Tipping in restaurants

[Risuli]

Just eliminate all special tax breaks for everyone. Flat tax everything. The rich guy pays 5% on his million dollar boat, the poor guy pays 5% on his 300 dollar row boat.

I've always felt that a flat tax across the board with no exemptions would be fair. But, I keep hearing that I don't understand how this would not be fair. The explanations just don't seem to make sense to me...

[fdpaq0580]

Just eliminate all special tax breaks for everyone. Flat tax everything. The rich guy pays 5% on his million dollar boat, the poor guy pays 5% on his 300 dollar row boat.

The poor guy has A BOAT? Jeez! I'm worse off than I thought! 😭😭😭

[fdpaq0580]

I think a $15,000 standard deduction for each member of the household might be great. Of course, a poor family with 6 kids would end up getting a deduction larger than their income - do they get a kickback, instead of paying taxes?

Why would a poor couple breed themselves into greater poverty? It will be the kids who ultimately suffer.

[Bill14564]

I've always felt that a flat tax across the board with no exemptions would be fair. But, I keep hearing that I don't understand how this would not be fair. The explanations just don't seem to make sense to me...

"Fair" is in the eye of the check-writer.

If I'm earning in the upper tax brackets it sure doesn't seem fair that the guy over there only pays 10% on his income or maybe nothing at all. We should have a flat tax so I pay less and he at least pays something.

If I'm earning in the lower tax brackets and can barely afford food then it sure doesn't seem fair that the rich guy over there not only has a private chef but also has enough to pay for fuel for his million dollar yacht. We should raise his taxes a bit so I can afford to eat every night or go to the doctor once a year.

[Stu from NYC]

"Fair" is in the eye of the check-writer.

If I'm earning in the upper tax brackets it sure doesn't seem fair that the guy over there only pays 10% on his income or maybe nothing at all. We should have a flat tax so I pay less and he at least pays something.

If I'm earning in the lower tax brackets and can barely afford food then it sure doesn't seem fair that the rich guy over there not only has a private chef but also has enough to pay for fuel for his million dollar yacht. We should raise his taxes a bit so I can afford to eat every night or go to the doctor once a year.

Depends upon what the rich guy over there is already paying.

[Bill14564]

Depends upon what the rich guy over there is already paying.

Matters to the rich guy, not to the poor guy. Whatever the rich guy is paying he can still afford the personal chef, the yacht, and the fuel. Whatever the rich guy is paying the poor guy still cannot afford food or health care. The rich guy is going to feel ill-used as long as he is paying more than the poor guy. The poor guy isn't going to give a hoot about what the rich guy feels as long as the poor guy doesn't have enough to survive.

I guess it might matter to us based on our impression of where we exist on the line between the poor guy and the rich guy. To paraphrase something I saw on the internet, I may or may not be two missed paychecks from being the poor guy but I am absolutely not two extra paychecks from hiring a personal chef and owning a yacht. We might think we should feel for the rich guy because some day we might have to pay that too while in reality we ought to watch out for the poor guy because, if anything, we are more likely to be in his shoes. And besides, it's the decent thing to do.

[fdpaq0580]

I wonder, what would Jesus say about us and our answers? Somehow I can't imagine He would support a flat tax system in a society that tolerates such an unbelievable difference between the haves and have nots.

[mraines]

Have you noticed the food prices in restaurants have gone up dramatically. I'm not sure everybody knows this but last fall, 2024. Florida enacted a law mandating restaurants pay a base wage of $9.98 to their wait staff and a guarantee of $13/hour when combined with the tips.The law gave restaurants time to change their menu prices so they could pay the base wage.
So, why are we continuing to pay 20% tip when there is already a built in tip in the menu prices?
NOTE: the base wage is also going to go up to $10.98 this fall
Could you survive on $9.98/hr? Plus, they have to wait on entitled Villagers.

[mraines]

I worked as a first responder for many years. No one ever tipped us for saving their lives.

No one ever tipped me for doing my job either but I was paid a fair wage. Sad for you.

[Velvet]

Could you survive on $9.98/hr? Plus, they have to wait on entitled Villagers.

No one is forcing people to take that particular job. I seem to remember that most of the wait staff used to be part-timers. You take a gig and it doesn’t pay enough, you move on.

[Road-Runner]

Starting at 13, I've worked all my life including the first 7-8 years in kitchen/serving/bartending positions at two different country clubs. Both of our kids have served and bartended as starter jobs. We're comfortable enough but if we choose to go out at a restaurant, we order knowing we'll add 20% for good service. Only lately have we started adding less tip when we get especially bad service. 20% is the default or we don't go out to eat.

[biker1]

Not $9.98/hr. Tipped employees are guaranteed $13/hr and this is going to $14/hr in September. About 1% of workers are earning minimum wage in Florida.

Could you survive on $9.98/hr? Plus, they have to wait on entitled Villagers.

[bopat]

Ok now, listen up. If you don't like your job or your pay, it's up to you to change something.

If you keep doing the same thing and expect something different, you've got a problem.

And if you wait for the government to save you, you've got a bigger problem.

[Rainger99]

I am not sure of the distinction between which employees should be tipped and which should not be tipped.

Currently, the minimum wage in Florida is $13.00 an hour, and the required minimum wage for tipped employees is $9.98. If the tipped employee does not make $3.02 and hour in tips, then the employer must make up the difference so that everyone makes at least $13.00 an hour.

What is the Minimum Wage for Tipped Employees in Florida? (2025) (https://www.floridalaborlawyer.com/what-is-the-minimum-wage-for-tipped-employees-in-florida-2025/)

It appears that $13 an hour is either a living wage or it is not a living wage.

If they all get at least $13 an hour - whether they work at Publix, Aldi, McDonald's, or serving tables at a small cafe in the Villages or in Wildwood or Leesburg or mowing your lawn or operating the gates in the Villages - why do people believe that those serving tables in a restaurant or small cafe deserve to be tipped and the others don't? Are the tipped employees working harder than the other workers?

I was at McDonald's recently and I was impressed at how hard the person at the front counter worked. It was a busy morning and she was taking orders, serving the food, making some coffee drinks, etc. She seemed to be really busy. I really think that she was working harder than some person serving tables at a Country Club in the Villages.

So why don't we tip these people?

[Normal]

Matters to the rich guy, not to the poor guy. Whatever the rich guy is paying he can still afford the personal chef, the yacht, and the fuel. Whatever the rich guy is paying the poor guy still cannot afford food or health care. The rich guy is going to feel ill-used as long as he is paying more than the poor guy. The poor guy isn't going to give a hoot about what the rich guy feels as long as the poor guy doesn't have enough to survive.

I guess it might matter to us based on our impression of where we exist on the line between the poor guy and the rich guy. To paraphrase something I saw on the internet, I may or may not be two missed paychecks from being the poor guy but I am absolutely not two extra paychecks from hiring a personal chef and owning a yacht. We might think we should feel for the rich guy because some day we might have to pay that too while in reality we ought to watch out for the poor guy because, if anything, we are more likely to be in his shoes. And besides, it's the decent thing to do.

So use taxes as a tool to eliminate poverty? That isn’t what taxes are intended for. They are intended to fund the government that collects them, nothing more or less. They certainly aren’t intended for subjective agendas.

[Bill14564]

So use taxes as a tool to eliminate poverty? That isn’t what taxes are intended for. They are intended to fund the government that collects them, nothing more or less. They certainly aren’t intended for subjective agendas.

That has nothing at all to do with what I wrote.

[Pugchief]

So use taxes as a tool to eliminate poverty? That isn’t what taxes are intended for. They are intended to fund the government that collects them, nothing more or less. They certainly aren’t intended for subjective agendas.

LOL
Maybe not intended, but certainly done anyway.

[Rainger99]

So use taxes as a tool to eliminate poverty? That isn’t what taxes are intended for. They are intended to fund the government that collects them, nothing more or less. They certainly aren’t intended for subjective agendas.

That may have been the case a long time ago.

Currently, the federal individual income tax is structured so that the poor owe little or no income tax. In addition, tax credits—primarily the earned income tax credit (EITC) and the refundable portion of the child tax credit, called the additional child tax credit (ACTC)—increase the disposable income of many low-income taxpayers who work and have children. This has reduced poverty.

Poverty and the Tax Code : Democracy Journal (https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/32/poverty-and-the-tax-code/)

[fdpaq0580]

I was at McDonald's recently and I was impressed at how hard the person at the front counter worked. It was a busy morning and she was taking orders, serving the food, making some coffee drinks, etc. She seemed to be really busy. I really think that she was working harder than some person serving tables at a Country Club in the Villages.

So why don't we tip these people?

The question should be, "why do we tip anyone? "
Obviously, an awful lot of people are making minimum wage and seem to be doing alright. Restranteurs, add $3.02 to servers wages and eliminate tipping for your customers and save them money. Servers no longer have to smooge with customers in hope of making minimum.
Don't get me wrong. I don't hate servers. I do hate the arbitrary practice of tipping. This thread has several examples of people who have no idea who they "should be tipping", or how much. I think the practice is ridiculously out of hand. Either everyone, from president on down works for tips, or no one should. Or, next time you want to let your server know that you appreciate the sandwich and water (with lemon) they they brought you, leave them a nice Hallmark thank you card. Those things are expensive and require thoughtfulness and effort on your part. I'm certain your waiter/waitress will really appreciate your kindness.

[Stu from NYC]

That may have been the case a long time ago.

Currently, the federal individual income tax is structured so that the poor owe little or no income tax. In addition, tax credits—primarily the earned income tax credit (EITC) and the refundable portion of the child tax credit, called the additional child tax credit (ACTC)—increase the disposable income of many low-income taxpayers who work and have children. This has reduced poverty.

Poverty and the Tax Code : Democracy Journal (https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/32/poverty-and-the-tax-code/)

It also has created a culture where people do not care what things cost as the govt pays the bill.

[fdpaq0580]

It also has created a culture where people do not care what things cost as the govt pays the bill.

I don’t know any of those folks. I, and everyone I know cares what things cost. And the government sure isn't paying my bills. I guess I must be doing something wrong.

[Stu from NYC]

I don’t know any of those folks. I, and everyone I know cares what things cost. And the government sure isn't paying my bills. I guess I must be doing something wrong.

Ever ask what surgery will cost before going under the knife?

[Rainger99]

Ever ask what surgery will cost before going under the knife?

Unless it is an emergency, I always ask for a pre-authorization to make sure that the insurance company will pay it.

[Skip]

Mission Resort and Golf Club: "23% gratuity added for parties of 8 or more".
(aka "Tipping Creep.")
Wanna split an $18 Shrimp Cocktail?
$3 plate charge added.

Saw on a hand held POS System in Ocala recently...
Your tipping choices were: 20%, 25% and 30% !
I laughed out loud!

Skip

[fdpaq0580]

Mission Resort and Golf Club: "23% gratuity added for parties of 8 or more".
(aka "Tipping Creep.")
Wanna split an $18 Shrimp Cocktail?
$3 plate charge added.

Saw on a hand held POS System in Ocala recently...
Your tipping choices were: 20%, 25% and 30% !
I laughed out loud!

Skip

I would rather serve myself, give the cook my order, sit at the table of my choice, read the menu on the table, refill my drink when I want it, not when/if the waiter happens to wander by. Oh, and not have to wait 15 minutes for the bill when I'm done because the waiter is on a smoke break. Don't think I forgot the "bus-boy". I'll leave a buck on the table for taking a minute or two to clear the table ND wipe it off with the ubiquitous wet/stinky towel they always have handy.
My "blest day" will be when tipping is a thing of the past.

[eyc234]

Our days of tipping like we have in the past are going to disappear when the law changes for taxing tips. If you are getting a deduction, you do not need as much from us.

[Bill14564]

Our days of tipping like we have in the past are going to disappear when the law changes for taxing tips. If you are getting a deduction, you do not need as much from us.

How much impact will the deduction for tips actually have?

Not looking for an answer about getting to deduct up to $25,000 in tips. Wondering what the correct percentage to tip will be when the servers will not have to pay taxes on a portion of their tips. Save me the trouble of doing the math.

[Bill14564]

I would rather serve myself, give the cook my order, sit at the table of my choice, read the menu on the table, refill my drink when I want it, not when/if the waiter happens to wander by. Oh, and not have to wait 15 minutes for the bill when I'm done because the waiter is on a smoke break. Don't think I forgot the "bus-boy". I'll leave a buck on the table for taking a minute or two to clear the table ND wipe it off with the ubiquitous wet/stinky towel they always have handy.
My "blest day" will be when tipping is a thing of the past.

And getting rid of tipping will solve the problems you mentioned? It really, really sounds like eating out is not for you.

[Stu from NYC]

How much impact will the deduction for tips actually have?

Not looking for an answer about getting to deduct up to $25,000 in tips. Wondering what the correct percentage to tip will be when the servers will not have to pay taxes on a portion of their tips. Save me the trouble of doing the math.

Good question, have not decided how we will handle this but interested to see how this will affect servers.

[Pugchief]

I would rather serve myself, give the cook my order, sit at the table of my choice, read the menu on the table, refill my drink when I want it, not when/if the waiter happens to wander by. Oh, and not have to wait 15 minutes for the bill when I'm done because the waiter is on a smoke break. Don't think I forgot the "bus-boy". I'll leave a buck on the table for taking a minute or two to clear the table ND wipe it off with the ubiquitous wet/stinky towel they always have handy.
My "blest day" will be when tipping is a thing of the past.

Hope you're married; this isn't going over well on your next date....

[bmcgowan13]

I see nothing wrong in a simple showing of appreciation. But when a pleasant little gift/surprise turns into an expectation that forms a significant part of a business strategy that demands customers pay a significant part of employee wages, that, in my book is a scam. Devoid of conscience, ethics, honesty.

I tried telling my wife this exact quote last week when I didn't buy her an "obligatory" gift for our 23rd wedding anniversary....


I did not realize we have a very lumpy couch....

[Rainger99]

How much impact will the deduction for tips actually have?

Not looking for an answer about getting to deduct up to $25,000 in tips. Wondering what the correct percentage to tip will be when the servers will not have to pay taxes on a portion of their tips. Save me the trouble of doing the math.

I asked AI for the answer for three waitress. One makes $50,000 a year; one makes $75,000, and one makes $125,000.

Summary of Tax Savings
- Waitress 1 ($50,000): Saves $2,946.50

- Waitress 2 ($75,000): Saves $4,077.50

- Waitress 3 ($125,000): Saves $5,618

[Bill14564]

I asked AI for the answer for three waitress. One makes $50,000 a year; one makes $75,000, and one makes $125,000.

Summary of Tax Savings
- Waitress 1 ($50,000): Saves $2,946.50

- Waitress 2 ($75,000): Saves $4,077.50

- Waitress 3 ($125,000): Saves $5,618

AI is known to be bad at math so I wonder how it came up with these numbers but regardless, this doesn’t tell me how I should adjust my tip percentage to account for the new deduction.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The question should be, "why do we tip anyone? "
Obviously, an awful lot of people are making minimum wage and seem to be doing alright. Restranteurs, add $3.02 to servers wages and eliminate tipping for your customers and save them money. Servers no longer have to smooge with customers in hope of making minimum.
Don't get me wrong. I don't hate servers. I do hate the arbitrary practice of tipping. This thread has several examples of people who have no idea who they "should be tipping", or how much. I think the practice is ridiculously out of hand. Either everyone, from president on down works for tips, or no one should. Or, next time you want to let your server know that you appreciate the sandwich and water (with lemon) they they brought you, leave them a nice Hallmark thank you card. Those things are expensive and require thoughtfulness and effort on your part. I'm certain your waiter/waitress will really appreciate your kindness.

Waiters and waitresses in the US typically don't work full time. They get no benefits, paid days off, double-time for working holidays, etc.

In countries where wait staff don't typically get tipped, they tend to work full time and health care is universal so they don't pay extra for health insurance and don't need employer-paid health benefits.

US restaurants won't pay employees minimum wage PLUS give them 40-hour workweeks PLUS medical benefits, and the government won't give them medical benefits either.

So - that extra $3/hour doesn't mean much, if you're only working 20-25 hours a week and have to pay the bills. That's why being on wait staff tends to be a more desireable job in the USA, than being a cashier at Target. Wait staff get to earn a basic, low minimum, plus bonuses. It's not that much different from a sales person who works on commission, other than the dollar amount.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

It also has created a culture where people do not care what things cost as the govt pays the bill.

It also has created a culture where wealthy people also don't care what things cost, because living in a food desert or having your children go to school without breakfast, or having to work a full time job while attending college full time, is what poor people have to do, and who cares about them.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

AI is known to be bad at math so I wonder how it came up with these numbers but regardless, this doesn’t tell me how I should adjust my tip percentage to account for the new deduction.

You shouldn't, unless you're giving more or less than you think the server has earned by serving you and your table. If you are, then adjust accordingly.

I have always, and will always, tip either 15%, 18%, or (20%+1-cent), if I tip a tipped-wage server. If I'm not tipping them, it's because they did something really BAD, and I tip them nothing and tell the manager why.

To me a tipped-wage server is a waiter or waitress who comes to your table, takes your order, returns to make sure your meal is satisfactory, offers to top off your water-glass if you have one, and generally either clears the table him/herself or instructs the bus-person to do it at the appropriate time. If the bus-person does an amazing job I might give them an additional buck or three, on top of whatever I gave the actual server. The host/ess gets nothing. The barista at Starbucks is not a tipped server. Nor is the cashier at Burger King. Tip jars at check-out are offensive to me. I didn't like it when I worked for a place that had them, and I don't like it when I'm the customer.

[fdpaq0580]

I tried telling my wife this exact quote last week when I didn't buy her an "obligatory" gift for our 23rd wedding anniversary....


I did not realize we have a very lumpy couch....

Disclosure; I am a happily married man. Any gift for my wife is out of love, not obligation. She is my mate, my best friend and lover. Not a random waitress or waiter.

PS, you deserve the couch. Maybe before your 24th anniversary you will consider suggesting she buy some comfortable new furniture that includes a great couch.

[fdpaq0580]

Waiters and waitresses in the US typically don't work full time. They get no benefits, paid days off, double-time for working holidays, etc..

So, I infer from your information that a waitstaff part time job isn't meant to provide a full-time living wage with benefits. So what is with the guilt tripping of customers to tip 10, 20, 25, 30% to supplement the pitiful income of a part-time job to the level of middle class full-time employee.
Maybe the restaurant business needs to rethink how to attract wait personnel without tips. Good pay, benefits, but forget tips. Give waitstaff back their dignity. They would be better off as valued employees than pitiful underpaid quasi-beggers living off the "generosity" of customers.

[fdpaq0580]

So - that extra $3/hour doesn't mean much, if you're only working 20-25 hours a week and have to pay the bills. .

Working 20-25 hrs a week isn'tsupposed to pay the bills. It sould be to pick up a few extra bucks! Supplemental income! Not a career. Add the $3 to my bill and no one will need to tip.
Think about this. Recently wife and I dined at one of our local CCs.dinner bill @$100. Couple at our table @$100. $40. In tips in 1 hrs. Times 5 ( the number of tables she was handling as far as I could tel). All the other labels probably left as much (or more). On tips alone our waitress brought in over $200 in one hour on tips alone. At that rate she makes more in 10 hrs then I do in a month.

[Rainger99]

Waiters and waitresses in the US typically don't work full time. They get no benefits, paid days off, double-time for working holidays, etc.

In countries where wait staff don't typically get tipped, they tend to work full time and health care is universal so they don't pay extra for health insurance and don't need employer-paid health benefits.

US restaurants won't pay employees minimum wage PLUS give them 40-hour workweeks PLUS medical benefits, and the government won't give them medical benefits either.

So - that extra $3/hour doesn't mean much, if you're only working 20-25 hours a week and have to pay the bills. That's why being on wait staff tends to be a more desireable job in the USA, than being a cashier at Target. Wait staff get to earn a basic, low minimum, plus bonuses. It's not that much different from a sales person who works on commission, other than the dollar amount.

Most fast food employees and many grocery store employees don’t work full time either and most don’t get health insurance so even if they are making minimum wage, they are probably not living in a designer home in the Villages.

Don’t they deserve a tip?

And again, the law requires that waiters get minimum wage. The gap is made up by tips or the employer.

[Haggar]

T- to
I-insure
P-prompt
S-service

In reality the term TIPS goes back to the 1600's when the word for "to pass" or "to give" was used. The Online Etymology Dictionary states the meaning "give a gratuity" is attested to 1706.

Nothing to do with "to Insure prompt service".

Anyway in some restaurants (in NY) the prices on the menu state the prices shown includes an allowance for a TIP so no TIP is "required". I don't know how that worked out.

[Rainger99]

Anyway in some restaurants (in NY) the prices on the menu state the prices shown includes an allowance for a TIP so no TIP is "required". I don't know how that worked out.

Apparently, they have ended that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT0JRiFHnDA

[Velvet]

It also has created a culture where wealthy people also don't care what things cost, because living in a food desert or having your children go to school without breakfast, or having to work a full time job while attending college full time, is what poor people have to do, and who cares about them.

Charity is a separate thing entirely. My super wealthy friends have family foundations established for charity. They are not thinking about it every second of their lives.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Working 20-25 hrs a week isn'tsupposed to pay the bills. It sould be to pick up a few extra bucks! Supplemental income! Not a career. Add the $3 to my bill and no one will need to tip.
Think about this. Recently wife and I dined at one of our local CCs.dinner bill @$100. Couple at our table @$100. $40. In tips in 1 hrs. Times 5 ( the number of tables she was handling as far as I could tel). All the other labels probably left as much (or more). On tips alone our waitress brought in over $200 in one hour on tips alone. At that rate she makes more in 10 hrs then I do in a month.

You could've left her just 15% instead of 20%. Or here's an idea - get a job as a waiter at the CC restaurant, and demand that you get only state minimum wage of $14/hour, and reject all tips. Do that for a full dinner shift three days a week, for 6 months.

If you can handle that with no complaint, your point will be valid.

[fdpaq0580]

You could've left her just 15% instead of 20%. Or here's an idea - get a job as a waiter at the CC restaurant, and demand that you get only state minimum wage of $14/hour, and reject all tips. Do that for a full dinner shift three days a week, for 6 months.

If you can handle that with no complaint, your point will be valid.

Get a job? That's you answer. I've had jobs, thank you very much. Never got tips. Now on the doorstep of 80 with impairments I can't do much of anything. But I can see how leaving the small change on the counter has morphed into a pity ploy that is continuously growing like the blob. Once a few coins became a buck. Then, somewhere, somehow it became a small percentage. 5% was generous, but 10% was "easier to figure". (I wonder who suggested that). It had already become "all about the service"? The service? Really? A cup of coffee, tell the cook what to prepare, bring it to me after it's been sitting under the warming lamp for a while, maybe refill my cup once, give me the bill. It ain't rocket science. And now the pre-suggested /calculated for your convenience, amounts for basic servic has, in some establishments are 20%, 25%, 30%. In what universe is it twice as difficult to move a late of filet mignon from the kitchen shelf to my table than a hamburger steak. Why should my food preference cost twice as much fo the same service effort. Scam! Rip off! Everybody knows it, but argues against the reality because we don't want to acknowledge that we are the suckers the restaurants know we are.

[ThirdOfFive]

We don't eat out that often (once every 2-3 weeks) so tipping is a non-issue. In any case we're not that motivated by price and certainly don't sit there at the end of a meal, calculator in hand, trying to figure out how much an "optional" addition to the cost of the meal should be. If the service is exemplary, I reward it accordingly. But I don't expect to pay for minimal competence.

[retiredguy123]

If the service is lousy, the tip should be zero. Unfortunately, many people don't agree.

[fdpaq0580]

We don't eat out that often (once every 2-3 weeks) so tipping is a non-issue. In any case we're not that motivated by price and certainly don't sit there at the end of a meal, calculator in hand, trying to figure out how much an "optional" addition to the cost of the meal should be. If the service is exemplary, I reward it accordingly. But I don't expect to pay for minimal competence.

My whole point is really about wait service "requirements". In any given restaurant what would basic "C" grade service (what you are already paying the restaurant to provide so that you can enjoy the meal they provide?
What extra can the server do, over and above, to elevate your dining experience to a "B" grade, deserving of a commendation/tip?
What could you imagine a server , given there position in restaurant hierarchy, possibly do to warrant the waitstaff equivalent of a medal of excellence for "exemplary" service over and above the call of duty?
Spilled soup in your lap = D. Apologized = D+
What deserves an "F" ? We won't go there, but I won't be back.

[Velvet]

My whole point is really about wait service "requirements". In any given restaurant what would basic "C" grade service (what you are already paying the restaurant to provide so that you can enjoy the meal they provide?
What extra can the server do, over and above, to elevate your dining experience to a "B" grade, deserving of a commendation/tip?
What could you imagine a server , given there position in restaurant hierarchy, possibly do to warrant the waitstaff equivalent of a medal of excellence for "exemplary" service over and above the call of duty?
Spilled soup in your lap = D. Apologized = D+
What deserves an "F" ? We won't go there, but I won't be back.

What does a passing level of service person do? Not call you, “Hon” or other terms of familiarity and show a level of good manners in general. Their hands etc are clean and their appearance is not frightening. (White gloves, as in the past, are not expected.) They can remember your order and check once during the meal if it is ok. They can pay attention to your table so when you signal they notice and come as soon as they can. If the owners gives them an unreasonable number of tables to look after because of a special situation, they can mention it, so you have more patience with the service.
Superior service is when they remember what you like and offer a welcoming smile. Or they do something above and beyond from what is generally done.

[Stu from NYC]

We have come across some scary looking restaurant employees in last few years. A face full of metal does not give me ideas of returning anytime soon.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Get a job? That's you answer. I've had jobs, thank you very much. Never got tips. Now on the doorstep of 80 with impairments I can't do much of anything. But I can see how leaving the small change on the counter has morphed into a pity ploy that is continuously growing like the blob. Once a few coins became a buck. Then, somewhere, somehow it became a small percentage. 5% was generous, but 10% was "easier to figure". (I wonder who suggested that). It had already become "all about the service"? The service? Really? A cup of coffee, tell the cook what to prepare, bring it to me after it's been sitting under the warming lamp for a while, maybe refill my cup once, give me the bill. It ain't rocket science. And now the pre-suggested /calculated for your convenience, amounts for basic servic has, in some establishments are 20%, 25%, 30%. In what universe is it twice as difficult to move a late of filet mignon from the kitchen shelf to my table than a hamburger steak. Why should my food preference cost twice as much fo the same service effort. Scam! Rip off! Everybody knows it, but argues against the reality because we don't want to acknowledge that we are the suckers the restaurants know we are.

They can calculate whatever they want. They can recommend a 100% tip if they want. I'll still leave 15, 18, or 20% depending on the service received, or 0 and a talk with the manager if the service was particularly bad.

There's nothing forcing you to pay 30% tip. In fact there's nothing forcing you to pay any tip, UNLESS you have a large party where you're told, in advance, that a minimum tip is included in the total price at the end of the meal.

You don't have to pay a tip if you don't want to. But in the USA, tipping wait staff is accepted as a cultural expectation. It's the American thing to do. You want to be a patriot? Then tip your wait staff. You still don't HAVE to tip them. And if you do tip them, you can tip however much or little you want.

It doesn't even matter WHY tipping is the accepted thing to do here in the USA. Because they don't get paid minimum wage? Okay. Because you want to give them a bonus for really excellent service over and above whatever they DO get paid? Also Okay. Because you want to show off how rich you are? Equally Okay. Because you want to prove to your dinner date that you're not heartless? Absolutely Okay. Because it's Tuesday and you always tip on Tuesdays? Sure, Okay. Pick a reason. It doesn't matter.

I've posted countless times already what *I* do. We get it. You're against tipping. So don't tip. Or don't go to restaurants in the USA where tipping the server is a routine and culturally correct thing to do.

[Bill14564]

My whole point is really about wait service "requirements". In any given restaurant what would basic "C" grade service (what you are already paying the restaurant to provide so that you can enjoy the meal they provide?
What extra can the server do, over and above, to elevate your dining experience to a "B" grade, deserving of a commendation/tip?
What could you imagine a server , given there position in restaurant hierarchy, possibly do to warrant the waitstaff equivalent of a medal of excellence for "exemplary" service over and above the call of duty?
Spilled soup in your lap = D. Apologized = D+
What deserves an "F" ? We won't go there, but I won't be back.

Very interesting point.

Let's assume you get your way and tipping is done away with. The restaurant raises prices to what is required to pay their servers and you know from the start what you will walk out spending. Let's say the food is great and the service is exceptional and you're happy to pay $120 for the two of you. Excellent, a win for the customer.

Okay, let's say the food is still good but the service is terrible. You wait ten minutes for your beverage and to order your meal and when it comes out it doesn't have the sides you ordered. Are you still happy to pay $120 for the two of you and consider it a win?

The way things are today, with tipping, you have options. The price on the menu would be at least 20% less (maybe more but let's keep things simple). If the service is great you can show your consideration with a 20% tip and walk out of there happy to be paying that same $120. However, if the service is poor then you can withhold part or all of that compensation and walk out paying less. You have options.

In both cases, if the food was bad you could send it back and perhaps walk out without paying anything at all. If you eat it you bought it but you can choose not to eat it. The service is a different story; it isn't likely that you could get to the end of the meal then complain about bad service and receive a discount. By the time the meal was over you have received/consumed/utilized the service but since there is no separate charge for service there is no separate amount to reduce. You wanted a set price for the meal, you ate the meal, now you pay that price whether the service was excellent or terrible.

So what are the elements of the service that warrant a 10%, 15%, or 20% tip? Today, we get to decide that for ourselves. If tipping is done away with, then the question is moot since the employee will be paid the maximum amount regardless of the quality of service he provides. Thinking about it that way, I'm a little more pro-tipping.

[fdpaq0580]

What does a passing level of service person do? Not call you, “Hon” or other terms of familiarity and show a level of good manners in general. Their hands etc are clean and their appearance is not frightening. (White gloves, as in the past, are not expected.) They can remember your order and check once during the meal if it is ok. They can pay attention to your table so when you signal they notice and come as soon as they can. If the owners gives them an unreasonable number of tables to look after because of a special situation, they can mention it, so you have more patience with the service.
Superior service is when they remember what you like and offer a welcoming smile. Or they do something above and beyond from what is generally done.

Although I am not fond of familiarizing of a personal nature from people I don't know, like "Hon", "Sweetie", "Hair-lip", or "Babe", I assume the establishment would expect those that represent them to be polite. No more, no less.
Hands clean is a basic health/food safety requirement. No points for that. As for appearance not frightening, safe, clean and covered. Faces don't frightening me. But some of the tattoos I have seen were pretty off-putting I have to admit.
Remembering what you ordered? If it isn't written down, this is on the server. No points for remembering, but a chance of losing points if they bring me someone else's food. Oh, yeah. If my meal was delivered to and placed before the wrong person, don't bring it to me. You would be re-serving food already delivered to someone else. Like assuming those leftover fries can be reserved with the next burgers
Checking once after you have a chance to sample your food should be required as much for the restaurant as for customer satisfaction. You wouldn't want your customer sitting there with blody undercooked chicken or a half frozen halibut where everyone can see or smell it. Again, no points for basic requirements.
I am understanding if some accident happens. I am forgiving if the server is not at fault, or even if they are as long as there was no malice. But that doesn’t mean I think the customer is obligated to pay for the damage or inconvenience.
"Superior service is when they remember what you like (I've never met them before) nd offer you a welcoming smile". That is just a natural greeting! I do it all the time! Pay me!
"Or they do somethingabove and beyond what is generally done". Like what? Seriously!? A pedicure while I'm eating. Wash my car? What service "above and beyond". Realistically, I can't think of anything that doesn’t sound silly.
We'll still go out to eat. We still will tip as long as it is the custom. And, I will continue to point it out for the nonsense that it truly is.
Pardon me. I'm taking my wife to dinner. 20% tip included. 🫤

[CFrance]

Although I am not fond of familiarizing of a personal nature from people I don't know, like "Hon", "Sweetie", "Hair-lip", or "Babe", I assume the establishment would expect those that represent them to be polite. No more, no less.
Hands clean is a basic health/food safety requirement. No points for that. As for appearance not frightening, safe, clean and covered. Faces don't frightening me. But some of the tattoos I have seen were pretty off-putting I have to admit.
Remembering what you ordered? If it isn't written down, this is on the server. No points for remembering, but a chance of losing points if they bring me someone else's food. Oh, yeah. If my meal was delivered to and placed before the wrong person, don't bring it to me. You would be re-serving food already delivered to someone else. Like assuming those leftover fries can be reserved with the next burgers
Checking once after you have a chance to sample your food should be required as much for the restaurant as for customer satisfaction. You wouldn't want your customer sitting there with blody undercooked chicken or a half frozen halibut where everyone can see or smell it. Again, no points for basic requirements.
I am understanding if some accident happens. I am forgiving if the server is not at fault, or even if they are as long as there was no malice. But that doesn’t mean I think the customer is obligated to pay for the damage or inconvenience.
"Superior service is when they remember what you like (I've never met them before) nd offer you a welcoming smile". That is just a natural greeting! I do it all the time! Pay me!
"Or they do somethingabove and beyond what is generally done". Like what? Seriously!? A pedicure while I'm eating. Wash my car? What service "above and beyond". Realistically, I can't think of anything that doesn’t sound silly.
We'll still go out to eat. We still will tip as long as it is the custom. And, I will continue to point it out for the nonsense that it truly is.
Pardon me. I'm taking my wife to dinner. 20% tip included. 🫤

One time we scraped a rental car pulling into valet parking. While we were in the restaurant, the valet guys buffed the scrape out. Now that's "above and beyond." Big tip.

[Velvet]

Difference between a 3 star service and a 5 star service. When I visit my gf in a five star condo, the valet is there to take my car immediately. Greets me with a smile and my name (I am only a visitor) and gets the elevator door for me.

[fdpaq0580]

Difference between a 3 star service and a 5 star service. When I visit my gf in a five star condo, the valet is there to take my car immediately. Greets me with a smile and my name (I am only a visitor) and gets the elevator door for me.

When I visit my gf in four star condo, the valet is there to take my car immediately. Greets me by name, smile and a wink (I'm only visiting). I go into the lobby while he calls my wife. Maybe I should have tipped him.?.

[Rainger99]

I just checked the Villages website.

There is a position for a
GOLF SHOP SALES ASSOCIATE at TIERRA DEL SOL. The pay is $14 an hour.

I think that gate attendants make less than that. That is not a hard job but you are constantly busy. Busier than most waiters.

But we don’t tip them.

[fdpaq0580]

One time we scraped a rental car pulling into valet parking. While we were in the restaurant, the valet guys buffed the scrape out. Now that's "above and beyond." Big tip.

Agree! The fact they had the equipment shows me you weren't the first. Definitely tip worthy and entrepreneurial that they found a niche market for that kind of service.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I just checked the Villages website.

There is a position for a
GOLF SHOP SALES ASSOCIATE at TIERRA DEL SOL. The pay is $14 an hour.

I think that gate attendants make less than that. That is not a hard job but you are constantly busy. Busier than most waiters.

But we don’t tip them.

Minimum wage is $13/hour in Florida. Gate attendants work for Community Watch. Golf shop sales associates work for The Villages.

[fdpaq0580]

I just checked the Villages website.

There is a position for a
GOLF SHOP SALES ASSOCIATE at TIERRA DEL SOL. The pay is $14 an hour.

I think that gate attendants make less than that. That is not a hard job but you are constantly busy. Busier than most waiters.

But we don’t tip them.

Let me be the first. Tip: keep your head down. 😉

[Velvet]

When I visit my gf in four star condo, the valet is there to take my car immediately. Greets me by name, smile and a wink (I'm only visiting). I go into the lobby while he calls my wife. Maybe I should have tipped him.?.

The HOA fees for the 2 bedroom condo are over $3500.00 per month, the tips for valet are included.

[asianthree]

I just checked the Villages website.

There is a position for a
GOLF SHOP SALES ASSOCIATE at TIERRA DEL SOL. The pay is $14 an hour.

I think that gate attendants make less than that. That is not a hard job but you are constantly busy. Busier than most waiters.

But we don’t tip them.

Gate attendants no walking or physical activity unless one considers pushing a button or holding a sign. Zero stress because nobody is going to get out of their car to complain. Busy??…. depends on the gate and if they actually get up or just press the button never leaving their chair.

Gate attendants don’t have to clean up your mess, deal with some obnoxious clients, food/hot coffee spill, and more slip and falls than one can count from food dropped/thrown on the floor.

But some find people who wait on your every want and need, still a lower class of human.

The only gate keeper that has ever been in danger was in Ghost Busters :1rotfl:

[Rainger99]

Minimum wage is $13/hour in Florida. Gate attendants work for Community Watch. Golf shop sales associates work for The Villages.

So we don’t tip people that make $1 above minimum wage but we tip people who make minimum wage??

[Rainger99]

Zero stress because nobody is going to get out of their car to complain.

If they make a mistake, someone could get hurt in a car/golfcart accident.

If a server makes a mistake, you get a steak medium instead of medium rare.

[Bill14564]

If they make a mistake, someone could get hurt in a car/golfcart accident.

If a server makes a mistake, you get a steak medium instead of medium rare.

If you want to tip the gate attendants, feel free. If you want to tip your airline pilot, feel free. No one is stop you from spending your money.

Neither of those positions are filled with the understanding that they will receive tips. Also, neither of those positions involve close interaction with the customer. Server positions on the other hand,…

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

So we don’t tip people that make $1 above minimum wage but we tip people who make minimum wage??

You're right. You're absolutely right in every way, that was the one and only point I was trying to make, and you nailed it 100% spot on. You should demand that every restaurant inform you, personally, of the wages of each server they have on staff so you can figure out how much to tip them, if at all. If they earn less than $1 over minimum wage, you should tip a minimum of $20. Even if you bought just coffee and a slice of cheesecake for $7.

And if they earn at least $1 over minimum wage, you should never ever tip them, ever.

If they earn exactly minimum wage, you should tip them exactly $10 per guest, plus an extra $20 for the table to kick over to the bus boy and hostess, even if you were a party of two and you each ordered just a cup of coffee and a donut for $5 per person.

How's that? Does that cover all the exceptions, and what-ifs, and how-abouts? Or do you want to continue?

[Rainger99]

You're right. You're absolutely right in every way, that was the one and only point I was trying to make, and you nailed it 100% spot on. You should demand that every restaurant inform you, personally, of the wages of each server they have on staff so you can figure out how much to tip them, if at all. If they earn less than $1 over minimum wage, you should tip a minimum of $20. Even if you bought just coffee and a slice of cheesecake for $7.

And if they earn at least $1 over minimum wage, you should never ever tip them, ever.

If they earn exactly minimum wage, you should tip them exactly $10 per guest, plus an extra $20 for the table to kick over to the bus boy and hostess, even if you were a party of two and you each ordered just a cup of coffee and a donut for $5 per person.

How's that? Does that cover all the exceptions, and what-ifs, and how-abouts? Or do you want to continue?

Or the restaurant could just pay everyone a minimum wage. Why is it that Europe can do it and the USA cannot do it?

If a restaurant paid waiters 2x or 3x the minimum wage, would you still tip?

[Bill14564]

Or the restaurant could just pay everyone a minimum wage. Why is it that Europe can do it and the USA cannot do it?

If a restaurant paid waiters 2x or 3x the minimum wage, would you still tip?

If tipping was still customary and the restaurant did not request that we did not tip then yes, I would still tip.

I have never, not once, asked a server what their hourly rate was.

[fdpaq0580]

I have never, not once, asked a server what their hourly rate was.

I wonder how we found out? I wonder why we should care? We don't worry about how much everyone else is making. Why are waitstaff the ones that we (general public) seem to view as so grossly abused and under paid and needy that we can't help but find excuses to gift them with money. Waitstaff! America's favorite charity. How much do you tip, or would that be virtue signaling.

[Bill14564]

I wonder how we found out? I wonder why we should care? We don't worry about how much everyone else is making. Why are waitstaff the ones that we (general public) seem to view as so grossly abused and under paid and needy that we can't help but find excuses to gift them with money. Waitstaff! America's favorite charity. How much do you tip, or would that be virtue signaling.

I’ve answered that at least once in this thread. In general, I start at 20% (easy to calculate) and adjust from there.

[asianthree]

If they make a mistake, someone could get hurt in a car/golfcart accident.

If a server makes a mistake, you get a steak medium instead of medium rare.

Two servers within local distance, in the past 6 months served food that was verified by kitchen staff prepared per specific instructions to a customer with allergies. Customers notified the server, verified again at delivery of food, server verified with kitchen twice. Customer died.

Have any idea how the server is coping, besides the constant nightmares of the person died right before their eyes, and nothing could save them.

Ever watch a person die from an allergic reaction. Death even if it’s not your fault as a bystander or customer, can linger in your mind for more time than many want to admit.

Servers witness chocking, of adult, more common children, And occasionally a death by allergic reaction.

My mom was Management for Bob Evans for 21 years. Opening new stores, staying 3+ months until next gig. Her chocking count 31, (23 children) not even as a server. Witnessing a make shift trach in a restaurant leaves lasting impressions, and knowledge that a standard pen can save a life.

Two deaths, both food allergy, unknown by the young adult.

[fdpaq0580]

Or the restaurant could just pay everyone a minimum wage. Why is it that Europe can do it and the USA cannot do it?

If a restaurant paid waiters 2x or 3x the minimum wage, would you still tip?

1. Europe isn't peopled by tip addicted, competitive virtue signalers trying to show how empathetic, kind and generous they are.

2. No! Absolutely not. The restaurant is their employer, not me. The restaurant withholds their taxes, I don't. I'm the customer, not the boss of the restaurant. It's not my responsibility to cover restaurant inability to afford capable staff. They can deduct employee costs, I can't. Can you?
By tipping we enable poor restaurant business practices and improve their bottom line, to our ultimate financial detriment. Tipping doesn't show how kind we are. Tipping just shows that we are gullible and dimwitted sheep.
Don't like tipping? Oh, you're Baaaa d.🐏🐑🐑🐑🐏🐑🐏

[fdpaq0580]

I’ve answered that at least once in this thread. In general, I start at 20% (easy to calculate) and adjust from there.

Me too. Doesn't mean I agree with it.

What's more "easy to calculate"? 0 (ZERO)

[bopat]

Assuming they were paying tax on tips before, a 15% tip would now be more like 10% for me to give.

[Bill14564]

Assuming they were paying tax on tips before, a 15% tip would now be more like 10% for me to give.

As requested before, please show how you got to that number.

My calculations show that the savings in taxes amount to less than 1% of the tipping amount (20%->19%, 15%->14%).

[fdpaq0580]

Assuming they were paying tax on tips before, a 15% tip would now be more like 10% for me to give.

Why not keep the 10 or 15 % and use it for your taxes and let others think about their own taxes?

[Normal]

There are many variables in the restaurant tipping:

For instance, no one tips at a Mac Donald’s or fast food establishment. Few tip for take out pizza. Tipping primarily is done in the sit down atmosphere of a restaurant (minus fast food restaurants). When a waiter or waitress is involved we tip.

I just wonder why a waitress who works her rear off for a couple bucks at the diner for a tip is less deserving than a waitress at say the BoneFish Grill or Brazil Steakhouse who picks up at least 10-20 dollars from every table when applying half the effort? The tipping system we have is unjust.

In conclusion for certainty, no all restaurant servers are traditionally tipped. The tipping system isn’t fair or impartial. The higher the price of a meal, the more the wait staff is tipped. No wonder the rest of the world doesn’t follow suit.

[fdpaq0580]

There are many variables in the restaurant tipping:

For instance, no one tips at a Mac Donald’s or fast food establishment. Few tip for take out pizza. Tipping primarily is done in the sit down atmosphere of a restaurant (minus fast food restaurants). When a waiter or waitress is involved we tip.

I just wonder why a waitress who works her rear off for a couple bucks at the diner for a tip is less deserving than a waitress at say the BoneFish Grill or Brazil Steakhouse who picks up at least 10-20 dollars from every table when applying half the effort? The tipping system we have is unjust.

Wonder no more! The answe is, she's not! And, more accurately the wait person at the big bucks place isn't any more deserving than the person at the diner. They are doing the same work. That is one aspect of the tip scam. Another is you are expected to tip a % of your bill. Order a glass of water = no tip. Order a $20 double good scotch ($40) = (20%) $8.00 for less work, smaller glas and no ice or lemon. Yeah, that's fair!

[Velvet]

Wonder no more! The answe is, she's not! And, more accurately the wait person at the big bucks place isn't any more deserving than the person at the diner. They are doing the same work. That is one aspect of the tip scam. Another is you are expected to tip a % of your bill. Order a glass of water = no tip. Order a $20 double good scotch ($40) = (20%) $8.00 for less work, smaller glas and no ice or lemon. Yeah, that's fair!

I guess the thinking might be, if you can afford a more expensive meal (or drink) you can afford a more expensive tip. Tipping then, is not really for service.

[Rainger99]

Two servers within local distance, in the past 6 months served food that was verified by kitchen staff prepared per specific instructions to a customer with allergies. Customers notified the server, verified again at delivery of food, server verified with kitchen twice. Customer died.

Have any idea how the server is coping, besides the constant nightmares of the person died right before their eyes, and nothing could save them.

Ever watch a person die from an allergic reaction. Death even if it’s not your fault as a bystander or customer, can linger in your mind for more time than many want to admit.

Servers witness chocking, of adult, more common children, And occasionally a death by allergic reaction.

My mom was Management for Bob Evans for 21 years. Opening new stores, staying 3+ months until next gig. Her chocking count 31, (23 children) not even as a server. Witnessing a make shift trach in a restaurant leaves lasting impressions, and knowledge that a standard pen can save a life.

Two deaths, both food allergy, unknown by the young adult.

Were these caused by mistakes by the waiter?

[Rainger99]

1. Europe isn't peopled by tip addicted, competitive virtue signalers trying to show how empathetic, kind and generous they are.


Michael Lynn is a professor at Cornell and is one of the leading experts on tipping. He has published more than 50 articles on tipping.

He says “I think that there are five basic motives for tipping.

1. Some people tip to show off.

2. Some people tip to help the server, to supplement their income and make them happy.

3. Some people tip to get future service.

4. And then other people tip to avoid disapproval: You don't want the server to think badly of you.

5. And some people tip out of a sense of duty.

And if you are interested in reading any of his articles, check this out.

My website (http://www.tippingresearch.com/most_recent_tipping_papers)

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Or the restaurant could just pay everyone a minimum wage. Why is it that Europe can do it and the USA cannot do it?

If a restaurant paid waiters 2x or 3x the minimum wage, would you still tip?

If you demanded to know how much your server was getting paid, would the manager let you eat there at all or would he kick you out for minding someone else's business?

[fdpaq0580]

I guess the thinking might be, if you can afford a more expensive meal (or drink) you can afford a more expensive tip. Tipping then, is not really for service.

Car wash. Different prices based on the value of the car you drive? Same principle. Price your meal based on the clothes you chose to wear? Same principle.
If tipping isn't really for service, what IS is it for?? (hint ; it serves the same purpose as a "thank you" card you sent to Grandma for the Christmas sweater she sent you as a child.)

[fdpaq0580]

If you demanded to know how much your server was getting paid, would the manager let you eat there at all or would he kick you out for minding someone else's business?

RIGHT! None of our flipping business. So what makes you believe you need to tip?

[Bill14564]

Car wash. Different prices based on the value of the car you drive? Same principle. Price your meal based on the clothes you chose to wear? Same principle.
If tipping isn't really for service, what IS is it for?? (hint ; it serves the same purpose as a "thank you" card you sent to Grandma for the Christmas sweater she sent you as a child.)

You are one of the few who continues to insist tipping is not for the service received.

Different prices based on the car I drive? Yes, different car wash choices based on the value I put on the car I drive and the service I expect from the car wash. I would make a different choice for my new Audi than I would for my ten year old Toyota and I would expect to pay different prices.

Price a meal based on the clothes you wear? Not the same at all. Though I might expect to pay more for the nicer clothes than for the more casual clothes.

At a more expensive restaurant I expect a higher quality of food as well as a higher quality of service. I expect the chef has had more training or more experience and therefore deserves more compensation. I expect the servers to have more training or more experience and therefore deserve a higher compensation. I may be more critical in my tipping decision at the more expensive restaurant due to those expectations.

[Rainger99]

I expect the servers to have more training or more experience and therefore deserve a higher compensation.

How much training do you think waiters and waitresses get? My niece worked at a waitress last summer. The first couple of hours she followed a more experienced waitress around but she was serving customers the first day. It isn't like they have to operate a cash register.

[fdpaq0580]

Michael Lynn is a professor at Cornell and is one of the leading experts on tipping. He has published more than 50 articles on tipping.

He says “I think that there are five basic motives for tipping.

1. Some people tip to show off.

2. Some people tip to help the server, to supplement their income and make them happy.

3. Some people tip to get future service.

4. And then other people tip to avoid disapproval: You don't want the server to think badly of you.

5. And some people tip out of a sense of duty.

And if you are interested in reading any of his articles, check this out.

My website (http://www.tippingresearch.com/most_recent_tipping_papers)

Thank you.
I suspect that the grand majority fall under #4, but when asked they use #2 as their reason because they don't want to be thought badly of by their associates. Sounds more altruistic, kind, generous.
In all cases it is mental manipulation of a customers mental situation. Beggers use it when they tug at your heartstrings with signs that say "homeless, single mom, veteran, disabled.
The good professor forgot #6. We are sheep, cattle, pack animals. We want to fit in. We have been Conditioned to follow the "custom" (scam) and automatically unload a significant percentage of the bill and add it to our payment and mentally justify it, "he/she was really good". Then, emotionally (and financially) unburdened we can head back to our respective barns feeling good about ourselves.
Baaaa. Mooo. That waiter was great! 😶😶😶

[fdpaq0580]

You are one of the few who continues to insist tipping is not for the service received.

Different prices based on the car I drive? Yes, different car wash choices based on the value I put on the car I drive and the service I expect from the car wash. I would make a different choice for my new Audi than I would for my ten year old Toyota and I would expect to pay different prices.

Price a meal based on the clothes you wear? Not the same at all. Though I might expect to pay more for the nicer clothes than for the more casual clothes.

At a more expensive restaurant I expect a higher quality of food as well as a higher quality of service. I expect the chef has had more training or more experience and therefore deserves more compensation. I expect the servers to have more training or more experience and therefore deserve a higher compensation. I may be more critical in my tipping decision at the more expensive restaurant due to those expectations.

🫥😏🤭

[Skip]

Wow! So far 23 pages on this one topic. We could write a book.
Oh, maybe, we are.

Skip

[Velvet]

Michael Lynn is a professor at Cornell and is one of the leading experts on tipping. He has published more than 50 articles on tipping.

He says “I think that there are five basic motives for tipping.

1. Some people tip to show off.

2. Some people tip to help the server, to supplement their income and make them happy.

3. Some people tip to get future service.

4. And then other people tip to avoid disapproval: You don't want the server to think badly of you.

5. And some people tip out of a sense of duty.

And if you are interested in reading any of his articles, check this out.

My website (http://www.tippingresearch.com/most_recent_tipping_papers)

And some people tip mostly because it is customary.

[fdpaq0580]

Wow! So far 23 pages on this one topic. We could write a book.
Oh, maybe, we are.

Skip

Anyone could and many, even professors, have. Just pick a basic premise and go for it.
Tipping. What do you think of it? Pro or con? Good or bad? Harmful or helpful? Personally, I believe it is ultimately harmful. Arbitrary, inflationary, manipulative, unfair across the industry, psychological/emotional blackmail, etc.
Oh, just because I do it doesn’t mean I don't recognize it for what it is. A very successful scam that we (yes! Me too) all participate in and support, justify and defend. OK, I don't justify or defend it. The rest of the world can get along without it, so could we.

[fdpaq0580]

And some people tip mostly because it is customary.

That comes in under #5. "Duty" post 331

[Velvet]

That comes in under #5. "Duty" post 331

I suppose, but I don’t feel “duty” personally. I tip or don’t tip easily, depends on what service I received. And I get annoyed if a machine sets expectations, I always put in zero % and leave a cash tip. But I only tip in countries where it is customary, fitting in, like wearing golf clothes to go golfing. “When in Rome ….”

[fdpaq0580]

Tips aren't supposed to be part of a server's paycheck from their employer. They're supposed to be in ADDITION to it. As a "thank you" from the customer directly, for doing a good (or better) job. There are people with extreme views in either direction:

People who think it's good to give at least 20%, and up to 40% of their tab, usually because they want to show off how generous they are. Those are the people who think they can buy their way into heaven.

People who think that they shouldn't tip at all, because the boss is paying the employee, and the employee is owed nothing by the customer. Those are the people who don't think they have to earn their place in heaven.

And then the people in the middle like me: old-fashioned. Traditional. If service is adequate, no complaints but nothing spectacular, I tip 15%. If service is good, but not great, they get 18%. If service is outstanding, they get 20%, plus one penny, plus a compliment to the manager to let them know their employee was responsible for maintaining high standards for their restaurant. If service was BAD, they get no tip, and a complaint to the manager.

I tip curb-side folks if they have to come out in the rain. I toss the change into the tip jar when I buy something at a take-out joint that has one - sometimes. Those are people who are already earning minimum wage or better, they are not "tipped employees."

Your third paragraph made me laugh. If tipping is required to earn my place in Heaven, I should have a pretty nice place because I do it even though I know it's it's BS.
Just curious, how come when Jesus said " give unto Ceasar that which belongs to Ceasar, and give unto God that which belongs to God", he didn't add " and make sure you tip the waitress if you hope to get into Heaven"? 🤭🫠

[retiredguy123]

I always use cash in a restaurant and I always provide exact change. So, no one actually knows how much I tip, except the server. I also carry a lot of twenty, ten, five, and two dollar bills in my wallet. No ones. By the way, the only way to get two dollar bills is to order them from the bank.

[fdpaq0580]

I always use cash in a restaurant and I always provide exact change. So, no one actually knows how much I tip, except the server. I also carry a lot of twenty, ten, five, and two dollar bills in my wallet. No ones. But the way, the only way to get two dollar bills is to order them from the bank.

Excellent! But what if the tip is $8.00. Round up or down? I know! None of my business. 😄😄😄

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

RIGHT! None of our flipping business. So what makes you believe you need to tip?

Because that's how I was raised. Because I used to be a waitress and know how lousy of a job it can be. Because restaurant employers are ALLOWED to pay below the regular minimum wage, and expect wait staff to earn their "commission" paid directly by the customer.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Your third paragraph made me laugh. If tipping is required to earn my place in Heaven, I should have a pretty nice place because I do it even though I know it's it's BS.
Just curious, how come when Jesus said " give unto Ceasar that which belongs to Ceasar, and give unto God that which belongs to God", he didn't add " and make sure you tip the waitress if you hope to get into Heaven"? 🤭🫠

Jesus is fiction. Caesar is what I sometimes ask my server, who I tip, as the salad with my entree.

[fdpaq0580]

Because that's how I was raised. Because I used to be a waitress and know how lousy of a job it can be. Because restaurant employers are ALLOWED to pay below the regular minimum wage, and expect wait staff to earn their "commission" paid directly by the customer.

A lot of jobs cab be lousy. And you should realize more than most that it is the employers who use this scam to gouge customers while coming and controlling employees. A tip is a gratuity or gift of gratitude. It is NOT and was never intended as a "commission", which is a sales bonus the employer[B] pays, out of the profit from the sale. Not paying proper competition for work done and passing that responsibility onto a third party, the customer, is (IMHO) irresponsible, unethical, and should be illegal. Unfortunately, the (IMHO) twisted little weasel restaunteurs have recruited many of the servers by allowing tipping to turn into a cash cow which they can take advantage of. Employers in many establishments monitor tips and expect portions to also support other workers. Busses, food runners (the person that appear out of nowhere with your food), and who knows how many others. The business model from Hell.
I go to buy ... a car. I talk to many people and buy a car. I pay for the car and drive away. The business pays it's employees. Not me. The business pays the [B]bonus! NOT ME.

[Velvet]

Jesus is fiction. Caesar is what I sometimes ask my server, who I tip, as the salad with my entree.

I understand that one can only know what has been revealed to one, but no, Jesus is not fiction. There are a lot of historic and archeological indications that there was such a person. As to where exactly he is right now, well there are various thoughts but generally most Christians believe he is at the right hand of the Father.
But I believe I am not saying something new to you.

[Bill14564]

A lot of jobs cab be lousy. And you should realize more than most that it is the employers who use this scam to gouge customers while coming and controlling employees. A tip is a gratuity or gift of gratitude. It is NOT and was never intended as a "commission", which is a sales bonus the employer[B] pays, out of the profit from the sale. Not paying proper competition for work done and passing that responsibility onto a third party, the customer, is (IMHO) irresponsible, unethical, and should be illegal. Unfortunately, the (IMHO) twisted little weasel restaunteurs have recruited many of the servers by allowing tipping to turn into a cash cow which they can take advantage of. Employers in many establishments monitor tips and expect portions to also support other workers. Busses, food runners (the person that appear out of nowhere with your food), and who knows how many others. The business model from Hell.
I go to buy ... a car. I talk to many people and buy a car. I pay for the car and drive away. The business pays it's employees. Not me. The business pays the [B]bonus! NOT ME.

And AGAIN, the solution is very, very simple. When you go to a restaurant that typically accepts tips (not Chipotle or McD's) add 20% to the total and let the business figure out who gets it. As it is, you accuse the business of taking your tip and distributing it in some unknown way... but that is exactly what your car dealer does.

So treat the restaurant like somewhat like your car dealer: Even though the business doesn't take it upon itself to include it, leave 20% more than the bill and let the business distribute it as it chooses.

[retiredguy123]

And AGAIN, the solution is very, very simple. When you go to a restaurant that typically accepts tips (not Chipotle or McD's) add 20% to the total and let the business figure out who gets it. As it is, you accuse the business of taking your tip and distributing it in some unknown way... but that is exactly what your car dealer does.

So treat the restaurant like somewhat like your car dealer: Even though the business doesn't take it upon itself to include it, leave 20% more than the bill and let the business distribute it as it chooses.
The difference is that, legally, any tip you leave is the property of the server. If the restaurant owner does anything else with it, they are violating the law.

[Bill14564]

The difference is that, legally, any tip you leave is the property of the server. If the restaurant owner does anything else with it, they are violating the law.

Not just the server but can't include management. There are rules....


But that isn't the point. The point is the user I commented to didn't want to feel obligated or coerced to tip. He wanted the same feeling he gets at a car dealership. So ok, add the 20% the business neglected to include and leave it at that.

[retiredguy123]

Not just the server but can't include management. There are rules....


But that isn't the point. The point is the user I commented to didn't want to feel obligated or coerced to tip. He wanted the same feeling he gets at a car dealership. So ok, add the 20% the business neglected to include and leave it at that.
Just to clarify, some people think tips can be pooled and shared with the kitchen staff. This is not true. If tips are pooled, they can only be shared with other servers or other "tipped" employees. Tipped employees are treated differently from non-tipped employees for income tax purposes.

[fdpaq0580]

Just to clarify, some people think tips can be pooled and shared with the kitchen staff. This is not true. If tips are pooled, they can only be shared with other servers or other "tipped" employees. Tipped employees are treated differently from non-tipped employees for income tax purposes.

Are you alluding to possible unreported income?
I wonder, if a tip is "income: ie wage or salary? Or is a tip actually a "gratuity" or gift, legally speaking. Reporting income is, basically required. Not so with gifts up to a certain amount. 2,000 gift at @ $30.00 each. Reported separately, if at all, I would assumel.🫠

[retiredguy123]

Are you alluding to possible unreported income?
I wonder, if a tip is "income: ie wage or salary? Or is a tip actually a "gratuity" or gift, legally speaking. Reporting income is, basically required. Not so with gifts up to a certain amount. 2,000 gift at @ $30.00 each. Reported separately, if at all, I would assumel.🫠
The IRS has already determined that tip income received by servers in restaurants is taxable income. It is not a gift. They have established special tax reporting procedures for this income. Before the new 2025 law, restaurants were required to provide a W-2 form to their servers showing taxable tip income equal to 8 percent of the gross sales of the restaurant. The servers can either pay tax on this amount or they can provide detailed records to prove that their tip income for the year was less than the 8 percent, and be subject to an IRS audit. That is one reason why tipped employees cannot be required to share their tip income with non-tipped employees.

[fdpaq0580]

Not just the server but can't include management. There are rules....


But that isn't the point. The point is the user I commented to didn't want to feel obligated or coerced to tip. He wanted the same feeling he gets at a car dealership. So ok, add the 20% the business neglected to include and leave it at that.

At the auto seller the price is negotiated before I am given the keys and the money changes hands. No "ups", no "expectations, implied or otherwise is placed on me. In the restaurant, I make my selection (like the dealer). I recieve it and , hopefully, enjoy it (unlike the dealer). I pay the bill (price of meal + tax (like at the dealer). What? Did I forget something? The server/sales person? Oh, the tip/bonus for bringing the car/food out and the taste test drive, showing me the selections/options and ensuring I like my choice. What? No, I didn't need to negotiate with the manager as price and tax was clearly posted for all to see. Bonusgratuitytip for sales person/server. The business didn'tthink to factor in the cost of service? Sounds like poor planning. A recipe for failure. WHat shall we do? Guess we will have to close ... unless we can con the rubes into paying for our service out off their pockets and we keep our costs down and lower tax liability. Great scam, I mean scheme. Frame it as a noble act of generosity! They'll eat it up.

[fdpaq0580]

And AGAIN, the solution is very, very simple. When you go to a restaurant that typically accepts tips (not Chipotle or McD's) add 20% to the total and let the business figure out who gets it. As it is, you accuse the business of taking your tip and distributing it in some unknown way... but that is exactly what your car dealer does.

So treat the restaurant like somewhat like your car dealer: Even though the business doesn't take it upon itself to include it, leave 20% more than the bill and let the business distribute it as it chooses.

That's NOT a solution. That is the victim Appling their own bandaid when what is needed is complete restructuring.

[Bill14564]

That's NOT a solution. That is the victim Appling their own bandaid when what is needed is complete restructuring.

///

[Normal]

The American practice of tipping can be good for some here in the states, but maybe restaurant owners need to do something differently and get in line with the rest of the globe. They need to just pay waitresses what the rest of the staff is paid and be done with it. European restaurants adapt by not staying open all day with waiters hanging around.

[fdpaq0580]

I understand that one can only know what has been revealed to one, but no, Jesus is not fiction. There are a lot of historic and archeological indications that there was such a person. As to where exactly he is right now, well there are various thoughts but generally most Christians believe he is at the right hand of the Father.
But I believe I am not saying something new to you.

Indication? Anecdotal tales and stories. I will wait for definitive scientific proof.
"I believe", you said. That is fine. I say, I am not yet convinced of his existence or of his divinity. But that is for a discussion on philosophy.

[fdpaq0580]

The American practice of tipping can be good for some here in the states, but maybe restaurant owners need to do something differently and get in line with the rest of the globe. They need to just pay waitresses what the rest of the staff is paid and be done with it. European restaurants adapt by not staying open all day with waiters hanging around.

Well said.

[firewalkerb3]

That’s a fact, and we don’t except one. Many departments in Florida a 100% volunteer.

[fdpaq0580]

That’s a fact, and we don’t except one. Many departments in Florida a 100% volunteer.

What? 😶🤔