Whose ox is being gored?

[Guest]

I love to see the two mouths of our Republican friends. One side calls for "government - keep your hands out of our affairs" and the other side says "government - give us more Federal money".

Prime example of this are farm subsidies. They were started first under FDR and have carried forth to the present day. Most farmers get some crop subsidies either in the artifical boosting of crop prices or in the program to have a portion of their land lay fallow. I have some of my farming relatives who take over $80,000 annually in subsidies - and this is on top of their farm income.

If the subsidies were done away with completely, you would have farmers raising more and more crops and putting them on the free market. Crop prices would drop low and the small farms would go out of business. Well, this is lassiez-faire or "government - stay out of our business". Would this be a plan for the Republicans? Put family farmers out of business?

The States Rights people also say the Federal government should not have anything to do with state governments if it is not stated in the Constitution. I am sure the folks in tornado hit areas of Indiana, Tennessee, and Missouri are going to plenty glad to have FEMA come in with their assistance in the form of housing and in Federal money.

I have not seen any Republican candidate speak out and say he is going to legislate to do away with subsidies on soybeans, corn or wheat. In fact, Bachmann is still receiving subsidies on a farm that had been owned by family.

[Guest]

One notable "conservative" on this site said maybe there needs to be a "program" to make sure foreign students return home. Don't "programs" call for Big Government to step in?

[Guest]

How about the big oil subsidies to the tune of 40 billion dollars that republicans refuse to withdraw? Wait until the end of the first quarter and see what the oil company profits are and tell me they need a four billion dollar government subsidy per year.

[Guest]

how about the new one revealed this morning?
Wind farm subsidies!!!! Out West they have a coincidence occurring where the snow melt and the warming air winds are both happening at the same time. As a result the rivers are full and the dams are working their generators full blast. The wind farms are also producing at a record pace. And wouldn't ya that together they are producing more energy than can be used by the grids they feed!!! And since dams and water have the priority, the wind farms are cutting back. That means less revenue. That means unhappy wind farm owners.

They are now seeking from the federal government a "make up" amount of money to replace their lost revenues. Could be some where between $50 and $60 million dollars.

There is so much wrong with this scenario it is rather scary because the request is being advanced.

No I can't supply a link it was a news clip on one of the networks this morning.

The precedent has been establish and ongoing. The federal government supplements those companies that cannot make their income statement and balance sheets work as planned. It is very amusing that those who can't make it are requesting financial help from an organization itself that cannot make it. However, they do have UNLIMITED CREDIT....eh!!

btk

[Guest]

how about the new one revealed this morning?
Wind farm subsidies!!!! Out West they have a coincidence occurring where the snow melt and the warming air winds are both happening at the same time. As a result the rivers are full and the dams are working their generators full blast. The wind farms are also producing at a record pace. And wouldn't ya that together they are producing more energy than can be used by the grids they feed!!! And since dams and water have the priority, the wind farms are cutting back. That means less revenue. That means unhappy wind farm owners.

They are now seeking from the federal government a "make up" amount of money to replace their lost revenues. Could be some where between $50 and $60 million dollars.

There is so much wrong with this scenario it is rather scary because the request is being advanced.

No I can't supply a link it was a news clip on one of the networks this morning.

The precedent has been establish and ongoing. The federal government supplements those companies that cannot make their income statement and balance sheets work as planned. It is very amusing that those who can't make it are requesting financial help from an organization itself that cannot make it. However, they do have UNLIMITED CREDIT....eh!!

btk

P*ss Poor Planning. Like it's the first time there was a snow melt. They should have seen that one coming and put it in the Operating Budget. When is the Government going to stop the bleeding?

[Guest]

So, did anyone hear any of the Republican candidates during this campaign speak of introducing legislation to stop farm subsidies or to stop Federal Crop Insurance? Maybe if the Federal Government would get out of the crop insurance business, it could be picked up by State Farm, GEICO, or Allstate. Once again, isn't that another tent that the Federal camel got his nose into and crawled right inside?

[Guest]

I did read about folks who want the government out of their bed rooms and away from their bodies then turn around and want the same government to provide them with free contraceptives.

[Guest]

I love to see the two mouths of our Republican friends. One side calls for "government - keep your hands out of our affairs" and the other side says "government - give us more Federal money".

Prime example of this are farm subsidies. They were started first under FDR and have carried forth to the present day. Most farmers get some crop subsidies either in the artifical boosting of crop prices or in the program to have a portion of their land lay fallow. I have some of my farming relatives who take over $80,000 annually in subsidies - and this is on top of their farm income.

If the subsidies were done away with completely, you would have farmers raising more and more crops and putting them on the free market. Crop prices would drop low and the small farms would go out of business. Well, this is lassiez-faire or "government - stay out of our business". Would this be a plan for the Republicans? Put family farmers out of business?

The States Rights people also say the Federal government should not have anything to do with state governments if it is not stated in the Constitution. I am sure the folks in tornado hit areas of Indiana, Tennessee, and Missouri are going to plenty glad to have FEMA come in with their assistance in the form of housing and in Federal money.

I have not seen any Republican candidate speak out and say he is going to legislate to do away with subsidies on soybeans, corn or wheat. In fact, Bachmann is still receiving subsidies on a farm that had been owned by family.

I hate to agree with you but, you have a valid point.

[Guest]

I did read about folks who want the government out of their bed rooms and away from their bodies then turn around and want the same government to provide them with free contraceptives.

Are you referring to the Fluke testimony? If so, please stop lying. Nowhere was it said that the (government* was to provide free contraception.

If you're referring to something else - some other government program, please elaborate.

[Guest]

Cons only want the government in their lives when it suits them. See Virginia law just passed. This nonsense about smaller government is just that nonsense.

[Guest]

Cons only want the government in their lives when it suits them. See Virginia law just passed. This nonsense about smaller government is just that nonsense.

Which Virginia law? The General Assembly has been in session so there are lots of them.

[Guest]

I've made the report on this subject here before.

A few years ago it was reported that the largest recipient of farm subsidies in Illinois was Scottie Pippen, then performing as a forward for the Chicago Bulls.

Let's see...Bulls...cattle...farm...subsidies arranged by his slick financial advisor. Yep, I got it. Really a great program to support those poor family farmers. I wonder which lobbyist the family farmers hired to buy votes to continue these subsidies?

Has anyone heard the candidates, from either party but particularly the supposedly more conservative GOP, saying anything about eliminating these programs?

Oh yeah, I know...they're out trying to pander for votes in states like Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, Illinois and Indiana.

[Guest]

Point made! Need I say more about these self-serving politicians?

[Guest]

I've made the report on this subject here before.

A few years ago it was reported that the largest recipient of farm subsidies in Illinois was Scottie Pippen, then performing as a forward for the Chicago Bulls.

Let's see...Bulls...cattle...farm...subsidies arranged by his slick financial advisor. Yep, I got it. Really a great program to support those poor family farmers. I wonder which lobbyist the family farmers hired to buy votes to continue these subsidies?

Has anyone heard the candidates, from either party but particularly the supposedly more conservative GOP, saying anything about eliminating these programs?

Oh yeah, I know...they're out trying to pander for votes in states like Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, Illinois and Indiana.


I am not really up to snuff on this subject, but wonder why your post was addressed to THE RIGHT. Is not the left running the Senate and the WH ? Are they moving forward on anything ? Or even proposed something in the house ?

[Guest]

just look back to not too long ago when Obama had both houses of congress on his side....not much got moved along then either!

btk

[Guest]

billy,your post makes it sound like Obama could pass anything he wanted. Unfortunately not true. You and I know why dont we? Stop the misinformation please.

[Guest]

billy,your post makes it sound like Obama could pass anything he wanted. Unfortunately not true. You and I know why dont we? Stop the misinformation please.

Has the Democrat Congress, when they had control, or the current Democrat controlled Senate, or has Obama asked for, any legislation concerning a proposed tightening or eliminating, or in fact anything, to do with "farm subsidies" or whatever it is that Buggy or VK are pontificating about???

I can answer that..............NO, they haven't.

Stop the misinformation, please.

[Guest]

I am not really up to snuff on this subject, but wonder why your post was addressed to THE RIGHT. Is not the left running the Senate and the WH ? Are they moving forward on anything ? Or even proposed something in the house ?I mentioned BOTH parties, Bucco. But I did refer to the GOP as the party with most conservative fiscal values, who might begin to oppose giveaway programs like this.

My reference also had to do with the GOP primary, the only primary where there is any dialog back and forth between the candidates. Have you heard anything there about withdrawing the benefits of these subsidy programs. I would have hoped that at least one of the candidates would have mentioned it by now. I certainly don't expect to hear anything from the Democrats. But if no one mentions it or makes a proposal, it's pretty certain that nothing is going to happen.

[Guest]

I mentioned BOTH parties, Bucco. But I did refer to the GOP as the party with most conservative fiscal values, who might begin to oppose giveaway programs like this.

My reference also had to do with the GOP primary, the only primary where there is any dialog back and forth between the candidates. Have you heard anything there about withdrawing ther benefits of these subsidy programs. I would have hoped that at least one of the candidates would have mentioned it by now.

To honestly respond to your question, no I have not heard it mentioned on the campaign AND to be further honest I understand that Obama;s budget reduces these subsidies.

Now, in my opinion and this is more about the primary than the referred to subject.....if they did discuss it it would be lost in the shuffle as the media could care less to talk about something like that....also, if any candidate did bring it up, it would be Romney or Paul, and the media is in love with ridicule rather than covering anything. That is just my opinion...I am not in love with this primary at all.

[Guest]

I mentioned BOTH parties, Bucco. But I did refer to the GOP as the party with most conservative fiscal values, who might begin to oppose giveaway programs like this.

My reference also had to do with the GOP primary, the only primary where there is any dialog back and forth between the candidates. Have you heard anything there about withdrawing the benefits of these subsidy programs. I would have hoped that at least one of the candidates would have mentioned it by now. I certainly don't expect to hear anything from the Democrats. But if no one mentions it or makes a proposal, it's pretty certain that nothing is going to happen.


VK restated it absolutely perfectly. No, there has not been any legislation or talk of eliminating farm subsidies but you sure think the Republicans who are supposed to be so fiscally conservative and against all government money being spent would have brought it up on campaign.

No, wait - not a smart thing to do in the states like Minnesota, Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, Illinois, etc. Let those possible voters slop at the public trough but talk about stopping food stamps, free lunches for schoolkids, and stopping unemployment benefits for the people who would not vote Republican anyhow is the right plan?

[Guest]

VK restated it absolutely perfectly. No, there has not been any legislation or talk of eliminating farm subsidies but you sure think the Republicans who are supposed to be so fiscally conservative and against all government money being spent would have brought it up on campaign.

No, wait - not a smart thing to do in the states like Minnesota, Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, Illinois, etc. Let those possible voters slop at the public trough but talk about stopping food stamps, free lunches for schoolkids, and stopping unemployment benefits for the people who would not vote Republican anyhow is the right plan?

Yeah, those Democrats sure have done that in the past, and the Democrats would never act this way....I sure wish I was a party guy and could find a party of such saints as the Democrats are.

And I gave your hero all the credit in another post for cutting the subsidies but always wonder why what he does has a famaliar ring to it...

"Farmers who most need assistance will continue to get it, but "wealthy farmers" should be cut off from the billions of dollars the U.S. Department of Agriculture doles out every year, according to the budget proposal. "

Obama Seeks to Trim Farm, Insurance Subsidies - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704107204575039191591804702.html)

Not saying he is wrong in this one....certainly have not looked into it as much as you obviously have.


By the way, you aim everything to the right...but you do know he tried to do a similiar thing in 2010 and was stopped by his own party who would not allow it...not just his party but both....but when you aim, aim correctly !

[Guest]

Yeah, those Democrats sure have done that in the past, and the Democrats would never act this way....I sure wish I was a party guy and could find a party of such saints as the Democrats are.

And I gave your hero all the credit in another post for cutting the subsidies but always wonder why what he does has a famaliar ring to it...

"Farmers who most need assistance will continue to get it, but "wealthy farmers" should be cut off from the billions of dollars the U.S. Department of Agriculture doles out every year, according to the budget proposal. "

Obama Seeks to Trim Farm, Insurance Subsidies - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704107204575039191591804702.html)

Not saying he is wrong in this one....certainly have not looked into it as much as you obviously have.


By the way, you aim everything to the right...but you do know he tried to do a similiar thing in 2010 and was stopped by his own party who would not allow it...not just his party but both....but when you aim, aim correctly !

Good to hear from you, Bucco and glad you decided not to leave.

Anyhow, Pres. Obama is NOT my hero. I do admire the man for his achievements. My heroes are 3. First, my father, Second, Brian Thacker, and Third, John Glenn.

No, I do not mean all criticism to the Republicans. However, this is Republican primary time so let the candidates show some spine and talk about issues facing everyone and not just a few they know are not going to vote Republican.

[Guest]

Good to hear from you, Bucco and glad you decided not to leave.

Anyhow, Pres. Obama is NOT my hero. I do admire the man for his achievements. My heroes are 3. First, my father, Second, Brian Thacker, and Third, John Glenn.

No, I do not mean all criticism to the Republicans. However, this is Republican primary time so let the candidates show some spine and talk about issues facing everyone and not just a few they know are not going to vote Republican.

I will ask you this...why did the Democrats not show some spine AND DO SOMETHING about it when they controlled both houses ???????

Not sure what accomplishments our President has had...he calls the disaster of a health bill one...if you do, tell me why...as the goal was to CUT HEALTH CARE COSTS and the bill does not even address that in anyway, and the long range financial impact is not a good one.

But since you called the Republicans for not having spine TO TALK about it, why did the Democrats do NOTHING when the had the chance to DO something about it ? In fact, the man of whom you are so proud of asked them to do that in the budget and they still with all the power did nothing...riddle me that !

And I am back because I read while I was gone, and it seems it is now ok to call elected officials names of any kind as this forum approved of Mahers comments...thus why not..no holds barred.....I can play that game..prefer to be a bit more civil but bring it on.

[Guest]

Why didn't Democrats do anything about farm and crop subsidies? Because they have no spine, either. To legislate against the subsidies would cost them their seat in Congress as no self respecting farmer is going to vote for someone who wants to take money directly from them. Sometimes it is huge amounts of money. As I said, I have farmer relatives who take in over $80K in subsidies each year in addition to their farm profits.

Unfortunately, I think farm and crop subsidies are here to stay and you and I will keep paying for them.

[Guest]

Why didn't Democrats do anything about farm and crop subsidies? Because they have no spine, either. To legislate against the subsidies would cost them their seat in Congress as no self respecting farmer is going to vote for someone who wants to take money directly from them. Sometimes it is huge amounts of money. As I said, I have farmer relatives who take in over $80K in subsidies each year in addition to their farm profits.

Unfortunately, I think farm and crop subsidies are here to stay and you and I will keep paying for them.

Just seems strange that you would come on here and publicly call out a party for not TALKING ABOUT an issue and not criticize or even mention a party who had the opportunity but DID NOTHING about same issue.

Oh well....that is what drives me nuts with politics...party first before anything.

[Guest]

Just seems strange that you would come on here and publicly call out a party for not TALKING ABOUT an issue and not criticize or even mention a party who had the opportunity but DID NOTHING about same issue.

Oh well....that is what drives me nuts with politics...party first before anything.

Exactly, and that's why when I asked the question directly it was ignored. It didn't fit the script.

[Guest]

...Not sure what accomplishments our President has had...He's done some good things and some not so good, or even bad. But ordering the mission which resulted in Osama bin Laden getting a SEAL bullet in his right eye, when his entire general staff recommended against it was a gutsy call by the commander-in-chief. He didn't shoot the bullet, but he pulled the trigger when no one else would.

That one might not be important to a lot of people, but it was to me.

[Guest]

He's done some good things and some not so good, or even bad. But ordering the mission which resulted in Osama bin Laden getting a SEAL bullet in his right eye, when his entire general staff recommended against it was a gutsy call by the commander-in-chief. He didn't shoot the bullet, but he pulled the trigger when no one else would.

That one might not be important to a lot of people, but it was to me.

I've spent some time trying to find corroboration to your story of his "entire general staff" as being opposed to the Bin Laden operation and Obama's heroic decision to "strap on his six gun" and take Bin Laden out.

I've found reports that tell a completely different story, but none to support yours.

I can't find your version of this story. Maybe you can post it.

Osama Bin Laden dead: Obama took 16 hours to make up his mind | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1383010/Osama-Bin-Laden-dead-Obama-took-16-hours-make-mind.html)

[Guest]

so now your down to giving no credit to Obama for Bin Laden death? How sad.Bucco this is what drives me crazy!

[Guest]

RichieLion, I always heard the same thing. I heard he had to be pressured into it. Since he was playing golf that day I don't know when they found time to twist his arm.

[Guest]

He's done some good things and some not so good, or even bad. But ordering the mission which resulted in Osama bin Laden getting a SEAL bullet in his right eye, when his entire general staff recommended against it was a gutsy call by the commander-in-chief. He didn't shoot the bullet, but he pulled the trigger when no one else would.

That one might not be important to a lot of people, but it was to me.

My comment on "accomplishments" was admittely sarcastic. Folks come on here to defend Obama but they never seem to be able to list all the good things he has done, except in the abstract. I was making a point to the poster that he never tells us what he is so happy about....just do not criticize.

I am aware that there is no PERFECT BAD MAN or PERFECT GOOD MAN although, it appears that the man in the WH is as close as you can get based on posts on here. Of course, he has done some good things.....the problem is when you call him out on anything, you get the same old crap....the abstract thing about being a racist or how bad the Republicans are...never much of a defense at all on the SPECIFIC THING.

If we ever get to the point were folks on here realize that all these men have faults and good traits, make good decisions and bad ones, then perhaps we can talk about issues instead of demonizing or canonizing.

On Bin Laden, I honestly have no read much on this at all...just glad he is gone (I did read recently a piece where he probably was NOT buried at sea as reported and I don't care). If that is the first thing that comes to mind in searching for his accomplishments, then we are in trouble.

[Guest]

so now your down to giving no credit to Obama for Bin Laden death? How sad.Bucco this is what drives me crazy!

He can have some credit. He was the President who gave the "OK", however that happened, and the U.S. Military did what the U.S. Military does, no matter who's president.

To make it appear that ONLY Preseident Obama could have pulled off such an operation is ludicrous and ridiculous.

[Guest]

yes it happened on his watch. It would have happened as already stated no matter who was in the WH...and of course it is a political plum.

btk

[Guest]

No, BTK, the killing of bin Laden would not necessarily have happened no matter who was in the White House. After all, Junior was in the White House from 2001 until 2008 and it did not happen in that time period. Both President Obama and Junior were commander in chief of the same military and yet it was NOT under Junior's administration that the Al-Quada leader was finally hunted down and killed. Put two and two together and it looks like there needed to be someone who was more competent than Junior as commander in chief.

[Guest]

OK since you have this ever present need to justify whatever we are talking about by CONTINUALLY referring to Bush....here is what we know for sure:

it did not happen while Bush was in office.

it did happen while Obama was in office.

It amounts to nothing more than those two simple statements.
The actions taken were a function of the intel available, the decision to go without alerting the Packistani. And all this happened on Obama's watch or anybody who would have been in the WH.

Do you think it is normal practice, during a super secret military strike to have photographers in the room with Obama and his team? Is it a task accomplished to be proud ofin undertaking and success? Absolutely.

Was it appropriate for all the post incident publicity to show all the so called dramatic moments during the mission....in the conference room that is?
Was it appropriate for Obama to announce that...I....as commander in chief....gave the order to kill OBL. Any, I mean ANY other executive would have employed terminology to the fact that he wanted to announce that "WE" have located and killed OBL. Obama's need to puff up and use I instead of we and his constant remarking about who is POTUS or CIC is just a little non leader, amateur positioning to get the credit.

Obama and his supporters don't know how to make the action speak for itself.

We look forward to a dissertation some day of your support for your candidate without having to go back in time for comparison or justification or maybe it is as simple as gratification. Perhaps the following is not allowed to do that....why else would it ALWAYS be so prevalent in responses?

btk

[Guest]

BTK. remember the email that went around comparing the speeches made by Bush and Obama? After Saddam was captured Bush's speech was giving praise to the military. Obama's speech, after bin Laden was killed was I, I, I.
Of course if Clinton had taken out Bin Laden, when he had several chances, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[Guest]

Address the concerns here that negatively affect our lives financially and impinge on our democratic freedoms.

Forget names organizations and focus on the fact that unnecessary subsidies are being handed out in the name of "future votes"

Focus on the fact that these subsidies continue year after year because our politicians won't call each other out as they are all participating in this same unsavory practice.

Focus on those rare times that subsidies are benefical to the country such as subsidies incubator companies on a limited basis

Focus on the qualifications of the people who will confirm those rare subsidies and the manner, controls, limitations and goals that must be met before such subsidies are released and/or continue and the time and method of the review process.

The problem with Americans today is that they don't know how to "get to the store"....Remember when your Mom gave you a dollar and said go directly to the store buy some bread and come directly home.......don't wander around....don't stop to play baseball with your friends...stay on task/mission.

[Guest]

Address the concerns here that negatively affect our lives financially and impinge on our democratic freedoms.

Forget names organizations and focus on the fact that unnecessary subsidies are being handed out in the name of "future votes"

Focus on the fact that these subsidies continue year after year because our politicians won't call each other out as they are all participating in this same unsavory practice.

Focus on those rare times that subsidies are benefical to the country such as subsidies incubator companies on a limited basis

Focus on the qualifications of the people who will confirm those rare subsidies and the manner, controls, limitations and goals that must be met before such subsidies are released and/or continue and the time and method of the review process.

The problem with Americans today is that they don't know how to "get to the store"....Remember when your Mom gave you a dollar and said go directly to the store buy some bread and come directly home.......don't wander around....don't stop to play baseball with your friends...stay on task/mission.

Good post RUBICON and right on target !!!

Let me add my pet peeve...don't allow the media to steer you

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Bucco; Let me add my pet peeve...don't allow the media to steer you[/QUOTE]

Bucco where have all the truly ethical and professional journalists gone. Our democratic way of life cannot be sustained if our media act like they are writing as if they live in a banna republic. Their ink is democracy lifeblood