St.Mark: Decline In Members

[Informer]

From the St Mark Bulletin:

Parish Council Report
Meeting of Tuesday 1/11/11

Finance Report:

Our Sunday and Holy Day Offertory for the period July-
December 2010 was $468,960 compared with $491,996 for the
same period in 2009,a worrisome 4.68% decline - due in part
to a 1.7% decline in registered families.

I heard that a curse was placed on the church because a cross that was dedicated by a couple was removed from the sanctuary and the church is currently being run by a deacon bob and his wife.

[ijusluvit]

Yes, but they won't have to worry because the world is going to end on the second Tuesday after the first full moon over Miami.

[SALYBOW]

I do know that St. Vincent DePaul's enrollment is up. We now have 8 deacons, 1 pastor a resident priest, and many visiting priests. We need to have 10 masses per weekend to accomadate all the people. I hope we can build the new church soon. The music is incredible and the parish seems quite friendly. Maybe that is where the St Mark's people went.

[chuckinca]

Maybe the numerous St Vince folk can take over the empty St Mark new church?


.

[Talk Host]

The whole church is curses because somebody removed a cross? Whew! Give ME the shivers.

[Quietman]

The whole church is curses because somebody removed a cross? Whew! Give ME the shivers.
The cross was moved from the sanctuary to the chapel to be seen by more people.

[Informer]

Seen by more people ???

The chapel holds 200+

The main church where the cross was meant to be holds 1400+

Special lighting and alarms were built for it. Now anybody can walk off with it!

It was customed made in England just for the church.

The people who paid for the cross were told that the cross would be for the main sanctuary.

Changing memorials after people gave money for them for a specific use will discourage others to dedicate anything let alone be a member of that church!

[PR1234]

I would LOVE for our church to receive $468,990....what are they whining about!!!!!!:22yikes:

[Quietman]

They have a much larger cross in the church now. Everyone seems happy.

[K9-Lovers]

Informer, I am just curious . . . what gave you the idea for your "Informer" name?

[graciegirl]

Seen by more people ???

The chapel holds 200+

The main church where the cross was meant to be holds 1400+

Special lighting and alarms were built for it. Now anybody can walk off with it!

It was customed made in England just for the church.

The people who paid for the cross were told that the cross would be for the main sanctuary.

Changing memorials after people gave money for them for a specific use will discourage others to dedicate anything let alone be a member of that church!

I...um...think you are kidding right....about the curse? Catholic dogma says that it is a sin against the first commandment to allow superstition to guide you....doesn't it? Isn't that what I learned in Baltimore Catechism about a hundred years ago?


I think that moving a cross or changing a stained glass window just happens over time. My grandparents paid for a window in our parish church a long time ago. The church has been renovated....Things just change. I kinda think that someone is missing a message here. The purpose of the church building is to encourage.........................?

I have heard wonderful things about St. Vincent de Paul. I hear that St. Marks is crowded.

[Informer]

"They have a much larger cross in the church now. Everyone seems happy."


Not for those who left!

[Informer]

I think that moving a cross or changing a stained glass window just happens over time. My grandparents paid for a window in our parish church a long time ago. The church has been renovated....Things just change. I kinda think that someone is missing a message here. The purpose of the church building is to encourage.........................?

Yes they change over a very long period of time! But this change happened months after the church was even dedicated!

I even think it is morally wrong for a bunch of whinners to do such a thing!

[Informer]

Informer, I am just curious . . . what gave you the idea for your "Informer" name?

To inform those of the truth....I was there!

[Talk Host]

To inform those of the truth....I was there!

You were there for what Mr/Mrs informer? The casting of the curse?

[K9-Lovers]

Informer, have to spoken to those in charge of your church about this? Perhaps they didn't realize they would be hurting feelings of those who donated?

Did you tell them how you felt?

[ijusluvit]

Hey you guys!

Is no one concerned about the end of the world following the full moon over Miami?

[K9-Lovers]

Hey you guys!

Is no one concerned about the end of the world following the full moon over Miami?

Full Moon Over Miami sounds too much like a song, or a movie, or a comedy show -- maybe involving detectives like that tv show "Moonlighting". Anyway, everyone knows that the end times are near, but not until 2012 so we have a few more months to go . . .:p

[Informer]

You were there for what Mr/Mrs informer? The casting of the curse?


The reality is....a decline in membership ????......In the Villages ????......at the height of Snow Bird season ????

Some have left that church and joined another church....not Catholic!

Sounds very strange to me!

[Informer]

Informer, have to spoken to those in charge of your church about this? Perhaps they didn't realize they would be hurting feelings of those who donated?

Did you tell them how you felt?

Ha! They could care less!

[K9-Lovers]

Ha! They could care less!

Maybe you don't realize that you didn't answer my question.

Did you talk to them?

[Informer]

Maybe you don't realize that you didn't answer my question.

Did you talk to them?

yes I did

[graciegirl]

Informer. It sounds like a cross or crucifix was moved from the body of the church to the chapel.

Usually the interior decoration of a church is planned to the very last detail before the plans are completed. This includes pew styles, interior art work, lighting, stations of the cross, the baptismal font and the candlesticks etc. and they are all in the same style, be it contemporary, traditional, minamalist or other style

I don't know how old St. Marks is but it has been here since we had been looking for a home. Usually certain things are given an amount of money so people can contribute the whole amount or part of it in the fundraising segment of a church being built or being redecorated. Usually those items are not selected by an individual but by the architect or interior church designer with a committee guiding them.

What exactly happened? Were you the contributor? Did you love that cross or crucifix?

It is hard to understand why a cross being moved has contributed to the lack of people attending Mass.

Please explain.

Feel this hug.

And Informer, if you want to copy what anyone said, just push the quote box below and it will quote/copy and you can comment about what a person said.

[Informer]

Informer. It sounds like a cross or crucifix was moved from the body of the church to the chapel.

Usually the interior decoration of a church is planned to the very last detail before the plans are completed. This includes pew styles, interior art work, lighting, stations of the cross, the baptismal font and the candlesticks etc. and they are all in the same style, be it contemporary, traditional, minamalist or other style

I don't know how old St. Marks is but it has been here since we had been looking for a home. Usually certain things are given an amount of money so people can contribute the whole amount or part of it in the fundraising segment of a church being built or being redecorated. Usually those items are not selected by an individual but by the architect or interior church designer with a committee guiding them.

What exactly happened? Were you the contributor? Did you love that cross or crucifix?

It is hard to understand why a cross being moved has contributed to the lack of people attending Mass.

Please explain.

Feel this hug.

And Informer, if you want to copy what anyone said, just push the quote box below and it will quote/copy and you can comment about what a person said.



From what I understand a memorial program was set up so that people could memorialize an item in memory of a loved one.

It was explained to us by the pastor at that time that the Cross that was moved would be the main cross. It was larger than usual and plated in Silver.

It was even used befor the church was dedicated; people saw it and again it was announced that it would be the main cross for the church.

A couple was approached and explained to them that the cross would be the churches main cross; It cost $25,000.

The main problem that I have with this cross issue is that after the pastor who built the church was forced out, a group of people who the pastor thought would safe-guard these memorials started to change things.

And by the way the pastor was moved for political reasons and not for something he wrongly did.

Statues appeared that were not part of what was agreed to and other changes were nade too, too fast; the parish just celebrated 1 year in the new church.

The curse thing is a fictional tale. And yes people would not leave the church because of the cross issue.

People left because the way the pastor who built the church was so rudely treated and dismissed so quickly after the dedication of the new church. They were jealous of his great success.

Those close to him betrayed his friendship and are now in power. They are the ones who should have said NO to the cross issue and other changes people were suggesting. Instead they seized this transitional moment to put forth their own agenda.

People who had a conscience and a character left the church because of the power grab of the deacon there and his phoney wife.

These and other issues are why people are leaving St Mark; POWER!

[Talk Host]

From what I understand a memorial program was set up so that people could memorialize an item in memory of a loved one.

It was explained to us by the pastor at that time that the Cross that was moved would be the main cross. It was larger than usual and plated in Silver.

It was even used befor the church was dedicated; people saw it and again it was announced that it would be the main cross for the church.

A couple was approached and explained to them that the cross would be the churches main cross; It cost $25,000.

The main problem that I have with this cross issue is that after the pastor who built the church was forced out, a group of people who the pastor thought would safe-guard these memorials started to change things.

And by the way the pastor was moved for political reasons and not for something he wrongly did.

Statues appeared that were not part of what was agreed to and other changes were nade too, too fast; the parish just celebrated 1 year in the new church.

The curse thing is a fictional tale. And yes people would not leave the church because of the cross issue.

People left because the way the pastor who built the church was so rudely treated and dismissed so quickly after the dedication of the new church. They were jealous of his great success.

Those close to him betrayed his friendship and are now in power. They are the ones who should have said NO to the cross issue and other changes people were suggesting. Instead they seized this transitional moment to put forth their own agenda.

People who had a conscience and a character left the church because of the power grab of the deacon there and his phoney wife.

These and other issues are why people are leaving St Mark; POWER!

I wonder what Jesus would have said if were here to post on this forum. Do you suppose it would be similar to the above?

[K9-Lovers]

Sometimes the greatest lessons we learn here on earth, are similar (in analogy) to what Christ endured. Betrayal was one. Feeling disappointed in others because of that betrayal is one. Dealing with those who abuse power is another.

When these kinds of things happen to me or to others around me, I try to see it as an opportunity to deepen my faith. Maybe these things happen as a trial or test, and if we understand and react appropriately (WWJD?) then we will advance or be uplifted.

That's how I look at it, anyway.

[chuckinca]

Informer. It sounds like a cross or crucifix was moved from the body of the church to the chapel.

Usually the interior decoration of a church is planned to the very last detail before the plans are completed. This includes pew styles, interior art work, lighting, stations of the cross, the baptismal font and the candlesticks etc. and they are all in the same style, be it contemporary, traditional, minamalist or other style

I don't know how old St. Marks is but it has been here since we had been looking for a home. Usually certain things are given an amount of money so people can contribute the whole amount or part of it in the fundraising segment of a church being built or being redecorated. Usually those items are not selected by an individual but by the architect or interior church designer with a committee guiding them.

What exactly happened? Were you the contributor? Did you love that cross or crucifix?

It is hard to understand why a cross being moved has contributed to the lack of people attending Mass.

Please explain.

Feel this hug.

And Informer, if you want to copy what anyone said, just push the quote box below and it will quote/copy and you can comment about what a person said.



GG

They recently built a new church to handle the crowds.


.

[graciegirl]

Chuck, I didn't know that for obvious reasons, please say a couple for me.

Thank you K9lovers, your words are helpful and healing.

Thank you Informer, I can sense how betrayed you feel and how you miss your former pastor.

This forum is such a good place to tell each other how we feel. It can become better than the best sermon sometimes.

[Informer]

I wonder what Jesus would have said if were here to post on this forum. Do you suppose it would be similar to the above?

OK. I could pay the Jesus card game too!

If Jesus were a member of that Church and witness the things that were stated in this thread...He'd be one of the 1.7% registered families who have left because the hardness of their hearts!

[K9-Lovers]

Informer, if you think that is what Jesus would do, then follow His example and find a new church. Don't hold this resentment in your heart too long; it will make you sick.

Forgive.

[ldj1938]

Please send all excess contributions to "The Holy Trinity of the First Tee":wave:. The skins pot could use the money.

[Tweety Bird]

I am so happy to be home on a Sunday morning, reading the Sunday paper over a brewing pot of coffee on my quiet lanai. No getting dressed...no parking problems...no losing my money into a collection plate and no crowds. ahhhhh

[Informer]

Informer, if you think that is what Jesus would do, then follow His example and find a new church. Don't hold this resentment in your heart too long; it will make you sick.

Forgive.

Done that months ago!

[graciegirl]

Done that months ago!



I am no scholar and I am certainly not someone who should be taken as a moral example. I don't know what will happen to a church that has mean spirited people on their pivotal committees. But people leaving is one thing that does happen in these situations.

I hope you found a place that is more right for you.

And when you pray there, say one for me.

[Talk Host]

Informer! What would you like to see happen in your former church (St. Mark') What would be a satisfactory outcome? Would you come back to ST. Marks if they put the crucifix back in the main altar?

I'm also wondering why this topic is the only thing the original poster has to talk about. It seems almost like an unhealthy obsession. In each of his/her posts there seems to be the same level of bitterness and anger. There is no participation in any of the hundreds of other topics here.

We use to belong to a church in Belleview, but found out that the pastor was using the collection plate as his own personal ATM. When the board of directors found out about it, he fired them all. Then the members found out about it, he threw us out of the church (about 120). The guy is no longer a minister. He's now a youth counselor up in the Carolinas. How scary is that?

But, life goes on and we have put this whole thing behind us. I laugh to think that we actually liked this guy and didn't see what he was doing.

I think that if a person has already left the parish and has begun a new association elsewhere, then these other issues are history.


.

[Informer]

Unhealthy obsession ? No. I think one has to be a good listener sometimes and realize the pain that was experienced by me and others and try to sympathize with the person

First, our parish was (and still is) a young parish; going on it's sixth year now.

The energy in the community was phenomenal; we had a dynamic pastor who by the way was 1) a first time pastor 2) first time building a new $ 8 million dollar church.

The feeling one received when entering a sunday liturgy there was as if you never left home! That has changed.

Realize this setting which is what actually happened: We were planning the dedication of our new church which should be a joyous occation for all involved. Instead we were told that our pastor was being transferred days after the dedication before the dedication. Despite our repeated attempts to at least delay the transfer until the end of the year, we were given some lame excuse which no one accepted. Why in God's name would the superiors of that pastor distroy a whole community like that!

It was cold, callous and un-Christian.

There was no wrong doing at all from the pastor; financial, spiritual or moral to justify THE WAY THIS TOOK PLACE. We all know clergy are transferred; and would have accepted it with sorrow but to run this pastor out of town as if he were a criminal is in my estimation morally wrong;many saw it that way and have left the church.

What would I like to see happen probably will not happen; I for one would like to thank that young pastor for what he did; for giving us old people for the time he was here hope and excitment in our faith. That despite those whom he trusted and betrayed him there are many, many more who feel he is still the pastor of there hearts and souls!

Father Simon, thank you were ever you are!

[jackz]

Informer! What would you like to see happen in your former church (St. Mark') What would be a satisfactory outcome? Would you come back to ST. Marks if they put the crucifix back in the main altar?

I'm also wondering why this topic is the only thing the original poster has to talk about. It seems almost like an unhealthy obsession. In each of his/her posts there seems to be the same level of bitterness and anger. There is no participation in any of the hundreds of other topics here.

We use to belong to a church in Belleview, but found out that the pastor was using the collection plate as his own personal ATM. When the board of directors found out about it, he fired them all. Then the members found out about it, he threw us out of the church (about 120). The guy is no longer a minister. He's now a youth counselor up in the Carolinas. How scary is that?

But, life goes on and we have put this whole thing behind us. I laugh to think that we actually liked this guy and didn't see what he was doing.

I think that if a person has already left the parish and has begun a new association elsewhere, then these other issues are history.


.

I have to agree with the talk host, this does appear to be bordering on an unhealthy obsession for informer. It appears the subject has been "beaten to death", time to move on.

[bargee]

"Amen"

[Informer]

Just saying how it was. If the out come were more postive and I stated that here....would people say...this is obsessive?

Just giving you my experience! I've moved on and have continued practicing my faith.

Would you tell someone who is raped and a year shares that bad experience with you as obsessive?

Not being there I guess it's hard for you all to relate to.

[Informer]

Amen to a church declining in members ???

Giving you one reason why!

[jackz]

Just saying how it was. If the out come were more postive and I stated that here....would people say...this is obsessive?

Just giving you my experience! I've moved on and have continued practicing my faith.

Would you tell someone who is raped and a year shares that bad experience with you as obsessive?

Not being there I guess it's hard for you all to relate to.

I think the moving of a cross and transfer of a priest being compared to someone being raped might be a good definition of obsessive.

[Informer]

Definition

An obsession is an unwelcome, uncontrollable, and persistent idea, thought, image, or emotion that a person cannot help thinking even though it creates significant distress or anxiety.

Talking about one's experiences and having an unwelcomed, uncontrollable idea, thought, etc. does not define me or this thread.

If I'm the only one talking about it seems odd....maybe....but not obsessive!

The comparison is not in the action...it's in the lack of reaction from people who are indifferent to other peoples situations....they live in an artificial community!

[K9-Lovers]

Informer, you stated that you:

1)spoke to those in power about your distress over this situation, to no avail,
2)made a move to another church where you feel more comfortable,
3)have forgiven those who you felt betrayed the previous pastor, and those who donated

but still feel the need to inform the rest of the world, and dwell on this unfortunate situation, then ... yes ... you are obsessing.

Make yourself put this out of your mind. Ask God to help you. Find new activities or things to think about instead of this issue.

You need to move past this situation.

[Informer]

I'm sorry but I very much disagree with you.

Don't you ever discuss with your friends situations...things that HAVE happened to you (good or bad)...even from your past ????

If the answer is yes...so why do you call it obsessive?
If the answer is no...how sad!

I've stated the good things that happened while I was at St Mark and the bad! These are my REAL experiences! No way will I forget them!

What I informed the rest of the world was the fact that membership is in decline at St Mark. This came from their own bulletin via their web site. So it's not something very one else does not know about.

I think there are people in this forum who can not deal with reality. To have an adult conversation about this topic is not possible. If the topic was golf carts would that be obsessive; if the topic was politics would that be obsessive.

How sad to live in such a defined little world and not understand anothers situation.

Since this conversation is going nowhere fast, this will be my parting reply.

I will continue this conversation in another venue and discuss my experience here with a more open minded group of people.

Thanks for the imput or the lack thereof!

Informer signing off.

[K9-Lovers]

I'm glad we had the chance to get to know you a little bit. Maybe you'll change your mind and decide to join in our discussions about a variety of other topics. I hope so.

Take care and God bless.

Mrs. K9

[VillageGourmet25]

I'm sorry but I very much disagree with you.

Don't you ever discuss with your friends situations...things that HAVE happened to you (good or bad)...even from your past ????

If the answer is yes...so why do you call it obsessive?
If the answer is no...how sad!

I've stated the good things that happened while I was at St Mark and the bad! These are my REAL experiences! No way will I forget them!

What I informed the rest of the world was the fact that membership is in decline at St Mark. This came from their own bulletin via their web site. So it's not something very one else does not know about.

I think there are people in this forum who can not deal with reality. To have an adult conversation about this topic is not possible. If the topic was golf carts would that be obsessive; if the topic was politics would that be obsessive.

How sad to live in such a defined little world and not understand anothers situation.

Since this conversation is going nowhere fast, this will be my parting reply.

I will continue this conversation in another venue and discuss my experience here with a more open minded group of people.

Thanks for the imput or the lack thereof!

Informer signing off.
Informer---People are ignorant!! You were just speaking cold hard truths!! I guess some people "Can't Handle the Truth!!"

[duffysmom]

Gourmet, I find digging up this old drivel less than palatable.:icon_bored:

[skyguy79]

I guess some people "Can't Handle the Truth!!"Reminds me of the famous words of Col. Nathan R. Jessup (Jack Nicholson) in A Few Good Men!

[Bogie Shooter]

Gourmet, I find digging up this old drivel less than palatable.:icon_bored:

I agree!

[graciegirl]

Gourmet, I find digging up this old drivel less than palatable.:icon_bored:

Good point and excellent pun Duffy's Mom and Welcome to the forum, Gourmet. What's your beef?

And I should not have done the same thing. I just dug up another old thread.

I am sorry.:mad:

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