In My Opinion

[Guest]

I see many interpretations of both the BIBLE and the CONSTITUTION in this Forum.

I feel that the Conservatives that post on here the most follow the Old Testament and the Liberal follow closely to the New Testament of the King James Version. Now, don't explode, it just my observation.

I feel that the Liberals on here interpret the Constitution with all its modifications and still see room for more changes to modernize it. When I read posts by conservatives, it is as if they are in the room when the document was first formed and signed as the original document by the 200 YEAR AGO authors.

Not that either is wrong, but my question is:

SHOULD WE GO BACK TO THE OLD TESTAMENT AND THE ORIGINAL VERSION OF THE CONSTITUTION?

OR SHOULD CONTINUE TO MODIFY THEM TO FIT THE CHRISTIANS AND AMERICANS OF TODAY?

I think we need to do what is best for all American and stop picking and choosing what is best for our own selfish desires rather conservative or liberal.

[Guest]

The Old Testament was given by GOD to show our need for forgiveness and mercy. It is full of laws and rules which show us that we can never be perfect by our own efforts. It is also the prophesy that GOD will come and live in human flesh and pay the ransom for our lives, by bringing eternal forgiveness and mercy to all who are interested in getting out from under the penalty of not complying with the laws that can never be kept by humans. The New Testament is the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophesy. By accepting these truths, we can receive the eternal forgiveness and mercy and experience ETERNAL JOY and SECURITY! This New Testament freedom is not a license to sin. Instead it is such a miracle of freedom that those who experience it just cannot help themselves but to share it with others. When a "conservative christian" points out sin, it is in the same manner that a friend points out to another that a car is about to hit them, or save them from a house on fire, etc. There is ALWAYS FORGIVENESS, MERCY, JOY, SECURITY, AND ULTIMATE FREEDOM!...Anyone who thinks otherwise, is just not listening.

For example-Everyone on this forum knows that I speak out against abortion. The reason is that murder is wrong. For this murder to continue to be "legal", it takes people to stand back and do nothing! However, I have NEVER spoke condemnation to ANYONE who supports abortion or been party to it. As a Christian, I follow both the Old and the New Testaments...Why not? It is the complete book! I am a Christian, but that doesn't make me perfect, and it doesn't give me permission to sin nor does it prevent me from sinning.

200 years ago, men in a room signed a document that has served to make this country the most prosperous and benevolent country in the history of mankind. If that document has kept the place running that well, why not continue to use it as it was intended to be used?

[Guest]

The Old Testament was given by GOD to show our need for forgiveness and mercy. It is full of laws and rules which show us that we can never be perfect by our own efforts. It is also the prophesy that GOD will come and live in human flesh and pay the ransom for our lives, by bringing eternal forgiveness and mercy to all who are interested in getting out from under the laws that can never be kept by humans. The New Testament is the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophesy. By accepting these truths, we can receive the eternal forgiveness and mercy and experience ETERNAL JOY and SECURITY! This New Testament freedom is not a license to sin. Instead it is such a miracle of freedom that those who experience it just cannot help themselves but to share it with others. When a "conservative christian" points out sin, it is in the same manner that a friend points out to another that a car is about to hit them, or save them from a house on fire, etc. There is ALWAYS FORGIVENESS, MERCY, JOY, SECURITY, AND ULTIMATE FREEDOM!...Anyone who thinks otherwise, is just not listening.

For example-Everyone on this forum knows that I speak out against abortion. The reason is that murder is wrong. For this murder to continue to be "legal", it takes people to stand back and do nothing! However, I have NEVER spoke condemnation to ANYONE who supports abortion or been party to it. As a Christian, I follow both the Old and the New Testaments...Why not? It is the complete book!

What you say here is neither conservative nor liberal, just Christian. You support my point that the Old Testament was modified by the New Testament to better fit the times and the followers.

Now, I pray there is at least one Constitutionalist that will admit that we have modified the constitution for the good of all Americans and accept the fact that there will be more modifications. Again, my point on this forum is that several want to pick and choose what should or should not have been modified.

I do not believe FREEDOM of Speech gave Bill or Rush either one the right to be slanderous. That is not what was intended by the authors in my opinion. In those days it was common to kill a man for slandering you or yours.

I do not believe the authors intended for every over zealous citizen to carry a machine gun in his coat when they talked about the right to bear arms.

I do; however, believe that 200 years ago women were not meant to ever have the right to vote, but we allow that today.

I am just asking that we all be reasonable and be open to change when needed.

[Guest]

What you say here is neither conservative nor liberal, just Christian. You support my point that the Old Testament was modified by the New Testament to better fit the times and the followers.

Now, I pray there is at least one Constitutionalist that will admit that we have modified the constitution for the good of all Americans and accept the fact that there will be more modifications. Again, my point on this forum is that several want to pick and choose what should or should not have been modified.

I do not believe FREEDOM of Speech gave Bill or Rush either one the right to be slanderous. That is not what was intended by the authors in my opinion. In those days it was common to kill a man for slandering you or yours.

I do not believe the authors intended for every over zealous citizen to carry a machine gun in his coat when they talked about the right to bear arms.

I do; however, believe that 200 years ago women were not meant to ever have the right to vote, but we allow that today.

I am just asking that we all be reasonable and be open to change when needed.

Just what parts of the Constitution would you like to take out?

Which amendment or what other amendment would you like to see added?

[Guest]

Just what parts of the Constitution would you like to take out?

Which amendment or what other amendment would you like to see added?

None that I can think of at all. I just ask that anything done in the way of amendment is done for the people and not a religious group or any specific group for that matter.

[Guest]

I personally do not believe most Americans measure by R or D or conservative or liberal. To do so is nothing more than convenience compartmentalizing those who need it to be seen that way.

It is very limiting and does not represent the needs of every day life in America.

It breeds the need for a win or a loss and the competitive bashing of the non favored compartment.

Very stifling to creativity and reality.

btk

[Guest]

What you say here is neither conservative nor liberal, just Christian. You support my point that the Old Testament was modified by the New Testament to better fit the times and the followers.
Now, I pray there is at least one Constitutionalist that will admit that we have modified the constitution for the good of all Americans and accept the fact that there will be more modifications. Again, my point on this forum is that several want to pick and choose what should or should not have been modified.

I do not believe FREEDOM of Speech gave Bill or Rush either one the right to be slanderous. That is not what was intended by the authors in my opinion. In those days it was common to kill a man for slandering you or yours.

I do not believe the authors intended for every over zealous citizen to carry a machine gun in his coat when they talked about the right to bear arms.

I do; however, believe that 200 years ago women were not meant to ever have the right to vote, but we allow that today.

I am just asking that we all be reasonable and be open to change when needed.

Support you? ABSOLUTELY NOT...The Old Testament can not and never will be modified, nor did I imply that it was. As the WORD of GOD, it can never be changed or modified. Same goes for the New Testament. The New Testament was the FULLFILMENT of the Old Testament. The LAW of the Old Testament stands as the standard by which we will ALL be judged...The only way out, in order to stand perfect before our heavenly Father, is to be covered by the Blood of the Lamb, His Son, Jesus.

[Guest]

Support you? ABSOLUTELY NOT...The Old Testament can not and never will be modified, nor did I imply that it was. As the WORD of GOD, it can never be changed or modified. Same goes for the New Testament. The New Testament was the FULLFILMENT of the Old Testament. The LAW of the Old Testament stands as the standard by which we will ALL be judged...The only way out, in order to stand perfect before our heavenly Father, is to be covered by the Blood of the Lamb, His Son, Jesus.

So you think that those of us with a Jewish background never get to heaven. Really!!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

So you think that those of us with a Jewish background never get to heaven. Really!!!!!!!!!

Unless I'm mistaken, Jews don't have a vision of heaven as Christians do. The Jewish religion focuses on life on earth and leaves the idea of an afterlife open, although they do believe life goes on in some capacity.

Anyway, I don't think it's good form to challenge another's religious beliefs and it is a Christian belief that the entrance to heaven is paved with the belief of Christ as your savior.

Stating your view of what the afterlife means to you would be a better way to go, and it might promote some great discussion.

[Guest]

unless i'm mistaken, jews don't have a vision of heaven as christians do. The jewish religion focuses on life on earth and leaves the idea of an afterlife open, although they do believe life goes on in some capacity.

Anyway, i don't think it's good form to challenge another's religious beliefs and it is a christian belief that the entrance to heaven is paved with the belief of christ as your savior.

Stating your view of what the afterlife means to you would be a better way to go, and it might promote some great discussion.

omg

[Guest]

So you think that those of us with a Jewish background never get to heaven. Really!!!!!!!!!

I know that Christians and Jews both consider the "Old Testament" to be the Holy Book of their religion. I also know that Jews are God's Chosen People, the Apple of His Eye, a Great Nation...as such, I believe that we should pray for the peace of Jerusalem. Not really a good idea to go up against the Jewish people as far as I can tell.

[Guest]

Support you? ABSOLUTELY NOT...The Old Testament can not and never will be modified, nor did I imply that it was. As the WORD of GOD, it can never be changed or modified. Same goes for the New Testament. The New Testament was the FULLFILMENT of the Old Testament. The LAW of the Old Testament stands as the standard by which we will ALL be judged...The only way out, in order to stand perfect before our heavenly Father, is to be covered by the Blood of the Lamb, His Son, Jesus.

I never heard it said that way before. That does put us Christians more in line with the beliefs of Muslims than I had thought. I thought the old testament ways was dropped after Jesus came into the mix. I guess we are all doomed by god to have prejudices against others with different beliefs.

Sorry Figmo, If she is correct, your on your way to hell. Don't hate me because I am a Christian. Maybe we will have a new Jesus or Mohammad come by and change it up again and the Jews will be safe then. Sure is confusing. I will tell ya one thing for sure, If Christianity is the only way and billions of THEIR GOD fearing people are left to suffer for eternity in hell, then GOD is a more evil than the way I understand about Satin.

[Guest]

I know that Christians and Jews both consider the "Old Testament" to be the Holy Book of their religion. I also know that Jews are God's Chosen People, the Apple of His Eye, a Great Nation...as such, I believe that we should pray for the peace of Jerusalem. Not really a good idea to go up against the Jewish people as far as I can tell.

Now wait a minute, you can't have it both ways. Are Christians God's people or are the Jews. I want to be on the winning team. I must ask now if it is too late for me to become a JEW.

[Guest]

Now wait a minute, you can't have it both ways. Are Christians God's people or are the Jews. I want to be on the winning team. I must ask now if it is too late for me to become a JEW.

VKII-You have claimed to be a Christian...what does your religion tell you?

[Guest]

VKII-You have claimed to be a Christian...what does your religion tell you?

I guess I have avoided the only thru Jesus, but that is what I was told all my life. I have been able to convince myself that no merciful God would condemn everyone else when they may actually be confused. I now believe that if you are good, you are OK rather you have blood poured on you or not.

[Guest]

I guess I have avoided the only thru Jesus, but that is what I was told all my life. I have been able to convince myself that no merciful God would condemn everyone else when they may actually be confused. I now believe that if you are good, you are OK rather you have blood poured on you or not.

What is your opinion of what Jesus has to say on the subject?

[Guest]

We're all Jews up to the New Testament . Not sure after that

[Guest]

to get back to the original idea of changing the constitution....the founding fathers wisely made it possible but very difficult to update the constitution...that is why it has been done only 17 times after the original Bill of Rights...the problem is there is a judicial activism which misinterprets the TEXT of the document, conforming or rather deforming it to fit its liberal philosophies....we must adhere to the textual meaning of the constitution as it would have been interpreted at the time it was written...when we don't, that is where the problems begin!

[Guest]

OMG. :22yikes:

??????????OMG.....what???

[Guest]

to get back to the original idea of changing the constitution....the founding fathers wisely made it possible but very difficult to update the constitution...that is why it has been done only 17 times after the original Bill of Rights...the problem is there is a judicial activism which misinterprets the TEXT of the document, conforming or rather deforming it to fit its liberal philosophies....we must adhere to the textual meaning of the constitution as it would have been interpreted at the time it was written...when we don't, that is where the problems begin!

CCC, you hit the nail on the head with this post. The Federal Government took complete control of the states rights with the passage of the 17th Amendment. The Fed Reserver just finished driving the nail home.

As for the Old and New Testament, not one major religion follows the Word of G*d. As far as I am concerned all major religions are nothing more than Cults, one persons idea of what it takes to get into Heaven. Collect the money, have a good time and make empty promises to keep the cash flowing. What a racket.

[Guest]

Chachacha- right on!
Figmo Bohica-
Identity as a Christian, like the Jewish identity,is a body of believers. Not all those who show up at the church or synagog building, are true believers. Just like hanging out in the garage doesn't make you a car. But the Lord has is the
Good Sheperd...He knows His sheep and they know Him!
"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." James 1:27

[Guest]

Chachacha- right on!
Figmo Bohica-
Identity as a Christian, like the Jewish identity,is a body of believers. Not all those who show up at the church or synagog building, are true believers. Just like hanging out in the garage doesn't make you a car. But the Lord has is the
Good Sheperd...He knows His sheep and they know Him!
"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." James 1:27

Your confusing me again. What about taking Jesus as your personal savior or you will go to hell. The Jews believe he was a prophet not a son of god. It bothers me when you pick and chose when and on who you use your religion to condemn others. i.e. LIE So, be proud that you have driven me off the Political site and out of grace with GOD through your hateful non-undertanding of the feelings of others.

The more I read, the more I believe the whole god thing is a book full of lies. And if people like the 6 PAC leader with all his hate is such a Christian, I no longer want to be one. You hateful conservatives can have your fake gods and your ridiculous hero's like palin and sanitarium. I am logging out of political for good. You will find me only with the normal Americans on the other forums. When I speak the truth, the 6 PAC jump on me while using sarcasm and lies to pretend to be righteous and Holly. That kind of Christianity is for losers. You can have it and goodbye.

I would like to meet Buggy One some time. If your up for that, send me a PM.
Richie, I think you are a good person, just caught up in to many conspiracy theories. See some Monday night and we can discuss in person.

[Guest]

The Old Testament can not and never will be modified, nor did I imply that it was. As the WORD of GOD, it can never be changed or modified. Same goes for the New Testament. The New Testament was the FULLFILMENT of the Old Testament.

Actually, the New Testament HAS been edited - all the way back to the Council of Nicea where the heads of the religion got together to decide what did and didn't make it into the Bible as canon. There were several gospels that were rejected.

[Guest]

The subject matter of religion is indeed personal. Christians reference the Bible, Jews the Torah and Muslims the Koran. American Indians make reference to the great spirit and Tibetans Buddha and the Noble Pathways.
What I am trying to convey is that it is in man's nature to believe in something greater than themselves and this is good. For to do anything less is to be selfish and we have seen plenty of that sort of behavior lately. Because of man's humanness they will continue to pick and choose what of the relgious teachings they find suitable to their beliefs. What is of paramount importance is that good always triumph over evil.

As to the Constitution. A baseball batter will never step out of the batters box because he knows his batting averages go down.

I personally believe the framers did an extraordianry job of writing the Constitution, etc. This nations leaders have an avenue if things need to be changed via amendments. However, even then the process is long and challlenging thank God. Remember that old saw "watch what you wish, you just might get it."

[Guest]

Your confusing me again. What about taking Jesus as your personal savior or you will go to hell. The Jews believe he was a prophet not a son of god. It bothers me when you pick and chose when and on who you use your religion to condemn others. i.e. LIE So, be proud that you have driven me off the Political site and out of grace with GOD through your hateful non-undertanding of the feelings of others.
The more I read, the more I believe the whole god thing is a book full of lies. And if people like the 6 PAC leader with all his hate is such a Christian, I no longer want to be one. You hateful conservatives can have your fake gods and your ridiculous hero's like palin and sanitarium. I am logging out of political for good. You will find me only with the normal Americans on the other forums. When I speak the truth, the 6 PAC jump on me while using sarcasm and lies to pretend to be righteous and Holly. That kind of Christianity is for losers. You can have it and goodbye.

I would like to meet Buggy One some time. If your up for that, send me a PM.
Richie, I think you are a good person, just caught up in to many conspiracy theories. See some Monday night and we can discuss in person.

Proud? I am deeply saddened that I cannot be honest with you without you taking offense. Driving you off the forum? Only you can make the choice to leave the forum. I too have taken my share of "hate" and "sarcasm" and had to do some real soul searching about whether to stay or not. What makes me truly sad, is that we have never met personally, that I have never gotten to know who you are away from this forum nor have you gotten to know me away from here. We might both be pleasantly surprised.
I have learned very few things in this life, and one that I know for sure is that people will think what they will of you, despite any and all evidence to the contrary. Similar to how how you describe the most patient and courageous poster on this forum-whom you refer to as the hateful "6 pac leader"....:ohdear:

[Guest]

The Founding Fathers who wrote the US Constitution allowed for amending the Constitution. Amendments have to pass the Congress my a super majority and pass a super majority of the State legislatures in a definded time period. That way anny changes would reflect the view and desire of We the Prople who made the Constitution. It was not to be left to justices of the SCOTUS.

[Guest]

The Founding Fathers who wrote the US Constitution allowed for amending the Constitution. Amendments have to pass the Congress my a super majority and pass a super majority of the State legislatures in a definded time period. That way anny changes would reflect the view and desire of We the Prople who made the Constitution. It was not to be left to justices of the SCOTUS.

Well, things have changed, haven't they?

[Guest]

I really love all these uber-conservatives on this forum who think they are Constitutional Law professors. One of the duties of the Supreme Court is to interpret the Constitution when making decisions. The Constitution of the USA is a living and evolving document. If it were not to be interpreted, it would just be a piece of paper in the National Archives and would be worthless. It is a framework and a frame has to be built on.

I know there are uber-conservatives who do not believe this but they are 100% wrong. I suggest they take a constitutional law class and not from some reactionary but with some educational facility with a sight to the future.

[Guest]

buggy, well we will have to agree to disagree on this one. The Constitution says what it says and is NOT a living document. It can be amended if needed, but that does not change the facts of the basic document.

[Guest]

Support you? ABSOLUTELY NOT...The Old Testament can not and never will be modified, nor did I imply that it was. As the WORD of GOD, it can never be changed or modified. Same goes for the New Testament. The New Testament was the FULLFILMENT of the Old Testament. The LAW of the Old Testament stands as the standard by which we will ALL be judged...The only way out, in order to stand perfect before our heavenly Father, is to be covered by the Blood of the Lamb, His Son, Jesus.

Katz, What we refer to as The Old Testament, The Tanach, has been extensively modified by the Christian Church particularly the Protestant Churches. These modifications extend to the books included, the order of the books and the content. Even the ten commandments have been modified.

If you want to understand some of this, I suggest 'Understanding Judaism - The Basics of Creed and Deed' by Rabbi Benjamin Blech. This book compares and contrasts Jewish and Christian beliefs and the reasons behind them. It is also important to remember that the Tanach (Old Testament) is not a stand-alone document, but rather a part of the Talmud and can only be understood when taken in context.

[Guest]

Katz, What we refer to as The Old Testament, The Tanach, has been extensively modified by the Christian Church particularly the Protestant Churches. These modifications extend to the books included, the order of the books and the content. Even the ten commandments have been modified.

If you want to understand some of this, I suggest 'Understanding Judaism - The Basics of Creed and Deed' by Rabbi Benjamin Blech. This book compares and contrasts Jewish and Christian beliefs and the reasons behind them. It is also important to remember that the Tanach (Old Testament) is not a stand-alone document, but rather a part of the Talmud and can only be understood when taken in context.
WOW! Thanks, I didn't know that! I will definitely get the book! I do have one question for you...I have a Strong's Concordance, which claims to have the original Greek and Hebrew words and meanings for the entire Christian Bible. Have you heard of it or ever checked it out for accuracy?

[Guest]

WOW! Thanks, I didn't know that! I will definitely get the book! I do have one question for you...I have a Strong's Concordance, which claims to have the original Greek and Hebrew words and meanings for the entire Christian Bible. Have you heard of it or ever checked it out for accuracy?

Strong's exhaustive concordance is a cross-reference attempting to more clearly indicate the meanings of the words based on common usage of the time. It doesn't try to give meaning or idiom to the words as used in the bible but just their usage when the bible was 'written'. Of course written is never truly accurate since the original text had already gone though a lot of oral variation before ever being actually written down.

[Guest]

I could be wrong, but I have always thought that if the Guy who created the Universe and everything that is in it would be all powerful. That would probably mean that whatever He wanted preserved in His Book, He would make sure that it was preserved. I mean, He IS GOD!

[Guest]

Yes, I do think you are wrong.

[Guest]

Strong's exhaustive concordance is a cross-reference attempting to more clearly indicate the meanings of the words based on common usage of the time. It doesn't try to give meaning or idiom to the words as used in the bible but just their usage when the bible was 'written'. Of course written is never truly accurate since the original text had already gone though a lot of oral variation before ever being actually written down.

I would be nice to give Wikipedia some credit for all the words you took from them with no accreditation.

[Guest]

Katz, I have sent you a PM. This subject is neither Political nor should it be discussed in one-liners. JMHO

[Guest]

I could be wrong, but I have always thought that if the Guy who created the Universe and everything that is in it would be all powerful. That would probably mean that whatever He wanted preserved in His Book, He would make sure that it was preserved. I mean, He IS GOD!

you are right....and the Jews wrote it down for him, so I guess they got it right....how come christians decided to change his words ?

[Guest]

I would be nice to give Wikipedia some credit for all the words you took from them with no accreditation.

actually they quoted the original source I used, since I didn't use wiki.