Obama's Watergate

[Guest]

Why a gunrunning scandal codenamed “Fast and Furious,” a program run secretly by the U.S. government that sent thousands of firearms over an international border and directly into the hands of criminals, hasn’t been pursued by an army of reporters all trying to be the next Bob Woodward or Carl Bernstein is a story in itself.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2011/09/28/fast-and-furious-just-might-be-president-obamas-watergate/


The liberal press was hoping this scandal would go away. If Bush was President this would be front page head lines every day.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IC2C2lIwNSA

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It's a wonderment to me that more political pressure has been forthcoming to get to the bottom of this incredible and stupid scheme conducted by the Obama Administration which resulted in thousands of guns being sent to Mexico's drug cartels.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) allowed American Firearms dealers to sell over 2000 guns to Mexican gangs with no plans to interdict or recover the guns. ATF's own agents questioned these plans and one of the gun dealers sent an email to ATF that this was putting border agents lives at risk; 6 months before the murder of U.S. border control agent, Brian Terry. Also, Mexico's Attorney General reports more than 200 murders in Mexico have been linked to this operation.

This story is out now because of whistle-blowers resulting in a congressional inquiry. Nobody knows what law enforcement goals were here or what "Fast and Furious" was supposed to achieve.

In a Sept. 9th letter to White House national security adviser Tom Donilon, Representative Darrell Issa, the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform chairman, and Senator Charles Grassley of Iowa revealed that the ATF special agent in charge of the operation was briefing the administration on the details as early as the summer of 2010.

In spite of this the Obama Justice Department tried to stop the acting head of the ATF, Kenneth Melson, from cooperating with congressional investigators. He ultimately testified before the Oversight Committee in July, arriving with his own legal representation. Then, in August, the Justice Department “reassigned” him to the Office of Legal Policy.

Then instead of releasing the audiotapes of the witnesses conversations directly to the congressional inquiry, the Obama Justice Dept. released the tapes to the Arizona U.S. Attorneys Office., raising the possibility of collusion between witnesses and obstruction of the investigation.

We all deserve to know how "Fast and Furious happened", and who will be held ultimately accountable. We know by experience that no scheme of this magnitude could have happened without, at least, the acquiescence of the President.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/lawyers-guns-and-money_594154.html

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It is indeed a scandal of major proportions that needs to be addressed. This is the sort of sleaze that should finally remove this empty suit from the White House.

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You notice the libs have nuttin' to say about this. Wonder why?

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Eric Holder bragged publicly about implementing Operation Gunrunner and the infamous "Fast and Furious". Now he has amnesia about it.

http://biggovernment.com/awrhawkins/2011/07/08/eric-holder-feigns-ignorance-of-operation-fast-and-furious-now-but-he-bragged-of-overseeing-its-implementation-in-2009/

"For those who might not know, Operation “Gunrunner” was the plan to sell guns to “straw purchasers” with suspected ties to the Mexican cartel. Apparently, ATF was then banking on those purchasers to walk the guns across the border into Mexico. Operation “Fast and Furious” was the plan to follow those guns until they were in cartel hands and then make apprehensions. (For the record, I concur with those who believe this was all an attempt to flood the border with weapons in order to create a degree of chaos sufficient to convince us of the supposed-need for more gun control in America.)"

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Nobody knows what law enforcement goals were here or what "Fast and Furious" was supposed to achieve.

RichieLion, even a blind squirral, who occasionally finds a nut, could see what the goal was in this operation. More gun control, errrr, call that People Control. He who as the guns, control the people, he who as the gold, makes the rules.

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Where are all the liberal posts on this thread? :popcorn:

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Remember Iran contra?

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Remember Iran contra?

Oh brother, that is the best of the progressive left? Did Bush do it?

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This is where Obama will most likely fail. He likes to try and get a consensus, get people in a room, etc.

This is a situation that calls for immediate action. It calls for Obama to make the people responsible "fall on their sword" - as in a memo that says "I will accept your resignation at your earliest convenience".

This, in my *opinion*, is one effect of having political inexperience in the White House does (as Obama wasn't in the Senate for that long). He's not decisive enough to deal with this situation while it's still exploding.

The longer it festers, the more people will be brought down by it.

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RichieLion, even a blind squirral, who occasionally finds a nut, could see what the goal was in this operation. More gun control, errrr, call that People Control. He who as the guns, control the people, he who as the gold, makes the rules.

Wow. I am the blind squirrel. I would never have connected those dots, BUT if you are correct, then each and everyone that has a finger print on this should not pass go and should go immediately to jail including Obama if he even so much as gave a thumbs up on this. I hold out some hope that you are wrong, but I can certainly see the possible connection. If this becomes fact, it would not be a bad decision, but rather a High Level Crime.

I await the opinion and research from those on there with bi-partisan abilities.

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Demand "Fast and Furious" Investigation-Call for Holder to step down or be fired.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/10-arizona-sheriffs-demand-investigation-and-possible-prosecution-against-eric-holder-video/

[Guest]

... BUT if you are correct, then each and everyone that has a finger print on this should not pass go and should go immediately to jail including Obama if he even so much as gave a thumbs up on this. I hold out some hope that you are wrong, but I can certainly see the possible connection. If this becomes fact, it would not be a bad decision, but rather a High Level Crime.I await the opinion and research from those on there with bi-partisan abilities.


:agree:

[Guest]

Here is a link to a website http://www.jpfo.org

Go there and watch these three FREE movies, then download them and pass them around to your gun hating friends.

"No Guns For Negros" & "No Guns For Jews," then if you have time watch the one about the 2d Amendment. The first two will teach you all about "gun control," and why those types of laws are passed.

Then you will know why the 2d Amendment is so important. There is no need for gun control of law abiding citizens. We are not breaking the law. Gun control is actually people control. When all firearms are banned from ownership; only two classes of people will have guns. Criminals and those wanting to control the total population, the government.

In the past and up to the present, there has been no gun laws passed that effected criminal ownership of firearms. They are called criminals because they do not obey the law. Really simple, right.

Obama and Holder along with a few liberal senators, under the radar, wanted those firearms to get into the hands of the drug cartel so that this administration could point to the weak control of the purchase of firearms by citizens of this country (United States) was endangering the citizens of another country (Mexico). So to fix that problem, first all firearms would have to be registered. Then Obama and crew would make the ownership of firearms illegal in this country (United States) then they could not be shipped or transported illegally to another country (Mexico), except by the government and the government would have a data base of everyone who owned a firearm. Then if you don't turn them in within 30 days, they come to your house, search it and if they find one, you go to jail, if they can't and you can't tell them what happened to that firearm, you go to jail. Win/win for the government in any case. Then the Senate would ratify the UN treaty on the ownership of small arms, which is in direct conflict to our Constitution, further banning the ownership of firearms.

Once the 2d Amendment is gutted from the Constitution, the rest of the Constitution just becomes an old has been piece of paper that means nothing. There will be nothing that the government has to fear from the people.

I hope that I don't live long enough to see this happen and this is why it is important to get to the bottom of this mess.

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http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/07/mark-steyn-why-dont-cnn-npr-ny-times-care-about-dead-mexicans/

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It just gets worse:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-atf-guns-20111009,0,6431788.story?track=rss

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Thanks Villagegolfer for the links!

http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/07/mark-steyn-why-dont-cnn-npr-ny-times-care-about-dead-mexicans/

http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/07/ma...dead-mexicans/

Wondering how this will affect the Potus' hispanic vote...?

[Guest]

This is from Forbes magazine right next to a video entitled "Is Obama Anti-Business". It also mentions comment from FOX News. Here is a comment that does not fall under the articles copyright protection:

The problem with your assessment is that Operation Fast & Furious had nothing to do with Mr. Obama or his administration. It began, as far as I can tell anyway, in the Fall of 2009, just months after Mr. Obama took office. It appears to have been an operation taken entirely at the initiative of local ATF officials and not Mr. Obama or the White House. Mr. Obama did not profit from this operation nor did it target political opponents. While it may well indeed have been a badly bungled sting operation, it is hardly a political scandal.

[Guest]

Very interesting web site. I was hoping that there were those who didn't fully believe that you've got to bend so you don't break. That only works some of the time.

My Liberal bias doesn't extend to redefining the second amendment to insure that those in power keep that power. The second amendment was put in place partly because of the British confiscation of arms near Boston in the seventeen seventies.

I am a Liberal who believes that the second amendment within the Bill of Rights guarantees the right to own firearms.

[Guest]

Very interesting web site. I was hoping that there were those who didn't fully believe that you've got to bend so you don't break. That only works some of the time.

My Liberal bias doesn't extend to redefining the second amendment to insure that those in power keep that power. The second amendment was put in place partly because of the British confiscation of arms near Boston in the seventeen seventies.

I am a Liberal who believes that the second amendment within the Bill of Rights guarantees the right to own firearms.

Holden lied, People died.

[Guest]

Very interesting web site. I was hoping that there were those who didn't fully believe that you've got to bend so you don't break. That only works some of the time.

My Liberal bias doesn't extend to redefining the second amendment to insure that those in power keep that power. The second amendment was put in place partly because of the British confiscation of arms near Boston in the seventeen seventies.

I am a Liberal who believes that the second amendment within the Bill of Rights guarantees the right to own firearms.

Wow Tonyafd, Based on your comments, you are on a very slippery slope into the world of Tea Partyers :welcome:

[Guest]

Wow Tonyafd, Based on your comments, you are on a very slippery slope into the world of Tea Partyers :welcome:

I won't be going that far, but I do read Pat Buchanan from time to time. He is an interesting character. I think that he was thrown out of the Republican party because he wasn't on board with globalization.

[Guest]

I won't be going that far, but I do read Pat Buchanan from time to time. He is an interesting character. I think that he was thrown out of the Republican party because he wasn't on board with globalization.

On that note, here is a good one:

http://buchanan.org/blog/subdividing-america-to-win-4883

[Guest]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/12/issa-issues-subpoena-to-holder-in-fast-and-furious-investigation/

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http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/10/13/obama_spoke_about_fast__furious_before_holder_clai med_he_knew.html

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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/12/issa-issues-subpoena-to-holder-in-fast-and-furious-investigation/

Unbelievable. This is high treason if he OK'd this to happen. This is a first time I have seen us give weapons directly to the enemy during a battle.

[Guest]

Unbelievable. This is high treason if he OK'd this to happen. This is a first time I have seen us give weapons directly to the enemy during a battle.

Yes, and if Bush was president this would be shouted out on every form of media. Coddling this President has gone on too long. He is ruining this country!!!!

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Yes, and if Bush was president this would be shouted out on every form of media. Coddling this President has gone on too long. He is ruining this country!!!!

You're like Nero while Rome burned. :boom:

[Guest]

You're like Nero while Rome burned. :boom:

Thank you for adding clarity to this subject. I really look forward to your in depth analysis.

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I woldn't expect any less from the liberal media. Why would they bother to doan indepth investigation into Fast & Furious when they can cover serious stories such as who George Clooney is dating now which by the way is what most of their readers are interested in

[Guest]

You're like Nero while Rome burned. :boom:

I've thought I was getting a handle on your sense of humor, but you lost me on this one. Your analogy falls flat here. It doesn't make sense.

You gotta try harder. You can do it.

[Guest]

I've thought I was getting a handle on your sense of humor, but you lost me on this one. Your analogy falls flat here. It doesn't make sense.

You gotta try harder. You can do it.

Some thought the world was flat.

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Some thought the world was flat.

Thank you for adding clarity to this subject. I really look forward to your in depth analysis.

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Some thought the world was flat.

Nope. There's some strange goings on in your head, or I'm getting denser in my old age. I don't get it. Would like to but.....................no.

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There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man it is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity it is the middle ground between light and shadow between science and superstition and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge this is the dimension of imagination it is an area which we call- the Twilight Zone.

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There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man it is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity it is the middle ground between light and shadow between science and superstition and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge this is the dimension of imagination it is an area which we call- the Twilight Zone.

OOOHHH, now I get it. Thanks for the clarification VG. Dale and I must be in different time continuums. Now it makes perfect sense.

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:a20::a20:

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As reported in the Daily Sun today, "A second Bush administration gun-trafficking investigation has surfaced using the same controversial tactic for which congressional Republicans have been criticizing the Obama adminstration. This similar Bush Administration operation was called "Wide Receiver".

So, it looks as though Junior Bush was in on the same methods used today by the President that you now villify. Where was your outrage when Junior was doing it?

[Guest]

As reported in the Daily Sun today, "A second Bush administration gun-trafficking investigation has surfaced using the same controversial tactic for which congressional Republicans have been criticizing the Obama adminstration. This similar Bush Administration operation was called "Wide Receiver".

So, it looks as though Junior Bush was in on the same methods used today by the President that you now villify. Where was your outrage when Junior was doing it?

Yea, change we can believe in. The transparency president. What a fraud you voted for.

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Yes, and if Bush was president this would be shouted out on every form of media. Coddling this President has gone on too long. He is ruining this country!!!!

President Bush in fact employed a similar tactic during his presidency- Operation Wide Receiver.

[Guest]

Unaccountablity, irresponsibility, apathy, misjugement,spin,deception,etc are not the priviledge of Democrat or Republican and irrespective of whose political leaders acts of ommission or commission they must be met with rebuke from citizens. We must stand together not Democratic nor Republican,liberal or conservative and demand accountability of our elected leaders and their administrations or we will be doomed

[Guest]

Unaccountablity, irresponsibility, apathy, misjugement,spin,deception,etc are not the priviledge of Democrat or Republican and irrespective of whose political leaders acts of ommission or commission they must be met with rebuke from citizens. We must stand together not Democratic nor Republican,liberal or conservative and demand accountability of our elected leaders and their administrations or we will be doomed

Be careful. I have been smacked down hard for suggesting anything be done in conjunction with Democrats.

On the serious side, I agree 100%.

:BigApplause:

[Guest]

President Bush in fact employed a similar tactic during his presidency- Operation Wide Receiver.

The Bush/Gonzales Wide Receiver Operation was botched for a few reasons. Problems with tracking devices and an underestimation of the capabilities of the people the plan targeted.

A comparison of the mistakes of Wide Receiver to the scheme launched by Obama/Holder, which should have had the advantages of learning from the postmortem failures of Wide Receiver two years before.

Fast and Furious used no tracking devices or aircraft. Holder's ATF actually ran interference for smugglers with local law enforcement on multiple occasions, and federal agents were not allowed to interdict weapons.

The Wide Receiver Operation was botched law enforcement, while the gun-walking programs of the Obama administration were intentionally criminal and arguably terrorist acts of arming violent narco-terrorists waging war on a U.S. ally.

I hope this clarifies things for all you moral relativists. The Bush Administration screwed up the plan; The Obama Administration operated under an illegal and arguably terrorist plan.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/gunwalker-gunning-down-the-bush-did-it-too-lie/?singlepage=true

[Guest]

President Bush in fact employed a similar tactic during his presidency- Operation Wide Receiver.

Read Ritchie's informed analysis.

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So, in essence, it is fine to botch things up royally like Operation Wide Receiver.

Wow, double standard, even for the uber-conservatives on this forum. I would expect that out of some of your leaders such as Caribou Barbie but not on this forum.

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Read Ritchie's informed analysis.

So now we have analyst???? :boom:

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So now we have analyst???? :boom:

Trite....tiresome :boom:

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So, in essence, it is fine to botch things up royally like Operation Wide Receiver.

Wow, double standard, even for the uber-conservatives on this forum. I would expect that out of some of your leaders such as Caribou Barbie but not on this forum.

Double Standard? It's as different as having a car accident, as opposed to someone deliberately crashing into you with his car, with malice.

The person accidentally hitting you may have been a jerk, but the monster who deliberately hits you is committing a criminal act.

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Trite....tiresome :boom:

Nothing original??? :boom:

[Guest]

Read Ritchie's informed analysis.

Back to you Chet....:boom:

[Guest]

Be careful. I have been smacked down hard for suggesting anything be done in conjunction with Democrats.

On the serious side, I agree 100%.

:BigApplause:

Villager II My Dad was so involved with poltiics campaigning for the local supervisor to the governor of our state. He was to his dying day a Democrat. His closet boyhood friend was a Republican but despite debates that left one with the impression that it would resort to hand to hand combat these guys and their other friends never never let poltical views interfere with their friendship. We have lost that art in this country all the way to the POTUS and that indeed it very very sad.

I prefer my father and his friends' philosophy to the toxic poltical environment of today. We must constantly remind ourselves that men and women fought and died to preserve our freedom and to exercise those freedoms in a fiar balanced and constructive manner. "God Bless America"

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Villager II My Dad was so involved with poltiics campaigning for the local supervisor to the governor of our state. He was to his dying day a Democrat. His closet boyhood friend was a Republican but despite debates that left one with the impression that it would resort to hand to hand combat these guys and their other friends never never let poltical views interfere with their friendship. We have lost that art in this country all the way to the POTUS and that indeed it very very sad.

I prefer my father and his friends' philosophy to the toxic poltical environment of today. We must constantly remind ourselves that men and women fought and died to preserve our freedom and to exercise those freedoms in a fiar balanced and constructive manner. "God Bless America"

You are absolutely right about that. I have some in my family who are of a liberal mindset, and friends as well.

Right here in The Villages I have both conservative and liberal friends, and in addition to our golfing adventures, we also get together weekly and hang out and shoot the breeze about everything from sports to politics, over adult beverages. I'm not sure which subject is more contentious.

There are two posters on this forum of the liberal persuasion who are among those liberal friends of mine, and politically we couldn't be more polar opposites, and thus the conversation is always interesting. The fun is in discovering some opinions that we share. It's normally a shock to all of us.

We all know the world is in precarious balance right now and we have different views on the cause of the imbalance. It doesn't mean I can't support my friends in all the flesh and blood aspects of their lives as we try to figure those things out.