Voter ID Card

[Guest]

Yes, we need a valid way to verify voting eligibility.

But the Conservative approach seems more of a way to discourage minorities and the elderly from voting rather than verifying eligibility.

Perry blocks veterans from voting.

and Look at this article on Newt:
Newt Gingrich and the National ID card | RedState (http://www.redstate.com/wbf/2011/12/13/newt-gingrich-and-the-national-id-card/)

So, what do the conservatives really want to accomplish???

Block segments of the population

OR

Verify eligibility of all voters.

[Guest]

So, what do the conservatives really want to accomplish???

Block segments of the population

OR

Verify eligibility of all voters.

Yes, I would guess that they want to block certain segments of the population from voting. From what I've been able to glean from several sources, they ONLY want to stop people that don't look like them, don't think like them, aren't as well off as they are and those that have a "D" on their voter registration card. They also don't want to take a chance that older citizens may not vote as they would like. To many of the "Rs", women in general are not capable of making decisions of this importance and certainly not decisions regarding their own body. There doesn't appear to be a problem of significance with voter abuse. Pennsylvania in 13 years has come up with only 12 instances involving voter improprieties. Alabama and Mississippi has fewer than that. I just think that if they just keep about 25% of the voters away from the voting locations they just may have a chance. It's pretty obvious that the states with "Rs" in the Governor's offices are making an organized effort to steal an election.

Xavier

[Guest]

Not really up to speed with any of this...will make it my reading later today.

HOWEVER....as I understand it...

We need photo id to fly
We need photo id to drive
We need photo id to cash a check, etc/. etc

Why not a photo id to vote ???

[Guest]

Not really up to speed with any of this...will make it my reading later today.

HOWEVER....as I understand it...

We need photo id to fly
We need photo id to drive
We need photo id to cash a check, etc/. etc

Why not a photo id to vote ???

I agree. It is imperative that only qualified voters get in on the action.

It has been an issue for years, so if you have not gotten one by this time, then maybe, just maybe you are not worthy of the honor of voting for the officials that will make laws for us all.

I caution that it must be an easy process to get the ID, but get one you must or do not show up to vote.

[Guest]

Not really up to speed with any of this...will make it my reading later today.

HOWEVER....as I understand it...

We need photo id to fly
We need photo id to drive
We need photo id to cash a check, etc/. etc

Why not a photo id to vote ???

Flying, driving and cashing a check are not constitutional rights. Voting is.

[Guest]

Flying, driving and cashing a check are not constitutional rights. Voting is.

Just playing the devils advocate, would it be UN-constitutional to require verification of status prior to voting?

It concerns me to think of non qualified votes changing our laws.

[Guest]

You can't get through the checkout at Walmart without a photo ID, you can't buy booze without a photo ID, you can't buy tobacco without a photo ID, you can't buy a gun and on and on and on.......... You can't do these things without one but you can pick the leader of the free world because it is just too hard to get one, BS!!

This is not about the poor little minorities that can't get a photo ID. They have been offered it FREE! Brought to them, mailed to them.

This is just another chance for the left to paint the right as racist.

So if you get stopped by a cop do you not need a photo ID? I know that 19% of the hispanic population in my state of Texas does not WALK!

This comes up every election year and every year the dems scream discrimination!!!!!

Just like drilling for oil will take ten years to see any improvement so they kick the can down the road. How many "10 years" have gone by since they have used that argument?

And just like oil, don't stop and fix this problem, just kick the can down the road so the argument is there for the next election cycle.

[Guest]

According to the article in Monday's Daily Sun:

NAACP to challenge voting laws before UN

"Taking a page from its past, the NAACP will go before a United Nations panel in Switzerland this week to argue that new voting laws approved by some U.S. states violate civil and human right be suppressing the votes of minorities and others.

A delegation from the venerable civil rights organization will present its case in Geneva on Wednesday before the United Nations Human Rights Council, a body that normally addresses trouble in places such as Libya, Syria and the Ivory Coast.

"The NAACP can appeal to whatever body it chooses to - the U.N. doesn't run our elections," said Catherine Englebrecht, president of True the Vote, a tea party-founded anti-voter fraud group that's seeking to mobilize thousands of volunteers to work as poll watchers and to validate existing voter-registration lists. "It has been talked to death whether or not (requiring) ID disenfranchises anyone."

What is wrong with having someone validate existing lists and looking out for fraud....I think it's a great idea and you would think that all Americans would feel the same....unless they are, perhaps, hiding something?

[Guest]

Flying, driving and cashing a check are not constitutional rights. Voting is.

a somewhat dated article - but a good explanation of you constitutional right to vote according to a couple of supreme court decisions:

Beyond the Voting Rights Act: (http://reclaimdemocracy.org/political_reform/right_to_vote.html)

"...In its 2000 ruling, Alexander v Mineta, the Court decided the 600,000 or so (mostly black) residents of Washington D.C. have no legal recourse for their complete lack of voting representation in Congress (they have one “representative” in the House who can speak, but cannot vote). The Court affirmed the district court's interpretation that our Constitution "does not protect the right of all citizens to vote, but rather the right of all qualified citizens to vote.” And it's state legislatures that wield the power to decide who is “qualified.”

As a result, voting is not a right, but a privilege granted or withheld at the discretion of local and state governments..."

have there been any decisions to overturn those mentioned in the 2005 article?

[Guest]

According to the article in Monday's Daily Sun:

NAACP to challenge voting laws before UN

"Taking a page from its past, the NAACP will go before a United Nations panel in Switzerland this week to argue that new voting laws approved by some U.S. states violate civil and human right be suppressing the votes of minorities and others.

A delegation from the venerable civil rights organization will present its case in Geneva on Wednesday before the United Nations Human Rights Council, a body that normally addresses trouble in places such as Libya, Syria and the Ivory Coast.

"The NAACP can appeal to whatever body it chooses to - the U.N. doesn't run our elections," said Catherine Englebrecht, president of True the Vote, a tea party-founded anti-voter fraud group that's seeking to mobilize thousands of volunteers to work as poll watchers and to validate existing voter-registration lists. "It has been talked to death whether or not (requiring) ID disenfranchises anyone."

What is wrong with having someone validate existing lists and looking out for fraud....I think it's a great idea and you would think that all Americans would feel the same....unless they are, perhaps, hiding something?

Every word and every thought that an individual writes, says or thinks provides a crystal clear picture of their soul.

Xavier

[Guest]

"...In its 2000 ruling, Alexander v Mineta, the Court decided the 600,000 or so (mostly black) residents of Washington D.C. have no legal recourse for their complete lack of voting representation in Congress (they have one “representative” in the House who can speak, but cannot vote). The Court affirmed the district court's interpretation that our Constitution "does not protect the right of all citizens to vote, but rather the right of all qualified citizens to vote.” And it's state legislatures that wield the power to decide who is “qualified.”

A ruling does mean it is right, it just means it is law.

If voting is so darn important to these supposed DISENFRANCHISED people. why can't they spend just a few minutes to get an ID. This argument is so lame it isn't funny. This is about voters for the dems that don't have to be legal and lazyness on the "DISENFRANCHISED".

[Guest]

It's a fine line between validating the identity of a voter and "Your papers, please..."

Personally, I think we could alleviate everyone's fears by making an allowance for a free state ID card of some sort. NH, for example, has the non-driver's ID card - looks like a driver's license but is clearly labeled as only for ID purposes. It allowed my non-driving daughter to vote, buy a bottle of wine, get on an airplane, cash a check - everything you need ID for. (Ok, so sometimes she got more pleasure from showing her U.S. Passport, but I digress)

I can think of one other use of said ID card - helping track down criminals (a bit).. I wouldn't mind eventually being able to find out where the squatters in my wife's house end up as we pursue legal means to get the back rent from them (they'll probably disappear into the woodwork once the eviction is complete). At least it would be something the cops could look up.

[Guest]

It's a fine line between validating the identity of a voter and "Your papers, please..."

Personally, I think we could alleviate everyone's fears by making an allowance for a free state ID card of some sort. NH, for example, has the non-driver's ID card - looks like a driver's license but is clearly labeled as only for ID purposes. It allowed my non-driving daughter to vote, buy a bottle of wine, get on an airplane, cash a check - everything you need ID for. (Ok, so sometimes she got more pleasure from showing her U.S. Passport, but I digress)

I can think of one other use of said ID card - helping track down criminals (a bit).. I wouldn't mind eventually being able to find out where the squatters in my wife's house end up as we pursue legal means to get the back rent from them (they'll probably disappear into the woodwork once the eviction is complete). At least it would be something the cops could look up.

I will not say ALL, but most states offer a photo id for anyone but you have to prove you are who you say you are. It is not difficult....

[Guest]

Flying, driving and cashing a check are not constitutional rights. Voting is.

A constitutional right reserved for who ? Yeah...american citizens !

[Guest]

Are you really concerned that millions of illegal citizens are going to vote in the national election? Balderdash!

[Guest]

Are you really concerned that millions of illegal citizens are going to vote in the national election? Balderdash!


As long as dems can rent buses and have people on call to fill in a few extra ballots, YES!

[Guest]

Every word and every thought that an individual writes, says or thinks provides a crystal clear picture of their soul.

Xavier

I can see that you are, again, infering that I am a racist because I quoted an article with NAACP in it?? Give me a break, please.

Geeze, xavier, can't a person post an article that was printed in our own Daily Sun. Did you comment on the article? No....you commented on what you perceive to be my character.

Answer the question, please....what the heck is wrong with people looking out for fraud?

[Guest]

I can see that you are, again, infering that I am a racist because I quoted an article with NAACP in it?? Give me a break, please.

Geeze, xavier, can't a person post an article that was printed in our own Daily Sun. Did you comment on the article? No....you commented on what you perceive to be my character.

Answer the question, please....what the heck is wrong with people looking out for fraud?

Nothing, as long as there is fraud. In Florida, voter fraud is rarer than shark attacks.



In Florida, voter fraud is rarer than shark attacks - Tampa Bay Times (http://www.tampabay.com/news/in-florida-voter-fraud-is-rarer-than-shark-attacks/1219292)

[Guest]

Are you really concerned that millions of illegal citizens are going to vote in the national election? Balderdash!

Absolutely without a doubt...millions, no...not sure where you came up with that number, but the point to me is.....why would anyone be against a voter needing to show their photo id before voting ?

[Guest]

Nothing, as long as there is fraud. In Florida, voter fraud is rarer than shark attacks.



In Florida, voter fraud is rarer than shark attacks - Tampa Bay Times (http://www.tampabay.com/news/in-florida-voter-fraud-is-rarer-than-shark-attacks/1219292)

The thread is about Arizona, but you cite an article on Florida so not sure of what point you are making ????

From my point of view...I dont care the percentages......I want all citizens be allowed to vote....if you dont want any id's, then let us stop registration and simply take your word for it when you show up at the polls.

[Guest]

One would have to be very very naive to believe that voter fraud does not exist in America. But IMHO these naivetes are more fox than naive.

The Department of Justice approved a voter ID requirement for Georgia in 2005. In 2008 Crawford v Marion County Election Board, the Supreme Court ruled that a similar Indiana requirement for photo ID would not impose an undue burden on voters. These states joined 31 other states requiring photo ID's for voting.

Attorney Generals have always played politics but none has carried it to the art form of Eric Holder, whom along with Obama, Assistant AG Perez, NAACP and the ACLU prevented Texas from enacting such requirement even though Texas agreed to issue such photos ID's free of charge.

Apparently free contraceptives are more important of a priority than free photo ID cards ensuring a fair and clean result Hmmmmmmmmm

A requirement for voting is that a person has to be of legal age and a citizen.
So how does one determine that without a photo ID? And how does one know if the person voting is not using the name of a person now deceased, their dog's name ,etc.

IMHO enforcing a photo ID is essential to protection of our democracy unless of course you don't mind foreigners deciding who your elected officials will be.
Or perhaps we could go to Plan B and require each voter to stick their finger in ink so that at least we knew that they didn't vote twice.....perhaps?????

Bottom line make any excuse you want or will ,but isn't it simply better not to guess and eliminate as much as possible the opportunity for fraud.

I opine you decide

[Guest]

a somewhat dated article - but a good explanation of you constitutional right to vote according to a couple of supreme court decisions:

Beyond the Voting Rights Act: (http://reclaimdemocracy.org/political_reform/right_to_vote.html)

"...In its 2000 ruling, Alexander v Mineta, the Court decided the 600,000 or so (mostly black) residents of Washington D.C. have no legal recourse for their complete lack of voting representation in Congress (they have one “representative” in the House who can speak, but cannot vote). The Court affirmed the district court's interpretation that our Constitution "does not protect the right of all citizens to vote, but rather the right of all qualified citizens to vote.” And it's state legislatures that wield the power to decide who is “qualified.”

As a result, voting is not a right, but a privilege granted or withheld at the discretion of local and state governments..."

have there been any decisions to overturn those mentioned in the 2005 article?

Dead people, made up names, pets are not "qualified" and that has nothing to do with minorities.

[Guest]

Voter ID: State Requirements (http://www.ncsl.org/legislatures-elections/elections/voter-id-state-requirements.aspx)


The link below discusses some of the cases involved. It does seem to have a liberal slant to it though when compared with what I have been hearing on Megyn Kelly's show on FOX News while writing this.
http://www.brennancenter.org/content/section/category/voter_id

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws

[Guest]

The thread is about Arizona, but you cite an article on Florida so not sure of what point you are making ????

From my point of view...I dont care the percentages......I want all citizens be allowed to vote....if you dont want any id's, then let us stop registration and simply take your word for it when you show up at the polls.

Don't see any mention of Arizona. The title of the thread is "Voter ID Card". The system we've had in place seems to be working just fine with .00003% voter fraud.

[Guest]

Don't see any mention of Arizona. The title of the thread is "Voter ID Card". The system we've had in place seems to be working just fine with .00003% voter fraud.

Hey, thats your slant on things, thats how you feel. You dont live in a border state for one thing....where fraud can be dangerous....you obviously made an effort to get an id card......not sure why you dont think everyone should ??

Not sure why ANYONE would oppose such a law....what are you doing...protecting the right to vote and what do you ask for that...get an id....tough and terrible thing isnt it ?

[Guest]

Yes, I would guess that they want to block certain segments of the population from voting. From what I've been able to glean from several sources, they ONLY want to stop people that don't look like them, don't think like them, aren't as well off as they are and those that have a "D" on their voter registration card. They also don't want to take a chance that older citizens may not vote as they would like. To many of the "Rs", women in general are not capable of making decisions of this importance and certainly not decisions regarding their own body. There doesn't appear to be a problem of significance with voter abuse. Pennsylvania in 13 years has come up with only 12 instances involving voter improprieties. Alabama and Mississippi has fewer than that. I just think that if they just keep about 25% of the voters away from the voting locations they just may have a chance. It's pretty obvious that the states with "Rs" in the Governor's offices are making an organized effort to steal an election.

Xavier

Xavier hit the nail on the head. The Republicans want to steal elections legally just like they did with Bush vs Gore.

There is no voter fraud going on that has any impact on any election. I am sure if any fraud goes on in the Democrat party that the same amount goes on in the Republican party.

This is just another typical example of trying to block minorities from voting by the Republicans.

[Guest]

Are you really concerned that millions of illegal citizens are going to vote in the national election? Balderdash!

I'm concerned about illegal immigrants (not "citizens" as you said), and all the dead people liberals seem to find to vote for them.

[Guest]

Hey, thats your slant on things, thats how you feel. You dont live in a border state for one thing....where fraud can be dangerous....you obviously made an effort to get an id card......not sure why you dont think everyone should ??

Not sure why ANYONE would oppose such a law....what are you doing...protecting the right to vote and what do you ask for that...get an id....tough and terrible thing isnt it ?

It took me a month and cost me $23.00 to get the documents I needed just to renew my FL driver's license, after having been a FL driver and registered voter for over 12 years. Without access to a computer, this would have been very difficult, and $23.00 is a lot of money to some people including me.

I'm not against voter ID, if states are willing to spend millions of dollars contacting every registered voter and advising them of the changes.

I just saw Rep Sheila Jackson-Lee D-TX being interviewed on TV, and she said that TX averages five voter fraud cases a year.

I don't remember voter fraud being a big issue is 2000, 2004, or 2008. Perhaps you can refresh my memory. And you didn't answer my question on AZ.

[Guest]

Xavier hit the nail on the head. The Republicans want to steal elections legally just like they did with Bush vs Gore.

There is no voter fraud going on that has any impact on any election. I am sure if any fraud goes on in the Democrat party that the same amount goes on in the Republican party.

This is just another typical example of trying to block minorities from voting by the Republicans.

Still with that canard, are you? Tells me all I need to know about liberals. That's why I never believe anything in the liberal media.

[Guest]

Xavier hit the nail on the head. The Republicans want to steal elections legally just like they did with Bush vs Gore.

There is no voter fraud going on that has any impact on any election. I am sure if any fraud goes on in the Democrat party that the same amount goes on in the Republican party.

This is just another typical example of trying to block minorities from voting by the Republicans.

SO, your take on it is, you do not need an photo id if you are different in anyway...otherwise it would be fine...correct me on my interpetation.

Secondly, YOU don't know of any fraud, there fore the must not be any...soooo..in the future, IF anyone thinks there is any, and YOU don't have any, cool it..forget any id's

WHY would anyone object to an id card, ESPECIALLY in these troubled times. Makes no sense to me....if you are a citizen, you can get one...do not think they ask for a financial statement to eliminate poor....never heard of a refusal for in id card based on skin EVER....the statement was made about people who think alike or some other ridiculous thing....dont think if you get an id, they quiz you in anyway.

WHO in the world are you trying to protect and from what...the "stealing elections" is phraseology right out of the Democratic party manual but think about it.....WHAT in the world are you against here...HOW does anyone lose anything....HOW do the poor, etc become whatever you guys think they will become.

The President says you MUST get healthcare even if you dont want it or be punished in some way and that is fine.....yo,,,,when those poor you are so worried about go for that.....what do they present to the health insurance company OR can they just get it on their word.

Nobody has to do anything extreme to get it...it provides security for the country...it costs nothing....it crosses party lines...what is the problem ?

[Guest]

Why require ID's? I don't think anyone would lie, do you? Might as well do away with passports also. Just let everyone in and let them vote.

[Guest]

I keep reading that this photo ID issue is about one party or the other trying to gain advantage over the election process. Isn't that short sighted? Shouldn't the purpose, goal, desire of "we the people" be that we have fair, legal, clean elections with unqualified results?

Why is it so many Americans seem to be missing the forest for the trees these days?????

[Guest]

I just saw Rep Sheila Jackson-Lee D-TX being interviewed on TV, and she said that TX averages five voter fraud cases a year.



Rep Sheila Jackson-Lee D-TX, being one of Texas brightest shining stars "wink-wink", was able to spin the facts like a good politician.

There may only be 5 cases, actually more, but her statement leaves out the fact that there is a lot more than that going on. In reality the state does not prosecute these cases because they are too hard to prove.
I "read" that as they don't want to spend the time and money, or lazy as I see it.
5 cases maybe on the books but far more actually happening. Just one case can include hundreds of votes, so is that one case or hundreds.

She is just being the good Obama follower like she always does.
Why don't you go back and quote some of her other interviews that would make you think twice about using her as an authority on anything.

[Guest]

I'm concerned about illegal immigrants (not "citizens" as you said), and all the dead people liberals seem to find to vote for them.

Ya ll know how I hate to agree with Richie, but voter fraud is wrong and even one non- citizen vote is terrible. Voter verification or bust.

[Guest]

Why is it that Republican's aren't worried about voter disenfranchisement with toughened up voter I.D. regulations?

Is it just that Republican voters are smart enough to acquire these I.D.'s, and Democrats don't have faith in Democrat voters to be able to acquire them?

[Guest]

It took me a month and cost me $23.00 to get the documents I needed just to renew my FL driver's license, after having been a FL driver and registered voter for over 12 years. Without access to a computer, this would have been very difficult, and $23.00 is a lot of money to some people including me.

I'm not against voter ID, if states are willing to spend millions of dollars contacting every registered voter and advising them of the changes.

I just saw Rep Sheila Jackson-Lee D-TX being interviewed on TV, and she said that TX averages five voter fraud cases a year.

I don't remember voter fraud being a big issue is 2000, 2004, or 2008. Perhaps you can refresh my memory. And you didn't answer my question on AZ.

I renewed my license at no cost, and one visit to the DMV office for about an hour, or less ! Got all the information I needed in paper to be frank with you. Sorry you had such terrible problems !

Arizona was mentioned because as I said in my first post and needed to do some reading. When I began, first thing I read was about our Justice dept telling Texas what to do (States rights just don't seem to exist any longer)...and it ran into an article on Arizona. If I confused you, my bad.

Frankly, I could care less HOW MANY CASE have been reported because ONE case ticks me off since there should be no reason for voter fraud OR intimidation.

On Sheila Jackson, I will make no comment as whatever I say about her you will not like.

This to me is a no-brainer.....this country has just gone down the drain. I am for protecting our liberties and not cheapening our country any more than it is already been cheapened.

[Guest]

Couldn't agree with you more. Sort of like living in The Villages. They tell you "Don't worry, be happy", and the next thing you know your house is sitting 20 feet down in a sinkhole and your dog has been eaten by a coyote.

[Guest]

Why is it that Republican's aren't worried about voter disenfranchisement with toughened up voter I.D. regulations?

Is it just that Republican voters are smart enough to acquire these I.D.'s, and Democrats don't have faith in Democrat voters to be able to acquire them?

i agree...the voter reg/photo i.d. door swings both ways...and beyond that - why would any honest person not want or would mind having a photo i.d.?

[Guest]

i agree...the voter reg/photo i.d. door swings both ways...and beyond that - why would any honest person not want or would mind having a photo i.d.?

It is a really crazy argument. You need to show the proper I.D. for so many things.

The only reason I can see to try to block the checking of I.D.'s in the voting process would be for the purposes of facilitating fraud.

What other reason can there be?

[Guest]

Only five voter fraud cases a year? Ok.

And there are only a few perjury cases per year - and we KNOW that nobody lies on the stand (I always wondered why a convicted murderer wouldn't be later charged with perjury if he, say, lied about an alibi or something that was later proven false).

[Guest]

15 years ago, when my mother was 73 years of age, she went to the courthouse and got a photo ID, just so she could vote! If she could do it, others can as well - don't fool yourself.

To me, this smells of voter fraud and political manipulation.

[Guest]

15 years ago, when my mother was 73 years of age, she went to the courthouse and got a photo ID, just so she could vote! If she could do it, others can as well - don't fool yourself.

To me, this smells of voter fraud and political manipulation.

True, but I think some folks are too lazy to bother, and if that is the case, I don't want them voting

[Guest]

15 years ago, when my mother was 73 years of age, she went to the courthouse and got a photo ID, just so she could vote! If she could do it, others can as well - don't fool yourself.

To me, this smells of voter fraud and political manipulation.

15 years ago, 9-11 hadn't happened yet. It's a little more complicated now. A friend's birth certificate had the first and middle name switched. It was never a problem until after 9-11 and that person decided to get a Florida Drivers License. Long story shortened, it took nearly a year of trying to rectify the problem even though this person had titles, deeds, licenses, degrees, etc. with their name in the correct order. The solution was to petition the court for a name change. Nearly $500 was the cost.

However, perhaps those who are trying to change all of the requirements just before a National Election would like to facilitate removing some of the hurtles to the acquisition of an ID. Convenient locations, associates to assist them, transportation if that is a hindrance, etc.

Since, according to many, this has been a problem for decades (I don't personally see the problem), better yet, forget all that stuff, maybe a two to four year lead-time could be written into the laws - effective in November of 2014, 2015 or 2016. This would require compromise and working together. What's the hurry, do it right. I'm sure all reasonable citizens would find that a perfect solution. After all, everyone is concerned about voter fraud, aren't we? We all want eligible people to vote, don't we? Or does this make too much sense?

Xavier

[Guest]

15 years ago, 9-11 hadn't happened yet. It's a little more complicated now. A friend's birth certificate had the first and middle name switched. It was never a problem until after 9-11 and that person decided to get a Florida Drivers License. Long story shortened, it took nearly a year of trying to rectify the problem even though this person had titles, deeds, licenses, degrees, etc. with their name in the correct order. The solution was to petition the court for a name change. Nearly $500 was the cost.

However, perhaps those who are trying to change all of the requirements just before a National Election would like to facilitate removing some of the hurtles to the acquisition of an ID. Convenient locations, associates to assist them, transportation if that is a hindrance, etc.

Since, according to many, this has been a problem for decades (I don't personally see the problem), better yet, forget all that stuff, maybe a two to four year lead-time could be written into the laws - effective in November of 2014, 2015 or 2016. This would require compromise and working together. What's the hurry, do it right. I'm sure all reasonable citizens would find that a perfect solution. After all, everyone is concerned about voter fraud, aren't we? We all want eligible people to vote, don't we? Or does this make too much sense?

Xavier

Xavier: in all due respect how many of those confusing circumstances that you cite exist except on occassion for those legimate citizens. As to "what's the hurry", the fact is this issue has been going on for a long long time.

I am always curious as to why some folks seem not to be in a hurry to ensure we have a fair, clean legal and observable voting process?

Please the Democrats have a very poor and transparent argument. As a citizen of these united States I am not interested in have foreigners sselect my leaders.

[Guest]

15 years ago, 9-11 hadn't happened yet. It's a little more complicated now. A friend's birth certificate had the first and middle name switched. It was never a problem until after 9-11 and that person decided to get a Florida Drivers License. Long story shortened, it took nearly a year of trying to rectify the problem even though this person had titles, deeds, licenses, degrees, etc. with their name in the correct order. The solution was to petition the court for a name change. Nearly $500 was the cost.

However, perhaps those who are trying to change all of the requirements just before a National Election would like to facilitate removing some of the hurtles to the acquisition of an ID. Convenient locations, associates to assist them, transportation if that is a hindrance, etc.

Since, according to many, this has been a problem for decades (I don't personally see the problem), better yet, forget all that stuff, maybe a two to four year lead-time could be written into the laws - effective in November of 2014, 2015 or 2016. This would require compromise and working together. What's the hurry, do it right. I'm sure all reasonable citizens would find that a perfect solution. After all, everyone is concerned about voter fraud, aren't we? We all want eligible people to vote, don't we? Or does this make too much sense?

Xavier

Thanks for a thoughtful response.

First, I think this thread was the result of the FEDERAL government telling a STATE government not to require it, HOWEVER, your post sent me to do some research.

According to Wikipedia, the first law passed relative to this was in 2003 and there are now 30 states that have it. The Obama administration has blocked these STATE laws in 2 states....Texas most recently and before that South Carolina. It was done under the civil rights law...citing that in Texas "the state had failed to meet its requirement, under the Voting Rights Act, to show that the measure would not disproportionately disenfranchise registered minority voters."

Further "“Even using the data most favorable to the state, Hispanics disproportionately lack either a driver’s license or a personal identification card,” Mr. Perez wrote, “and that disparity is statistically significant.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/13/us/justice-dept-blocks-texas-photo-id-law.html

It seems the Voters Rights Act..."jurisdictions that have a history of suppressing minority voting — like Texas — must show that any proposed change to voting rules would not have a disproportionate effect on minority voters, even if there is no evidence of discriminatory intent. "

Texas offered to give FREE ID cards, but the FEDERAL government ruled that was not enough. The government did NOT step in with the other 30 states..only these two and they get to make the call on whether you have the alleged past.

These actions are at the top of the NAACP and other organizations, so this is a bit more than simply what we are discussing here. It seems to me to simply add to the class and race warfare that exists today.

[Guest]

Xavier: in all due respect how many of those confusing circumstances that you cite exist except on occassion for those legimate citizens.

That could be true, but I really don't think anyone has documented the frequency of these circumstances. There are, however, legitimate figures for the documented cases of voting improprieties and I would dare bet they are smaller than the ones that deal with complications in getting an ID. The numbers are, in my view, remarkably low. It really doesn't matter. If we could agree that we want to ensure that all citizens are provided the opportunity to exercise their right to vote and not disenfranchise legitimate voters then we should be able to give them a reasonable amount of time in which to secure an acceptable ID. We will have solved the problem. Do you remember when the rules from traveling outside of our country were changed and there was an instant backlog of applications for passports. In some areas it was as long as 6 months. That was with only the travelers making applications. The drop-dead date for the new law had to be broken down into smaller implementation sections and had to be extended to a date that was much further down the road.

Have you ever seen a job vacancy notification put out to the public and then you notice that the application deadline is three days out. You automatically know that the job is fashioned for a particular individual known to the person doing the hiring. If the goal is to keep a certain demographic from voting, you give them an unrealistic deadline. If this has been a problem for decades, why have a short deadline? My Dad taught me that if you are going to do a job, do it right.

Xavier

[Guest]

Xavier hit the nail on the head. The Republicans want to steal elections legally just like they did with Bush vs Gore.

There is no voter fraud going on that has any impact on any election. I am sure if any fraud goes on in the Democrat party that the same amount goes on in the Republican party.

This is just another typical example of trying to block minorities from voting by the Republicans.

Buggy - You repeating the lie that Bush stole the election from Gore does not make it true even though it has been said by millions of D's. The facts are clear. EVERY major newspaper in Florida investigated the situation in depth and EVERY one concluded that Bush had won the race. What was true is that Gore tried to have thousands of military absentee ballots thrown out.

Voter fraud takes a number of forms:

People voting in two states. A practice among people who have two residences, particularly common among college students in caucuses. Also engaged in by snowbirds who feel that have the right since they pay taxes in two different states.

Voting 'early and often', the long held mantra of the D political machines. Easy to do when no id is required.

Voting when ineligible to do so, underage, prior felony conviction, etc.

Absentee voting by residents of nursing homes - staff sends in for absentee ballots and fill them out with the residents having no idea that they 'voted'.

Anyone who looks objectively at what is happening can never buy into the idea that voter fraud is a 'minor' problem.

[Guest]

Buggy - You repeating the lie that Bush stole the election from Gore does not make it true even though it has been said by millions of D's. The facts are clear. EVERY major newspaper in Florida investigated the situation in depth and EVERY one concluded that Bush had won the race. What was true is that Gore tried to have thousands of military absentee ballots thrown out.

Voter fraud takes a number of forms:

People voting in two states. A practice among people who have two residences, particularly common among college students in caucuses. Also engaged in by snowbirds who feel that have the right since they pay taxes in two different states.

Voting 'early and often', the long held mantra of the D political machines. Easy to do when no id is required.

Voting when ineligible to do so, underage, prior felony conviction, etc.

Absentee voting by residents of nursing homes - staff sends in for absentee ballots and fill them out with the residents having no idea that they 'voted'.

Anyone who looks objectively at what is happening can never buy into the idea that voter fraud is a 'minor' problem.

Obviously, these tactics you mention are only practiced by Democrats. Sounds to me it would be more of a Republican thing to do.

When I was an election judge in local, state, and Federal elections, we did not (could not) ask for ID. The voters had to state their address and date of birth as it appeared on the voter rolls. If not on the voter rolls, they did not get to vote.

[Guest]

Obviously, these tactics you mention are only practiced by Democrats. Sounds to me it would be more of a Republican thing to do.

When I was an election judge in local, state, and Federal elections, we did not (could not) ask for ID. The voters had to state their address and date of birth as it appeared on the voter rolls. If not on the voter rolls, they did not get to vote.

Good plan Buggy; the Democrats (Chicago comes to mind) have lots of the dead on voter rolls and people to just say "that's me". It's an easy way to fraud.

The I.D. is a great idea to eliminate fraud. The only reason to fight it is for nefarious purposes. "Can't cash a check, but I can vote"; yeah, great plan.

[Guest]

For all that 'advocates' say against a voter ID plan (*any* plan), they're sure to keep the 'consequences' vague. In other words the dialogue goes like this:

Pro: "Voter ID will cut down on voter fraud!"

Con: "It's discriminatory - it'll disenfranchise!"

Pro: "Well, everyone has to have ID to cash checks, etc. - but we can make sure an ID card is available to everyone."

Con: "But it's bad! It's a war against the poor!"

Pro: "How so?"

Con: "It's just bad!"

[Guest]

Show me a person who does not have a photo ID and I will show you a:

minor child

wanted criminal

illegal alien

And any number of things that I'm sure you could add to the list.

You have to have a photo ID to buy cigarettes, Sudafed cough medicine, to collect welfare, to get medical treatment, to cash your check, to rent a car, to get on an airplane.

There is absolutely no reason not to require a photo ID to prove that you are who you say you are when you go to vote.

I cannot see any reason what so ever to be against the photo ID. If it does inhibit someone from voting it will in all probability be because of all the reasons I stated above or perhaps something you can add to the list.

The present administration wants to get as many votes as they can and they do not care from whence they come, as long as they get them.

Just the opinion

[Guest]

Show me a person who does not have a photo ID and I will show you a:

minor child

wanted criminal

illegal alien

And any number of things that I'm sure you could add to the list.

You have to have a photo ID to buy cigarettes, Sudafed cough medicine, to collect welfare, to get medical treatment, to cash your check, to rent a car, to get on an airplane.

There is absolutely no reason not to require a photo ID to prove that you are who you say you are when you go to vote.

I cannot see any reason what so ever to be against the photo ID. If it does inhibit someone from voting it will in all probability be because of all the reasons I stated above or perhaps something you can add to the list.

The present administration wants to get as many votes as they can and they do not care from whence they come, as long as they get them.

Just the opinion

And a very sound opinion, at that.

[Guest]

just do it like the days of old....pass a law or make a rule and then enforce it. Those who do not comply please follow the signs to the exit.

And cut all the BS of why it favors one party or another or one class or another.

The permissive pacifism and bending over for minority and special interest groups is nothing more than politicians FAVORING a given voting block....nothing more.

Same lowering of the bar and looking the other way to get votes created illegal immigration...political pandering and subsequent lack of enforcement.

All the above = the watering down of America.

btk

[Guest]

just do it like the days of old....pass a law or make a rule and then enforce it. Those who do not comply please follow the signs to the exit.

And cut all the BS of why it favors one party or another or one class or another.

The permissive pacifism and bending over for minority and special interest groups is nothing more than politicians FAVORING a given voting block....nothing more.

Same lowering of the bar and looking the other way to get votes created illegal immigration...political pandering and subsequent lack of enforcement.

All the above = the watering down of America.

btk

Agree 100%.