Tipping in restaurants

[stratmax]

Have you noticed the food prices in restaurants have gone up dramatically. I'm not sure everybody knows this but last fall, 2024. Florida enacted a law mandating restaurants pay a base wage of $9.98 to their wait staff and a guarantee of $13/hour when combined with the tips.The law gave restaurants time to change their menu prices so they could pay the base wage.
So, why are we continuing to pay 20% tip when there is already a built in tip in the menu prices?
NOTE: the base wage is also going to go up to $10.98 this fall

[Bill14564]

Have you noticed the food prices in restaurants have gone up dramatically. I'm not sure everybody knows this but last fall, 2024. Florida enacted a law mandating restaurants pay a base wage of $9.98 to their wait staff and a guarantee of $13/hour when combined with the tips.The law gave restaurants time to change their menu prices so they could pay the base wage.
So, why are we continuing to pay 20% tip when there is already a built in tip in the menu prices?
NOTE: the base wage is also going to go up to $10.98 this fall

In what way is a tip built into the menu prices? The minimum wage was increased but there is still a lower tipped minimum wage in anticipation of the servers receiving tips in addition.

When there is no longer a tipped minimum wage and all employees receive the same minimum wage then I will reconsider tipping.

[Sensei]

Great information. Clearly, that additional $3.02 will more than compensate for any tips any server could gain in an hour. No more tipping necessary at all!

[Tvflguy]

I have zero doubt that, when the "No tax on Tips" is passed and active... that restaurants will decrease prices. So workers will have more $$$ in their pockets, restaurants will lower their wages, and costs - then pass that on to the consumer...

....sure

recently went to TooJays with a $15 off $40. Their prices are much higher than before. But the coupon made it nice. Other than the terrible service in BW location. One server for the entire restaurant. slow. Couldn't blame her (April) - she was running her butt off. Apparently the other server (who was there when we arrived) left - leaving April to cover 12 tables. We did leave a nice tip for her.

[retiredguy123]

In what way is a tip built into the menu prices? The minimum wage was increased but there is still a lower tipped minimum wage in anticipation of the servers receiving tips in addition.

When there is no longer a tipped minimum wage and all employees receive the same minimum wage then I will reconsider tipping.
To clarify, the server receives at least $13 per hour, even if they receive no tips. The $13 is the minimum wage, and if the server receives no tips, the restaurant is required to make up the difference, but the server still receives $13 per hour. The reason for the $3.02 difference is that, if the server receives at least $3.02 per hour in tips, the restaurant does not need to make up the difference.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Tips aren't supposed to be part of a server's paycheck from their employer. They're supposed to be in ADDITION to it. As a "thank you" from the customer directly, for doing a good (or better) job. There are people with extreme views in either direction:

People who think it's good to give at least 20%, and up to 40% of their tab, usually because they want to show off how generous they are. Those are the people who think they can buy their way into heaven.

People who think that they shouldn't tip at all, because the boss is paying the employee, and the employee is owed nothing by the customer. Those are the people who don't think they have to earn their place in heaven.

And then the people in the middle like me: old-fashioned. Traditional. If service is adequate, no complaints but nothing spectacular, I tip 15%. If service is good, but not great, they get 18%. If service is outstanding, they get 20%, plus one penny, plus a compliment to the manager to let them know their employee was responsible for maintaining high standards for their restaurant. If service was BAD, they get no tip, and a complaint to the manager.

I tip curb-side folks if they have to come out in the rain. I toss the change into the tip jar when I buy something at a take-out joint that has one - sometimes. Those are people who are already earning minimum wage or better, they are not "tipped employees."

[snbrafford]

In what way is a tip built into the menu prices? The minimum wage was increased but there is still a lower tipped minimum wage in anticipation of the servers receiving tips in addition.

When there is no longer a tipped minimum wage and all employees receive the same minimum wage then I will reconsider tipping.

My opinion is that tipping is for the good service of the wait staff - not "my" attempt to pay their wage. Wages and menu prices will adjust based upon market conditions and is not my concern - I can choose to pay the menu price or not. However, I am careful not to calculate my tip on the bill total which includes tax, only calculate on the total before tax. I tend to tip a smaller percentage at high dollar restaurants If you look at a $70 bill and tip 20% - that's $14. If you then consider that a server can probably take care of 4 tables in an hour - that's a total tip amount of $56 - not too bad.

[Spartan86]

Edited

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

And then there’s people like me who know I can’t buy my way into heaven, but tip 20% or more anyway because I am blessed to have it, can’t take it with me and like to share it with hard working people that treat me great! Oh, and whenever possible I tip in cash.

When wait staff is overpaid, this sends a message to the manager that the manager doesn't have to pay them what they're worth because the manager will instead rely on customers to pay it.

Then you end up with underpaid wait staff and high turn-around, who get angry when they're not overtipped, because their manager refuses to pay them what they're worth.

I know this because I've worked in restaurants that operated like that. As a former server, I expect my boss to pay me a fair wage, whether I get tipped or not. If I do a BAD job, I expect to be fired. If I do my job, or better than my job requirement, then I expect my boss to pay me my worth, and allow those tips to be a bonus - and not my expected pay.

Every person who overtips their server is actually hurting them, and giving their boss an excuse to not pay them well.

Also - always pay your tip in CASH.

[stratmax]

That is very true.

[stratmax]

In what way is a tip built into the menu prices? The minimum wage was increased but there is still a lower tipped minimum wage in anticipation of the servers receiving tips in addition.

When there is no longer a tipped minimum wage and all employees receive the same minimum wage then I will reconsider tipping.

Because the restaurant now has to pay the server a minimum of $9.98 instead of the $2.13/hr they've increased the menu prices.
This being the case, I've reduced the amount that I'm now tipping. What irritates me is they still have the 18, 20, 25% tip suggestions at the bottom of the receipt.

[justjim]

Great information. Clearly, that additional $3.02 will more than compensate for any tips any server could gain in an hour. No more tipping necessary at all!

Wow! This doesn’t mean that at all. I assume you “jest”? Some of us might have a wife/husband who worked their way through college working in
a restaurant. Maybe an Aunt who only received S.S.and she supplemented income by waiting on tables. I could go on but by now you can see where I’m going. “Money is like manure, it does little good unless it’s spread around.” Anonymous

[Pondboy]

I honestly don’t know how people can survive on $13 an hour.

And to have to deal with the “General Public” , no thank you! You couldn’t pay me enough!

Ya’ll ain’t right !

[Bill14564]

Because the restaurant now has to pay the server a minimum of $9.98 instead of the $2.13/hr they've increased the menu prices.
This being the case, I've reduced the amount that I'm now tipping. What irritates me is they still have the 18, 20, 25% tip suggestions at the bottom of the receipt.

If the rent goes up and the owner has to increase prices then you'll tip more.
If the price of food goes up and the owner has to increase prices then you'll tip more.
If the cooks get a raise and the owner has to increase prices then you'll tip more.
If the owner wants to go on another cruise and he has to increase prices then you'll tip more.

But if the owner has to increase prices so that the lowest paid employee can have an increase equivalent to about one month's rent ($1/hour) then that's a bridge too far and you will penalize the employee. Got it.

Fortunately, not everyone will share that opinion. Regrettably, some will.

[Whatnext]

I worked as a first responder for many years. No one ever tipped us for saving their lives.

[Bill14564]

I worked as a first responder for many years. No one ever tipped us for saving their lives.

What city did you work in where first responders were paid less than minimum wage with the understanding that tipping for their services was customary?

[Velvet]

I, as always, tip according to service received. The menu prices and wages are not set by me. I just decide if I want to come in and eat in the first place. The owner determines the menu prices, and the service determines the tip. Period.

[jimhoward]

For what its worth, servers in Villages restaurants make a lot more than $13/hour. More like $30. It is usual for a server working a double shift (lunch and dinner, 11-3, hour break, 4-9) to bring home $250 - $300/day in tips alone after paying out hosts and bussers. The hourly wage is on top of that. Some experienced servers that can handle more tables make more than that.

My data comes from two daughters who work at two different villages restaurants.



.

[fdpaq0580]

What city did you work in where first responders were paid less than minimum wage with the understanding that tipping for their services was customary?

I believe you missed the point entirely. Pay people properly for the work they do and a verbal "Thank you" (acknowledgement and appreciation) should be all that is expected. Giving people money for doing their job (tipping) is demeaning. Both to the server and the customer. Food service is honorable work and deserves fair payment, not "tips" like an organ grinders monkey tipping his hat for coins. It's a bribe. It's a scam.

[Bill14564]

I believe you missed the point entirely. Pay people properly for the work they do and a verbal "Thank you" (acknowledgement and appreciation) should be all that is expected. Giving people money for doing their job (tipping) is demeaning. Both to the server and the customer. Food service is honorable work and deserves fair payment, not "tips" like an organ grinders monkey tipping his hat for coins. It's a bribe. It's a scam.

I don’t think I missed the point at all.

But as for missing a point…. What you write sounds nice (in an insulting kind of way) but it doesn’t reflect today's reality. Tipping may be a bribe and tipping may be a scam but tipping is customary in the US and tipping often provides a major part of a server’s income.

[dougjb]

A person working full time hours at about $10 per hour is earning approximately $20,000 per year.

If you think you could survive on that annual pay, then don't tip at all. Otherwise, cough up some tip money.

Personally, I have never understood the concept of tips being used to supplement a worker's pay. No other industry suggests I pay extra for the businesses work force. Restaurants just have awful business plans if they have to rely upon the largesse of their patrons (which they do).

[fdpaq0580]

A person working full time hours at about $10 per hour is earning approximately $20,000 per year.

If you think you could survive on that annual pay, then don't tip at all. Otherwise, cough up some tip money.

Personally, I have never understood the concept of tips being used to supplement a worker's pay. No other industry suggests I pay extra for the businesses work force. Restaurants just have awful business plans if they have to rely upon the largesse of their patrons (which they do).

Well said.

[fdpaq0580]

I don’t think I missed the point at all.

But as for missing a point…. What you write sounds nice (in an insulting kind of way) but it doesn’t reflect today's reality. Tipping may be a bribe and tipping may be a scam but tipping is customary in the US and tipping often provides a major part of a server’s income.

Sorry, I think you did.
The expression used to describe how I view tipping, "in an insulting kind of way", is a reflection of how I feel everytime I am emotionally blackmailed into participating in this caste system practice of rewarding the menials/servants for performing some service out of the goodness of their hearts, or out of fear of rebuke. Waitstaff are very important to restaurants and deserve proper pay based on the difficult and diverse aspects of their jobs, not basesed on the price of the item the customer choice of food. As said in an earlier post, weird business model.

[shaw8700@outlook.com]

What happened to 15% for a tip? They have a built-in system of getting more money - when restaurants raise their prices the tip is raised too. But really I don’t like tipping. For example, we just had a mini-split put in our garage. The guy worked until 8 p.m. Should we have given him a tip? How much?

The idea that some people get tipped and others don’t is bizarre.

[JMintzer]

A person working full time hours at about $10 per hour is earning approximately $20,000 per year.

If you think you could survive on that annual pay, then don't tip at all. Otherwise, cough up some tip money.

Personally, I have never understood the concept of tips being used to supplement a worker's pay. No other industry suggests I pay extra for the businesses work force. Restaurants just have awful business plans if they have to rely upon the largesse of their patrons (which they do).

And most servers don't work 8 hour shifts, 5 days a week...

[JMintzer]

What happened to 15% for a tip? They have a built-in system of getting more money - when restaurants raise their prices the tip is raised too. But really I don’t like tipping. For example, we just had a mini-split put in our garage. The guy worked until 8 p.m. Should we have given him a tip? How much?

The idea that some people get tipped and others don’t is bizarre.

I would wager his hourly rate was just a bit higher than that of a server...

[JMintzer]

Tips aren't supposed to be part of a server's paycheck from their employer. They're supposed to be in ADDITION to it. As a "thank you" from the customer directly, for doing a good (or better) job. There are people with extreme views in either direction:

People who think it's good to give at least 20%, and up to 40% of their tab, usually because they want to show off how generous they are. Those are the people who think they can buy their way into heaven.

People who think that they shouldn't tip at all, because the boss is paying the employee, and the employee is owed nothing by the customer. Those are the people who don't think they have to earn their place in heaven.

And then the people in the middle like me: old-fashioned. Traditional. If service is adequate, no complaints but nothing spectacular, I tip 15%. If service is good, but not great, they get 18%. If service is outstanding, they get 20%, plus one penny, plus a compliment to the manager to let them know their employee was responsible for maintaining high standards for their restaurant. If service was BAD, they get no tip, and a complaint to the manager.

I tip curb-side folks if they have to come out in the rain. I toss the change into the tip jar when I buy something at a take-out joint that has one - sometimes. Those are people who are already earning minimum wage or better, they are not "tipped employees."

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

When the wife and I eat out, exactly who am I trying to impress when tipping?

The server? Someone I'll probably never see again or have them remember me that next time I dine there?

I've been lucky enough to have made a good living for the last 40 years. I have no problem sharing some of that. During Covid, I tipped like Ray Liotta in Goodfellas... Why? Because I could. And because those I tipped were having a hard time making ends meet due to Covid restrictions.

Oh, and I don't believe in heaven (just like you don't)...

[fdpaq0580]

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

When the wife and I eat out, exactly who am I trying to impress when tipping?

The server? Someone I'll probably never see again or have them remember me that next time I dine there?

I've been lucky enough to have made a good living for the last 40 years. I have no problem sharing some of that. During Covid, I tipped like Ray Liotta in Goodfellas... Why? Because I could. And because those I tipped were having a hard time making ends meet due to Covid restrictions.

Oh, and I don't believe in heaven (just like you don't)...

Like this post! Wouldn't it be nice if if the ones you have so generously helped support didn't need the tip money because they were being paid properly by the business that values their employees.

[JMintzer]

Like this post! Wouldn't it be nice if if the ones you have so generously helped support didn't need the tip money because they were being paid properly by the business that values their employees.

That's a completely different discussion... But sure. Why not...

[asianthree]

Great information. Clearly, that additional $3.02 will more than compensate for any tips any server could gain in an hour. No more tipping necessary at all!

So wait staff serves 5-10 tables in an hour, and you believe they only deserve $3. I am so hopeful that you are less than 1% who deserves to eat out, yet no matter how well the service was…stiffing the waitstaff is appropriate. Because that $3 an hour built in tip would equate to .30 per table.

I know people under tipped in TV, but that basically your theory tells the waitstaff they are useless and undeserving.

[asianthree]

I worked as a first responder for many years. No one ever tipped us for saving their lives.

In 40 plus years after countless 13 hours of trauma surgery, not at any time did anyone in the room think they deserved a tip, for saving an infant, child, or adult.

We always thanked everyone in the room for their dedicated work, and sometimes a nod to what ever higher being you believed. We believed it was a team effort no matter the outcome. The hard moments always came in the waiting room full of family members.

[Number 10 GI]

I have watched ignorant, arrogant and entitled people treat wait staff so poorly that for no amount of money would I do that type of work. Not only do they have to wait tables they also have to clean the mess up after the customer leaves. I watched a family make such a mess at their table, it took 3 servers 10 minutes to clean up after the pigs.
I once worked in retail for a, thank God, brief time and I made the decision that I would only work that kind of job if I was starving.
I know in many other countries the tip is included in the meal price and in the past, it was usually 15%. If you receive terrible service, you still pay a 15% gratuity. With our system you can let the server know their performance was subpar by reducing the tip amount. It doesn't matter what system is used, you are going to pay a gratuity.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

For what its worth, servers in Villages restaurants make a lot more than $13/hour. More like $30. It is usual for a server working a double shift (lunch and dinner, 11-3, hour break, 4-9) to bring home $250 - $300/day in tips alone after paying out hosts and bussers. The hourly wage is on top of that. Some experienced servers that can handle more tables make more than that.

My data comes from two daughters who work at two different villages restaurants.

.

Tell that to the people who used to work at Gator's Dockside. They got the "tipped employee" minimum (which was lower than the regular minimum). All tips were pooled for each shift, and the cooks and host got a share of the pool even though cooks and host were both paid the regular minimum.

Sometimes, servers would go home with just minimum wage, because another server might have earned NO tip at all, but they'd get an equal share of the tip pool. A bad server might not last long, but however long they did last, affected the pay of everyone else on the shift.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

What happened to 15% for a tip? They have a built-in system of getting more money - when restaurants raise their prices the tip is raised too. But really I don’t like tipping. For example, we just had a mini-split put in our garage. The guy worked until 8 p.m. Should we have given him a tip? How much?

The idea that some people get tipped and others don’t is bizarre.

You can if you want to, but they aren't "tipped employees." It's an actual category in the Federal Labor Department laws, and in every state that has a labor department (Florida does not have a labor department).

Tipped employees can be paid less than minimum wage, as long as their total pay including tips comes to minimum wage or higher.

So if minimum wage is $15/hour - and tipped minimum is $10/hour...

Then if you work your shift and combine your tips for the shift with your $10/hour pay, and it comes to only $13/hour total...then your boss has to kick in the other $2/hour, for a total of $12/hour.

If you work your shift and the combined total comes to $15/hour, then your boss only has to pay you that $10/hour.

If you work your shift and the combined total comes to $50/hour, then your boss still has to pay you that $10/hour.

[Rainger99]

A lot of people see it as out of control.

chevron-right (https://foxbaltimore.com/news/nation-world/many-americans-see-tipping-culture-as-out-of-control-bankrate-survey-finds-personal-finances-tip-workers-gig-economy-service-workers-taxes-on-tips)

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

When the wife and I eat out, exactly who am I trying to impress when tipping?

The server? Someone I'll probably never see again or have them remember me that next time I dine there?

I've been lucky enough to have made a good living for the last 40 years. I have no problem sharing some of that. During Covid, I tipped like Ray Liotta in Goodfellas... Why? Because I could. And because those I tipped were having a hard time making ends meet due to Covid restrictions.

Oh, and I don't believe in heaven (just like you don't)...

And you know as well as I do, and as well as everyone else does, that the pandemic and shut-downs was an unusual circumstance. Most people were out of work entirely, and those who were working in tipped service positions were taking huge risks, and dealing with insane employee shortages because many quit or were too sick to work (or died).

During normal times (which we have now, thankfully), overtipping can be (not always, but can be) harmful to the employee's bottom line, and healthy for the employer's bottom line. This is completely reverse to the intention of tipping.

[fdpaq0580]

A lot of people see it as out of control.

chevron-right (https://foxbaltimore.com/news/nation-world/many-americans-see-tipping-culture-as-out-of-control-bankrate-survey-finds-personal-finances-tip-workers-gig-economy-service-workers-taxes-on-tips)

Absolutely out of control imho. What started as a "thanks, keep the change" Gratuity has morphed into cost saving for business pushed onto customers to cover what should be covered under business expenses/wages. When and why did this happen? Make one wonder how some can keep the lights on.

[Cuervo]

Let's do a little math $13 X 8Hrs. = $104.
Assuming the person works 5 days a week that comes out to $520.
Let's all assume since in today's world $520 a week is not a living wage, the person deiced not to take a vacation.
So, a person working for $13 an hour working 52 weeks a year will earn $27,040.
That is not a living wage that is why I always leave a tip.

[pkfavreau2]

Because the restaurant now has to pay the server a minimum of $9.98 instead of the $2.13/hr they've increased the menu prices.
This being the case, I've reduced the amount that I'm now tipping. What irritates me is they still have the 18, 20, 25% tip suggestions at the bottom of the receipt.

You try living these day on $15 per hour!

[retiredguy123]

Let's do a little math $13 X 8Hrs. = $104.
Assuming the person works 5 days a week that comes out to $520.
Let's all assume since in today's world $520 a week is not a living wage, the person deiced not to take a vacation.
So, a person working for $13 an hour working 52 weeks a year will earn $27,040.
That is not a living wage that is why I always leave a tip.
Do you leave the same tip at McDonald's or Wendy's where the employees make the same amount?

[wsachs]

I worked as a first responder for many years. No one ever tipped us for saving their lives.
I'm assuming you received health care, vision, dental, a pension or 401K, and paid vacations. I also assume none of the restaurant workers around TV or FL for that matter get any of those benefits. Most restaurant workers don't even get 40 hrs per week as then their employer would have to pay them additional benefits.

[Nordhagen]

T- to
I-insure
P-prompt
S-service

[LonnyP]

The tips are not built into the prices everywhere. Have you seen them broken down on your receipts? It is amazing sitting back in this community and watching the old misers under tip, I feel bad for those servers. No wonder why it is so hard to get help in the services industry.

[retiredguy123]

The tips are not built into the prices everywhere. Have you seen them broken down on your receipts? It is amazing sitting back in this community and watching the old misers under tip, I feel bad for those servers. No wonder why it is so hard to get help in the services industry.
Tips are optional. If they are built in to the menu price, they are not tips.

[Andyb]

Have you noticed the food prices in restaurants have gone up dramatically. I'm not sure everybody knows this but last fall, 2024. Florida enacted a law mandating restaurants pay a base wage of $9.98 to their wait staff and a guarantee of $13/hour when combined with the tips.The law gave restaurants time to change their menu prices so they could pay the base wage.
So, why are we continuing to pay 20% tip when there is already a built in tip in the menu prices?
NOTE: the base wage is also going to go up to $10.98 this fall
Yep, started about 4-1/2 years ago.

[Rainger99]

Let's do a little math $13 X 8Hrs. = $104.
Assuming the person works 5 days a week that comes out to $520.
Let's all assume since in today's world $520 a week is not a living wage, the person deiced not to take a vacation.
So, a person working for $13 an hour working 52 weeks a year will earn $27,040.
That is not a living wage that is why I always leave a tip.

Is every job supposed to have a living wage?

Including part time and starting jobs?

Or are some jobs not meant to be careers?

[donfey]

Have you noticed the food prices in restaurants have gone up dramatically. I'm not sure everybody knows this but last fall, 2024. Florida enacted a law mandating restaurants pay a base wage of $9.98 to their wait staff and a guarantee of $13/hour when combined with the tips.The law gave restaurants time to change their menu prices so they could pay the base wage.
So, why are we continuing to pay 20% tip when there is already a built in tip in the menu prices?
NOTE: the base wage is also going to go up to $10.98 this fall

I find it strange that none of the responses I've read comment on the fact that a 2020 dollar is now worth eighty cents.

[Cliff Fr]

Have you noticed the food prices in restaurants have gone up dramatically. I'm not sure everybody knows this but last fall, 2024. Florida enacted a law mandating restaurants pay a base wage of $9.98 to their wait staff and a guarantee of $13/hour when combined with the tips.The law gave restaurants time to change their menu prices so they could pay the base wage.
So, why are we continuing to pay 20% tip when there is already a built in tip in the menu prices?
NOTE: the base wage is also going to go up to $10.98 this fall

Would you wait on multitudes of people, some of them aholes, for several hours for $14.00 an hour?

[FastAndCurious]

I always tip.....usually 20 percent, but I get the uneasy feeling that I am being exploited. I agree with the OP that restaurant prices have gone up a lot. Traditionally, the tip percentage was 15 percent. At that percentage, with considerably higher prices, the tip amount has already been increased.

During Covid, we all dug deeper to help those who were struggling.
Now 20 percent (or higher) is seen as an entitlement, no matter what level of service is given, and you are being guilt tripped into paying it, often with computer screens.
I have recently noticed at many restaurants that the "suggested tip" on your receipt begins at 20 percent and goes up to 25 percent. (no more 18 percent)
Further, I have also noticed that at many restaurants, the suggested tip is based on the total bill, INCLUDING TAX!
Why would you tip 20 percent on the tax?

Last, did you know that the proposed "no income tax on tips" is ONLY for CASH tips?
And why should it be exempt? It's income!
Have a nice day.

[MandoMan]

Tips aren't supposed to be part of a server's paycheck from their employer. They're supposed to be in ADDITION to it. As a "thank you" from the customer directly, for doing a good (or better) job. There are people with extreme views in either direction:

People who think it's good to give at least 20%, and up to 40% of their tab, usually because they want to show off how generous they are. Those are the people who think they can buy their way into heaven.

People who think that they shouldn't tip at all, because the boss is paying the employee, and the employee is owed nothing by the customer. Those are the people who don't think they have to earn their place in heaven.

And then the people in the middle like me: old-fashioned. Traditional. If service is adequate, no complaints but nothing spectacular, I tip 15%. If service is good, but not great, they get 18%. If service is outstanding, they get 20%, plus one penny, plus a compliment to the manager to let them know their employee was responsible for maintaining high standards for their restaurant. If service was BAD, they get no tip, and a complaint to the manager.

I tip curb-side folks if they have to come out in the rain. I toss the change into the tip jar when I buy something at a take-out joint that has one - sometimes. Those are people who are already earning minimum wage or better, they are not "tipped employees."

IF a waitress averaged $13 an hour for forty hours a week, that would be about $25,000 (before taxes) a year, which is less than I earn in Social Security payments, and my Social Security is much less than half of my yearly income. I earned $25,000 a year my first year as a tenure-track professor with a Ph.D., back in 1986. My family and I were renting an old apartment for $460 a month. Try to find an apartment for that price today!

Waitresses may not be well-educated, but they can work full-time and still be at the poverty level. It’s hard to be hopeful about life with an income like that.

I usually dine alone, yet I take up a table that could provide a tip from four people. Accordingly, since moving to The Villages, I’ve made $10 my BASE tip. If 20% of the check is greater than $10, I pay the greater amount. Otherwise, I tip $10, even if the meal is $13, and even if I’m at a self-service buffet where the waitress is simply refilling my water glass. If I’m having a dinner with other people and we have separate checks, I also tip $10. I’m not sharing this to brag but to show a way for those who have plenty to reward hard-working people who are living on the edge. It’s not a way to earn one’s way into heaven. I’ve been blessed, and I want to bless others. I want to say thank you.

[Topgun 1776]

Have you noticed the food prices in restaurants have gone up dramatically. I'm not sure everybody knows this but last fall, 2024. Florida enacted a law mandating restaurants pay a base wage of $9.98 to their wait staff and a guarantee of $13/hour when combined with the tips.The law gave restaurants time to change their menu prices so they could pay the base wage.
So, why are we continuing to pay 20% tip when there is already a built in tip in the menu prices?
NOTE: the base wage is also going to go up to $10.98 this fall

Thanks for sharing!
Oh boy!!! I can see the "You must tip us MORE no matter what level of service you get" wait staff people lining up to reply!
I don't tip to help compensate...never have...never will. I tip for good service. I tip more for great service. Of course, that's my choice. What anyone else does is theirs.

[retiredguy123]

IF a waitress averaged $13 an hour for forty hours a week, that would be about $25,000 (before taxes) a year, which is less than I earn in Social Security payments, and my Social Security is much less than half of my yearly income. I earned $25,000 a year my first year as a tenure-track professor with a Ph.D., back in 1986. My family and I were renting an old apartment for $460 a month. Try to find an apartment for that price today!

Waitresses may not be well-educated, but they can work full-time and still be at the poverty level. It’s hard to be hopeful about life with an income like that.

I usually dine alone, yet I take up a table that could provide a tip from four people. Accordingly, since moving to The Villages, I’ve made $10 my BASE tip. If 20% of the check is greater than $10, I pay the greater amount. Otherwise, I tip $10, even if the meal is $13, and even if I’m at a self-service buffet where the waitress is simply refilling my water glass. If I’m having a dinner with other people and we have separate checks, I also tip $10. I’m not sharing this to brag but to show a way for those who have plenty to reward hard-working people who are living on the edge. It’s not a way to earn one’s way into heaven. I’ve been blessed, and I want to bless others. I want to say thank you.
Note that the Federal poverty level for one person is $15,650 per year.

[MX rider]

Let's do a little math $13 X 8Hrs. = $104.
Assuming the person works 5 days a week that comes out to $520.
Let's all assume since in today's world $520 a week is not a living wage, the person deiced not to take a vacation.
So, a person working for $13 an hour working 52 weeks a year will earn $27,040.
That is not a living wage that is why I always leave a tip.

Well said, 100% agree. Tipping is the only way for them to make decent money. Without people tipping it will be even more difficult than it already is to find good restaurant help.

[MX rider]

IF a waitress averaged $13 an hour for forty hours a week, that would be about $25,000 (before taxes) a year, which is less than I earn in Social Security payments, and my Social Security is much less than half of my yearly income. I earned $25,000 a year my first year as a tenure-track professor with a Ph.D., back in 1986. My family and I were renting an old apartment for $460 a month. Try to find an apartment for that price today!

Waitresses may not be well-educated, but they can work full-time and still be at the poverty level. It’s hard to be hopeful about life with an income like that.

I usually dine alone, yet I take up a table that could provide a tip from four people. Accordingly, since moving to The Villages, I’ve made $10 my BASE tip. If 20% of the check is greater than $10, I pay the greater amount. Otherwise, I tip $10, even if the meal is $13, and even if I’m at a self-service buffet where the waitress is simply refilling my water glass. If I’m having a dinner with other people and we have separate checks, I also tip $10. I’m not sharing this to brag but to show a way for those who have plenty to reward hard-working people who are living on the edge. It’s not a way to earn one’s way into heaven. I’ve been blessed, and I want to bless others. I want to say thank you.

That's awesome!! We tip very well too. We're not rich by any means but we like helping others do better. Especially if the server is excellent and hard working. Good servers deserve a good tip. 20% is the minimum. 15% went away years ago.

[Laker]

Do you leave the same tip at McDonald's or Wendy's where the employees make the same amount?

At McDonalds you go to the counter and pick up your food, it is not delivered to a table by someone who is catering to you, and cleaning up your mess.

People who don't tip look for any excuse not to, bottom line is they are just cheapskates.

[retiredguy123]

Question - If the minimum wage in Florida is $13 per hour, why should servers at a sit down restaurant get a 20 percent tip, when fast food restaurant servers usually get no tip?

[dougjb]

The entire business plan of most restaurants is faulty!

What other business requires the patrons of that business to pay money to supplement the pay check of the business's employees? Can you imagine "tipping" a car dealership for the good service provided by the dealership's employees? Can you imagine the dealership suggest that they could no longer afford to pay a liveable wage to their employees if the patrons were unable or unwilling to "tip" their employees? How totally ridiculous!

So, what is the answer? In Europe, I have had it happen that when I go to "tip" the server, many are genuinely insulted that I would do such a thing. Their employer pays them for doing a good job!

I am appalled at certain restaurants that I have frequented that add a special charge to my bill to address the fact that they have to pay their workers a liveable wage (this has occurred primarily in states which have upped the hourly pay of servers). When the restaurant does this, they should realize that my patronage ends with my payment of that one bill.

In my opinion, a restaurant should charge what it needs to charge to cover all of their expenses of operating the business including their employee's wages. Obviously, the menu prices will have to increase. A patron pays a business for the entirety of the costs the business incurs plus a suitable charge to patron for profit!

So, maybe the solution is to not tip. The immediate impact will be on the servers. They will soon look for other employment. But, ultimately, the restaurant owner will either have to increase prices to cover the employee's wages to a living wage or go out of business. I have no problem with less restaurants if it means the cessation of paying slave wages and then relying upon the largess of the restaurant's patrons.

By the way, please consider what the minimum wages permitted by statute really amount too. A wage of $10 per hour means a gross annual pay of about $20,000 before taxes. A wage of $13 per hour equates to an annual wage of $26,000. Could you survive on either amount? Why should we expect serves to live on these amounts? It is time to increase the minimum wage for all employees to an amount sufficient to provide a liveable wage. And yes, all of us patrons, across the board, would have to pay what it actually costs for a business to stay in business!

[rwfisher1969]

After living in TV for four years on thing is very evident, people here are cheap. They will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars for a house blindly. When it comes to paying for paying for dinner and tipping its like they are living on a welfare budget.

[Bill14564]

I always tip.....usually 20 percent, but I get the uneasy feeling that I am being exploited. I agree with the OP that restaurant prices have gone up a lot. Traditionally, the tip percentage was 15 percent. At that percentage, with considerably higher prices, the tip amount has already been increased.


I agree, since tips are usually calculated on a percentage of the bill, as prices increase so do tips. I haven't increased my tip percentage due to life being more expensive for the worker, I keep my tip percentage the same since I know the worker will receive more due to the increase in the price I am charged.

Basically, at 20% tipping, the server must serve five customers in order to take in enough to buy one meal. That stays the same even if the price of the meal doubles: at 20% tipping they would still make enough to pay for one meal by serving five customers.

Further, I have also noticed that at many restaurants, the suggested tip is based on the total bill, INCLUDING TAX!
Why would you tip 20 percent on the tax?

I would tip 20% on the bottom line including tax because: 1. it is an easy number to find and doesn't require additional math in my head; 2. I tend to tip enough to make the final charge an even dollar amount; and , 3. the amount of additional tip that comes from tipping on tax is negligible to me.

Last, did you know that the proposed "no income tax on tips" is ONLY for CASH tips?
And why should it be exempt? It's income!
Have a nice day.

This will come down to the IRS definition of "cash tip" which is very likely to include credit card tips. Otherwise, the law would have had to specify "tips in the form of cash, credit card payments, debit card payments, or check." Better to use the term "cash tip" since the IRS already understands that term to mean what we all think of as any "tip."

[Sgt Ed]

Have you noticed the food prices in restaurants have gone up dramatically. I'm not sure everybody knows this but last fall, 2024. Florida enacted a law mandating restaurants pay a base wage of $9.98 to their wait staff and a guarantee of $13/hour when combined with the tips.The law gave restaurants time to change their menu prices so they could pay the base wage.
So, why are we continuing to pay 20% tip when there is already a built in tip in the menu prices?
NOTE: the base wage is also going to go up to $10.98 this fall Question, are YOU willing to do that or any other job for $10.00 a hour? Can anyone live on $10.00 an hour or $14.00 . I say get real.

[MrLindy]

Have you noticed the food prices in restaurants have gone up dramatically. I'm not sure everybody knows this but last fall, 2024. Florida enacted a law mandating restaurants pay a base wage of $9.98 to their wait staff and a guarantee of $13/hour when combined with the tips.The law gave restaurants time to change their menu prices so they could pay the base wage.
So, why are we continuing to pay 20% tip when there is already a built in tip in the menu prices?
NOTE: the base wage is also going to go up to $10.98 this fall
Maybe so. However, prices at comparable restaurants OFF THE VILLAGES seem to be considerably less than Villages, especially FMK restaurants! We should vote with our $$$ and become patrons of businesses that don't seem to be trying to take advantage of us!

[retiredguy123]

A lot of posters are saying that they do tip generously. But I find it difficult to believe that many people are actually happy with the current tipping tradition. If restaurants eliminated tipping altogether, I think most people would applaud that decision. But this will never happen because the restaurants are the ones who benefit most from tipping, not the customers or the servers.

[Regorp]

Have you noticed the food prices in restaurants have gone up dramatically. I'm not sure everybody knows this but last fall, 2024. Florida enacted a law mandating restaurants pay a base wage of $9.98 to their wait staff and a guarantee of $13/hour when combined with the tips.The law gave restaurants time to change their menu prices so they could pay the base wage.
So, why are we continuing to pay 20% tip when there is already a built in tip in the menu prices?
NOTE: the base wage is also going to go up to $10.98 this fall

Wait staff rely on tips as income and soon they will be tax free. Be generous to these hard working and underpaid service workers.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Let's do a little math $13 X 8Hrs. = $104.
Assuming the person works 5 days a week that comes out to $520.
Let's all assume since in today's world $520 a week is not a living wage, the person deiced not to take a vacation.
So, a person working for $13 an hour working 52 weeks a year will earn $27,040.
That is not a living wage that is why I always leave a tip.

Tipped employees in the Villages area don't work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. They usually work 4-6 hours a day, 3-4 days a week. They're not trying to make a living wage off that one job. They might have a few jobs, or a second job, or maybe their waiter job IS their second job. Or they might be supplementing their spouse's income, or they have social security checks, and want to keep working but need to work only part time because if they earn too much at their job, their social security checks get cut off. Some of them are students who -cannot- work a full time job because it would interfere with their studies.

Meanwhile, Florida minimum wage is $14/hour, not $13/hour.

Meanwhile, my household annual income is under $60k for two people, including a pension and two social security checks, and we do just fine here.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

T- to
I-insure
P-prompt
S-service That is a myth. Rated:

F-Fake
A-And
L-Largely
S-Semantically
E-Erroneous

The Origins of Tipping | Snopes.com (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tip-sheet/)

[Bill14564]

A lot of posters are saying that they do tip generously. But I find it difficult to believe that many people are actually happy with the current tipping tradition. If restaurants eliminated tipping altogether, I think most people would applaud that decision. But this will never happen because the restaurants are the ones who benefit most from tipping, not the customers or the servers.

I am not happy with the tradition and I would like to see it go away but I don't expect that to happen. No one would be happy with it, not the customers, not the owners, and certainly not the servers.

Just thinking about the customers, many will balk at the higher prices even if they are just 20% higher. A $16 burger and a $8 beer seems about right but at just 20% more, a $19 burger and $10 beer seems expensive. The total amount paid, $31 (the former with tipping and the latter without), will be the same but many customers won't recognize that.

The customers will see the higher prices and will spend more time at Publix, the owners will see a drop in business (at least initially, people will get bored with Pub subs), and the servers, at least the better ones, will see a drop in compensation.

Getting away from tipping is the way to go, I just don't see it happening any time soon.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

IF a waitress averaged $13 an hour for forty hours a week, that would be about $25,000 (before taxes) a year, which is less than I earn in Social Security payments, and my Social Security is much less than half of my yearly income. I earned $25,000 a year my first year as a tenure-track professor with a Ph.D., back in 1986. My family and I were renting an old apartment for $460 a month. Try to find an apartment for that price today!

Waitresses may not be well-educated, but they can work full-time and still be at the poverty level. It’s hard to be hopeful about life with an income like that.

I usually dine alone, yet I take up a table that could provide a tip from four people. Accordingly, since moving to The Villages, I’ve made $10 my BASE tip. If 20% of the check is greater than $10, I pay the greater amount. Otherwise, I tip $10, even if the meal is $13, and even if I’m at a self-service buffet where the waitress is simply refilling my water glass. If I’m having a dinner with other people and we have separate checks, I also tip $10. I’m not sharing this to brag but to show a way for those who have plenty to reward hard-working people who are living on the edge. It’s not a way to earn one’s way into heaven. I’ve been blessed, and I want to bless others. I want to say thank you.

Wait staff isn't working full time. They are shift-workers. They're not TRYING to earn a living wage, at that job.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Question - If the minimum wage in Florida is $13 per hour, why should servers at a sit down restaurant get a 20 percent tip, when fast food restaurant servers usually get no tip?

First of all, it's $14/hour, not $13.

Second, fast food workers don't serve customers at their table. They don't return to the table to see how the customer is enjoying their meal. They don't refill your water glass, they don't bring you a ketchup bottle for your fries. They don't order the bus boy to take your salad plate off the table so that you can serve the entree. They don't tell the chef that you loved/hated the frisee salad with sea foam and avacado gelee drizzle. Fast food workers press buttons on the register as you go to THEM to place your order, they take your money, they might answer a question about what comes with the thing you're ordering, they try to upsell a "meal" if you're only ordering a sandwich, and they put your completed order in a bag or on a tray and set it down on the other end of the counter, where YOU pick it up, bring it to your table, and deal with all the trash yourself.

In some restaurants, they don't even do that much - you order on a kiosk and they just bring your the order in a bag (such as with Sonic).

Fast food workers do a lot more than that behind the scenes (cleaning the dining room, refilling the ice bin, filling up the napkin dispenser, wiping down the counter, etc) but the customer-specific stuff is very limited, they don't "serve" you at all.

In addition, fast-food workers are all regular minimum wage (or better) workers. They are not tipped employees. Their boss is REQUIRED to pay them the full minimum wage, or better. Their boss is allowed to allow tips at the restaurant, but the pay rate must be exclusive of tips.

Employers of tipped employees may pay a lower minimum, as long as the end result meets or exceeds the state regular minimum inclusive of tips.

[ChicagoNative]

Tipping is absolutely out of control. There’s no way I’m going to tip for pick-up, or self-service, or cafeteria type restaurants, and the little Apple Cash register screen or tip jar isn’t going to guilt me. And the push for the 30%+ tips that we started seeing during COVID need to go away.

For a sit down place, yes. We start at 20% and adjust according to service. It’s rare that I leave no tip, but I=e gone as low as 5% for crap service.

That said, a good server is worth their weight in gold. Dealing with the dining public is almost a contact sport, and I wouldn’t want to deal with the rude, arrogant, demanding, nasty people out there.

[Cuervo]

My original post was to say if a person sole employment is a server at a restaurant working at $13 an hour full time 52 weeks a year their total annual income would be $27,040. So, you might believe tipping should be abolished, but at that income they will most likely be able to apply for government food subsidies, which means you will be paying the tip anyway.

[Rainger99]

I was in Europe last year and almost no Europeans tip. Or if they do, it is usually a euro or two.

That is because the tip is included in the price of the meal. The same with sales tax. If you go to a restaurant in Europe the price on the menu is the price of your meal. No 23% surcharge (15% tip plus 8% sales tax).

If Europe can do it, why can’t the USA?

[Bill14564]

Wait staff isn't working full time. They are shift-workers. They're not TRYING to earn a living wage, at that job.

That's a pretty big generalization about a whole lot of servers.

[Rainger99]

Many posters suggest that being a waitress is about the worst job in the world.

Are there minimum wage jobs that are worse than being a waitress in an air conditioned restaurant?

[Fastskiguy]

So if I got to my favorite restaurant, they add on a 22.5% tip on top of tax. If I order a glass of water and burger then the server gets screwed. If I order a cocktail, the seafood tower, a bottle of wine, and a steak, then I get screwed. I know it takes a little more time for the server to service a table with drinks and appetizers but still, it's not even close.

How can we do this so it's fair?

Joe

[Bill14564]

First of all, it's $14/hour, not $13.



According to FSU HR (https://hr.fsu.edu/article/floridas-minimum-wage-changes-through-2026) and the US Department of Labor (https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/minimum-wage/state), Florida minimum wage is $13 right now and will become $14 in a few months on Sept 30.

[retiredguy123]

So if I got to my favorite restaurant, they add on a 22.5% tip on top of tax. If I order a glass of water and burger then the server gets screwed. If I order a cocktail, the seafood tower, a bottle of wine, and a steak, then I get screwed. I know it takes a little more time for the server to service a table with drinks and appetizers but still, it's not even close.

How can we do this so it's fair?

Joe
If the restaurant is adding the "tip", it is not a tip. Tips are optional and the amount is determined by the customer.

[PurePeach]

Have you noticed the food prices in restaurants have gone up dramatically. I'm not sure everybody knows this but last fall, 2024. Florida enacted a law mandating restaurants pay a base wage of $9.98 to their wait staff and a guarantee of $13/hour when combined with the tips.The law gave restaurants time to change their menu prices so they could pay the base wage.
So, why are we continuing to pay 20% tip when there is already a built in tip in the menu prices?
NOTE: the base wage is also going to go up to $10.98 this fall

This is not an included tip. As restaurant owners in GA, the law was always that the server be guaranteed minimum wage. The server was required to “report” their tips daily in order to assure the state/Fed’l that the server was paid minimum wage. This has always been the way it’s worked, even when wages were $2.10/hr (or less). Only the dollar amounts have changed. Don’t stiff the server. If you can afford to pay the price charged for the meal, you can tip the one busting it to get food, and every little thing you think you need after your food arrives, to meet your expectations and making your dining experience pleasurable.

[mtdjed]

Let's do a little math $13 X 8Hrs. = $104.
Assuming the person works 5 days a week that comes out to $520.
Let's all assume since in today's world $520 a week is not a living wage, the person deiced not to take a vacation.
So, a person working for $13 an hour working 52 weeks a year will earn $27,040.
That is not a living wage that is why I always leave a tip.

I am not advocating elimination of tips but let's cut the Myth of poverty.

First, people chose that occupation, not for $13/Hour, but for the opportunity for the tip income. As one poster indicated from firsthand sources, that tip income can average $250 to $300 per day. At the lower number that equals $65,000. Add to that the Tipped Minimum wage ($8.98/Hour) $18,000/year for a total of $83,000.

Further these poor people have garnered an upcoming bonus of no tax on tips. That gift was given to these folks at the expense of the rest of us. By that I mean that what they don't have to pay, we have to make up.

Not all tipped wait staff receive that level of tips. Depends on the restaurant, location, level of business. But the best staff tend to get the best jobs. You are likely to find lower paid in rural areas , diners, etc

Not saying that even the example mentioned above is ideal, but I would guess there are many residents of the Villages that don't currently have that type of Income.

While we have typically given Tips in cash, it would seem that we were enabling staff to understate Income. No real reason to do that anymore.

[banjobob]

Have you noticed the food prices in restaurants have gone up dramatically. I'm not sure everybody knows this but last fall, 2024. Florida enacted a law mandating restaurants pay a base wage of $9.98 to their wait staff and a guarantee of $13/hour when combined with the tips.The law gave restaurants time to change their menu prices so they could pay the base wage.
So, why are we continuing to pay 20% tip when there is already a built in tip in the menu prices?
NOTE: the base wage is also going to go up to $10.98 this fall
The tip is based on quality of the service , the normal % of 20 was the standard throughout the industry, I tip the 15/20% range more if service better. Good servers deserve a good tip poor food , any other iss ue in the restaurant is the managers concern . I don't consider what the restaurant makes or the servers base pay is. The service received and the value of the meal portion served are the guidelines.

[wanttoknow]

what will become when "no tax on tips" takes place? Would be nice if everyone could work and not report their income to the IRS.
Previously worked in the restaurant industry - made more income as a waiter - then full time in an administrative position where all income was reported to IRS.

[jimhoward]

I was in Europe last year and almost no Europeans tip. Or if they do, it is usually a euro or two.

That is because the tip is included in the price of the meal. The same with sales tax. If you go to a restaurant in Europe the price on the menu is the price of your meal. No 23% surcharge (15% tip plus 8% sales tax).

If Europe can do it, why can’t the USA?

Servers in Europe make much less than servers in the USA. The tipping is much less, and the hourly pay is more, but not much more. Typical pay <$1700 euros/month (plus tips).

I think you certainly could do that in the USA, but I don't think it will happen. The likely effect would be that meal prices would rise (but by less than the full 15%), and server incomes would go down.

[ChicagoNative]

A little tangent: How did we get to the point of thinking that everyone deserves a “living wage” for any job they have? Many restaurant jobs, particularly of the fast food variety, have traditionally been part-time and stepping stones into the world of work for young people, or retirees looking for something to do or add some spending money to their pockets.

Some who’ve decided to make hospitality their career will work their way up into higher end establishments where, as mentioned, the total compensation is pretty good. Even if one stays with a fast food company, they can work into a store manager or possibly a franchise owner. The key words are “work their way up”.

If anyone isnt satisfied with their station in life, they need to educate themselves, either through traditional schooling or even better, through an apprenticeship program to learn a trade. But that’s hard work! It’s much easier to whine about someone else’s privilege, protest, and demand $15-20 an hour to make a cup of coffee or flip a burger.

It all reminds me of the lyrics sung by the great Mavis Staples:

🎼“If you're walking 'round thinking that the world owes you something ‘cause you're here
You goin' out the world backwards like you did when you first come here, yeah.”🎼

[jimhoward]

TIPS are portrayed as a reward for good service (hence the acronym), and Servers as service employees.

But in reality Servers are sales clerks and TIPS are buyer paid commissions. They perform sales functions. They give you menus, they help you make selections. they take your order, they deliver the product to you. The upsell whenever possible. Todays special is Prime Rib. Can I interest you in desert?

The customer has the option of tipping whatever they want, but in practice, almost everyone tips between 15-20%. So the server is simply getting 15% of everything they sell. If the service is really bad, they may get low or zero, but that doesn't happen often. The fact that the buyer rather than the seller pays that doesn't alter the picture much, although it makes some customers a bit annoyed by the custom.

Thought of in this way, Servers compensation structure is not much different than many other customer facing jobs.

[retiredguy123]

The tip is based on quality of the service , the normal % of 20 was the standard throughout the industry, I tip the 15/20% range more if service better. Good servers deserve a good tip poor food , any other iss ue in the restaurant is the managers concern . I don't consider what the restaurant makes or the servers base pay is. The service received and the value of the meal portion served are the guidelines.
Some posters on this website have admitted that they tip 20 percent even if they get bad service. That is one reason that there are a lot of mediocre restaurants.

[Michael 61]

Some posters on this website have admitted that they tip 20 percent even if they get bad service. That is one reason that there are a lot of mediocre restaurants.

20 percent for bad service?? 😂😂

[fdpaq0580]

Would you wait on multitudes of people, some of them aholes, for several hours for $14.00 an hour?

Do I have a choice? 🙃🫠😉

[fdpaq0580]

I always tip.....usually 20 percent, but I get the uneasy feeling that I am being exploited.
Have a nice day.

You are being exploited. That feeling is real.
May you have a nice day as well! 🙂

[jimhoward]

I am not advocating elimination of tips but let's cut the Myth of poverty.

First, people chose that occupation, not for $13/Hour, but for the opportunity for the tip income. As one poster indicated from firsthand sources, that tip income can average $250 to $300 per day. At the lower number that equals $65,000. Add to that the Tipped Minimum wage ($8.98/Hour) $18,000/year for a total of $83,000.

Further these poor people have garnered an upcoming bonus of no tax on tips. That gift was given to these folks at the expense of the rest of us. By that I mean that what they don't have to pay, we have to make up.

Not all tipped wait staff receive that level of tips. Depends on the restaurant, location, level of business. But the best staff tend to get the best jobs. You are likely to find lower paid in rural areas , diners, etc

Not saying that even the example mentioned above is ideal, but I would guess there are many residents of the Villages that don't currently have that type of Income.

While we have typically given Tips in cash, it would seem that we were enabling staff to understate Income. No real reason to do that anymore.


I think good servers could make that in the villages if they could get enough hours. But restaurants limit them to far fewer than 40 hours per week to avoid paying benefits. They are also quick to cut them on slow days.

[fdpaq0580]

I find it strange that none of the responses I've read comment on the fact that a 2020 dollar is now worth eighty cents.

Tips are generally figured on percentage of the bill, regardless of the value of the dollar. Although, the fact that the "custom" has been increased by whoknows wit just that thought, value of a dollar, as an argument to try and justify 5% to 10% to 12% to 15% to 18% to 20% to 25% and up. Where and when does the nonsense end?

[fdpaq0580]

20% is the minimum. 15% went away years ago.

Why? Which authority made that ruling? Sounds like consumer exploitation and a tax dodge to me. Probably worker exploitation as well.

[fdpaq0580]

At McDonalds you go to the counter and pick up your food, it is not delivered to a table by someone who is catering to you, and cleaning up your mess.

People who don't tip look for any excuse not to, bottom line is they are just cheapskates.

What a wide brush you are painting with, Picasso.

[fdpaq0580]

A lot of posters are saying that they do tip generously. But I find it difficult to believe that many people are actually happy with the current tipping tradition. If restaurants eliminated tipping altogether, I think most people would applaud that decision. But this will never happen because the restaurants are the ones who benefit most from tipping, not the customers or the servers.

Was greater truth ever spoken!

[fdpaq0580]

Wait staff rely on tips as income and soon they will be tax free. Be generous to these hard working and underpaid service workers.

Sounds like industrial exploitation of workers.
Can you say "union"?

[fdpaq0580]

I am not happy with the tradition and I would like to see it go away but I don't expect that to happen. No one would be happy with it, not the customers, not the owners, and certainly not the servers.

Just thinking about the customers, many will balk at the higher prices even if they are just 20% higher. A $16 burger and a $8 beer seems about right but at just 20% more, a $19 burger and $10 beer seems expensive. The total amount paid, $31 (the former with tipping and the latter without), will be the same but many customers won't recognize that.

The customers will see the higher prices and will spend more time at Publix, the owners will see a drop in business (at least initially, people will get bored with Pub subs), and the servers, at least the better ones, will see a drop in compensation.

Getting away from tipping is the way to go, I just don't see it happening any time soon.

I disagree with some of this. First off, prices are already 20% higher if you figure in the tip. Plus, the customer, has to deal with the emotional side of the oftipping. Oh, the poor single mom with 4 kids that all need braces. Oh, the guilt of not funding their futures.
As for the servers, the don't need try to be your new BFF. Just be polite and professional. No tip expected because you get it without fawning over every table. Easier for everyone at tax time, too.[
[/LIST]

[asianthree]

Just returned from lunch at Mallory. My guess is a few posters also had stopped.The place was packed with skeleton staff. Our waitress had 7 tables of 4-6 patrons. Before our glasses were half empty drinks were refilled, our food was delivered in 18 minutes (kudos to kitchen staff). Next table of 4 golfers ordered the wing special $6 each plus drink $2.99 for soda. Total with tax $10.69. Each left $11 cash. It’s just sad. Our waitress picked up the cash, continued to smile and thank us for stopping.

[wanttoknow]

noticed most responses indicate that tips should be based on total of bill. so if one person orders and the bill is $100.00 they should tip 20%. but if two people order and their bill totals $100.00 - they should tip 20% also? seems like the wait staff did more for the party of two than the party of one. so why is the tipping suggested based on the total bill rather than the service given?

[Pugchief]

I have also noticed that at many restaurants, the suggested tip is based on the total bill, INCLUDING TAX!
Why would you tip 20 percent on the tax?
You wouldn't. The pre-tax amount is clearly listed on the bill. It's just as easy to calculate 20% of the pre-tax amount as the post-tax amount.

The proposed "no income tax on tips": Why should it be exempt? It's income!

Agree 100%. Either all income should be subject to tax, or no income should be subject to tax. Special carve-outs are ridiculous.

----------------------

As for the fantasy of tip culture in the US ever going away, there are close to 750,000 restaurants in the country. Unless you can get all of the owners to agree to prohibit tips, it's never gonna happen.

[Pugchief]

Next table of 4 golfers ordered the wing special $6 each plus drink $2.99 for soda. Total with tax $10.69. Each left $11 cash. It’s just sad.


That is disgusting behavior. If you can afford to pay for championship golf, you should be able to afford a decent tip.

[Plinker]

Consider two evenings out for a couple.
Evening #1 is at Texas Roadhouse with a total bill of $80. The service was very good and the tip is $16.
Evening #2 is at Stirrups in Ocala with a total bill of $250. The service was very good and the tip is $50.
I chose these two restaurants as we have eaten at both.
As the amount of work at each location to serve us was the same, why would the tips be so different? Also, do you tip $8 on a $40 bottle of wine and $16 on a $80 bottle of wine?
It makes no sense. Why not come up with a standard tip amount without considering the amount spent? Instead, consider the amount of work involved. If you experience truly superb service, then leave more.
Please don’t answer by saying if you can afford to eat at an expensive restaurant you can afford the larger tip.

[JMintzer]

And you know as well as I do, and as well as everyone else does, that the pandemic and shut-downs was an unusual circumstance. Most people were out of work entirely, and those who were working in tipped service positions were taking huge risks, and dealing with insane employee shortages because many quit or were too sick to work (or died).

During normal times (which we have now, thankfully), overtipping can be (not always, but can be) harmful to the employee's bottom line, and healthy for the employer's bottom line. This is completely reverse to the intention of tipping.

I still tip the same way... (and I'd be hard pressed to find that any servers, who tend to be young and healthy DIED due to Covid...

Thinking that over tipping is actually harmful to the employees sounds like a cop out reason NOT to tip...

[JMintzer]

Do you leave the same tip at McDonald's or Wendy's where the employees make the same amount?

Handing me a bag of food is just a tad less difficult than being a server in a sit down restaurant...

[JMintzer]

T- to
I-insure
P-prompt
S-service

From the Google Machine:

While the etymology of "tip" as an acronym for "to insure prompt service" is a popular belief, it's actually a myth. The term "tip" is thought to have originated from the phrase "To Insure Prompt Service," but it's more likely related to the Old English word meaning "to give". In modern usage, a tip is a gratuity, a gift of money given for good service.

[JMintzer]

Question - If the minimum wage in Florida is $13 per hour, why should servers at a sit down restaurant get a 20 percent tip, when fast food restaurant servers usually get no tip?

Because there is a very large difference in the service you receive...

Taking 1-2 minutes to take your order and hand you a bag of food a McDonalds is a far cry from taking care of a table of four for 60-90 minutes...

[JMintzer]

Maybe so. However, prices at comparable restaurants OFF THE VILLAGES seem to be considerably less than Villages, especially FMK restaurants! We should vote with our $$$ and become patrons of businesses that don't seem to be trying to take advantage of us!

I haven't seen that much of a disparity. And the convenience of being "inside the bubble" comes with a price...

[JMintzer]

A lot of posters are saying that they do tip generously. But I find it difficult to believe that many people are actually happy with the current tipping tradition. If restaurants eliminated tipping altogether, I think most people would applaud that decision. But this will never happen because the restaurants are the ones who benefit most from tipping, not the customers or the servers.

Yes, they benefit so much that this happens:

17% fail in the first year, according to UC Berkeley. About 80% of restaurants fail within the first five years.

[JMintzer]

I am not advocating elimination of tips but let's cut the Myth of poverty.

First, people chose that occupation, not for $13/Hour, but for the opportunity for the tip income. As one poster indicated from firsthand sources, that tip income can average $250 to $300 per day. At the lower number that equals $65,000. Add to that the Tipped Minimum wage ($8.98/Hour) $18,000/year for a total of $83,000.

You're assuming they work 5 days a week and that Monday/Tuesday nights are just as busy as Friday/Saturday...

[JMintzer]

A little tangent: How did we get to the point of thinking that everyone deserves a “living wage” for any job they have? Many restaurant jobs, particularly of the fast food variety, have traditionally been part-time and stepping stones into the world of work for young people, or retirees looking for something to do or add some spending money to their pockets.

Some who’ve decided to make hospitality their career will work their way up into higher end establishments where, as mentioned, the total compensation is pretty good. Even if one stays with a fast food company, they can work into a store manager or possibly a franchise owner. The key words are “work their way up”.

If anyone isnt satisfied with their station in life, they need to educate themselves, either through traditional schooling or even better, through an apprenticeship program to learn a trade. But that’s hard work! It’s much easier to whine about someone else’s privilege, protest, and demand $15-20 an hour to make a cup of coffee or flip a burger.

It all reminds me of the lyrics sung by the great Mavis Staples:

🎼“If you're walking 'round thinking that the world owes you something ‘cause you're here
You goin' out the world backwards like you did when you first come here, yeah.”🎼

:bigbow::bigbow::bigbow:

[JMintzer]

Some posters on this website have admitted that they tip 20 percent even if they get bad service. That is one reason that there are a lot of mediocre restaurants.

I haven't seen many admitting this...

[mtdjed]

Wait staff rely on tips as income and soon they will be tax free. Be generous to these hard working and underpaid service workers.

Nobody said working is easy. Go into the back room and watch the cook, dishwasher , busboy. They likely work just as hard as waitstaff. They likely work at minimum wage. Are you going to be generous to them and tip them also?

Also, I sense that waitstaff job is becoming easier. Yes, they take the order, but often the food is delivered by a runner who has no idea how you wanted delivery, extra butter, plate, drink refreshment, etc. Many take the order on electronic devices, so they have no interaction with the kitchen staff
Bills are electronic based upon their input. Taxes automatically added as are tips which may or may not be on the bill including taxes. Often you are asked to
do your own payment on table machines. This allows waitstaff to take on more customers.

[JMintzer]

I disagree with some of this. First off, prices are already 20% higher if you figure in the tip. Plus, the customer, has to deal with the emotional side of the oftipping. Oh, the poor single mom with 4 kids that all need braces. Oh, the guilt of not funding their futures.
As for the servers, the don't need try to be your new BFF. Just be polite and professional. No tip expected because you get it without fawning over every table. Easier for everyone at tax time, too.[
[/LIST]


I can't remember ever knowing the personal life situation of any my servers... There's ZERO emotion involved in calculating the tip I leave, unless the server makes me angry by doing a crappy job...

[JMintzer]

noticed most responses indicate that tips should be based on total of bill. so if one person orders and the bill is $100.00 they should tip 20%. but if two people order and their bill totals $100.00 - they should tip 20% also? seems like the wait staff did more for the party of two than the party of one. so why is the tipping suggested based on the total bill rather than the service given?

Or, base the tip on $50 for each patron... Same difference...

[Bill14564]

I disagree with some of this. First off, prices are already 20% higher if you figure in the tip. Plus, the customer, has to deal with the emotional side of the oftipping. Oh, the poor single mom with 4 kids that all need braces. Oh, the guilt of not funding their futures.
As for the servers, the don't need try to be your new BFF. Just be polite and professional. No tip expected because you get it without fawning over every table. Easier for everyone at tax time, too.[
[/LIST]


But most customers won't figure in the tip, they'll just look at the price on the menu. A $16 burger looks high but reasonable and a $3 tip at the end is typical. A $19 burger looks expensive even though no tip will be added. Prices are already 20% higher if you figure in the tip but customers don't figure in the tip.

My guess is that good servers choose busy nights and take on as many tables as possible to get as many tips as possible. Without tipping there would be no incentive to do either of those: whether a server has ten tables or two, $17/hour for 6 hours works out the same. Good servers won't want to lose out on the possibility for good nights.

[Bill14564]

Consider two evenings out for a couple.
Evening #1 is at Texas Roadhouse with a total bill of $80. The service was very good and the tip is $16.
Evening #2 is at Stirrups in Ocala with a total bill of $250. The service was very good and the tip is $50.
I chose these two restaurants as we have eaten at both.
As the amount of work at each location to serve us was the same, why would the tips be so different? Also, do you tip $8 on a $40 bottle of wine and $16 on a $80 bottle of wine?
It makes no sense. Why not come up with a standard tip amount without considering the amount spent? Instead, consider the amount of work involved. If you experience truly superb service, then leave more.
Please don’t answer by saying if you can afford to eat at an expensive restaurant you can afford the larger tip.

The commission on a Jaguar will be much higher than the commission on a Toyota even though the Toyota salesperson will have to work harder to make the sale. Maybe life ain't fair but it's understandable.

Want a new system, maybe $17/hour plus $20/table? Makes sense to me. Let me know when you open your restaurant and I'll give it a try.

[JMintzer]

Nobody said working is easy. Go into the back room and watch the cook, dishwasher , busboy. They likely work just as hard as waitstaff. They likely work at minimum wage. Are you going to be generous to them and tip them also?

Also, I sense that waitstaff job is becoming easier. Yes, they take the order, but often the food is delivered by a runner who has no idea how you wanted delivery, extra butter, plate, drink refreshment, etc. Many take the order on electronic devices, so they have no interaction with the kitchen staff
Bills are electronic based upon their input. Taxes automatically added as are tips which may or may not be on the bill including taxes. Often you are asked to
do your own payment on table machines. This allows waitstaff to take on more customers.

The back staff typically receive a portion of the wait staff's tips...

[fdpaq0580]

If the restaurant is adding the "tip", it is not a tip. Tips are optional and the amount is determined by the customer.

Tips are optional? Not in the court of public opinion! Some folks think that if you choose not to tip it's because your a cheapskate or worse.
If the restaurant pays the employee, then you don't have to. Just pay the bill and go. No emotional blackmail, no customer abuse, no dodging their responsibility for the owners, no shell game with how the business or employees report their taxes. Better for everyone imho. Well, maybe not for the business owner.

[fdpaq0580]

I am not advocating elimination of tips but let's cut the Myth of poverty.

First, people chose that occupation, not for $13/Hour, but for the opportunity for the tip income. As one poster indicated from firsthand sources, that tip income can average $250 to $300 per day. At the lower number that equals $65,000. Add to that the Tipped Minimum wage ($8.98/Hour) $18,000/year for a total of $83,000.

Further these poor people have garnered an upcoming bonus of no tax on tips. That gift was given to these folks at the expense of the rest of us. By that I mean that what they don't have to pay, we have to make up.

Not all tipped wait staff receive that level of tips. Depends on the restaurant, location, level of business. But the best staff tend to get the best jobs. You are likely to find lower paid in rural areas , diners, etc

Not saying that even the example mentioned above is ideal, but I would guess there are many residents of the Villages that don't currently have that type of Income.

While we have typically given Tips in cash, it would seem that we were enabling staff to understate Income. No real reason to do that anymore.

True. No body likes tipping except the ones that receive them and the businesses that use it to scam the customers into helping pay their employees, lowering their costs.

[fdpaq0580]

Just returned from lunch at Mallory. My guess is a few posters also had stopped.The place was packed with skeleton staff. Our waitress had 7 tables of 4-6 patrons. Before our glasses were half empty drinks were refilled, our food was delivered in 18 minutes (kudos to kitchen staff). Next table of 4 golfers ordered the wing special $6 each plus drink $2.99 for soda. Total with tax $10.69. Each left $11 cash. It’s just sad. Our waitress picked up the cash, continued to smile and thank us for stopping.

Sad is right! They each had $.31 in change coming that they could have donated to muscular dystrophy or some other charity.
Just incase you're wondering, I'm only half joking. Waitress has a job and is obviously getting by. Not everyone is as well off.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I still tip the same way... (and I'd be hard pressed to find that any servers, who tend to be young and healthy DIED due to Covid...

Thinking that over tipping is actually harmful to the employees sounds like a cop out reason NOT to tip...

It might sound like that...
if you ignored my post where I stated I'd BEEN a server and
if you ignored my post where I stated I DO tip, 15% for adequate service, 18% for good service, and 20% for outstanding service, plus I let the manager know it was outstanding. And no tip for BAD service, with a heads up to the manager.

My average tip is 18% because most service around here is good, better than average, but not outstanding. So far in the 6+ years I've lived here, I've only once left no tip and alerted the manager. That makes it a solid half-dozen times in my entire life, when I've not tipped a "tipped employee."

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I think good servers could make that in the villages if they could get enough hours. But restaurants limit them to far fewer than 40 hours per week to avoid paying benefits. They are also quick to cut them on slow days.

Servers at Darrell's aren't making $250 per day in tips. The waitress at IHOP isn't making $250 per day in tips. The waiter at Ay! Jalisco who only works the lunch shift isn't making $250 per day in tips. In fact, most servers who work the lunch shift don't make $250 per day in tips, and most of them don't work more than 5 hours in a shift, or more than 4 days in a week. Most servers won't work more than 5 or 6 hours in a shift, for more than 4 days a week.

[fdpaq0580]

You wouldn't. The pre-tax amount is clearly listed on the bill. It's just as easy to calculate 20% of the pre-tax amount as the post-tax amount.


Agree 100%. Either all income should be subject to tax, or no income should be subject to tax. Special carve-outs are ridiculous.

----------------------

As for the fantasy of tip culture in the US ever going away, there are close to 750,000 restaurants in the country. Unless you can get all of the owners to agree to prohibit tips, it's never gonna happen.

Agree with your reply. As for "tip culture", who says the restaurants are incharge or your participation. Screw them. They have been passing their wage responsibilities on to us for ages. We have been scammed. Customers just don't want to push back. How high does the tip percentage have to get before people get fed up and waitstaffers lose their jobs because we've had enough.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Agree with your reply. As for "tip culture", who says the restaurants are incharge or your participation. Screw them. They have been passing their wage responsibilities on to us for ages. We have been scammed. Customers just don't want to push back. How high does the tip percentage have to get before people get fed up and waitstaffers lose their jobs because we've had enough.

As long as people insist on overtipping, servers and their bosses will expect customers to overtip.

The only way we can bring tipping back under control, is if everyone agrees to do so.

I do my part. But my input means nothing without the concerted effort of everyone else.

[fdpaq0580]

I haven't seen many admitting this...

Sadly, the standard is 20% for service ... any service. We find excuses to not blame the server, the only one that really spends any time with you. Oh, they have so many tables, the kitchen screwd up the order, the server had to bring it out. Sorry, I said rare, not blackend. Now when waiter tells chef the customer sent it back, I'm the bad guy, when she took the order, she gave it to the chef and should have seen it was wrong before picking it up. Don't fret dear. I'll eat the shoe. It's not your fault. 20% tip.

[fdpaq0580]

Nobody said working is easy. Go into the back room and watch the cook, dishwasher , busboy. They likely work just as hard as waitstaff. They likely work at minimum wage. Are you going to be generous to them and tip them also?

Also, I sense that waitstaff job is becoming easier. Yes, they take the order, but often the food is delivered by a runner who has no idea how you wanted delivery, extra butter, plate, drink refreshment, etc. Many take the order on electronic devices, so they have no interaction with the kitchen staff
Bills are electronic based upon their input. Taxes automatically added as are tips which may or may not be on the bill including taxes. Often you are asked to
do your own payment on table machines. This allows waitstaff to take on more customers.

Yep! 😉

[fdpaq0580]

The back staff typically receive a portion of the wait staff's tips...

Worse still! The restaurant is not just scamming us into subsidizing one employee, we're subsidizing the whole business? Probably the boss gets the biggest cut. After all, the boss is the boss, righ?😧😡🤬

[Bill14564]

Sadly, the standard is 20% for service ... any service. We find excuses to not blame the server, the only one that really spends any time with you. Oh, they have so many tables, the kitchen screwd up the order, the server had to bring it out. Sorry, I said rare, not blackend. Now when waiter tells chef the customer sent it back, I'm the bad guy, when she took the order, she gave it to the chef and should have seen it was wrong before picking it up. Don't fret dear. I'll eat the shoe. It's not your fault. 20% tip.

You will be happy to know that tips are not solicited or expected at the grocery store. Perhaps rather than putting up with the poor preparation and service you should cook for yourself and do it right the first time.

It’s a bit humorous that you feel terribly scammed by being forced to choose how much tip to leave. This implies you would feel better if the restaurant simply added 25% to the price of each item. Maybe that would work the next time you eat out; “Look, I don’t agree with tipping so just add a 25% inflation fee to my bill and I’ll pay that.”

[fdpaq0580]

Servers at Darrell's aren't making $250 per day in tips. The waitress at IHOP isn't making $250 per day in tips. The waiter at Ay! Jalisco who only works the lunch shift isn't making $250 per day in tips. In fact, most servers who work the lunch shift don't make $250 per day in tips, and most of them don't work more than 5 hours in a shift, or more than 4 days in a week. Most servers won't work more than 5 or 6 hours in a shift, for more than 4 days a week.

Probably part time job to pick up extra money. Student or retired or part of owners family. Not unusual.

[fdpaq0580]

As long as people insist on overtipping, servers and their bosses will expect customers to overtip.

The only way we can bring tipping back under control, is if everyone agrees to do so.

I do my part. But my input means nothing without the concerted effort of everyone else.

True. So, when is National No MoreTip Day. I'm ready to reset to open and honest business practices with no pushing responsibility of on the poor, gullible and unsuspecting customer who just wants something to eat. 😋🤗🤢🤮

[fdpaq0580]

You will be happy to know that tips are not solicited or expected at the grocery store. Perhaps rather than putting up with the poor preparation and service you should cook for yourself and do it right the first time.

It’s a bit humorous that you feel terribly scammed by being forced to choose how much tip to leave. This implies you would feel better if the restaurant simply added 25% to the price of each item. Maybe that would work the next time you eat out; “Look, I don’t agree with tipping so just add a 25% inflation fee to my bill and I’ll pay that.”

I suspect you might be part of the problem. The 20% that I normally leave (even though I feel like a sucker every time), you have just suggested a 25% raise to 25% from 20%.
As for grocery store, I like to choose my own food, and I enjoy cooking. I'm a pretty fair cook and familiar with several styles of cooking. My biggest claim to fame is that I haven't poisoned anyone ... yet. 😒

[asianthree]

I suspect you might be part of the problem. The 20% that I normally leave (even though I feel like a sucker every time), you have just suggested a 25% raise to 25% from 20%.
As for grocery store, I like to choose my own food, and I enjoy cooking. I'm a pretty fair cook and familiar with several styles of cooking. My biggest claim to fame is that I haven't poisoned anyone ... yet. ������

I don’t understand “you feel like a sucker every time”.
You could join the club “Those people who work low paying restaurant jobs should be made feel they are the suckers.”
They choose not to better themselves. Their life should be punished by taking insults, cleaning up the mess, and still smile and say thank you for the punishment.

Maybe instead of feeling like a sucker you could not tip, and smile the rest of the day, knowing you put the person, staff, and the corporation in their place. You aren’t ever going to see them again so just add -0- in the tip line. No more sucker syndrome.

I watched a table of four golfers with that mindset, leaving .31 tip, so the club definitely exists. Or maybe just eat at the drive through, that will teach those who work those restaurant jobs. They chose poorly.

[Fastskiguy]

Consider two evenings out for a couple.
Evening #1 is at Texas Roadhouse with a total bill of $80. The service was very good and the tip is $16.
Evening #2 is at Stirrups in Ocala with a total bill of $250. The service was very good and the tip is $50.
I chose these two restaurants as we have eaten at both.
As the amount of work at each location to serve us was the same, why would the tips be so different? Also, do you tip $8 on a $40 bottle of wine and $16 on a $80 bottle of wine?
It makes no sense. Why not come up with a standard tip amount without considering the amount spent? Instead, consider the amount of work involved. If you experience truly superb service, then leave more.
Please don’t answer by saying if you can afford to eat at an expensive restaurant you can afford the larger tip.

This is what I was going for in my post too. If I order a burger and drink water then the waiter gets screwed. If I order a cocktail, appetizer, fancy main, and a bottle of $$ wine then I get screwed. Yeah yeah it's more work but considering the fancy meal is 4X the tip it's not even close to 4X the work.

And sometimes I honestly just want water and a burger!

Joe

[Bill14564]

This is what I was going for in my post too. If I order a burger and drink water then the waiter gets screwed. If I order a cocktail, appetizer, fancy main, and a bottle of $$ wine then I get screwed. Yeah yeah it's more work but considering the fancy meal is 4X the tip it's not even close to 4X the work.

And sometimes I honestly just want water and a burger!

Joe

So what system do you propose that won't leave someone feeling they were screwed?

1. You show above how our current system of tipping based on the price of the food screws someone.

2. We could go to a flat fee per table, maybe $40 for a four-top, but then you will feel screwed when you eat alone but get charged the same amount as the table of four next to you.

3, Perhaps a flat, per-person charge of $10 but that just reverses #1 - the diner gets screwed for ordering just the burger and water and the waiter gets screwed by the picky, needy diner.

4. Perhaps no fee or tipping at all where the owner increases prices 20% which goes directly into the hourly wage of the waiter but then they both get screwed when the diner essentially leaves a 20% tip regardless of the quality of the service and the waiter who gets the crazy busy shift earns no more than the waiter who served only a single customer who ate only a burger and water.

It feels like the push by the non-tippers is for #4 but I expect it won't be nearly as attractive when menu prices are raised to pay for it.

[retiredguy123]

This is what I was going for in my post too. If I order a burger and drink water then the waiter gets screwed. If I order a cocktail, appetizer, fancy main, and a bottle of $$ wine then I get screwed. Yeah yeah it's more work but considering the fancy meal is 4X the tip it's not even close to 4X the work.

And sometimes I honestly just want water and a burger!

Joe
Tippng is optional and the amount is determined by the customer. No one needs to get screwed. If you feel like you are getting screwed, then you are tipping too much. Just reduce the tip amount.

[Whatnext]

$5 for lunch. $10 for dinner (cash) for two. That's more than enough for TV restaurants.

[fdpaq0580]

Yes, they benefit so much that this happens:

17% fail in the first year, according to UC Berkeley. About 80% of restaurants fail within the first five years.

I fail to see how this relates to tipping. If a business fails, how is that the fault of the customer?

[Velvet]

I wonder what would happen if tipping simply became illegal, and everyone would have to be paid the minimum wage at the least.

[Gpsma]

I always tip very generously. I feel i need to be among the wanna-be Frank Sinatras of the Villages.

I generally tip 20% up to a max of $5.

I refuse to pay some uneducated dolt with limited ambition to do nothing more than bring plates to my table. Its time to build some tuxedo clad robots and get rid of waitstaff.

[JRcorvette]

Have you noticed the food prices in restaurants have gone up dramatically. I'm not sure everybody knows this but last fall, 2024. Florida enacted a law mandating restaurants pay a base wage of $9.98 to their wait staff and a guarantee of $13/hour when combined with the tips.The law gave restaurants time to change their menu prices so they could pay the base wage.
So, why are we continuing to pay 20% tip when there is already a built in tip in the menu prices?
NOTE: the base wage is also going to go up to $10.98 this fall

Most people have no idea what the term Tip even means….
To Insure Prompt service

I tip based on the quality of the service (not the food) however a good server will check the food before bringing it out to make sure it is correct.

If you can not afford to leave a decent tip (20%) then stay home and eat.

[JRcorvette]

I always tip very generously. I feel i need to be among the wanna-be Frank Sinatras of the Villages.

I generally tip 20% up to a max of $5.

I refuse to pay some uneducated dolt with limited ambition to do nothing more than bring plates to my table. Its time to build some tuxedo clad robots and get rid of waitstaff.

WOW…. Just Wow 🤯

[Bill14564]

Most people have no idea what the term Tip even means….
To Insure Prompt service

I tip based on the quality of the service (not the food) however a good server will check the food before bringing it out to make sure it is correct.

If you can not afford to leave a decent tip (20%) then stay home and eat.

Can't argue with that, but please see post #102 (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/2437401-post102.html)

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Worse still! The restaurant is not just scamming us into subsidizing one employee, we're subsidizing the whole business? Probably the boss gets the biggest cut. After all, the boss is the boss, righ?😧😡🤬

That is why you should always tip in cash. Leave the ethics up to the waitstaff - but they'll typically keep the cash tips and not share them, or claim they only got "x" cash tips and kick in a percentage of what they claimed they got, instead of what they actually got.

When the tip is part of a credit/debit card charge, the employees don't receive the tip until the manager has divvied it up and gives it to them (or includes it in their paycheck a week later).

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

True. So, when is National No MoreTip Day. I'm ready to reset to open and honest business practices with no pushing responsibility of on the poor, gullible and unsuspecting customer who just wants something to eat. 😋🤗🤢🤮

I have no problem tipping waitstaff as long as they've done an adequate job of serving.

My problem is with overtipping, and undertipping. Undertipping tells the wait staff that you're cheap, and don't deserve good service next time. Overtipping tells the wait staff that they need to fight over who gets to serve you next time you're in, and tells the manager that he's paying the waitstaff enough, since they have you to make up the difference.

If you have BAD service, don't tip at all. Tell the manager why.

If you have amazing service, tip 20% or even 22%, and tell the manager why.

If you have good, but not amazing service, 18% is sufficient.

If you have only the minimum required service, not bad, but not even good, then 15% is sufficient.

When waitstaff are constantly overtipped, they start expecting it, and start treating normal regular tippers like crap. "Why did table 6 only tip me 20%? What did I do WRONG?" is not something you should EVER expect a server to think.

[retiredguy123]

To clarify, Federal law states that any tip received by a "tipped" employee, as defined by the IRS, is the property of the tipped employee. If any of that money is required to be shared with any non-tipped employee or management it is theft and a violation of Federal law. It is legal for a restaurant to require tipped employees to pool their tips to be shared with other tipped employees, but no one else can receive the pooled money.

[golfing eagles]

I always tip very generously. I feel i need to be among the wanna-be Frank Sinatras of the Villages.

I generally tip 20% up to a max of $5.

I refuse to pay some uneducated dolt with limited ambition to do nothing more than bring plates to my table. Its time to build some tuxedo clad robots and get rid of waitstaff.

Did I read that correctly? Max $5???? So $200,300,400 meal and they get $5?????

[Fastskiguy]

So what system do you propose that won't leave someone feeling they were screwed?

1. You show above how our current system of tipping based on the price of the food screws someone.

2. We could go to a flat fee per table, maybe $40 for a four-top, but then you will feel screwed when you eat alone but get charged the same amount as the table of four next to you.

3, Perhaps a flat, per-person charge of $10 but that just reverses #1 - the diner gets screwed for ordering just the burger and water and the waiter gets screwed by the picky, needy diner.

4. Perhaps no fee or tipping at all where the owner increases prices 20% which goes directly into the hourly wage of the waiter but then they both get screwed when the diner essentially leaves a 20% tip regardless of the quality of the service and the waiter who gets the crazy busy shift earns no more than the waiter who served only a single customer who ate only a burger and water.

It feels like the push by the non-tippers is for #4 but I expect it won't be nearly as attractive when menu prices are raised to pay for it.

I’m for #4 all day long. Employer pays what it takes to get the workforce they need and the price is the price, none of this nebulous tipping bull****. The current state is just ridiculous for everyone. I mean, hey, I have busy days at work just like anybody else but I’m paid by the day. I like your list of options though!

Joe

[bilcon]

Thank you for being a first responder, but I am sure that you made a lot more money per hour than the wait staff makes.

[bilcon]

I always tip very generously. I feel i need to be among the wanna-be Frank Sinatras of the Villages.

I generally tip 20% up to a max of $5.

I refuse to pay some uneducated dolt with limited ambition to do nothing more than bring plates to my table. Its time to build some tuxedo clad robots and get rid of waitstaff.

Would you rather pay the welfare bill for those "uneducated dolts" as you call them?

[Bill14564]

That is why you should always tip in cash. Leave the ethics up to the waitstaff - but they'll typically keep the cash tips and not share them, or claim they only got "x" cash tips and kick in a percentage of what they claimed they got, instead of what they actually got.

When the tip is part of a credit/debit card charge, the employees don't receive the tip until the manager has divvied it up and gives it to them (or includes it in their paycheck a week later).

Always tip in cash and leave the ethics up to the waitstaff while fully expecting the waitstaff to cheat on their taxes???? Sounds like exactly the reason to NEVER tip in cash!

I never had a waitstaff job - I never received my pay the day I earned it - I always waited until payday. Worked well enough for me.

[retiredguy123]

Always tip in cash and leave the ethics up to the waitstaff while fully expecting the waitstaff to cheat on their taxes???? Sounds like exactly the reason to NEVER tip in cash!

I never had a waitstaff job - I never received my pay the day I earned it - I always waited until payday. Worked well enough for me.
I agree. With a $36 trillion debt, I cannot understand why some people want to help others to cheat on their taxes, and to hide income from their employer.

[Whatnext]

Thank you for being a first responder, but I am sure that you made a lot more money per hour than the wait staff makes.

We had a whole lot more responsibility and stress as well. Delivering plates and drinks, is not the same as delivering babies, wreck casualties, fire victims etc.

[fdpaq0580]

You're assuming they work 5 days a week and that Monday/Tuesday nights are just as busy as Friday/Saturday...

I don't see that assumption at all.
Tp me, it is a simple suggestion of why people may choose that work as opposed to other jobs. The earning potential is very good compared to many routine daily 8hr, 40hr per week job options.

[fdpaq0580]

This is what I was going for in my post too. If I order a burger and drink water then the waiter gets screwed. If I order a cocktail, appetizer, fancy main, and a bottle of $$ wine then I get screwed. Yeah yeah it's more work but considering the fancy meal is 4X the tip it's not even close to 4X the work.

And sometimes I honestly just want water and a burger!

Joe

I get you. One customer has $10.00 burger and water. Server brings one glass and one plate. Second customer orders filet mignon, with Yukon gold potatoes and roaster asparagus bottle of Chateau du Pape. $ 84. 99. Server brings one bottle, one glass and one plate. Bottle delivery added 50% to servers delivery. 20% tip? For the burger and water, $2. For the steak and wine, $17. An increase of $15. Labor mark up for one bottle. (850% increase)

[fdpaq0580]

I wonder what would happen if tipping simply became illegal, and everyone would have to be paid the minimum wage at the least.

Making things illegal doesn't stop it. Tipping is a habit that needs to be broken, an expectation that needs to be changed, a scam that needs to be exposed, and a business model that need to be replaced.

I see nothing wrong in a simple showing of appreciation. But when a pleasant little gift/surprise turns into an expectation that forms a significant part of a business strategy that demands customers pay a significant part of employee wages, that, in my book is a scam. Devoid of conscience, ethics, honesty.

[Pugchief]

I always tip very generously.

I generally tip 20% up to a max of $5.

Those two statements are mutually exclusive.


I refuse to pay some uneducated dolt with limited ambition to do nothing more than bring plates to my table. Its time to build some tuxedo clad robots and get rid of waitstaff.

Nice way to speak about others. Your mother would be proud.

[fdpaq0580]

I always tip very generously. I feel i need to be among the wanna-be Frank Sinatras of the Villages.

I generally tip 20% up to a max of $5.

I refuse to pay some uneducated dolt with limited ambition to do nothing more than bring plates to my table. Its time to build some tuxedo clad robots and get rid of waitstaff.

ROBOTS! Cool! 👾🤖

[Bill14564]

…

a business strategy that demands customers pay a significant part of employee wages, that, in my book is a scam. Devoid of conscience, ethics, honesty.

Just who do you think pays all (certainly a significant part) of employee wages for any business?

[Pugchief]

Last night we went to one of our favorite restaurants UpNorth. It's part of a large restaurant group like FMK, but larger.

Back during Covid, they reduced the number of tables by 50% and installed plexiglass in the booths, and obviously business suffered. They added a 4% "surcharge" to the bill to help them cope with the lost profit. It inconspicuously stated on the bottom of the check that you could have the surcharge removed upon request, but most patrons either
1. didn't notice the surcharge was even there, or
2. didn't know there was an option to remove it, or
3. gladly paid it to help support the restaurant during tough times.

#3 was certainly the most common, and the category we fell into. It only amounted to a few bucks on a typical $125 bill, so I was happy to help them cope, even though no one felt the need to help my business during the 3 months we had to shut down, nor the subsequent 4 months where volume was well below normal, but I digress.

Well 5 years later, that stupid surcharge is still on the bill "to help with rising costs". Sorry, not paying it, and I haven't since 2021. If you need to add 4% to every entree, I'm still gonna order what I want, but don't nickel and dime me with BS. I have mentioned how insulting I find it to the manager, but all you get is that it's corporate policy and just ask to remove it if you don't want to pay it.

[jimhoward]

I always tip very generously. I feel i need to be among the wanna-be Frank Sinatras of the Villages.

I generally tip 20% up to a max of $5.

I refuse to pay some uneducated dolt with limited ambition to do nothing more than bring plates to my table. Its time to build some tuxedo clad robots and get rid of waitstaff.

I went to a restaurant in Taipei last year and they had robot servers to deliver food. It was pretty cool. The kitchen put your food on the robots and they delivered it to your table. But they still had human servers taking orders answering questions and clearing dishes and they still got tipped (at the Taiwanese customary rate).

[Pugchief]

There also seems to be some expectation that if a diner is "needy", the tip should be larger.

Don't be needy. Don't be a jerk.

But keep in mind that
your MD doesn't get paid more for needy patients....
your lawyer doesn't get paid more for needy clients...
your retail sales person doesn't get paid more for needy customers...
etc

[fdpaq0580]

Just who do you think pays all (certainly a significant part) of employee wages for any business?

Company offers a product/service for $. I give them $, they give me product/service. Company makes profit. Profit is divided to cover cost of business, such as materials, rent, employee wages or salaries. Successful busines survive, unsuccessful business closes.
Only restaurant not pay some employee proper. Expect pass rresponsibility for covering employee full pay to be "tip/gift" from customer. Embarrassing customer by defamation. "Tightwad, cheapskate, unsympathetic to poor, underpaid employee, no good meannie ahole". Shame shame business owner cheat employee and make customer look bad. Shameless business owner cheat employee and guilt trip, defame customer.
Yes, I do go out on occasion and I tip. Nut I still think it's wrong. Roboserice? I hope my accent doesn't screw up my odaa.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

We had a whole lot more responsibility and stress as well. Delivering plates and drinks, is not the same as delivering babies, wreck casualties, fire victims etc.

You were also not making minimum wage with no benefits, paid only for the hours you actually work, no breaks, no life insurance, and no opportunity for full-time work or promotion unless someone quit or died.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

To clarify, Federal law states that any tip received by a "tipped" employee, as defined by the IRS, is the property of the tipped employee. If any of that money is required to be shared with any non-tipped employee or management it is theft and a violation of Federal law. It is legal for a restaurant to require tipped employees to pool their tips to be shared with other tipped employees, but no one else can receive the pooled money.

The bolded part of what you state is incorrect. Here's the actual paragraph pertaining to that point:

Employers that do not take a section 3(m)(2)(A) tip credit. An employer that pays its tipped employees the full minimum wage and does not take a tip credit may impose a tip pooling arrangement that includes dishwashers, cooks, or other employees in the establishment who are not employed in an occupation in which employees customarily and regularly receive tips. An employer may not receive tips from such a tip pool and may not allow supervisors and managers to receive tips from the tip pool.

So yes, employers may absolutely require tip pooling with the bussers, cooks, hostess, and other employees who normally wouldn't get tipped, as long as the wait staff is paid the federal minimum wage (which is $7.25/hour), before any tipped income is applied. The employer and shift supervisor and shop manager can't receive any of that pool, but all the other non-management employees can, as long as the minimum wage requirement is met pre-tip.

[retiredguy123]

The bolded part of what you state is incorrect. Here's the actual paragraph pertaining to that point:



So yes, employers may absolutely require tip pooling with the bussers, cooks, hostess, and other employees who normally wouldn't get tipped, as long as the wait staff is paid the federal minimum wage (which is $7.25/hour), before any tipped income is applied. The employer and shift supervisor and shop manager can't receive any of that pool, but all the other non-management employees can, as long as the minimum wage requirement is met pre-tip.
I understand the rule, but the IRS has a special tax rule for tipped employees. They are only required to pay income tax on 8 percent of the gross income of the business as pro-rated by the employer on the W-2. I am not sure how the IRS views this situation, but I think the tipped employees may no longer be eligible for the 8 percent rule. Also, how would the employer report the pooled tip income received by the non-tipped employees, who are not eligible for the 8 percent rule? It sounds like the tipped employees may lose their special status as tipped employees. Very confusing. As a restaurant server, I don't think I would work for an employer who shared my tip income with non-tipped employees.

[fdpaq0580]

I understand the rule, but the IRS has a special tax rule for tipped employees. They are only required to pay income tax on 8 percent of the gross income of the business as pro-rated by the employer on the W-2. I am not sure how the IRS views this situation, but I think the tipped employees may no longer be eligible for the 8 percent rule. Also, how would the employer report the pooled tip income received by the non-tipped employees, who are not eligible for the 8 percent rule? It sounds like the tipped employees may lose their special status as tipped employees. Very confusing. As a restaurant server, I don't think I would work for an employer who shared my tip income with non-tipped employees.

Tip sharing, from a tax stand point is a nightmare. From a business stand point is a basket of worms. From a personal stand point can create hard feelings and animosity among co-workers. From a customer stand point, it bothers me that my gift to the one person that most impacted my dining experience may be robbed of some, if not all of the gift meant for that individual. Tipping, as practiced, is an onerous and odious way of getting service workers properly compensated for their work.

[thelegges]

Simple solution, Uber Eats. Give the waitstaff a break from those who consider them lower class.

Since Uber Eats prices are listed at a higher price, customer happy that no tip is required (even though the price is 15-25% higher than eating in).
Zero tip to Uber not a big deal, (they know where you live):swear:.

I bet most will eat right out of the container instead of plating. Win for all

[Rainger99]

Question.

Two waitresses and the service is identical.

Do you tip based solely on service? Or if one is really cute and the other is not very attractive, does that impact the tip?

[thelegges]

Question.

Two waitresses and the service is identical.

Do you tip based solely on service? Or if one is really cute and the other is not very attractive, does that impact the tip?

65yo VS 20yo
220lb VS 100lb
Blond VS Ethnic
Med Student VS High School

Many would tip the same for either for excellent service, a job well done…

The balance would leave $2 no matter what.

[Bill14564]

Question.

Two waitresses and the service is identical.

Do you tip based solely on service? Or if one is really cute and the other is not very attractive, does that impact the tip?

I would tip solely on service. The calculations I do to determine the tip amount don't consider appearance at all.

Attitude matters more than looks. If I'm trying to decide where in the 18% - 22% range to tip, cute won't change the needle but a bad attitude certainly will.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I understand the rule, but the IRS has a special tax rule for tipped employees. They are only required to pay income tax on 8 percent of the gross income of the business as pro-rated by the employer on the W-2. I am not sure how the IRS views this situation, but I think the tipped employees may no longer be eligible for the 8 percent rule. Also, how would the employer report the pooled tip income received by the non-tipped employees, who are not eligible for the 8 percent rule? It sounds like the tipped employees may lose their special status as tipped employees. Very confusing. As a restaurant server, I don't think I would work for an employer who shared my tip income with non-tipped employees.

I wouldn't either. I quit one waitress gig because of it, and Gator's Dockside in Spanish Springs shut down *IN PART* because of it.

*I say in part, because there were a lot of things that led to it being shut down. Post-COVID business never really picked back up and they lost most of their staff. When they rehired, they couldn't be very picky because all the "good" staffers had already moved on to better jobs, or quit entirely to go to school to find an actual career. What was left, was "people who didn't care about customer service and just wanted a paycheck." They were paid poorly, they did a bad job, morale was down the drain, the management was more and more frustrated and took it out on the staff, and the staff were sub-par, and the customer base just really stopped caring about going there at all.

[retiredguy123]

I wouldn't either. I quit one waitress gig because of it, and Gator's Dockside in Spanish Springs shut down *IN PART* because of it.

*I say in part, because there were a lot of things that led to it being shut down. Post-COVID business never really picked back up and they lost most of their staff. When they rehired, they couldn't be very picky because all the "good" staffers had already moved on to better jobs, or quit entirely to go to school to find an actual career. What was left, was "people who didn't care about customer service and just wanted a paycheck." They were paid poorly, they did a bad job, morale was down the drain, the management was more and more frustrated and took it out on the staff, and the staff were sub-par, and the customer base just really stopped caring about going there at all.
I would add that it is bad enough for an employer to expect customers to pay the wages of tipped employees, but to also expect the tipped employees to pay the wages of the non-tipped employees is absurd.

[fdpaq0580]

65yo VS 20yo
220lb VS 100lb
Blond VS Ethnic
Med Student VS High School

Many would tip the same for either for excellent service, a job well done…

The balance would leave $2 no matter what.

Depending on the order, $2 might be 20% or better. Just sayin'.

[fdpaq0580]

Simple solution, Uber Eats. Give the waitstaff a break from those who consider them lower class.

Since Uber Eats prices are listed at a higher price, customer happy that no tip is required (even though the price is 15-25% higher than eating in).
Zero tip to Uber not a big deal, (they know where you live):swear:.

I bet most will eat right out of the container instead of plating. Win for all

Uhhh? "they know where you live"? So, we are back to customer intimidation/manipulation, even at your home. Oh, 🤬!

[fdpaq0580]

I would add that it is bad enough for an employer to expect customers to pay the wages of tipped employees, but to also expect the tipped employees to pay the wages of the non-tipped employees is absurd.

Worse then absurd. It should be criminal. It is certainly unethical. Ban tipping and pay an acceptable wage for the job. Ultimately everyone will be better off. Just mho.

[JoMar]

Tipping is a personal choice so why do people even ask on here? Silly. If you don't want to tip then don't. It's not that hard a decision.

[Bill14564]

I would add that it is bad enough for an employer to expect customers to pay the wages of tipped employees, but to also expect the tipped employees to pay the wages of the non-tipped employees is absurd.

How would the wages of tipped employees be paid if not by the customers? You don't like tipping? Fine, but how will you react to a 20% price increase? The money has to come from somewhere.

[retiredguy123]

Tipping is a personal choice so why do people even ask on here? Silly. If you don't want to tip then don't. It's not that hard a decision.
For some, it is a hard decision because of the atmosphere of intimidation that has been created by the restaurant industry. If you are immune to the intimidation, there no problem.

[retiredguy123]

How would the wages of tipped employees be paid if not by the customers? You don't like tipping? Fine, but how will you react to a 20% price increase? The money has to come from somewhere.
I think most people, including me, would be happy to pay higher prices if tipping was not expected or allowed.

[Pugchief]

Tipping is a personal choice so why do people even ask on here? Silly. If you don't want to tip then don't. It's not that hard a decision.

Sorry, no. If you don't want to tip, don't eat at table service restaurants. You don't have to agree with the culture, but it is expected of you to conform.

[jimhoward]

Restaurants are not the only place where a percentage of the sale goes to the person taking the order.

Most of the time, if you buy a product or service, and there is a person in the loop taking your order, that person is getting paid a percentage. And its not based on how many hours they work, but on how big the bill is. Many many businesses and industries work that way. Everyone in the world is not paid by the hour or on salary.

In other businesses we would call it an incentive or a bonus or a commission and bury the cost in the price of the product or service. But restaurants call it a TIP and customers pay it directly and control the amount

A TIP is viewed as an entirely different thing than a sales commission. But at the end of the day its the same result. The employees is getting a low base and a percentage of the restaurant's revenue associated with their effort.

Its not like tipping a hotel Ballman or a Valet where you tip based on how many bags they carry, or that they brought you your undamaged car promptly. Its instead a percentage of the bill. So it is really a TIP? I would say its just a sales commission in Sheep's clothing. Which is fine.

The other thing about restaurants is that many view waiting tables as a menial position or a job for kids and therefore not deserving of a high rate of pay. The thought is that Server should be paid a "living wage" maybe a few bucks above the minimum and by the hour. The fact that they asked me if a want a cocktail and told me the special doesn't make them a salesperson. To that I would say you control the TIP amount. It is only social pressure that is pushing it higher. You have that power in a restaurant, which you don't in other businesses.

[thelegges]

Uhhh? "they know where you live"? So, we are back to customer intimidation/manipulation, even at your home. Oh, 🤬!

Uber driver has options on delivery to except or reject. So if mileage, area, or difficult delivery, the driver can reject the delivery, and it passes to the next driver.
Eventually if the same address is consistently rejected. No intimidation manipulation just…….NO FOOD FOR YOU….
More than once have picked up an order when the delivery driver walked in and quit. 11 deliveries and total of $7 in tips doesn’t pay for gas.

[fdpaq0580]

Tipping is a personal choice so why do people even ask on here? Silly. If you don't want to tip then don't. It's not that hard a decision.

For many, probably most, it actually is, for those who want buck the tide of current practice. Public is told that tipping makes others think you are nice, so you begin tipping. "The pie and coffee was fine. $2.50? Here's $3. Keep the change". You're a nice guy. Restaurant owner says "Hey, there is money in tips. I bet I could start paying the waitress less and she'll make it up in tips" word gets out and nice people like you want to help, so you tip a little more. Some how word gets out that "it is customary to tip 5%". So nice people tip 5%. But somehow 5% is now chump change. Nice people give 8%. You're nice, so 8% hits the table.
The unknown, but often quoted experts, "they", have let it be known that 20% is the current standard, but nice folks, like you and I always round up or go 25% ... or more.
Unlike a sales commission or bonus, it is built into the deal. The amount is between the sales rep and the manager/owner. The customer never has to write a check to the sales rep to pay a tip.

[Nell57]

What happened to 15% for a tip? They have a built-in system of getting more money - when restaurants raise their prices the tip is raised too. But really I don’t like tipping. For example, we just had a mini-split put in our garage. The guy worked until 8 p.m. Should we have given him a tip? How much?

The idea that some people get tipped and others don’t is bizarre.

Yes, I do tip workmen who come in my home. IF they do a good job.
It’s easy enough to give them $20 and tell them to buy themselves dinner.

[fdpaq0580]

Yes, I do tip workmen who come in my home. IF they do a good job.
It’s easy enough to give them $20 and tell them to buy themselves dinner.

Just my opinion, but I think you might be part of the problem. The workers are, very likely, getting full hourly pay plus overtime. Even at straight hourly rate trades people generally make good money. A big smile and "Thank You" should be enough.

[Rainger99]

Yes, I do tip workmen who come in my home. IF they do a good job.
It’s easy enough to give them $20 and tell them to buy themselves dinner.

If the man is self employed, do you tip him?

[fdpaq0580]

If the man is self employed, do you tip him?

I was taught that you don't tip owners or management (salaried employees).

[PatriciaPoole]

The menu prices are higher because the products from the venders are more expensive, not to pay the employees.

[fdpaq0580]

The menu prices are higher because the products from the venders are more expensive, not to pay the employees.

So, tipping is unnecessary as all workers receive full pay and are fully compensated for the work they do.
My next tip will be, "have a nice day!"

[shut the front door]

Tips aren't supposed to be part of a server's paycheck from their employer. They're supposed to be in ADDITION to it. As a "thank you" from the customer directly, for doing a good (or better) job. There are people with extreme views in either direction:

People who think it's good to give at least 20%, and up to 40% of their tab, usually because they want to show off how generous they are. Those are the people who think they can buy their way into heaven.

People who think that they shouldn't tip at all, because the boss is paying the employee, and the employee is owed nothing by the customer. Those are the people who don't think they have to earn their place in heaven.

And then the people in the middle like me: old-fashioned. Traditional. If service is adequate, no complaints but nothing spectacular, I tip 15%. If service is good, but not great, they get 18%. If service is outstanding, they get 20%, plus one penny, plus a compliment to the manager to let them know their employee was responsible for maintaining high standards for their restaurant. If service was BAD, they get no tip, and a complaint to the manager.

I tip curb-side folks if they have to come out in the rain. I toss the change into the tip jar when I buy something at a take-out joint that has one - sometimes. Those are people who are already earning minimum wage or better, they are not "tipped employees."

Wow.

[Pugchief]

The menu prices are higher because the products from the venders are more expensive, not to pay the employees.

Fact check: Partially True.

Products from vendOrs are certainly higher, but so are labor costs.

[Aces4]

Tipping is ridiculous. Pay an hourly rate that is commensurate to the work involved and knock off the tipping cr*p. We seldom go out to a restaurant anymore, food at home is so much better and healthy. We know how it's been handled and since food is for sustenance and nothing more, it works for us. We highly recommend this method for others and maybe restaurants will realign their employment compensation to a reasonable resolution. When a physical therapist works part-time in a restaurant vs fulltime at their degreed education for even better money, something is askew.

After having enough subpar meals being served through the years, we never send food back for the spitters, we just leave it on the plate. Don't bother adjusting our bill for the poor food, we won't be back.

One of the tipping points for our decisions was calling in an order for a 14" pizza for over $20/ from a restaurant. We waited on hold for a couple of minutes to place the order, drove to pick up the pizza, waited in a hallway for the pizza, drove back home with the pizza where we had set up our own utensils, beverages, napkins and plates and cleaning up afterward, disposing of the cardboard box. The real kicker was the tip container on the counter where we paid for the pizza. Really? We're done with them. We can make a much better pizza for half that cost and we don't have to leave the house. Easy peasy.

[Stu from NYC]

Tipping is ridiculous. Pay an hourly rate that is commensurate to the work involved and knock off the tipping cr*p. We seldom go out to a restaurant anymore, food at home is so much better and healthy. We know how it's been handled and since food is for sustenance and nothing more, it works for us. We highly recommend this method for others and maybe restaurants will realign their employment compensation to a reasonable resolution. When a physical therapist works part-time in a restaurant vs fulltime at their degreed education for even better money, something is askew.

After having enough subpar meals being served through the years, we never send food back for the spitters, we just leave it on the plate. Don't bother adjusting our bill for the poor food, we won't be back.

One of the tipping points for our decisions was calling in an order for a 14" pizza for over $20/ from a restaurant. We waited on hold for a couple of minutes to place the order, drove to pick up the pizza, waited in a hallway for the pizza, drove back home with the pizza where we had set up our own utensils, beverages, napkins and plates and cleaning up afterward, disposing of the cardboard box. The real kicker was the tip container on the counter where we paid for the pizza. Really? We're done with them. We can make a much better pizza for half that cost and we don't have to leave the house. Easy peasy.

If we are served at a table we tip, if the food is handed to us in a box or bag we do not.

[J1ceasar]

Imagine what people that bag your groceries get paid, for for me that means you don't have enough skills to make more than $13 an hour and you should be going to college or learning a trade.

Of course if you don't want to earn more you don't have to and by that I mean I see a lot of people semi-retired just getting by and very happy to get $13 an hour.
When I started work back in the '70s I was paid a dollar and five cents an hour

[BrianL99]

Making things illegal doesn't stop it. Tipping is a habit that needs to be broken, an expectation that needs to be changed, a scam that needs to be exposed, and a business model that need to be replaced.

I see nothing wrong in a simple showing of appreciation. But when a pleasant little gift/surprise turns into an expectation that forms a significant part of a business strategy that demands customers pay a significant part of employee wages, that, in my book is a scam. Devoid of conscience, ethics, honesty.

My thoughts exactly. You can't check out of almost any business, without the payment system "expecting" a Tip. Yesterday, it was at Subway.

It's getting worse and more and more people are complaining.

I recently (last week) bought the Domain Name, "NoMoreTipping.com".

Issue organizing isn't my thing, so if anyone has any ideas, I'm open!

[Rainger99]

Now that tips are no longer taxed, should the “suggested” amount be 10-15%?

[Rainger99]

Interesting article on tipping.


Tipping Culture in America - Public Sees a Changed Landscape | Pew Research Center (https://www.pewresearch.org/2023/11/09/tipping-culture-in-america-public-sees-a-changed-landscape/)

[Stu from NYC]

Now that tips are no longer taxed, should the “suggested” amount be 10-15%?

Have been averaging 20% but now not sure what we will do in the future.

[Bill14564]

Have been averaging 20% but now not sure what we will do in the future.

20% is easy to figure in my head so I imagine I will stick with that.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Thanks to overtippers and people who tip on things they really don't need to tip on at all, I now get "looks" from cashiers at take-out.
Here's a tip to the customers:

The cashier isn't bringing you a menu.
She's not bringing you water.
She's not asking what you want to order.
She's not setting your plate.
She's not letting you sit.
She's not bringing you your meal to your table.
She's not asking if you're enjoying your meal.
She's not refilling the water glass that she never gave you in the first place.

What she is doing:
Waiting for YOU to come up to HER and tell her what you want.
Taking your money.
Ignoring you until your food is ready.
Handing you the bag.
Thanking you for visiting and inviting you to come again (maybe - some of them don't even do that).

You don't owe a tip for that. You really should avoid tipping for that. These are not considered "tipped employees" and they all make a *minimum* of the state minimum wage, many get more than that.

These are not people who are working here full time with medical benefits expecting to be able to live off what they earn here. Most of them are part time, get no benefits at all except maybe a discount on the food they buy during their shift.

The more tips they get, the more tips they expect, until they get to a point where they expect one, and get upset when they don't get one. Don't tip the chick at the Burger King counter. Seriously - just don't do that. You make it more expensive for everyone else to get the MINIMUM quality customer service that they're getting paid to give us all.

[Rainger99]

20% is easy to figure in my head so I imagine I will stick with that.

You must be a math whiz.
10% is much easier to calculate.
If the bill is $17.35, just move the decimal point over. If you double that, it makes it much more difficult.

[Rainger99]

So if there were a law passed that all waiters and waitresses received minimum wage, would you still tip?

How about if they were required to get double the minimum wage?

[Bill14564]

You must be a math whiz.
10% is much easier to calculate.
If the bill is $17.35, just move the decimal point over. If you double that, it makes it much more difficult.

If that is for a meal and not just pouring beers then $34.70 -> $3.50 -> $3.65 -> either $4.65 or 5.65.

Believe it helps with mental acuity in my old age.

[Bill14564]

So if there were a law passed that all waiters and waitresses received minimum wage, would you still tip?

How about if they were required to get double the minimum wage?

I would probably leave the change: $17.35 -> $18

[fdpaq0580]

I would probably leave the change: $17.35 -> $18

Like at the grocery store. Round up to the next dollar and the change goes to charity. Although, many may argue that "tips" are charity.

[Skip]

No income tax on tips (and no income tax on overtime) is unfair to both regular hourly and salary workers. Why should servers bring home income money that is tax free?

Skip

[Rainger99]

No income tax on tips (and no income tax on overtime) is unfair to both regular hourly and salary workers. Why should servers bring home income money that is tax free?

Skip

I think the theory is that the servers are underpaid (although I have always heard that many servers do not report cash tips anyway).

And while some are underpaid, many are not. A friend of mine owns a nice restaurant and she said that some of her servers make a lot of money with tips.

As for overtime, many government workers and construction workers are well paid before overtime. However, I think that has income limits on it.

I don’t understand why most European countries can afford to pay their servers a decent wage so that tipping is not expected while Americans cannot do it. Restaurant prices in Europe don’t seem to that much higher than in America especially when the tip and sales tax is included in the price listed on the menu.

[Velvet]

Interesting. My go to behavior is I start with 15%. Good service, I add, bad service, I subtract. I do not tip for take out, at a coffee establishment or anywhere else where the service staff does not do personal service. I think all people deserve proper wages but it should be given by their employer who can reflect this in their prices.

[BrianL99]

No income tax on tips (and no income tax on overtime) is unfair to both regular hourly and salary workers. Why should servers bring home income money that is tax free?

Skip

So if you're a Consultant and charge a client, $100/hour ...

After Federal Taxes, you have about $75 left.

After you pay both sides of FICA, you $60 left.

Let's assume your "overhead" (office, equipment, phone, Insurance, etc.) is $10/hour

You now have $50 left.

If you take yourself to dinner & it cost you $40 + 25% Tip, you have ZERO left.

If your waitress is handling 5 tables, 10 people ... she just made $100/hour and gets to keep it all.

Better to quit the Consulting business and be a server.

[bopat]

There’s an expectation for doing your job, then there’s the extra effort put forth. I don’t mind paying for the extra effort, but to do the basic minimum, you shouldn’t expect more from me.

Furthermore, just like when I donate to charity, I like to know exactly where the money goes. What % actually benefits those in need vs the administrators? Same with those buttons on the credit card machine, if I select 15%, who exactly gets that tip?

[shut the front door]

Like at the grocery store. Round up to the next dollar and the change goes to charity. Although, many may argue that "tips" are charity.

I absolutely do not do all this "round up for charity" nonsense. I take my hard earned money and donate to the charity of my choice . I do not give this money to Publix so that they can give to a charity and claim my donation on their taxes.

[fdpaq0580]

Interesting. My go to behavior is I start with 15%. Good service, I add, bad service, I subtract. I do not tip for take out, at a coffee establishment or anywhere else where the service staff does not do personal service. I think all people deserve proper wages but it should be given by their employer who can reflect this in their prices.

Good service? When you are a waiter/waitress everything I have experienced in most restaurants is what I would expect as basic job requirements. It's not like they give you a back rub, shine your shoes or spoon feed you.

[Snakster66]

No income tax on tips (and no income tax on overtime) is unfair to both regular hourly and salary workers. Why should servers bring home income money that is tax free?

Skip

One could argue that the tip is a gift of appreciation and therefore, not income. (I assume at some point, someone has...and lost)

[fdpaq0580]

I absolutely do not do all this "round up for charity" nonsense. I take my hard earned money and donate to the charity of my choice . I do not give this money to Publix so that they can give to a charity and claim my donation on their taxes.

Good for you. And remember, charity begins at home. That way you can continue to afford to shop at Pubelicks and tip your waiter/waitress for fulfilling their job requirements.

[Bill14564]

Good service? When you are a waiter/waitress everything I have experienced in most restaurants is what I would expect as basic job requirements. It's not like they give you a back rub, shine your shoes or spoon feed you.

I wonder if your tipping practices follow your comments on tipping and are reflected in the way you are treated by the servers who recognize you.

We generally get great service - there just might be a correlation.

[fdpaq0580]

One could argue that the tip is a gift of appreciation and therefore, not income. (I assume at some point, someone has...and lost)

And you would be correct. Have a chocolate cigar.
A tip is what you get at the race track.
A gratuity is what you give someone who has gone out of their way to make your experience exceptionally memorable ... in a good way, that is. Calling me Hon (hun?) and telling me to have a blest day hardly counts as making my experience "exceptionally memorable" in a good way.

[fdpaq0580]

I wonder if your tipping practices follow your comments on tipping and are reflected in the way you are treated by the servers who recognize you.

We generally get great service - there just might be a correlation.

Wonder no more. I am treated as well as most folks. We only frequent a couple of places often enough to be of notice. We usually tip at 20%, as that seems to be the standard (as far as we can tell).
I, we, follow local custom wherever we are. Here, people tip, so we do as well. But just because we follow custom doesn't mean we agree with it. I don't say "grace" before I eat, but if I'm with someone who does, I respect their feelings. Just because I tip doesn't mean I agree with the practice. I believe tipping allows restaurants to report lower taxable bottom line per the "out-the-door" expense per customer. When two clients orders require the same amount of work expense (number of dishes, silverware, glasses and effort for the server) and the only difference is the chopped steak vs filet mignon, coke vs cocktail, green beans vs roasted asparagus, fries vs baked potatoes, ice cream vs tiramisou. One meal twice the cost of the other, but no difference in worker effort. Tip, imho, should be the same for both. Equal pay for equal work. Do you disagree?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Jeez I think y'all need to stop posting until you start reading. The new bill doesn't have "no tax on tips." That is propaganda, it's not true, it's not in the bill. If you'd actually read the bill you'd know that.

It's a tax DEDUCTION - not a tax-free income. You get to deduct $25,000 from your tipped wages at the end of the year. If you were tipped well all year long, at a fancy restaurant where the average tip was $50, and you had 10 tables per night (that's $500 just in tips), and you worked 5 nights a week (that's $2500 per week) then your yearly TIPPED wage will be $130,000 just in tips alone. You can deduct $25,000 from that, and you pay income tax on the balance.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Wonder no more. I am treated as well as most folks. We only frequent a couple of places often enough to be of notice. We usually tip at 20%, as that seems to be the standard (as far as we can tell).
I, we, follow local custom wherever we are. Here, people tip, so we do as well. But just because we follow custom doesn't mean we agree with it. I don't say "grace" before I eat, but if I'm with someone who does, I respect their feelings. Just because I tip doesn't mean I agree with the practice. I believe tipping allows restaurants to report lower taxable bottom line per the "out-the-door" expense per customer. When two clients orders require the same amount of work expense (number of dishes, silverware, glasses and effort for the server) and the only difference is the chopped steak vs filet mignon, coke vs cocktail, green beans vs roasted asparagus, fries vs baked potatoes, ice cream vs tiramisou. One meal twice the cost of the other, but no difference in worker effort. Tip, imho, should be the same for both. Equal pay for equal work. Do you disagree?

Back in the day, my grandmother used to tip $2 for a table of 2 adults, 2 children. Fifty cents tip per person. No matter what she ordered, or how expensive the tab was. Now, this was back in the 1960's-1980's, when the highest minimum wage was $3.80/hour. So an extra $2 for a table of 4 taking up space for just 45 minutes was actually not bad at all. Especially if you had more than one table to serve during that hour. In 1960, $2 was actually a lot of money. Minimum wage was just $1/hour. She said the waitress was either worth it, or not worth it. So if she didn't tip at all, it was because the waitress did something wrong. If the waitress got a tip, it was because she did her job.

[Bill14564]

Jeez I think y'all need to stop posting until you start reading. The new bill doesn't have "no tax on tips." That is propaganda, it's not true, it's not in the bill. If you'd actually read the bill you'd know that.

It's a tax DEDUCTION - not a tax-free income. You get to deduct $25,000 from your tipped wages at the end of the year. If you were tipped well all year long, at a fancy restaurant where the average tip was $50, and you had 10 tables per night (that's $500 just in tips), and you worked 5 nights a week (that's $2500 per week) then your yearly TIPPED wage will be $130,000 just in tips alone. You can deduct $25,000 from that, and you pay income tax on the balance.

Please explain the difference between “tax free” and “DEDUCTION” and subtracting $25,000 before calculating taxes. If I subtract that amount as a deduction before calculating taxes then it really feels like I made that income tax free.

Yes, it is only $25,000 but it is a deduction that most of us won’t get.

Yes(2), it is a deduction from Federal income tax but is still subject to other withholding taxes and probably state income tax. But again, it’s something.

[CFrance]

We had lunch at Amerikanos today. My husband (former labor relations, interested in this) said to the waitress, "None of my business, but can I ask you if you'd rather have minimum wage or tips?" Her answer: Tips! She said she makes $9.98/hour (state law), and during the season does fantastically thanks to tips. Not as good off season, but overall more than just minimum wage.
That's one person's answer...

[Aces4]

No income tax on tips (and no income tax on overtime) is unfair to both regular hourly and salary workers. Why should servers bring home income money that is tax free?

Skip

No income tax on overtime is very fair to regular hourly and salary workers. Salary workers can negotiate their terms and value to the company. Few people absolutely love overtime and avoid it at all costs. Mandatory overtime is an onerus to many. Some workers need the overtime to make the ends meet in the middle even though they would rather not be doing it. Try standing in a factory which runs about 100 degrees on a summer day, lifting product, running presses and tell me how you would enjoy mandatory overtime. Those are people from the working crowd so you can enjoy your retirement.

AI: Overtime work, while offering potential financial gains, can lead to several drawbacks, including decreased productivity, increased health risks, and a strained work-life balance. Excessive overtime can lead to burnout, impacting both physical and mental health.

[Rainger99]

Salary workers can negotiate their terms and value to the company.

I was a salaried worker. I never negotiated the terms of my employment and to my knowledge, no one at my level did. I think senior vice presidents and above did that.

And I worked overtime most weeks - I just didn’t get paid for it.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Please explain the difference between “tax free” and “DEDUCTION” and subtracting $25,000 before calculating taxes. If I subtract that amount as a deduction before calculating taxes then it really feels like I made that income tax free.

Yes, it is only $25,000 but it is a deduction that most of us won’t get.

Yes(2), it is a deduction from Federal income tax but is still subject to other withholding taxes and probably state income tax. But again, it’s something.

There's no state income tax in Florida, so that doesn't apply here (though yes, it does apply in states with state income tax).

If you earn more than $25,000 in tips in a year, you have to pay federal income tax on everything above the first $25,000. That means - it isn't "no tax on tips." It's "tax on all tips beyond the first $25,000."

Math: $24.04 per hour is what you'd earn, just in tips, to earn $25,000 in tips in a year if you work 20 hours per week at your tip-paying job.

If you work the dinner shift at the FMK restaurants or places like Legacy Lopez CC, you'll be serving more than two tables per hour, and you'll likely be averaging more than $24.04 per hour in tips as a result. Add all those hourly tips up and at the end of the year, you will have earned more than the deduction you're allowed to take, and pay federal income tax on the balance. PLUS you still pay federal income tax on your hourly wages.

[fdpaq0580]

We had lunch at Amerikanos today. My husband (former labor relations, interested in this) said to the waitress, "None of my business, but can I ask you if you'd rather have minimum wage or tips?" Her answer: Tips! She said she makes $9.98/hour (state law), and during the season does fantastically thanks to tips. Not as good off season, but overall more than just minimum wage.
That's one person's answer...

No surprise here. My focus is not on the waitstaff. It's the customer position.
The customer pays a price, part of which goes to cover employee pay. So, waiter gets a cut. Tax is added. The comes the tip. Now the wait person has an opportunity to dramatically increase their "cut" through sweet talking, cajoling, persuasion, etc. Pitty the poor server. A good actor can make a lot more than a bad actor. If it wasn't for tipping, restaurants would be paying more tax. Servers would be tax liable for all their income. Customers wouldn't have to figure the appropriate cost of being called "Hon". He/she ain't your friend. It's about getting the biggest present they can from you. It's a con, a game, a scam, that we all play. But it isn't an honest hourly wage for labor. Restaurant owners are complicit in this for their own reasons.
Tonight's nice dinner out and the waitress pocketed $20+, on top of her regular pay, for the 10 minutes that she spent on us.

[Rainger99]

So which are the deserving category of workers that should get a tax break and which are the ones that don’t deserve the tax break?

If the concern is that the workers should be paid minimum wage, if workers aren’t tipped, the employer is required to pay minimum wage.

I believe that California requires that employers pay the full minimum wage regardless of tips. So if a waiter is making $25 an hour in tips, they still get the minimum wage of $16.50 an hour.

If you go to California do you tip less?

[fdpaq0580]

So which are the deserving category of workers that should get a tax break and which are the ones that don’t deserve the tax break?

If the concern is that the workers should be paid minimum wage, if workers aren’t tipped, the employer is required to pay minimum wage.

I believe that California requires that employers pay the full minimum wage regardless of tips. So if a waiter is making $25 an hour in tips, they still get the minimum wage of $16.50 an hour.

If you go to California do you tip less?

Why aren't all "employees" getting paid in full by their [/B]employers[/B]. Why are we giving extra money to people who have a job and an income. Where is the employee loyalty if the customer pays a greater portion of the employees income. Earlier I said our waitress this evening at a local Villages restaurant, got a $20 for our meal, and about the same from other couple at our table. She had 5 tables I could see. Three tables of 4 and two tables of 6. $40 from our table and, presumably, the same from the other 4 tables. That could reasonably be $200 p/h. $200 per hour? In TIPS! If the waitress isn't getting every dollar we gave to her, who is?

[Bill14564]

There's no state income tax in Florida, so that doesn't apply here (though yes, it does apply in states with state income tax).

If you earn more than $25,000 in tips in a year, you have to pay federal income tax on everything above the first $25,000. That means - it isn't "no tax on tips." It's "tax on all tips beyond the first $25,000."

Math: $24.04 per hour is what you'd earn, just in tips, to earn $25,000 in tips in a year if you work 20 hours per week at your tip-paying job.

If you work the dinner shift at the FMK restaurants or places like Legacy Lopez CC, you'll be serving more than two tables per hour, and you'll likely be averaging more than $24.04 per hour in tips as a result. Add all those hourly tips up and at the end of the year, you will have earned more than the deduction you're allowed to take, and pay federal income tax on the balance. PLUS you still pay federal income tax on your hourly wages.

You can spend a lot of space working math problems but that doesn’t change the fact that this deduction, only available to some tipped workers, will exempt the first $25,000 in tips from federal income tax.

[Bill14564]

So which are the deserving category of workers that should get a tax break and which are the ones that don’t deserve the tax break?

That decision was political.

If you go to California do you tip less?
When in Rome…

[Aces4]

No surprise here. My focus is not on the waitstaff. It's the customer position.
The customer pays a price, part of which goes to cover employee pay. So, waiter gets a cut. Tax is added. The comes the tip. Now the wait person has an opportunity to dramatically increase their "cut" through sweet talking, cajoling, persuasion, etc. Pitty the poor server. A good actor can make a lot more than a bad actor. If it wasn't for tipping, restaurants would be paying more tax. Servers would be tax liable for all their income. Customers wouldn't have to figure the appropriate cost of being called "Hon". He/she ain't your friend. It's about getting the biggest present they can from you. It's a con, a game, a scam, that we all play. But it isn't an honest hourly wage for labor. Restaurant owners are complicit in this for their own reasons.
Tonight's nice dinner out and the waitress pocketed $20+, on top of her regular pay, for the 10 minutes that she spent on us.

Eat at home, problem solved.

[Aces4]

I was a salaried worker. I never negotiated the terms of my employment and to my knowledge, no one at my level did. I think senior vice presidents and above did that.

And I worked overtime most weeks - I just didn’t get paid for it.

Under the working conditions I described? Our children are salaried too but if they aren't salaried enough for their efforts, they would change jobs and do just fine.

[Rainger99]

That decision was political.

I think every bill passed by congress is political.

But if you could make the decision, which group of workers should get the tax break? Explain how you reached your conclusion.

[Rainger99]

Under the working conditions I described? Our children are salaried too but if they aren't salaried enough for their efforts, they would change jobs and do just fine.

You say that if your children aren’t salaried enough for their efforts they would change jobs and do just fine.

Doesn’t that same rationale apply to the person working in a factory which runs about 100 degrees on a summer day, lifting product, running presses?

And to answer your question, my working conditions were not that bad. But I don't think the tax benefits for overtime are limited to workers with those conditions.

Many government employees get overtime. This includes transit workers, the post office, TSA, VA, CPB, and FEMA. Most of those jobs are hard to get. And the people that I know that work in those areas usually want overtime.

[retiredguy123]

You say that if your children aren’t salaried enough for their efforts they would change jobs and do just fine.

Doesn’t that same rationale apply to the person working in a factory which runs about 100 degrees on a summer day, lifting product, running presses?

And to answer your question, my working conditions were not that bad. But I don't think the tax benefits for overtime are limited to workers with those conditions.

Many government employees get overtime. This includes transit workers, the post office, TSA, VA, CPB, and FEMA. Most of those jobs are hard to get. And the people that I know that work in those areas usually want overtime.
Regarding your last paragraph, ALL Federal employees who work on the GS pay scale are actually hourly workers. Their annual pay is based on 40 hours per week, and it is illegal to require additional work without paying them overtime if they file for it. This even includes GS-15 white collar employees who are at the top of the Government pay scale. As an Inspector General, I handled several cases of this, and the department head was sometimes surprised that they could only require their top managers to work 40 hours per week. This is a huge difference from the private sector.

[Normal]

By far the most irritating and undeserving tipping situation is when I pick up a pizza. I see zero need to place money in a tip/handout jar for a “to-go” order I placed on the phone and picked up myself. The “icing on the cake” is when I charge for the pizza and the receipt has a tip/gratuity line to fill in!

Tipping needs to be a thing of the past. In Europe no one tips, it seems to be more an American thing.

[Kelevision]

Have you noticed the food prices in restaurants have gone up dramatically. I'm not sure everybody knows this but last fall, 2024. Florida enacted a law mandating restaurants pay a base wage of $9.98 to their wait staff and a guarantee of $13/hour when combined with the tips.The law gave restaurants time to change their menu prices so they could pay the base wage.
So, why are we continuing to pay 20% tip when there is already a built in tip in the menu prices?
NOTE: the base wage is also going to go up to $10.98 this fall

It’s not built in. Is it a mandate that all old people start complaining about the price of things? Did you not plan correctly? You want to go out, have someone wait on you and not tip them for doing that? That’s not how life works. You get what you pay for. They have plenty of places for you to eat where you don’t have a server to tip. Go there and stop griping about tipping. The fact you think 13 dollars an hour is enough to live on makes me very curious about your age and where you came from. Jeez. 30 dollars an hour isn’t enough to live on in this time.

[Aces4]

You say that if your children aren’t salaried enough for their efforts they would change jobs and do just fine.

Doesn’t that same rationale apply to the person working in a factory which runs about 100 degrees on a summer day, lifting product, running presses?

And to answer your question, my working conditions were not that bad. But I don't think the tax benefits for overtime are limited to workers with those conditions.

Many government employees get overtime. This includes transit workers, the post office, TSA, VA, CPB, and FEMA. Most of those jobs are hard to get. And the people that I know that work in those areas usually want overtime.

Most overtime jobs are those in the manual labor and not pencil pushers. Yes, I am indicating that those in higher paying jobs have more opportunity than a factory worker for job shopping. The limit for overtime tax free is $12,500. That can mean the difference between self-supporting or living off the government (us).

[fdpaq0580]

Eat at home, problem solved.

No! The problem still exists, whether I participate or not.

[Rainger99]

I handled several cases of this, and the department head was sometimes surprised that they could only require their top managers to work 40 hours per week. This is a huge difference from the private sector.

I did not know that!!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

You can spend a lot of space working math problems but that doesn’t change the fact that this deduction, only available to some tipped workers, will exempt the first $25,000 in tips from federal income tax.

Yes it will. I'm not challenging that assertion. I'm challenging the assertion that it is - specifically - "no tax on tips." That's the topic of this thread, that's what everyone is commenting about.

It isn't "no tax on tips." It's "deduction on SOME tips." Words have meanings.

Seniors have deductions that younger people don't have. Veterans get tax breaks that non-veterans don't get. Rich people get tons more deductions than poorer people get, and some of them can deduct so much, that the tax they pay to the IRS ends up being LESS than what some poor people pay.

[Bill14564]

It isn't "no tax on tips." It's "deduction on SOME tips." Words have meanings.


Words have meanings. The words “all” or “any” would indicate a 100% deduction. Those words were not used.

Note: I stopped reading anything into campaign promises after the "Read my lips" incident.

[bopat]

Is every job supposed to have a living wage?

Including part time and starting jobs?

Or are some jobs not meant to be careers?

I remember when waiters and waitresses were kids going to school or older people supplementing their income.

[Pugchief]

I think every bill passed by congress is political.

But if you could make the decision, which group of workers should get the tax break? Explain how you reached your conclusion.

The group of workers that should get the tax break is NO ONE or EVERYONE. Special carveouts always backfire.

The tax break that should be given, if one must, is to eliminate the tax on long term capital gains after changing the definition of "long term" to at least 2 or 3 years instead of 1. Much of what is being taxed is the unrealized inflation rate applied to the asset, which is ridiculous. Of course, this will never happen, bc then certain people would be screaming that it's a tax break for "the rich".

[Bill14564]

I think every bill passed by congress is political.

But if you could make the decision, which group of workers should get the tax break? Explain how you reached your conclusion.

Congress is elected through a partisan process so sure, everything passed by congress could be defined to be political. At the same time, some things (many these days) are more political than others. This is one of those.

My decision would be no targeted deductions. An across-the-board standard deduction of whatever is deemed reasonable is sufficient.

[Stu from NYC]

Congress is elected through a partisan process so sure, everything passed by congress could be defined to be political. At the same time, some things (many these days) are more political than others. This is one of those.

My decision would be no targeted deductions. An across-the-board standard deduction of whatever is deemed reasonable is sufficient.

Agreed but special interests run the govt these days

[Aces4]

Congress is elected through a partisan process so sure, everything passed by congress could be defined to be political. At the same time, some things (many these days) are more political than others. This is one of those.

My decision would be no targeted deductions. An across-the-board standard deduction of whatever is deemed reasonable is sufficient.

And we wonder why so many people are on the public teat. Why bother working when you are working under such conditions with forced overtime and you have to pay the same taxes on your meager wages as the white collar fat cats running to the computer to check how their day trading is progressing.

I think those living in The Villages need a reality check.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I remember when waiters and waitresses were kids going to school or older people supplementing their income.

I remember when they were single mothers needing to support themselves. I remember my grandmother telling me about women who worked in restaurants during the depression. I remember learning about women on the frontier after this country was settled, serving customers in taverns.

Waiters and waitresses have come from all backgrounds, of all ages, living in a variety of circumstances, and doing so for all kinds of reasons.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Congress is elected through a partisan process so sure, everything passed by congress could be defined to be political. At the same time, some things (many these days) are more political than others. This is one of those.

My decision would be no targeted deductions. An across-the-board standard deduction of whatever is deemed reasonable is sufficient.

I think a $15,000 standard deduction for each member of the household might be great. Of course, a poor family with 6 kids would end up getting a deduction larger than their income - do they get a kickback, instead of paying taxes?

[Bill14564]

I think a $15,000 standard deduction for each member of the household might be great. Of course, a poor family with 6 kids would end up getting a deduction larger than their income - do they get a kickback, instead of paying taxes?

Change the numbers a little and that's the way it works now.

[shut the front door]

Change the numbers a little and that's the way it works now.

Yep, they already get the Earned Income Credit along with all of the government assistance. But it will never be enough for some folks.

[Stu from NYC]

I think a $15,000 standard deduction for each member of the household might be great. Of course, a poor family with 6 kids would end up getting a deduction larger than their income - do they get a kickback, instead of paying taxes?

So less and less people support the govt. Not a good idea IMHO.

[thelegges]

I think a $15,000 standard deduction for each member of the household might be great. Of course, a poor family with 6 kids would end up getting a deduction larger than their income - do they get a kickback, instead of paying taxes?

They would only receive $$ paid in refund return.
When you have a disaster claim on your taxes for amount over and above what funds were received from insurance or FEMA:girlneener: (or no insurance).
The $$ is applied to taxes owed, refund is only for taxes paid.

[Normal]

They would only receive $$ paid in refund return.
When you have a disaster claim on your taxes for amount over and above what funds were received from insurance or FEMA:girlneener: (or no insurance).
The $$ is applied to taxes owed, refund is only for taxes paid.

Just eliminate all special tax breaks for everyone. Flat tax everything. The rich guy pays 5% on his million dollar boat, the poor guy pays 5% on his 300 dollar row boat.