Local Illegal Immigration

[Guest]

I am sure some of the uber-conservatives have noticed all the construction in The Villages. Some may not have because their heads are always in the sand, but I digress.

Do you honestly believe that all the roofers, framers, and gofers are legal immigrants and/or American citizens?

If ICE swooped in and made some mass arrests and deportations of these Villages construction workers, what would happen if there were no more illegals? Building would stop, communities would remain partially built, homesales would stop, your home values would plummet, your Villages dream would burst.

The slack would not be picked up by American citizens. It would be a job-killer in the community and surrounding towns.

Be careful what you wish for. It may not be what you really want.

[Guest]

I am sure some of the uber-conservatives have noticed all the construction in The Villages. Some may not have because their heads are always in the sand, but I digress.

Do you honestly believe that all the roofers, framers, and gofers are legal immigrants and/or American citizens?

If ICE swooped in and made some mass arrests and deportations of these Villages construction workers, what would happen if there were no more illegals? Building would stop, communities would remain partially built, homesales would stop, your home values would plummet, your Villages dream would burst.

The slack would not be picked up by American citizens. It would be a job-killer in the community and surrounding towns.

Be careful what you wish for. It may not be what you really want.


Interesting point but do you have any proof or are you one ofe those with his head in the sand.

[Guest]

I am sure some of the uber-conservatives have noticed all the construction in The Villages. Some may not have because their heads are always in the sand, but I digress.

Do you honestly believe that all the roofers, framers, and gofers are legal immigrants and/or American citizens?

If ICE swooped in and made some mass arrests and deportations of these Villages construction workers, what would happen if there were no more illegals? Building would stop, communities would remain partially built, homesales would stop, your home values would plummet, your Villages dream would burst.

The slack would not be picked up by American citizens. It would be a job-killer in the community and surrounding towns.

Be careful what you wish for. It may not be what you really want.

You make reckless assumptions about employees, more assumptions about people's reactions to these assumptions, and more and more assumptions connected to those assumptions.

It's just too many assumptions for me to digest.

[Guest]

I would bet against the following:

"The slack would not be picked up by American citizens."

I would bet the vacuum would fill quite quickly. There might be a pause of forward momentum for the word to get out. And TV might have to pay higher wages and hence newcomers would have to pay more than we did.

What a desolate future we have. Dependent on oil from people who hate us. Dependent on sneakers and blouses (and almost everything else) from people who would own us. Our homes and neighborhoods built by people here illegally/breaking the law. Makes one wonder how we were able to do and accomplish what we have before all this permissiveness was allowed to fester?

The 11-15 million illegals do not determine the destiny of the other 300 million that live here.....at least not yet anyway!!

btk

[Guest]

I am sure some of the uber-conservatives have noticed all the construction in The Villages. Some may not have because their heads are always in the sand, but I digress.

Do you honestly believe that all the roofers, framers, and gofers are legal immigrants and/or American citizens?

If ICE swooped in and made some mass arrests and deportations of these Villages construction workers, what would happen if there were no more illegals? Building would stop, communities would remain partially built, homesales would stop, your home values would plummet, your Villages dream would burst.

The slack would not be picked up by American citizens. It would be a job-killer in the community and surrounding towns.

Be careful what you wish for. It may not be what you really want.



I posed a question on the other illegal immigration thread.

Buggy...exactly what would YOU do about the illegal immigration situation.

I am anxious to hear your insight.

[Guest]

You make reckless assumptions about employees, more assumptions about people's reactions to these assumptions, and more and more assumptions connected to those assumptions.

It's just too many assumptions for me to digest.

Yet.......I assume you disagree. :icon_wink:

[Guest]

Well I do know that last year T D Concrete lost 60 employees in one day when I N S came in and with the help of T D because of non documented people so yes it is very evident that what buggy said is true face facts the problem is here .

[Guest]

Whenever we have had work done, I asked the person giving estimates if all their emloyees are legal and so far they have told me that they are. We have not had a bird cage installed, but have had landscaping done. When we contracted with the lawm maintenance, we were told their employees are all legal.

[Guest]

Richie said, "You make reckless assumptions about employees, more assumptions about people's reactions to these assumptions, and more and more assumptions connected to those assumptions."

I only asked if you honestly believed all the construction workers from Villages contractors and subcontractors at all levels were legal immigrants or American citizens. I did not say they were not - but asked your beliefs.

BTK thinks a gap would be picked up by American workers but we would be paying more for our houses.

Richie just cannot digest - get some Rol-Aids.

Greg asks the contractor if the employees are legal - but do you have verifiable proof?

CeeJay wonders what I would do. I am not advocating picking them up and deporting workers. Hard working people doing the work Americans will not do. Look at the strawberry fields in Plant City and the rotting fruit crops in Alabama. It is costing millions of dollars to have these narrow-minded attitudes.

Figmo wants to move in with me and wants to know my address. I told him earlier it is the house with the large "OccupyThe Villages" sign surrounded by plastic pink flamingos.

[Guest]

I am sure some of the uber-conservatives have noticed all the construction in The Villages. Some may not have because their heads are always in the sand, but I digress.

Do you honestly believe that all the roofers, framers, and gofers are legal immigrants and/or American citizens?

If ICE swooped in and made some mass arrests and deportations of these Villages construction workers, what would happen if there were no more illegals? Building would stop, communities would remain partially built, homesales would stop, your home values would plummet, your Villages dream would burst.

The slack would not be picked up by American citizens. It would be a job-killer in the community and surrounding towns.

Be careful what you wish for. It may not be what you really want.

Why would you assume the construction workers are illegals, Buggy? Did you talk to them or are you making assumptions based on the physical appearances of people and their occupations? The entire premise of your question is really prejudicial, racist, fully of hateful stereotyping and just plain wrong, IMHO.

If you could word your question without it being full of hatemongering toward people with brown skin, we may be able to discuss the issue using Alabama's illegal immigrants workers' laws and unemployment figures in the state. Just sayin.'

[Guest]

Richie said, "You make reckless assumptions about employees, more assumptions about people's reactions to these assumptions, and more and more assumptions connected to those assumptions."

I only asked if you honestly believed all the construction workers from Villages contractors and subcontractors at all levels were legal immigrants or American citizens. I did not say they were not - but asked your beliefs.

BTK thinks a gap would be picked up by American workers but we would be paying more for our houses.

Richie just cannot digest - get some Rol-Aids.

Greg asks the contractor if the employees are legal - but do you have verifiable proof?

CeeJay wonders what I would do. I am not advocating picking them up and deporting workers. Hard working people doing the work Americans will not do. Look at the strawberry fields in Plant City and the rotting fruit crops in Alabama. It is costing millions of dollars to have these narrow-minded attitudes.

Figmo wants to move in with me and wants to know my address. I told him earlier it is the house with the large "OccupyThe Villages" sign surrounded by plastic pink flamingos.

Sooo...let me ask again. What would YOU do about the illegal immigration situation?

Inquiring minds really, really want to know!

[Guest]

I said I was not in favor of arresting and deporting them. That is what I would do.

Now, CeeJay, you must have your own thoughts on the matter. Let's have your full and complete thoughts. Remembering, of course, what consequesnces can be such as rotting fruits that are not picked by migrants because Americans will not do the work - and thus forcing farmers out of business and prices to skyrocket; homes that will not built and causing more shortages in housing - causing massive layoffs in business that relies on these markets.

[Guest]

Quote:
Originally Posted by billethkid
What is wrong with enforcing the laws of the land that are currently on the books regarding the process for legal immigration into the USA?

Why is it selective? If one is coming across the Atlantic they must follow the laws of the land to get in. Imagine, having to wait, standing in line to show paperwork before being allowed to enter. Even coming from Canada?

So why are so many Americans working so hard at trying to figure out how to deal with "ILLEGAL" immigrants?

So why all the duress over an issue that already has a solution? Because of the politics!! It is as simple as that. This is what we get when it becomes questionable whether to do what is right.

Follow the law like those coming across all our other borders. Just like we all have to do when we go to Mexico or any other civilized country.

Is it any wonder why other countries are always ready to try us on? When they see the law is applied sometimes and other times not.

Totally ridiculous side stepping the real underlying issues for the sake of a few spine less politicians.

btk


Another spot on post by BTK...how can you argue with the law? (posted by me, CeeJay) __________________

These are my thoughts on the illegal immigrant situation. Only BTK says it much better than I can. You have to take the bad with the good...so strawberries may rot and houses will take longer to build...
How can you argue with the LAW?

[Guest]

I said I was not in favor of arresting and deporting them. That is what I would do.

:shrug: Huh? :shrug:

[Guest]

I think anyone here illegally should be deported...period. No matter if they're one minute old or one hundred years old. Age is not important.

It's isn't fair to the folks that go through the proper channels to come here for these illegals to get a fast path to anything but a trip back home.

I have Canadian friends who have invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in homes here and can only spend 6 months in the US. The ones that are trying to get green cards, to stay here a little longer and getting nothing but grief from the government.

Asking a contractor/landscaper if they use illegals...ha ha I'm sure they'd tell you they're using illegal aliens...NOT.

The economy is not going to tank, because we deport ALL illegals.

This should be a simple issue, in my opinion.

[Guest]

I said I was not in favor of arresting and deporting them. That is what I would do.

Now, CeeJay, you must have your own thoughts on the matter. Let's have your full and complete thoughts. Remembering, of course, what consequesnces can be such as rotting fruits that are not picked by migrants because Americans will not do the work - and thus forcing farmers out of business and prices to skyrocket; homes that will not built and causing more shortages in housing - causing massive layoffs in business that relies on these markets.


You offer these jobs and job training to the folks on unemployment and cut out the welfare to the people on it that are physically and mentally capable of working and if they refuse then they lose those benefits. You would be amazed at the jobs people will take if they really have to

[Guest]

I think anyone here illegally should be deported...period. No matter if they're one minute old or one hundred years old. Age is not important.

It's isn't fair to the folks that go through the proper channels to come here for these illegals to get a fast path to anything but a trip back home.

I have Canadian friends who have invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in homes here and can only spend 6 months in the US. The ones that are trying to get green cards, to stay here a little longer and getting nothing but grief from the government.

Asking a contractor/landscaper if they use illegals...ha ha I'm sure they'd tell you they're using illegal aliens...NOT.

The economy is not going to tank, because we deport ALL illegals.

This should be a simple issue, in my opinion.

:agree::agree:

My dear lady family physician is from Pakistan. She arrived here legally and has many family members still waiting their legal turn to enter the USA. This illegal immigration double standard that favors those crossing from Mexico upsets her greatly. :ohdear:

[Guest]

Quote:



__________________

These are my thoughts on the illegal immigrant situation. Only BTK says it much better than I can. You have to take the bad with the good...so strawberries may rot and houses will take longer to build...
How can you argue with the LAW?

Laws are changed all the time. That's the purpose of the state legislatures.

[Guest]

I think anyone here illegally should be deported...period. No matter if they're one minute old or one hundred years old. Age is not important.

It's isn't fair to the folks that go through the proper channels to come here for these illegals to get a fast path to anything but a trip back home.

I have Canadian friends who have invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in homes here and can only spend 6 months in the US. The ones that are trying to get green cards, to stay here a little longer and getting nothing but grief from the government.

Asking a contractor/landscaper if they use illegals...ha ha I'm sure they'd tell you they're using illegal aliens...NOT.

The economy is not going to tank, because we deport ALL illegals.

This should be a simple issue, in my opinion.

I thought the six month maximum stay law is a Canadian law that, if broken, would prevent Canadians from receiving their government run socialized medical coverage.

[Guest]

I thought the six month maximum stay law is a Canadian law that, if broken, would prevent Canadians from receiving their government run socialized medical coverage.

I have been told by Canadians, that they are not permitted to stay longer than 6 months/year by the US government. I believe they also have some health insurance impact, but that is their choice. Staying in the US is not.

Perhaps some of our Canadian or British friends can enlighten us ???

[Guest]

I do understand what a lot are saying about deporting illegal immigrants because they are breaking the law. However, look at the economic side.

Americans will not take the backbreaking jobs of picking crops. Farmers in Alabama have found that out with their recent immigration law. Farmers in Alabama are going bankrupt because of this law. That effects the rest of the economy. Manassas, Virginia passed an anti-immigration law a few years ago and it backfired on them. Postville, Iowa had ICE round up all the illegals working at their huge meat packing plant. As a result, the plant closed, houses standing empty in town, and the entire town is dried up for all business. Bankruptcies and foreclosures abound. If the home building in The Villages goes that way, more and more of the economy will suffer. The industries and stores that rely on home building will dry up. Our community will become undesirable with half built houses standing around and our home values will drop.

Very tough question and no easy solution.

[Guest]

A little over a month ago there was no mention of problems getting in the crop. Any recent news that can be shared?

Florida brings larger, earlier strawberry crop - News (http://www.thepacker.com/fruit-vegetable-news/Florida-strawberries--135125983.html)

[Guest]

A little over a month ago there was no mention of problems getting in the crop. Any recent news that can be shared?

Florida brings larger, earlier strawberry crop - News (http://www.thepacker.com/fruit-vegetable-news/Florida-strawberries--135125983.html)


Also, in Alabama, "All indications point to 2011 as a record-setting year for farm income. A new report from the Agriculture Department forecasts that net farm income will top $100 billion for the first time ever.

"'That's one part of the story and production expenses have also increased,' said Matt Erickson, an American Farm Bureau Federation economist. 'Net farm income is actually supposed to increase 28 percent this year, but on the other hand, production costs are also supposed to increase,' he noted.

"Year-over-year, production expenses exceeded $300 billion for the first time and are expected to be at $320 billion, a 12 percent year-over-year increase..."

ALFA Farmers Federation - FARM INCOME AND EXPENSES LIKELY TO SET RECORDS (http://www.alfafarmers.org/headlines/headline.phtml?id=6142)

And, "(Alabama) state Sen. Scott Beason, R-Gardendale, said Alabama’s unemployment rate has improved much faster than the rest of the country and he pointed to news stories that he said support the contention that the immigration policy is the reason. He said Alabamians who were out of work are now getting jobs formerly held by illegal immigrants.

“In three months, Alabama has dropped 1.7 (percentage) points to a level below the national average,” Beason said. “People are going back to work.”

Legislators study ways to lure new industries | TuscaloosaNews.com (http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20120127/NEWS/120129815/1291/dateline?p=1&tc=pg)

[Guest]

Very interesting article on this link. Central Alabama farmers warn state immigration law leaves crops at risk | al.com (http://blog.al.com/wire/2011/09/central_alabama_farmers_warn_s.html)

Alabama farmers losing immigrant labor, see produce rotting in the fields | al.com (http://blog.al.com/breaking/2011/09/alabama_farmers_losing_immigra.html)

How Alabama’s immigration law is crippling its farms - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-alabamas-immigration-law-is-crippling-its-farms/2011/11/01/gIQAg0JvjM_story.html)

[Guest]

A little over a month ago there was no mention of problems getting in the crop. Any recent news that can be shared?

Florida brings larger, earlier strawberry crop - News (http://www.thepacker.com/fruit-vegetable-news/Florida-strawberries--135125983.html)

Go to abcactionnews.com and search for article titled "Despite High Unemployment, Farms Can't Find Workers To Pick Strawberries" posted Jan 24.

[Guest]

Go to abcactionnews.com and search for article titled "Despite High Unemployment, Farms Can't Find Workers To Pick Strawberries" posted Jan 24.

Found it. Thanks.

[Guest]

Greg asks the contractor if the employees are legal - but do you have verifiable proof?

I don't know how you could verify. The only way I know is to go to Hawaii and check their birth records.

[Guest]

I don't know how you could verify. The only way I know is to go to Hawaii and check their birth records.

:1rotfl:

[Guest]

Just call Donald Trump. He has all the investigators still in Hawaii.

[Guest]

well the posts have been offering opinions of what to do about the illegals in our country.

I do not think the law should be changed to allow illegals to stay. People coming from Europe and every place else in the world have been doing it according to the law. So it works. Enforce the laws we have.

Nobody suggested shutting off the flow of illegals from Mexico and points South. Why not? How much more simple can it be than to enforce the law starting tomorrow at the border. Shut it down. No papers. No entry. No excuses!! Just like our other borders.

The other side of the problem...what to do with those who are here. Put the word out that they have 60 or what ever days to get proper paper work. Then after 60 days (or an appropriate number but less than 6 months for sure) no papers, no work. No excuses.
Maybe they get an offset for the time spent here toward getting appropriate paperwork.

Stop the flow in tomorrow. Get the current illegals, legal. Enforce the law. No excuses.

It is really, very simple to fix. Politicians are absolutely incapable.

btk

[Guest]

During the apple harvest season the growers would "order" X number of foreign workers estimated to get the job done. The amount would rise and fall as the season progressed. I believe they were "ordered" from the Employment Commission. The Growers Association also operated the migrant workers camp. This was in Winchester, Virginia. Once the self proclaimed Apple Capital of the World. That was years ago and I don't know what they do now. Most of the workers use to be from the Bahamas. They kept moving on to the next crop somewhere and not staying. Where all that broke down into not going home when the work was done I don't know.

[Guest]

Winchester is one of the most scenic towns in Virginia - also Patsy Cline's hometown. Been there many times.

[Guest]

Winchester is one of the most scenic towns in Virginia - also Patsy Cline's hometown. Been there many times.

Proud to call it my hometown too. My Grandfather bought plots close to Patsy. He use to say he wanted to be able to hear her sing forever.

[Guest]

Why would you assume the construction workers are illegals, Buggy? Did you talk to them or are you making assumptions based on the physical appearances of people and their occupations? The entire premise of your question is really prejudicial, racist, fully of hateful stereotyping and just plain wrong, IMHO.

If you could word your question without it being full of hatemongering toward people with brown skin, we may be able to discuss the issue using Alabama's illegal immigrants workers' laws and unemployment figures in the state. Just sayin.'

BKCunningham1, I only asked if you honestly believed all the construction workers from Villages contractors and subcontractors at all levels were legal immigrants or American citizens. I did not say they were not - but asked your beliefs. If you would ask me, I would guess a portion are not documented workers based upon the great number of workers doing construction in The Villages.

Now that I stated that, I would like to know what YOU believe The Villages and the surrounding area would do without workers that ARE undocumented. Personally, I think they are necessary to our economy be it for construction work, farm labor work, or other jobs that are hard to fill with American citizens.

[Guest]

I mentioned once before that I had some extensive landscaping done a few months ago. The landscape architect was American and the crew leader was as well. But all the other employees were Mexican and from what I could hear, none spoke a word of English. Having said that, I've never seen a crew work so hard, producing such high quality work. I commented at the time that I'd be surprised if any Americans would work that hard for whatever they were paid. (Yes, that is an assumption!)

Last week I had crown molding installed. The contractor and master carpenter was American. But the entire rest of the six-man crew were Mexican. Four of them were painters and drove 90-minutes from Orlando every day for the jobs booked by the contractor in The Villages. They were in and out in one day, installing molding in every single room in my house. From what I can see, the job is perfect. The painters finished last and swept and vacuumed their way out of the house as they left. Our house was as clean as when they started six hours earlier. Would a crew of six Americans work that hard, producing that level of quality? Never in my life have I had a totally American crew do so for any kind of home improvement project. So I assume it isn't likely here in The Villages either.

All I know is that I am very pleased that there are workers serving The Villages who work so hard and produce such high quality. And honestly, I don't much care whether they have a green card or not. If I had the choice of hiring Americans who would produce the same result for the same price, of course I'd opt to hire them. But guess what? I never have that choice, even though the unemployment rate is well over the national average just outside The Villages. Why don't local contractors hire the unemployed Americans that are obviously available? That answer is pretty obvious.

[Guest]

Perfectly said, VK. You truly are a wise Kahuna.

[Guest]

Why would you assume the construction workers are illegals, Buggy? Did you talk to them or are you making assumptions based on the physical appearances of people and their occupations? The entire premise of your question is really prejudicial, racist, fully of hateful stereotyping and just plain wrong, IMHO.

If you could word your question without it being full of hatemongering toward people with brown skin, we may be able to discuss the issue using Alabama's illegal immigrants workers' laws and unemployment figures in the state. Just sayin.'

BKCunningham1, I only asked if you honestly believed all the construction workers from Villages contractors and subcontractors at all levels were legal immigrants or American citizens. I did not say they were not - but asked your beliefs. If you would ask me, I would guess a portion are not documented workers based upon the great number of workers doing construction in The Villages.

Now that I stated that, I would like to know what YOU believe The Villages and the surrounding area would do without workers that ARE undocumented. Personally, I think they are necessary to our economy be it for construction work, farm labor work, or other jobs that are hard to fill with American citizens.

Buggy, why do you think undocumented workers are essential for our economy? Because they work under the table and for little money? Because they work hard? Because the can be treated like slaves with no legal recourse? You say, "undocumented" workers; I say they are what they are, illegals. Why not let them take the route others take when they come to this country to work? It just sounds like you want to keep them beat down. Let's teach them the legal route and help them be upstanding citizens instead of cowering in the shadows when they hear ICE.

[Guest]

I have been told by Canadians, that they are not permitted to stay longer than 6 months/year by the US government. I believe they also have some health insurance impact, but that is their choice. Staying in the US is not.

Perhaps some of our Canadian or British friends can enlighten us ???

Yes, the six-month maximum stay here in the U.S. is mandated by the U.S. government.

The Canadian health insurance requirement is actually seven months; if Canadians are out of the country for longer than seven months, whether in the U.S. or anywhere else in the world, that is when they lose their health coverage.

[Guest]

I mentioned once before that I had some extensive landscaping done a few months ago. The landscape architect was American and the crew leader was as well. But all the other employees were Mexican and from what I could hear, none spoke a word of English. Having said that, I've never seen a crew work so hard, producing such high quality work. I commented at the time that I'd be surprised if any Americans would work that hard for whatever they were paid. (Yes, that is an assumption!)

Last week I had crown molding installed. The contractor and master carpenter was American. But the entire rest of the six-man crew were Mexican. Four of them were painters and drove 90-minutes from Orlando every day for the jobs booked by the contractor in The Villages. They were in and out in one day, installing molding in every single room in my house. From what I can see, the job is perfect. The painters finished last and swept and vacuumed their way out of the house as they left. Our house was as clean as when they started six hours earlier. Would a crew of six Americans work that hard, producing that level of quality? Never in my life have I had a totally American crew do so for any kind of home improvement project. So I assume it isn't likely here in The Villages either.

All I know is that I am very pleased that there are workers serving The Villages who work so hard and produce such high quality. And honestly, I don't much care whether they have a green card or not. If I had the choice of hiring Americans who would produce the same result for the same price, of course I'd opt to hire them. But guess what? I never have that choice, even though the unemployment rate is well over the national average just outside The Villages. Why don't local contractors hire the unemployed Americans that are obviously available? That answer is pretty obvious.

OK, but you're making assumptions here, starting with the citizenship and/or the legality of the workers. Maybe a little stereotyping?

The obvious answer to your last wonderings is obvious, I agree. Americans won't work for the substandard wages that illegals will accept from the exploitive contractors who hire them. (that not saying the workers at your home were illegal or exploited)