Last Nights TEA PARTY DEBATE

[Guest]

I found this part of the debate interesting.....how does a seeming Pro_Life crowd get to be Pro_Death?

http://cltampa.com/dailyloaf/archives/2011/09/12/tea-party-crowd-cheers-letting-uninsured-die-at-tampa-gop-debate

Talk about a death panel!!!!

[Guest]

Cologal is right again!

Under the comments of the link she provided was this following comment:

"Remember: Tea Partiers are almost universally are pro-life. Then you enter the world and at 30 you lack health insurance, have some kind of accident and end up needing expensive life-saving care. The Tea Party response? "Go .... yourself. No one told you to be born in the first place!" Of course, I would expect nothing less from a group of people who protest "government run health care" while riding Medicare-supplied scooters."


As you can see, Americans are seeing that the Tea Party is NOT what America wants or needs.

[Guest]

The demonization of the Tea Party movement will fail. Pointing to something that a candidate says that has nothing to do with Tea Party objectives is very dishonest. The people will see that.

[Guest]

The demonization of the Tea Party movement will fail. Pointing to something that a candidate says that has nothing to do with Tea Party objectives is very dishonest. The people will see that.

Richie.... I am clearly confused by your response.....Did the debate crowd last night indicate that they supported allowing the man in the coma without health insurance to die.

Its a yes or no question. Thats what I heard.

[Guest]

Take away some of the inflammatory rhetoric and you COULD be left with the desire to have the Tea Party supporters simply THINK THROUGH the consequences of acting on their stated desires.

It's just a new version of the old "cut the OTHER guy's pork - mine's necessary" thinking.

The Tea Part wants to cut small potatoes while ignoring many of the HUGE ticket items - and by the same token, Obama contributes to the Social Security problem by continuing the ill-conceived payroll tax cut that does nothing but move up the time that Social Security runs out of T-Bills to cash in! (remember, we still got a HUGE increase in jobs when Reagan compromised with Tip O'Neill and hiked the FICA tax to temporarily 'save' Social Security so the "it'll kill jobs" argument rings hollow)

[Guest]

Richie.... I am clearly confused by your response.....Did the debate crowd last night indicate that they supported allowing the man in the coma without health insurance to die.

Its a yes or no question. Thats what I heard.

The Tea Party objectives have nothing to do with your query. Just because people attracted to the Tea Party's objective comprise a majority who are pro-life (count me in), it is not part of the "Tea Party Platform" or it's political objectives. It's a separate issue that has been with us for many, many years.

http://theteaparty.net/index.asp

[Guest]

Of course that is what you heard, Cologal. That is what was said. The Tea Party crowd did support having the 30 year old in a coma die rather than receive treatment on someone else's dime. That is also exactly what Ron Paul said.

Sounds kind of cold, doesn't it?

[Guest]

Of course that is what you heard, Cologal. That is what was said. The Tea Party crowd did support having the 30 year old in a coma die rather than receive treatment on someone else's dime. That is also exactly what Ron Paul said.

Sounds kind of cold, doesn't it?

A "few members" (of the audience) yelled "yeah", at the asked question, not the candidate's response, about a man who refuses to buy health care and now requires extraordinary care, being left to his own deivices, and that comprises the whole of the Tea Party?

The audience only applauded when Ron Paul spoke for people taking personal responsibility for their lives.

Really grasping for straws here, you guys.

The demonization express is chugging away...............

[Guest]

I found this part of the debate interesting.....how does a seeming Pro_Life crowd get to be Pro_Death?

http://cltampa.com/dailyloaf/archives/2011/09/12/tea-party-crowd-cheers-letting-uninsured-die-at-tampa-gop-debate

Talk about a death panel!!!!

methinks you mis-characterize this exercise. This is a choice of pro-life vis a vis pro-death but rather a pro-life pro-choice scenario and a proper one.

It is perfectly fine with me if a 30 something decides to end his/her life by either ignoring insurance coverage or living a risky life, i.e. speeding, drinking illegal drugs, promiscuous sexual propensities.

It is quite another to have another person make a decision for a human being before that human being has an opportunity to speak for him or herself.

The comparison shown during the debate were mis-leading and I am surprised not one of the candidates jumped on this

[Guest]

Like most special interest groups, the few prejudiced anti Tea Party folk, seek out only the negatives.

How about the rest of what the Tea Party or anybody proposes that is positive? That is intended to be for the betterment of our Country?

I know. Why would anybody want to promote the majority good stuff...it does not work for or against a partisan need to regurgitate on any subject they choose to underscore.

Of course one can be against abortion but for capital punishment of the guilty.

The two issues are so not related it is quite amusing to watch some create a bridge between the two.

It can only be meaningful on a case by case, specific example. Lumping into a broad category to make a general statement doesn't work for too many controversial issues.

Trying to make a right or wrong assignation via a political position is so.....POLITICAL!!! Hence has nothing to do with right or wrong. Just promoting the party line.

btk

[Guest]

Here is my take on the tea party and the debate. It seems that the tea party is anti-choice but its ok to let a grown adult die. They have a resentment against what they see as freeloaders,illegals and baby-killers. The audience last night was a disgrace. Some of you talk exceptionalism, I saw none last night. It was a digusting display of humanity. They cheer at Perrys 234 executions and now applaud to the uninsured dying as punishment. Then they boo Ron Paul for his explaination of the 911 attack. These are my fellow Americans...ignorant,bloodthirsty,clueless mob.And CNN gives them authenticity bu putting them on? I do believe the tea party is in the early stages of a naxi-like party.
Mitt Romney"a savings account for healthcare" really? or...the problem with healthcare is that sick people dont know how much it costs.....are you kidding me?

[Guest]

Anger management. I wonder how much it costs and do insurance companies cover it?:ohdear:

[Guest]

Here is my take on the tea party and the debate. It seems that the tea party is anti-choice but its ok to let a grown adult die. They have a resentment against what they see as freeloaders,illegals and baby-killers. The audience last night was a disgrace. Some of you talk exceptionalism, I saw none last night. It was a digusting display of humanity. They cheer at Perrys 234 executions and now applaud to the uninsured dying as punishment. Then they boo Ron Paul for his explaination of the 911 attack. These are my fellow Americans...ignorant,bloodthirsty,clueless mob.And CNN gives them authenticity bu putting them on? I do believe the tea party is in the early stages of a naxi-like party.
Mitt Romney"a savings account for healthcare" really? or...the problem with healthcare is that sick people dont know how much it costs.....are you kidding me?

You post is ludicrous in it's entirety. There's not one grain of rational observational thought in any of it. It's all nonsense of the likes I rarely see.

This gotta be obvious flaming.........really.

[Guest]

Here is my take on the tea party and the debate. It seems that the tea party is anti-choice but its ok to let a grown adult die. They have a resentment against what they see as freeloaders,illegals and baby-killers. The audience last night was a disgrace. Some of you talk exceptionalism, I saw none last night. It was a digusting display of humanity. They cheer at Perrys 234 executions and now applaud to the uninsured dying as punishment. Then they boo Ron Paul for his explaination of the 911 attack. These are my fellow Americans...ignorant,bloodthirsty,clueless mob.And CNN gives them authenticity bu putting them on? I do believe the tea party is in the early stages of a naxi-like party.
Mitt Romney"a savings account for healthcare" really? or...the problem with healthcare is that sick people dont know how much it costs.....are you kidding me?

stop stop stop. You caught me when you said that it seems that the tea party is anti-choice. You may accuse me of taking this out of context but what the hell. If the truth be known the Democratic party and the liberal progressives there in are willing to give you the choice as to whether you want to have a child or not. (A.k.a. abortion)

that's the only choice that they want to give you. They want to control every aspect of your life from cradle-to-grave. They are willing to pay for it. With other people's money. But for you to have the audacity to say that the tea party is anti-choice is just totally ludicrous. Is abortion a choice in the first place? Sure it is. The tea party people just don't like that choice. There is really nothing they can do about it. It is established law.

I think that it is time that we take abortion off the table. It is nothing but a political hack job. Stupid Republicans will fight against. Stupid liberals will fight for it. Notice that I classify them both as stupid. This is something that has to be taken up with your with your God. Get it off the table.

Just some thoughts.

[Guest]

I am not flaming anyone. I wrote my observations on last nights debate being as honest as I can. I understand some will disagree with me and attempt to smear my post. It does not matter,those were my thoughts and feelings,what can I say. I will repeat that I found the audience despicable in their behaviors. Some of you can disparage my remarks but I honestly believe the tea party is bad for America.

[Guest]

I am not flaming anyone. I wrote my observations on last nights debate being as honest as I can. I understand some will disagree with me and attempt to smear my post. It does not matter,those were my thoughts and feelings,what can I say. I will repeat that I found the audience despicable in their behaviors. Some of you can disparage my remarks but I honestly believe the tea party is bad for America.

OK, I'll leave it at that then, because I can't possibly get into all your thoughts as I can't wrap my head around your observations. We see what we want to see, I guess and that's that.

[Guest]

I am not flaming anyone. I wrote my observations on last nights debate being as honest as I can. I understand some will disagree with me and attempt to smear my post. It does not matter,those were my thoughts and feelings,what can I say. I will repeat that I found the audience despicable in their behaviors. Some of you can disparage my remarks but I honestly believe the tea party is bad for America.

I honestly do not understand why you think that ordinary people, who are tired of DC. professional politicians, are bad for America. I do not understand why people feel that getting our spending priorities in order and reducing our debt is wrong. Do you think it is alright to spend our grandchildren's future?

Why do you portray the Tea Party as the boogie man? I think liberal democrats are afraid that America will wake up and vote all these bums out of office, and I mean R's and D's.

[Guest]

A "few members" (of the audience) yelled "yeah", at the asked question, not the candidate's response, about a man who refuses to buy health care and now requires extraordinary care, being left to his own deivices, and that comprises the whole of the Tea Party?

The audience only applauded when Ron Paul spoke for people taking personal responsibility for their lives.

Really grasping for straws here, you guys.

The demonization express is chugging away...............

Richie....

It is was it is....yes this was billed as a Tea Party debate and members of the Tea Party did indicate that the man should be left to die. Even Rick Perry was shocked.

There was and still is no demonetization in the original post nor this one. And I am frankly surprised you would make such a statement.

[Guest]

Richie....

It is was it is....yes this was billed as a Tea Party debate and members of the Tea Party did indicate that the man should be left to die. Even Rick Perry was shocked.

There was and still is no demonetization in the original post nor this one. And I am frankly surprised you would make such a statement.

You're trying to paint an entire organization with the shouts of a few. That's pretty much demonizing the entire organization, as I said. I'm sorry

I could say that the words of the leftist radicals like Bill Ayers and Shirley Chisholm represent the true nature of the Democrats. Now you would reject that, and you would be right. But they are or were in your political party. So, by your logic, I can comfortably say that.

[Guest]

methinks you mis-characterize this exercise. This is a choice of pro-life vis a vis pro-death but rather a pro-life pro-choice scenario and a proper one.

It is perfectly fine with me if a 30 something decides to end his/her life by either ignoring insurance coverage or living a risky life, i.e. speeding, drinking illegal drugs, promiscuous sexual propensities.

It is quite another to have another person make a decision for a human being before that human being has an opportunity to speak for him or herself.

The comparison shown during the debate were mis-leading and I am surprised not one of the candidates jumped on this

Perhaps I could have drawn the comparison in a better way.

So I will try... The premise here was the crowd didn't want to pay for this guy's hospital bill because he didn't have insurance... That is pretty much in line with the Republican and Tea Party's stance on birth control and abortion. "We shouldn't have to pay for that." Ok but the ramifications of that could be that a child is born. But then there is the assault on entitlement's, of course not all entitlements, but specifically welfare and Medicaid. "We don't want to pay for welfare for these kids." Had we paid for the birth control or at least had access to low cost birth control the entitlement bill might be lower. The Republicans have an all out assault on Planned Parenthood Clinics including those who do not provide abortions.

I one specific discussion with a Tea Party supporter revolved around entitlements like Pel grants. I said to I had helped my nephews with the college and he said "Well I shouldn't have to pay for that." But I asked him did his son receive any public funds helping pay his current college fees....to which he replied no. Unfortunately, for him, he was trapped in a lie..his son did get Pel grants and I knew it. So I asked him why was it ok for me to have to pay for his son and it was not ok for him to have to pay for my nephew? His answer was to walk away. So its the same old story....NOT FOR ME!

Returning to the point at hand.....the 30 year old without insurance. The Tea Party is pretty upset about the Federal Mandate that requires everyone to have insurance....to the point of filing lawsuits. It would appear that you all want people to have a choice but suffer death if you make the wrong one.

I found this statement odd.... It is quite another to have another person make a decision for a human being before that human being has an opportunity to speak for him or herself. You could have a living will which calls out what you want at the end of life but if you didn't have one then, using your logic, we could pull the plug. Right?

[Guest]

You're trying to paint an entire organization with the shouts of a few. That's pretty much demonizing the entire organization, as I said. I'm sorry

I could say that the words of the leftist radicals like Bill Ayers and Shirley Chisholm represent the true nature of the Democrats. Now you would reject that, and you would be right. But they are or were in your political party. So, by your logic, I can comfortably say that.

Bill Ayers.....to coin one of your favorite pharses REJECTED.

And as hard as it is for me to say Rick Perry is on my side.

[Guest]

Like most special interest groups, the few prejudiced anti Tea Party folk, seek out only the negatives.

How about the rest of what the Tea Party or anybody proposes that is positive? That is intended to be for the betterment of our Country?

I know. Why would anybody want to promote the majority good stuff...it does not work for or against a partisan need to regurgitate on any subject they choose to underscore.

Of course one can be against abortion but for capital punishment of the guilty.

The two issues are so not related it is quite amusing to watch some create a bridge between the two.

It can only be meaningful on a case by case, specific example. Lumping into a broad category to make a general statement doesn't work for too many controversial issues.

Trying to make a right or wrong assignation via a political position is so.....POLITICAL!!! Hence has nothing to do with right or wrong. Just promoting the party line.

btk

I saw something that was quite upsetting happen at the TEA PARTY debate....

So that makes me.....

Like most special interest groups, the few prejudiced anti Tea Party folk, seek out only the negatives

Seriously.....

[Guest]

A "few members" (of the audience) yelled "yeah", at the asked question, not the candidate's response, about a man who refuses to buy health care and now requires extraordinary care, being left to his own deivices, and that comprises the whole of the Tea Party?

The audience only applauded when Ron Paul spoke for people taking personal responsibility for their lives.

Really grasping for straws here, you guys.

The demonization express is chugging away...............

I did not hear anyone booing when the people were yelling YES and YEAH to the let him die statement. Ususally when someone says something THAT stupid, the rest of the audience boos. Maybe they agreed buy had the sense to not yell YES!!

[Guest]

cologal, I was merely pointing out that statistically, most commentary is what people do not like. As the saying(s) used to go one could do a sterling job 363 days of the year, yet the boss will comment on the one day when things did not go right.

As a challenge....because I really don't know....but would be willing to bet...if one could research with the objective of summarizing what it is that each party...D, R, tea party, etc ....stand for or do that which is good for the USA...my bet is there WILL undoubtedly be much in common.

Politics being what it is, when it comes to ANY organization except their own, they will ALWAYS talk about the negative....ALWAYS....other wise it would not be political....eh?

btk

[Guest]

would it make a difference to the tea party if the 30 year old had just lost his job and with it his health insurance and had 2 young children? Or is it assumed that just because the guy had no insurance he is a bum,a nobody,a druggie?

[Guest]

Bill Ayers.....to coin one of your favorite pharses REJECTED.

And as hard as it is for me to say Rick Perry is on my side.

If you don't think Bill Ayers votes a straight Democrat ticket, you're dreaming. I have every right, if I'm to argue like you do, to count him as representative of the Democrat Party.

[Guest]

I did not hear anyone booing when the people were yelling YES and YEAH to the let him die statement. Ususally when someone says something THAT stupid, the rest of the audience boos. Maybe they agreed buy had the sense to not yell YES!!

Most people are respectable enough in a debate not to yell anything. I know I wouldn't. I want to hear what's being said by the candidates, not the yahoo sitting near me.

[Guest]

Most people are respectable enough in a debate not to yell anything. I know I wouldn't. I want to hear what's being said by the candidates, not the yahoo sitting near me.

I guess TP folks (hey- I just realized that Tea Party is TP...lol. Juvenile, I grant you, but amusing) are not as vocal as other folks. Every political thing I ever attended had yeahs and boos...

[Guest]

Here's the real problem.

The people in that audience were hand-picked by the Tea Party. If you were a Democrat, you couldn't get in. Nothing inherently wrong with that because they were the ones organizing the debate.

But when it's your name on the marquee, you have to be prepared for what happens under that marquee and a couple of people inthat crowd gave the Tea Party a VERY bad name - don't know how long it'll stick but you can be damn sure there are political strategists who have that footage on the video equivalent of 'speed dial' to call up whenever they want.

Not too many people seemed to notice that Ron Paul said "No..." and was trying to continue when those few shouts of "Yes!" went up. (Jon Stewart, it might suprise you to know, DID point that out)

Just as the Republicans were risking being demonized as hating children with the infamous "trying to classify ketchup as a vegetable" debacle back in the early 1980s, the Tea Party risks having their credibility tarnished if not wiped out if they don't repudiate these kinds of things.

I'm kinda surprised Michelle Bachmann hasn't been tarred and feathered over her opposition to the HPV vaccination when she said she wanted to (paraphrasing) "leave that choice to parents" - with the logical follow-up being "Do you believe it's proper parenting to leave your children at higher risk of cervical cancer when a simple one-time shot will eliminate the one of the risk factors" or more inflammatory like "Why do you support exposing our children tohigher cancer risks?"

Policing your own. It's VERY important when it comes to credibility.

[Guest]

It's not going to matter anyway DJ. It's very inconsequential. Bringing up the reactions of a few people in an audience is not going to be very dramatic a year from now. It'll be painfully obscure and old news. It's just amusing for us political geeks to banter over now while it's too early for any real fireworks.

[Guest]

Maybe not that one incident - but if it keeps happening at rallies, debates, town halls, etc.. You start showing a trend that shows no sign of abating. And in cases like these, perception is, unfortunately, truth.

[Guest]

Maybe the Republicans should start compiling all the videos of leftist radicals disrupting Republican's speeches and appearances, many of them pretty violent. A case can be made that those actions are pretty representative of the makeup of the Democrat Party.

[Guest]

When democrats have their rallies, it gets ugly and mean and hateful. They leave trash all over the grounds for someone else to police.
The Tea Party rallies are generally peaceful and people are friendly and they usually pick up their own trash.

[Guest]

It's not going to matter anyway DJ. It's very inconsequential. Bringing up the reactions of a few people in an audience is not going to be very dramatic a year from now. It'll be painfully obscure and old news. It's just amusing for us political geeks to banter over now while it's too early for any real fireworks.

Richie-never under estimate the political ignorance of the general public. Most can not name one of their senators or 2 supreme court justices. They will remember things they have an emotional reaction to WAY more then any political rhetoric.

[Guest]

Maybe the Republicans should start compiling all the videos of leftist radicals disrupting Republican's speeches and appearances, many of them pretty violent. A case can be made that those actions are pretty representative of the makeup of the Democrat Party.

I think they already have them in their vault , ready to be shown on various television shows during the campaign. They have all of Obama's blunders and his violent hateful rhetoric ready and waiting and will show them in all 57 states.(50 states for the informed out there);)

[Guest]

I have to agree with Richie in that the left-leaning crowd can be a lot more impolite. ...at least that's the way it was in the past in local meetings where I live. Now? My *personal* observation is that hyperpartisanship, fanned by the news media, has encouraged sch behavior on both sides.

[Guest]

I say what were the majority doing? Why does the minority (not race....this time) always get the spot light?

btk

[Guest]

The left leaning is more impolite than the right? Give me a break!

What about the Republican Congressman who yelled out to the President and was heard on national television with "YOU LIE".

That is one typical example.

Now, to the meat of it. Do you honestly think that a family scraping by and cannot afford healthcare insurance is going to look at cheering people who want an uninsured person to die, will vote Republican? The answer is NO.

All of these things are helping to insure President Obama will remain in office for another term. Keep it up and help the President win again.

[Guest]

"cheering people who want an uninsured person to die"

Really??!!??!!

btk

[Guest]

If you don't think Bill Ayers votes a straight Democrat ticket, you're dreaming. I have every right, if I'm to argue like you do, to count him as representative of the Democrat Party.

Then I take it you have been in the voting booth with him. I don't even vote a straight Democratic ticket!

[Guest]

Contrary to the popular liberal belief, Americans want a hand up, not a hand out. They want jobs to support their families and be proud of themselves again. Democrats want to buy people and make them dependent and therefore secure their vote.

Make America strong again by voting Obama out of office. Obama does not care for people, only power and his ideals.

[Guest]

Then I take it you have been in the voting booth with him. I don't even vote a straight Democratic ticket!

Bill Ayers is all liberal and all radical all of the time, as well as being a mover of Barack Obama's rise to prominence in Illinois. He's all yours and you can't shake him. ("yours" to mean Democrat)

[Guest]

And he's gonna whip every one of the candidates the tea party/republicans have out there right now...Hope you guys got a dark horse in hiding somewhere, and of course I don't mean Sarah or Jendell (sp,too lazy to look it up),my google button is broken...

[Guest]

It is strongly rumored that Bill Ayers wrote one of Obama's books. Obama could not write it because he didn't have access to teleprompters in those days.

[Guest]

Has anyone else noticed that RichieLion is now a Sage?

Congratulations - that means you now can give unsolicited political advice and guidance for the rest of your life!

[Guest]

Has anyone else noticed that RichieLion is now a Sage?

Congratulations - that means you now can give unsolicited political advice and guidance for the rest of your life!

Pretty impressive, huh?; I knew you'd be impressed. I might even agree to let you buy the next round.