being forced to ev by the manipulation of supply and cost of gasoline. You must have missed that.

[Aces4]

For YEARS forward thinking politicians have been trying to incorporate green energy into our energy plan as a nation. Back in 2007 Al Gore was calling on the US to produce all its energy from zero-carbon sources within 10 years, and look where that got us. The last President dismantled nearly 100 policies focused on clean air, water, wildlife and toxic chemicals.

Oh, yeah, Al Gore:1rotfl:

[Byte1]

I doubt I will live long enough to see an " e'lectric car" become a viable option to the point where I will be purchasing one. My car already gets as good mileage as a hybrid. Don't see as how the hybrid is worth it yet, considering that the only time the battery power works for them is when they are cruising the Villages. And even then, you need to take it out on the road to charge up the battery pack once in a while, my understanding of how it works. Maybe I am wrong, but I have no plan to invest in something that gives me the same service I currently get at a cheaper price. I bet arguments go both ways, but I still enjoy burning fossil fuel, and I am progressive enough to change to synthetic lube.

[MartinSE]

I don't understand the half cost for maintenance. The only maintenance I do on my car are oil changes, brakes, and tires. Oil changes are $40, and I assume that an electric vehicle needs tires and brakes. Also, can you get a brake job on an electric vehicle at a service station, or do you need to go to the dealer, and pay a lot more?

So, you are not typical. Scheduled maintenance required to maintain your cars warranty includes more than your "oil change".

Brakes on TVs wear very slowly because of regeneration braking. At one point Tesla was considering a life time warranty on brakes, since they wear so slowly.

Try googling total cost of ownership of cars ev vs ICE. It will explain why TVs are actually less expensive to own even if they cost more up front.

[MartinSE]

There isn’t a “start” today, there is a vicious push. It’s not so much a problem of the elderly with fat pockets. The high cost and lack of fuel is cutting the backs of the lower to middle income people/families in a phony race to lower pollution as the fat cats jet around the world.

Please define vicious push? There are incentives, there is NOTHING penalizing you for buying ICE.

Please correct me. Vicious - LOL! I rank this as the funniest comment in this thread.

[MartinSE]

Americans are being forced to ev by the manipulation of supply and cost of gasoline. You must have missed that.

Proof please, conspiracies are wonderful, since they require no proof, just belief.

[MartinSE]

And two thousands jets, which were used as an example, are the only other vehicles polluting the earth other than cars. Head in the sand syndrome…

My head is not in the sand, you are the one mentioning Jets, not me.

OTR Trucks are going electric (and full self driving) Container ships are going wind and solar, cars are obviously going EV with every major automanfactuer annoying that (I guess they all are in on the conspiracy). Trains in most of the world are and having been electric. On and on, and the example you want to argue over are a very specialized application of fighter jets.

If you actually did some reading, you would find commercial passenger jets are a serious problem, and we don't have an alternative on that yet.

So, I guess, you are right, we should do NOTHING until we can solve EVERYTHING.

jeez.

[jimjamuser]

I don't understand the half cost for maintenance. The only maintenance I do on my car are oil changes, brakes, and tires. Oil changes are $40, and I assume that an electric vehicle needs tires and brakes. Also, can you get a brake job on an electric vehicle at a service station, or do you need to go to the dealer, and pay a lot more?
You also need to change the air filter regularly and flush and change the radiator fluid. The injectors need to be flushed or changed on a regular basis. And there are some items in the smog control system that need to be changed regularly. And a catalytic converter needs to be changed after a few years and that is expensive. In Florida the heat causes the starter batteries to go bad as often as every 3 years. So, basically, there are MORE maintenance costs with an IC engine than with an Electrical motor,

[jimjamuser]

I don’t believe I said fully. Are you saying you drive 1000 miles without eating or peeing? Are you saying you can actually average 70 mph for 15 hours without breaking the law?

I weighted the numbers in favor of ICE.
No one averages 70 mph on a cross-country trip. It is hard to do 50 mph. You run into unforeseen traffic jams and accidents.

[retiredguy123]

You also need to change the air filter regularly and flush and change the radiator fluid. The injectors need to be flushed or changed on a regular basis. And there are some items in the smog control system that need to be changed regularly. And a catalytic converter needs to be changed after a few years and that is expensive. In Florida the heat causes the starter batteries to go bad as often as every 3 years. So, basically, there are MORE maintenance costs with an IC engine than with an Electrical motor,
I have not done any of those things to cars that I have owned, except that I do replace the battery about every 4 or 5 years. Although, the new AGM (absorbent glass mat) batteries are supposed to last about 6 or 7 years.

[jimjamuser]

Americans are being forced to ev by the manipulation of supply and cost of gasoline. You must have missed that.
The war in the Ukraine and the cutting off of oil and gas to Europe are what "manipulated" the price of gasoline (which is coming down recently). Oil and gas prices are controlled by global conditions - not by anyone in the US.

[MartinSE]

No one averages 70 mph on a cross-country trip. It is hard to do 50 mph. You run into unforeseen traffic jams and accidents.

Exactly I said I weighted the numbers in favor of the ICE. Even there the difference is negligible.

Also, I guess I need to withdraw some of my objections - I mean just the other day a dealer threaten to VICIOUSLY force me to take thousands of dollars if I purchased an EV.

[Stu from NYC]

The war in the Ukraine and the cutting off of oil and gas to Europe are what "manipulated" the price of gasoline (which is coming down recently). Oil and gas prices are controlled by global conditions - not by anyone in the US.

When the oil companies cut back production it does affect the price

[fishon]

Shutting down Keystone pipeline was the game changer driving up futures and then prices.

[biker1]

Nonsense. I have never flushed or changed injectors and I have never had a car where this was a recommended maintenance procedure. I have never changed any items in the smog control system. I have never changed a catalytic converter. Starter batteries do need to be replaced every 3-5 years. Antifreeze is typically good for about 5-10 years. The antifreeze that is used to control the temperature of an EV battery will also need periodic replacing.

You also need to change the air filter regularly and flush and change the radiator fluid. The injectors need to be flushed or changed on a regular basis. And there are some items in the smog control system that need to be changed regularly. And a catalytic converter needs to be changed after a few years and that is expensive. In Florida the heat causes the starter batteries to go bad as often as every 3 years. So, basically, there are MORE maintenance costs with an IC engine than with an Electrical motor,

[Two Bills]

Shutting down Keystone pipeline was the game changer driving up futures and then prices.

BS.
It was never open.
Would have taken two or more years to finish.
It was tar oil. The dirtiest most expensive stuff to produce, and refine, and all for export.
Would not have made a jot of difference to the oil/gas price and shortage today, even if construction had continued.
Covid and lack of world demand, reduced sales and production.
Post Covid, big demand, and world wide shortages.
The market rules!

[jimjamuser]

Exactly I said I weighted the numbers in favor of the ICE. Even there the difference is negligible.

Also, I guess I need to withdraw some of my objections - I mean just the other day a dealer threaten to VICIOUSLY force me to take thousands of dollars if I purchased an EV.
Another thing that most people do not realize about an IC gasoline engine is that they do not like to idle - they are NOT efficient AT LOW RPMs. To idle slowly they must be run RICH (in gas to air ratio) - then they give off more pollution. So, traffic jams are bad for mph, mpg, and pollution per mile. Diesel engines are better than gas for idle efficiency. (that is why the truckers sleep with A/C or heaters on and engines running at rest stops) The Electric Vehicle motor has none of these problems.

In general, the time lost and extra energy for idling are the INCREASED costs of traffic jams that are increasing due to the lack of additional LANES, which appear to be held up by a lack of transportation funding. And the population growth is greater than the growth of road maintenance money. The US is being penny-wise and dollar-foolish!

[Kenswing]

Another thing that most people do not realize about an IC gasoline engine is that they do not like to idle - they are NOT efficient AT LOW RPMs. To idle slowly they must be run RICH (in gas to air ratio) - then they give off more pollution. So, traffic jams are bad for mph, mpg, and pollution per mile. Diesel engines are better than gas for idle efficiency. (that is why the truckers sleep with A/C or heaters on and engines running at rest stops) The Electric Vehicle motor has none of these problems.

In general, the time lost and extra energy for idling are the INCREASED costs of traffic jams that are increasing due to the lack of additional LANES, which appear to be held up by a lack of transportation funding. And the population growth is greater than the growth of road maintenance money. The US is being penny-wise and dollar-foolish!Do cars even idle anymore? The last couple of cars we rented while traveling shut off when you came to a stop, kinda like a golf cart.

[MartinSE]

Another thing that most people do not realize about an IC gasoline engine is that they do not like to idle - they are NOT efficient AT LOW RPMs. To idle slowly they must be run RICH (in gas to air ratio) - then they give off more pollution. So, traffic jams are bad for mph, mpg, and pollution per mile. Diesel engines are better than gas for idle efficiency. (that is why the truckers sleep with A/C or heaters on and engines running at rest stops) The Electric Vehicle motor has none of these problems.

In general, the time lost and extra energy for idling are the INCREASED costs of traffic jams that are increasing due to the lack of additional LANES, which appear to be held up by a lack of transportation funding. And the population growth is greater than the growth of road maintenance money. The US is being penny-wise and dollar-foolish!

I agree with you. Mass transit (electric trains) and Time shared EVs will help significantly with all those. And an added advantage of good quietly mass transit would be reduction of number of cars on the roads, reducing transit time, riding, etc, etc, etc.

But, you know, I got rights damn it.

[Hardlyworking]

BS.
It was never open.
Would have taken two or more years to finish.
It was tar oil. The dirtiest most expensive stuff to produce, and refine, and all for export.
Would not have made a jot of difference to the oil/gas price and shortage today, even if construction had continued.
Covid and lack of world demand, reduced sales and production.
Post Covid, big demand, and world wide shortages.
The market rules!

BS. The Keystone XL was never open. That was Phase IV. The other three phases are open and running.

[manaboutown]

I agree with you. Mass transit (electric trains) and Time shared EVs will help significantly with all those. And an added advantage of good quietly mass transit would be reduction of number of cars on the roads, reducing transit time, riding, etc, etc, etc.

But, you know, I got rights damn it.

When the "elites" give up their limos, yachts and private jets and switch to mass transit so will I. That day will never come of course. Outrage as VIPs take private jets to climate summit (https://pagesix.com/2021/11/01/outrage-as-vips-take-private-jets-to-climate-summit/)

[MartinSE]

When the "elites" give up their limos, yachts and private jets and switch to mass transit so will I. That day will never come of course. Outrage as VIPs take private jets to climate summit (https://pagesix.com/2021/11/01/outrage-as-vips-take-private-jets-to-climate-summit/)

Yes, lets all base our lives on the elites. Good plan for our grandchildren. But, I understand I got mind damn it, screw everyone else.

[retiredguy123]

Nonsense. I have never flushed or changed injectors and I have never had a car where this was a recommended maintenance procedure. I have never changed any items in the smog control system. I have never changed a catalytic converter. Starter batteries do need to be replaced every 3-5 years. Antifreeze is typically good for about 5-10 years. The antifreeze that is used to control the temperature of an EV battery will also need periodic replacing.
I don't even do the things the manufacturer recommends, except to change the oil, and replace the brakes and tires when they are worn out.

[Two Bills]

BS. The Keystone XL was never open. That was Phase IV. The other three phases are open and running.

.....and making not a jot of difference to word price or supply.

[MartinSE]

I don't even do the things the manufacturer recommends, except to change the oil, and replace the brakes and tires when they are worn out.

Pease remind me to NEVER buy a used car that you have owned.

[manaboutown]

Yes, lets all base our lives on the elites. Good plan for our grandchildren. But, I understand I got mind damn it, screw everyone else.

It seems to me the elites have theirs and a heck of a lot of ours and could care less about their own carbon footprints or our grandchildren. They care only about their opulent privileged lifestyles. The "Let them eat cake!' attitude of a past age today is let the peons take public transportation, turn their heat down and wear sweaters in winter, set A/Cs (if they are lucky enough to have them) at higher temperatures during the summers. Oh...and eat fake meat!

[manaboutown]

Pease remind me to NEVER buy a used car that you have owned.

I thought you only bought EVs? He drives ICE vehicles.

[MartinSE]

I thought you only bought EVs? He drives ICE vehicles.

Lots of you's and he's. Not sure who you are talking about.

I don't drive an EV our current cars are fine 11 year old Jaguar and 15 year old Lexus). Our next car will be an EV and will have FSD. As I have said every time this thread gets repeated and all the same nonsense arguments about EVs come out.

[Tvflguy]

IMO EVs ARE the future for most modes of transportation. It’s simply inevitable.

But those stating conversion MUST be done NOW are simply fanatical. And as for planet’s pollution it will be Decades until so many Asian and poor countries will convert. And they will pump plenty of bad stuff into OUR air. So our economy will take a serious hit in these years.

I’m all for EVs but in a sane and steady manner. Build the electric infrastructure while the EV tech develops to a higher degree. Maintain fossil fuel production dependent on demands.

As with so many issues I the country folks “in charge” make it a take sides thing. Grrrr

[manaboutown]

IMO EVs ARE the future for most modes of transportation. It’s simply inevitable.

But those stating conversion MUST be done NOW are simply fanatical. And as for planet’s pollution it will be Decades until so many Asian and poor countries will convert. And they will pump plenty of bad stuff into OUR air. So our economy will take a serious hit in these years.

I’m all for EVs but in a sane and steady manner. Build the electric infrastructure while the EV tech develops to a higher degree. Maintain fossil fuel production dependent on demands.

As with so many issues I the country folks “in charge” make it a take sides thing. Grrrr

:agree:

[Nucky]

With all the news re Electric vehicles, how likely are YOU to purchase one? If not, why not?

For me, our 5 year old gas vehicle is perfectly fine for many many years. And at our tax rate cannot use any Tax Credit to lower price. But if our situation changed I would consider.

My wife put a deposit on a Cybertruck the same day two of our sons did. As time went by and the story and timeline kept changing I asked for her money back.

I wouldn't wait in line at Texas Road House for an hour, no chance I'm going to wait years for this truck.

My son kept his money on the Cybertruck and then bought a Plaid last year. When we went to visit this year he offered me the car and I declined. You have to drive it to believe it. A man has to know his limitations.

I would get an electric vehicle at some point. Why not?

There were available charging stations from here to N.J. all over the place.

[jimjamuser]

Nonsense. I have never flushed or changed injectors and I have never had a car where this was a recommended maintenance procedure. I have never changed any items in the smog control system. I have never changed a catalytic converter. Starter batteries do need to be replaced every 3-5 years. Antifreeze is typically good for about 5-10 years. The antifreeze that is used to control the temperature of an EV battery will also need periodic replacing.
There is an ERG valve in smog control systems that needs to be replaced periodically. And there is a charcoal filter tank, also. Many people trade their car every 2 to 4 years, so it would be the 2nd owner that had BETTER do the maintenance.

[jimjamuser]

When the oil companies cut back production it does affect the price
Yes, they DID cut back production because of less DEMAND during the Pandemic. That has been over for a while. But, some people think that the oil companies were PURPOSEFULLY slow to bring back production to KEEP gas prices HIGH. We will probably NEVER know the real truth on that one.

[jimjamuser]

Yes, they DID cut back production because of less DEMAND during the Pandemic. That has been over for a while. But, some people think that the oil companies were PURPOSEFULLY slow to bring back production to KEEP gas prices HIGH. We will probably NEVER know the real truth on that one.

[jimjamuser]

Shutting down Keystone pipeline was the game changer driving up futures and then prices.
Oil is BIG business and like most ALL BIG businesses, they have ZERO regard for the typical US citizen and their need for clean air, water, and environment. That is where government becomes the referee between the opposing factions (just like teams and sports)

[jimjamuser]

Do cars even idle anymore? The last couple of cars we rented while traveling shut off when you came to a stop, kinda like a golf cart.
Good question.......I would like to know what % of vehicles have that feature. And all hybrids would do that for the 1st xxxxx number of miles.

[Nucky]

Exactly what happened last January between Fredericksburg and Richmond when a big winter storm closed the highway overnight on a very cold night. Hundreds of EV’s drained their batteries trying to stay warm overnight. When the road finally opened it was gridlock, clogged up with dead EV’s everywhere. It took another half day to tow them away.

There is a very high probability that if we do go for an electric vehicle it probably would not go any further than The Keys. I would never get into a situation like those poor people had to endure. If they had a Cybertruck they could have used the Gas Generator that they could be carrying in the truck's bed to give the truck a little juice. lol

[jimjamuser]

When the "elites" give up their limos, yachts and private jets and switch to mass transit so will I. That day will never come of course. Outrage as VIPs take private jets to climate summit (https://pagesix.com/2021/11/01/outrage-as-vips-take-private-jets-to-climate-summit/)
It is always easy to come up with a justification for ANYTHING or an outlier example. There are many versions of, Teacher, teacher, I don't have to do the right thing because Johnny did NOT do the right thing. "I'll wait for the INNOVATION to become the NORM before I lend my name to it."

[biker1]

Nope. You are making this crap up. If you are referring to the PVC valve, it is easily cleaned. Read your owner’s manual. I would love to be your mechanic - I could put my kids through Harvard fleecing you - LOL.



There is an ERG valve in smog control systems that needs to be replaced periodically. And there is a charcoal filter tank, also. Many people trade their car every 2 to 4 years, so it would be the 2nd owner that had BETTER do the maintenance.

[jimjamuser]

It seems to me the elites have theirs and a heck of a lot of ours and could care less about their own carbon footprints or our grandchildren. They care only about their opulent privileged lifestyles. The "Let them eat cake!' attitude of a past age today is let the peons take public transportation, turn their heat down and wear sweaters in winter, set A/Cs (if they are lucky enough to have them) at higher temperatures during the summers. Oh...and eat fake meat!
Young people have a FUTURE and they CARE about the health of the planet. Personally, I LOVE what Greta Tuneberg says and does! She drives an Ebike around.

[biker1]

At least learn to spell her name correctly. If feel sorry for you if a high school kid is your idol.

Young people have a FUTURE and they CARE about the health of the planet. Personally, I LOVE what Greta Tuneberg says and does! She drives an Ebike around.

[jimjamuser]

Nope. You are making this crap up. If you are referring to the PVC valve, it is easily cleaned. Read your owner’s manual. I would love to be your mechanic - I could put my kids through Harvard fleecing you - LOL.
Cute

[biker1]

Educate yourself before posting.

Cute

[jimjamuser]

At least learn to spell her name correctly. If feel sorry for you if a high school kid is your idol.
double cute ............and I could care less about spealinkin

[biker1]

And I could care less about your opinion. Feel free to carry on your nonsense with someone else.


double cute ............and I could care less about spealinkin

[Aces4]

The war in the Ukraine and the cutting off of oil and gas to Europe are what "manipulated" the price of gasoline (which is coming down recently). Oil and gas prices are controlled by global conditions - not by anyone in the US.

You can believe that bullroar if you want but the war in Ukraine has not created this problem.

[Kenswing]

Nope. You are making this crap up. If you are referring to the PVC valve, it is easily cleaned. Read your owner’s manual. I would love to be your mechanic - I could put my kids through Harvard fleecing you - LOL.
It's a well known fact that he makes things up. He's even admitted as much in the latest gun control thread that was closed.