Grocery Store plastic bags

[Darield]

I am amazed that Florida still allows the use of plastic bags in grocery stores. So many other states have banned it. We now have microplastics (very small plastic particles) in our agriculture soil, ocean and just about anywhere you can think of. There are so many studies that verify the dangers of plastics and I cringe every time I go to the grocery store and see 10-20-30 plastic bags per cart. Just one Publics said they can go through thousands of plastic bags in a day. Here is one link that talks about how serious this problem has gotten. It's our new DDT.How microplastics are infiltrating the food you eat (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230103-how-plastic-is-getting-into-our-food) . There are now studies beiing done of earthworms ingesting micro-plastics. ScienceDirect (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969721061003)

[Stu from NYC]

This will be interesting

[Bill14564]

Are there more microplastics in the food chain or have we gotten better at detecting them and picked this as the next focus for our hysteria?

[Keefelane66]

It’s not just plastic bags it’s all plastics. We have abandoned recycling in The Villages opting to burn plastics trash to energy.

[ThirdOfFive]

I am amazed that Florida still allows the use of plastic bags in grocery stores. So many other states have banned it. We now have microplastics (very small plastic particles) in our agriculture soil, ocean and just about anywhere you can think of. There are so many studies that verify the dangers of plastics and I cringe every time I go to the grocery store and see 10-20-30 plastic bags per cart. Just one Publics said they can go through thousands of plastic bags in a day. Here is one link that talks about how serious this problem has gotten. It's our new DDT.How microplastics are infiltrating the food you eat (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230103-how-plastic-is-getting-into-our-food) . There are now studies beiing done of earthworms ingesting micro-plastics. ScienceDirect (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969721061003)
All Villages trash is transported to the Covanta Lake II, Inc. Energy from Waste (EfW) facility in Okahumpka, Florida where it is burned and turned into energy. This plant produces enough electricity to power more than one million homes annually, while reducing the amount of methane, a greenhouse gas that would otherwise be produced by the trash going to landfills and that is more than 28 times as potent as carbon dioxide at trapping heat in the atmosphere, to zero. The site diverts 21 million tons of waste annually from landfills, while at the same time recycling 1.1 million tons of material, of which 550,000 tons are metals, annually. It does this in an essentially clean manner: Over 99.9 percent of what is discharged into the air is what is typically find in air - water vapor, nitrogen, oxygen, and carbon dioxide. The remaining constituents are well below federal and state standards. (from the Covanta website).

Looks as if our plastics are being put to very good use.

[Shipping up to Boston]

I needed this one. Thank you for posting this topic. The problem is most stores that have adopted paper over plastic, are not giving you the same integrity of paper like when you grew up. Its recycled and has no durability. There are composite 'plastic' bags available also of recycled material that can handle groceries. How many people I see playing 52 pickup in the parking lots of food chains. Ridiculous. And they charge you for the privilege! To me the cost of any bag should be the cost of doing business...borne by the business. Since I feel I'm a responsible person, I look for stores that offer the recycled plastic option....and dont charge. Strictly on principle. And no, I'm all set with bringing my own bags in...

[walterray1]

I am amazed that Florida still allows the use of plastic bags in grocery stores. So many other states have banned it. We now have microplastics (very small plastic particles) in our agriculture soil, ocean and just about anywhere you can think of. There are so many studies that verify the dangers of plastics and I cringe every time I go to the grocery store and see 10-20-30 plastic bags per cart. Just one Publics said they can go through thousands of plastic bags in a day. Here is one link that talks about how serious this problem has gotten. It's our new DDT.How microplastics are infiltrating the food you eat (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230103-how-plastic-is-getting-into-our-food) . There are now studies beiing done of earthworms ingesting micro-plastics. ScienceDirect (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969721061003)

If I don't get my daily plastic fix I go into withdrawal. Just another thing to complain about.

[Bogie Shooter]

No big deal, just take reusable bags with me into the store.

[asianthree]

Commissary’s uses paper to bag their groceries, bags are free, but……..

You TIP the person who bags them.

My guess is those who loathe buying a plastic bag may stiff the person (usually a military teen) who is a volunteer, and tips are their only reward.

We not only have them bag (you will never see a more efficient packed bag in your life) they take groceries to your car load as effectively as their bagging skills.

We tip $10, much more than the .10 everyone is so unhappy to buy.

Then again .10 if I forgot enough bags, or $10 to bag, not a dealbreaker for us

[CarlR33]

If I don't get my daily plastic fix I go into withdrawal. Just another thing to complain about. I did not see it as a complaint but more a concern. The Covanta site about trash burning is an interesting read. Apparently, we do not embrace trash burning while Europe does. (According the HuffPost article linked from the Covanta site).

[Pondboy]

Are there more microplastics in the food chain or have we gotten better at detecting them and picked this as the next focus for our hysteria?

We’ve gotten better at detecting them. Not sure I’d call it hysteria, just clarification on what impact plastic has on us, our environment and future generations.

The oil and gas industry pulled the wool over our eyes by making us believe that plastic was so much better than paper. Here we are 20 years later with all types of particulates floating in our oceans and blood streams. It’s bad for the environment, no matter how you look at it.

Thanks to the OP for posting it. I’ve brought my own bags to the grocery stores for years instead of using plastic ones provided. Europeans have been doing it for decades.

I hope that more people will understand how harmful plastic is to the environment. Future generations will look back upon us and wonder how we could be so stupid.

I hope your not still using Teflon cookware….thats more crap that’s poisoned us….

[Pugchief]

Commissary’s uses paper to bag their groceries, bags are free, but……..

You TIP the person who bags them.

My guess is those who loathe buying a plastic bag may stiff the person (usually a military teen) who is a volunteer, and tips are their only reward.

We not only have them bag (you will never see a more efficient packed bag in your life) they take groceries to your car load as effectively as their bagging skills.

We tip $10, much more than the .10 everyone is so unhappy to buy.

Then again .10 if I forgot enough bags, or $10 to bag, not a dealbreaker for us

If they are a volunteer, why would they expect a tip? And why do you feel obligated to offer one? Very generous of you, but seems contrary to the spirit of volunteer work.

[Shipping up to Boston]

We’ve gotten better at detecting them. Not sure I’d call it hysteria, just clarification on what impact plastic has on us, our environment and future generations.

The oil and gas industry pulled the wool over our eyes by making us believe that plastic was so much better than paper. Here we are 20 years later with all types of particulates floating in our oceans and blood streams. It’s bad for the environment, no matter how you look at it.

Thanks to the OP for posting it. I’ve brought my own bags to the grocery stores for years instead of using plastic ones provided. Europeans have been doing it for decades.

I hope that more people will understand how harmful plastic is to the environment. Future generations will look back upon us and wonder how we could be so stupid.

I hope your not still using Teflon cookware….thats more crap that’s poisoned us….

Is my 20 year old cast iron skillet ok?

[Pugchief]

Are there more microplastics in the food chain or have we gotten better at detecting them and picked this as the next focus for our hysteria?

It's probably a legitimate concern, but I agree with your premise that there always seems to be a hysteria du jour. I think the elites like distracting us from their corruption, forever wars and money printing with scary scenarios to concern ourselves with.

[retiredguy123]

Question

Truthfully, I am not concerned about the environment. I use the free plastic bags at Publix and throw them away. But, I am not a snowbird who heats, cools, and maintains two houses year round. I don't have anything against snowbirds, but isn't that worse for the environment than using plastic grocery bags?

[golfing eagles]

I am amazed that Florida still allows the use of plastic bags in grocery stores. So many other states have banned it. We now have microplastics (very small plastic particles) in our agriculture soil, ocean and just about anywhere you can think of. There are so many studies that verify the dangers of plastics and I cringe every time I go to the grocery store and see 10-20-30 plastic bags per cart. Just one Publics said they can go through thousands of plastic bags in a day. Here is one link that talks about how serious this problem has gotten. It's our new DDT.How microplastics are infiltrating the food you eat (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230103-how-plastic-is-getting-into-our-food) . There are now studies beiing done of earthworms ingesting micro-plastics. ScienceDirect (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969721061003)

I'm amazed that "other states" ban them. And by "other states" I assume it's California (no surprise there). Thank God Florida has some rational lawmakers. The Graduate, 1967, "I want to say one word to you, Benjamin. Just one word.---Plastics"
Or more germane to that post, "Chicken Little, the sky is falling" :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[shut the front door]

If they are a volunteer, why would they expect a tip? And why do you feel obligated to offer one? Very generous of you, but seems contrary to the spirit of volunteer work.

If you don't tip, you can't go on message boards and tell everyone how much you tip!
Actually, you could. Makes one wonder how much virtue signaling is made up.

[golfing eagles]

If you don't tip, you can't go on message boards and tell everyone how much you tip!
Actually, you could. Makes one wonder how much virtue signaling is made up.

Like the OP?????

[Dusty_Star]

I am amazed that Florida still allows the use of plastic bags in grocery stores. ... every time I go to the grocery store and see 10-20-30 plastic bags per cart. ]

1. People can bring their own bags to the store.
2. They can also stop nosing around with what other people are doing.


Virtue signaling & living a happier life. :pepper2::pepper2::pepper2:

[Gpsma]

But how can we pick up dog and cat poop without plastic bags!!

[golfing eagles]

But how can we pick up dog and cat poop without plastic bags!!

Good point.

Also without plastic bags, how would we carry all the food that is packaged in plastic?
The plastic bag weighs about 6 grams, but can hold 1000x its own weight. You can eliminate a few grams of plastic by bringing a reusable bag, but I don't think anyone wants to be buying their groceries in a reused (not recycled, reused) package

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

But how can we pick up dog and cat poop without plastic bags!!

You should be using the bags that the Daily Sun comes in every day for the dogs. That's good for at least 1 poop every day!

I do re-use those plastic grocery bags to clean the little box for my cat. And I use an unscented clay-based litter, which makes the litter itself biodegradable and non-toxic to the environment (the cat's waste is - toxic. But the litter is not).

If I didn't have a cat, I'd always use re-usable bags I bring from home (I have several and do use the thermal one often).

Also, Publix has bins where you can toss your unwanted plastic bags, and they recycle them. Their green plastic hand-baskets are made out of recycled plastic too.

[golfing eagles]

You should be using the bags that the Daily Sun comes in every day for the dogs. That's good for at least 1 poop every day!

I do re-use those plastic grocery bags to clean the little box for my cat. And I use an unscented clay-based litter, which makes the litter itself biodegradable and non-toxic to the environment (the cat's waste is - toxic. But the litter is not).

If I didn't have a cat, I'd always use re-usable bags I bring from home (I have several and do use the thermal one often).

Also, Publix has bins where you can toss your unwanted plastic bags, and they recycle them. Their green plastic hand-baskets are made out of recycled plastic too.

Your cat's waste is toxic???? I suppose it is if he has Toxoplasma gondii. Otherwise, I doubt it amounts to much compared to many thousands of lions and tigers and bears (oh my, oh my:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:)

[Velvet]

OP you are talking about the “dark ages”. I prefer plastic bags, especially if they are burnt in the garbage and reduce our energy bill. True recycling. Not only are plastic bags hygienic and convenient but I use them for all kinds of things at home that I can’t use paper bags for. I think we’ve got it right, here. The Villages is again ahead of everybody.

[Kenswing]

What’s the point of getting rid of plastic bags when so many of the products we put in those bags are in plastic containers? If it makes you feel better putting all those plastic containers in a paper bag go for it.

[frayedends]

We have towns in MA that don’t allow plastic bags. So they put my laundry detergent (plastic jug), produce (plastic bags), vegetable oil (plastic container) and everything else packaged in plastic into a weak paper bag that’s hard to carry and tears open.

Not to mention, our eyeglasses are plastic, our shoes, our clothes, desks, cars have tons of plastic, computers are plastic, k-cups are plastic, aluminum cans are lined with plastic, windows, siding, picture frames, plugs. It's in everything.

I think plastic is a big problem. I just don’t see supermarket bags doing much at all.

[coffeebean]

It’s not just plastic bags it’s all plastics. We have abandoned recycling in The Villages opting to burn plastics trash to energy.

But.......isn't burning trash to energy still recycling? The trash is recycled into energy. Isn't that STILL recycling the trash?

[Velvet]

But.......isn't burning trash to energy still recycling? The trash is recycled into energy. Isn't that STILL recycling the trash?

Not everybody studied science…

[coffeebean]

All Villages trash is transported to the Covanta Lake II, Inc. Energy from Waste (EfW) facility in Okahumpka, Florida where it is burned and turned into energy. This plant produces enough electricity to power more than one million homes annually, while reducing the amount of methane, a greenhouse gas that would otherwise be produced by the trash going to landfills and that is more than 28 times as potent as carbon dioxide at trapping heat in the atmosphere, to zero. The site diverts 21 million tons of waste annually from landfills, while at the same time recycling 1.1 million tons of material, of which 550,000 tons are metals, annually. It does this in an essentially clean manner: Over 99.9 percent of what is discharged into the air is what is typically find in air - water vapor, nitrogen, oxygen, and carbon dioxide. The remaining constituents are well below federal and state standards. (from the Covanta website).

Looks as if our plastics are being put to very good use.

You took the words right out of my mouth. That is clean recycling. I still don't understand why people make comments that The Villages does not recycle anymore.

[coffeebean]

I'm amazed that "other states" ban them. And by "other states" I assume it's California (no surprise there). Thank God Florida has some rational lawmakers. The Graduate, 1967, "I want to say one word to you, Benjamin. Just one word.---Plastics"
Or more germane to that post, "Chicken Little, the sky is falling" :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

I think of that line from "The Graduate" every single time anyone brings up the subject of how damaging plastics are to our universe. It makes me chuckle.

[fdpaq0580]

Are there more microplastics in the food chain or have we gotten better at detecting them and picked this as the next focus for our hysteria?

Most likely a bit of both.

[coffeebean]

What’s the point of getting rid of plastic bags when so many of the products we put in those bags are in plastic containers? If it makes you feel better putting all those plastic containers in a paper bag go for it.

I never requested paper bags for groceries. The folds in the bags are where insects lay their eggs. Or so I have thought for many years of hearing that. I never want any paper bags in our home.

[Bill14564]

But.......isn't burning trash to energy still recycling? The trash is recycled into energy. Isn't that STILL recycling the trash?

That is not the common definition of recycling. The common definition is recovering the material from an item so that it can be used again as that same material - re-cycling. Aluminum from cans can be reused as aluminum; glass from bottles can be reused as glass; plastics can be reused as plastics.

Our trash isn't recycled into energy, it is destroyed (burned) to extract energy. Except for some metals, the original material no longer exists to be reused.

I suppose if you insist on calling trash-to-energy a form of recycling then every engine that burns a petroleum product is also a recycling system that recycles oil into energy.

[Velvet]

That is not the common definition of recycling. The common definition is recovering the material from an item so that it can be used again as that same material - re-cycling. Aluminum from cans can be reused as aluminum; glass from bottles can be reused as glass; plastics can be reused as plastics.

Our trash isn't recycled into energy, it is destroyed (burned) to extract energy. Except for some metals, the original material no longer exists to be reused.

I suppose if you insist on calling trash-to-energy a form of recycling then every engine that burns a petroleum product is also a recycling system that recycles oil into energy.

Yes, I think so. And it is particularly nice to have clean process as well. Energy has far more potential use than plastic. I guess “recycling” is a limited term indicating reuse. But the term has had a sort of an unwarranted halo attached to it. I do understand concern when plastics are not burnt but thrown into landfills and oceans. People can do better, and in our case, we do.

[Dusty_Star]

That is not the common definition of recycling. The common definition is recovering the material from an item so that it can be used again as that same material - re-cycling. Aluminum from cans can be reused as aluminum; glass from bottles can be reused as glass; plastics can be reused as plastics.

On the other hand, recycling plastics has always been iffy or problematic.

New report unveils what plastic makers knew about recycling : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2024/02/15/1231690415/plastic-recycling-waste-oil-fossil-fuels-climate-change)

Generally, municpalities, ship the plastics collected in recycling bins (eventually) to third world countries, many of whom dump them in the oceans.

https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/GreenpeaceUSA_ForeverToxic_ENG.pdf

[Bill14564]

Yes, I think so. And it is particularly nice to have clean process as well. Energy has far more potential use than plastic. I guess “recycling” is a limited term indicating reuse. But the term has had a sort of an unwarranted halo attached to it. I do understand concern when plastics are not burnt but thrown into landfills and oceans. People can do better, and in our case, we do.

On the other hand, recycling plastics has always been iffy or problematic.

New report unveils what plastic makers knew about recycling : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2024/02/15/1231690415/plastic-recycling-waste-oil-fossil-fuels-climate-change)

Generally, municpalities, ship the plastics collected in recycling bins (eventually) to third world countries, many of whom dump them in the oceans.

https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/GreenpeaceUSA_ForeverToxic_ENG.pdf

Both these may be true; I didn't claim that recycling was better than burning. I only responded that "trash-to-energy" is not the common definition of the word "recycle."

[fdpaq0580]

That is not the common definition of recycling. The common definition is recovering the material from an item so that it can be used again as that same material - re-cycling. Aluminum from cans can be reused as aluminum; glass from bottles can be reused as glass; plastics can be reused as plastics.

Our trash isn't recycled into energy, it is destroyed (burned) to extract energy. Except for some metals, the original material no longer exists to be reused.

I suppose if you insist on calling trash-to-energy a form of recycling then every engine that burns a petroleum product is also a recycling system that recycles oil into energy.

Burning leaves various kinds of altered materials behind. Like wood fire in a fireplace leaves ashes and smoke and various gases, burnt trash leaves stuff, too. What kinds of stuff depends on what the trash consists of. So, the questions I have are, what does the waste from burning consist of (metals, glass, plastic gunk, ash)? Is any of the waste toxic or harmful to the environment in any way.? How is the residue or waste from burning disposed of. What happens to it?
Burning oil, coal, natural gas, to create energy produces some pretty nasty by products. What about trash? Just how clean ( or unclean) is it?

[Dusty_Star]

Both these may be true; I didn't claim that recycling was better than burning. I only responded that "trash-to-energy" is not the common definition of the word "recycle."

& I was responding to "plastics can be reused at plastics'.

[PugMom]

But how can we pick up dog and cat poop without plastic bags!!

you took the words right out of my mouth!!:1rotfl:

[PugMom]

But.......isn't burning trash to energy still recycling? The trash is recycled into energy. Isn't that STILL recycling the trash?

why, YES, it is!!! :bowdown:

[PugMom]

On the other hand, recycling plastics has always been iffy or problematic.

New report unveils what plastic makers knew about recycling : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2024/02/15/1231690415/plastic-recycling-waste-oil-fossil-fuels-climate-change)

Generally, municpalities, ship the plastics collected in recycling bins (eventually) to third world countries, many of whom dump them in the oceans.

https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/GreenpeaceUSA_ForeverToxic_ENG.pdf

and i remember a few years back reading how the 3rd worlders aren't taking it anymore, that they felt we were sending them our trash

[shut the front door]

Your cat's waste is toxic???? I suppose it is if he has Toxoplasma gondii. Otherwise, I doubt it amounts to much compared to many thousands of lions and tigers and bears (oh my, oh my:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:)

Stop bringing logic into this! This thread is about virtue signaling, not common sense!

[barbara828]

Half the produce is in plastic.

[Stu from NYC]

you took the words right out of my mouth!!:1rotfl:

Hopefully just words

[Topspinmo]

It’s not just plastic bags it’s all plastics. We have abandoned recycling in The Villages opting to burn plastics trash to energy.

Don’t plastic burn?

[Topspinmo]

and i remember a few years back reading how the 3rd worlders aren't taking it anymore, that they felt we were sending them our trash

That’s cause they just throw it anywhere. Most 3rd world streets are garbage dumps.

[Darield]

It's probably a legitimate concern, but I agree with your premise that there always seems to be a hysteria du jour. I think the elites like distracting us from their corruption, forever wars and money printing with scary scenarios to concern ourselves with.. I agree that there are plenty of distractions from so much corruption, gas-lighting, etc, but with a background in science, I know this is not the "hysteria du jour". I can't do anything about much of the craziness going on right now in the world but I can do my part by bringing bags when I go shopping at the grocery stores as well as other stores. I asked my local Publix and they use thousands of bags a day. Multiply that by the hundreds of Publix, Walmarts, Winn Dixie, etc.,etc in Florida and the number is astronomical. Many of this plastic ends up in landfills and the ocean.

[asianthree]

If they are a volunteer, why would they expect a tip? And why do you feel obligated to offer one? Very generous of you, but seems contrary to the spirit of volunteer work.

Apparently you have never been to a base to shop. The commissary offers on a voluntary list to work bagging grocery. No wages, government facility, so they volunteer for shifts.

Signs at entrance, cashier, and at the card reader, let you know the young workers are here on a no pay volunteer basis. Tips are not expected, but greatly appreciated.

To keeps line’s moving quickly each line has 1-2 teens. By the time you show your military I’d, your groceries are already on a trolly to be loaded into your car. Bags are packed so perfectly not only by weight, but by category, with frozen packed in double bag, the 70 minute drive, the frozen items are never thawed.

Never have I witnessed people that felt obligated for the services provided by these young teens. But happy to see young people putting forth efforts with zero pay, smile, and that Military respect for the veterans who enter.

In all the years we have shopped on base, have never witnessed any veteran not tip. My guess is almost all veterans that shop on base feel the young people deserve something for their efforts, to take initiative and respect them.

If you don’t want the service, you can use the self checkout, but usually only the uniform service members use them for snacks.

My guess is you would be in the line for I am not going to tip you, but that’s ok, they would still thank you for your service.

Military families serve in their own unique way, and sometimes their sacrifice is the loss of a sibling or parent. Have great respect for what families endure, everyday their parents serve our country.

For us that tip is the least we can do for our military families.

[Papa_lecki]

But how can we pick up dog and cat poop without plastic bags!!

You buy them on Amazon.

You know what else we have to buy now, plastic bags to go in the small trash cans in the bathroom and bedroom.

And the bag that goes in the poop trash can.

DUMB.

[Lea N]

I am amazed that Florida still allows the use of plastic bags in grocery stores. So many other states have banned it. We now have microplastics (very small plastic particles) in our agriculture soil, ocean and just about anywhere you can think of. There are so many studies that verify the dangers of plastics and I cringe every time I go to the grocery store and see 10-20-30 plastic bags per cart. Just one Publics said they can go through thousands of plastic bags in a day. Here is one link that talks about how serious this problem has gotten. It's our new DDT.How microplastics are infiltrating the food you eat (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230103-how-plastic-is-getting-into-our-food) . There are now studies beiing done of earthworms ingesting micro-plastics. ScienceDirect (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969721061003)

Most of the things we buy are packaged in plastic. There is biodegradable plastic and I don't see that being used too often in most packaging. I get glass when I can but it's not always an option. Stores sell plastic bags for us to put our garbage in and this plastic not available as a biodegradable option. Paper bags are made shabbily and break easy. Glass isn't always a safe option but a lot more things could be packaged in glass.

[Eg_cruz]

I am amazed that Florida still allows the use of plastic bags in grocery stores. So many other states have banned it. We now have microplastics (very small plastic particles) in our agriculture soil, ocean and just about anywhere you can think of. There are so many studies that verify the dangers of plastics and I cringe every time I go to the grocery store and see 10-20-30 plastic bags per cart. Just one Publics said they can go through thousands of plastic bags in a day. Here is one link that talks about how serious this problem has gotten. It's our new DDT.How microplastics are infiltrating the food you eat (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230103-how-plastic-is-getting-into-our-food) . There are now studies beiing done of earthworms ingesting micro-plastics. ScienceDirect (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969721061003)
When you cringe over every plastic bag, do you do the same for your ketchup, mustard and mayo bottles, creamer, milk, soda, do you buy garbage bags, tubs of butter, the sad truth is plastic is everywhere.

[bobeaston]

I am amazed that Florida still allows the use of plastic bags in grocery stores. .... ...
Assumptions are dangerous!!!!

Buried behind the original poster's statement, and maybe in the cited articles, is the unspoken assumption that plastics we dispose of are going into landfills. Sure, that was true back in New Jersey, but not here.

All plastic that we put in our trash doesn't get anywhere near those poor earthworms. It goes directly into an incinerator that turns it into electricity for powering our clean running and environmentally harmless Teslas.

[golfing eagles]

Assumptions are dangerous!!!!

Buried behind the original poster's statement, and maybe in the cited articles, is the unspoken assumption that plastics we dispose of are going into landfills. Sure, that was true back in New Jersey, but not here.

All plastic that we put in our trash doesn't get anywhere near those poor earthworms. It goes directly into an incinerator that turns it into electricity for powering our clean running and environmentally harmless Teslas.

Exactly! It seems some others are suggesting solutions in search of a problem.:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

And to those devout environmentalists: It's not the fault of the plastic bag or container that it ends up in the ocean----it's the fault of people not disposing of it correctly. Banning plastic would be like banning cars because some people drive over 100 mph or banning 32 oz. soft drinks because people get fat (oh, yeah, the former communist mayor of NYC did that already)

[crazygery]

Are there more microplastics in the food chain or have we gotten better at detecting them and picked this as the next focus for our hysteria?

Archaeologists are now finding microplastics in ancient remains | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/25/uk/microplastics-archeological-remains-study-scli-intl-scn-gbr?cid=ios_app)

[Two Bills]

Archaeologists are now finding microplastics in ancient remains | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/25/uk/microplastics-archeological-remains-study-scli-intl-scn-gbr?cid=ios_app)

Well, the ancients had to carry their shopping home in something! :icon_wink:

[albertsonw]

Um...Florida. Progressive thinking is banned.

[golfing eagles]

Um...Florida. Progressive thinking is banned.

Thank God for that!

[BobGraves]

Question

Truthfully, I am not concerned about the environment. I use the free plastic bags at Publix and throw them away. But, I am not a snowbird who heats, cools, and maintains two houses year round. I don't have anything against snowbirds, but isn't that worse for the environment than using plastic grocery bags?

I'm one of those snow birds heating and cooling 2 homes... BUT, I bring my free plastic bags back up north with me (where they're banned) to reuse and offset the global warming that I'm contributing to.

[ThirdOfFive]

We have towns in MA that don’t allow plastic bags. So they put my laundry detergent (plastic jug), produce (plastic bags), vegetable oil (plastic container) and everything else packaged in plastic into a weak paper bag that’s hard to carry and tears open.

Not to mention, our eyeglasses are plastic, our shoes, our clothes, desks, cars have tons of plastic, computers are plastic, k-cups are plastic, aluminum cans are lined with plastic, windows, siding, picture frames, plugs. It's in everything.

I think plastic is a big problem. I just don’t see supermarket bags doing much at all.
All true.

Just a couple of other things to add to that list. Styrofoam, which is extruded polystyrene foam (AKA "plastic") is one of the biggest "offenders" when it comes to plastic. It is one of the best insulating materials around. I insulated my garage with it back in Minnesota a few years back--easy to work with; comes in 4' x 8' sheets in whatever thickness you want depending on the insulating property being sought. Styrofoam is everywhere; not just in building construction or remodeling. Just about every large item ordered from Amazon, Costco, etc. comes packaged in the stuff: light, cushioning and can be formed to exactly the shape needed. There are probably dozens of examples as well. Problem with Styrofoam though is that it doesn't degrade, or degrades very slowly, in landfills, plus you can't recycle the stuff. In fact landfills are composed of anywhere from 25% to 35%, by volume, of Styrofoam.

And that doesn't even include the other "offender", expanded polystyrene (EPS), which is used to make all those cups, containers, to-go boxes and bags, etc. etc. etc. that people think are styrofoam but isn't, used once and then tossed by both businesses and consumers, to the tune of eleven million TONS of the stuff. Every year. It might not be Styrofoam but it degrades just as slowly as Styrofoam. And like Styrofoam, it is non-recyclable.

Looking at the problem from that perspective, burning both the styrofoam and expanded polystyrene and turning it into energy, such as is being done here in The Villages, makes a lot of sense. You're getting energy from something that would otherwise just lay in the ground not just taking up space for decades but at the same time leaching harmful chemicals back into the soil. MUCH better to get rid of it by using it as fuel for electricity.

This is just one of the reasons I am so amused by those anti-plastic bag crusaders and their unthinking mantras. It is a great way to show others of like mind how virtuous they may be, I suppose, but in the grand scheme of things it carries all the weight of, say, a spat of flatulence in mid-Katrina.

[Caymus]

Assumptions are dangerous!!!!

Buried behind the original poster's statement, and maybe in the cited articles, is the unspoken assumption that plastics we dispose of are going into landfills. Sure, that was true back in New Jersey, but not here.

All plastic that we put in our trash doesn't get anywhere near those poor earthworms. It goes directly into an incinerator that turns it into electricity for powering our clean running and environmentally harmless Teslas.

I wonder how many BTU's are generated from burning the dog poop in those bags.

[coconutmama]

All Villages trash is transported to the Covanta Lake II, Inc. Energy from Waste (EfW) facility in Okahumpka, Florida where it is burned and turned into energy. This plant produces enough electricity to power more than one million homes annually, while reducing the amount of methane, a greenhouse gas that would otherwise be produced by the trash going to landfills and that is more than 28 times as potent as carbon dioxide at trapping heat in the atmosphere, to zero. The site diverts 21 million tons of waste annually from landfills, while at the same time recycling 1.1 million tons of material, of which 550,000 tons are metals, annually. It does this in an essentially clean manner: Over 99.9 percent of what is discharged into the air is what is typically find in air - water vapor, nitrogen, oxygen, and carbon dioxide. The remaining constituents are well below federal and state standards. (from the Covanta website).

Looks as if our plastics are being put to very good use.

I wonder if they allow tours of their facilities.

[Rapscallion St Croix]

I am amazed that Florida still allows the use of plastic bags in grocery stores. So many other states have banned it. We now have microplastics (very small plastic particles) in our agriculture soil, ocean and just about anywhere you can think of. There are so many studies that verify the dangers of plastics and I cringe every time I go to the grocery store and see 10-20-30 plastic bags per cart. Just one Publics said they can go through thousands of plastic bags in a day. Here is one link that talks about how serious this problem has gotten. It's our new DDT.How microplastics are infiltrating the food you eat (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230103-how-plastic-is-getting-into-our-food) . There are now studies beiing done of earthworms ingesting micro-plastics. ScienceDirect (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969721061003)

Next time you pat yourself on the back while unpacking your paper sack, take note of all the plastic it transported to your home.

[lpkruege1]

I am amazed that Florida still allows the use of plastic bags in grocery stores. So many other states have banned it. We now have microplastics (very small plastic particles) in our agriculture soil, ocean and just about anywhere you can think of. There are so many studies that verify the dangers of plastics and I cringe every time I go to the grocery store and see 10-20-30 plastic bags per cart. Just one Publics said they can go through thousands of plastic bags in a day. Here is one link that talks about how serious this problem has gotten. It's our new DDT.How microplastics are infiltrating the food you eat (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230103-how-plastic-is-getting-into-our-food) . There are now studies beiing done of earthworms ingesting micro-plastics. ScienceDirect (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969721061003)
I agree 100%. We need to go back to a renewable source like paper. They can be used for book cover, trash, fully burnable for energy, and if they do get lost to the wind, they are fully biodegradable. I can't believe some fool hasn't thought of this before now. New clean bags, not those dirty disgusting cloth bags that people bring in. I mean, who know where they've been or what disgusting things are on them.

[ChrisTee]

Um...Florida. Progressive thinking is banned.

We are doomed. It's generational. The "Me" generation is Self-involved, denial, and "to heck with everyone else". Science? Who needs it!

[DrHitch]

All Villages trash is transported to the Covanta Lake II, Inc. Energy from Waste (EfW) facility in Okahumpka, Florida where it is burned and turned into energy.

A good summary of our burning questions! But still we should up-cycle household stuff to Habitat, thrift stores, etc...and cut apart plastic rings to save wildlife

[msirianni]

Why is the plastic bag so offensive to you when about 95% of everything you put in that bag is packaged in PLASTIC.

[ThirdOfFive]

I wonder if they allow tours of their facilities.
I don't know. There is a "virtual tour" that is available (not the real thing, I know, and no opportunity for questions). There were several reviews on the site done by people who had obviously been there, with one rather disgruntled chap bemoaning the fact that they had screwed up his appointment time, so--probably. They do have a contact number listed on their website so it would be easy to find out.

[Canada friends]

I’m from Canada and we are eliminating plastic bags.. When I come to the Villages I’m so disappointed that stores especially Walmart continue to use plastic bags…Why is it that people can spend $400.00 at Costco who don’t offer bags and don’t have an issue…then go to Walmart and use 10 bags for a $50.00 order…Hello people don’t you see what these bags are doing to the environment…

[Caymus]

I’m from Canada and we are eliminating plastic bags.. When I come to the Villages I’m so disappointed that stores especially Walmart continue to use plastic bags…Why is it that people can spend $400.00 at Costco who don’t offer bags and don’t have an issue…then go to Walmart and use 10 bags for a $50.00 order…Hello people don’t you see what these bags are doing to the environment…

Most of the bulk items I buy at Costco don't fit in a bag.

[Eclas]

This will be interesting

yes, it will

[Bill14564]

I’m from Canada and we are eliminating plastic bags.. When I come to the Villages I’m so disappointed that stores especially Walmart continue to use plastic bags…Why is it that people can spend $400.00 at Costco who don’t offer bags and don’t have an issue…then go to Walmart and use 10 bags for a $50.00 order…Hello people don’t you see what these bags are doing to the environment…

That 10-pack of canned tuna that I bought from Sam's along with the 35-pack of soda, the 36-pack of aluminum trays, the large stack of paper plates, and the rotisserie chicken were all wrapped in heavier plastic than Walmart uses for bags.

[Ponygirl]

Hmmm. Not so sure abt powering 1 million homes. That’s seems impossible Not the number that I recall but I will look it up

[trxi6565]

Now go buy a box of tall kitchen PLASTIC garbage bags!!!

I am amazed that Florida still allows the use of plastic bags in grocery stores. So many other states have banned it. We now have microplastics (very small plastic particles) in our agriculture soil, ocean and just about anywhere you can think of. There are so many studies that verify the dangers of plastics and I cringe every time I go to the grocery store and see 10-20-30 plastic bags per cart. Just one Publics said they can go through thousands of plastic bags in a day. Here is one link that talks about how serious this problem has gotten. It's our new DDT.How microplastics are infiltrating the food you eat (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230103-how-plastic-is-getting-into-our-food) . There are now studies beiing done of earthworms ingesting micro-plastics. ScienceDirect (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969721061003)

[wbilbrey99@gmail.com]

They ban plastic bags but almost 90% of what you buy comes in plastic.

[GATORBILL66]

I am amazed that Florida still allows the use of plastic bags in grocery stores. So many other states have banned it. We now have microplastics (very small plastic particles) in our agriculture soil, ocean and just about anywhere you can think of. There are so many studies that verify the dangers of plastics and I cringe every time I go to the grocery store and see 10-20-30 plastic bags per cart. Just one Publics said they can go through thousands of plastic bags in a day. Here is one link that talks about how serious this problem has gotten. It's our new DDT.How microplastics are infiltrating the food you eat (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230103-how-plastic-is-getting-into-our-food) . There are now studies beiing done of earthworms ingesting micro-plastics. ScienceDirect (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969721061003)

Florida also has love bugs and no-see-ems which other states have banned!

[Just jimmy]

It’s not just plastic bags it’s all plastics. We have abandoned recycling in The Villages opting to burn plastics trash to energy.

No one wants our recycles. What are we supposed to do with them. China used to buy them. It’s better to burn them than end up in a landfill.

[morchol]

There are many many products sold in plastic containers and people are worried about plastic grocery bags? What about soda, water, many bulk vegetables, condiments such as ketchup and mustard along with a plethora of other products?

[Shipping up to Boston]

I’m from Canada and we are eliminating plastic bags.. When I come to the Villages I’m so disappointed that stores especially Walmart continue to use plastic bags…Why is it that people can spend $400.00 at Costco who don’t offer bags and don’t have an issue…then go to Walmart and use 10 bags for a $50.00 order…Hello people don’t you see what these bags are doing to the environment…

Maybe one of you advocating for ‘paper’ only option...can answer the question(s) that have been posed several times here. What about all the plastic based products that are purchased and transported in said bag(s)? Seems a little hypocritical, no? If you’re using it as a first step in your advocacy, how do you expect compliance and buy in if these (recycled) paper options can’t hold anything with any integrity. If you’re being honest, then you know you’ve seen many shoppers frustrated when their orders collapse to the pavement below due to these inferior products. I also agree with the post about bringing in reusable bags, it’s disgusting. I’ve been behind a shopper that yanked out a half a dozen of those loaded with her fur babies hair. That sounds like someone with other people’s best interest at heart. As I stated earlier, all businesses should make some component of a recycled plastic bag available, durable, and at no cost to the end user. Those that want no part of that can use the litany of cardboard boxes that these grocers accumulate daily that can be used to appease those so inclined.

[ThirdOfFive]

A good summary of our burning questions! But still we should up-cycle household stuff to Habitat, thrift stores, etc...and cut apart plastic rings to save wildlife
Absolutely.

Coincidentally, after the cat walked on my face at 3:00 AM this morning, I was flipping through the offerings on YouTube that covered this topic, as well as recycling in general. Very informative. Good coverage of how plastics can be recycled and the efforts being made by various countries, as well as many other substances being recycled and/or repurposed. One rather fascinating topic was "green" burials. Many advertised as such aren't, or aren't to the extent that they're being touted as, but this particular segment concerned the use of mushrooms for coffins! Apparently they introduce a certain breed of mushroom to a mold, wait for the time needed, and the mushroom grows to fill the mold. Once done and processed the end result is something that looks like Styrofoam and apparently can be handled the same way, and burying good old Uncle Walter in one guarantees that the whole thing degrades quickly, returning Uncle Walter to the environment in about a year, vs. up to ten years (according to the segment) if a wooden casket with metal accouterments and various other plastics used in the process, was used.

The show did contain a warning however, for people to be watchful and not be taken in by emotional appeals. Ikea, for example, as made a very public effort to go the green route, recycling many not-too-damaged pieces of Ikea furniture to a resellable state, which they then resell. They tout their efforts as saving the environment but apparently this arrangement is very financially advantageous to them as well, as (as I recall) they charge the customer $X to drop the item off, then resell it for less than new but still at a pretty hefty price. The point was that the environment is not being helped as much as IKEA might want people to think: the stuff that would take too much time or money to fix apparently just ends up in landfills. Another such emotionally-laden topic was "reef burials", where Uncle Walter is apparently cremated, with his (and more than just a few others) remains then mixed into concrete, formed into something that looks like a huge upside-down flowerpot, and dumped in the ocean. The upside-down pot has openings for fish to swim in and out of, and is apparently an ideal structure for coral formation. You can also write Walter's name on it, add trinkets, etc. if you wish. Well and good--but your effort at saving the environment, providing structure for coral and making the fish happy costs, according to the segment, about as much as a normal in-ground funeral and burial, and as THAT number today can go as high as $12,000.00 (I've seen higher) it is obvious that somebody (maybe several somebodies) are profiting from your emotion.

[mrf0151]

Walk around the isles at the grocery store and see how many of the products sold are in plastic in some way.
So, we are worried about the bags that most of us take back to the store and put in the recycle bin?

[ThirdOfFive]

Hmmm. Not so sure abt powering 1 million homes. That’s seems impossible Not the number that I recall but I will look it up
That may be a blanket number. Apparently Covanta runs several such plants.

[GizmoWhiskers]

I am amazed that Florida still allows the use of plastic bags in grocery stores. So many other states have banned it. We now have microplastics (very small plastic particles) in our agriculture soil, ocean and just about anywhere you can think of. There are so many studies that verify the dangers of plastics and I cringe every time I go to the grocery store and see 10-20-30 plastic bags per cart. Just one Publics said they can go through thousands of plastic bags in a day. Here is one link that talks about how serious this problem has gotten. It's our new DDT.How microplastics are infiltrating the food you eat (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230103-how-plastic-is-getting-into-our-food) . There are now studies beiing done of earthworms ingesting micro-plastics. ScienceDirect (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969721061003)
One must ask... how many plastic container or packaged items are in just ONE Villages grocery store? How much plastic is picked up twice a week in the Villages and incerated locally?

Three or four plastic bags as you leave to CARRY your stuff is a problem? Nope.

Mine get recycled within the home. Many uses. Sorry for not feeling sorry.

The powers that be virtue signaling over worms digesting plastics, nanoparticulates are ALL AROUND us. Do the ptb feel bad for us?

Enter in rice paper, algae, kudsu weed based containers... then maybe carrying my groceries to the car in plastic will convict me. Guilt sorry, that's a big, fat nope.

"What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" KEEP IT THAT WAY. FL practices free choice. We LIKE our plastic straws and grocery bags. Those not in favor by all means fly far far away from The Villages and be one's own special kind of free.

[NotGolfer]

I'd say that plastic bags are the least of our worries. IF they are---then take your own bags. BUT that said---one probably could find particles of anything if they so wanted to be a "scientist". We're the generation that grew up with paint they no longer allow (lead based) and cans that probably weren't "healthy" neither. One could get into the "chem-trails" (they are a thing btw) that are emitting who-knows-what into our atmosphere.

[MrFlorida]

The other day it was self checkouts, now it's plastic bags... some people need a hobby.

[GizmoWhiskers]

I'd say that plastic bags are the least of our worries. IF they are---then take your own bags. BUT that said---one probably could find particles of anything if they so wanted to be a "scientist". We're the generation that grew up with paint they no longer allow (lead based) and cans that probably weren't "healthy" neither. One could get into the "chem-trails" (they are a thing btw) that are emitting who-knows-what into our atmosphere.
Yes, yes, and more yes-es!!! Right. Inhale exhale good stuff.

Trying hard not to go there but fun stuff. TN PASSED this bill. It is a done deal! FL should be following BUT DeSantis and Rick Scott are unresponsive as far as protecting Villagers.

TN Ban SB 2691/HB 2063 (copy and paste)

There is an article on it but for funny, it won't link right.

[Markus]

We use the reusable bags and have been for well over 10 years. When we do use plastic we keep them. Some of them are reused for other purposes or we take them to the drop off in front of Publix to be recycled.

[Rodneysblue]

I am amazed that Florida still allows the use of plastic bags in grocery stores. So many other states have banned it. We now have microplastics (very small plastic particles) in our agriculture soil, ocean and just about anywhere you can think of. There are so many studies that verify the dangers of plastics and I cringe every time I go to the grocery store and see 10-20-30 plastic bags per cart. Just one Publics said they can go through thousands of plastic bags in a day. Here is one link that talks about how serious this problem has gotten. It's our new DDT.How microplastics are infiltrating the food you eat (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230103-how-plastic-is-getting-into-our-food) . There are now studies beiing done of earthworms ingesting micro-plastics. ScienceDirect (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969721061003)

No one is forcing you to use plastic bags. We bring our own reusable bags shopping.

[Ponygirl]

An earlier poster said that over a million houses are powered by the waste to energy plant which I knew was incorrect

From Covanta website We use waste to produce 15 megawatts of electricity 24/7 - enough to power 8,000 homes for a year.

Another concern abt the Covanta facility is the level of toxins released in the air although Covanta says the number is negligible

[Velvet]

No one is forcing you to use plastic bags. We bring our own reusable bags shopping.

Yes, it’s sort of like religion. Each to their own.

[MrFlorida]

Since we can't use garbage cans here in The Villages, how do you propose we put our garbage out for pickup ?

[jimjamuser]

I am amazed that Florida still allows the use of plastic bags in grocery stores. So many other states have banned it. We now have microplastics (very small plastic particles) in our agriculture soil, ocean and just about anywhere you can think of. There are so many studies that verify the dangers of plastics and I cringe every time I go to the grocery store and see 10-20-30 plastic bags per cart. Just one Publics said they can go through thousands of plastic bags in a day. Here is one link that talks about how serious this problem has gotten. It's our new DDT.How microplastics are infiltrating the food you eat (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230103-how-plastic-is-getting-into-our-food) . There are now studies beiing done of earthworms ingesting micro-plastics. ScienceDirect (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969721061003)
The problem my wife says is that, "the NORTHERNERS do NOT bring their reusable bags with them."

[shaw8700@outlook.com]

One of the main reasons I want to move there is precisely the Covanta plant. No longer have to separate recycling (actually I’ve never done that in the first place - most people don’t understand what makes something recyclable). And now that Covanta does it this way, everything is recyclable! You should be glad that the grocery stores don’t dispense with plastic bags. I come from California (work) where plastic bags have been banned, but they didn’t ban all plastics, which doesn’t make sense, just plastic bags. So the bags you put your produce in, and all the plastics that are used like the plastic rings that bottled (plastic) sodas come in are okay. What??? And nobody at the stores can tell you what is done with the money they collect from bag sales. You think that the state of California uses that money to pick up the bags that are discarded and left blowing in the wind, which is exactly what they were trying to avoid.

This reminds me of what my husband always says about heaven - it’s a fallacy to think you could get a bunch of people living together without someone complaining about something.

[asianthree]

The problem my wife says is that, "the NORTHERNERS do NOT bring their reusable bags with them."

Stereotype random thoughts, upbringing, 10 year study on the subject asking each individual entering with or without bags where were you born and raised?

Or no clue but it’s always good to place blame with little knowledge of facts.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The problem my wife says is that, "the NORTHERNERS do NOT bring their reusable bags with them."

I would be embarrassed to admit that about my spouse, if that was what my spouse said.

Most "northerners" came from states that already do recycling, already value the idea of re-using plastics rather than disposing of them, and already embrace the idea of cloth bags for dry shelf-stable goods, and thermal bags for refrigerated/frozen/heated goods.

Yes, we waste stuff. We throw things away, we don't grow all our own food and milk our own cows or have chickens who lay our eggs for us here in The Villages. But some of us came from those environments. The "north" is filled with large farms, small farms, off-grid self-sustaining homesteads, people who have compost heaps in their back yards, and so on.

Might want to teach your wife that. Lumping everyone who grew up in the north with blanket statements is a sign of ignorance. If I was your wife and read what you said about me I'd probably have you sleeping in the laundry shed for the next month.

[GWilliams]

Where were these studies when the environmentalists forced us to use paper over plastic? Re-useable bags spread germs.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Where were these studies when the environmentalists forced us to use paper over plastic? Re-useable bags spread germs.

Not if you clean them. Cloth bags can be put in the washing machine and the dryer. Most people I know use tote bags when they go to the pool - how often do you think they wash those tote bags?

[Indydealmaker]

It’s not just plastic bags it’s all plastics. We have abandoned recycling in The Villages opting to burn plastics trash to energy.

We did not abandon recycling. Recycling abandoned us. A large part of the recycling bins end up in landfills.

[jimjamuser]

I needed this one. Thank you for posting this topic. The problem is most stores that have adopted paper over plastic, are not giving you the same integrity of paper like when you grew up. Its recycled and has no durability. There are composite 'plastic' bags available also of recycled material that can handle groceries. How many people I see playing 52 pickup in the parking lots of food chains. Ridiculous. And they charge you for the privilege! To me the cost of any bag should be the cost of doing business...borne by the business. Since I feel I'm a responsible person, I look for stores that offer the recycled plastic option....and dont charge. Strictly on principle. And no, I'm all set with bringing my own bags in...
I bring my own cloth bags. Maybe the sores in Florida should REWARD their customers that bring in their own cloth bags. Maybe something small as a reward like a 3% discount on purchases.

[jimjamuser]

If I don't get my daily plastic fix I go into withdrawal. Just another thing to complain about.
It's NOT complaining when people are posting their solutions to a REAL WORLD problem. Years ago no one wore seat belts. Now no one would think NOT to use them. In the same way people could be made to move away from HARMFUL plastics.

[jimjamuser]

We’ve gotten better at detecting them. Not sure I’d call it hysteria, just clarification on what impact plastic has on us, our environment and future generations.

The oil and gas industry pulled the wool over our eyes by making us believe that plastic was so much better than paper. Here we are 20 years later with all types of particulates floating in our oceans and blood streams. It’s bad for the environment, no matter how you look at it.

Thanks to the OP for posting it. I’ve brought my own bags to the grocery stores for years instead of using plastic ones provided. Europeans have been doing it for decades.

I hope that more people will understand how harmful plastic is to the environment. Future generations will look back upon us and wonder how we could be so stupid.

I hope your not still using Teflon cookware….thats more crap that’s poisoned us….
So, looks like the Oil and Gas industry has messed up America in more ways than one. As to Teflon coated pans - apparently cast iron cookware is superior in every way. Funny how sometimes the best solution is to look backwards toward the OLDER time tested methods.
.......I wonder if the US Amish population have less micro particles floating around in their blood streams. I imagine that they avoid PLASTICS as much as possible.

[jimjamuser]

If they are a volunteer, why would they expect a tip? And why do you feel obligated to offer one? Very generous of you, but seems contrary to the spirit of volunteer work.
I hate the whole concept of tips. Very old-fashion! A restaurant or other business should pay their people and have "NO TIPPING" signs on their doors and everywhere, until that STUPID system is abolished!

[jimjamuser]

Question

Truthfully, I am not concerned about the environment. I use the free plastic bags at Publix and throw them away. But, I am not a snowbird who heats, cools, and maintains two houses year round. I don't have anything against snowbirds, but isn't that worse for the environment than using plastic grocery bags?
A perfect example of the word, "rationalization"! I will continue doing something wrong for the environment (using plastic bags) BECAUSE........and then I will express some example of something that I find WORSE (like commuting between 2 homes).
........It is ALMOST like saying, "maybe I did rob someone of some money, but at least, I did NOT kill them".

[ThirdOfFive]

I bring my own cloth bags. Maybe the sores in Florida should REWARD their customers that bring in their own cloth bags. Maybe something small as a reward like a 3% discount on purchases.
Unfortunately 3% is not a "small" reward. For many of the larger stores 3% is the profit margin.

I do like the "reward" idea though...maybe open the store 1/2 hour early for all those with cloth bags? Pick out one item on a selected rack for every (say) $40 that you spend shopping that trip? Something along those lines.

[Marine1974]

I am amazed that Florida still allows the use of plastic bags in grocery stores. So many other states have banned it. We now have microplastics (very small plastic particles) in our agriculture soil, ocean and just about anywhere you can think of. There are so many studies that verify the dangers of plastics and I cringe every time I go to the grocery store and see 10-20-30 plastic bags per cart. Just one Publics said they can go through thousands of plastic bags in a day. Here is one link that talks about how serious this problem has gotten. It's our new DDT.How microplastics are infiltrating the food you eat (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230103-how-plastic-is-getting-into-our-food) . There are now studies beiing done of earthworms ingesting micro-plastics. ScienceDirect (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969721061003)
Do you not use plastic bags in your trash receptacle in your house ?
What is your trash and recycling
bins made of ?
Do you not drive a car with plastic
components in it ?
Do you use bath towels with a blend of cotton and plastic ?
How about your washer and dryer , any plastic ?
How bout paper towels ?
Golf cart ?
Shoes ?
Clothing ?
You might rethink what you’re buying .if your really concerned about plastics in
Our environment. .
Not meant to be disrespectful, most people don’t realize what
items in our houses and cars are made out of plastic , besides grocery bags .

[jimjamuser]

But how can we pick up dog and cat poop without plastic bags!!
You buy an old ladies purse and also carry around a garden tool. Then put the droppings in the garbage if you want. Personally, if i had a dog, I would put the dropping around flowers or some other plant around my house as fertilizer.

[jimjamuser]

Good point.

Also without plastic bags, how would we carry all the food that is packaged in plastic?
The plastic bag weighs about 6 grams, but can hold 1000x its own weight. You can eliminate a few grams of plastic by bringing a reusable bag, but I don't think anyone wants to be buying their groceries in a reused (not recycled, reused) package
The problem with plastic bags is not just "a few grams of plastic". The problem is that the lightweight plastic bags get blown around into our local lakes and even the Gulf of Mexico - where they cause problems (even death) for birds, fish, and mammals.
.........Then they can decompose and create these micro-particles that NEVER decompose and are ending up messing up earthworms, which are very IMPORTANT to agriculture. Then they end up in carrots and other root crops and then into human beings - where they are producing un-researched problems.

[jimjamuser]

You should be using the bags that the Daily Sun comes in every day for the dogs. That's good for at least 1 poop every day!

I do re-use those plastic grocery bags to clean the little box for my cat. And I use an unscented clay-based litter, which makes the litter itself biodegradable and non-toxic to the environment (the cat's waste is - toxic. But the litter is not).

If I didn't have a cat, I'd always use re-usable bags I bring from home (I have several and do use the thermal one often).

Also, Publix has bins where you can toss your unwanted plastic bags, and they recycle them. Their green plastic hand-baskets are made out of recycled plastic too.
Maybe the Daily Sun paper ITSELF would be good to wrap up the dog discharge. There are a lot of pages of useless advertising.

[Topspinmo]

I never requested paper bags for groceries. The folds in the bags are where insects lay their eggs. Or so I have thought for many years of hearing that. I never want any paper bags in our home.

Nearly all roaches brought into house are from shopping at grocery stores and it not bags that put grocery’s in how they’re getting in.

[jimjamuser]

OP you are talking about the “dark ages”. I prefer plastic bags, especially if they are burnt in the garbage and reduce our energy bill. True recycling. Not only are plastic bags hygienic and convenient but I use them for all kinds of things at home that I can’t use paper bags for. I think we’ve got it right, here. The Villages is again ahead of everybody.
But, that does NOT solve the problem that the lightweight plastic bags BLOW around and adversely affect the environment.

[jimjamuser]

We have towns in MA that don’t allow plastic bags. So they put my laundry detergent (plastic jug), produce (plastic bags), vegetable oil (plastic container) and everything else packaged in plastic into a weak paper bag that’s hard to carry and tears open.

Not to mention, our eyeglasses are plastic, our shoes, our clothes, desks, cars have tons of plastic, computers are plastic, k-cups are plastic, aluminum cans are lined with plastic, windows, siding, picture frames, plugs. It's in everything.

I think plastic is a big problem. I just don’t see supermarket bags doing much at all.
Plastic eyeglasses do NOT blow around like lightweight plastic grocery bags.

[Shipping up to Boston]

The problem my wife says is that, "the NORTHERNERS do NOT bring their reusable bags with them."

Any guesses on how many times the ‘N’ word (Northerners) is used in this household! Smh

[jimjamuser]

I never requested paper bags for groceries. The folds in the bags are where insects lay their eggs. Or so I have thought for many years of hearing that. I never want any paper bags in our home.
I someone does NOT like paper bags, they should take cloth bags to the store.

[jimjamuser]

Half the produce is in plastic.
Plastic containers like say for apple sauce do NOT BLOW AROUND and end up in oceans and local lakes as much as lightweight plastic bags.

[jimjamuser]

. I agree that there are plenty of distractions from so much corruption, gas-lighting, etc, but with a background in science, I know this is not the "hysteria du jour". I can't do anything about much of the craziness going on right now in the world but I can do my part by bringing bags when I go shopping at the grocery stores as well as other stores. I asked my local Publix and they use thousands of bags a day. Multiply that by the hundreds of Publix, Walmarts, Winn Dixie, etc.,etc in Florida and the number is astronomical. Many of this plastic ends up in landfills and the ocean.
Yes, that IS what I agree with!!!!!!!!!!

[retiredguy123]

A perfect example of the word, "rationalization"! I will continue doing something wrong for the environment (using plastic bags) BECAUSE........and then I will express some example of something that I find WORSE (like commuting between 2 homes).
........It is ALMOST like saying, "maybe I did rob someone of some money, but at least, I did NOT kill them".
I was addressing the thread topic, which was that the OP wants the State of Florida to pass a law banning plastic grocery bags to improve the environment. That would eliminate a personal choice to use or to not use the bags. I was just pointing out that other choices people make are obviously worse for the environment than using plastic bags. Also, there are some studies that show that banning plastic bags does not improve the environment. I think people should be allowed to make their own decisions. So, I am not in favor of a new state law.

[Karmanng]

I am amazed that Florida still allows the use of plastic bags in grocery stores. So many other states have banned it. We now have microplastics (very small plastic particles) in our agriculture soil, ocean and just about anywhere you can think of. There are so many studies that verify the dangers of plastics and I cringe every time I go to the grocery store and see 10-20-30 plastic bags per cart. Just one Publics said they can go through thousands of plastic bags in a day. Here is one link that talks about how serious this problem has gotten. It's our new DDT.How microplastics are infiltrating the food you eat (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230103-how-plastic-is-getting-into-our-food) . There are now studies beiing done of earthworms ingesting micro-plastics. ScienceDirect (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969721061003)

This should be the least of your problems in TV !!!! Go enjoy the day ! We still have those here in AZ ............recylcle them if your that worried geeezzzz

[Shipping up to Boston]

This should be the least of your problems in TV !!!! Go enjoy the day ! We still have those here in AZ ............recylcle them if your that worried geeezzzz

I always love when people come on this forum and try to propose ‘traffic calming measures’ to get users to pivot from topics! Since I’ve only been on this for a short time, I honestly think, at least the ones that author threads about subjects like this....are only doing so to gauge what village to move to and which ones to avoid. Kinda like vetting your potential neighbors. Brilliant

[jimjamuser]

Why is the plastic bag so offensive to you when about 95% of everything you put in that bag is packaged in PLASTIC.
Because it is light enough to BLOW around and get into local lakes and mess up the birds, fish, eagles, and mammals.

[jimjamuser]

Florida also has love bugs and no-see-ems which other states have banned!
We need chameleons that are bred to eat plastic bags and styrafoam. Problem solved.

[jimjamuser]

Absolutely.

Coincidentally, after the cat walked on my face at 3:00 AM this morning, I was flipping through the offerings on YouTube that covered this topic, as well as recycling in general. Very informative. Good coverage of how plastics can be recycled and the efforts being made by various countries, as well as many other substances being recycled and/or repurposed. One rather fascinating topic was "green" burials. Many advertised as such aren't, or aren't to the extent that they're being touted as, but this particular segment concerned the use of mushrooms for coffins! Apparently they introduce a certain breed of mushroom to a mold, wait for the time needed, and the mushroom grows to fill the mold. Once done and processed the end result is something that looks like Styrofoam and apparently can be handled the same way, and burying good old Uncle Walter in one guarantees that the whole thing degrades quickly, returning Uncle Walter to the environment in about a year, vs. up to ten years (according to the segment) if a wooden casket with metal accouterments and various other plastics used in the process, was used.

The show did contain a warning however, for people to be watchful and not be taken in by emotional appeals. Ikea, for example, as made a very public effort to go the green route, recycling many not-too-damaged pieces of Ikea furniture to a resellable state, which they then resell. They tout their efforts as saving the environment but apparently this arrangement is very financially advantageous to them as well, as (as I recall) they charge the customer $X to drop the item off, then resell it for less than new but still at a pretty hefty price. The point was that the environment is not being helped as much as IKEA might want people to think: the stuff that would take too much time or money to fix apparently just ends up in landfills. Another such emotionally-laden topic was "reef burials", where Uncle Walter is apparently cremated, with his (and more than just a few others) remains then mixed into concrete, formed into something that looks like a huge upside-down flowerpot, and dumped in the ocean. The upside-down pot has openings for fish to swim in and out of, and is apparently an ideal structure for coral formation. You can also write Walter's name on it, add trinkets, etc. if you wish. Well and good--but your effort at saving the environment, providing structure for coral and making the fish happy costs, according to the segment, about as much as a normal in-ground funeral and burial, and as THAT number today can go as high as $12,000.00 (I've seen higher) it is obvious that somebody (maybe several somebodies) are profiting from your emotion.
If I had a spare $12,000 laying around, I might think seriously about becoming an upside-down flower pot helping to save coral reefs and allowing fish to swim by. Might be a pleasant view. Beats ending up as a bunch of ashes eventually tossed away.

[jimjamuser]

I would be embarrassed to admit that about my spouse, if that was what my spouse said.

Most "northerners" came from states that already do recycling, already value the idea of re-using plastics rather than disposing of them, and already embrace the idea of cloth bags for dry shelf-stable goods, and thermal bags for refrigerated/frozen/heated goods.

Yes, we waste stuff. We throw things away, we don't grow all our own food and milk our own cows or have chickens who lay our eggs for us here in The Villages. But some of us came from those environments. The "north" is filled with large farms, small farms, off-grid self-sustaining homesteads, people who have compost heaps in their back yards, and so on.

Might want to teach your wife that. Lumping everyone who grew up in the north with blanket statements is a sign of ignorance. If I was your wife and read what you said about me I'd probably have you sleeping in the laundry shed for the next month.
I always sleep in the laundry shed. I thought everyone did that. But, thanks for the enlightening comments !!!!!

[Shipping up to Boston]

If I had a spare $12,000 laying around, I might think seriously about becoming an upside-down flower pot helping to save coral reefs and allowing fish to swim by. Might be a pleasant view. Beats ending up as a bunch of ashes eventually tossed away.

Donations are pouring in right now to accommodate your wish!

(Just messing with ya....neighbor!) ;)

[fdpaq0580]

Plastic eyeglasses do NOT blow around like lightweight plastic grocery bags.

Just an example of plastic "hiding in plain sight", so to speak. Most folks have no real idea of just how pervasive plastics are in the big scheme of things.

[jimjamuser]

I would be embarrassed to admit that about my spouse, if that was what my spouse said.

Most "northerners" came from states that already do recycling, already value the idea of re-using plastics rather than disposing of them, and already embrace the idea of cloth bags for dry shelf-stable goods, and thermal bags for refrigerated/frozen/heated goods.

Yes, we waste stuff. We throw things away, we don't grow all our own food and milk our own cows or have chickens who lay our eggs for us here in The Villages. But some of us came from those environments. The "north" is filled with large farms, small farms, off-grid self-sustaining homesteads, people who have compost heaps in their back yards, and so on.

Might want to teach your wife that. Lumping everyone who grew up in the north with blanket statements is a sign of ignorance. If I was your wife and read what you said about me I'd probably have you sleeping in the laundry shed for the next month.
Actually, she suggested that I write that when I told her what one subject of today's TOTV was. Basically she finds that the northern visitors in Publix (for example) are more pushy and full of themselves than your full time Villager. Of course. there are exceptions and some part-time visitors are perfect human beings and they DO add to the economics of this area. It is NOT their fault that the traffic on 441 is sometimes backed up for 2 intervals of red lights. Florida roads have NEVER kept up with the population growth and it is MORE EVIDENT in the WINTER.
...........Part time TV Land residents also seem to often be in a big hurry and their DRIVING HABITS show that. They tend to see a stop sign as just an invitation to slow down.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Just an example of plastic "hiding in plain sight", so to speak. Most folks have no real idea of just how pervasive plastics are in the big scheme of things.

Actually a great point. There is a video gone viral of a US Senate hearing addressing this very issue of plastic and glasses. I won’t attach it nor expand any further for fear of violating community guidelines!

[fdpaq0580]

Plastic containers like say for apple sauce do NOT BLOW AROUND and end up in oceans and local lakes as much as lightweight plastic bags.

Wind can be very strong sometimes. Surprising what it can move.

[jimjamuser]

Where were these studies when the environmentalists forced us to use paper over plastic? Re-useable bags spread germs.
Germs are everywhere whether plastic bags, paper bags, or cloth bags. If i were worried about germs, I would NOT want to be seated in an indoor building with a lot of people for long periods of time. Think movie theater or church.

[4$ALE]

Donations are pouring in right now to accommodate your wish!

(Just messing with ya....neighbor!) ;)

Start a GO FUND ME page...... I'm in! :pray:

[jimjamuser]

Unfortunately 3% is not a "small" reward. For many of the larger stores 3% is the profit margin.

I do like the "reward" idea though...maybe open the store 1/2 hour early for all those with cloth bags? Pick out one item on a selected rack for every (say) $40 that you spend shopping that trip? Something along those lines.
Keep the profit margin by taking up some % of the prices by 3% and keeping the reward policy. Also I agree that cloth shopping bags can be easily washed regularly.

[fdpaq0580]

Yes, that IS what I agree with!!!!!!!!!!

Small things add up to big things, good or bad. Make sure that your small changes will add up to positive effect.

[fdpaq0580]

Any guesses on how many times the ‘N’ word (Northerners) is used in this household! Smh

It's always the other "guys" fault.

[jimjamuser]

Donations are pouring in right now to accommodate your wish!

(Just messing with ya....neighbor!) ;)
Thank you!!!!!! I got a GREAT laugh.

[cjrjck]

Question

Truthfully, I am not concerned about the environment. I use the free plastic bags at Publix and throw them away. But, I am not a snowbird who heats, cools, and maintains two houses year round. I don't have anything against snowbirds, but isn't that worse for the environment than using plastic grocery bags?

And you clearly do not worship at the alter of "Science" tology like many do today.

[Velvet]

I was addressing the thread topic, which was that the OP wants the State of Florida to pass a law banning plastic grocery bags to improve the environment. That would eliminate a personal choice to use or to not use the bags. I was just pointing out that other choices people make are obviously worse for the environment than using plastic bags. Also, there are some studies that show that banning plastic bags does not improve the environment. I think people should be allowed to make their own decisions. So, I am not in favor of a new state law.

Yes this is true, in my opinion, besides what about the process that is used to produce paper? And it is also true that some people will not dispose of plastic bags properly, behavior can be callous and selfish. But banning grocery bags is like solving all problems with a hammer, cause it’s the only tool you’ve got.

[fdpaq0580]

I was addressing the thread topic, which was that the OP wants the State of Florida to pass a law banning plastic grocery bags to improve the environment. That would eliminate a personal choice to use or to not use the bags. I was just pointing out that other choices people make are obviously worse for the environment than using plastic bags. Also, there are some studies that show that banning plastic bags does not improve the environment. I think people should be allowed to make their own decisions. So, I am not in favor of a new state law.

People don't always make good choices. When your choice only impacts you, fine. When your choice negatively impacts your neighbor, community, state, country, planetary environment, you don't get to choose. And you should not be surprised.

[HORNET]

I am amazed that Florida still allows the use of plastic bags in grocery stores. So many other states have banned it. We now have microplastics (very small plastic particles) in our agriculture soil, ocean and just about anywhere you can think of. There are so many studies that verify the dangers of plastics and I cringe every time I go to the grocery store and see 10-20-30 plastic bags per cart. Just one Publics said they can go through thousands of plastic bags in a day. Here is one link that talks about how serious this problem has gotten. It's our new DDT.How microplastics are infiltrating the food you eat (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230103-how-plastic-is-getting-into-our-food) . There are now studies beiing done of earthworms ingesting micro-plastics. ScienceDirect (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969721061003) why worry about the bags, what about the water bottles, deli-food in plastic, bread in plastic, frozen foods in plastic, fruits and vegetables in plastic, ETC! So what’s your point? Maybe if they would come out with Organic Plastic Bags!

[Steban]

I am amazed that Florida still allows the use of plastic bags in grocery stores.

Take a look at the amount of packaging in your grocery cart before you bag your groceries. Rolls of paper towels are individually wrapped, then the individual rolls are wrapped in a group.

Most if your trash that you send to the curb is packaging. The packaging far outweighs the plastic bags.

[golfing eagles]

I’m from Canada and we are eliminating plastic bags.. When I come to the Villages I’m so disappointed that stores especially Walmart continue to use plastic bags…Why is it that people can spend $400.00 at Costco who don’t offer bags and don’t have an issue…then go to Walmart and use 10 bags for a $50.00 order…Hello people don’t you see what these bags are doing to the environment…

Hello! It's not what the bags are doing, it's what the people who inappropriately discard them are doing

[fdpaq0580]

If I had a spare $12,000 laying around, I might think seriously about becoming an upside-down flower pot helping to save coral reefs and allowing fish to swim by. Might be a pleasant view. Beats ending up as a bunch of ashes eventually tossed away.

$12,000,oo? Simple cremation for both parents. A vacation trip with my niece to Hawaii. And buried beneath a palm tree on Waikiki while playing in the sand.
No one in your family carrying your ashes to Hawaii? Well, where would you like to go. Or, like the song says, "dust in the wind".

[golfing eagles]

The problem with plastic bags is not just "a few grams of plastic". The problem is that the lightweight plastic bags get blown around into our local lakes and even the Gulf of Mexico - where they cause problems (even death) for birds, fish, and mammals.
.........Then they can decompose and create these micro-particles that NEVER decompose and are ending up messing up earthworms, which are very IMPORTANT to agriculture. Then they end up in carrots and other root crops and then into human beings - where they are producing un-researched problems.

Again, it's NOT THE BAG, it's how people dispose of them. I've never seen a plastic grocery bag free itself from a sealed trash bag and blow itself into the ocean, have you??? And these plasma burn plants don't leave microparticles for earthworms.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Again, it's NOT THE BAG, it's how people dispose of them. I've never seen a plastic grocery bag free itself from a sealed trash bag and blow itself into the ocean, have you??? And these plasma burn plants don't leave microparticles for earthworms.

Office hours. The GE Doctor is in! ;)

[fdpaq0580]

why worry about the bags, what about the water bottles, deli-food in plastic, bread in plastic, frozen foods in plastic, fruits and vegetables in plastic, ETC! So what’s your point? Maybe if they would come out with Organic Plastic Bags!

Organic plastic bags? Great idea! Biodegradable bags. Lead on, good buddy! We're all behind you on this.
HORNET , HORNET, HORNET, GOOOO, HORNET,! YEA!!!
🙌🫶🙌🙌🙌🤟🙌🙌👐👐👋👌� ��🙌🫶🙌🙌

[fdpaq0580]

Office hours. The GE Doctor is in! ;)

Seen plastic bags fall(?) From boats/ships and, with the help of wave action, various types of sealife, the bags open in short order and contents are dispersed. Happens often, sad to say. The problem is international.

Dear Shipping,
My response was actually to the good Dr. My error.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Seen plastic bags fall(?) From boats/ships and, with the help of wave action, various types of sealife, the bags open in short order and contents are dispersed. Happens often, sad to say. The problem is international.

Dear Shipping,
My response was actually to the good Dr. My error.

All good my friend. We all get ahead of ourselves on here at times!

[golfing eagles]

Seen plastic bags fall(?) From boats/ships and, with the help of wave action, various types of sealife, the bags open in short order and contents are dispersed. Happens often, sad to say. The problem is international.

Dear Shipping,
My response was actually to the good Dr. My error.

Ever see a plastic bag properly secured on a boat, say in a cabinet, jump out all by itself????

[LeRoySmith]

Hello! It's not what the bags are doing, it's what the people who inappropriately discard them are doing

sort of like banning guns because they kill people

[Marmaduke]

We’ve gotten better at detecting them. Not sure I’d call it hysteria, just clarification on what impact plastic has on us, our environment and future generations.

The oil and gas industry pulled the wool over our eyes by making us believe that plastic was so much better than paper. Here we are 20 years later with all types of particulates floating in our oceans and blood streams. It’s bad for the environment, no matter how you look at it.

Thanks to the OP for posting it. I’ve brought my own bags to the grocery stores for years instead of using plastic ones provided. Europeans have been doing it for decades.

I hope that more people will understand how harmful plastic is to the environment. Future generations will look back upon us and wonder how we could be so stupid.

I hope your not still using Teflon cookware….thats more crap that’s poisoned us….
... and watch out for deodorant with aluminum too. I have s very long list of what not to do, eat or say anymore.
In the last century, people lived to the average age of 50.
We've come long way in longetivity.
Wish we weren't all so smart.

[LeRoySmith]

Plastic Island in the Pacific Ocean, the Seventh Continent - Iberdrola (https://www.iberdrola.com/sustainability/plastic-island-in-pacific-eighth-continent#:~:text=Lying%20between%20California%20a nd%20Hawaii,of%20marine%20animals%20each%20year).

I haven't seen it for myself but this doesn't sound great.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Ever see a plastic bag properly secured on a boat, say in a cabinet, jump out all by itself????

Certain macro doses of certain substances would make that a possibility for some....no Dr.?! ;)

[golfing eagles]

sort of like banning guns because they kill people

Exactly like that!. I can pose the same question about guns that the anti plastic bag posters refuse to answer.

Has anyone ever seen a gun unlock itself from a gun safe, load itself with ammunition from a locked draw, float out to a phone, call an Uber, direct the driver to a school, church or movie theater, float out to the building then hover in midair and shoot a bunch of people???? ANYONE????EVER????

Because I've never seen a properly discarded or stored plastic grocery bag free itself and throw itself into the ocean. NEVER.

[ThirdOfFive]

Again, it's NOT THE BAG, it's how people dispose of them. I've never seen a plastic grocery bag free itself from a sealed trash bag and blow itself into the ocean, have you??? And these plasma burn plants don't leave microparticles for earthworms.
There's this chicken-wire or some such fence on the island of Bonaire, maybe 6' - 8' high, where locals hang things that wash in from the sea. Pretty eye-opening: I saw a few bags but lots of other stuff as well. Clothing. Children's toys. lots of plastic bottles and containers. Those plastic holders that six-packs of beer come in. Styrofoam. Those foam flotation "noodles". A hairpiece ("wig"?) A dilapidated fishing net. Couple of beach balls. Partially-filled plastic water bottles. A couple of things I can't mention here. What appeared to be a beach lounge chair. Lots of other stuff. It was eye-opening to say the least. According to a local I talked to the display changes regularly as new items wash up and old ones are disposed of.

Bags are negligible compared to the huge amounts of detritus tossed into the ocean down there.

[golfing eagles]

Certain macro doses of certain substances would make that a possibility for some....no Dr.?! ;)

Even small doses of a powerful hallucinogen, or more likely an underlying psychosis.:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[asianthree]

I bring my own cloth bags. Maybe the sores in Florida should REWARD their customers that bring in their own cloth bags. Maybe something small as a reward like a 3% discount on purchases.

Trader Joe’s has a reward program for customers own bags. Problem is most customers are such a high percentage of bags, that chances of winning are super small.

Best cooler bag for us TJs same width top to bottom

[fdpaq0580]

Ever see a plastic bag properly secured on a boat, say in a cabinet, jump out all by itself????

Having spent half my life aboard vessels of every size. Yes! When seas are rough, things secured in a normal way, continuous tossing and turning can cause havoc very quickly. Even when extra precautions are taken, at sea, things can/do happen.
Have you seen shipping containers properly secured for sea tossed overboard? Or cars, trucks, trailers, tied down for sea break loose in a car carrier or ferry boat? Things at sea can be very unpredictable. Basically, s--t happens.

[blueash]

Archaeologists are now finding microplastics in ancient remains | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/25/uk/microplastics-archeological-remains-study-scli-intl-scn-gbr?cid=ios_app)

Not sure of the point you were trying to make... but that article is about how modern use of plastics has now been shown to be contaminating ancient remains, with microplastics seeping down into buried centuries old soil layers

[blueash]

Nearly all roaches brought into house are from shopping at grocery stores and it not bags that put grocery’s in how they’re getting in.

I am sure, having read hundreds of your well researched and thoughtful posts here, that you have some sort of evidence for THAT statement. I will be back to read the links to the studies.

Does your spellchecker work? I don't normally point out spelling errors, perhaps English is not your first language or you have a learning disability.... but when you make a scientific statement, I do use clues to suggest the amount of education that underlies that statement.

[fdpaq0580]

Exactly like that!. I can pose the same question about guns that the anti plastic bag posters refuse to answer.

Has anyone ever seen a gun unlock itself from a gun safe, load itself with ammunition from a locked draw, float out to a phone, call an Uber, direct the driver to a school, church or movie theater, float out to the building then hover in midair and shoot a bunch of people???? ANYONE????EVER????

Because I've never seen a properly discarded or stored plastic grocery bag free itself and throw itself into the ocean. NEVER.

To your middle paragraph. Not many people sit around and watch stored guns. But, (you knew there would be a but) no matter how well guns or ammo are locked up, an awful lot of them seem to end up in the hands of folks who use them to intentionally do a lot of harm and bad stuff. What do you think we, as a God loving, peace loving country ought to do to stop guns from being used in this reprehensible manner?

[Escape Artist]

I am amazed that Florida still allows the use of plastic bags in grocery stores. So many other states have banned it. We now have microplastics (very small plastic particles) in our agriculture soil, ocean and just about anywhere you can think of. There are so many studies that verify the dangers of plastics and I cringe every time I go to the grocery store and see 10-20-30 plastic bags per cart. Just one Publics said they can go through thousands of plastic bags in a day. Here is one link that talks about how serious this problem has gotten. It's our new DDT.How microplastics are infiltrating the food you eat (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230103-how-plastic-is-getting-into-our-food) . There are now studies beiing done of earthworms ingesting micro-plastics. ScienceDirect (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969721061003)

:ohdear::ohdear::ohdear:

[Shipping up to Boston]

To your middle paragraph. Not many people sit around and watch stored guns. But, (you knew there would be a but) no matter how well guns or ammo are locked up, an awful lot of them seem to end up in the hands of folks who use them to intentionally do a lot of harm and bad stuff. What do you think we, as a God loving, peace loving country ought to do to stop guns from being used in this reprehensible manner?

Does this theory also apply to kitchen knives, baseball bats, etc....you know, the tools of the streets?

[blueash]

And you clearly do not worship at the alter of "Science" tology like many do today.

Funny how people who do not worship at the alter of "Science" tology want their doctors to have studied the science of medicine, and their engineers to use science in designing safer cars, jets, roads, buildings and bridges. Apparently science is your enemy when it conflicts with your political or religious or ethnic or other ingrained or learned opinions.

The beauty of science is it does not depend on faith, it depends on evidence and admits that such evidence should always be open to challenge, reinterpretation, revision and even replacement. So not even scientists worship science. They respect its process and admire its evidence based conclusions.

[LeRoySmith]

What do you think we.....ought to do to stop guns from being used in this reprehensible manner?

Think about how we got here and try to address it.

Focus on:
Mental illness (of every kind)
Nuclear family
Gun safety like was taught in every boy scout troop for the past hundred years (before the pedos came around)
Personal accountability
Proper punishment for crimes (starting at about 2 years old)
Look into the violence in music, movies, kids cartoons, video games and TV (and many other forms of pop culture

I'm sure I.ve missed a bunch of other common sense approaches that a few beers have blocked from my feeble mind. Oh yeah! and substance abuse :)

[golfing eagles]

Having spent half my life aboard vessels of every size. Yes! When seas are rough, things secured in a normal way, continuous tossing and turning can cause havoc very quickly. Even when extra precautions are taken, at sea, things can/do happen.
Have you seen shipping containers properly secured for sea tossed overboard? Or cars, trucks, trailers, tied down for sea break loose in a car carrier or ferry boat? Things at sea can be very unpredictable. Basically, s--t happens.

And what percentage of plastic bags that end up in the ocean are caused by that "rough seas" scenario as opposed to 2 legged pigs??? Not very much I would guess.

[golfing eagles]

To your middle paragraph. Not many people sit around and watch stored guns. But, (you knew there would be a but) no matter how well guns or ammo are locked up, an awful lot of them seem to end up in the hands of folks who use them to intentionally do a lot of harm and bad stuff. What do you think we, as a God loving, peace loving country ought to do to stop guns from being used in this reprehensible manner?

Then you have to stop the PERSON, not the gun.

[JMintzer]

I would be embarrassed to admit that about my spouse, if that was what my spouse said.

Most "northerners" came from states that already do recycling, already value the idea of re-using plastics rather than disposing of them, and already embrace the idea of cloth bags for dry shelf-stable goods, and thermal bags for refrigerated/frozen/heated goods.

Yes, we waste stuff. We throw things away, we don't grow all our own food and milk our own cows or have chickens who lay our eggs for us here in The Villages. But some of us came from those environments. The "north" is filled with large farms, small farms, off-grid self-sustaining homesteads, people who have compost heaps in their back yards, and so on.

Might want to teach your wife that. Lumping everyone who grew up in the north with blanket statements is a sign of ignorance. If I was your wife and read what you said about me I'd probably have you sleeping in the laundry shed for the next month.

You forget who you're talking to...

[fdpaq0580]

Does this theory also apply to kitchen knives, baseball bats, etc....you know, the tools of the streets?

Actually, I really wouldn't know. I didn't grow up in scenes from West Side Story.

[JMintzer]

I bring my own cloth bags. Maybe the sores in Florida should REWARD their customers that bring in their own cloth bags. Maybe something small as a reward like a 3% discount on purchases.

Considering that 3% is MORE that the grocery store's profit margin, I doubt that will happen...

"Grocery stores operate on razor-thin profit margins. The industry average is between one and three percent, far below other retail sectors..."

[JMintzer]

So, looks like the Oil and Gas industry has messed up America in more ways than one. As to Teflon coated pans - apparently cast iron cookware is superior in every way. Funny how sometimes the best solution is to look backwards toward the OLDER time tested methods.
.......I wonder if the US Amish population have less micro particles floating around in their blood streams. I imagine that they avoid PLASTICS as much as possible.

I hate the whole concept of tips. Very old-fashion! A restaurant or other business should pay their people and have "NO TIPPING" signs on their doors and everywhere, until that STUPID system is abolished!

Ummm...

[JMintzer]

But, that does NOT solve the problem that the lightweight plastic bags BLOW around and adversely affect the environment.

Plastic eyeglasses do NOT blow around like lightweight plastic grocery bags.

Plastic containers like say for apple sauce do NOT BLOW AROUND and end up in oceans and local lakes as much as lightweight plastic bags.

Because it is light enough to BLOW around and get into local lakes and mess up the birds, fish, eagles, and mammals.

Is that was is causing the "Plastic Island", floating around in the pacific? Grocery bags from Publix?

[JMintzer]

sort of like banning guns because they kill people

Hush, you'll give people ideas...

Oh, wait... Too late! :grumpy:

[fdpaq0580]

Then you have to stop the PERSON, not the gun.

So far, so good. Two obvious options, 1, "Stop fhe person"! keep people who are impressionable, irresponsible, prone to violence, want to intimidate or control others with threats and/or actual violence, superiority complexes (narcissistic complex), . Etc. Basically, psychoanalysis for everyone in the US before they are allowed to touch a gun. Your tax dollars at work trying to protect you and your family.
Or, 2, ban guns, with few reasonable exceptions. Yes, bad guys and girls may still get their hands on a gun. But with far fewer guns available, it would be more difficult to come by them. Basically few tax dollars. And, I recon, far more lives saved.
Make your choice. Lives hang in the balance.

[Shipping up to Boston]

So far, so good. Two obvious options, 1, "Stop fhe person"! keep people who are impressionable, irresponsible, prone to violence, want to intimidate or control others with threats and/or actual violence, superiority complexes (narcissistic complex), . Etc. Basically, psychoanalysis for everyone in the US before they are allowed to touch a gun. Your tax dollars at work trying to protect you and your family.
Or, 2, ban guns, with few reasonable exceptions. Yes, bad guys and girls may still get their hands on a gun. But with far fewer guns available, it would be more difficult to come by them. Basically few tax dollars. And, I recon, far more lives saved.
Make your choice. Lives hang in the balance.
Go get ‘em Doc!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I bring my own cloth bags. Maybe the sores in Florida should REWARD their customers that bring in their own cloth bags. Maybe something small as a reward like a 3% discount on purchases.

I don't remember which store it was, when I lived up north. Might've been Stop & Shop. But whoever it was, offered a 10-cent savings off your grocery bill per bag, if you brought in your own bags. There was a maximum savings per visit, so you couldn't put one item in each bag for 20 bags and expect a $2 discount.

But rather than charge 10 cents extra for their plastic bags, you did get that 10 cent discount for bringing yours in.

[fdpaq0580]

Why am I not surprised you missed yet another point. Those are ‘weapons’ as well if you followed anything but gun violence sir. Glad you would quote a Hollywood classic because, like a smaller segment of posters here, your ideas and suppositions are right out of central casting....except a lot of it ends on the cutting room floor

“Somewhere, there’s a place for us. A time and place for us” TOTV

No! I did not miss your point. You do realize that virtually anything and everything can be used to injure or kill. Guns, knives (I used to have some beautiful and illegal ones I used aboard ship because of the ability to use one handed - all gone now), bat's, sticks, rope or cord, chopsticks, forks spoons, water glass, Q-tips, pillows, hands, feet fingers, teeth,,,,everything. But guns are far and away the greatest weapon of choice in use for humans killing one another. And it is very telling that you chose to deflect the seriousness of gun violence by trying to shift the focus to other "potential" weapons not primarily produced for hurting or killing people, unlike guns that are produced for the one thing they do,,, kill!

[JMintzer]

So far, so good. Two obvious options, 1, "Stop fhe person"! keep people who are impressionable, irresponsible, prone to violence, want to intimidate or control others with threats and/or actual violence, superiority complexes (narcissistic complex), . Etc. Basically, psychoanalysis for everyone in the US before they are allowed to touch a gun. Your tax dollars at work trying to protect you and your family.
Or, 2, ban guns, with few reasonable exceptions. Yes, bad guys and girls may still get their hands on a gun. But with far fewer guns available, it would be more difficult to come by them. Basically few tax dollars. And, I recon, far more lives saved.
Make your choice. Lives hang in the balance.

Good luck finding a physician who will take the responsibility to "allow" someone to purchase a gun... Will their malpractice cover them if the person turns out to be a mass shooter?

What about the political leanings of the person doing the "psychoanalysis"? I know more than a few "shrinks" who are rabid anti-gunners. They would love nothing more than to be able to prohibit people from buy a gun...

And since we're now putting a restriction on a "Constitutionally Protected Right", can we have an intelligence test before people vote? Hell, we can't even pass a "Voter ID" bill... It's considered to be racist...

So to recap... No way no how...

[JMintzer]

I don't remember which store it was, when I lived up north. Might've been Stop & Shop. But whoever it was, offered a 10-cent savings off your grocery bill per bag, if you brought in your own bags. There was a maximum savings per visit, so you couldn't put one item in each bag for 20 bags and expect a $2 discount.

But rather than charge 10 cents extra for their plastic bags, you did get that 10 cent discount for bringing yours in.

Most stores don't "charge" for plastic bags. They "collect a tax" levied by the State...

[LeRoySmith]

Is that was is causing the "Plastic Island", floating around in the pacific? Grocery bags from Publix?

I actually just watched a video of a giant trash barge having a mountain of trash pushed off into the ocean by a little bulldozer. The commentary said the barge was from SE Asia but didn't give the country of origin and I have no real knowledge of that so I won't post it. I found it by searching for origins of Pacific trash island.

[Shipping up to Boston]

No! I did not miss your point. You do realize that virtually anything and everything can be used to injure or kill. Guns, knives (I used to have some beautiful and illegal ones I used aboard ship because of the ability to use one handed - all gone now), bat's, sticks, rope or cord, chopsticks, forks spoons, water glass, Q-tips, pillows, hands, feet fingers, teeth,,,,everything. But guns are far and away the greatest weapon of choice in use for humans killing one another. And it is very telling that you chose to deflect the seriousness of gun violence by trying to shift the focus to other "potential" weapons not primarily produced for hurting or killing people, unlike guns that are produced for the one thing they do,,, kill!
I’m actually tip toeing around getting banned on this forum for expanding on a topic that all of us have deep rooted opinions on. Not getting baited. Try Reddit!
Btw....some people just use them for range and target practice. Don’t use the broad brush analogy when you clearly don’t know and can’t speak for the masses...

[fdpaq0580]

Go get ‘em Doc!

GE is a great guy whose opinions often differ from my own. But I respect him and hold him in high regard.
Don't worry, he will "get 'em" when he has the time to waste on little old me.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I am sure, having read hundreds of your well researched and thoughtful posts here, that you have some sort of evidence for THAT statement. I will be back to read the links to the studies.

Does your spellchecker work? I don't normally point out spelling errors, perhaps English is not your first language or you have a learning disability.... but when you make a scientific statement, I do use clues to suggest the amount of education that underlies that statement.

English is not his first language.

As far as cockroaches go - the ones around my house, live outside in the flower bed. I haven't seen one inside my house in over a year (thankfully), and the pest control guy has strict orders to NOT spray in the flower bed. I have organic herbs in there that I use in cooking, and flowers that are intended to attract pollinators. So pesticides in the garden is a huge no-no. And of course - that means there's a LOT of creepy crawlies that wander around it. It's a symbiotic relationship. I leave them alone, they leave me alone.

[JMintzer]

I actually just watched a video of a giant trash barge having a mountain of trash pushed off into the ocean by a little bulldozer. The commentary said the barge was from SE Asia but didn't give the country of origin and I have no real knowledge of that so I won't post it. I found it by searching for origins of Pacific trash island.

Of course it's from Asia... My comment was "tongue in cheek"...

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

So far, so good. Two obvious options, 1, "Stop fhe person"! keep people who are impressionable, irresponsible, prone to violence, want to intimidate or control others with threats and/or actual violence, superiority complexes (narcissistic complex), . Etc. Basically, psychoanalysis for everyone in the US before they are allowed to touch a gun. Your tax dollars at work trying to protect you and your family.
Or, 2, ban guns, with few reasonable exceptions. Yes, bad guys and girls may still get their hands on a gun. But with far fewer guns available, it would be more difficult to come by them. Basically few tax dollars. And, I recon, far more lives saved.
Make your choice. Lives hang in the balance.

Also, you'd know that *that* person is the bad guy, because - he's the one with the gun.

[JMintzer]

I’m actually tip toeing around getting banned on this forum for expanding on a topic that all of us have deep rooted opinions on. Not getting baited. Try Reddit!
Btw....some people just use them for range and target practice. Don’t use the broad brush analogy when you clearly don’t know and can’t speak for the masses...

Got a couple of "Moderator Warnings", have ya'?

Welcome to the "Bad Boys" Club!

[jimjamuser]

Ever see a plastic bag properly secured on a boat, say in a cabinet, jump out all by itself????
The average person riding in a boat - large or small is NOT going to give a flying, fickle finger of fate about whether a plastic store bag is SECURED or NOT. So, the wind blows it off into the ocean or lake. And that happens often enough to cause serious environmental degradation. A year or 2 ago people were volunteering to take their boat out into the Gulf to help clear an area about a mile wide of plastic and plastic bags had formed - due to some wind and tide and wave conditions.

[JMintzer]

The average person riding in a boat - large or small is NOT going to give a flying, fickle finger of fate about whether a plastic store bag is SECURED or NOT. So, the wind blows it off into the ocean or lake. And that happens often enough to cause serious environmental degradation. A year or 2 ago people were volunteering to take their boat out into the Gulf to help clear an area about a mile wide of plastic and plastic bags had formed - due to some wind and tide and wave conditions.

Got a link to that?

[LeRoySmith]

Of course it's from Asia... My comment was "tongue in cheek"...

I didn't know for certain it's from Asia, I wish I had your level of confidence in that.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Got a couple of "Moderator Warnings", have ya'?

Welcome to the "Bad Boys" Club!

Not at all. I don’t take the cheese. This thread, you’d agree, has derailed no?

[Johnson072702]

You are worried about plastic bags... just checking do you use paper plates, or cups, how about utensils, or paper towels or napkins, or best are you or your grandchildren in disposable diapers??? Personally I believe this is where things need to change if you are really worried about the environment?

[retiredguy123]

To get back on topic, my only point about this thread is that Florida doesn't need a state law banning plastic grocery bags.

[Shipping up to Boston]

To get back on topic, my only point about this thread is that Florida doesn't need a state law banning plastic grocery bags.

I second that sir!

[Utah Flyfisher]

I'm one of those snow birds heating and cooling 2 homes... BUT, I bring my free plastic bags back up north with me (where they're banned) to reuse and offset the global warming that I'm contributing to.

We’re not even ‘birds’ yet. We’ve been called ‘flakes’ I’m wondering how we can compensate for the environmental damage we do in our dozen or so flights a year. 😒

[jimjamuser]

... and watch out for deodorant with aluminum too. I have s very long list of what not to do, eat or say anymore.
In the last century, people lived to the average age of 50.
We've come long way in longetivity.
Wish we weren't all so smart.
As far as longevity goes the US is concerned, in 2021 the US ranked 60th among nations at 76 years according to the World Bank. Previously, in 2016 the U S ranked 34th.

[retiredguy123]

I'm one of those snow birds heating and cooling 2 homes... BUT, I bring my free plastic bags back up north with me (where they're banned) to reuse and offset the global warming that I'm contributing to.
Sounds good to me.

[jimjamuser]

Again, it's NOT THE BAG, it's how people dispose of them. I've never seen a plastic grocery bag free itself from a sealed trash bag and blow itself into the ocean, have you??? And these plasma burn plants don't leave microparticles for earthworms.
Plasma burn plants may be capable of that, but around the globe, humans have micro-particles in their blood systems and they have had that for years. Scientists know that earthworm size has decreased in say the last decade, but they don't know WHY. Yet, they are very bothered because earthworms are ACTUALLY very, very important to AGRICULTURE.
......Incidentally, I turned on the car radio to NPR about 2 PM today and the subject was Global Warming (everyone here's favorite subject) and the statement was made that in the last 5 years that Midwest corn and wheat harvests were down 12% due to greater heat. And in the past years the US was located at the perfect latitude sweet-spot for agricultural production and human living. They said that in less than 20 years that perfect latitude will move northward with a center at about Chicago. And in about 100 years or less it may have moved northward to the border of Canada. The west has been burning and many people will move to the US northeast in the near future. Florida will NOT fare well in the future! If someone were interested, they could probably find that broadcast.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Plasma burn plants may be capable of that, but around the globe, humans have micro-particles in their blood systems and they have had that for years. Scientists know that earthworm size has decreased in say the last decade, but they don't know WHY. Yet, they are very bothered because earthworms are ACTUALLY very, very important to AGRICULTURE.
......Incidentally, I turned on the car radio to NPR about 2 PM today and the subject was Global Warming (everyone here's favorite subject) and the statement was made that in the last 5 years that Midwest corn and wheat harvests were down 12% due to greater heat. And in the past years the US was located at the perfect latitude sweet-spot for agricultural production and human living. They said that in less than 20 years that perfect latitude will move northward with a center at about Chicago. And in about 100 years or less it may have moved northward to the border of Canada. The west has been burning and many people will move to the US northeast in the near future. Florida will NOT fare well in the future! If someone were interested, they could probably find that broadcast.

If you find the link, please share

[thelegges]

Does your spellchecker work? I don't normally point out spelling errors, perhaps English is not your first language or you have a learning disability....

Crowd at the water cooler says not only do you point out spelling errors multiple times you PM the people chastise them that either they have lack of education, or that English is not their first language, or have a learning disability.

So your statement “You don’t normally” is quite not correct.

[jimjamuser]

Plastic Island in the Pacific Ocean, the Seventh Continent - Iberdrola (https://www.iberdrola.com/sustainability/plastic-island-in-pacific-eighth-continent#:~:text=Lying%20between%20California%20a nd%20Hawaii,of%20marine%20animals%20each%20year).

I haven't seen it for myself but this doesn't sound great.
That is one interesting link!!!!!

[LeRoySmith]

That is one interesting link!!!!!

I thought so too and it led me to start searching for other articles on the topic and it's interesting but not very pretty.

[jimjamuser]

Even small doses of a powerful hallucinogen, or more likely an underlying psychosis.:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:
My psychosis is better than your psychosis !

[jimjamuser]

Wow, your wife must be really intuitive. How else could she spot the Northerners in Publix without them wearing their Northerner identifying badge?

Plenty of full timers are pushy, annoying, etc, too. Your comment reeks of stereotyping and is patently ridiculous.
She can tell what state you are from due to your dialect and pronounciation.

[jimjamuser]

To your middle paragraph. Not many people sit around and watch stored guns. But, (you knew there would be a but) no matter how well guns or ammo are locked up, an awful lot of them seem to end up in the hands of folks who use them to intentionally do a lot of harm and bad stuff. What do you think we, as a God loving, peace loving country ought to do to stop guns from being used in this reprehensible manner?
The way to stop mass murders is require all guns for civilians to be single shot. Police then confiscate all multiple magazine guns and buy some back until there is mostly single shot. Then the mass murders will decrease. Australia did something along those lines with GREAT SUCCESS!

[LeRoySmith]

The way to stop mass murders is require all guns for civilians to be single shot. Police then confiscate all multiple magazine guns and buy some back until there is mostly single shot. Then the mass murders will decrease. Australia did something along those lines with GREAT SUCCESS!

I wonder if Kennedy was really shot with one single shot rifle?

[jimjamuser]

To get back on topic, my only point about this thread is that Florida doesn't need a state law banning plastic grocery bags.
If it were a vote-able question on a Fl. ballot , I would vote to ban plastic grocery bags.

[jimjamuser]

I thought so too and it led me to start searching for other articles on the topic and it's interesting but not very pretty.
As i always say, "we have to start taking care of our MOTHER". It is the only one we have.

[coffeebean]

That is not the common definition of recycling. The common definition is recovering the material from an item so that it can be used again as that same material - re-cycling. Aluminum from cans can be reused as aluminum; glass from bottles can be reused as glass; plastics can be reused as plastics.

Our trash isn't recycled into energy, it is destroyed (burned) to extract energy. Except for some metals, the original material no longer exists to be reused.

I suppose if you insist on calling trash-to-energy a form of recycling then every engine that burns a petroleum product is also a recycling system that recycles oil into energy.

Just as long as the trash does not wind up in a landfill, I'm good.

[Pugchief]

ban guns, with few reasonable exceptions. Yes, bad guys and girls may still get their hands on a gun. But with far fewer guns available, it would be more difficult to come by them. Basically few tax dollars. And, I recon, far more lives saved.
Make your choice. Lives hang in the balance.

LOL just like making drugs illegal stopped people from using drugs. Did it make drugs "less difficult to come by"? Don't be so naive.

[Pugchief]

......Incidentally, I turned on the car radio to NPR about 2 PM today

Well, that explains a lot....

[coffeebean]

Burning leaves various kinds of altered materials behind. Like wood fire in a fireplace leaves ashes and smoke and various gases, burnt trash leaves stuff, too. What kinds of stuff depends on what the trash consists of. So, the questions I have are, what does the waste from burning consist of (metals, glass, plastic gunk, ash)? Is any of the waste toxic or harmful to the environment in any way.? How is the residue or waste from burning disposed of. What happens to it?
Burning oil, coal, natural gas, to create energy produces some pretty nasty by products. What about trash? Just how clean ( or unclean) is it?
This site explains the Covanta system. The website is excellent and is full of great information.........

Home | Covanta (https://www.covanta.com/)

[coffeebean]

. I agree that there are plenty of distractions from so much corruption, gas-lighting, etc, but with a background in science, I know this is not the "hysteria du jour". I can't do anything about much of the craziness going on right now in the world but I can do my part by bringing bags when I go shopping at the grocery stores as well as other stores. I asked my local Publix and they use thousands of bags a day. Multiply that by the hundreds of Publix, Walmarts, Winn Dixie, etc.,etc in Florida and the number is astronomical. Many of this plastic ends up in landfills and the ocean.

I throw out all my plastic bags into the trash. Covanta burns it. My plastic bags that I discard in the trash do not wind up in a landfill or the ocean.

[coffeebean]

I’m from Canada and we are eliminating plastic bags.. When I come to the Villages I’m so disappointed that stores especially Walmart continue to use plastic bags…Why is it that people can spend $400.00 at Costco who don’t offer bags and don’t have an issue…then go to Walmart and use 10 bags for a $50.00 order…Hello people don’t you see what these bags are doing to the environment…

Here, in The Villages, no plastic bag goes into a landfill or an ocean. Haven't you been reading about Covanta on this thread? No worries. Use all the plastic bags you want. Just toss them in the regular trash and Covanta will incinerate them and turn them into electricity. WIN....WIN.

[coffeebean]

There are many many products sold in plastic containers and people are worried about plastic grocery bags? What about soda, water, many bulk vegetables, condiments such as ketchup and mustard along with a plethora of other products?

Plastics are all around us. We all use plastics in one way or another. Embrace it. Here in The Villages, we do not have to feel guilty about using plastics. Thank goodness for Covanta and their process of clean burning to energy.

[JustSomeGuy]

I am amazed that Florida still allows the use of plastic bags in grocery stores. So many other states have banned it. We now have microplastics (very small plastic particles) in our agriculture soil, ocean and just about anywhere you can think of. There are so many studies that verify the dangers of plastics and I cringe every time I go to the grocery store and see 10-20-30 plastic bags per cart. Just one Publics said they can go through thousands of plastic bags in a day. Here is one link that talks about how serious this problem has gotten. It's our new DDT.How microplastics are infiltrating the food you eat (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230103-how-plastic-is-getting-into-our-food) . There are now studies beiing done of earthworms ingesting micro-plastics. ScienceDirect (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969721061003) May want to research current thoughts on DDT and forget the slogans and songs of the 1970's. Facts are DDT may have been one of the biggest mistakes to ban in the USA. It is less toxic than... wait for it. Caffeine, Tylenol, aspirin. DTT Lingers in blood - true, causes cancer - Nope, other bad stuff.... nope. Check science, not rumor or headlines. links below.

Biggest challenge for microplastics is testing. Most of the tools used are.... wait for it... plastic. EPA admits the goal is to figure out the best way to measure microplastics. (syringe, tubes, hoses, lids for glass jars, pens used by researchers, tables, chair etc....can contaminate research. Much is unknown so to say finding it is a crisis is slightly premature. We simply are just starting to find ways to measure it accurately..... Something to watch, yes. but like cyclamates, we may find out what we ban was better than what we permit now.... cyclamates are not as harmful as sucralose and the other sweeteners of the day - scroll down for chart showing risks of current sweeteners vs cyclamates... link below. feed what would be bath tubs full of something and you will find cancer and other reactions.. that was what led to cyclamate bans.... better if we had it today.

Reading and learning does not hurt....

ddt = How Poisonous is DDT? | American Council on Science and Health (https://www.acsh.org/news/2016/02/11/how-poisonous-is-ddt)


cyclamates -
Health outcomes of non-nutritive sweeteners: analysis of the research landscape - PMC (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5591507/)

(There is a pressing need to develop and standardize collection, extraction, quantification, and identification methods for micro/nanoplastics to improve reliability, consistency and comparability across studies.) Microplastics Research | US EPA (https://www.epa.gov/water-research/microplastics-research)

[coffeebean]

The problem with plastic bags is not just "a few grams of plastic". The problem is that the lightweight plastic bags get blown around into our local lakes and even the Gulf of Mexico - where they cause problems (even death) for birds, fish, and mammals.
.........Then they can decompose and create these micro-particles that NEVER decompose and are ending up messing up earthworms, which are very IMPORTANT to agriculture. Then they end up in carrots and other root crops and then into human beings - where they are producing un-researched problems.

Yikes! I'm surprised mankind has survived this long.

[coffeebean]

I someone does NOT like paper bags, they should take cloth bags to the store.

I'm so glad Publix employees no longer ask, "paper or plastic". I like plastic bags and will continue using them. Just so glad my plasic bags do not wind up in landfills or oceans because Covanta takes care of that. I honestly don't care if plastics have another life through recycling. Burn the suckers.

[golfing eagles]

The average person riding in a boat - large or small is NOT going to give a flying, fickle finger of fate about whether a plastic store bag is SECURED or NOT. So, the wind blows it off into the ocean or lake. And that happens often enough to cause serious environmental degradation. A year or 2 ago people were volunteering to take their boat out into the Gulf to help clear an area about a mile wide of plastic and plastic bags had formed - due to some wind and tide and wave conditions.

So we agree---it's not THE BAG, it's THE PERSON

[golfing eagles]

Plasma burn plants may be capable of that, but around the globe, humans have micro-particles in their blood systems and they have had that for years. Scientists know that earthworm size has decreased in say the last decade, but they don't know WHY. Yet, they are very bothered because earthworms are ACTUALLY very, very important to AGRICULTURE.
......Incidentally, I turned on the car radio to NPR about 2 PM today and the subject was Global Warming (everyone here's favorite subject) and the statement was made that in the last 5 years that Midwest corn and wheat harvests were down 12% due to greater heat. And in the past years the US was located at the perfect latitude sweet-spot for agricultural production and human living. They said that in less than 20 years that perfect latitude will move northward with a center at about Chicago. And in about 100 years or less it may have moved northward to the border of Canada. The west has been burning and many people will move to the US northeast in the near future. Florida will NOT fare well in the future! If someone were interested, they could probably find that broadcast.

And how much were corn and wheat harvests down in the 1930's??????

[coffeebean]

Take a look at the amount of packaging in your grocery cart before you bag your groceries. Rolls of paper towels are individually wrapped, then the individual rolls are wrapped in a group.

Most if your trash that you send to the curb is packaging. The packaging far outweighs the plastic bags.

I think, at this point, after reading post after post after post about how just about EVERYTHING we purchase in a grocery store is packed in plastic, we can all agree plastic is EVERYWHERE, not just in grocery stores.

[golfing eagles]

My psychosis is better than your psychosis !

No argument there :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[coffeebean]

There's this chicken-wire or some such fence on the island of Bonaire, maybe 6' - 8' high, where locals hang things that wash in from the sea. Pretty eye-opening: I saw a few bags but lots of other stuff as well. Clothing. Children's toys. lots of plastic bottles and containers. Those plastic holders that six-packs of beer come in. Styrofoam. Those foam flotation "noodles". A hairpiece ("wig"?) A dilapidated fishing net. Couple of beach balls. Partially-filled plastic water bottles. A couple of things I can't mention here. What appeared to be a beach lounge chair. Lots of other stuff. It was eye-opening to say the least. According to a local I talked to the display changes regularly as new items wash up and old ones are disposed of.

Bags are negligible compared to the huge amounts of detritus tossed into the ocean down there.
Note to self.......paper condoms! That will work.

[fdpaq0580]

LOL just like making drugs illegal stopped people from using drugs. Did it make drugs "less difficult to come by"? Don't be so naive.

My naivete is part of what makes me adorable. 🫠

[fdpaq0580]

This site explains the Covanta system. The website is excellent and is full of great information.........

Home | Covanta (https://www.covanta.com/)

Thanks. I will check it out. But, I suspect that there may be a bit of bias in the information. Like getting medical advice from the guys selling street drugs. Might over build the hype and hide any flaws.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Thanks. I will check it out. But, I suspect that there may be a bit of bias in the information. Like getting medical advice from the guys selling street drugs. Might over build the hype and hide any flaws.

The Phoenix Open is the largest zero-waste sports event in the world. Everything is either re-used, recycled, re-purposed, composted, donated, or converted into energy. Waste Management is the company that handles it all.

[fdpaq0580]

Not at all. I don’t take the cheese. This thread, you’d agree, has derailed no?

Can't derail if there are no tracks. Free form is more stylistic
Oh! Cheese is good! 😋

[fdpaq0580]

I’m actually tip toeing around getting banned on this forum for expanding on a topic that all of us have deep rooted opinions on. Not getting baited. Try Reddit!
Btw....some people just use them for range and target practice. Don’t use the broad brush analogy when you clearly don’t know and can’t speak for the masses...

Don't get banned. I and many others value your input. As for guns, I am exmilitary and a former gun owner, I know a bit about guns. If it is only target practice, a BB gun can serve. Just not the same thrill as a semiautomatic 9mm or 44mag.

[Randall55]

I’m from Canada and we are eliminating plastic bags.. When I come to the Villages I’m so disappointed that stores especially Walmart continue to use plastic bags…Why is it that people can spend $400.00 at Costco who don’t offer bags and don’t have an issue…then go to Walmart and use 10 bags for a $50.00 order…Hello people don’t you see what these bags are doing to the environment…????? Many many items at Costco are wrapped in plastic! Paper towels, toilet paper, baked goods, vegetables, meat, twin packs, etc. etc. Are we saving the environment by buying a BIGGER PLASTIC JUG of laundry detergent? Or shampoo? Ketchup? Mustard? My elderly eyes must be deceiving me. Each time I go to Costco, I see plastic everywhere. I guess I need to schedule an eye appointment.

[simplesimonsaid]

Ocean Dumping was New York's primary method for disposing of its waste until as recently as 1992. The waste was simply dumped it into the ocean. At one point, as much as 80% of New York's garbage ended up out at sea.

and someone is worried about a plastic bag in the gulf of mexico.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Can't derail if there are no tracks. Free form is more stylistic
Oh! Cheese is good! 😋

Too late. In the interest of transparency, I’ve been ‘warned’ by the moderator. I don’t agree with the action but like most forums I suspect, there is little one can do about it. I have seen some ‘interesting’ posts on TOTV by multiple authors who have truly gone out of their way to ‘insult’ the individual(s) whom they have disagreements with......I don’t believe that is the case here. In fact, I pride myself on being creative, original and self deprecating at times.....always without any malice. I guess it’s just one of those things like the lady said “methinks doth protest too much”

[dcammel]

I am amazed that Florida still allows the use of plastic bags in grocery stores. So many other states have banned it. We now have microplastics (very small plastic particles) in our agriculture soil, ocean and just about anywhere you can think of. There are so many studies that verify the dangers of plastics and I cringe every time I go to the grocery store and see 10-20-30 plastic bags per cart. Just one Publics said they can go through thousands of plastic bags in a day. Here is one link that talks about how serious this problem has gotten. It's our new DDT.How microplastics are infiltrating the food you eat (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230103-how-plastic-is-getting-into-our-food) . There are now studies beiing done of earthworms ingesting micro-plastics. ScienceDirect (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969721061003)

Gotta chuckle they want to control plastic bags that carry home your plastic butter tubs, ketchup bottles, spaghetti sauce, mustard, milk bottles, pill bottles, bacon wrappers, self-service meat items, and hundreds of other products in plastic containers. Sounds like another opportunity for a Biden tax based on usage!

[thevillagernie]

No big deal, just take reusable bags with me into the store.

yes,live in de and read your post's...no plastic in De bring reusable bags with you ...no peoblem up here.

[fdpaq0580]

Ocean Dumping was New York's primary method for disposing of its waste until as recently as 1992. The waste was simply dumped it into the ocean. At one point, as much as 80% of New York's garbage ended up out at sea.

and someone is worried about a plastic bag in the gulf of mexico.

"Out of sight, out of mind." Up until recently trash was hidden. Dumped in the ocean, lakes, ravines, mountain valleys, landfills and buried. We couldn't see it, so it didn't exist. But, like a bear in the forest that disappeared behind a tree, it is still there, and just because you don't see it doest mean the danger doesn't exist. Plastic has made our lives easier and more convenient. But the long-term cost is rearing its ugly head. We can't hide it forever.

[fdpaq0580]

Gotta chuckle they want to control plastic bags that carry home your plastic butter tubs, ketchup bottles, spaghetti sauce, mustard, milk bottles, pill bottles, bacon wrappers, self-service meat items, and hundreds of other products in plastic containers. Sounds like another opportunity for a Biden tax based on usage!

Your obvious political shot at Biden is inaccurate. We already pay taxes on things we use. The more you use, the more you pay.
As for plastic bottles, jars, etc, milk, ketchup, sauces and more came in glass. Butter came in paper and cardboard. Same for bacon. Spaghetti still comes in a cardboard box, thank goodness. There are many things plastic does very well, but it is not always the best option.

[Switter]

All Villages trash is transported to the Covanta Lake II, Inc. Energy from Waste (EfW) facility in Okahumpka, Florida where it is burned and turned into energy. This plant produces enough electricity to power more than one million homes annually, while reducing the amount of methane, a greenhouse gas that would otherwise be produced by the trash going to landfills and that is more than 28 times as potent as carbon dioxide at trapping heat in the atmosphere, to zero. The site diverts 21 million tons of waste annually from landfills, while at the same time recycling 1.1 million tons of material, of which 550,000 tons are metals, annually. It does this in an essentially clean manner: Over 99.9 percent of what is discharged into the air is what is typically find in air - water vapor, nitrogen, oxygen, and carbon dioxide. The remaining constituents are well below federal and state standards. (from the Covanta website).

Looks as if our plastics are being put to very good use.

Wow, this is really good information. Thanks for posting it. I was kind of wondering why The villages didn't recycle.

[mambeg]

Look at how much plastic is in your own reusable bag. Everything is wrapped in plastic. Your car is now plastic. Everything is plastic. Try this at home. Weigh your filled grocery bags and then weigh your garbage bags and see how much garbage you are paying for and throwing out. to a land fill.

[bopat]

What about plastic packaging? Can we ban meats wrapped in plastic? Maybe wrap them in reusable cloths or paper?

[Mppl1956]

I am amazed that Florida still allows the use of plastic bags in grocery stores. So many other states have banned it. We now have microplastics (very small plastic particles) in our agriculture soil, ocean and just about anywhere you can think of. There are so many studies that verify the dangers of plastics and I cringe every time I go to the grocery store and see 10-20-30 plastic bags per cart. Just one Publics said they can go through thousands of plastic bags in a day. Here is one link that talks about how serious this problem has gotten. It's our new DDT.How microplastics are infiltrating the food you eat (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230103-how-plastic-is-getting-into-our-food) . There are now studies beiing done of earthworms ingesting micro-plastics. ScienceDirect (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969721061003)

Wait. How did we get to plastic bags. Oh yea it was the same environmentalist that said we were killing all the trees and that was killing the air and the rainforest. Now their solution is the new problem.
Must have something to do with the global cooling, no global warming, no I mean climate change.
Just saying

[Girlcopper]

I am amazed that Florida still allows the use of plastic bags in grocery stores. So many other states have banned it. We now have microplastics (very small plastic particles) in our agriculture soil, ocean and just about anywhere you can think of. There are so many studies that verify the dangers of plastics and I cringe every time I go to the grocery store and see 10-20-30 plastic bags per cart. Just one Publics said they can go through thousands of plastic bags in a day. Here is one link that talks about how serious this problem has gotten. It's our new DDT.How microplastics are infiltrating the food you eat (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230103-how-plastic-is-getting-into-our-food) . There are now studies beiing done of earthworms ingesting micro-plastics. ScienceDirect (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969721061003)
lol. Unreal how many people posted such long responses to this topic. Thats good though. It shows nothing of more importance is on their mind.

[waterflower]

Why are the food manufacturers allowed to use plastic packaging. The root of the problem. These companies should change there horrible ways of poisoning the manufactured food they produce.

[Jazzman]

There's this chicken-wire or some such fence on the island of Bonaire, maybe 6' - 8' high, where locals hang things that wash in from the sea. Pretty eye-opening: I saw a few bags but lots of other stuff as well. Clothing. Children's toys. lots of plastic bottles and containers. Those plastic holders that six-packs of beer come in. Styrofoam. Those foam flotation "noodles". A hairpiece ("wig"?) A dilapidated fishing net. Couple of beach balls. Partially-filled plastic water bottles. A couple of things I can't mention here. What appeared to be a beach lounge chair. Lots of other stuff. It was eye-opening to say the least. According to a local I talked to the display changes regularly as new items wash up and old ones are disposed of.

Bags are negligible compared to the huge amounts of detritus tossed into the ocean down there.

And there is no country of origin label on any of that “trash” but environmental advocates just assume its origin is here in the US.

[opinionist]

I am more concerned with plastic bottles that shed into liquids that are ingested. What was wrong with the old glass bottles?

[Bill14564]

I am more concerned with plastic bottles that shed into liquids that are ingested. What was wrong with the old glass bottles?

Cost of manufacturing, weight, ease of breakage, potential to cause harm (cuts), and likely cost of materials.

[Marine1974]

Assumptions are dangerous!!!!

Buried behind the original poster's statement, and maybe in the cited articles, is the unspoken assumption that plastics we dispose of are going into landfills. Sure, that was true back in New Jersey, but not here.

All plastic that we put in our trash doesn't get anywhere near those poor earthworms. It goes directly into an incinerator that turns it into electricity for powering our clean running and environmentally harmless Teslas.

To produce a battery for your environmentally friendly Tesla the process of extracting lithium consumes significant amounts of water and energy, and lithium mining can pollute the air and water with chemicals and heavy metals. In addition, mining lithium can disrupt wildlife habitats and cause soil erosion, leading to long-term ecological damage. All the earth moving mining equipment runs on diesel fuel . Feb 24, 2023 and after driving your environmentally friendly Tesla until the battery needs replacement, then there is this ;
Disposal. Lithium-ion batteries contain metals such as cobalt, nickel, and manganese, which are toxic and can contaminate water supplies and ecosystems if they leach out of landfills. Additionally, fires in landfills or battery-recycling facilities have been attributed to inappropriate disposal of lithium-ion batteries ..
If you look at cradle to grave with these so called environmentally friendly Tesla’s , not so friendly.
Where do you think the electricity from your charging stations come from ? Research it .

[firefighter4u]

I'm amazed that "other states" ban them. And by "other states" I assume it's California (no surprise there). Thank God Florida has some rational lawmakers. The Graduate, 1967, "I want to say one word to you, Benjamin. Just one word.---Plastics"
Or more germane to that post, "Chicken Little, the sky is falling" :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

The other state that I know is... drum roll please.... New York.

[Shipping up to Boston]

The other state that I know is... drum roll please.... New York.

It saddens me, but MA as well but only in certain communities by ordinance. My own personal protest is to just patronize stores in towns that still offer the choice. Which is all I want. I dont like mandates

[fdpaq0580]

What about plastic packaging? Can we ban meats wrapped in plastic? Maybe wrap them in reusable cloths or paper?

Butcher paper. Deli meat, cheese is often still wrapped in it. Old school works well in many cases.

[airstreamingypsy]

How sad that so many just don't care and have no concern for the world. It's so easy to bring your own bags to the store, and reuse them.....

[fdpaq0580]

lol. Unreal how many people posted such long responses to this topic. Thats good though. It shows nothing of more importance is on their mind.

Not necessarily so! Could just be one of many important topics, but you have to start somewhere, and plastic pollution is as good a topic as any.

[ron32162]

What is all of your food wrapped in, your milk packaged in, paper towels wrapped in ..etc. This is in every State. Do you think the government is not aware. They don't care but keep sending them some money for their green this and that it will be taken care of wink,wink.

[Bill14564]

Butcher paper. Deli meat, cheese is often still wrapped in it. Old school works well in many cases.

But would this actually work? Rather than a deli case full of see-through packages of cheeses and meats you would prefer a case full of opaque, white wrappers? Or are you truly going back to old school and doing away with all prepackaged deli items in favor of a longer line at the deli counter?

The deli counter could absolutely use paper rather than plastic to wrap your freshly-sliced items but I don't see how this could work for the bulk of the prepackaged items in the deli case.

[fdpaq0580]

I am more concerned with plastic bottles that shed into liquids that are ingested. What was wrong with the old glass bottles?

Nothing! Bring back glass bottles, jars, etc. Beer is best in glass, not plastic. Same with wine, or any alcoholic beverage. Red Solo cup be damned! Give me glass, I say, I say!

[jimjamuser]

I wonder if Kennedy was really shot with one single shot rifle?
Kennedy was shot with a cheap mail order bolt-action 6.5 caliber Italian Army Carcano. That is not counting the possible controversial other shooters.

[fdpaq0580]

To produce a battery for your environmentally friendly Tesla the process of extracting lithium consumes significant amounts of water and energy, and lithium mining can pollute the air and water with chemicals and heavy metals. In addition, mining lithium can disrupt wildlife habitats and cause soil erosion, leading to long-term ecological damage. All the earth moving mining equipment runs on diesel fuel . Feb 24, 2023 and after driving your environmentally friendly Tesla until the battery needs replacement, then there is this ;
Disposal. Lithium-ion batteries contain metals such as cobalt, nickel, and manganese, which are toxic and can contaminate water supplies and ecosystems if they leach out of landfills. Additionally, fires in landfills or battery-recycling facilities have been attributed to inappropriate disposal of lithium-ion batteries ..
If you look at cradle to grave with these so called environmentally friendly Tesla’s , not so friendly.
Where do you think the electricity from your charging stations come from ? Research it .

Some from coal, oil. And some from sunlight, wind, hydro, tidal, burning waste. Small steps to a better, cleaner, healthier future. Gotta learn to walk before you can run. Get up and move! Don't just sit, mired in the smoky, oily past.