Where are the police?

[LoisR]

The Daily Sun has recently published a series of major articles about how unsafe Forida's roadways are. Over 800 pedestrian deaths were determined last year to be the result of dangerous drivers.
We have to travel periodically to Tampa, and have been doing this for over five years. Yesterday was only the second time we had seen a police car on the roadway. He was parked between the roadways, as cars sped by.
We've never seen one patrolling any of the roads surrounding The Villages or in the The Villages. They're certainly needed here.
Want to stop bad drivers? Get the police on the roadways doing their job.

[Bill14564]

The Daily Sun has recently published a series of major articles about how unsafe Forida's roadways are. Over 800 pedestrian deaths were determined last year to be the result of dangerous drivers.
We have to travel periodically to Tampa, and have been doing this for over five years. Yesterday was only the second time we had seen a police car on the roadway. He was parked between the roadways, as cars sped by.
We've never seen one patrolling any of the roads surrounding The Villages or in the The Villages. They're certainly needed here.
Want to stop bad drivers? Get the police on the roadways doing their job.

Look at a local paper that does not focus on only sunshine and roses in the Villages and you will see many reports of police activity. They are already doing their jobs; bad drivers are the least of their problems.

How many additional officers would you like? At least 800 so they can be permanently assigned to the locations where the pedestrians were killed? 800 more to be assigned to the next set of roads? Triple that to 5,000 additional so they can be assigned to those locations on three shifts?

The police cannot be everywhere and we really, really do not want them to be. I don't know what the answer is to untrained, uncaring, or distracted drivers but an overabundance of police is not it.

[Pondboy]

I’m sure the police chief would like more officers to patrol….but no one wants to pay more taxes to support his efforts.

[fdpaq0580]

Look at a local paper that does not focus on only sunshine and roses in the Villages and you will see many reports of police activity. Bad drivers are the least of their problems.

How many additional officers would you like? At least 800 so they can be permanently assigned to the locations where the pedestrians were killed? 800 more to be assigned to the next set of roads? Triple that to 5,000 additional so they can be assigned to those locations on three shifts?

The police cannot be everywhere and we really, really do not want them to be. I don't know what the answer is to untrained, uncaring, or distracted drivers but an overabundance of police is not it.

Neither is insufficient number of police. Have you heard that there are folks that want to defund (get rid of?) the police? Maybe escalating penalties for law breakers, like like a tracking device attached to your vehicle that records where you are what your speed is. Maybe different license levels required to buy/own/drive vehicles with different capabilities ( size, top speed, etc). I go to the doctor, grocery shopping, eat out once a week, occasionally go to Ocala. For me to buy a corvette, mustang, Porsche would be throwing money away, since I very seldom have the opportunity to drive over 55mph legally.

[dewilson58]

$ $ $

[Bill14564]

Neither is insufficient number of police. Have you heard that there are folks that want to defund (get rid of?) the police? Maybe escalating penalties for law breakers, like like a tracking device attached to your vehicle that records where you are what your speed is. Maybe different license levels required to buy/own/drive vehicles with different capabilities ( size, top speed, etc). I go to the doctor, grocery shopping, eat out once a week, occasionally go to Ocala. For me to buy a corvette, mustang, Porsche would be throwing money away, since I very seldom have the opportunity to drive over 55mph legally.

There are already different classes of licenses for motorcycles and for larger vehicles.

But rather than have a different license level for top speed, why not just legislate that ALL vehicles have a governor limiting the top speed to 75mph? If there are roads where the limit is higher they are few and far between. Most roads have limits less than 75mph already so we could even consider a lower number. Let's not wait until someone else is killed, let's reduce or eliminate the problem now!

[CarlR33]

Careful what you wish for. I would envision someday when electronic monitoring of driving maybe mandatory for vehicle insurance instead of more police for traffic. It’s already happening on a voluntary level. We monitor fleet drivers, speed, harsh braking, time over speed, etc.

[Arctic Fox]

The cheapest way to catch speeders, or maybe persuade people not to speed in the first place, is through the use of speed cameras

These can, of course, be vandalized and many lawyers seem to specialize in getting people off the hook for traffic offenses, then there are those who complain that the police just use them to raise funds...

Ah, so many problems; so few solutions

[kkingston57]

$ $ $

And what good would the extra $$$ do? Police would have to be everywhere to stop speeding careless drivers what ever.

[fdpaq0580]

There are already different classes of licenses for motorcycles and for larger vehicles.

But rather than have a different license level for top speed, why not just legislate that ALL vehicles have a governor limiting the top speed to 75mph? If there are roads where the limit is higher they are few and far between. Most roads have limits less than 75mph already so we could even consider a lower number. Let's not wait until someone else is killed, let's reduce or eliminate the problem now!

Ever heard of golf carts exceeding 20 mph? Wonder how they do that? Governor is just begging to be tampered with. Other than that, I like the idea.

[fdpaq0580]

Careful what you wish for. I would envision someday when electronic monitoring of driving maybe mandatory for vehicle insurance instead of more police for traffic. It’s already happening on a voluntary level. We monitor fleet drivers, speed, harsh braking, time over speed, etc.

Self driving cars that the AI controls cannot exceed speed limits. AI will also pull to a controlled stop and lock the doors when instructed to do so by LE.
My insurance already monitors my driving. Apparently, I'm a good boy or girl. Are youuu? 🫠

[BrianL99]

The cheapest way to catch speeders, or maybe persuade people not to speed in the first place, is through the use of speed cameras


Ah, so many problems; so few solutions

The cheapest and easiest way, is to require electronic speed and acceleration controls in vehicles.

Mainline automobile manufactures produce cars with top end speeds that exceed 150 MPH (I have one). Why are manufacturers allowed to do it?

It's like the old story about having parking lots at bars. You're not supposed to drink and drive, but by law in most states, "bars" are required to have parking spaces.

Drones are just the tip of the iceberg, for things that are likely to happen in the near future. How long do you think it will be, before the technology to listen to everyone's cell phone conversations is available on Amazon, for $29.95?

Technology is far out-pacing our ability and will to regulate.

[Number 10 GI]

The country needs monitoring of purchases we make. One bottle of whiskey every 6 months to control alcoholism and drunk driving. To further prevent drunk driving, only one drink at a bar or even ban bars. Need to monitor the foods people purchase, no high fat or high calorie foods to control obesity and diabetes. There should be limits on how big of an automobile a person can buy. A Smart car for singles and couples. A Fiat 500 size car for a family of 4. No car larger than for a family of 4, 2 children are sufficient. No family should exceed 2 children, mandatory sterilization after the 2nd child. No car should be manufactured with an engine larger than 1 liter, gotta save the environment and reduce the need for fossil fuels. Totally prohibit the manufacture of large luxury cars. You don't need A/C, electric windows or door locks. Homes should be based on the number of inhabitants, 1 bed room for a single person and a couple. House doesn't need to be any larger than 800 square feet in this category. Private swimming pools banned, there are public pools you can use. Timers on showers, 3 minutes is sufficient to bathe, save water and electricity/gas to heat the water. Getting back to police, speed bumps on roadways to slow traffic. Stop lights every 2 miles on the toll roads and interstate highways to slow traffic. Need to re-take the driver's license every 2 years including a driving test. Every year for people over 50 years old. Need to provide justification for a driver's license. If you live near a bus stop, you don't need a car. Actually, we could just ban private ownership of automobiles. Only allow cars for taxi service. We don't need airplanes, railroads can transport people more efficiently. Electric service should be turned off at 10:00 pm, everyone should be off the streets and in bed at that time. Would really cut back on the amount of electricity needed. I could keep on going but I'm getting tired, 10:00 pm is approaching.

[Topspinmo]

IMO over 70% are bad drivers in too big hurry and impatient. They are overwhelmed. Now let talk about druggies, drunks, and criminals.

[Topspinmo]

The country needs monitoring of purchases we make. One bottle of whiskey every 6 months to control alcoholism and drunk driving. To further prevent drunk driving, only one drink at a bar or even ban bars. Need to monitor the foods people purchase, no high fat or high calorie foods to control obesity and diabetes. There should be limits on how big of an automobile a person can buy. A Smart car for singles and couples. A Fiat 500 size car for a family of 4. No car larger than for a family of 4, 2 children are sufficient. No family should exceed 2 children, mandatory sterilization after the 2nd child. No car should be manufactured with an engine larger than 1 liter, gotta save the environment and reduce the need for fossil fuels. Totally prohibit the manufacture of large luxury cars. You don't need A/C, electric windows or door locks. Homes should be based on the number of inhabitants, 1 bed room for a single person and a couple. House doesn't need to be any larger than 800 square feet in this category. Private swimming pools banned, there are public pools you can use. Timers on showers, 3 minutes is sufficient to bathe, save water and electricity/gas to heat the water. Getting back to police, speed bumps on roadways to slow traffic. Stop lights every 2 miles on the toll roads and interstate highways to slow traffic. Need to re-take the driver's license every 2 years including a driving test. Every year for people over 50 years old. Need to provide justification for a driver's license. If you live near a bus stop, you don't need a car. Actually, we could just ban private ownership of automobiles. Only allow cars for taxi service. We don't need airplanes, railroads can transport people more efficiently. Electric service should be turned off at 10:00 pm, everyone should be off the streets and in bed at that time. Would really cut back on the amount of electricity needed. I could keep on going but I'm getting tired, 10:00 pm is approaching.

I get you’re :jester: but



That’s what get in free country, have right to drink yourself to death, eat yourself to death, and drug yourself to death. :sigh:

Too many people to take drivers test every two years, besides it won’t do no good anyway. :icon_bored:

[dewilson58]

And what good would the extra $$$ do? Police would have to be everywhere to stop speeding careless drivers what ever.

Yep, Copper on every corner.

:22yikes:

[Dusty_Star]

The Daily Sun has recently published a series of major articles about how unsafe Forida's roadways are. Over 800 pedestrian deaths were determined last year to be the result of dangerous drivers.
We have to travel periodically to Tampa, and have been doing this for over five years. Yesterday was only the second time we had seen a police car on the roadway. He was parked between the roadways, as cars sped by.
We've never seen one patrolling any of the roads surrounding The Villages or in the The Villages. They're certainly needed here.
Want to stop bad drivers? Get the police on the roadways doing their job.

I would guess that most of us do not want to live in a police state. Just drive defensibly. You will be okay.

[shaw8700@outlook.com]

There are already different classes of licenses for motorcycles and for larger vehicles.

But rather than have a different license level for top speed, why not just legislate that ALL vehicles have a governor limiting the top speed to 75mph? If there are roads where the limit is higher they are few and far between. Most roads have limits less than 75mph already so we could even consider a lower number. Let's not wait until someone else is killed, let's reduce or eliminate the problem now!
But speed is only one cause of accidents. What the OP was writing about is the pedestrians that get killed. The lady who was killed in LSL was at wrong time/wrong place accident.

What really is disturbing is all the people who drive past school buses when the STOP sign is out. That should be criminal.

You could put governors on all cars but that would do anything for that woman or children getting to school/home safely.

What we need to do is make it so that phones don’t work when the cars are moving.

[Taltarzac725]

But speed is only one cause of accidents. What the OP was writing about is the pedestrians that get killed. The lady who was killed in LSL was at wrong time/wrong place accident.

What really is disturbing is all the people who drive past school buses when the STOP sign is out. That should be criminal.

You could put governors on all cars but that would do anything for that woman or children getting to school/home safely.

What we need to do is make it so that phones don’t work when the cars are moving.

Now that is a good idea about cell phones not working while driving. And technology might get to the point that a cell phone will be imbedded in the vehicle and you can have a conversation over a speaker and voice dial numbers.

Pedestrian deaths have been a bad problem on US 19 in Pinellas County here in Florida for decades. Not much that works has been done as you have a large number of retail stores and cars often going 75 mph or faster.

[Dusty_Star]

But speed is only one cause of accidents. What the OP was writing about is the pedestrians that get killed. The lady who was killed in LSL was at wrong time/wrong place accident.

What really is disturbing is all the people who drive past school buses when the STOP sign is out. That should be criminal.

You could put governors on all cars but that would do anything for that woman or children getting to school/home safely.

What we need to do is make it so that phones don’t work when the cars are moving.

If one cared about pedestrians, then there should be sidewalks on every street in the villages.

Running a stopped school bus is illegal. Or am I remembering another state?

I believe the OP was talking about driving to Tampa.

[Bill14564]

If one cared about pedestrians, then there should be sidewalks on every street in the villages.

Running a stopped school bus is illegal. Or am I remembering another state?

I believe the OP was talking about driving to Tampa.

Sidewalks are not needed on every street in the Villages. There *is* a sidewalk where the pedestrian was hit in LSL. What is needed is more alertness by both drivers and pedestrians.

[CybrSage]

I say we need another 10,000 or so officers to keep pedestrians from J walking, crossing against the light, using cell phone while walking, etc.

[CybrSage]

Now that is a good idea about cell phones not working while driving. And technology might get to the point that a cell phone will be imbedded in the vehicle and you can have a conversation over a speaker and voice dial numbers.

Pedestrian deaths have been a bad problem on US 19 in Pinellas County here in Florida for decades. Not much that works has been done as you have a large number of retail stores and cars often going 75 mph or faster.

Good idea, stop the GPS map program from working when it is needed the most.
Let's also stop mobile phones from working while people walk...to prevent distractioned walkers.

[MandoMan]

Look at a local paper that does not focus on only sunshine and roses in the Villages and you will see many reports of police activity. They are already doing their jobs; bad drivers are the least of their problems.

How many additional officers would you like? At least 800 so they can be permanently assigned to the locations where the pedestrians were killed? 800 more to be assigned to the next set of roads? Triple that to 5,000 additional so they can be assigned to those locations on three shifts?

The police cannot be everywhere and we really, really do not want them to be. I don't know what the answer is to untrained, uncaring, or distracted drivers but an overabundance of police is not it.

I think a sizable percentage of the pedestrian deaths are homeless junkies walking along the highway in dark clothing at night. They are virtually invisible unless one is using high beam headlights. They don’t want to walk in the weeds to the side of the road.

[Taltarzac725]

I think a sizable percentage of the pedestrian deaths are homeless junkies walking along the highway in dark clothing at night. They are virtually invisible unless one is using high beam headlights. They don’t want to walk in the weeds to the side of the road.

No. There are not that many homeless junkies.

[tjlee500]

Here are the major causes in Florida. Not easy for police to detect all of this. You can be a great driver but ONE distraction can be fatal etc.

By: RTRLAWJan 3, 2024
What Are the 6 Major Causes of Car Accidents in Florida?

Personal Injury
Florida’s roads are among the most hazardous in the United States, with the state ranking third in the nation for the most fatalities due to car accidents. The influx of out-of-state travelers and heavy freight transportation on already congested highways exacerbates the risk of accidents.

1. Speeding: A Major Hazard
Speeding contributes to a considerable number of road accidents each year in Florida. The tendency to drive over the speed limit or too fast for conditions often leads to severe crashes, underscoring the need for stricter speed regulation and driver awareness programs.

2. Distracted Driving: An Ongoing Challenge
Distracted driving remains a leading cause of crashes, with 333 fatalities in 2021 in Florida – the highest in the state for at least eight years. Texting while driving, which is six times more dangerous than driving intoxicated, continues to be a leading reason for many crashes in the state.

3. Driving Under the Influence: A Persistent Problem
In Florida, 30% of car accidents are caused by people driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs. These incidents often result in severe injuries or fatalities, highlighting the need for rigorous enforcement of DUI laws and public education about the risks of impaired driving.

4. Motorcycle Safety: A Key Focus
The state’s pleasant weather and scenic routes make it a popular destination for motorcyclists. However, motorcycle accidents continue to be a major concern, often leading to serious injuries or fatalities, especially among riders not wearing helmets. Promoting helmet use and safe riding practices are essential for reducing these incidents.

5. Seatbelt Use: A Crucial Safety Measure
Seatbelt usage is a critical factor in preventing fatalities and serious injuries in car crashes. Florida law enforcement continuously stresses the importance of wearing seatbelts to enhance road safety and reduce the risk of death or injury in accidents.

6. Weather Conditions
Known for sudden thunderstorms and severe weather events like hurricanes, Florida’s shifting weather conditions can rapidly deteriorate road conditions, posing additional challenges to drivers.

[Sabella]

Most people who are driving in the villages shouldn’t - let’s be honest about what aging does to a person‘s driving skills.

[Rodneysblue]

The Daily Sun has recently published a series of major articles about how unsafe Forida's roadways are. Over 800 pedestrian deaths were determined last year to be the result of dangerous drivers.
We have to travel periodically to Tampa, and have been doing this for over five years. Yesterday was only the second time we had seen a police car on the roadway. He was parked between the roadways, as cars sped by.
We've never seen one patrolling any of the roads surrounding The Villages or in the The Villages. They're certainly needed here.
Want to stop bad drivers? Get the police on the roadways doing their job.
When ever I go out I see officers patrolling different areas around Orange Blossom and Spanish Springs.

[opinionist]

I practice defensive walking when I am out on the street. There are plenty of drivers who don't see, hear, or think well. Maybe they should not be on the road, but try telling them that. If everyone elevated their sense of awareness, the problem would be reduced.

[vinricci]

I wonder if local law enforcement is pressured by Developers not to ruin the friendly home town aura by issuing too many citations. If they patrolled Morse and Buena Vista more often their departments would bring in revenue to fund more officers and vehicles and it would keep us all safer from those who do 50 mph in roundabouts.

[nn0wheremann]

Careful what you wish for. I would envision someday when electronic monitoring of driving maybe mandatory for vehicle insurance instead of more police for traffic. It’s already happening on a voluntary level. We monitor fleet drivers, speed, harsh braking, time over speed, etc.
You are already electronically monitored, by the communication system in your car. That button you can press for emergency help gives the manufactrer a window into how much you drive, when, by what routes, and how and when you complete maintenance. They sell this data to insurance companies or anyone else who wants to pay.

[Polarlys]

I see plenty of police in and around the "BUBBLE". I see them almost daily traveling on Buena Vista, El Camino, Morse Blvd. . Are they patrolling or traveling through. I haven't asked them so I don't know. I occasionally see them running radar on Buena Vista, El Camino and, yes, even on Morse. So to say you never see them you must have very dark glasses on. They are around. It's rare that I see them in and around the village local streets unless responding to a residential call or maybe a motor vehicle collision but they are around.

[jimmy o]

The Daily Sun has recently published a series of major articles about how unsafe Forida's roadways are. Over 800 pedestrian deaths were determined last year to be the result of dangerous drivers.
We have to travel periodically to Tampa, and have been doing this for over five years. Yesterday was only the second time we had seen a police car on the roadway. He was parked between the roadways, as cars sped by.
We've never seen one patrolling any of the roads surrounding The Villages or in the The Villages. They're certainly needed here.
Want to stop bad drivers? Get the police on the roadways doing their job.
Florida is way down the list for traffic fatalities. Car accidents are inevitable, and the more cars and drivers the more accidents will happen, and dome of them fatal. We all need to just worry about our own driving.

[airstreamingypsy]

Neither is insufficient number of police. Have you heard that there are folks that want to defund (get rid of?) the police? Maybe escalating penalties for law breakers, like like a tracking device attached to your vehicle that records where you are what your speed is. Maybe different license levels required to buy/own/drive vehicles with different capabilities ( size, top speed, etc). I go to the doctor, grocery shopping, eat out once a week, occasionally go to Ocala. For me to buy a corvette, mustang, Porsche would be throwing money away, since I very seldom have the opportunity to drive over 55mph legally.

FYI, Defund never meant get rid of, it was a stupid choice of words to describe what they wanted, which was to reallocate some funds to hire mental health and social workers to relieve the police departments and free them to fight crime.

[Switter]

Florida is way down the list for traffic fatalities. Car accidents are inevitable, and the more cars and drivers the more accidents will happen, and dome of them fatal. We all need to just worry about our own driving.

One person in this thread posted that Florida is third in the nation for traffic fatalities. I haven't fact checked it though.

[jimleas]

Let me get this right. A newspaper which refuses to print a single article about traffic incidents in the Villages does a major expose of traffic problems in Florida. A bit hypocritical I'd say!

[Happydaz]

Florida is way down the list for traffic fatalities. Car accidents are inevitable, and the more cars and drivers the more accidents will happen, and dome of them fatal. We all need to just worry about our own driving.

I don’t seem able to find data that shows Florida “is way down the list for traffic fatalities.” All the data I see shows Florida to be in the top 10-20% of all states for fatalities per 100,000 residents or per million miles driven.

[Bill14564]

I don’t seem able to find data that shows Florida “is way down the list for traffic fatalities.” All the data I see shows Florida to be in the top 10-20% of all states for fatalities per 100,000 residents or per million miles driven.

Florida ranking in 2022 according to data on the IIHS/HLDI (https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state) website (no idea who they are):

Total number of deaths: 3rd
Deaths per 100,000 population: 15th
Deaths per 100 million miles driven: 14th

Pretty solidly at the bottom of the top 30%

[Road-Runner]

By all means, lets sign away our free will and sign up for a police state. Some people will actually embrace '1984' when it's fully implemented.

[Johnsocat]

Wow, I can't believe how many responses invite government and regulation into your car's passenger seat. The government will know who you are, where you are and where you go every time you get in your vehicle.
Be careful of the unintended consequences of what you ask for.

[Redsmom]

One thing I noticed after reading the articles about Florida’s unsafe roadways were photos of pedestrians/bike riders RIDING through crosswalks. I learned as a youngster you never ride through a crosswalk, instead you get off your bike, scooter, whatever, and walk through the crosswalk. Maybe educating pedestrians might be a good place to start to save lives.

[bsloan1960]

Our experience is vastly different than yours. We frequently travel from 44 up 301 to the 466 area, and beyond. I honestly think that we see at least 1 police car every trip- we often see as many as 3-4. These are Wildwood, Sumter Sheriffs, and occasionally State Police. We don't travel the larger highways so I have no idea about those.The Daily Sun has recently published a series of major articles about how unsafe Forida's roadways are. Over 800 pedestrian deaths were determined last year to be the result of dangerous drivers.
We have to travel periodically to Tampa, and have been doing this for over five years. Yesterday was only the second time we had seen a police car on the roadway. He was parked between the roadways, as cars sped by.
We've never seen one patrolling any of the roads surrounding The Villages or in the The Villages. They're certainly needed here.
Want to stop bad drivers? Get the police on the roadways doing their job.

[ElDiabloJoe]

One person in this thread posted that Florida is third in the nation for traffic fatalities. I haven't fact checked it though.

Huh. 4th largest state and 3rd in traffic fatalities. I understand Alaska doesn't have a lot of roadway. I'm guessing Rhode Island is way down the list, like upper 40's? Proportional to state size, makes sense.

[HORNET]

If people would just drive the speed limit and obey the signs!

[Two Bills]

If people would just drive the speed limit and obey the signs!

Why?
Who cares.

[jimjamuser]

The Daily Sun has recently published a series of major articles about how unsafe Forida's roadways are. Over 800 pedestrian deaths were determined last year to be the result of dangerous drivers.
We have to travel periodically to Tampa, and have been doing this for over five years. Yesterday was only the second time we had seen a police car on the roadway. He was parked between the roadways, as cars sped by.
We've never seen one patrolling any of the roads surrounding The Villages or in the The Villages. They're certainly needed here.
Want to stop bad drivers? Get the police on the roadways doing their job.
I have seen a few police cars in The Villages, but I DON'T think there are ENOUGH of them for the combination of high priced items that would be in the average Villager's home and the fact that older retired Villagers would seem to be an easy mark. Also, often the house is vacant in the summer or because Villagers take cruises and travel often.
.........I have had valuable tools taken while away and the Police never were able to recover them.
.........Also, I believe that more people are speeding after Covid than before. The roads were fairly open then and people got used to driving way over any speed limits.

[Happydaz]

The original poster was talking about the Daily Sun article about the very high death rate of pedestrians in Florida. Over 800 pedestrians have been killed this past year. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the Governors Highway Safety Association show a state by state comparison of all 50 states. They show that in 2023 Florida ranked #2 out of all 50 states in pedestrian deaths per 100,000 people. (Only New Mexico was higher) In 2022 Florida was the #4 worst state for pedestrian deaths. (Only New Mexico, Arizona, and Louisiana were higher in 2022) Florida is getting more dangerous every year for pedestrians. The Daily Sun article is right on target. Besides more policing, the state needs to look at ways to make roads safer for people to cross.

[Obrez]

Orlando is one of the leading cities for pedestrian hits snd deaths by vehicles. Reason; city was built first for cars (post WWIi) and not for pedestrians.

[GandyW]

The Daily Sun has recently published a series of major articles about how unsafe Forida's roadways are. Over 800 pedestrian deaths were determined last year to be the result of dangerous drivers.
We have to travel periodically to Tampa, and have been doing this for over five years. Yesterday was only the second time we had seen a police car on the roadway. He was parked between the roadways, as cars sped by.
We've never seen one patrolling any of the roads surrounding The Villages or in the The Villages. They're certainly needed here.
Want to stop bad drivers? Get the police on the roadways doing their job.

Too many pedestrians just walk out wherever they desire which is a big part of the problem. Use crosswalks, pay attention two looking both ways, don’t assume that drivers see you.

[jimjamuser]

I’m sure the police chief would like more officers to patrol….but no one wants to pay more taxes to support his efforts.
I would gladly pay more taxes for better Policing. My house was robbed of about $5,000 in tools. I bet that I am NOT the only one that feels that way. I would rather pay for better roads and Policing rather than pay for all the flowers on the roads and intersections.

[jimjamuser]

Careful what you wish for. I would envision someday when electronic monitoring of driving maybe mandatory for vehicle insurance instead of more police for traffic. It’s already happening on a voluntary level. We monitor fleet drivers, speed, harsh braking, time over speed, etc.
To me, that is just good social evolution. I liked the idea of speed sensors and cameras on traffic lights. Drones with cameras that could catch speeders and drunk drivers would be great with me.

[MrFlorida]

Funny, I have seen posts here where someone has gotten a ticket, and then complained how over zealous the police were. Now they want more police to give out tickets.... how ironic.

[GoldenBoy]

By all means, lets sign away our free will and sign up for a police state. Some people will actually embrace '1984' when it's fully implemented.

It is way closer than you think.

[jimjamuser]

I practice defensive walking when I am out on the street. There are plenty of drivers who don't see, hear, or think well. Maybe they should not be on the road, but try telling them that. If everyone elevated their sense of awareness, the problem would be reduced.
I rarely walk on the street. There are circle tracks made specifically for jogging or walking. Also some have exercise machines available. And there are specific areas to walk dogs. There should be very little need for most people to walk on streets, especially busy ones.

[jimjamuser]

I wonder if local law enforcement is pressured by Developers not to ruin the friendly home town aura by issuing too many citations. If they patrolled Morse and Buena Vista more often their departments would bring in revenue to fund more officers and vehicles and it would keep us all safer from those who do 50 mph in roundabouts.
I second that emotion. And the ideas involved.

[jimjamuser]

FYI, Defund never meant get rid of, it was a stupid choice of words to describe what they wanted, which was to reallocate some funds to hire mental health and social workers to relieve the police departments and free them to fight crime.
Yes, that idea had some value. And Police don't like to go to domestic disputes.

[jimjamuser]

Let me get this right. A newspaper which refuses to print a single article about traffic incidents in the Villages does a major expose of traffic problems in Florida. A bit hypocritical I'd say!
That is a thought that i had right away.

[graciegirl]

The Daily Sun has recently published a series of major articles about how unsafe Forida's roadways are. Over 800 pedestrian deaths were determined last year to be the result of dangerous drivers.
We have to travel periodically to Tampa, and have been doing this for over five years. Yesterday was only the second time we had seen a police car on the roadway. He was parked between the roadways, as cars sped by.
We've never seen one patrolling any of the roads surrounding The Villages or in the The Villages. They're certainly needed here.
Want to stop bad drivers? Get the police on the roadways doing their job.

Oh I feel so defensive for the police. Overworked and underpaid and certainly underappreciated. They probably have been called out for a shooting...there is a new one every day and usually you can predict it will be a young man who has shot another young man....but they still are called for things like that..........not to mention the folks who get all liquored up or drugged up and beat up on each other...they ring for the law. Then of course there are the folks stealing things that others have worked hard for....they would be danged annoyed if a nice patrolman didn't show up to see what and who done it. I am a bit prejudiced....I am very old and was raised by an officer of the law who had more times then to give out speeding tickets. I will always defend our ladies and gentleman who protect and serve us. Sorry......I understand that your fears are justified but it is more the situation the world is in rather than someone NOT doing their job. I don't know anymore what is wrong with so many people.

[shaw8700@outlook.com]

I wonder if local law enforcement is pressured by Developers not to ruin the friendly home town aura by issuing too many citations. If they patrolled Morse and Buena Vista more often their departments would bring in revenue to fund more officers and vehicles and it would keep us all safer from those who do 50 mph in roundabouts.

The money from tickets DOES NOT GO TO THE POLICE STATIONS THAT ISSUED THEM.

[BobnBev]

The Daily Sun has recently published a series of major articles about how unsafe Forida's roadways are. Over 800 pedestrian deaths were determined last year to be the result of dangerous drivers.
We have to travel periodically to Tampa, and have been doing this for over five years. Yesterday was only the second time we had seen a police car on the roadway. He was parked between the roadways, as cars sped by.
We've never seen one patrolling any of the roads surrounding The Villages or in the The Villages. They're certainly needed here.
Want to stop bad drivers? Get the police on the roadways doing their job.

I see lots of Sherrif's cars in TV all the time.

[JMintzer]

I would gladly pay more taxes for better Policing. My house was robbed of about $5,000 in tools. I bet that I am NOT the only one that feels that way. I would rather pay for better roads and Policing rather than pay for all the flowers on the roads and intersections.

Your taxes don't pay for flowers...

[WingedFoot78]

Yesterday, I saw a sheriff's car lurking in the bushes on Morse south of Stillwater. I was probably speeding, but nothing happened. Later, while returning southbound the officer had pulled someone over NB. I don't ever recall seeing any officers patrolling on Morse in the eight years we've lived in TV.

[Dawn14564]

I agree with Bill. (side note -I am also from Victor)
I know many police officers and road patrol is not why they went into their field.
While I don't believe we need 800 police on traffic ticket duty, I am all for police available to address crime. We left upstate NY after 59 years due to the crime and politics.

My review of the news is that the police are out addressing many crimes even petty crimes involving drunks, domestics or brawls. The tough stance on these issues is what helps to prevent criminals from escalating to more serious crime. The courts and prosecutors also deserve credit for following through and supporting the police. The tough on crime approach in TV is one of the many reasons TV is fabulous. Spend a week in NY, and you will likely be thankful for TV. It is all relative.

I am sorry to hear you have to travel outside of the bubble. I do hope you stay safe.

[cthherod@gmail.com]

I frequently drive I-75 to Tampa. I see the police in the median and patroling. They usually have people pulled over. They are normally near the Webster exit and several exits between 470 and Wesley Chapel. I’m usually traveling between 9 am and 6 pm.

[Nana2Teddy]

Our experience is vastly different than yours. We frequently travel from 44 up 301 to the 466 area, and beyond. I honestly think that we see at least 1 police car every trip- we often see as many as 3-4. These are Wildwood, Sumter Sheriffs, and occasionally State Police. We don't travel the larger highways so I have no idea about those.
Us too since we live in DeLuna, which has a 301 gate. We see lots of police presence along 301 traveling north, and have even seen a few hidden along the main road (Marsh Bend Trail) through our village watching for speeders. We are very satisfied with the amount of police presence we see here regularly.

[Bilyclub]

We need more musicians.


https://youtu.be/ZkaNisbzsLY?si=U2cK6mJcz6QsY3Ex

[Bilyclub]

FYI, Defund never meant get rid of, it was a stupid choice of words to describe what they wanted, which was to reallocate some funds to hire mental health and social workers to relieve the police departments and free them to fight crime.

And who is going to go hands on with a wacko or a domestic abuse offender.” ? BLM literally wants to get rid of the Police.

[jimjamuser]

The original poster was talking about the Daily Sun article about the very high death rate of pedestrians in Florida. Over 800 pedestrians have been killed this past year. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the Governors Highway Safety Association show a state by state comparison of all 50 states. They show that in 2023 Florida ranked #2 out of all 50 states in pedestrian deaths per 100,000 people. (Only New Mexico was higher) In 2022 Florida was the #4 worst state for pedestrian deaths. (Only New Mexico, Arizona, and Louisiana were higher in 2022) Florida is getting more dangerous every year for pedestrians. The Daily Sun article is right on target. Besides more policing, the state needs to look at ways to make roads safer for people to cross.
It only makes sense that Florida would have high pedestrian deaths, because of all the older people driving and even walking. Older people driving have slower reflexes and worse vision than younger people. They probably get distracted easier than younger people.
.........There are 2 situations that I find strange. One is about older drivers. Speeding ? Why are so many older drivers in such a hurry. They SHOULD have more time available now that they are not working, so they SHOULD be taking their time and NOT pushing over the speed limits. Maybe during Covid the roads were less crowded and drivers got used to having the roads to themselves and they raised their speed.
............The 2nd situation involves clothing COLORS. For some reason unknown to myself, BLACK clothing has become popular and STAYED popular for many years. I see both young and old people riding BLACK bicycles while wearing all BLACK clothing. Older drivers have trouble seeing those dark bicycle riders at night or even in the shadows during the day. The same thing goes for pedestrians wearing dark colors. Anytime I am riding a bike I make sure that I have a bright yellow shirt or jacket on.

[Topspinmo]

No. There are not that many homeless junkies.


Maybe not in your neck of the woods. Orlando and other big cities full of them. IMO junkies would include alcoholic’s, same dependent on fix as any cost.

[graciegirl]

Maybe not in your neck of the woods. Orlando and other big cities full of them. IMO junkies would include alcoholic’s, same dependent on fix as any cost.

You are so right as usual. A person very active in the medical community here once shared with me that he finds himself frequently saddened and sometimes frustrated with an awful lot of overdrinking in The Villages. There is nothing more annoying than a reformed anything but mark me down as a reformed overdrinker. No matter how much I drank, I was never any good at it. We are so quick to criticize the good guys sometimes and no, I know they all aren't perfect, but it is a tough job and no amount of money can compensate the police for the risks they take on our behalf. I am, as I have said many times, very appreciative and grateful. It makes me SO annoyed, when I am driving a cart on the cartpath and trying to stay BACK from folks on a bicycle, only to be passed by either a newby, a renter or a snowbird, who will zoom up and tailgate them through the narrow places. I do say a few words under my breath.........Helene is usually sitting right next to me. I will look at her and she will look at me and we are just grateful to have a cart, a cartpath, and lovely places to go.

[Pugchief]

To me, that is just good social evolution. I liked the idea of speed sensors and cameras on traffic lights. Drones with cameras that could catch speeders and drunk drivers would be great with me.

Sorry, the last thing we need is more Big Brother intrusion into our lives.

Not saying traffic issues are not a problem, but the police should spend most of their time on actual criminals.

[justjim]

I frequently drive I-75 to Tampa. I see the police in the median and patroling. They usually have people pulled over. They are normally near the Webster exit and several exits between 470 and Wesley Chapel. I’m usually traveling between 9 am and 6 pm.

I have noticed “the police” are usually County Deputies. It is rare to see a Florida State Trooper. If you travel through Georgia it won’t be long before you see radar and County Deputies pulling cars over and tickets being written. Every time you are on I75 in Georgia and you travel into a different county WATCH OUT! Of course, the real speedsters don’t slow down and will take the risk anyways. Be careful what you wish for. I’m not sure you want to turn Florida into another Georgia.

[jimjamuser]

I agree with Bill. (side note -I am also from Victor)
I know many police officers and road patrol is not why they went into their field.
While I don't believe we need 800 police on traffic ticket duty, I am all for police available to address crime. We left upstate NY after 59 years due to the crime and politics.

My review of the news is that the police are out addressing many crimes even petty crimes involving drunks, domestics or brawls. The tough stance on these issues is what helps to prevent criminals from escalating to more serious crime. The courts and prosecutors also deserve credit for following through and supporting the police. The tough on crime approach in TV is one of the many reasons TV is fabulous. Spend a week in NY, and you will likely be thankful for TV. It is all relative.

I am sorry to hear you have to travel outside of the bubble. I do hope you stay safe.
I think that there are PLENTY of crimes in The Villages. The media just avoids reporting them. I had my house broken into and about $5,000 worth of tools stolen. That was about 5 years ago. I am sure that there are parts of NY or any other state where there is MUCH GREATER crime than in The Villages. An older upscale population like in The Villages is LESS likely to go around robbing and murdering EACH OTHER. However the younger workers on the crews of construction and lawn maintenance would likely to be tempted when they see a home where the residents are absent on a cruise or other travel.
............Also the gates at The Villages are providing almost ZERO security. Like a lot of things in The Villages, they are just for SHOW.
............Where I live, every day I see both full sized vehicles and golf carts going by my house at 40 MPH where the speed limit is marked at 20 MPH. Daily I see both golf carts and larger vehicles barely slowing down for stop signs. So, I can say for a fact that there is NOT enough Police presence and ticketing going on to prevent wholesale speeding around my neighborhood. So, I would draw the conclusion that since the police are NOT preventing speeding and going through stop signs, that they are INCAPABLE of preventing more serious crime.
..........Also there is a known excess of DRUNKEN DRIVING here in The Villages.

[jimjamuser]

Sorry, the last thing we need is more Big Brother intrusion into our lives.

Not saying traffic issues are not a problem, but the police should spend most of their time on actual criminals.
In an elite community like this the Police should be able to stop "actual" criminals AND the small time criminal driving misdemeanors. And the drunken driving.

[jimjamuser]

I have noticed “the police” are usually County Deputies. It is rare to see a Florida State Trooper. If you travel through Georgia it won’t be long before you see radar and County Deputies pulling cars over and tickets being written. Every time you are on I75 in Georgia and you travel into a different county WATCH OUT! Of course, the real speedsters don’t slow down and will take the risk anyways. Be careful what you wish for. I’m not sure you want to turn Florida into another Georgia.
I would PREFER to live in the SAFER state. Which one is better say based on traffic fatalities per 100,000 miles.

[jimjamuser]

I have noticed “the police” are usually County Deputies. It is rare to see a Florida State Trooper. If you travel through Georgia it won’t be long before you see radar and County Deputies pulling cars over and tickets being written. Every time you are on I75 in Georgia and you travel into a different county WATCH OUT! Of course, the real speedsters don’t slow down and will take the risk anyways. Be careful what you wish for. I’m not sure you want to turn Florida into another Georgia.
The death per 100,000 people in Florida is 16. Georgia is about the same at 16.5, NY is 6, Pa is 9, Ohio is 11, Oklahoma is 18, Wyoming is 23

[Normal]

We would have more police in Wildwood, but our city commissioners thought we needed to spend 6.6 million for a parking garage with 126 spaces. I mean which is more important: the 50,000 dollar per slot parking garage or public safety?

[ElDiabloJoe]

In an elite community like this the Police should be able to stop "actual" criminals AND the small time criminal driving misdemeanors. And the drunken driving.Ohhh, sure. And in their spare time they'll cure cancer and eliminate the deficit.

Do you actually know how criminal justice works or is this like your third-hand experience with golf carts - you learned what you think you know from television?

[justjim]

I would PREFER to live in the SAFER state. Which one is better say based on traffic fatalities per 100,000 miles.

Population of Florida is 21+Million vs Georgia 10+Million. (Google) Florida has many more tourists and many of them are trying to find their way around.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

But speed is only one cause of accidents. What the OP was writing about is the pedestrians that get killed. The lady who was killed in LSL was at wrong time/wrong place accident.

What really is disturbing is all the people who drive past school buses when the STOP sign is out. That should be criminal.

You could put governors on all cars but that would do anything for that woman or children getting to school/home safely.

What we need to do is make it so that phones don’t work when the cars are moving.

Many people have their phones connected to the audio of their cars. That way they can tell their wife that they're TRYING to get to the hospital to watch the birth of their child, but they're stuck in traffic. Or they can tell their child that they're on their way to pick them up at school but are stuck in traffic, and to just stay put. Or they can tell their spouse that yes - they'll stop at the store on the way home and pick up a quart of milk. Or tell the doctor that no, you didn't remember you had an appointment 10 minutes ago but you're turning around and will be there in 5.

There's also the matter of GPS programs that are apps on your cell phone. No phone = no GPS.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

FYI, Defund never meant get rid of, it was a stupid choice of words to describe what they wanted, which was to reallocate some funds to hire mental health and social workers to relieve the police departments and free them to fight crime.

Of course all that was explained, in detail when the issue first came up a bunch of years ago. But some people don't WANT it to mean that. They WANT it to mean what they've assigned it to mean, so that they can raise their fists in righteous indignation about "those people."

Meanwhile, back on topic:

I see posters here being all fist-raisey and righteously indignant, going on the hyperbolic defense of "oh sure, let's just have a cop on every corner, put them in your house to make sure you're not doing anything wrong, turn this into a nanny state and big brother" yada yada yada.

There's a difference between "the police in this area are not visible enough, another dozen shifts added to the tri-county area would be helpful" and "put a nanny-cam in your bathroom."

Maybe if we could accept those differences and approach the problem pragmatically instead of emotionally, this community (in general) could come up with solutions.

[MollyJo]

Careful what you wish for. I would envision someday when electronic monitoring of driving maybe mandatory for vehicle insurance instead of more police for traffic. It’s already happening on a voluntary level. We monitor fleet drivers, speed, harsh braking, time over speed, etc.
I’m a grocery delivery driver & our trucks can’t exceed 65 mph. Big brother is on the windshield, points are given for the following (63 =fired)

1) Following Distance
(Need a semi length between vehicles on highway)
2) Distracted Driving (looking anywhere else than driving, no eating, no drinking, cell=fired)
3) Cornering-turning corner using 1 hand
Just suppose consumer insurance required this or pay 4x premium
I just let the Indy 500 drivers fly past me so I can go on with my business…

[JMintzer]

............The 2nd situation involves clothing COLORS. For some reason unknown to myself, BLACK clothing has become popular and STAYED popular for many years. I see both young and old people riding BLACK bicycles while wearing all BLACK clothing. Older drivers have trouble seeing those dark bicycle riders at night or even in the shadows during the day. The same thing goes for pedestrians wearing dark colors. Anytime I am riding a bike I make sure that I have a bright yellow shirt or jacket on.

FINALLY, something that makes sense...

I see people OF ALL AGES walking at night in dark clothing with ZERO reflector tape, reflector sneakers, or a reflective vest...

[scubawva]

The Daily Sun has recently published a series of major articles about how unsafe Forida's roadways are. Over 800 pedestrian deaths were determined last year to be the result of dangerous drivers.
We have to travel periodically to Tampa, and have been doing this for over five years. Yesterday was only the second time we had seen a police car on the roadway. He was parked between the roadways, as cars sped by.
We've never seen one patrolling any of the roads surrounding The Villages or in the The Villages. They're certainly needed here.
Want to stop bad drivers? Get the police on the roadways doing their job.

How much more taxes are you willing to pay for more PD?
More PD on the roads wont stop bad drivers.

I’ve seen plenty in TV and outside. Just bc you haven’t doesn’t mean they’re not working.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

It only makes sense that Florida would have high pedestrian deaths, because of all the older people driving and even walking. Older people driving have slower reflexes and worse vision than younger people. They probably get distracted easier than younger people.
.........There are 2 situations that I find strange. One is about older drivers. Speeding ? Why are so many older drivers in such a hurry. They SHOULD have more time available now that they are not working, so they SHOULD be taking their time and NOT pushing over the speed limits. Maybe during Covid the roads were less crowded and drivers got used to having the roads to themselves and they raised their speed.
............The 2nd situation involves clothing COLORS. For some reason unknown to myself, BLACK clothing has become popular and STAYED popular for many years. I see both young and old people riding BLACK bicycles while wearing all BLACK clothing. Older drivers have trouble seeing those dark bicycle riders at night or even in the shadows during the day. The same thing goes for pedestrians wearing dark colors. Anytime I am riding a bike I make sure that I have a bright yellow shirt or jacket on.

I wear a reflector vest and a helmet that has reflection stripes on it, when I ride my bicycle. I also just recently added some blinking lights to the front and back. I'm not sure it's the best idea because it could distract a driver who ends up not noticing something else they should be paying attention to. But I'll give it a try and see how it goes. The reflector vest is something I've been using down here almost since I moved in.

Up north, I usually didn't even wear a helmet. We didn't have many bicycle accidents there though, and if I wanted to go down the main road (Route 5), I'd just ride through strip-mall parking lots instead of on the road itself. Having a hybrid bicycle is great - shock absorbers on front and back fork means I can ride on the grass and down curbs without breaking my pelvis.

[Topspinmo]

You are so right as usual. A person very active in the medical community here once shared with me that he finds himself frequently saddened and sometimes frustrated with an awful lot of overdrinking in The Villages. There is nothing more annoying than a reformed anything but mark me down as a reformed overdrinker. No matter how much I drank, I was never any good at it. We are so quick to criticize the good guys sometimes and no, I know they all aren't perfect, but it is a tough job and no amount of money can compensate the police for the risks they take on our behalf. I am, as I have said many times, very appreciative and grateful. It makes me SO annoyed, when I am driving a cart on the cartpath and trying to stay BACK from folks on a bicycle, only to be passed by either a newby, a renter or a snowbird, who will zoom up and tailgate them through the narrow places. I do say a few words under my breath.........Helene is usually sitting right next to me. I will look at her and she will look at me and we are just grateful to have a cart, a cartpath, and lovely places to go.

I hardly ever drink. Sometime when just out of high school to fit in. 45 years hardly even had drop in till Covid. Couple shots night to help me sleep. Covid has passed and so has my teetotaling. Back to my boring self. I agree LEOs has to put up with drunks and druggies everyday not to mention harden criminals. A thankless job. Two jobs I was never interested in law enforcement and nursing homes. Two jobs of unrecognized hero’s if they don’t get the attitude or mean?

[Topspinmo]

I have noticed “the police” are usually County Deputies. It is rare to see a Florida State Trooper. If you travel through Georgia it won’t be long before you see radar and County Deputies pulling cars over and tickets being written. Every time you are on I75 in Georgia and you travel into a different county WATCH OUT! Of course, the real speedsters don’t slow down and will take the risk anyways. Be careful what you wish for. I’m not sure you want to turn Florida into another Georgia.

When I go up I75 at 75 MPH i getting ran over sometimes even in far right lane. I agree going through Georgia I make sure I don’t go over 75 and slow get over when vehicles flashers are on shoulder.

[kkingston57]

I don’t seem able to find data that shows Florida “is way down the list for traffic fatalities.” All the data I see shows Florida to be in the top 10-20% of all states for fatalities per 100,000 residents or per million miles driven.

And Florida has one of the highest(if not the highest) % of elderly people, there are going to be more deaths involved in motor vehicle accidents due to their underlying physical/old age problems

[shaw8700@outlook.com]

Good idea, stop the GPS map program from working when it is needed the most.
Let's also stop mobile phones from working while people walk...to prevent distractioned walkers.

Every car has built-in GPS so you don’t need a cellphone.

[shaw8700@outlook.com]

Many people have their phones connected to the audio of their cars. That way they can tell their wife that they're TRYING to get to the hospital to watch the birth of their child, but they're stuck in traffic. Or they can tell their child that they're on their way to pick them up at school but are stuck in traffic, and to just stay put. Or they can tell their spouse that yes - they'll stop at the store on the way home and pick up a quart of milk. Or tell the doctor that no, you didn't remember you had an appointment 10 minutes ago but you're turning around and will be there in 5.

There's also the matter of GPS programs that are apps on your cell phone. No phone = no GPS.
They would have to pull over and put the car in PARK, and then the cell phone works. Easy peasy.

[JMintzer]

Every car has built-in GPS so you don’t need a cellphone.

Every car? Not hardly...

[Normal]

Oh I feel so defensive for the police. Overworked and underpaid and certainly underappreciated. They probably have been called out for a shooting...there is a new one every day and usually you can predict it will be a young man who has shot another young man....but they still are called for things like that..........not to mention the folks who get all liquored up or drugged up and beat up on each other...they ring for the law. Then of course there are the folks stealing things that others have worked hard for....they would be danged annoyed if a nice patrolman didn't show up to see what and who done it. I am a bit prejudiced....I am very old and was raised by an officer of the law who had more times then to give out speeding tickets. I will always defend our ladies and gentleman who protect and serve us. Sorry......I understand that your fears are justified but it is more the situation the world is in rather than someone NOT doing their job. I don't know anymore what is wrong with so many people.

It’s human nature and the world we live in.. Most of us want better law enforcement. I’ve lived in the place where law enforcement was great all the time and was over staffed; it was a US military installation. The real problems are the understaffing in the public sector. It fuels the pace police must operate at and response quality does suffer.

That in turn fuels the sceptic views of many citizens when they encounter law enforcement.

[Jim1mack]

In all my years of living and driving in Florida I never have seen a pedestrian crossing I-75, 95, 91(the toll road), 44, 27/441, 301, 466, 466A, Morse, Buena Vista, etc, etc. where do I have to drive to see pedestrians with a death wish?

[Bill14564]

In all my years of living and driving in Florida I never have seen a pedestrian crossing I-75, 95, 91(the toll road), 44, 27/441, 301, 466, 466A, Morse, Buena Vista, etc, etc. where do I have to drive to see pedestrians with a death wish?

Aside from the limited access highways, most or all of those roads have marked crosswalks for pedestrians. That is where you would drive to if you wanted to see a pedestrian cross one of those roads.

I may cross 466A at Culver's one of these days. Crossing 44 at either 301 or Publix is not out of the questions either.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

You are already electronically monitored, by the communication system in your car. That button you can press for emergency help gives the manufactrer a window into how much you drive, when, by what routes, and how and when you complete maintenance. They sell this data to insurance companies or anyone else who wants to pay.

What button? What communication system? I have neither of these things on my car.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Sorry, the last thing we need is more Big Brother intrusion into our lives.

Not saying traffic issues are not a problem, but the police should spend most of their time on actual criminals.

I can't be sure but I seem to recall that driving 60 in a posted 25mph zone, cutting off traffic to take a left from the right lane of a 4-lane road, running a stop-light, hitting a bicyclist with your fender, and weaving in and out of your lane because you're drunk - are all crimes. That would make the people performing these behaviors - criminals.

Please do correct me if I'm mistaken.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

In all my years of living and driving in Florida I never have seen a pedestrian crossing I-75, 95, 91(the toll road), 44, 27/441, 301, 466, 466A, Morse, Buena Vista, etc, etc. where do I have to drive to see pedestrians with a death wish?

Pedestrians cross 27/441 pretty often. There are even "walk" signal poles just for the purpose.

[Bill14564]

I can't be sure but I seem to recall that driving 60 in a posted 25mph zone, cutting off traffic to take a left from the right lane of a 4-lane road, running a stop-light, hitting a bicyclist with your fender, and weaving in and out of your lane because you're drunk - are all crimes. That would make the people performing these behaviors - criminals.

Please do correct me if I'm mistaken.

These lawyers can help:

One (https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/traffic-violations-differ-crimes.html)
Two (https://www.orentcriminallaw.com/blog/criminal-traffic-violation-vs-traffic-infraction/)
Three (https://legal-info.lawyers.com/criminal/traffic-violations/traffic-offense-classifications-infractions-misdemeanors-and-felonies.html)
Four (https://www.baezlawfirm.com/are-traffic-violations-a-criminal-offense-in-florida/)

This area seems to have quite the problem with child porn, drugs, assaults, and theft. I'm very much okay with the police giving those issues priority.

[Topspinmo]

I would gladly pay more taxes for better Policing. My house was robbed of about $5,000 in tools. I bet that I am NOT the only one that feels that way. I would rather pay for better roads and Policing rather than pay for all the flowers on the roads and intersections.

pay enough taxes anyway, giving more money never hardly ever solves problem. If so USA would have smartest public school students in world.

[Jensor17]

My family were police in Baltimore County there was Traffic division routine patrol in every community k-9 for searches. Tactical for hostage situations. And all of them worked together on robberies assaults murders rape manslaughter arson burglaries. HERE,POLICE DON’t EVEN PATROL neighborhoods. Nor write a report when there’s Community B&E’’S (BREAK-INS)

[Pugchief]

This area seems to have quite the problem with child porn, drugs, assaults, and theft. I'm very much okay with the police giving those issues priority.

Likewise.

[shaw8700@outlook.com]

Every car? Not hardly...

Okay, most every car.

[golfing eagles]

Self driving cars that the AI controls cannot exceed speed limits. AI will also pull to a controlled stop and lock the doors when instructed to do so by LE.
My insurance already monitors my driving. Apparently, I'm a good boy or girl. Are youuu? 🫠

EVERYBODY'S a good boy or girl in the world you describe. Big Brother makes sure of it.

[golfing eagles]

I can't be sure but I seem to recall that driving 60 in a posted 25mph zone, cutting off traffic to take a left from the right lane of a 4-lane road, running a stop-light, hitting a bicyclist with your fender, and weaving in and out of your lane because you're drunk - are all crimes. That would make the people performing these behaviors - criminals.

Please do correct me if I'm mistaken.

You are technically and semantically correct. Now, would you like to discuss how THE LAW classifies the severity of "crimes", or does anyone think murder is the same as driving a golf cart at 20.1 mph??? You cannot just lump all "crimes" together and label the perpetrators as "criminals" with all the connotations that entails.

Alternatively, just taking driving and parking alone, 99% of Villagers are "criminals".

[golfing eagles]

Of course all that was explained, in detail when the issue first came up a bunch of years ago. But some people don't WANT it to mean that. They WANT it to mean what they've assigned it to mean, so that they can raise their fists in righteous indignation about "those people."

Meanwhile, back on topic:

I see posters here being all fist-raisey and righteously indignant, going on the hyperbolic defense of "oh sure, let's just have a cop on every corner, put them in your house to make sure you're not doing anything wrong, turn this into a nanny state and big brother" yada yada yada.

There's a difference between "the police in this area are not visible enough, another dozen shifts added to the tri-county area would be helpful" and "put a nanny-cam in your bathroom."

Maybe if we could accept those differences and approach the problem pragmatically instead of emotionally, this community (in general) could come up with solutions.

It's hardly "yada, yada, yada". It isn't that big a step from one to the other. I suggest one reads "1984" and "The Handmaid's Tale"

[fdpaq0580]

EVERYBODY'S a good boy or girl in the world you describe. Big Brother makes sure of it.

Everybody except Big Brother. He and his pals can do as they please. They have immunity.

But seriously, wouldn't it be nicer if everyone got along together and treated all others with kindness and respect. Courtesy was automatic. People didn't take advantage of one another. Really lived their lives loving their fellow man. Not just pretending to while sitting in church for an hour or so, but 24/7/365. Sounds almost like Heaven.
But, we are, after all, merely clever apes with egos. Self entitled and self important until we die. And then??? 🙃🤔😶

[fdpaq0580]

You are technically and semantically correct. Now, would you like to discuss how THE LAW classifies the severity of "crimes", or does anyone think murder is the same as driving a golf cart at 20.1 mph??? You cannot just lump all "crimes" together and label the perpetrators as "criminals" with all the connotations that entails.

Alternatively, just taking driving and parking alone, 99% of Villagers are "criminals".

Yes, you can.
Anyone who commits a crime is a criminal.
Not all crimes are equal in severity.
Punishment varies by severity of the crime.
Re-offenders are often given harsher punishments.
As driving a golf cart 20.1mph is illegal, one is a criminal. When one catches one going 19.9 mph, the criminal has no right to expect, demand, request special consideration of any kind from law abiding individuals. Criminals deserve only disdain for their failure to be law abiding citizens.
Simple.

[golfing eagles]

Everybody except Big Brother. He and his pals can do as they please. They have immunity.

But seriously, wouldn't it be nicer if everyone got along together and treated all others with kindness and respect. Courtesy was automatic. People didn't take advantage of one another. Really lived their lives loving their fellow man. Not just pretending to while sitting in church for an hour or so, but 24/7/365. Sounds almost like Heaven.
But, we are, after all, merely clever apes with egos. Self entitled and self important until we die. And then??? 🙃🤔😶

Yes, you can.
Anyone who commits a crime is a criminal.
Not all crimes are equal in severity.
Punishment varies by severity of the crime.
Re-offenders are often given harsher punishments.
As driving a golf cart 20.1mph is illegal, one is a criminal. When one catches one going 19.9 mph, the criminal has no right to expect, demand, request special consideration of any kind from law abiding individuals. Criminals deserve only disdain for their failure to be law abiding citizens.
Simple.

Wouldn't all that be nice. And everybody has the same assets, lives in identical housing, drives the same (electric and AI driven) car, has 2.2 children, follows the same religion and loves their neighbor.

Of course, one of Blouir's original 5 criteria for schizophrenia is poor reality testing:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

These lawyers can help:

One (https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/traffic-violations-differ-crimes.html)
Two (https://www.orentcriminallaw.com/blog/criminal-traffic-violation-vs-traffic-infraction/)
Three (https://legal-info.lawyers.com/criminal/traffic-violations/traffic-offense-classifications-infractions-misdemeanors-and-felonies.html)
Four (https://www.baezlawfirm.com/are-traffic-violations-a-criminal-offense-in-florida/)

This area seems to have quite the problem with child porn, drugs, assaults, and theft. I'm very much okay with the police giving those issues priority.

It really doesn't have "quite the problem." You just need to stop reading the online rag that only posts about the worst of society, and writes those "reports" with an anti-Villages slant.

In a week, there might be 10 of those crimes COMBINED committed within three counties. A lot of these crimes are even combination - two for one crimes. People shoplifting who are also in possession of illegal drugs. That seems to be the most common situation. Most of the assaults I've seen over "there" in the past month have involved seniors living in the same house having a fight with each other. There are enough OTHER things for police to do, that they don't all have to focus on those 10 crimes that week.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

You are technically and semantically correct. Now, would you like to discuss how THE LAW classifies the severity of "crimes", or does anyone think murder is the same as driving a golf cart at 20.1 mph??? You cannot just lump all "crimes" together and label the perpetrators as "criminals" with all the connotations that entails.

Alternatively, just taking driving and parking alone, 99% of Villagers are "criminals".

Murder isn't happening here in this community every day. Speeders are. It's MUCH more likely (and profitable to the state) that a police officer would catch someone in the act of a traffic violation, than it is that they'd catch someone committing a murderer - in any given week. They don't have jurisdiction on the MMPs but they do on the roads that run throughout The Villages. And it's not just speeding golf carts. It's cars that run stop signs, not even with the pretense of slowing down. It's pedestrians that walk right into the street without looking both ways FIRST and then getting angry when a car almost runs them over because the car was ALREADY there in motion.

It's people on e-bikes that ride AGAINST traffic at speeds up to and sometimes even exceeding 30mph.

It's golf cart drivers who are on their phone on Del Mar, with their 10-year-old grandkid on their lap in the driver's seat, not paying any attention to the fact that Junior is about to steer over the curb and flip the whole cart over (I witnessed that - the woman in the passenger seat had to yell at them both to avoid what might've resulted in the death of their grandchild).

Golf cart drivers going over 19.8mph is not the problem. The sense of entitlement among people who do it - the attitude that the rules apply to thee, not me, is the problem. And as long as the rules are not enforced, it'll just get worse.

[fdpaq0580]

Wouldn't all that be nice. And everybody has the same assets, lives in identical housing, drives the same (electric and AI driven) car, has 2.2 children, follows the same religion and loves their neighbor.

Of course, one of Blouir's original 5 criteria for schizophrenia is poor reality testing:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Blouir? Thinks he is so smart!
Anyway, I never claimed to be perfect. Just another nutty shaved ape that has a propensity for pulling chains from time to time.
And I don't believe we have to be clones in order to respect and appreciate our differences. For example, I'm having a couple of chili dogs and a beer for lunch. I don't know what you are having, but I hope you enjoy it, even if it's liver and onions with lima beans

[Pugchief]

Alternatively, just taking driving and parking alone, 99% of Villagers are "criminals".

"Remember, the left lane is for crime."
-Phil Labonte

[Pugchief]

Yes, you can.
Anyone who commits a crime is a criminal.

As driving a golf cart 20.1mph is illegal, one is a criminal.

Simple.

Simple nonsense. If you get a speeding ticket for going 5mph over the limit, do you have a criminal record? Requiring disclosure on a job application*?

*Yes, I am aware in many jurisdictions it is illegal to ask about prior criminality. Example to make a point.

[Pugchief]

Golf cart drivers going over 19.8mph is not the problem. The sense of entitlement among people who do it - the attitude that the rules apply to thee, not me, is the problem. And as long as the rules are not enforced, it'll just get worse.

Jerks are going to be rude. That's what makes them jerks. You can be going 20.1 and be respectful or going 15 and be dangerous and rude.

[Bill14564]

It really doesn't have "quite the problem." You just need to stop reading the online rag that only posts about the worst of society, and writes those "reports" with an anti-Villages slant.

In a week, there might be 10 of those crimes COMBINED committed within three counties. A lot of these crimes are even combination - two for one crimes. People shoplifting who are also in possession of illegal drugs. That seems to be the most common situation. Most of the assaults I've seen over "there" in the past month have involved seniors living in the same house having a fight with each other. There are enough OTHER things for police to do, that they don't all have to focus on those 10 crimes that week.

Instead of simply repeating old criticisms, you might want to take a look at that online rag every once in a while. Their reporting is based on police reports which largely involve non-Villagers, comments and actions from the various CDD meetings (both positive and negative), and POA information (rarely positive). The only anti-Villager slant I see comes from the POA contributions and the letters to the editor which are also largely Villagers.

If we Villagers didn’t complain so much the all that online rag would have to report is the police activity.

If the police activity being reported is dealing with the worst of society, are those the same officers you would like to refocus on more important matters such as those traveling 60mph in a 25mph zone? (BTW: where is this 25mph zone? I can’t think of any but I would like to see the 60mph traffic there).

I’ll repeat that I’m okay with the police focusing on what they currently are.

[golfing eagles]

Simple nonsense. If you get a speeding ticket for going 5mph over the limit, do you have a criminal record? Requiring disclosure on a job application*?

*Yes, I am aware in many jurisdictions it is illegal to ask about prior criminality. Example to make a point.

You know what would make a great project: Do 24/7 surveillance on the "holier than thou every traffic violation is a criminal offense" crowd and see how often THEY go 20.1 or faster in a golf cart, go 30.1 or faster in a 30 zone, don't come to a complete and total stop at a stop sign, fail to cross at a crosswalk or intersection or fail to yield the right of way when required to BY THE LAW THAT WOULD THEN LABEL THEM CRIMINALS

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Instead of simply repeating old criticisms, you might want to take a look at that online rag every once in a while. Their reporting is based on police reports which largely involve non-Villagers, comments and actions from the various CDD meetings (both positive and negative), and POA information (rarely positive). The only anti-Villager slant I see comes from the POA contributions and the letters to the editor which are also largely Villagers.

If we Villagers didn’t complain so much the all that online rag would have to report is the police activity.

If the police activity being reported is dealing with the worst of society, are those the same officers you would like to refocus on more important matters such as those traveling 60mph in a 25mph zone? (BTW: where is this 25mph zone? I can’t think of any but I would like to see the 60mph traffic there).

I’ll repeat that I’m okay with the police focusing on what they currently are.

Other than the 15mph signs between the softball field and Wales Place, the Historic Section's posted speed limit is 25mph.

If there are 25 police officers on duty within the three-county area between 8am and 4pm on a random Tuesday, and only 4 "really bad crimes" being committed on that day in that 3-county area, then it's safe to assume that at least 5 of those police officers could be spending their time pulling people over for speeding and other traffic violations. The other 20 can handle those 4 "really bad crimes" just fine.

[golfing eagles]

Other than the 15mph signs between the softball field and Wales Place, the Historic Section's posted speed limit is 25mph.

If there are 25 police officers on duty within the three-county area between 8am and 4pm on a random Tuesday, and only 4 "really bad crimes" being committed on that day in that 3-county area, then it's safe to assume that at least 5 of those police officers could be spending their time pulling people over for speeding and other traffic violations. The other 20 can handle those 4 "really bad crimes" just fine.

Or alternatively, the presence of those "extra" 5 officers might be preventing "really bad crimes" rather than looking for minor traffic violations

[Happydaz]

You know what would make a great project: Do 24/7 surveillance on the "holier than thou every traffic violation is a criminal offense" crowd and see how often THEY go 20.1 or faster in a golf cart, go 30.1 or faster in a 30 zone, don't come to a complete and total stop at a stop sign, fail to cross at a crosswalk or intersection or fail to yield the right of way when required to BY THE LAW THAT WOULD THEN LABEL THEM CRIMINALS

I agree with you. Most of the “it’s the rule” people I have known will break the rules themselves when they see it to be in their interest and don’t like anyone pointing it out. They try to be sneaky about it and will not admit they broke one of the rules. We all know people like that.

[fdpaq0580]

I agree with you. Most of the “it’s the rule” people I have known will break the rules themselves when they see it to be in their interest and don’t like anyone pointing it out. They try to be sneaky about it and will not admit they broke one of the rules. We all know people like that.

Yes. Aren't people wonderful?

Well, maybe we are, sometimes.

[FloridaGuy66]

Every car has built-in GPS so you don’t need a cellphone.

My 2020 car GPS pretends that the Villages doesn't exist on maps south of Brownwood. No update is available or likely will be ever available.

A cellphone is still needed for a variety of cases.

[Normal]

The Villages is a very unique animal for law enforcement services. If you live in the unincorporated section (which many or most do), you only have the county sheriff’s or state troopers at your disposal. If you live in Lady Lake, Fruitland Park, Wildwood or Leesburg, you have supposedly augmented law enforcement support.

What really seems to be going on for the most part (not always) is the county dispatches for any unincorporated calls, and local law enforcement only responds to the areas in their jurisdiction.

The great disparity is those who are in Wildwood or another municipality end up paying for the total law enforcement for the unincorporated while still paying for their own police departments as well.

Unincorporated villigaers get out of paying for local enforcement and are prioritized for sheriff respoce all the while municipal residents pay for both. What is even more disturbing is the county department has to be manned at such a level for being the only responder which isn’t typical in most areas of the country. Rural here, is village upon village with several thousand residents so yes, more than usual are needed for the “unincorporated “.

[golfing eagles]

The Villages is a very unique animal for law enforcement services. If you live in the unincorporated section (which many or most do), you only have the county sheriff’s or state troopers at your disposal. If you live in Lady Lake, Fruitland Park, Wildwood or Leesburg, you have supposedly augmented law enforcement support.

What really seems to be going on for the most part (not always) is the county dispatches for any unincorporated calls, and local law enforcement only responds to the areas in their jurisdiction.

The great disparity is those who are in Wildwood or another municipality end up paying for the total law enforcement for the unincorporated while still paying for their own police departments as well.

Unincorporated villigaers get out of paying for local enforcement and are prioritized for sheriff respoce all the while municipal residents pay for both. What is even more disturbing is the county department has to be manned at such a level for being the only responder which isn’t typical in most areas of the country. Rural here, is village upon village with several thousand residents so yes, more than usual are needed for the “unincorporated “.

IF that is the case, I wonder how residents of the municipalities would feel about paying extra police to catch golf carts going 20.1 mph in the unincorporated areas, as suggested by some????? After all, all those people are "criminals"

[Normal]

IF that is the case, I wonder how residents of the municipalities would feel about paying extra police to catch golf carts going 20.1 mph in the unincorporated areas, as suggested by some????? After all, all those people are "criminals"

It isn’t an if. Many think ticket proceeds go to the issuing authority, nothing could be further from the truth. There would be no windfalls of income from issuing tickets. 2 dollars for each ticket written go to the issuing authority in Florida. So the end game would offer little funds to pay for more police to catch bad golf cart drivers.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

It isn’t an if. Many think ticket proceeds go to the issuing authority, nothing could be further from the truth. There would be no windfalls of income from issuing tickets. 2 dollars for each ticket written go to the issuing authority in Florida. So the end game would offer little funds to pay for more police to catch bad golf cart drivers.

The end game:

Fewer collisions.
Fewer injuries.
Fewer deaths.
More people who drive under the influence removed from the streets.
Fewer car/health insurance claims.
Lower insurance premiums due to fewer claims.
Fewer parents who lose their children.
Fewer children who lose their parents.
More children growing up in an area where it's actually safe to walk on the road.

The purpose of the police department isn't to make money for a municipality. Contrary to unpopular belief, governments aren't supposed to profit. They're supposed to spend. Being a wealthy community means nothing if you're afraid to leave your house because there's chaos in the streets.

We don't have chaos in the streets here, but we definitely have a LOT more traffic accidents than I've ever experienced elsewhere. And I lived in Boston for 7 years, so I understand "traffic" just fine. Boston also has a robust Police Department including an entire traffic control division.

The Villages has grown into an enormous, densely-populated city, but the police departments assigned to its care have no grown to reflect the increase. Citizens demand that their taxes not go up, and every penny they have to pay is another fight against services that exist to keep them safe and alive.

We don't need to be tax-and-spend like Boston is - we're not that kind of city and we don't need the same kinds of services. But we do need a more "present and visible" police department.

And again if that means simply adding 12 more shifts in a week - which would be the equivalent of maybe 6 more officers to cover the traffic control of our three-county community - it'd be a huge start and make a significant impact.

[Bill14564]

...

And again if that means simply adding 12 more shifts in a week - which would be the equivalent of maybe 6 more officers to cover the traffic control of our three-county community - it'd be a huge start and make a significant impact.

Interested in what "12 more shifts in a week" means and how "6 more officers" would cover that. I see six more officers covering six more patrols for five days out of the week.

[golfing eagles]

The end game:

Fewer collisions.
Fewer injuries.
Fewer deaths.
More people who drive under the influence removed from the streets.
Fewer car/health insurance claims.
Lower insurance premiums due to fewer claims.
Fewer parents who lose their children.
Fewer children who lose their parents.
More children growing up in an area where it's actually safe to walk on the road.


Yes, because we all "know" that all those bad things are caused by a golf cart going 20.1 as opposed to 20.0. Likewise, the "obvious" cause is cars going 35.1 in a 35 zone. Unbelievable.

The "obvious" cause is bad drivers, many of whom should have surrendered their license a long time ago. As far as speed goes, both law enforcement and insurance sites state slow drivers cause more accidents that "speeders". And as far as speeders go, I have no problem with a NASCAR champion driving whatever speed he sees fit, whereas there are "drivers" in The Villages that can't handle a car or golf cart 10 or 15 mph under the limit. I suppose they are both "criminals"

[fdpaq0580]

Yes, because we all "know" that all those bad things are caused by a golf cart going 20.1 as opposed to 20.0. Likewise, the "obvious" cause is cars going 35.1 in a 35 zone. Unbelievable.

The "obvious" cause is bad drivers, many of whom should have surrendered their license a long time ago. As far as speed goes, both law enforcement and insurance sites state slow drivers cause more accidents that "speeders". And as far as speeders go, I have no problem with a NASCAR champion driving whatever speed he sees fit, whereas there are "drivers" in The Villages that can't handle a car or golf cart 10 or 15 mph under the limit. I suppose they are both "criminals"

NASCAR champ can drive whatever speed he sees fit on the race track with other pros that play by racetrack rules. NOT on the public roads with families, school busses, trucks, etc! To believe otherwise is foolish, unrealistic and dangerous in the extreme.
As far as your accident theory goes, low speed accidents are more likely "fender benders", while it's the high speed race car wannabes that will be involved in major damage and death. The old line, "speed kills", is still true. Always remember, not every driver is as highly trained and skilled as you, and on public roads they don't have to be.

[fdpaq0580]

The end game:

Fewer collisions.
Fewer injuries.
Fewer deaths.
More people who drive under the influence removed from the streets.
Fewer car/health insurance claims.
Lower insurance premiums due to fewer claims.
Fewer parents who lose their children.
Fewer children who lose their parents.
More children growing up in an area where it's actually safe to walk on the road.

The purpose of the police department isn't to make money for a municipality. Contrary to unpopular belief, governments aren't supposed to profit. They're supposed to spend. Being a wealthy community means nothing if you're afraid to leave your house because there's chaos in the streets.

We don't have chaos in the streets here, but we definitely have a LOT more traffic accidents than I've ever experienced elsewhere. And I lived in Boston for 7 years, so I understand "traffic" just fine. Boston also has a robust Police Department including an entire traffic control division.

The Villages has grown into an enormous, densely-populated city, but the police departments assigned to its care have no grown to reflect the increase. Citizens demand that their taxes not go up, and every penny they have to pay is another fight against services that exist to keep them safe and alive.

We don't need to be tax-and-spend like Boston is - we're not that kind of city and we don't need the same kinds of services. But we do need a more "present and visible" police department.

And again if that means simply adding 12 more shifts in a week - which would be the equivalent of maybe 6 more officers to cover the traffic control of our three-county community - it'd be a huge start and make a significant impact.

Well said.

[fdpaq0580]

IF that is the case, I wonder how residents of the municipalities would feel about paying extra police to catch golf carts going 20.1 mph in the unincorporated areas, as suggested by some????? After all, all those people are "criminals"

Yes, they are. Glad we agree. How about add the cops and a 3 strikes rule that confiscates both license and car. Since we know they can't be trusted, they loose the privilege of ever being behind the wheel (or handle bars).

[golfing eagles]

IF that is the case, I wonder how residents of the municipalities would feel about paying extra police to catch golf carts going 20.1 mph in the unincorporated areas, as suggested by some????? After all, all those people are "criminals"

Yes, they are. Glad we agree. How about add the cops and a 3 strikes rule that confiscates both license and car. Since we know they can't be trusted, they loose the privilege of ever being behind the wheel (or handle bars).

Yep----drive a golf cart 20.1 or your car 35.1 in a 35 zone and lose your license AND car. Is that what happened to Winston Smith???? I believe that was law enforcement in Oceania.

PS: Thank God the world isn't as some wish it would be.

PPS: Yesterday while I was driving, 37 cars made a left or right turn, only 11 used a turn signal. Are they "criminals" also??? Do they get 3 strikes and lose their license????

PPS: The 13 or 14 year who was driving 3 younger kids in a 4-seater coming off the MMP onto Heald should probably get life without parole???? Or summary execution????

[fdpaq0580]

Yep----drive a golf cart 20.1 or your car 35.1 in a 35 zone and lose your license AND car. Is that what happened to Winston Smith???? I believe that was law enforcement in Oceania.

PS: Thank God the world isn't as some wish it would be.

PPS: Yesterday while I was driving, 37 cars made a left or right turn, only 11 used a turn signal. Are they "criminals" also??? Do they get 3 strikes and lose their license????

PPS: The 13 or 14 year who was driving 3 younger kids in a 4-seater coming off the MMP onto Heald should probably get life without parole???? Or summary execution????

Lake Sumter Landing needs a guillotine for dealing out justice. The square would be packed with revelers, drinking, dancing, musicians and jugglers. All sorts of entertainment while we wait for the heads to roll. Youth B4 age. Just like in the good Olde days. 😃🤯🥳🤡👹👺

[Eg_cruz]

The Daily Sun has recently published a series of major articles about how unsafe Forida's roadways are. Over 800 pedestrian deaths were determined last year to be the result of dangerous drivers.
We have to travel periodically to Tampa, and have been doing this for over five years. Yesterday was only the second time we had seen a police car on the roadway. He was parked between the roadways, as cars sped by.
We've never seen one patrolling any of the roads surrounding The Villages or in the The Villages. They're certainly needed here.
Want to stop bad drivers? Get the police on the roadways doing their job.
There are quite a few officers up and down 441 between Lady Lake and Leesburg they are there all day every day
Between Lady Lake, Fruitland Park, Wildwood and Leesburg officers I see them all the time, what I don’t see is any of then patrolling The Villages

[Bill14564]

There are quite a few officers up and down 441 between Lady Lake and Leesburg they are there all day every day
Between Lady Lake, Fruitland Park, Wildwood and Leesburg officers I see them all the time, what I don’t see is any of then patrolling The Villages

- Are the number of people speeding excessively (>10mph) as high in the Villages as on 441? Is the Villages the best place to spend patrol time if you want to make arrests?

- Are the speeders in the Villages likely to cause as much harm and damage as those on 441? Wrecking at 35mph when you can't handle the roundabout is not going to be as serious as crashing into traffic at 65mph on 441.

- I have seen traffic stops on Buena Vista, Morse, and Hillsborough. Not as many as on 441 but this area does get patrolled occasionally.

[golfing eagles]

There are quite a few officers up and down 441 between Lady Lake and Leesburg they are there all day every day
Between Lady Lake, Fruitland Park, Wildwood and Leesburg officers I see them all the time, what I don’t see is any of then patrolling The Villages

- Are the number of people speeding excessively (>10mph) as high in the Villages as on 441? Is the Villages the best place to spend patrol time if you want to make arrests?

- Are the speeders in the Villages likely to cause as much harm and damage as those on 441? Wrecking at 35mph when you can't handle the roundabout is not going to be as serious as crashing into traffic at 65mph on 441.

- I have seen traffic stops on Buena Vista, Morse, and Hillsborough. Not as many as on 441 but this area does get patrolled occasionally.

But you forget, according to some on this thread, those Villagers driving 35.1 are CRIMINALS. Those driving golf carts at 20.1 are CRIMINALS. I suppose those who park over the line are CRIMINALS. The guillotine awaits.....

How about this for semantic nomenclature:

The term is not traffic crimes, it is traffic INFRACTIONS-----maybe we could designate those perpetrators as "infractors"

Likewise, the term is not parking crimes, but parking VIOLATIONS----we could call those people "violators", although that could have a much different connotation.:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[UpsideDown]

Most people who are driving in the villages shouldn’t - let’s be honest about what aging does to a person‘s driving skills.

I'm 91 and I get around fine. I only hit the curb by the gate card reader so my mirror access card can be read. I don't think I ever hit anything that matters.

[fdpaq0580]

[QUOTE=Bill14564;2395841]

But you forget, according to some on this thread, those Villagers driving 35.1 are CRIMINALS. Those driving golf carts at 20.1 are CRIMINALS. I suppose those who park over the line are CRIMINALS. The guillotine awaits.....

How about this for semantic nomenclature:

The term is not traffic crimes, it is traffic INFRACTIONS-----maybe we could designate those perpetrators as "infractors"

Likewise, the term is not parking crimes, but parking VIOLATIONS----we could call those people "violators", although that could have a much different connotation.:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Already in place. And, obsession with the .1 mph gives us chain pullers a guide to over reactors.
The point is that a line has to be drawn somewhere. The line for general public safety was decided upon. Traffic laws are not written for the "best" drivers and cars, but for the average person/vehicle on the road. This is so the most people have the opportunity to us the highways our dollars pay for. It is for societies benefit, not the few that think the are superior. Driving is a PRIVILEGE, not your right. And no one has the right or privilege of breaking those laws. Not even a little. Like being a little bit pregnant. You either are, or you're not. No, .1 mph over is still over. If you are going err, err on the side of caution.

[golfing eagles]

[QUOTE=golfing eagles;2395852]

Already in place. And, obsession with the .1 mph gives us chain pullers a guide to over reactors.
The point is that a line has to be drawn somewhere. The line for general public safety was decided upon. Traffic laws are not written for the "best" drivers and cars, but for the average person/vehicle on the road. This is so the most people have the opportunity to us the highways our dollars pay for. It is for societies benefit, not the few that think the are superior. Driving is a PRIVILEGE, not your right. And no one has the right or privilege of breaking those laws. Not even a little. Like being a little bit pregnant. You either are, or you're not. No, .1 mph over is still over. If you are going err, err on the side of caution.

Like I said, your guillotine awaits.....

But it doesn't have to be a line, it could be a sheet----carts at 20, over 25 and you're nailed, under 15 and you suck

[fdpaq0580]

[QUOTE=fdpaq0580;2395915]

Like I said, your guillotine awaits.....

But it doesn't have to be a line, it could be a sheet----carts at 20, over 25 and you're nailed, under 15 and you suck

You mean like in school, A, B, C, D all pass. F, but close gets a D-? Where does a D---- actually become an F? When the line is crossed? Yess it is a line. A fixed point where one exceeds the legal limit. Speed is controlled by the driver and exceeding the legal limit is a choice one makes. So the smart err on the side of caution.

My guillotine is mine, so I will be the one that pulls the lever. No fear! It only cuts carrots for snacks.

[Number 10 GI]

Watch a Twilight Zone episode named "The Obsolete Man", it takes place in a dystopian future. I won't try to give a condensed version of it as it would take too time and space, you need to watch it. My take on the story is something like, righteous legal systems always have to have someone to punish to prove their righteousness and sometimes even the righteous ones become the judged.

[jimhoward]

To paraphrase George Carlin: You know how bad the average driver is? Well half of drivers are even worse than that. I don't think cracking down on speeders would make much difference in reducing bad driving.

[fdpaq0580]

To paraphrase George Carlin: You know how bad the average driver is? Well half of drivers are even worse than that. I don't think cracking down on speeders would make much difference in reducing bad driving.

Might reduce the severity of accidents and deaths. Also relevant is ones definition of good or bad as related to driving. My definition is that good drivers obey the laws, maintain proper space cushion, are aware of their surroundings, aim high in steering so they see well ahead so they can leave themselves an out if there is a traffic problem. They leave early so they will not feel pressed if they find heavy or slow traffic for unforseen reasons (accidents or construction).
Bad drivers speed, tailgate, cut off or block other drivers, let their frustration override their better judgement, try "teaching" other drivers a lesson (the only lesson they learn is that the would be teacher is a jerk), and generally think they are better than the laws.
Jmho.

On this Christmas eve, let me wish everyone a joyous and safe holiday.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

IF that is the case, I wonder how residents of the municipalities would feel about paying extra police to catch golf carts going 20.1 mph in the unincorporated areas, as suggested by some????? After all, all those people are "criminals"

They don't need police to catch golf carts going over 20.1. They need police to catch golf carts going over 25 on public roads, without registration or insurance. They need police to catch cars driving 40 on roads with 20mph posted speed limits. And cars driving 60 on roads with 35mph posted speed limits.

Right now they aren't catching many speeders, but there are plenty of speeders worth catching.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Might reduce the severity of accidents and deaths. Also relevant is ones definition of good or bad as related to driving. My definition is that good drivers obey the laws, maintain proper space cushion, are aware of their surroundings, aim high in steering so they see well ahead so they can leave themselves an out if there is a traffic problem. They leave early so they will not feel pressed if they find heavy or slow traffic for unforseen reasons (accidents or construction).
Bad drivers speed, tailgate, cut off or block other drivers, let their frustration override their better judgement, try "teaching" other drivers a lesson (the only lesson they learn is that the would be teacher is a jerk), and generally think they are better than the laws.
Jmho.

On this Christmas eve, let me wish everyone a joyous and safe holiday.

I definitely drive faster than the speed limit in my car, when possible. However, I also don't tailgate, don't cut people off, use my turn signals *correctly*, and avoid weaving in and out of traffic. If I get pulled over for speeding, I'll get a ticket. And I'll be polite to the police officer, and not blame him for doing his job. So far that's happened once in my life, I pleaded not guilty, and got the ticket nolled. It was a lesser violation "driving above the posted speed limit" which would've been a point against my license and a $300 fine. The cop didn't have a radar reading and didn't show up for my court date so they tossed it out and told me it never happened and to go home. I think I was doing 37 in a 30mph zone and the cop was returning to the station at the end of his shift and thought he'd get a quick "gotcha" for his quota or something. I didn't begrudge him but I knew I wasn't gonna have to pay so I just stayed polite and took the ticket.

[fdpaq0580]

They don't need police to catch golf carts going over 20.1. They need police to catch golf carts going over 25 on public roads, without registration or insurance. They need police to catch cars driving 40 on roads with 20mph posted speed limits. And cars driving 60 on roads with 35mph posted speed limits.

Right now they aren't catching many speeders, but there are plenty of speeders worth catching.

I agree except for the 20.1 golf carts. At 20.1 they need to be made to register as lsv and made to upgrade all safety equipment and registration. Appropriate fines for operating a non-registered lsv on public roads.
Wadaya think?
Merry/Happy/Joyous Whatever day. 😃🙃🫠😉

[Normal]

I agree except for the 20.1 golf carts. At 20.1 they need to be made to register as lsv and made to upgrade all safety equipment and registration. Appropriate fines for operating a non-registered lsv on public roads.
Wadaya think?
Merry/Happy/Joyous Whatever day. 😃🙃🫠😉

Merry Christmas!

Whatever rules we make for each other, we are sure to over complicate the whole matter. The perception of lax restrictions makes driving a golf cart fun. Wouldn’t the government just love to dive in and make rules and restrictions on golf cart drivers? It’s their job to remove the fun out of things.

Because it is Christmas, it reminds me of how countless priests and preachers have tried to complicate our free and eternal Gift. With no strings attached, we were given the greatest Gift of all with simplicity and purity. Then theologians all had to throw their rules in.

A golf cart registration would ruin the simplicity that makes it fun in the first place. Enjoy the season and ignore the rule makers.

[golfing eagles]

I agree except for the 20.1 golf carts. At 20.1 they need to be made to register as lsv and made to upgrade all safety equipment and registration. Appropriate fines for operating a non-registered lsv on public roads.
Wadaya think?
Merry/Happy/Joyous Whatever day. 😃🙃🫠😉

Upgrade "safety" equipment?????:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Here are the mechanical requirements from the Florida DMV for LSVs:

Headlamps;
Front and rear turn signals;
Stop lamps;
Tail lamps;
Reflex reflectors, red – one each side and one on the rear;
Exterior mirror on the driver side and an interior rear-view mirror or exterior mirror on passenger side;
Parking brake;
Windshield;
Seat belt for each designated seat; and a
Vehicle identification number (VIN).

Almost all Yamaha and other brand carts have all of these, THERFORE the only difference is paying the state their fee and the insurance companies their "cut". IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH SAFETY SINCE ALL I HAVE TO DO FOR MY 20 MPH CART IS PAY THE REGISTRATION FEE AND I CAN CRANK IT UP TO 25. THIS IS A FUNDRAISER PURE AND SIMPLE

PS: You asked what I thought, so that's on you.

PPS: MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

[fdpaq0580]

Merry Christmas!

Whatever rules we make for each other, we are sure to over complicate the whole matter. The perception of lax restrictions makes driving a golf cart fun. Wouldn’t the government just love to dive in and make rules and restrictions on golf cart drivers? It’s their job to remove the fun out of things.

Because it is Christmas, it reminds me of how countless priests and preachers have tried to complicate our free and eternal Gift. With no strings attached, we were given the greatest Gift of all with simplicity and purity. Then theologians all had to throw their rules in.

A golf cart registration would ruin the simplicity that makes it fun in the first place. Enjoy the season and ignore the rule makers.

Not sure if you are recommending anarchy for society. That's what it sounds like. Personally, I don't think anarchy would work for a society of more than one.
Rules are made to keep everyone on the same page and to allow things to run smoothly. Rules are not, opposed to what some would like to believe, made to be broken.
Anyway, I do not propose golf cart registration. Only that golf carts be held to the standards that are for golf carts. Those carts that exceed what a golf cart can legally do be held accountable as LSVs, not Lsv in disguise.

[Bill14564]

...
Rules are made to keep everyone on the same page and to allow things to run smoothly. Rules are not, opposed to what some would like to believe, made to be broken.
...


That's true in theory.

In practice, however, it appears that rules are made in such abundance that it is not possible to avoid breaking one. Whether that is by design or just happenstance, it works out well for law enforcement.

[golfing eagles]

That's true in theory.

In practice, however, it appears that rules are made in such abundance that it is not possible to avoid breaking one. Whether that is by design or just happenstance, it works out well for law enforcement.

Couldn't agree more

Current # of laws: Database Coverage: 4,160,185 laws and counting.

Amazing that God only needed 10

[fdpaq0580]

That's true in theory.

In practice, however, it appears that rules are made in such abundance that it is not possible to avoid breaking one. Whether that is by design or just happenstance, it works out well for law enforcement.

True not just in theory. The rest is just excuses.

[fdpaq0580]

Couldn't agree more

Current # of laws: Database Coverage: 4,160,185 laws and counting.

Amazing that God only needed 10

Moses didn't have a laptop, and stone tablets are heavy. Moses managed to only drop one on his climb back down the mountan. Even Moses lied about the 15 commandments, said there were only 10. Number 11 was "thou shall not speed nor alter thy golf cart". How do I know? Sorry, God has sworn me to secrecy.
God makes up new rules every day in hopes that humans will quit acting like entitled brats and at least try to be good members of an orderly society.

[Pugchief]

Couldn't agree more

Current # of laws: Database Coverage: 4,160,185 laws and counting.

Amazing that God only needed 10

If everyone just followed the first 10, we wouldn't need the other 4,160,175

[fdpaq0580]

If everyone just followed the first 10, we wouldn't need the other 4,160,175

Agree. But didn't Carlin distill it down to 1? Much better!

[Bilyclub]

The Villages is a very unique animal for law enforcement services. If you live in the unincorporated section (which many or most do), you only have the county sheriff’s or state troopers at your disposal. If you live in Lady Lake, Fruitland Park, Wildwood or Leesburg, you have supposedly augmented law enforcement support.

What really seems to be going on for the most part (not always) is the county dispatches for any unincorporated calls, and local law enforcement only responds to the areas in their jurisdiction.

The great disparity is those who are in Wildwood or another municipality end up paying for the total law enforcement for the unincorporated while still paying for their own police departments as well.

Unincorporated villigaers get out of paying for local enforcement and are prioritized for sheriff respoce all the while municipal residents pay for both. What is even more disturbing is the county department has to be manned at such a level for being the only responder which isn’t typical in most areas of the country. Rural here, is village upon village with several thousand residents so yes, more than usual are needed for the “unincorporated “.



To say that TV is getting a deal from Sumter County for law enforcement without any evidence is pretty far fetched. What about all the other unincorporated areas in the county? Are they freeloaders too? The Sumter County Sheriff’s presence in TV is pretty limited compared to police coverage in towns like Wildwood. Fruitland Park, and Lady Lake.

[Normal]

To say that TV is getting a deal from Sumter County for law enforcement without any evidence is pretty far fetched. What about all the other unincorporated areas in the county? Are they freeloaders too? The Sumter County Sheriff’s presence in TV is pretty limited compared to police coverage in towns like Wildwood. Fruitland Park, and Lady Lake.

Villages Wildwood residents from CDD’s 9,10,12,13 and 15 pay for the county sheriff and the local Wildwood PD. They have the Wildwood police department respond to their calls. However, their sheriff’s department responds to calls outside their very own

To say they don’t pay more than their fair share is FARFETCHED. They do have to pay for the augmented sheriffs’s staff required for those who don’t have a police department as well as their own local PD.

The total population of Wildwood is almost 20,000. The population of Sumter County is about 152,000. I would say their incorporated residents do have the unfair burden of paying for quite a few who pay nothing for municipal law enforcement.

[Bill14564]

Villages Wildwood residents from CDD’s 9,10,12,13 and 15 pay for the county sheriff and the local Wildwood PD. They have the Wildwood police department respond to their calls. However, their sheriff’s department responds to calls outside their very own

To say they don’t pay more than their fair share is FARFETCHED. They do have to pay for the augmented sheriffs’s staff required for those who don’t have a police department as well as their own local PD.

The total population of Wildwood is almost 20,000. The population of Sumter County is about 152,000. I would say their incorporated residents do have the unfair burden of paying for quite a few who pay nothing for municipal law enforcement.

Ridiculous!

Sumter County Sheriff provides service to ALL Sumter County, Wildwood included.

Wildwood gets ADDITIONAL coverage from Wildwood police. For that ADDITIONAL coverage (and more services from Wildwood) they pay Wildwood taxes.

Who are these "quite a few who pay nothing for municipal law enforcement?" Are you referring to me since I don't pay Wildwood taxes? In return for not paying those taxes I also don't receive Wildwood services. Do you want the entire county to pay for services limited to the incorporated areas???

[Normal]

Ridiculous!

Sumter County Sheriff provides service to ALL Sumter County, Wildwood included.

Wildwood gets ADDITIONAL coverage from Wildwood police. For that ADDITIONAL coverage (and more services from Wildwood) they pay Wildwood taxes.

Who are these "quite a few who pay nothing for municipal law enforcement?" Are you referring to me since I don't pay Wildwood taxes? In return for not paying those taxes I also don't receive Wildwood services. Do you want the entire county to pay for services limited to the incorporated areas???

So you are saying they don’t need the extra personnel in the sheriff’s office? I’m for cutting the sheriff’s department personnel back! Let’s get it done. Taxes are already way to high in Sumter county. Collectively residents paid 56 million last year for the department and this years budget has grown to more than 60 million dollars!

[Bill14564]

So you are saying they don’t need the extra personnel in the sheriff’s office? I’m for cutting the sheriff’s department personnel back! Let’s get it done. Taxes are already way to high in Sumter county. Collectively residents paid 56 million last year for the department and this years budget has grown to more than 60 million dollars!

You're gonna have to highlight the words in my post that implied anything like that.

[bopat]

I blame teachers and parents. Don't need law enforcement if everybody's doing the right things.

[fdpaq0580]

I blame teachers and parents. Don't need law enforcement if everybody's doing the right things.

Seems to make sense. Apparently there is a flaw somewhere in our makeup, and we can be bad, oh so bad.
Also, making parent/family responsible for raising good members of society makes them accountable for bad actions of their kids? So, families responsible for raising "bad actor" would not be able to sue for anything that happens to "bad actor" during interaction with authority. In addition, they could be held accountable for failure to train and teach proper behavior.
This could get really interesting ( think " crazy").

[fdpaq0580]

I blame teachers and parents. Don't need law enforcement if everybody's doing the right things.

Oh, and don't let clergy off the hook, either. Apparently they are not getting the message through to their congregations. See folks straight out of church acting pushy, entitled, angry, running lights, speeding, etc.

[Pugchief]

Villages Wildwood residents from CDD’s 9,10,12,13 and 15 pay for the county sheriff and the local Wildwood PD. They have the Wildwood police department respond to their calls. However, their sheriff’s department responds to calls outside their very own


I can't speak for CDDs 12, 13 and 15, but CDDs 9 & 10 don't have any of their boundaries within the Wildwood city limits. If you have a map showing otherwise, please share it.

[bopat]

Oh, and don't let clergy off the hook, either. Apparently they are not getting the message through to their congregations. See folks straight out of church acting pushy, entitled, angry, running lights, speeding, etc.

Can say politicians too, they feed off that stuff. But the roots are with parents and teachers.

[ElDiabloJoe]

...I’m for cutting the sheriff’s department personnel back! Let’s get it done. Taxes are already way to high in Sumter county.

Huh. So, you're a Defund The Police guy. Noted.
Oh, by the way, it's TOO, not TO.

[Normal]

Huh. So, you're a Defund The Police guy. Noted.
Oh, by the way, it's TOO, not TO.

No, I’m not for defunding my police. The county unincorporated need to pay for their own police. Maybe a surcharge on taxes for the group of over 100,000 in population would pay for whatever extra police they want. Wildwood has enough police and our taxes are already 1,000 dollars above the rest of unincorporated Sumter.

[Bill14564]

No, I’m not for defunding my police. The county unincorporated need to pay for their own police. Maybe a surcharge on taxes for the group of over 100,000 in population would pay for whatever extra police they want. Wildwood has enough police and our taxes are already 1,000 dollars above the rest of unincorporated Sumter.

??? Do you think I do not pay the same Sumter County taxes that fund the Sheriff that you do? We don’t get (or desire) extra police. The extra police presence is in the incorporated areas and funded by extra taxes paid by those living in the incorporated areas. Why is that difficult to understand?

[dewilson58]

I blame teachers and parents. Don't need law enforcement if everybody's doing the right things.

This ain't going to happen tomorrow.

Who do we blame for Adam & Eve not doing the right thing???

[Normal]

??? Do you think I do not pay the same Sumter County taxes that fund the Sheriff that you do? We don’t get (or desire) extra police. The extra police presence is in the incorporated areas and funded by extra taxes paid by those living in the incorporated areas. Why is that difficult to understand?

Your logic is faulty. Do you think the 100,000 plus unincorporated have the same amount of responses by the sheriff’s department as they do in the Wildwood area? I assure the number of responses in Wildwood by the sheriff’s department is significantly smaller because of Wildwood PD augmentation. In fact, I would go a step further and say the responses to Wildwood by the very same Sumter sheriff are near zero!

They mostly support responses to the other 87% of the county. It wouldn’t be unfair at all to ask those unincorporated to pay their fair share for the manpower required for law enforcement….or perhaps reduce the county taxes of Wildwood residents.

[Bill14564]

Your logic is faulty. Do you think the 100,000 plus unincorporated have the same amount of responses by the sheriff’s department as they do in the Wildwood area? I assure the number of responses in Wildwood by the sheriff’s department is significantly smaller because of Wildwood PD augmentation. In fact, I would go a step further and say the responses to Wildwood by the very same Sumter sheriff are near zero!

I think the 100,000 plus unincorporated have the same access to the Sheriff that those in the Wildwood area have, no more and no less. Reiterating from my last post, those in the Wildwood area have PD augmentation paid for by their Wildwood taxes.

And I would reply that I very much doubt you are correct but I would be glad to look at any actual data supporting your assertion.

If you feel strongly that you are being underserved by the Sheriff then you should talk to the Sheriff or the Sumter County Commissioners. If you feel the Wildwood police are unnecessary then you could talk to the Wildwood police or to the Wildwood supervisors.

[bopat]

This ain't going to happen tomorrow.

Who do we blame for Adam & Eve not doing the right thing???

I'd keep reading the story, it's pretty interesting. And relevant, even today.

[fdpaq0580]

This ain't going to happen tomorrow.

Who do we blame for Adam & Eve not doing the right thing???

Excellent question!
Perfect? If I'm not perfect, don't blame me. I was made this way!

[fdpaq0580]

I'd keep reading the story, it's pretty interesting. And relevant, even today.

Very interesting, IMHO. As to relevant, about as relevant as Mary Shelley's Frankenstein., but with lots of intergenerational twists and turns and rule changes.